Ep. 13 Drugs, Herbs, and Society

Wow! This is a big one guys. Lucky #13. I go raw, wild, and candid about stories from my past. This is huge and honestly feels amazing to tell parts of these stories. I know it will change your perception of me but I'm fully vulnerable here and putting it out there because I have to be myself and free to express these stories. It's part of my journey and may help someone else come to terms with what they are going through or have been stuck and are now looking for deeper answers.

I am telling this tale to be honest about my experiences and begin working within the realms of integration for life experiences such as people exploring altered states of consciousness, or having mystical experiences, going through loss, grief, life transitions, or working on finding themselves again. 

This is just the beginning and it starts with the truth and being open to sharing this side of me.

I also want to note... I've never done Meth. I may have forgot to mention that one but it's a major problem in Northwest Ohio and a terrible choice. Please do not use meth. Not even once.

***I do not recommend, source, or facilitate sessions for altered states or encourage drug use. This is unlawful, unethical, and not what I want to be doing with my practice. Drugs are dangerous and should not be used unless in a facility designed to do them under medical supervision.

For more information on my practice or how to work with me 1:1 - Visit FieldsMindBody.com.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello. Are you checking in with your rewards app today? And if you guys get that joke, please leave me a comment. This is for local people only. Anyway, hi, welcome to the show. It's your host, uh, the holistic wizard, Joel Fields of Wizard of Wonder Podcast. Thank you guys for tuning in. Like for Wizzles. Anyone who listens to this at any moment in time, thank you so very much. It means a lot to me. Like I said, this is a creative outlet. I can just let things flow, right? So, as promised in the last episode, I believe that we're gonna label this one drugs, herbs, and society. Are you ready, Toaster Strudels? Are you snugly, cozy, and ready for me to lay it down for you? Okay, this is gonna be a heated topic. It's gonna be a weird one. And I'm kind of just gonna spill the guts on it, you know. If it happens, it happens. If it, you know, this is a part of me. It's a part of my story, right? And I want to get out the truth, right? And since I've been doing Cortina method, right, I spoke maybe a little bit about that. Uh it's it's Cortina method is very interesting, and uh I'll I'll be speaking more on that later. This isn't about that, right? This is about me sharing my my story, right? And so I am a mischievous little wizard, right? And during my younger years, so uh okay, I realize I dart all over the place. It's ADHD, and it's it's Friday. I'm I'm kind of recording this early. It's you know, I I released an episode this morning, now I'm really recording another one. Okay. So whatever. We're on top of it. I don't really have any clients today, so I'm working on other admin stuff, and I was sitting around and I was thinking, it's like, you know, I I I could just record an episode. I'm just chilling here and I feel kind of inspired to talk a little bit. I ran into a really good friend this morning, a really old good friend of mine this morning. Actually, we met in Catholic school together. We were forced to ride the bus together, and we we we really didn't get along when we first met. Shout out to you, Jordan. It was really good seeing you today and chatting for a moment. But when I ran into him, he told me that he he liked my show. He he like listened to it. He was like, Oh, it's kind of funny. You know, I really liked the episode 11 where you talked about Denver and he was chatting with me about it. But it really made me feel good that somebody's listening, right? Anybody's listening, because you know, I could just be recording this and nobody listens, right? But the the the few people who do, thank you for real from the bottom of my heart. So I was sitting around feeling inspired today, and and I just kind of like recapped a little bit of that that Denver episode, and I was like, what an auto did I talk about? And I was listening to some different things. Well, towards the end, I was talking about you know, needing to leave Denver because of other reasons, right? So there was there's a possibility of my grandpa not being well, whatever, and it turns out he was fine. When I got back home, he was like, Oh yeah, I'm gonna put you to work, you know, and you know, been doing grandpa type things, right? And but anyway, I so I don't know, let's let's go back even further. I'll we'll get there. But when I was a I I do something called oh my gosh, ADHD is firing like crazy, guys. So going way back, Cortina method, right? Since I've been doing Cortina method, it's easier to talk about things and it's easier to just open up and express things because subconsciously all the crap that I had maybe been worried about, like any any kind of pressure has just been gone, like released, like a valve has just been released. And it feels good. So I feel like I can hold more space and I can like be more real with you guys without being like, uh, you know, what are they gonna think of me? You know, anyway, that stuff's kind of gone. That imposter syndrome in my head, like noise, you know, that sometimes we have where we're like, you suck, you suck, you suck, you suck. It's gone, right? And June is men's mental health month and PTSD awareness month as well. So it's kind of a good time to talk about mental health stuff and what we're about to talk about, right? Which is drugs, herbs, and society. Let's get back at it. Okay. So now that it's easier to talk about this kind of stuff, I kind of want to open up about it, right? Because it is a part of my life and and I want to be real, right? And I want to be really real with people because maybe you're like, oh gosh, maybe, maybe that's a part of your story. You know what I mean? Maybe drugs, herbs, and society is a part of your story. And maybe, maybe you're like, man, how am I how am I ever gonna like accomplish anything because of of the things that I've been through or or that lifestyle or whatever? Okay, so before I get carried away and like take you down some weird dark depressing road, right? It's actually not a dark, depressing road for me. Like, like there's things along the way that are dark and are depressing and very scary and hard, right? Things that I've I've come across or people and and situations and things, you know, drug services society for full disclaimer right now, okay? I don't condone anything. This is for educational purposes. You know, if if you are seeking any kind of like help for anything, please seek out like a mental health provider, practitioner, or somebody who's licensed, very well credentialed for any kind of counseling needs, anything like that. Like it is a very serious problem. And I know I what I'm about to tell you might be, you know, more narrative and more fun, but that's you know, some sometimes it be like that, right? Sometimes it be like that, you know. And I've I've been in some very terrible situations and I've experienced you know friends passing and things, and I know the the hard extent of it, right? I I know I have you know, I'll I'll share some stories, but so it yeah. But if you are going through anything like that, know that there is hope, know that people do care, and know that you know your life can be totally different if you change things up, right? If if you make some some changes. Okay. Now that we've gotten all those disclaimers out of the way, and like like I said, I don't condone anything that I'm gonna be talking about, and I don't I don't you know recommend it to anybody, but if you do something like that, please go where it's seen as a sacred indigenous medicine, or you know, you have professional people around who can help and guide you and navigate you, or seek out like a psychedelic integration coach. Yeah, we'll talk about that. So, okay, let's get into it. Let's get into it. We are six minutes in, so yeah, we've all built this up. Now, now we get into it. So I get into something called human design. And in human design, I've been doing some readings lately, and uh my human design reader, big shout out to Kate. Thank you so much, Kate. Love your wisdom. She was telling me, she's like, Yeah, when you were young, you were like this little beast, and like you were very much in the moment and you had to like do do do and like go, go, go, right? And I'm still that way a little bit, but not as much of a beast. My, my, you know, I've moved from this like crazy, wild, beastie lifestyle into more like calm, aware, chill. I don't know. I I could still be a little bit radical, right? Radical, right? You don't want to lose your ability to be radical sometimes, right? Rebellious in nature. Okay. So I guess I needed to go through the experiences that I had when I was younger so that way I can be the therapist that I am today, right? The holistic wizard therapist that you all know and love. Maybe don't even know me, right? But we're getting to know each other, right? Through this focal exchange. Yeah, you know, I'm doing the yapping and you're just doing the listening. So thank you for opening your ears and like allowing me presence in your life. I really appreciate it, for real. So, drugs, herbs, and society. The reason I am calling this drugs, herbs, and society is because I actually took a class called Drugs, Herbs, and Society in my Bachelors of Science degree. And I took it because I I'm gonna tell you, right? I have always had a fascination for a long time about altered states of consciousness. Okay. And I for a very long time, long time. This is this is real. I have been envisioning doing psychedelic integration work with body work. Okay. It's a long time, probably as long as I've been a licensed sage therapist. I've maybe always had this thought in the back of my mind. And when I say psychedelic integration work, I don't mean while people are tripping balls. Okay. I I really don't mean that for real. Like that would be one of the worst situations I would I could probably find myself in is just being like, yeah, like let me let me feel your skull while you're like, you know, in another realm, like totally another realm, right? I know I sometimes in my work I talk about inner realms and being being inside and going inside, which is totally separate from being on drugs and going inside your realms, because those realms can be kind of crazy and you're just kind of like laying there. It looks like you're totally comatose, but you are like, you know, everything's unfolding inside your brain. If you've never done psychedelics before, I don't I don't even know. Maybe you're gonna listen to this and be like, whoa, okay. But you can have all these, all these it's like if you've ever seen any any of the Marvel movies, this is gonna get weird, I guess, with like Doctor Strange, where he's going in through in through into strange land, you know, and like all the buildings are all moving in and out and like getting all crazy, you know. It's kind of like that sometimes, sometimes it can be like that. But then you have all these thoughts and things that come in and really start to uh you know open up your ways of thinking, right? And anyway, I've always had this fascination with psychedelics. And I I first did some psychedelics when I was 17 with some buddies, and we're all like in a in a safe place. We we you know, gosh, goodness, I feel like I started this a little bit late, but yeah, anyway, psychedelics. So we we were all together. I was 17 and we were at a buddy's house, and their their parents were gone, and you know, basically no supervision, right? Let's let's be honest, there's no supervision there. And me and a bunch of buddies were all all doing this, and we all decided to do these these psychedelics, and it was awesome, you know, it was totally a mind-blowing experience. And you know, yeah, like like the walls kind of melted, you know, the synesthesia came in, you know, where you start seeing sounds and like like hearing, you know, it is your senses get all mixed up, right? You see sounds and like you hear colors, things like that, right? And it gets a little interesting with when you're on, you know, these these substances, right? These plant medicines. And you know, when you're 17 and just kind of being a little wildling and you know, exploring the world, right? You you get a little mischievous. And and like that's what I've been learning with human design is that I had to do all these like things to kind of like bounce around and learn and have these experiential experiences, right? And I as a kid, you know, I've always grown up living and enjoying like imagination land and like making stories inside my head, creating like dream worlds and like like even writing stories and being like creative. I remember being young and like writing, I would sit down and I'd be I I don't remember when I started doing this, maybe first grade, maybe younger, I don't know. But I would write stories, and as I learned how to put stories together, you know, I would I would craft new ones and they would kind of build a little bit, or maybe there'd be an overarching theme. Usually it would be around like some kind of like a fantasy, like uh a king, queen, you know, castle town situation. There would be like a a wizard, probably, you know, there'd be a dragon, good stuff like that, you know. Maybe like a cyclops or something, you know, a minotaur nearby living in a maze, you know, and stuff like that. I don't know. I was a creative, creative little, little goober. So I'd write stories like that, things that I would see on on TV or through movies, you know, whatever. I don't know where all the creativity came from, but I would draw, I would do different stuff. But anyway, I've always lived in imagination land. So when it comes to the idea of doing a psychedelic, right, I got the idea that they could be interesting from the Dare program, right? Let's give it around for Dare. Right, Dare, so successful, such a weird little thing. It's actually like a sheriff department MLM program. Come to find out that like these, like you know, they they were incentivized by like putting out this Dare program and like you could like build upon it and like grow it out, right? Make it as cool as you wanted to be. And in Paulton County, right, we had it, we had a really good Dare program. It was really well ran. And I don't know, they kind of came around to schools and they would teach kids about drugs, which is kind of like a little weird. Like, you know, if nobody taught us about drugs, then how do we know about them to be like, oh, what's that? Oh gosh, you know, my my third grade ears all of a sudden want to do PCP, right? And uh up until that time, you know, all you knew was like your studies or whatever you went to school for, right? Or whatever was happening on television, right? You know, cartoons, and then you all of a sudden are like, we want to talk to you kids about crack today. What's crack? And then you see all these pictures of like all these people, just like, you know, you know, crackheads, you know what I mean? Picture just picture one, if you will. But yeah, and then you're like, What? Why am I learning about this stuff? And they're like, Well, we want you to not do this, so we're gonna teach you about it now. Or it's like, well, I didn't know about it before, you know. It's kind of a weird way to introduce kids to drugs, you know, let's say it. So, anyway, so I learned about psychedelics in in drug school, right? At Dare, and I'm I'm kidding you not, I'm pretty sure like third, fourth grade. Maybe fifth grade. Now I'm thinking about it. I was in fifth grade anyway when they came. And I remember, you know, I was back then, you know, obviously in fifth grade, like I wasn't doing drugs, but I was that'd be crazy. But like, I actually I remember writing this paper about like how how my grandfather shouldn't smoke cigarettes and all this stuff, right? And I get remember getting all emotional about it, and I remember going and like breaking all of his cigarettes and stuff. He he was a little grumpy at that time about it, but I remember him stopping smoking, so I always thought that that was kind of cool. And anyway, Dare came in, they they taught us about drugs, they taught us about how you know you could like you know, I don't know. I remember them making psychedelics seem so fun, and like, oh what you can go into imagination world, like I want to do that, you know, and like be there for hours, you know. Okay, cool. Inside your mind, just whatever. So that time came, we did the thing, and it was great. I I remember I'll always kind of compare it to this, and I don't I don't remember if it was the first time, the I don't know. There's been some times, but I remember feeling like what happened was God, okay, God, big cloud up in the sky, man, right? You know, at that time I was still still quite into it. Anyway, he I feel like he ripped open the clouds, stuck a big hand down, opened up my skull, stuck his big finger in my brain, scrolled it around a little bit, closed me back up, and then sent me on my way. I feel like that's what happened during that that trip. And it was, I don't know, it was like 10, 12 hours. It was a good long trip, right? On some pretty potent stuff. And and it was cool, you know, it totally blew my mind. But it's like, okay, like like I I I I I really don't remember anything from that experience other than how I felt afterwards, and I just feel like I was completely awakened. It's like, okay, this is life now, okay. You know, and that's where I learned that we're all one, we're all connected, you know, all the things that you learn when you have those experiences. And it's really, it's really bizarre to me. So let's fast forward a little bit. So I, when I was in school for my bachelor's of science, I, you know, I was taking this drugs, urban, society class. Well, the reason I wanted to go to school for like what I was doing was because I wanted to become like this, like a psychedelic integration therapist who I would work with people who after or even before, you know, before these big experiences. And I still want to do this, right? This is this is kind of a big passion. This is actually something big that I I I like, right? And I because I like altered states of consciousness, right? And learning about it and the self-healing aspects of it. But I would like to be a psychedelic integration therapist and I would like to work with people before and after their psychedelic experiences to help them either prepare their body, prepare like for what they're gonna go for, and make it more of a ceremonial type thing rather than just like a yeah, I'm tripping out, bro. You know, can you see those Oreos talking to me, man? They're telling me, eat me, eat me. I don't know. I don't know. I've seen some stuff on some some things, right? But and I and I I realize it's it's very illegal, right? And you should not be doing them, right? I I do not condone them. And if you are, please go to somewhere, some country, some state, some facility, perhaps, you know, and do them legally, ethically, things like that, morally, right? I I don't condone them anymore, right? This is a story from long ago, right? Anyway, more on that later. More on that later. But but yeah, so I wanted to, I I wanted to go to get my bachelor's degree so that way I could eventually get my master's degree to be able to do like psychedelic work with people, right? And that's kind of what I've always been wanting to do behind the scenes. And I got to a point where I'm like, you know what, I I can't really be doing body work if I'm doing mental health work. They kind of frown upon doing the two. So I I decided to keep in the route that I'm doing, but I still wanted my bachelor's degree in case like well, eventually one day I I'd love to go get my master's degree. You know, I I'm a master in my own art right now, but like I don't feel like a master yet because I don't feel like I'm old enough. It's really weird, you know. I I know there's people who are running around their like master's degrees and stuff, and they're like, I got my master's, you know, and you're like 25 or whatever. And it's like, okay, cool, good, good job. Maybe, maybe not 25, I don't know. But I I I want to be older when I'm a master. I don't know, just something goofy. But I've been eyeing a program, like a PhD program in depth psychology with like an emphasis on integrative healing arts. It's kind of intriguing, but it's also in California. So I don't know. Anyway, Drugs Herbs and Society. So I took this class called Drugs Herbs and Society, you know, because you know it just sounded really awesome. So I was already by this time, I was already quite experienced. So I was like, okay, let's take it. So I took this class and it was really eye-opening because it really talked about how, you know, I mean, I I knew a lot about a lot of this stuff already because I've I do a lot of research around psychedelics. I've read a ton of stuff. In fact, one of my favorite authors, Michael Pollan, wrote a book about how to change your mind using psychedelic substances, and it's a beautiful book. I really encourage anyone who is interested in this subject matter to pick up that book, pick up a copy of that book and read it. It's it's just filled to the brim of anything you need to know about psychedelic work, psychedelic therapy, psychedelic assisted therapy. Like, and for those of you who don't know, and maybe you're sitting around being like, ah, she's just talking about illegal drugs the whole time. Like, that's the thing. Outside of this rural area that I live in, you know, on the coasts, you know, you know, and across the world right now, there's so much amazing research being done in the world of psychedelic therapy that it's it's I believe, right? I believe so strongly in this work. Like, like this is the heartbeat of everything that kind of I I do behind the scenes of stuff. And I know it might sound weird, you know, talking about this stuff and being like, what the hell, Joel? Like, I thought you're just for pain and stress. Like, not really. I'm more about altered states of consciousness for self-healing, you know, and that's what my work really ultimately does. And that's why I like different stuff that kind of puts people into that perspective, that deep perspective that takes them inside themselves. Because back then, you know, when I was young and I had this big expansive experience that blew my damn top, like I had an experience that took me inside myself and was like, okay, who am I? You know, why am I here? You know, what is the universe? You know, where did the universe come from and where is it going? You know, these big questions that we should be answering, right? And I think that's why I also, when I was younger, maybe it was so rebellious against religion because I got those answers when I was 17 at a buddy's house, you know, and over the weekend, you know, we were unsupervised. Like I said, we were just chilling, right? And and it's not like we were in danger, really. Like, like we all trusted each other, we were supportive of each other, we were just ready, and we were like, yeah, like you know, we we blur burn blunts all the time. Like we might as well just like totally space out with some of this this you know, these these things that we have. And we did, and it was a really good time. And I I don't look back on it at all. Now that I'm thinking about it though, yeah, now that I'm thinking about it and trying to remember, right? Because her our memories are in there. Anyway, that might have been a time where I like burnt my fingers. Now that you know, this this doesn't sound good now that I'm thinking about it, but there might have been a time in there where I like burnt my hands because I had I I think this did totally happen. You know how some people store pans in their oven, you know, when they're not in use. So that happened, and we preheated the ovens to make these cookies or brownies or something. I I think they were brownies because of the pan that I'm remembering. But yeah, so this pan was somehow preheated in the oven, okay? And I went to go grab it out, being like, like I didn't I didn't realize, you know, that that it was in there or something. I don't know what I was thinking really now that I'm looking back at it. But anyway, I grabbed it, held it, and I was like looking at my buddy, and I was like, I was like, I was like, why was the pan already in the oven? And then he's like, that's hot. And I I didn't realize it until he said, you know, that that's the power of like the psychedelics because it's it's like your your default mode, right? The mode of normal mode of thinking. There's so much that I can get into. It sucks that we're 20 minutes, two minutes in, and I I love this subject matter. This is kind of like like the real thing, you know, that I I really. Kind of get behind. It's so weird. And I'm I'm so sorry, but like I've got to say it. I've got to talk about it. Right. It's just it's one of those things that kind of festers. Okay. And this is this is a fun episode. That's why I want it to be episode 13. And anyway. Gosh. Yeah, there's a there's a lot to it. So let's get in. Like, okay. So I psychedelics are really cool. If you if you get into it and you look into the research that's being done with with people who are in end stages of life, you know, I don't think there's anything more beautiful than if somebody has an experience at the end of stage of their life that reminds them how good their life was, you know, and then they can kind of piece all that together. They can come to terms with things, maybe if they're holding on to resentment or anything at the end of their life that they really need to move through. Like they're the stuff that they're doing right now with end-of-life palliative care under, you know, psychedelic care and psychedelic assisted therapy is so beautiful right now. It's it's awesome. But they're, you know, they're experimenting right now with psychedelic assisted therapy to do, you know, chronic pain, digestive issues, you know, autoimmune issues, neurological issues, like so much research is now being done. And it's been blocked basically since 1963, when like, you know, because of acid, right, back in the day, it just was not understood. And all these negative stories just spewed out from all these lawmakers, right? And it just got really out of control and really shitty for a lot of people, really quickly, who were already in the field who were studying these things, and it was their livelihood, right? So, like, like MDMA, right, ecstasy, that was being heavily studied for couples counseling. And it was being tremendously seen as a benefit in couples therapy because what MDMA does on a scientific level is that it reduces the amygdala in the brain, right? That fear center that we have. So it reduces and it quiets down that fear center. So things are not so so heavy. And you can actually talk about them without worrying or upsetting or you know, disrupting the boundaries that you had created for yourself to protect yourself, to protect your ego, right? So that's that's that's an amazing thing. But but at that time in 1963, when a lot of the drug stuff like it was just coming to a close or all the research was coming to a close, it was very unfortunate for a lot of people in that industry. But what's interesting is that outside of the United States, where we have all this fear-mongering and control, and you know, a lot of these big things, uh a lot of these big corporations or whatever controlling entities, right? The reptiles behind the scene, if you will, these people don't want us doing these substances because what they do is they they change our default mode. We have a default mode network, and how that works is like a like a think of a record groove, okay? How the record the music gets played through the grooves of a record, okay? Imagine if you had some dust in there and all of a sudden it gets stuck and then it just keeps looping. And it's like, you know, and it's just stuck on this record loop. And that's how a lot of people operate, unfortunately, on their regular day-to-day life, okay? And they're kind of stuck on this loop of thinking. Maybe you have like a like a limiting belief or cycle of thought that's just like, oh shit, you know, and it's just with you and it won't leave. Okay. So that's our default mode. Okay. And psychedelics, what they do, certain ones, what they do is they they really disrupt that default mode, okay? That path, right? So then in the record groove, you just you have like a cleaning cloth go by and it just like swipes that little bit of dust away, and all of a sudden your record can creep on and on, right? And that's good. Okay. So that is that is what it is, right? And like I said, you know, if you're gonna be doing these and you're gonna be experimenting with this and you're gonna be doing your research, please go with a a facility of some sort, a legal entity that does this. I don't condone just experimenting at your home. Okay. And so, yeah, so I've I've studied a lot of stuff about drugs and drug culture. In that class, I learned so so much about like the history, right? So I've talked a little bit before about my cannabis use. So cannabis and I have been together now. Sweet Mary Jane has been a part of my life for like 21, 22 years. It's crazy to say that out loud and cast this in, you know, on a on a podcast, right? But it's the truth, right? It is absolutely the truth. And 20 21 years is nothing to sneeze at, right? Some people don't don't stay married that long anymore, right? That's that's my longest relationship, to be honest, is with with sweet Mary Jane. And, you know, what started as you know, that could be a topic on its own, completely entirely, cannabis itself, but you know, what started as like, you know, like my my friends and I, like after high school and things, so cannabis is kind of interesting. I started smoking weed the like 4th of July, my the summer before my junior year, right? So that that sophomore fresh or sophomore junior that that summer, right? So around the fourth of July of that year. And I remember the very first time I started smoking cannabis. I this is kind of funny that I mentioned this friend earlier, but I went with a group of friends. I had a whole different group of friends prior to smoking cannabis, right? And then after smoking cannabis, kind of fell in with a different crowd, right? As you tend to do, right? Unless your other friends are just like, hey, let's all gather around, right? And I I was over at a buddy's house, it was like we were having this fourth of July party and we were all like shooting fireworks at each other and like laughing, having fun. I think we were all just drinking energy drinks and like being a bunch of goobers, as sometimes what we did. And it was we were having a fun time, and I had I'd purchased some some cannabis from a buddy of mine, and he we were we were having a discussion one day at school, and I was like, you know, just how much is this cannabis, right? How much is a weed? And he's like, Yeah, I can get you as much as little as 10 bucks. And I was like, 10 bucks. And he's like, Yeah, you ever heard of a dime bag? And I was like, No, I've never heard of a dime bag. And so I was like, Okay, well, I got ten dollars. Here's ten bucks. You can get me some greens. He's like, Yeah, come meet me after school in Defiance. I was like, okay, cool. Right? So I went to Defiance, a local community here, and I was like, All right, bud, let's let's get some let's get a little dime bag. So we got a dime bag. And a buddy of mine from school, another buddy of mine who ended up being one of my best friends, he he showed me how to make like a little pipe out of a pop can, right? That's what she did, and so I I I learned how to make that, and I was like, okay, cool. So like maybe that night or the next night, I went to this my other buddy's house, and like there was a bunch of us around, we were all hanging out, like I said, having fun, fireworks and stuff. And I was like, hey, I've got a little little weed. And they all looked at me like, what? What? You know, and I was like, Yeah, does anybody want to smoke this with me? And they're like, No, no. And I was like, Oh, okay, okay, well, I'm I'm I'm gonna smoke some of this and and see what happens. And as as it usually happens when when people smoke, sometimes they're usually their first time, you know. I I I hear a lot of these stories anyway, right? And the the first time people smoke, like they don't really get high. And that that's what happened. I smoked out of this pop can. Well, I had a lot of shame, honestly, come up because my friends reacted so funny to me doing that. Like, like I thought we were all cool and like you know, kind of a part of a collective, and I don't know. So I was like, okay, well, I don't know. I don't know. So so I I smoked by myself. It wasn't a really good time, and then I didn't end up getting high, and then I just kind of got in my head about things. I was like, oh man, I probably shouldn't have done that. You know, I've now I kind of feel a little weird and like everybody's looking at me weird, you know what I mean? One of those weird little situations. I I don't think I was really high though, you know, yeah, knowing knowing knowing what it was, you know, then and now I don't know. But anyway, I I wasn't really that high, but paranoid, right? The paranoia came because I wasn't as high as I probably would have been to be like, oh fuck paranoia, right? Anyway, this has been a longer episode, so thank you guys for listening. But it's a fun story. I hope you guys are having fun to this. But so yeah, lots lots of years of smoking cannabis. I I wouldn't I wouldn't call it a gateway drug. I don't know. I I didn't really start drinking until later. Like I smoked cannabis first and then drinking came later. But I don't think I would call it a gateway drug. Like I wasn't like, okay, I need to get higher, so I'm gonna take on alcohol. I was just like, okay. I don't know. I I I I I did drink, you know, a little bit when I was underage and things like that, but as as people kind of tend to do, but like maybe like eight, like 19, 19, 20, maybe when I started drinking. Like I don't think I was like super young at all. I think I was actually out of school by the time I was drinking. Well, maybe not. I don't remember. Anyway, yeah. Anyway, you know, people people tend to experiment with with all kinds of different substances, you know, whether it be alcohol, whether it be coke, whether it be, you know, cannabis, whatever it is, right? But cannabis and psychedelics are two of my my more that I have a little bit more comfort with, right? Let's say that. And, you know, but there's other ones, right? And I I'm gonna we're gonna get into that a little bit here as well. So I've I've I've experimented with quite a quite a bit of things, and you know, these these were all so long ago. In fact, it's been like 16 years since I've done anything that's like dangerous, right? Actually, that's part of why I left Denver. I, I'll be honest, right? This is the place and time to tell it and be real, right? So I actually developed a cocaine habit while I was out in Denver. As crazy as this might, well, whatever, right? We all have a life to live, and these things are part of our life, and it's important to talk about it, right? So I developed a little bit of a cocaine habit. It wasn't crazy, but it like I said before in the Denver episode, I didn't really have a lot of money, right? And it's not because I was just doing cocaine all the time, I really wasn't working at the time that I was doing cocaine, which you know, when you don't have income and you like cocaine, it's not really a great thing. So when I was working, I had like a little bit of streams of income coming in, but I also had like a neighbor that had this this cocaina, right? So I would go over to this house just a few unfortunate blocks away, and I would hang out with some some cool, awesome people over there, like like like generally it was a great crowd, right? It wasn't like a scary crowd or anything like that, but I would go over there and you know I would get these bags from from this buddy of mine, and yeah, and anyway, developed that and it wasn't good, and it really didn't last too long, but maybe maybe a month, right? Maybe a month, and which isn't very long in retrospect at all. Honestly, it could have been much worse. And I I have dabbled in other things, stuff like that. Yeah, I've I've tried a lot of different things, and and there's there was a time in Denver where I even tried like a an experimental psychedelic, is what I was told at the time, which is you know a little quite risky. I was I was a risky biscuit back then, I just was and much much less than I am now, which is kind of funny thinking different things. But maybe we'll maybe once one one day we'll get back to being risky biscuits. But so anyway, I did I did this experimental, it was actually a really good night. Well, like like a lot of the stories that I have were like really good, you know. That's what makes it hard to even talk about this kind of stuff because a lot of people have had really hard experiences on it, or like they're a lot of loss and stuff like that, different things. And like I have lost friends and stuff from you know things of of this nature, and you know, it is is very hard, but at the same time, like some of the stories and things and the memories and stuff are quite wild. So I did this experimental substance called 2CB, and it was created by Sasha Sulk Shulgan, and I do believe, I'm pretty sure. And it was really cool, really, really cool. And it's it's like a mix between like acid, from what I remember, it's a mix between like LSD acid and like mushrooms, or mushrooms and mdma. I think of mushrooms and mdma. Now that I'm thinking about it, I don't remember. It's probably not true, or just what the dude told me, right? And so I ended up doing this, I ended up splitting with a buddy, and we had a really good night that night. Like, really good night. Like, I remember we were like laughing so hard, and we had one of my buddies, uh, his name was Odin. He had like an American flag cape on, and he had a like a Budweiser cowboy hat. And then I for some reason took over. Like, I had this little stuffed bison, right? I don't know, little little dude. And I remember he he would like wear, like have it on his shoulder, or like he would put it on the hat or have it on his shoulder, and like he was just like posing like this like tough, tough American like ad ad ad man, right? Like advert advertisement man, like a I I don't know how to describe it, but he would like like posing be like, yeah, I'm Captain, Captain of America, or something like that. You know, not Captain America, but like just this this image, right? Like, like imagine you know, somebody wearing an American flag cape, a Butterweiser hat with like this bison on their shoulder, like and he was shirtless and just like wearing jeans, right? I I don't know why, but we're you know tripping balls. And who's just lack like laughing hysterically? And I I don't even remember, I don't I don't think he did anything. I think he was just there hanging out with us. But me and me and my other buddy were taking part in this, and we we ended up splitting it because we're like, we don't know what the hell this is gonna do to us. So if we only half did it, you know, maybe we'd be like, okay, cool. But we ended up having a really good night, so probably a good thing we didn't take the whole thing. But anyway, that's one story. Let's, gosh, there's so much. But I I really contribute. This is gonna sound funny. I really contribute the ability that I have to talk to many different types of people, okay, many different types of people because of my misadventures with all this stuff, you know. And I had to be reckless and I had to be a little dangerous, right? And I had to I had to experiment with some of this stuff because because I live through lived experience. And I'm learning all this stuff now through learning and diving into human design. But when I was younger, you know, I I was reckless, I was a total hellion, you know, and I run into people now, like clients and stuff, and they'd be like, I remember when you were a young kid and like you were such a hell-on, you know. And I I had a sweet client not too long ago tell me that. And I'm like, wow, that's that's crazy to hear, you know, and and I was, I absolutely was. I was just like this this wild little ADHD rattled kid. And I mean, I was even put on medication, you know, when I was young for for ADHD, and you know, I started out on Ritalin and then I went to Adderall. And, you know, if you know stuff about that, it's kind of like meth, right? It's it's like one little molecule away from being meth. And I I think that's why I enjoyed highs. You know, that's why I got really used to finding a high, trying to chase a high. And even though I've been I've been smoking cannabis for, like I said, you know, 21, 22 years now, quite regularly, I will say it's it's getting to a weird little point where it's like, okay, you know, like that had its time, it had its place, you know, I've learned maybe from the medicine about what I need to, and now I'm slowly kind of transitioning away from that. And that's it's been a process, you know, it's it's definitely been a process because I've the more that I do self-discovery, the more I'm learning, like, you know, there's a part of me that tries to escape from life through cannabis use, you know, and I know this. And and since it's become legal here in Ohio, I you know, it's such a weird little roller coaster because it became legal and then it kind of became more unleak un-illegal, unlegal. I don't know. Illegal again, weird. It because it's just some some nonsense, right? Some people just, you know, cannabis is one of those things where when people consume cannabis versus they consume alcohol, their mind becomes more expansive and like open, whereas alcohol is more limiting and it it creates hostility and things like that that we we know of, right? It's it's a neurotoxin, alcohol is a neurotoxin, so it's really not good. Cannabis, you know, there's there's forms of cannabis that are a lot easier on the body than than alcohol is. But cannabis, I I believe, is our right, it's it's been used for tens of thousands of years, ceremonially, recreationally, you know, medicinally, many different ways, right? There's many different ways, and a lot of different types of cultures have used cannabis throughout, you know, time to help their nervous system. We have the endocannabinoid system within our nervous system, right? It runs through our central and peripheral nervous system, and it's literally supposed to be here. So this plant that's a naturally occurring plant on this planet, it's it's it's grown to evolve with us. Earlier, I spoke about Michael Pollan. He's got a book called This Is Your Mind on Plants, where he talks about, you know, kind of an anthropol anthropological lens through how we have transitioned to grow with with plants, and how they have like a like a complete oh my gosh, the words right now. They they have a complete relationship with us, right? Let's let's just get to it. Let's I don't even need to spin on a word, right? They have a relationship with us. Plants do. So he talks about caffeine, opium, and peyote, right? I've never done peyote. That's that's actually a drug I've never done. I've never done done, it's probably easier to say that. I've never done PCP and I've never done peyote or ayahuasca or ibogaine or some of those other types of things like that, right? But the other things I I've dabbled in. I uh gross. Just even thinking of it sometimes makes me sick to my stomach because yeah. So I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you a little weird little story about heroin. So heroin sucks, first of all. Don't ever do heroin, okay? Don't ever do cocaine, don't don't do drugs, okay? Don't do drugs. Okay. I definitely want to be clear on this. This is just a story, right? We're just telling stories, right? But don't ever do heroin. It's the the the most disgusting, gross actually don't do crack either, but it's one of the most disgusting, uh, gross things ever. Okay. First of all, it smells like stinky, cruddy old mustard. It's gross, right? And to tell you, I've I've never I've never done the needle thing. That's right. I'm I'm not a like, I wouldn't just go around sticking needles in me. That's crazy, first of all. Especially if you're not a phlebotomist. That's nuts. But yeah, so I would just I would like take it nasally, right? Snort it through the nose, and it's no good. It's no good. I've done I've done heroin three times in my life, and each time I got sick as fuck, and it's terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Never do it. One of the first times I I did it, I'm gonna tell you a weird little story. So one time when I did it, right? There's only three times. The first time, first time wasn't I I guess so bad, but like it was weird. Maybe that was this first time. Maybe I did get a little sick that time. Let me think about it. Anyway, so I I did it with some friends somewhere, and we we're came back and we went to a family video. And at the time, my my girlfriend worked at this family video, the lady that I was dating, and I was so dreaded that she would see me like like weird, you know, like I was like kind of acting a little funky, you know. I've never I've never done done the the heroin before, and do not condone it. And so I was like weird, right? Like, and I felt weird. And when I was like walking around there, I was like, oh god, okay, her car's not here, like I oh, it'll be okay. You know, I don't know. And so I don't know why we why the hell we went to family video. I think somebody had to either pick something up or drop something off or pay off something. I don't remember. Bad idea. Don't go to a family video when you're on heroin. But anyway, I was standing there, all of a sudden the sweats hit me. Like I was burning alive, and I was like, what the hell is going on here? What the hell does that mean? Anyway, so I was like, okay, I gotta go outside. So I thought I was gonna pass the hell out. So I went out, stood by my car, got my breath, enjoyed the air, and like I just I felt like ugh, like I felt like I had the instant flu. I don't know how to describe it other than that. But it was no bueno. Anyway, my friends finally come out. My ex or my girlfriend at the time wasn't in there, thank God. And like her friends, she had like a little friend group who worked there, so like they weren't there either. So I was like, oh, thank God, you know, it's just like the the B team tonight, whatever. So yeah, that was weird. That sucked. I don't remember the second time, but that probably sucked. The third time, this third time was the worst time, and I that's why I was like, Nope, never again. We're done. This is stupid. Like, you need to move away from this and the people who were doing this because this is this is shitty. And I did it at this house, right? It was my my friend, my friend was dating this lady at the time, and I did it, and I like backed out of my driveway, or backed out of her driveway, and like pulled forward of the stop sign and like put it in park, opened my door, and just vomited all over the street. And I was like, so gross, right? And I remember, I can remember that that taste, that smell, that mustardy flavor, so gross. It it was like it's like uh mustard. Like if you had like ground mustard, imagine that somebody was wearing that in their shoe for a week and then you snorted it, right? That's what it smelled like. If you can you see why I'm like right, you can maybe hear it. I guess you can't see it. But anyway, so yeah, that was weird. And ever since then, I was like, nope, gone, done. Like, if if this is the price you pay for feeling good, right? No, I don't want to pay it. I don't want to pay it anymore. So we walked away that day. And thank God, because my friends, some of my friends went through kind of dark rabbit holes with that. And you know, one of my my one of my really good friends, thankfully, I'm really thankful he's still alive. He got in a lot of trouble, he learned a really hard lesson, paid the price, right? But now he's got his life together. He's he just sits around, plays video games, and I'm I'm really thankful that he's still around because he's one of my favorite humans in the world. Big big shout out to you, bud. And yeah, anyway, like it's kind of been a crazy ride, you know, and I've I've shared some stories, and there's so many more crazy stories that I could share. My gosh. Like I was listening to a bit ago about the time where I heard like Gwen Stefani and stuff through Red Rocks, and they were I I could hear her like vocals warming up and she's kind of going over the mountains. I I liked Red Rocks. There was a time that I went tripping at Red Rocks and had an absolute blast with my roommate Christian at the time, and you know, Denver's a totally interesting vibe. So, like, like people were just kind of out there doing that kind of thing. We actually ran into a couple other people who were out there tripping. It was so much fun, but it was a beautiful scene, beautiful park. It was it was an awesome time. I'll always remember that time. Gosh, I remember, you know, I I love music festivals, going to music festivals, and some of these people that I listen to in the psychedelic space, they're always talking about how music festivals are kind of like the Olympics for doing psychedelics because there's so much chaos there that you don't know what could happen. You you literally have no idea. And in the realm of of psychedelic stuff, some of the very important tenants, the the two main rules, right, of psychedelics is your set, which is your mindset, and setting, like your environment, where you're at, who you're with, things like that. So those two things are vitally important. And if you do them at a music festival, you can't really control them at all, right? Somebody can come along and like spill your, I don't know, water or something, right? I don't know, and they just agitate you, or you you never know what can happen. But but I've done my fair share at, you know, music festivals and things where you're camping, you're safe, you're amongst many other people who are, you know, doing doing these crazy things. And I've had weird experiences at those, right? Those are very weird. I had a I had a really weird experience one time where I know this is longer and maybe you're in for it. Maybe you're like, wow, what a what a ride you've had, bud. And but anyway, I I I get tickled by this kind of stuff. And this is this is probably gonna be the time where I talk about it, you know? It's finally time to talk about it. Because I I feel like I don't have to be so suppressed, you know, since I did the Cortina method. I feel like, you know, who cares? Because there's other people out there, celebrities even, who are like, yeah, I did, I did whatever, you know. It's like, why can't I voice this? Why can't I opinionate this? You know, like I've said, for the last like 10 years, I've wanted to do psychedelic integration therapy with people. I've studied it, I've researched, I've got so many damn books on the whole subject that I've I've read and that I love, you know. I love, you know, it's so interesting, like learning about the history of like psychedelics and things, you know, from like Ramdas, Richard Alpert, who taught at Harvard, you know, Timothy Leary, when all that stuff went down. And it involved like Andrew Weil, Dr. Andrew Weil, who's another role model that I really look up to. He wrote a really cool book called From Chocolate, Chocolate to Morphine, which is all about all kinds of substances that alter your your mind and your mood and you know different types of things. It's really cool. He also wrote one called The Marriage of the Sun and Moon. That's about like some adventures that he had in South America when he was going through his different research and studies and learning about these different substances and different ways to heal the body, more importantly. You know, so there's a lot of so many, you know, credentialed people who are like awesome in the world, really doing their thing and like healing the world through these medicines. You know, I I you know, I I've had a lot of experiences and and I'm at a place where I'm ready to share them. You know, I'm almost 40 years old. I don't have to be afraid of like sharing these things. Like I don't I don't do them anymore. And I I've moved on from that that part of my life, you know, and and I I think I had to have those experiences because if I didn't have those, if I didn't push things to the limit, if I didn't act a little bit rebellious, then I wouldn't have the the deep appreciation for the the art and the the work that I do now and the desire to really help pull people out of dark places because I've I've seen dark places, you know. I've I've had some trips and things where it's it seems pretty helpless, you know what I mean? And you're like, why am I stuck in this chaos? You know, my I'll I'll tell you the story of my worst trip actually happened in in my house here where I live. This is a long time ago, right? This is a long time ago. I've I've since learned, but it's kind of an interesting story. So I was at a buddy's buddy's house and down the road, right? Very close in proximity, and we'd we'd been up all night tripping. And we're I think we were eating mushrooms and having a good time. And the sun was kind of coming up, and we we're to preface this a little bit, we were watching movies, right? Which is sometimes a good idea, sometimes not a good idea. And we watched two specific movies that night over the whole night, and well we were just like sitting in this little area, like just chilling, chuckling, you know, smoking, having a good time, right? It was fun, and we had a blast, lots of good memories in that space. And we were we watched, okay, so this might freak people out, but we watched Rob Zombie's House of a Thousand Corpses, which I've actually seen a few times while under the influence, and I really enjoy that movie. I love it. So to watch that is some people might be like, Oh my god, that's scary in real life. I can't imagine, but it's actually quite a fun adventure. And the second one, I I recommend nobody nobody ever watch this movie while you're on psychedelics. Okay, it will really fuck with you. And I think that this is the reason why why I was fucked with, because when you watch it in ri regular vision, right? Sober vision, okay, if you will, it's it's a little bit of a head trip itself. It's it's a it is a head trip itself, okay. But if you watch it while you're under the influence of psychedelics, the the view that you see in this movie is how your real world view turns into because you're staring at the screen for so long, right? And it's it's not good. So the movie is called The Waking Life, okay. I don't know the director right now, it's totally blanket from my mind, but the the waking life, okay. So this movie is rotoscoped, okay. Rotoscoping is where you take real video and then you go over it with like a car like cartoon animation, okay? And the screen is like it's always moving. It's it's a very weird movie. I do encourage people to go watch the movie, it's really cool. So it's about this kid who basically learns that he can control his dream states, and he's wake walking through his dream states, right? And he's he's dreaming while he's awake, and he learns how to basically control his dreams, and he goes and he has all these existential conversations with different celebrities and stuff, honestly, and actors, and they talk about big things, right? Some pretty heavy, heavy things, right? To to chew upon. Okay. So it's it's a heady movie in the first place, but then the scenes are always moving, and it's it's really artistic, it's really cool, but man, you you pay attention to that and you like watch that screen for a long time, and then you look in the real world, and then everything else starts moving. It's it's really it's a little freaky. So that's kind of what happened. And so after we watched that movie, Ozzy and I were both kind of a little weirded out. And the anyway, the sun was coming up, we were tripping, you know, all night long, whatever, and you know, long enough. And we were we were coming down, we weren't like heads in the clouds or anything like that anymore. We were we were coming back down to earth. And uh sorry, got a little gone. And so the the sun was coming up, the birds were out, right? It was morning time, which you know, I was talking about this being a bad trip, but it doesn't sound so bad so far, right? But then I was like, you know, I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. And he was like, okay, I'm gonna go inside and go to bed. I was like, cool, I'm tired too, I'm gonna go home, go to bed. Cool, good. See you later. And as I was I was going home, and I was I was coming back down to Earth, right? And it it's it was it's not very far from where I was to my house, right? Like one corner and I was going down, and I remember turning down the road. I I'm pretty sure I didn't see a single vehicle on the road. Okay. And as I was turning, I just turned, right? And I came right home. I went right home, came and came at home, you know. I think I don't remember. I can't I can't remember whether my parents were sleeping. Like it might have been really early, like it might have been like six six something a.m. Right, but it was summertime, so the sun was coming up. Anyway, it was light enough out. And I don't know, they they might have been asleep. So I snuck in and I got in bed, and for some reason, I had the simple thought come in my head that on my way home I had hit somebody, like hit a car, like caused a wreck, right? That's simple, simple, right? Real quickly, a flash, okay. And this is why psychedelics are, you know, you need to have a little bit of a little bit of respect for them, okay. That's why I talk about the the things that I talk about because I we need to have respect around it, right? If you're gonna do drugs, respect them, okay. And I don't know, I was young when this happened, and weird little experience. But so I got in my head that I caused an accident, okay, and then I drove away from this accident, and that the cops were gonna be at my house, and like I started like tail spinning right in my head, and I was like, oh my god, right? And it was just like but I had come down, like we had been way down from there, right? And we're in that real tired stage. If you've ever like experimented, there's there's this point, a point where you're just like, okay, I think I'm ready for bed, you know, I've been up all night, you know. So anyway, like I was I was good enough to come home. I'm pretty sure I didn't see anybody the whole way, but for some reason in my head, that I I got in my head about it, right? I got in my head and it started spinning and cycling, and it went so fast. And you know, and then I was like, oh my God, like like I can't, I can't believe it did this, whatever. And I kept like remember like looking out my windows, like opening up the blinds a little bit to be like, oh man, where where the cops at? They should be here any minute, they're gonna they're gonna know it was me, like my car's all damaged, all this stuff. And none of it was true. None of it was true, right? None of it, right? I was just at home, I was quiet, was chill, right? And yeah, and I I remember thinking, you know, I'm I'm going crazy. I'm going crazy right now, right? And I went through all that thought, right? And like when you're in this kind of mind space, you know, seconds can seem like years, right? So I was kind of in this little tangent, and I was like thinking, oh my God, you've you've lost your mind, Joel. You've done too much, you've you're crazy, right? You're done. The cops are gonna be here, they're gonna take you away, you're done, you're toast. So anyway, by the end of it, right? You know, because I don't know, I maybe, maybe right then I learned like I can absolutely control my thoughts, right? And I had this thought, it's like, nope, you know, if you're gonna be crazy, Joel, own it. You know? Be the crazy kid, just own that shit, right? So I told myself, I I came I became okay with being the crazy kid, right? I'm like, oh well, you know, another kid just lost his brain to shrooms, you know. It is what it is, you know. I should've listened to Dare. But no. So I came, I came, I became okay with it. And I remember just going to bed. It's like, okay, cool, I accepted it, right? Acceptance, right? When you are on psychedelics and like the world just seems so crazy and you're just like, oh right, and you're like, How am I in this? You know, what did I do to myself, right? And you're going through this muck. The cool the thing to remember, right, is that I I took a drug and the drug is working. Okay. That's that's like, you know, for anybody who does this, right? I like I said, I don't condone it, but it is good to know about a lot of things leading up to it, right? And also if you ever want to work with a psychedelic integration coach, more on that later. But but yeah. So it, you know, think just think those things. Like, like I took a drug, the drug is working. As soon as after I go to sleep, I'll be okay, right? So that that's what ended up happening. And I remember waking up that next morning and just like chuckle or later later that day. It was morning later that day, you know, after getting some good shit eye and like chuckling, and I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I thought I was gonna be the crazy kid on the on the on the airport road, you know, the wildling of airport road, you know, just fried himself. But no, I I was totally fine. I'm still totally fine, you know, and years have gone by, you're and you know, I I know this is a lengthy episode, but obviously I'm passionate about this and I just keep talking, right? But years went by, and there was a long period of time, a few years ago, where I didn't do any psychedelics because I was so worried, right? I had studied them. It's so crazy, right? So when I during the entire time that I was getting my bachelor's degree of science, right, behind the scenes, what I was doing was I was studying psychedelics, right? Learning about it, like reading as much as I could. So when I took the Drugs Herbs and Society class, it really just built upon that and it fired a lot of things up, right? And I I learned more about the history of it, right, from an anthropological standpoint, and then how we are now as a society, how we view it, and like how other countries view it, you know. What's really cool is that other countries they had a lot of continued research during the psychedelic movement, while, you know, in 1963 we we were on pause, you know, and it's it's very unfortunate that our country was on pause for that long because other countries have figured out all the benefits of these substances and like they're starting to integrate them into their regular society, right? Is whereas in the United States we still bastardize a lot of the stuff because of the the honestly, if you guys want to get down to it, there's a lot of racist like history behind drug use. Like cannabis itself has such a racist history that it that behind the league il illegalization of it, right? Because there's no medical reason why it should be illegal, right? Never, it should never have been illegal from a legal, like a you know, medical standpoint, right? But like there's no medical reason for it, right? Because it's one of the few top few substances in the world where there's no legal toxic limit. Cannabis is one of those substances, also is mushrooms, right? There's no legal toxic limit. Now it can have you know crazy ass effects if you just you know eat a more than five grams of mushrooms, right? That's a heroic dose from the work of Terrence McKenna, right? So you you really don't want to eat more than that, right? You'll have ego disillusion, you'll have all this different stuff come up, but there's no toxic limit, right? So you could eat that much and just you you're gonna be okay, right? You're gonna have an experience, but you're gonna be okay, right? Same thing for cannabis. There's not a lot of substances in this world that we can do that with, right? That are actually safe. So that's what's interesting about cannabis and psychedelics and different things, you know, plant plant medicines, right? Some of the other psychedelics that are like more like like ketamine and things, like like those can have uh ad adverse effects that are not good. And I think a lot of that stuff is is harmful, you know, it to an extent, right? So ketamine clinics are like this big, big buzz thing right now that's kind of blooming. And you know, I've I've dabbled with ketamine for a little bit, and I I enjoyed it, but it was weird. It's a weird drug to be doing. And I know that a lot of these clinics are doing this, but I don't agree with a lot of the ways that they're doing it because there's no integration aspect to what they're doing. So it's like like a like a you know, you go in, you're in this room, you have this experience, you remember shit that maybe you don't really want to, and then they're like, okay, how's how's that for your mental health? You know, and then sometimes, sometimes there's a little follow-up, sometimes there's not, though. And they're just like, okay, you know, we'll see you back in a month or a week or whenever, right? Whenever you want to come back and have another experience. Like, and you know, sometimes they're good, sometimes they're bad. It just kind of depends on what it is, but there's like a commercialization aspect to it as well that I I don't really get down with. Like, there's a local one here in in Fort Wayne, they're called Viking Psychiatry. I hear their ads on 98.9 the bear, you know, all the time. And it it it's kind of mind-boggling. It's like, wow, how how did we get here as a psychic like a society where Indiana, you know, Indiana, one of the most conservative states that we have, right? Not this isn't political, right? But Indiana, right? One of the weirdest little backward states that we have is like promoting psychedelics, you know, on a very popular radio station a lot because they have a lot of money, right? Because there is a lot of money in this work because this work works, you know? And but it's I don't know. There, there's just I don't even know what they're doing for integration work. I I reached out to them not too long ago because I was really interested. I'm still really interested in doing integration work through body work. That's something that will always speak to me. And I I think it will always speak to me until I'm actually like doing it, and then I'm like, okay, now I'm I'm like in my groove. And obviously, this is the longest episode that I've done. So what you guys are hearing is, you know, some passion, right? I do have passion about this stuff because I know about it, right? I've I've studied it, I know the scientific effects of it, I know the neurological effects of it, I know how it affects our brain. I mean, I don't, I I don't regurgitate a lot of that stuff super well. I I it's like I'm taking in it, so I know how to like navigate it in my own, but to just be like, yes, this is what happens when you're you when this is what happens when your brain's on drugs, right? I like I don't want to stand up and do a PowerPoint about that. I just I want to I want to really help people navigate those experiences maybe once they're had and then open up their tissue and allow their body to breathe and move again so they can start to really really integrate those deep experiences through the mind-body perspective and that lens. I think there's there's really something to it. And you know, if I had a wish and I wished upon a thousand wishes, you know, the the my wish would be to travel to retreat spaces to actually do this work. You know, I have this this dream and this vision of Freedom Beach. Okay, and Freedom Beach represents to me like a goal in life where I'm laying under starlight in a warm, like tropical-ish kind of a place with warm, warm, slow, easy-moving water like around me. Maybe I'm floating under stars, a beautiful sky. And you know, Freedom Beach breathes to me like this this air of doing what I want to be doing, right? My my life is in a flow state, it's in accordance with my gut, and I'm like, yes, that's what I want to do. And Freedom Beach is kind of like an envelope, like an icon in my mind. Like I see Freedom Beach, I see this whole beach scene at night inside of a big like glass eyeball. It's like like a blue eye, but like it's see-through. So I don't know. I can just envision this beautiful like icon and this Freedom Beach, and like I'm looking through the eyes to see like the truth, right? Our eyes are a mirror of our souls, and I don't know. Yeah, so this was the Drugs, Herbs, and Society episode. I think I'm gonna wrap this up. This is an hour and five. Holy schmokes! I hope you guys are down for that. I I don't know. I I can talk and I can rant and I can ramble. Hopefully, you guys enjoyed some of these stories. Hopefully, you're not like, oh my god, Joel, I I never want to talk to you again because this is this is some some hard shit, right? Some hard shit to chew on. But I think that after I get this out, I'm going like, you know, this is almost like a form of therapy because I know I can't just like sit down and talk about this stuff with anybody, and I don't have any expectation to somebody to come up and be like, yeah, thank you, thank you so much for sharing your your drug drug tales with me, right? But maybe somebody out there might be like, you know, I've always kind of quietly suffered with like like using a lot of cannabis, and I may, you know, because cannabis has become so popular now, a lot of people I think could be turning to that. And because I've had such a long experience with cannabis so regularly and you know, come to even understand myself more because I've I've used it, but now it's it's kind of changing, it's taking on a different tone. But I I think a lot more people are becoming normalized with it, but it can still be a form of escapism. And I think that's something that I'm still coming to terms with as I'm learning more about myself and doing EMDR and deep work, right? So that story is changing, it's it's definitely shifting. And I think maybe somebody could use this advice, perhaps if they're young and listening, or maybe you're just like, yeah, cannabis isn't my problem, but like maybe you haven't come to that realization that maybe it might be. And you know, I'm I'm a high functioning smoker or whatever. I I have a rules around it. I don't smoke prior to seeing clients. I usually do it in the evening times, unless it's you know Sunday fun day or you know, whatever. But I do have specific rules around it. I I don't just like willy-nilly, like light up every morning, things like that, right? And I do. support the dispensaries here in Ohio. I I yeah I I like to follow the laws, you know, which is a weird thing. You know, wanted to talk about this, like there's this idea or concept that somebody who does who does drugs is a criminal. And it's it's not so much that way. It's you know and I and I honestly think that a lot of people, you know, they're not cr they're not criminals because, you know, I I don't know. Like like I think people some people can do criminal acts because of drugs. You know, people get into stealing and and like I said violence and stuff earlier around some of these substances and then guns get involved. I've never I've never known a reason why guns get involved. I have some friends who've told me that they've had guns pulled on them during situations and circumstances. And it's like what was going on as to why that happened you know it's just like hotshot people just get in their heads and they're like think they're thugs or whatever. And it's crazy. But we you know I I don't even know I don't know why why it has to be that way. You know I I'm I'm you know I don't know I I think that drugs should be legalized like all of them and I know that's a weird thing to say and I know a lot of people have had loved ones pass or have difficult times and things like that. I realize that you know but I think that they should be legal and I think that there should be facilities or places where if people want to explore these things they can totally do it in a very safe way that's that's prepared to handle something that if it may go awry. You know I I think there shouldn't be anything wrong with that because ultimately we're trying to find ourselves in this universe right and drugs and expanding our consciousness whether we do it for that sole purpose of expanding our consciousness or maybe we are just seeking a high being like oh what's this cocaine I hear talk about right you know I I don't know there's there's many different reasons that people do drugs and there I think there's like a spiritualistic aspect to it right like they're trying to find like a higher higher purpose or a higher part of themselves so they will space out sometimes to get that and while you can get these collective universal knowledges right and bring them into your life I think it's it's about that integration and how you use it you know so you know if somebody does go off and they have these big experiences I hope that they are hearing how much how important it is to integrate those and be like okay what kind of meaning can I make from this what am I learning about myself you know in what ways can I help society from my experiences into the unknown or you know things like that. I think if we start to shift that narrative and maybe educate our younger people about it, it won't seem so scary or criminal. You know it it really grinds me to my gears that here in Ohio there has been a recriminalization of cannabis because you know it was fine the way that it was written and you know it it it rule for those of you who don't know in Ohio in 2023 it became voted in to be legalized by this by the you know the people of Ohio uh almost 60% it was 57% legalized here in the state right the people voted good stuff democracy hell yeah fuck yeah keep it going right we won it but unfortunately like our lawmakers and like the the great governor de Wine himself didn't uh appreciate that right he didn't appreciate that the people wanted what they wanted right and he couldn't let it sit he didn't like the way that it was written whatever it was written very well it was written for anyone 21 and up right you can grow your own you can you know go to a dispensary you can go to out of state do whatever you want to do right as long as you have cannabis that's legal that's you know it's good right and basically you know Ohio created a green market right yeah a green market that's what I want to say right and it was good it was really really good and things were good and then all of a sudden like we had this this bill come in just last year and it basically changed a lot of the that dynamic and unfortunately you know it it made it so like you can't share your bud or like do different things like that. It just made it really stupid like really really dumb and you can't go across Michigan borders to buy it but like you know they only allow 300 dispensaries in the state of Ohio they they started going through the the Board of Pharmacy instead of like the Board of Commerce and like they have all these rules like you can't even have like you can't have celebratory signage you know at a dispensary like it can't be fun. The one here that I go to theory theory wellness good shout out to you guys over in Sherwood they have like everything in there is like black and white they have like hardly any art like pretty much nothing at all it's it's like walking into like a black and white film and just being like I'd like to buy my pot today sir you know it's kind of like walking in like that and you they don't have product on display it's it's not beautiful like up in Michigan like it's just really restricted right and there's no need for it you know it should be something fun it should be something okay I do agree that Ohio shouldn't have cannabis billboards I think that's that's super tacky cannabis sells its fucking self right you don't have to have a billboard reminding people that your business exists right but I I understand like you know because there's so many you know and and you want to support all these different businesses sure cool fun but like it it really makes it weird on the highway I'll say like like I love cannabis right I I kind of get a chuckle sometimes when I see them and I'm like that's a clever ad you've got that pop money you can come up with curve clever things but it it's kind of a bad look it really is so I'm glad that ohio doesn't have that but at the same time like I think they need to like loosen their their stuffy ties a little bit and like let their let their white collars breathe because you know there there can be a lot of fun from it. It can be a fun thing and like I said you know I think if our future generation gets more educated I think there'd be as data shows right there's less alcoholism right now and less less consumption of alcohol because because of the cannabis legalization right across the the Americas right here in America and it's a good thing. I think it I think it was moving in a good forward momentum. I'm sad to see the things here in Ohio I think there could be in the future some legalization that would move forward to change the laws back because they they banned like THC drinks and stuff like that. And it's it's so weird because you know like the I kind of feel bad for the alcohol companies I I know I keep going on but I kind of feel bad for the alcohol companies because they they literally changed what they were doing because they were taking a financial market hit, right? Because all these these cannabis consumers who prefer more natural things were switching over from alcohol because they know how bad alcohol is and then they were using cannabis. So all these like alcohol producing companies were like well shit you know we got to come up with these THC drinks. So a lot of them did and they're they're great actually I I've had a couple of them and both only just really a few honestly like out in public places and both times were like awesome. Like I I felt in control of myself that's the thing about cannabis right people who don't do cannabis are like oh my god like you're just like crazy or whatever. Well I actually feel like I can control my mind and I've always felt this so much more on cannabis than I can in fact I'm I'm smoking smoking a joint right now right to be totally right raw with you guys right and well I I I'm not smoking it because I couldn't talk if I was and I don't want to take a break. Obviously I haven't I this is the longest podcast ever and I really can't believe I'm talking this long but that's the thing with when you have a day off you have some admin time you just sit down and pound it out but yeah anyway cannabis right cannabis it's just it's it's it's just one of those things right the the mother's medicine it's it's a it's a nurturing kind of a medicine but I think if we like I said you know if we educate our younger people I think there's going to be a lot less alcohol in the future because people want more natural feelings and so I was also saying you know when like I have more control of my mind than I ever have of alcohol. You know I could be like three joints in and still be pretty darn coherent but if I am like three or four like I I don't drink right so if I was like three or four like liquor drinks in or whatever like I'd be I'd be pretty fucking toasted. And that's that's beyond my level of control that I like right I I like to still be you know I do like to be in my body and sometimes it's hard for me to even let go like if I you know if I if I were to probably dabble in psychedelics sometime again right sometimes it's hard for me to like be like okay I'll I'll do a lot you know I like doing like maybe a little bit I don't know it's it's hard to say like I said I don't really condone it and I don't really do it anymore but if I were to go to a place that is legal and there's places around that are decriminalized right that's that's the cool thing right this this is changing so fast and so rapidly that here in the United States there's places where you can go that it is now decriminalized where people can go and they can just be themselves and like not have to worry about these stupid societal pressures that we have based upon like racism and like control to be honest right the systems that be want us controlled and in these substances that we have access to that are totally natural and have been around for you know generations thousands thousands of years you know in fact every single culture on the un on the globe has a plant that they have used to you know open up their consciousness or to connect with on a spiritual level or something like that to that degree to change their perceptions of reality right and I like that's that's just a fact right that's a cold hard fact every single culture and society on this planet except for the like the the northernmost Inuit just because it's so cold that no no that plants don't grow up there right but they might have some crazy fish that they were eating that that we don't know about who knows right there's some weird stuff out there if you guys are ever curious on diving into a little bit more about learning about psychedelics I really really enjoy an old show a little older now called Hamilton's Pharmacopia he's got some really good material he's more of a science geek he's a chemist and he gets into a lot of like like what compounds are involved in in the science of psychedelics but he really meets some interesting people and what I really love about Hamilton Morris is the fact that he's not afraid to try these psychedelics so he'll be like yeah I'm gonna eat this weird fish and then he'll eat this weird fish and he'll like trip out and like you get to see it and like he's just having this crazy experience but there's a lot of different substances and a lot of interesting people that he meets and yeah you know that I don't know there you know obviously I've gone on for quite a while and you're probably like holy shit you know but this is something that kind of lights me up you know it it does and I'm I'm just interested in the science of it now and the neuropsychology and like I said you know I I'm in interested in pharma psycho psychoneuroimmunology okay and I'm interested in how alternative states of consciousness can shift our self-healing mechanisms. And it's interesting some of the research and things that are being done around psychedelic assisted therapy and how that changes our amygdala how that resets our our fear center how that lowers the limiting beliefs that we have how it changes our stories through doing this work. And I think it's absolutely beautiful and I think that it will be the absolute future of our our mental health for sure but also other aspects of life as well I think I think a lot of us are going to start integrating this and it's interesting right now because we're at a point in time where our consciousness has expanded enough to allow it. And I think that's vital because back in 1963 when a lot of that was starting to become illegal because of all the crazy stories and all the things that were happening like we weren't prepared at that time you know we just had the stuffy ass 50s you know if you think back if you look back at history even movies right we just had the stuffy 50s where they didn't even like dancing you know what I mean like rock and roll was like getting weird and they're like I don't know about this kind of thing you know like that was a weird time back then. And I mean I I'm thinking of like like 1955 back to the future right now right is what I was thinking thinking of and crazy thing right but like like the enchantment of the sea dance you know things like that you know that they just weren't prepared at that time for the things that are happening now. So people now are more like okay cool I can understand that I can wrap my mind around it it's also been a long time since since 1963 so more people are less conditioned to a lot of the propaganda that's been going on okay yeah it's this has been a crazy episode I'm probably gonna wrap this up now and as I was talking gosh there's so many like different avenues I'm like oh man I could talk about that I could talk about that I could talk about that you know it's it's really cool but my voice is kind of getting a little scraggly this has gone on obviously way too long and some of you know I this might be a surprising weird thing but I think this is just really important to get out there and I'm glad that you guys connected on this maybe maybe you'll find some value in it. Maybe you're like holy shit Joel okay or maybe maybe you're just like wow thank you for being so transparent I appreciate your authenticity about it because you know like I said maybe you're you're you're somebody who's curious about it or looking to get into it or maybe you're looking for a psychedelic integration coach to work with. So yeah if this sparks a fancy who knows maybe reach out to me leave a comment leave a review rate this episode and if if you think it's garbage reach out to me and let me know why because I'm quite curious you know I I really really am expressing some vulnerability in this episode so anyway thanks guys and thanks for tuning in and have a marvelous rest of your day and a really good weekend. Bye bye