The Government Mule Episode 5 - The Keeper Project

A conversation about service, sacrifice, resilience, and the power of community.

In this episode of The Government Mule Podcast, Michael Willis sits down with the team behind The Keeper and the Keeper Project, including George Eshleman, whose extraordinary real-life journey inspired the film. Following the loss of his best friend, George embarked on a 2,000-mile trek that became a powerful story of survival, purpose, and hope. 

The discussion explores veteran mental health, PTSD, suicide prevention, and how communities can support those who have served. 

Through personal stories and honest conversations, this episode highlights the challenges many veterans face after service and the mission of the Keeper Project to build community, foster understanding, and help save lives.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:01

You're listening to the Government Mule Podcast, a production of the Tulsa County Clerk's Office in Oklahoma. Welcome back to another episode of the Government Mule Podcast. I'm Michael Willis, your Tulsa County Clerk, and today we have a unique set of guests that I'm going to introduce to you here. And the premise here is that we have this group of guys who've been working on a project called the Keeper and the Keeper Project. Turn this thing into a film that actually was screened last night at the Circle Cinema here in Tulsa. And so I'm going to introduce you to these guys and let them tell you kind of the background of what's going on with the Keeper and the project and the film and what the next steps might be. And so we'll get rolling. We'll start off with our friend Dan Knight, who is the one who reached out to us about the potential of coming on our podcast. And we're super glad to have you. And give us a snapshot of background of who you are and how we got this thing started.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

First of all, we were very grateful that you taking the time to help us here. And uh the way this came about in Tulsa is uh my brother Mike lives here, and he and I watched The Keeper uh with my family. Uh we all got together on Thanksgiving, and uh I'd seen the movie, of course, and um but they hadn't. And after we watched that, Mike was asking, you know, what what can we do? What can we actually do? So we uh noodled on it a bit and we came up with this idea that we'll create this uh organization called the Keeper Project. And the Keeper Project is is about the movie, but it's more about building community and helping people, in particular veterans and their families, on how to cope with PTSD. And we're our goal, one of our goals is to raise awareness for the massive number of suicides that uh for veterans and people in general. And so that's the the premise. Um Michael uh introduced us to Kendra Guthrie over at the Humble Warrior here in Tulsa. She picked up the ball, and this whole thing just magically uh came together in a wonderful way. So that's uh that's a start. You'll learn much more as we we have more conversation here.

SPEAKER_04 2:31

Sure. Well, let's turn to Angus next. We've got uh Angus Benfield here with us, and you're from California, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Yes, but originally not from California. Okay. So my accent, yeah, um, I'm originally from Australia. Um, but I've moved uh to the US about nine years ago, and yeah, so now we live in California, LA, obviously for the film side of things, because that's my background. I'm an actor and a producer and a director. And yeah, so uh yeah, we migrated to this country with my family, and uh we love living in the US, and it's always been a dream to live here. And um, yeah, and so part of being here, of course, is to make films, and I um found this amazing script uh that was presented to me, and I was confused by why no one had made it because it's such an important story, and I thought, well, that's what I'm gonna do. We're gonna make this film. So next thing you know, we're all connected and met George and Todd, and then Dan came on board, and we all uh, you know, we just a lot of hard work pushing a rock up a hill kind of thing, and uh yeah, we we we made the film. So uh that's my background is pretty much that's all I do is make movies and try to tell good stories. Cool.

SPEAKER_04 3:43

Welcome to Tulsa. We're super glad to have you here. George, you're kind of the star of our show here. Quiet so far, but George Eshelman. And George is from Calhoun, Georgia. Um, and you're kind of the um the meat and potatoes of this thing, as far as I've been able to tell from everything that I've read. Um give us uh tell us a little bit about you and kind of your background and how you got involved with this.

SPEAKER_06 4:09

Um yeah, from Calhoun, Georgia. Um I got involved with this. My best friend he called me. Or my his wife did, obviously. Uh he had shot himself or killed himself. Um that's where we started all this. Um after my hike. During my hike, I wrote a journal. And out of that journal, the story was created. My wife wanted me to write a book, so I tried to write the book. And uh quasi screenplayed and all I was doing. So I guess I could run in a wrench, and I was introduced to Todd, uh the screenwriter and pretty much brought it all together, and then I guess was introduced, and then there was something that they call the drill provided, and it did on this because this film was made quickly. And in retrospect, it pretty much flew by because most films take a long time for pre-production and all the other stuff. But just when you went smooth, I even asked, I said, does this go this smooth all the time? I'm like, nope. Um so I think the story carried itself and there was a reason that it all went smooth, and they had a great message, an important message. Um the talent you know they brought to the table is is what made me unbart it alive, otherwise it'd still just be a piece of paper in my dresser door.

SPEAKER_04 5:28

So before we get too far into the film and the project, I'm fascinated to know um the background of the hike. So maybe give us a little bit of the story that led you to to this journey and this trek.

SPEAKER_06 5:44

Yeah. Um my best friend, Shannon, we were knew each other since nine years old. Um and moved away, but we stayed in contact, joined the military, we joined together. Same basic AID. We stayed in Port Silly Home. Um and we were just lifelong out of the family. I was on my way to work. At that point I was just trying to try around when I was taking on the top. During that period I told me it wasn't name and on top of the mountain. And during that five months, I was trying to get my turn to do it. Well, family members started strangers names. My wife might not be sure. And on the surface it was like, Yeah, sure. Carrying all these guys on the trail and uh later and carrying the rest of the ease.

SPEAKER_04 7:23

So your original plan was to take your friend's name label, make the hike, end it on the mountain or on the trail. And arguably, maybe as you got to 363 of these name tapes, maybe that contributed to saving your life.

SPEAKER_06 7:49

Oh, yeah, by all means. I mean, if if if they hadn't sent this to me, I'll have done it. Um and I don't want to make it sound you know too bad, it wouldn't, but these didn't these are my like my three bike I've had for ten years at the moment that I was starting my my trail before the rainbow stream shelter. These were just like this is something that you know they were in the back of my mind, but they weren't what they are now. They became what they are now behind that tree. That's when they became my family, you know. So yeah. Without these, I wouldn't be here right now.

SPEAKER_04 8:30

And well, obviously everybody in this room is thankful you are. Um we're also thankful, and I'm certainly thankful for your service. Um a lot of people don't know, um, but in Oklahoma and in lots of states, county clerks have um the ability and the duty to um we we try to support veterans as much as we can in my office. Um the the primary and principal way we do that is we historically will record and store military discharge papers, um, and when people need those, we provide them back to the families and whatever. Um we've taken that in our office and kind of sprouted that out, and we have um a few other resources and we try to partner with lots of organizations like the Coffee Bunker and the Humble Warriors and the VFW and the American Legion. So anyway, I just go on record to say how much I appreciate your service and um not only your four years of service in the Army, but the service you provided to all 363 of these uh men and women and their families, and um I'm grateful that you know they they were part of the process of bringing you kind of full circle back around and keeping you with us because we we need you here.

SPEAKER_06 9:44

In return, without people like you all in the community and stuff that are showing interest in it, it'd be the flavor of the month, like it has been before. So being that you're willing to you know spread the word that that's you know very, very important.

SPEAKER_04 9:58

Of course, of course. Well, let's get into the the film a little bit and the project. So um Dan, I mean maybe you'd be the best one to kind of start with this. Talk about um maybe talk about how the film translated into uh the project.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Yeah, okay, that's uh so uh Angus mentioned and how we all sort of came together. Uh Todd, the screenwriter's girlfriend, contacted me, shot me an email. We'd known each other for 20-some years, had acted together way back in the 2000s. Hadn't heard from a while. She said, Yeah, my boyfriend's helping writing the script, and we're trying to raise some awareness, maybe uh some funding, uh, you know, whatever. Here's the script, read it, and if you want to forward her long or whatever. So I read it, and uh it became immediately apparent to me that yeah, uh, I need to help get this made. Uh and called George. I can't remember if I called George first or Angus first. Maybe I just called them out of the blue, they didn't know me, and then we started to get together and hooked up. And Angus and I, in terms of the filmmaking side, uh, we understood the challenges because the SAG After Union was gonna go on strike, and there and we knew if that happened, it was gonna delay us. This was maybe August, maybe July, uh, late in July of that year, and we decided, well, let's get this thing made so we can get it released by Memorial Day next year, which is a pretty aggressive schedule. Especially when you're gonna film over five or six states, and a lot of your people are gonna have to fly in, a lot of logistics and things like that. So Angus and I, and Simone, the producer, we we sort of handled all of that and got the casting and everything put together. Came together beautifully. Uh uh I'm one of those people who don't believe in coincidences, and as George said earlier, uh it was intended to be. And so we all felt that challenges, sure. So we got the thing kicked off and we finally landed on shoot dates. And um we the the week before we were uh planning to come out to location, we were gonna start in Maine, and uh our assistant director broke his leg. So we had to find uh another assistant director very quickly, which we did. We all got our travel plans. Uh I was one of the first ones with boots on the ground, and there'd been a tropical storm slash hurricane in the northeast. We were right on the tail end of that. So it was um it was one of those things where you you get those challenges and you just you just battle through them and you say, okay, so what? Yeah, it's gonna be rainy. It's gonna be so we got we got kicked off. And if you ever see the film, or for the people who have seen the film, our very first scenes, the the opening scenes of the film, what's what's fascinating as a filmmaker and a storyteller is none of not many of those people, if any, had ever met each other before, ever in their life. Oh wow. And they came together that quickly. Now, my theory is it's because of the story. Now, a little bit of background and I'll pass this along. When we when we talked with George as we had our initial meeting, we we all agreed that one of our guiding values was we are gonna honor these people, those people that are on those names there, but also their families. And we're gonna represent those veterans to the best of our ability, and we never lost sight of that. So when we were casting, we made that clear to the actors, all of the crew. Many of the crew, in fact, I I want to say the majority of the crew were veterans.

SPEAKER_05 13:56

Oh, great.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

And uh a lot of sweat equity, they pitched in, it was a family affair, and um that's how we got the thing rolling. Uh the first week in in Maine, I felt my my job, my my first big job was to get things lined out. Uh, and we did, and so that uh then I was then I needed to to withdraw from the location. But from what I understand, we we sort of had our process, and as they went state by state by state, uh we had a lot of things already ironed out. So the that's how the story that George mentioned that he wrote and then he got with the screenwriter and with Angus coalesced into, you know what, we got something here. And uh we just started down the road and started filming, and with Angus's brilliance and the crew's brilliance, there's always obstacles, especially when you're out in the middle of nowhere. Sure. Yeah. Uh and it just it just came together. And here we are. The keeper project then was an evolution of this when when my brother Mike, uh my sister in Montana, we all went up there for Thanksgiving last year, or a bunch of us. And none of my family had seen the keeper. So I forced them down into the basement. And um we watched it, and two of my nephews were veterans that were there. Uh, and I believe everybody was pretty affected by it. After we watched it, uh, Mike, my brother, his wife, my sister, her husband, myself, we we had a conversation, and it came up that so what can we do? We can talk about it, we can do this, we can do that. And that that upped my level of frustration because I had the same question, and I wasn't really doing as much as I thought I could do. So we noodled on it. Mike and I got together the week after, and we just started to to to brainstorm and came up with this concept of, you know what? Let's create this thing, and we'll just call it the Keeper Project. It is about the film, but it's primarily about community and how do we get this word out to communities and and get get some action around these words. And so that's that's coalesced last night in a beautiful way, and now our plan is we'll replicate that in different cities across the U.S.

SPEAKER_04 16:24

That's cool. I'm I wish I could have been there last night. Um Well, Angus, when when did the film when was it released?

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Um Yeah, so we did an initial release on Memorial Day in 2024, I think it was. I'm trying to remember. It's a bit of a because we literally, yeah, as as Dan was saying, I mean, the goal was shoot it, cut it, release it, and that it's kind of a bit of a blur because I was like on a rocket ship trying to get it done. Um so we did uh a premiere in LA and which w had a bit of a Q ⁇ A, which is similar, sort of template that we're replicating now, and then we did a a bit of a theatrical release and um and then we have a streaming release following. But the problem is is that when you're uh a small film like ours and we don't have that hundred million dollar budget and the other hundred million in marketing, um it is a bit of a David versus 20,000 Goliath. So so we you get the film out there and we got it into like maybe 30 cinemas and stuff like that. And and it was just hard to get people to no one knows what it is in the there's no big movie stars edit or anything like that. So it's it is a slow process. So it came and it went, and and and when it was on streaming, it was great to see that we were getting responses from a lot of veterans who even from Vietnam veterans and stuff have watched the film and it really affected the you know, grown men in their 70s saying they haven't cried for so long. But we know that this had uh pot uh this has uh potential to make change and do something, like you know, what the purpose is there for. So um but it's hard because it's like and then it kind of came and went, and then we're like, oh now what do we do? And so um that was the thing I was sort of was always kept feeling uh there has to be more to this film. And my wife is the same thing. She would we always believed in it, and so yeah, that's why it was great when you know you guys reached Dan and Mike reached out and said, We need to, you know, we need to do something because I always felt like this is gonna be something that will continue to grow and for years to come and even beyond our our lives.

SPEAKER_04 18:34

So yeah, so um so where can we view it now for the all the all the listeners and watchers or what?

SPEAKER_02 18:40

It's coming to a keeper project. In the town of the town of you. Um yeah, so yeah, of course, I it is available on streaming. Um most of the platforms have it. Um Amazon Prime, YouTube has it. Um there are a few other films called the Keeper, so just if it if Oracle pops up or a stocker box up, change their name. There's only one. There's only one. The The Keeper. So the keeper. And there is um, yeah, so you you'll see you'll see it. But um, yeah, but definitely Amazon Prime, YouTube as well, and most there are other few other little platforms out there, and and um we also have a website as well, the uh keepermovie dot info, I think, and that's also got information about it. But um, yeah, it's out there. And I really do like the idea that it is available 24 hours a day, seven days a week. So, you know, uh anyone can watch it, a veteran can watch it at three in the morning if they're struggling or something, you know, it's it's there. And then um, but what it misses out on is that community aspect, and that's what we really want to use this for, this film for is that engagement and getting people to sit because the world's very un-community, you know, it's like everyone's like in their homes watching everything online.

SPEAKER_04 19:49

So we want to get people out. So we but the the one of the messages here is we do want start by watching the film. I'm gonna do that soon. Um and then be on the lookout for you know, an installation of the keeper project coming to communities around around the country, really. We were talking about that before we started here, um, that there's a lot of discussion going on about opportunities you all will have nationwide, really, to um to kind of promote this and and create this community venue for people to um gather around and and and dig into some of the the things that need to be talked about and the resources around um some of the elements of the film. So um, you know, continuing on with I mean how you got involved with this, Angus, um what I mean, this is sort of a general question. We can all say, you know, well, how'd you get involved? What what made you interested in this? Of course everyone's interested or should be interested in helping take care of and uh service our veterans, but what particularly got you um really hooked into this?

SPEAKER_02 20:59

Yeah, I mean it was I think it was a story I could relate to, even though I'm not a veteran, but um I've met so many veterans since I've been in the US Um and I really get on really well with them and I really love them as as friends and and work colleagues. But I think personally, uh, you know, I somebody who's gone through the same sort of mental health issues and struggle with the same sort of things like depression and anxiety and all that sort of stuff. It was just something that I felt it was, you know, I just I know this character, even though I haven't lived George's life. I haven't gone through what he went through, but I I know enough of that character. And so you know, someone asked last night how did I play this character and all this, and it's just been my life as well. You know, it's like you kind of prepare for something for 20 years of going through stuff, and and and yeah, as soon as I read it, I just realized that that's something that's yeah, there's a little bit of mean in this character, and and that's why I really wanted to play it. And it's that release thing too. We're talking about telling jokes and releasing that pressure. And that's why as an actor or in anyone in any form of art, you you do that art to release that emotional stuff, that's stuff that's you know deep down inside, and that's why you and then you present that to the world and and that's your art really. And that's what is out there to connect with people.

SPEAKER_04 22:20

So was making this thing more mentally and emotionally challenging or physically challenging?

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Yeah, it was a bit of both. So it was like, I mean, yeah, like we had a six months of just trying to l logistics and trying to figure it out. And then yeah, it was there was a lot of physic I mean, but the fit it's actually quite good to be physically exhausted. That's why uh you know, uh we had the pack, I had the name tapes, we were on the location. Again, it was just very it wasn't much acting needed because it was all we were all George's there. So that physical weight and that physical demand um kind of burns off a lot of that anxieties and crap that we have in our heads. And then um, but yeah, there was definitely, you know, you do feel there is emotional strain, um, and it does hit you every now and then and stuff. And um and some roles take more out of you, and this one was was like that. Um and it still affects me to this day, you know. So I find it hard watching the film again, like George does as well. Like we sort of can't sit and watch it a hundred times because it's to triggers things as well.

SPEAKER_04 23:33

So yeah, it takes a lot out of you, but I mean, how are you all gonna do that as we get this project rolling? I mean, you started this yesterday in Ulta, but yeah, you can be able to keep up with the demands of watching that film every once a week.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

So so to count my own brilliance. Yeah. Please, Dan. So what I did with them last night was while the film was showing, I gave them some rooms. Oh. And I just said, keep this lobby clean. What we what we all do, those of us that uh have seen it and lived it, uh uh it it affects me ever uh different every time, and certain scenes, just as we were saying here. So for these showings, these screenings, we do have to f we we do have to find a coping mechanism. So my coping, uh I just go in and out, you know, go in and out and check. Or if it's really affecting someone, you just you know what the film is and you just wait outside and then when it's released, yeah. So that's I I I'm glad you brought it up, and I know we're we were having a little fun with that. But we're following our own advice here in terms of watching each other's backs and making sure and checking in and you know, just simple things like, hey, you doing okay, and and we got to know each other pretty well during the filming, and so you you get to read people, and so we just we just practice the a lot of the same uh and and sometimes it's humor, you know, when we so there's a that to answer your question in a different way. That's just become an organic part of it. Everybody's finding their own way to cope or to honor or to whatever the whatever happens to be happening in that moment. And last night I was doing a lot of observation and and that's that I was really pleased. Because not only us, but the people watching the film. There were a lot of veterans watching the film. I was gonna ask, I assumed you had a lot of and we have had situations where someone will come to us and thank you know, thanks, and it was wonderful, but they also said, yeah, I was it was a little triggered by it. So we're we're we're 100% aware of that at all times. And with with people who come to to support, but also with ourselves. Because you never know, each day is different. So I give them brooms and I give them assignments, and then you know, last night I wanted them to wash the car, but then it rained like you know, that probably came a deluge rather than you all were getting going last night. But yeah, I don't know if that answered your question.

SPEAKER_04 26:17

No, for sure. For sure. Well, George, let's go back to you for a minute. Um, you know, when what year was it that you actually did the your hike?

SPEAKER_06 26:28

Uh end of 2015 and 2016, 2017.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 26:32

So I've done it three times two straight through hikes in the uh the last one was a section eight, where you do half the trail and then come back a couple months later to do the other half.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 26:44

I've also walked home going like a Maine 15 Georgia down the road.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

Wait, from Maine.

SPEAKER_06 26:53

Maine to Georgia. Yes, to Georgia. New York, Boston, Connecticut. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:59

That's quite a uh quite an adventure.

SPEAKER_06 27:02

It took 54 days to walk the streets, but it takes six months to walk the trail.

SPEAKER_03 27:07

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 27:08

You knew between a little less than five months to six sometimes. Yeah, down the highways and stuff that it's straight or so ups and downs. It is the hardest to walk in the world. The elevation changes over 500,000 up to 400,000 pounds. It's the hardest trail, it's brutal. It tears your body up. But every day you're accomplished. Allows them to become a family. There's a lot of veterans out there, but become at least a little again. And it'll accomplish this quiet out if you don't have all that noise around the white noise that goes on every now. Sure. Um how did you uh follow into that so well? And I think when people see the movie, they're gonna they're gonna watch not just the talent actor, but in real life, where Angus went from a novice hiker to a hiker experience like I was at the end of the movie. What they see during the that period is actual transformation, but that's not actually he's got the swagger walk, you know, the hike walk and looks like a a hike through hike. And the names carry them all around. I think he's the only person that's ever had his way from me. And I think they out of stoked him in some way. Uh but he he became me, and I I said it all sincerity. That it was 90% acting, and it was, you know, the other 90% was authentic. I know they don't add up on that, but I can't count. Um it was it was as much as one as the other. But yeah, what they see on the film is actual real transformation. Yeah. Um so it's it's uh it's a real story, it's real people, it's real lives.

SPEAKER_04 29:34

Um How'd the thing make you feel when you first saw it on uh on the screen?

SPEAKER_06 29:39

Um I'll watch it by myself at home before you. And even though it was there, uh actually watching it in real you know, real time on the setting, uh, there were a lot of times I had to leave because what they're doing is what I did, and we just stand out and busy out of body experience and watch you know, behind the tree experience. I was stupid. That that you know that was too much at a lead there and some other things, but um yeah, when I saw it, I was I was relieved. I was like, okay, this is over. You know, this is this is done. Let's let's get this thing in. I was very optimistic, but it it's hard for a movie like this to gain ground quickly and also just go viral and go all over because it's such a hard topic to talk about. And how do you break down that wall even start? And that's what we're trying to do now. And we'll succeed, we'll do it. But yeah, that's the hardest part to break down that wall. So people will come out of their shelves and there's not really one solution with the PTSD. There's not only this and only that work. It's a gamut stuff. It's like a comic culture, so we have creation. The only thing that a veteran can do is just keep trying. You know, you got one person in your life, everybody has one person. Make them a promise, you know, don't make them wake up and go, why? That's a that's a that's a really crappy word to say, why. Right. You know, so that's how you must feel.

SPEAKER_04 31:12

Yeah, we were talking before we started. Yeah, well, I I'm glad you you mentioned all those things because it kind of um brings us into a spot of you know, talking about um again, applying the movie to the project, right? So um the storytelling and you know, um and and how the film matters when we're having difficult conversations about a difficult topic. But you know, you all have and and you are marrying the communities and the communities you're gonna go and and talk to about this, to the film and to this effort. Um how do you all see that as, you know, what kind of role does that play in helping to heal, um, treat, provide a resource out to our veterans that need it? I mean, I I see veterans here in Tulsa, maybe not every day, but almost every day, who are having, you know, uh a difficulty in their life, whether it's related to a job, mental health, addiction, um, some of those sorts of things. So maybe maybe talk about how your application of this in the communities will will play a role in assisting our our folks.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

We had some really wonderful people in the audience last night when we were doing the Q ⁇ A, some of these questions came up. And one of the the themes that came through that is, and I think George can sub will substantiate this, is veterans talk to veterans. And even when they're in the field, you know, during the service, uh they go out and they do something, a mission, and they know what they've done, uh, you know, they've done their job, and then when they get back, a base or whatever, there's some camaraderie and some joking and everything, and they don't necessarily need to talk about what just happened out there. And that's the the psychologist in me what I read that as is, well, that's a that's a coping mechanism. We all sort of do that. And it's not a bad coping mechanism. But when they get back stateside and they no longer have a specific mission, that's I think a big factor in terms of something's gonna fill that vacuum. And and uh I I'll paraphrase you, George, if you don't mind, and you correct me if I'm wrong. But very uncomfortable just talking to an average person, even a well-meaning person, and this is something we learned last night from some really wonderful veterans in particular. Of so the way I boiled it down in my mind, if we in the community, uh less talk, more action. And so Coffee Bunker, Humble Wars Project, all of these wonderful organizations are just one stepping stone. And to help people who need help feel a little a little more comfortable, a teeny bit more comfortable, maybe just beginning to reach out. And I believe, in my experience anyway, that's the hardest part of with whether you're a veteran or or anything, is that first step of no, and and many of us, uh I'm generalizing, but if you happen to be of a certain age and you have to be of a certain gender, say a male of a certain age, we're brought up, you know, you were brought up. I can I can almost guarantee. You just bite your tongue, you just cowboy up. You just don't, you know, you don't. So there's that aspect of it. And then you overlay these things that that veterans go through with that. So it's it's and and uh uh a a lady veteran last night brought this home really well. And Georgia just said it a little while ago. It it's not a one-size-fits-all. There's levels of complexity here, and there's no there's no magic bullet, there's no, you can't wave, so it's almost a case by case. But what seems to be common is if we can get together and and let's just use veterans, if veterans can get together in certain venues and feel comfortable, initially with each other, and then slowly begin to broaden that circle for people who truly want to help. I think that's the avenue. So patience and persistence and no judgment has to be kept out of that equation. And that's part of partly what we're doing here. We keep these, we keep this uh value of honoring the veterans themselves and their families. We never ever want to get sideways of any of that. We never judge, we never uh overstep our our our our role, we we do not over-promise and underdeliver. So all of these things are the mechanisms when we do these community events. So we're doing two things there, in my opinion. We are helping train the community about here's some ideas and here's some best practices and here's some things that have worked. So if you have people in your community or in your family that you might want to think about going this direction. And parallel to that, we are hopefully the other part of this prong, double pronged fork is uh helping veterans understand. You know, it's okay. It's okay. It's okay to be pissed off, it's okay to be frustrated, it's okay to feel isolated, totally normal from that point of view. However, maybe on those certain days when you're really getting overwhelmed, just so you know, here's a place you can reach out to. And so I don't know any other way to do it. And and I and that's basic psychology with any issue from my experience. So our mission here is to continue this outreach, find these opportunities. And my my personal metric is if if we reach one, one, we've done our job. And so I've broadened that to we're doing we're gonna we're doing this one at a time. And what George said about the one size doesn't fit all is so important. Can't generalize, can't it doesn't work to generalize or or or you know, stereotype or whatever. So that's that's the a lot of the blood, sweat, and tears we the keeper project we've been doing. And again, Tulsa has been so gracious as our pilot here. And I can't speak for anyone else here, but but I thought last night was a massive success in the feedback we've gotten and the continuing contact we're gonna have. Uh, and the number of people who came up to us and said, How can we help? What can we do? And what we're what we'll measure is what George said, because we want to uh this flavor of the month. Oh, everybody get we what whatever the initiative is, right? We all get all fired up and everything, and then it just trails off. We're trying to create something that's sustainable and it just keeps keeps that energy going.

SPEAKER_04 38:38

So um as we talk about the the sort of the growth of the the project side of this, um we were talking about some other locations that you're looking at. Um will you all continue to do additional things maybe in Tulsa again or as a part of this? Or is it really we're gonna try to um to get multiple um places in the country up and running and and doing some of these screenings and gatherings?

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Yes. All the above. Yes. No, what what what what my my vision was when we kicked this off and and Tulsa was gracious enough due to my brother Michael doing so much of the work here, the the legwork down here, uh, is uh I'm proposing to our team that Tulsa will be an at a minimum will be an annual event. So that it'll be just like this time of year, and we'll just and we'll have the infrastructure in place. Then at the same time, to the broaden emission, we use what we learned here, we we uh get the best practices and the lesson learned out of here, and then we begin to replicate it in different places. So I think I can speak with uh with some assurance here, uh, because I heard it last night. One of our next targets is Bartlesville, not too far from because some people know some people and this and that. One of our targets is out in California because Angus has some has some contacts out there, and our screenwriters out there, and a few other people on the film are out there. And of course, there's a huge naval base in San Diego, etc. etc. Another target is Billings, Montana, believe it or not, because my best friend, uh disabled vet, who has been a veterans case manager for over 30 years, uh he he has a presence there. And he can't wait till we can can can begin to to uh investigate what options are there. So we're replicating the process, and then there's from from Angus's my point of view, we we have a little more experience working with theaters, movie theaters, and so not every not every town has the blessing that Tulsa does that has a nonprofit theater that is gracious enough. So Angus and I will handle, well, okay, so what we'll figure out a way to negotiate with those theaters. But that's that's and the only thing we're cautioning ourselves about is because we're all doers, the thing we're cautioning ourselves is don't want to do too much too fast. We don't want to try to eat the elephant all in one bite. Of course. That would be and so we're in the prototype stage and somewhat looking at low-hanging fruit, and I believe what's going to happen is it's gonna become self-sustaining uh in not too long of a period. And people like you that give us a venue to spread the word so appreciated.

SPEAKER_04 41:36

Yeah, absolutely. Well, hopefully um folks will view this and and you all certainly can view it and send it out and get more information out. What haven't we covered? What what what else do we need to cover in the last few minutes? I think Mike just well, I just signaled.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

There's uh humble wire. Oh there's a walk happening on Sunday. That that okay and and uh we we'll get you the details that you can broadcast. Okay, yeah, we've got so that's that that's an extension of what we're doing here. Very good. And I I can't tell you the time uh I can't tell you the plays because I'm not familiar with Tulsa, but that's already set up and ready to go first.

SPEAKER_04 42:30

Okay, yeah, and uh so we probably won't have this up and ready to broadcast out. Um Chandler Park is one of our wonderful parks here in Tulsa, and you know, we've got uh Dan's brother Mike here in the studio with us, and he he sent us the bat signal on that. Um we're happy to have um another county facility in support of this. Chandler Park's a wonderful, wonderful place um to to do something like that. Well what else? Uh George, from your perspective, we uh anything else we need to cover we haven't really talked about yet?

SPEAKER_06 43:06

Um yeah, I mean to break it down in simple terms. Everyone, like I said before, has one person, and we can get through their heads, and everybody every voter knows it. We don't like to be babied or pacified or anything like that. And that's not what what I'm trying to do. Um but if if you think something stupid like I was or Shannon did or any of these people here, there's always somebody call it the depth, you know, call that one person because that they would rather hear your voice and they're not gonna try to try to psychoanalyze you. Um I've had veterans call me before. I've spent seven hours on the phone with them. You know, when you're talking like that. And we end up talking about just crazy things you did in the military. Well, I mean, if we were a civilian, we'd be educated, you know. Um and it it's they say, you know, sixty five percent. you know, uh service members have a drinking problem. Well yeah, the other percent are lying about it. So yeah, the stuff like that, y'all laugh about it, but to a veteran, that's that's family because we can we can connect with it. And so we really don't sit on the phone or get in a group or sit at a bar or whatever and just start trying in our beer. We again we separate ourselves. We get what we call uh defragging or decompress after emission. You know, because your anxiety and your uh energy is so high up that uh your adrenaline that you're exhausted when you come back. Impacts your nervous system. Yeah that that moment you have it just to go and if you don't grab onto something real quick to to keep your energy up well yeah you're gonna suffer. And I think when you go to the military you have that your energy goes up, your adrenaline goes up, but there's nothing to grab onto and there's a there's a cycle that's okay. For twenty four years I had it under control until I did and so yeah see someone you read that that text I showed August 30th I got a people text me. You know September 1st she shot herself what? So yeah if everyone has one person alas is that you reach out to that one person. You know, get on Facebook. My phone number's been on Facebook for ten, eleven years now. Yeah and there's no high you call me I'll pick up you know unless you're a bill collector. Don't call don't call it that's about all I got to really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_04 45:37

That's good. Uh Angus?

SPEAKER_02 45:39

Yeah I mean George covered pretty much everything I mean one of the things is yeah that distraction thing I think it's really important when when you're in those sort of those black holes of life and whether it's reaching out to somebody or just doing something like getting out moving um having a hobby something I mean it's such an important thing. Just coming from a civilian's point of view I f I know that that certainly helps me personally. And one thing with a film the reason why I make films like this is is that it's a it's a very innvasive process of you know you can just show someone the film and they can watch it in their own time. And sometimes people don't realize what they're going through until they watch the film and then they realize there is all this stuff in them that they haven't dealt with. And it can be a bit of a it is a triggering film in that point that it's releasing something and it's making awareness. It's kind of tapping you on the shoulder and saying hey look that you're not in a great place. There's a lot of pain here that you haven't dealt with and you're putting a mask on every day. And so sometimes it's a person may not want to you know talk to somebody about the heat in a couple of days so so it's a very kind of it's a very easy way. You can say hey look I feel like someone's struggling you can say and I'm not trying to promote the film but I'm just saying that in that way the film is a tool that you can just send it to somebody. It's free. They can watch it maybe that makes someone start to talk now we've we've seen this happen to a lot of people there's a a lot of veterans that they'll watch it and they'll go oh wait a minute because something's not right here. And that's when we start they start to go and seek help hopefully and producer Ken O'Brien Storm veteran during the film actually had opened up a lot about personal stuff and uh people started wanting therapy on the VA.

SPEAKER_06 47:29

Things that had just appeared to him he's like I I knew it was there but it was in a box. If I had the box it and open we're good once you open the box you cannot close and it's it's it's just a sticky time box. Yeah it kind of gets to Dan's point from before yeah to to address that what's in that box or it will kill you. No it will kill you there's no other no other way to put it you will get you you'll do something stupid. So don't be stupid you know people love you and I always thought people being selfish to make me want to stick around and and go through what I'm going through. But now I realize no you you're being selfish because this isn't your story. This is God's story to share with other people and you have no right to end your story because you affect so many other people in a positive way you know that they need you in their lives.

SPEAKER_00 48:23

And when you're not there you affect that person for the rest of their life and you don't have that right that's not your right to do uh to someone that really cares the most things because we all know that by the time we're adults and what George just described when we really break it down psychologically there's guilt there's shame there's all of these things that we we bury and I love that analogy I I've had it we've all had it at some point in our life where we go I'm not gonna open that box. It's easier and safer if I don't and we know that if we do but by the same token we know that we can't get through it until we face the abyss and all of that. One last quick story I have one of my talent agents is in North Carolina and when we were casting I called him and I said yeah we're doing this film if you got some people you want to submit we'll we'll look at their you know their self tapes and uh I'd known him for quite a while and I knew he was a veteran and um he said yeah that'd be great and he called me a little while after and he said how can I get involved and I uh wasn't quite sure what he meant and he it it already resonated with him so we found a way for him to be an extra he drove all the way from North Carolina I think to Tennessee cool and one of his actors came on board. Yeah wonderful so after the and he got to meet George and I I know George helped him immensely just on set the the the the little time they had and George offered you know his name's Mark Mark you you call me anytime so Mark confided with me after we filmed and he said um he says I I have severe PTSD I've had it for almost 30 years he saw some pretty not so nice things back in his career when he's in the service and uh so he reached out to me. So I was that outlet for him and I said okay and I said we're having a screening in LA and if you can make it and I think there's going to be a screening when one of the theatrical releases was closer to where he was and this and that and uh he didn't call didn't hear from him for a while. And um one night uh it's like a Thursday night at 830 my time which a Pacific time I get a call oh it's Mark and I'm going oh maybe he found a role for me the Eternal Optimus I answered and he he goes hey can I talk to you and I go yeah yeah what's going on he goes he goes I finally watched the keeper this is almost a year after it's been out he couldn't face it yeah and he said I told my wife I got it I'm gonna stream it and she's been so supportive of him but he he told her if I start to whatever leave it leave it I need to get through the whole thing and he did his point to me was he was so relieved after he watched it that he was able to do that and he was he was weeping I was weeping and that's the impact and the power when someone knows yeah they can reach out to someone and it's not easy it's not easy if we buried that stuff for so long. So just wanted to interject that as well that Kendall our our co-director and and one of the producers on the film confided in me on some of those days and we all encouraged him you know whatever you need to do buddy. So that's how life works in general and and then just pay attention uh watch each other's back uh sometimes there's signals and find a way to get something on the table one way or the other because if you don't then it usually doesn't turn out the way we want it to so yeah thank you for letting me share that. Yeah of course well um we're gonna kind of start to wrap up here but I would just say to to all of our viewers and listeners um you know every one of us knows a veteran um and at the same time I think uh this has been a good forum to to remind ourselves and everybody else that we don't know what everyone's going through uh whether they're a veteran or not or whatever but certainly if you if you know a veteran um you have a friend you have family you have friends of family those sorts of things um one thing you can do is reach out just to check on them right um we encourage um everyone to to view the film and get plugged into the keeper project uh any way they can does the keeper project have a like a website or um social media it it we we don't we we I'm gonna I'm gonna do a shameless plug right now you asked some questions earlier one of our goals is to continue to raise funds so that we can build more resources so I'm just gonna say it flat out yeah but angus has uh has a has a site uh the keepermovie dot info I think yeah dot info yeah and that's a good starting place so and it's that's also on Instagram Facebook also it and it has links to other other resources so but at at some point in the near future we will have the keeperproject dot org probably or keeperproject.org we've got the domain uh I've I've paid for the initial website we just need to sit down and put it together so for now though what uh Instagram the keeper movie um I'm not sure if we're on Facebook or on Facebook the usual social outlets and then the keepermovie dot info info the keepermovie.info go check out the film get online streaming services check out the film get plugged into this check on your veteran friends and family um and if you know a veteran you know someone who could possibly be in need or even if you don't think they're in need it sure doesn't hurt to reach out to them right um so it's been an honor having you all here today uh this has been uh a unique um the government mule podcast I think today and and I'm I'm really grateful to meet you guys and super grateful for the work you've done in supporting our veterans both across the country and um starting your deal out here in Tulsa it means a lot to us at Tulsa County and we'll be glad to have folks hiking um in honor of this at Chandler Park this weekend.

SPEAKER_04 55:19

So I think that wraps it up. You've been watching the Government Meal podcast I'm Michael Willis the Tulsa County Clerk we've been here with the the the leaders and drivers of the keeper the film and the keeper project and so I want to thank uh thank you again george and Angus and Dan this has really been a pleasure and we thank you so much of course very much yeah let's do it again yeah thanks everyone