Episode 2 - John Shultz

Bassist for Chance of Ghosts and The Proffits.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Welcome to behind the lens. I'm James Bowers, your host. Behind the lens is not about success, it's about respect. We believe the most important work people do comes from how they see the world. Not from titles or metrics or outcomes. It does closed down conversations that usually rush past the meeting. If I use the silence as much as the speech, it asks the same questions every time. Behind the lens is not interested in performance. It's interested in honesty. Behind the lens. Perspective before process. Hey everybody, uh I'm here with John Schultz. Thanks for joining me today, John.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Thanks, James.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Alright, so we asked the first five questions all the time for every guest. What was your first show or concert, and what did you think about it afterward?

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Um again, I think I think it might have been Oak Ridge Boys and my folks, but the first one I remember going to with buddies was um, I think it was 1984's Power Slave Iron Maiden at up in Seattle.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Was that was that at the like the Kingdom or at the No, it had to have been the center.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

The center, probably think so, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it twists his sister opened for him. Oh my god. Twist his sister was fun killer, dude. Oh my killer very entertaining. Yeah, I thought they were better than Maiden, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

Who was the lead singer at that time for Maiden?

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Uh Dickinson.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Oh, it was, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very cool. Um and for you that was It was cool. I mean, just the just the um outside of the you know, everybody barfing in the bathrooms because, you know, heavy metal in the 80s. Um just the energy, the people that you know, it was like it was something. It was something that I'd never experienced before. I mean, I was only like what, 13?

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Oh, that's perfect.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

So it was it was like, you know, that that'll fuck your brain up, man. I'll mash your brain up. It's like absolutely you know, ruin you for the rest of your life. So yeah, yeah. And now I don't like I wouldn't go to a big metal show now. It's like now I don't like that many people, you know. It's like too many people, but at the time it was it was amazing.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

What is it about as we get older we kind of feel that way? I know, right? I know. Yeah, then then we get into it, and and it's like, well, why are you in a band? You know?

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Well, you know, yeah, we're playing a bar, so there's not that many people, you know. You know, it might be a different deal if we started playing like you know, big theaters and stuff. I might get a little more nervous about it. But um And you're not you know you're on stage, you're not out in the crowd. So you are not out in the crowd, that is true. You know, when watching other bands at our own shows, I'm like in the back, kind of by the door. You know, you see me door just kind of by the door, you know, just in case I can break loose if I need to, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

I always find a little nook or cranny to stand to where I can escape if I need to. Exactly, exactly. Close to the bathroom often. Always that uh what's something people misunderstand about how you do what you do?

SPEAKER_01 3:01

How I do what I do, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 3:03

I think you know, in uh as a as a as a bass player in two bands, you know, or as a musician, or you know, as somebody who encourages other I don't know, you know, um maybe misunderstand about you as a bass player. If there's anything, maybe there's nothing.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Well, I think I don't know. I mean, I think you know, there's all these jokes about bass players, right? Um you know, like, oh yeah, they're the you've seen the memes, you know. For eighteen dollars a day you can support a uh you know, eighteen dollars a month you can support a bass player. Um I don't know. I think in general I think if people aren't musicians or artists of any kind, I think, creative, they don't understand, man, you need it. You know, it's not like some has woke up, I think I'll fucking do this today. No, I I need it, man. To stay sane. I need music to stay on this world. Even even you know, I started playing guitar when I was 13, badly, poorly, but uh, you know, punk bands. But even before that, I mean I remember hearing the first music I remember hearing that really like like I noticed I had to have been three or four, because I know it was at my old house, it was across the street from LP Brown on the west side before we moved up the road. Um, and it was Jim Crocey, I got a name. My mom used to listen to, you know, that kind of thing. And it hit me, and I still love Jim Croce. And ever since then, it's like I need music. Even when I wasn't in bands and shit like that, I every fucking day. You know, even now, if I'm not listening to a book, for example, at work, I got my earphones and I'm listening to music.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Usually I own shit, like, did I fuck that? You know, but yeah, I'm still listening to music, you know. Um, I need it. I mean, when somebody cancels with Chance of Ghost, you know, they practices get canceled quite often. Um, it bums me the hell out, man. Yeah. It's like it's like a junkie. Like, fuck, I can't damn it. You know what I mean? I do. So yeah, I don't think people understand that. Like, if you're creative, if you're not creative, you don't understand what a creative person is. No, and I think they need it.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

You know, growing up as a kid myself, you know, I uh living over in Germany, I remember uh saving my money on buying one of those combo stereos with the radio, the cassette deck, and the and the and the uh LP player, you know what I mean? And I also had the set of pioneer headphones that went like these that just went around my ears, and I would lay on my in my room listening to albums.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

All I do, yeah. And my mom thought there was something wrong with me. I'm going, there's nothing wrong with me. I paid for this, I want to listen to it, I love it. This music's great, you know. And then that was that, you know, it was all good.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Well, you know, luckily, my mom, she graduated in '62. You know, kind of the height of that, you know, rock and roll right in there, right? Birth of it. And uh, and growing up, I mean she's got I've got them now, but I've got stacks of albums. You know, Ventures and Elvis Presley and all that shit. And I grew up on all that. And my mom always had music going. And so flash forward to, you know, back when the PMRC started fucking about, oh, we're gonna put ratings on albums and all this shit. Remember that in the 80s? I was like, asked my mom, like, what what you know, if they start, you know, if I can't buy these albums, she goes, I'll buy them for you, don't worry about it. You know, she was like, she was like, Yeah, hey man, fuck, you know, music's a thing. So she understood, she was not, she doesn't play an instrument, didn't sing or anything, but she just she knew, you know, she just knew. You know, she's like, Yeah, man, we used to listen to Dwayne Eddie, she'd say, and people thought it was so subversive back then, you know, so dirty and filthy, and they just love that shit. It's like I think mom's got some secrets she ain't telling me, right? Probably. You never know, man. You never know. So yeah, mom's a rock and roller, so yeah. So at least they had that, you know, and because I'd sit all day in my room listening to yes, listening to albums and then cassettes and playing, and she never bitched once, you know.

SPEAKER_02 6:55

So yeah. It's a good feeling as it is. Who or what shaped the way you see things? Uh, not just create creatively, but like as a person. You know, I I had a one of my teachers shaped one way, you know. Yeah, yeah. And but you know, then there's musicians that I have a lot of respect for. Whatever, you know, that type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Yeah, I think well, yeah, there's you know, my dad. Um I can't live up to what he was, but um Yeah, sure, there's musicians and stuff, but I think in general.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

Was he a musician?

SPEAKER_01 7:32

My dad?

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Yeah. No. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

No, he was just my dad. He was a cool cat, you know. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, he was a homicide detective. Um but he was just a good guy, you know, and taught me like, you know, when I was like eleven, he said, or ten or eleven. He said, You ever disrespect a woman, you're in trouble, kid. You know, I'm like, okay, and I remember that shit, you know what I mean? Um so it's just stuff like that. Um but I think in general, who I am as a person, not even and maybe as a musician as well, but just just just punk rock. You know, the this the uh the anti-authoritism, the you know, piss on the government and organization. Yeah, yeah, and the kind of the message behind it, you know what I mean? It's like I can't stand injustice, man. So what I see in the world right now is just drives me up a fucking wall, bro. So you know what I mean? So some of that shit, um, and sometimes it's a little bit too much for people, you know.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

It's almost like we're living in our own private Idaho's right now, you know what I mean? You know, just a coin of a little lyric right there. But it's just it's true. Yeah, and yeah, and I think punk rock is the idea behind punk rock is exactly what we're experiencing now. Yeah, you know, yeah, how we need to express ourselves, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

And and you know, yeah, we hear that also in hip hop and rap and all kinds of things and rock and roll. Any yeah, any of it, right? Yeah, it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Yeah, but it you know, the formative years of you know, 11, 12, 13, 14, it's punk. You know, if I if I started listening to, you know, Boston then or something, I may be a different deal, but I listen to punk rock, so that's yeah, shape me.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

My first three albums were Van Halen, Van Halen, ACDC, Highway to Hell, and Led Zeppelin in Through the Outdoor.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

And the ones you bought yourself? Ones I bought myself. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Because I've been listening to mom's Engelbert Humber Dick and Andy Williams stuff.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

Right?

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

And I was just like, okay, uh no. And there were Elvis Pressure records, which you were cool, you know, I loved it. But then I just started, you know, there were other things, you know. Then Kiss followed, and you know, this is the late 70s, early beginning of the early 80s, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Did you have older brothers and sisters? No, okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

I'm I'm the one.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

I got a younger brother, but you know, and what about yourself? Yeah, I got an older sister who's four years older than me, and and her boyfriends are always a little bit older than her. Uh-huh. So I got I that's how I learned my music. You know, it's like my first album I ever bought myself. I think was well, it was in God with Trust Incorporated, Dead Kennedy's. But then, you know, they got me into like Sabbath, you know, and and priest and stuff like that, you know, I was starting to hear the metal and stuff. Um, and it was a girl, it was a girl get this shit. So I was in sixth grade in the lunchroom, just a dork, you know, because I didn't know. I was looking for a place to sit, because you know you're a nerd. And uh some girl was sitting by at one of those big round tables in the cafeteria, it's Jefferson High School or middle school, and she had like a I I don't know if it was a full Mohawk and like an army jacket with some shit written on the back, you know, yeah, one of these things.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

And she had her headphones on on a fucking Walkman. And I said, Can I sit here? She goes, sure. So I sat there and I said, You know, what are you listening to? She goes, here. She put put the earphones on my head and went, click that thing. It was Nazi punks fuck off. And I was and that was fucked after that, right? Literally the next day I went out and got the album, and that was it.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

I think her name was Heather, I think. Yeah, I remember being a sixth grade, like, I want to marry her, she's awesome. It's like an eighth grader, right? Yeah. Yeah, but that's what that's what turned me on to punk rock.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

So that's cool that she did that for you, though. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

I don't think she realized how it was gonna fuck me up.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

So So, what's the hardest part to staying true to your vision in a world that wants quick results?

SPEAKER_01 11:16

I don't know, because I'm impatient.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

I'm impatient.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

So we almost fit into it in a yeah, in a way.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Um The Prophets, we just recorded Sunday. We went up to Pacific Studios and we saw that.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

That was really cool.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Yeah, with Peter Tychin, and he was he was great, it was a great experience. And we banged through because we just played this song so much that the recording process went really quick. Now I'm like every day, I'm like, any word from Peter? Any we've got any tracks yet? Do we have any tracks yet? Because I I'm getting patient. I want to hear it. You know, I don't know what the hell's going on. Um, whereas other people, I don't know, like chance of ghost is well, you know, we could well, you know, I'm like, no, we just go.

unknown 11:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

I'm impatient.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

You want you want to make it happen now?

SPEAKER_01 11:55

I mean, I got ADD, bro, so I'm like, I need some shit to you know what I mean? Um but I don't know. I mean, just remain well, I think what you know, staying true to my vision. Well, like with Chance of Ghost, me and Dave Bailey started this back in we're a COVID band, so we started in 21. Excuse me. Garage banding back and forth, you know. Then uh 22, we got a s our first singer and drummer. And me and Dave had a we'd sit in my yard 15 feet apart, and you know, he'd drink beer and we'd bullshit for hours about music and our influences and blah blah blah. And so we have an idea of what we want a chance to go to be. We don't want to be a punk band because fuck we're too old it hurts. Right. And I'm in the province now, but that's a whole other story. Again, and it hurts. But um we had a vision like, okay, we like Cocteau Twins and Bow House and The Cure and Jane's addiction and some all these influences we had, it's like, let's try to, you know, make it a little chippier, a little bit more cerebral and blah blah blah. And in a way, I g I think we did. I mean, I I we don't I don't think we have there's too many bands like Chance of Ghost and Olympia right now. It's you know, we're kind of we're kind of different. Um But it's starting to it just evolves, you know. I mean, from the first time we wrote these to now, they're completely different. And now that we got Marathon in the band, we're writing with him, it's it's changed again. You know what I mean? A little bit more not quite as trippy. Well, not true. It's just different. It's just different. So I guess staying true to my vision, I don't know. I'm not trying to, I don't think. I'm just letting shit evolve. Because it ends up being better than I what I wanted to begin with.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

I think you're so it's almost like not setting ex expectations with anything. You're just kind of like, you know, let your vision come as it comes, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Yeah, though there's a point to where even with both bands, it's like if somebody suggests, hey, I've got this, I've got this, you know, guitar line or blah blah like I'm not afraid to say that that's too far outside of right. That's breaking character way too much.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

Do you find that with with either prophets or chancel ghosts?

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Yeah, a little bit. You do. Yeah, I mean a couple times. Not horrible, but there's been a couple times I told Andy, I'm like, I don't know, man. This one sounds a little bit outside of our but then we start listening to it more. It's like, well, okay, maybe, you know, I don't know. There's been a couple times.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Do you feel as though there's communication that exists like that where you can do that? Absolutely. Oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Absolutely, yeah. There's I mean, chance of ghost, man. I mean, you know Marathie and Olivia are just two of the coolest people ever. And it's such a we can literally go into a room and John will just play a little thing. I'm like, what is that? So I'll start hitting somebody. What what is that? He's like, I don't know. Heather will sit down, start and then Dave shows up, and literally we've had we've got a song. We get out the recorder, my phone, we record it, so we don't forget it. And that's how it's that easy, which is really nice. It's very cool. Oh fuck. Because before, you know, it's me, me and Dave send him shit back and forth, and it's like fuck, well pain in the ass, right? I mean, it took took a year to write five songs, right? Now we can do five in a month, you know. John's just, I mean, it's the people, man. The right people, shit. It is the right people. And and Marathiew's Godhead, you know. I mean, he's just a great guy and a great musician, and um, and he's just got a backlog of riffs and sure. He's a wealth of music, absolutely, right? Oh god, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Any song, I think any song, you put a little clip, he's like, I think I I gotta do that. I kind of hate him for it. I kind of want to punch him. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. I got you. And he sits down and plays drums. I'm like, well, Heather's fired, I guess, because you're you're just doing fine. Yeah, I mean, it's like he can play drums too. I mean, it's like, God, you suck. He can play drums, he can play bass, he can play guitar. Yeah, yeah. I went there one time and he's a singer. Yeah, and he's a singer. I went there one time and they kind of worked on one of our one of our new tunes, and so they sent it to me. I'm like, who's playing bass? Oh, John was. I'm like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

Go figure.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Yeah, I told him I was like, dude, you just don't do that again, man. That's classic. Yeah, he's great though. He's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

When it's all stripped away, what do you hope people feel when they experience your work? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Hope you invoke some sort of emotion.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

You know, I mean, that's kind of it.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Just like the other music did for you when you're growing up, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, um, you don't know, you know, people, oh man, I heard Chance of Ghost and I want to start a band. I don't know if that's gonna happen. You never know, though. You never know. You never know. Yeah, you never know, but I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

Um You going to the Oak Ridge boys wasn't it, it was going to Maiden, right, right? So it depends on, I guess, the group you're with, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

True, true. Yeah. Yeah, people have fun. Come to a show, have fun, and and uh, you know, experience a little bit of emotion through it. Um, that's all you could hope. Not everybody's gonna like your shit, you know. Um Yeah, and you don't always know. People say, hey, cool show, bro. Okay, cool, thanks. You know, we we played the Charleston in uh Bremerton, Chance of Ghost was our last show back in September, I think. We don't play very many shows. And uh afterwards, the kids, it was in all ages, the kids came up and boy, they were just they were just happy as fuck, man. You guys, holy shit, they were just it's like right on, you know, the kit kids like you, that's cool. Right. Because you're thinking we're all old, we play this weird music that's kind of reminiscent of the 80s and early 90s, like kids aren't gonna like us, but hey. They're listening to it, but yeah, kids are like, hey, cool. Yeah, we got all you shit downloaded. Like, how'd they do just tonight? Or did they see the poster? Because this is only one place in Bremerton, probably they saw the poster. Download your shit and listen to it and come to the show. I don't know, but that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

One thing I can tell you about Bremerton, there's not much for kids to do up there. So it's great that they could come out and see some live music.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Yeah, there's a lot of goth kids in Bremerton. And they need it. Yeah, they need it, yeah. It was cool. It was cool. It's a cool venue, too. So that's very cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

All right, when did music first stop being something you do and begin something you need?

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Like we talked about before, right from the beginning. Yeah. Right from the beginning. You know what I mean? Um You knew it. They knew it, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then start playing it and you know. Last time I was on stage was with a giant machine at the backstage in like 1998 until 2022 was the l next time I got on stage, right? So it'd been a while. Oh wow. Yeah, it'd been a while. And uh I don't get nervous, strangely enough. It's really weird. Being who I am, I thought I'd get nervous. I get nervous going to the mall, right? Sure. Yeah, people, what the fuck? I don't know what's happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I deal with some anxiety, but get on stage and playing, don't get nervous.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

Let's go back to 98. Who were that was at the backstage? What was that show?

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Uh I can't remember who who they opened for, but Johnny Mo, did he do a Johnny Machine?

SPEAKER_02 18:54

I don't recall that personally.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

A little short, short blonde with spiky hair. He passed away. He he uh was he a local guy?

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Yeah. Well he came in. Oh, he came in.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Yeah, he was in a band with Dave Lichenberg. You know Dave, Gene Pool Lifeguard. Aaron Pierce was a drummer.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

We played with Gene Pool Lifeguard a while back. That was a long time ago.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

A long time ago, yeah, yeah. And uh Yeah, and Johnny played bass. Yeah, so I'd get up and they'd let me get up and play a jam a song with them. And um it was fun as hell. That was fun as hell. You know, back then of course we were just just drunk as a pile of shit. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 19:28

But you know let's get drunk and play music.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Yeah, that's that's what it was. Um Yeah, and I think Johnny too, you know, me me and him would sit in his apartment till three in the morning and play Mr. T experience covers and you know, like screeching weasel and shit, and watch you know, decline of the Western Civilization and just drink beer, you know, and just just talk about a soundtrack. Right, yeah, right, yeah, no shit, no shit. Um and fear, watching fear, and it was it was cool as shit. He introduced me to a lot of like like early pop punk. Which I was in the hardcore, you know. Um, but the early pop punk, like, you know, not early, but um yeah, like you know, Mr. T experience and stuff like that. Um Moral Crux, that kind of thing. Right. So it was it was cool. I mean hanging around Johnny was it was a it was a lesson in punk rock, you know what I mean? And uh and uh yeah, it just gets into you, you know, it just gets into you. Then life happened and you know, I didn't didn't play for a long time. So now you're playing again. Now I'm playing again. Too much probably.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Who or what was the earliest influence that still shows up in your sound today?

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Well, if you listen to if you listen to Chance of Ghost closely enough, you can hear everything. You can hear my cousin who recorded our first couple albums, we played enough song, he could he uh hey, is that how the hell do you know that? I mean it was you know so subtle, right? I mean you can hear everything from Bow House to the Cure to um dead Kennedy's. I mean, you know, sure so um but probably I don't know all of it. I mean, all of it is just early stuff, and that's kind of what we draw upon now. And as a bassist, it's you know, Eric Avery, the first bassist for change addiction, or uh Simon Gallup, the cure, or Simon Raymond from um Cocto Twins. I actually emailed him, I'm like, it's out of the fucking blue. I'm like, hey, your early Cocteau Twins, what effects did you use? Because his tone was dope. Yeah, I wanted that fucking tone, right? Yeah, yeah. And he actually emailed me back. Well, I use a little chorus and blah blah. And you look at my board, and that's what I have. That's very cool. That's my fucking tone, right? Imagine, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

Yeah, so you talk about the kids that come to see you and say everything's cool. Yeah, you have a conversation. One kid, all of a sudden, I'm gonna start playing music. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, hear you.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Here I am, yeah. Yep, yep. And he I couldn't believe he emailed me back. It was great. Um, still have the email too, it's cool. But yeah, I mean that's how I yeah, so all that, all the new stuff, you know. Yeah, little black angels as a newer band or some black angels. That love the black angels. Fuck, they're cool. And they've been around since 2006. I didn't hit them, I didn't get into them until recently. David's like, check this out. I'm like, what? Or it's like uh uh true detective, Sniper the Gates of Heaven, was on that one, what's that? That's interesting. That whole that whole first album's fucking dope. So, you know, there's Black Angels. Yeah, the Black Angels, the album Passover, the M, especially in the song Empire. Oh man. It's just the the real, they're from Austin, they're real psychedelic and the the guitar work. I mean, shoegazes balls. I mean, Christian Bland has literally three or four full pedal boards. I mean, it's it's something, man.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

So he knows how to use them.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Yeah, and he knows how to use them. A lot of people don't. So I tell Dave, hey, you know, for this part, think Black Angels, bro. He's like, all right.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

That's great. Yeah. So the point of reference works for him, right? Yeah, right. He knows.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Well, actually, he's like, oh fuck, okay, fine, John. You know, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Do you remember uh the first song that you wrote that felt right, felt true?

SPEAKER_01 23:03

The first me and Dave wrote the first ten songs, or first albums, pretty much. Except one, maybe two. And they all felt good. You know, they all felt kind of cool. They've all changed since what they were. But I think the first one that really felt that was mostly all me. Dave, of course, a little bit. Then everybody else brought their stuff in, but the main body of it, Asylum. It's one of our newer ones. Well, about a year old. We haven't recorded it yet. Um it's it's kind of it's kind of it's not doomy, but it kind of is. Um it's about schizophrenia and it's kind of doomy, and it feels it feels good. It feels like that's that's that's that's the one. It's probably my favorite song we've we've done.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

That we that we've done, we've got.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And it's you know, for us bass players, it's uh it's not something often that we do, you know, in a sense of um writing these songs. Well, at least I don't, you know. Uh I could create a riff and then go from there. Oh, that's all I do too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I do that, right? So I get it, totally. Yeah. Um I'm just kidding. Uh was there a specific show, rehearsal, or a moment where you realize this could be real? Like either one of the bands that you're in, like you were going, okay, all right, this is feeling right. This is feeling real.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Um I don't know. It had to have been. No, I don't know. Because like every every show is a little bit better.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

You know, it's like so when you first got together with with uh with the prophets, you know, was there was there any was there anxiety and apprehension at first or anything like that? Sure, of course. And yeah, when did you realize that or when did you become comfortable?

SPEAKER_01 25:10

I don't know if I'm comfortable yet. Oh I mean I am. I could be, yeah. You know, Andy said he was in two bands at the time, Division Street and Stuntman. He goes, Well, you know, I'm leaving Division Street and you know, I want to start another thing. You wanna you want to play? I'm like, yeah, sure, let's jam. And Jesse brought Jesse with him as a singer, and um I asked Lisa Koenig, you know, Lisa from um I do from Grizzly, and she was in um Calamity Jane. Right. So you want to play drums? Sure. And it was it started out, it was it was it was it was what's nice, and he brought all the music. He's like, Here's all these songs. Fuck cool. You know, we just start jamming them, right? You know, it's like, oh, you have to sit down and grind one out for six hours, right? Um then then Lisa, you know, she's in Grizzly and she's you know takes care of her mom and stuff, so she's like, Yeah, I just don't got time. So we got Tim. And it wasn't until Ryan we got Ryan. Not that long ago. And gosh, well I can't remember what the first show we had with Ryan is, but I don't know if it was in I don't know if it was the the I Love Olympia Fest or whatever, but um I don't know, you know, the first it might have been it might have been Slims. First time we played Slims. Up north. Yeah. Cool. That the the the the set went pretty flawlessly.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

You know what I mean? Like until then it's like I forget a change or Andy would you know miss a note or something would you know Ryan would drop a stick, you know, something just kind of whatever shit happens, right? So that was the first time it's like, oh, it kind of went smoothly. It's like, oh okay. Now I'm starting to feel it. Now, you know, then of course a girl trouble show, shut up. I mean, that was like okay. We're kind of a cool band, man. You know, that that was a pretty fun night. That was fun.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

Yeah, it was fun to say that was a really good show. I think that you know, McCoy's was pretty packed, and yeah, everybody was having a good time.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

It was a good time, yeah. It was cool. And you know, to open, get to open for girl trouble, forget about it. That's cool. I mean, you know. They're iconic, right? Yeah, absolutely. It'd be like the only other thing I could think of was stuff like, you know, Chance of Ghost got to open for the Black Angels or something. Now we're talking, but you know, I don't think that's gonna happen. Well, you never know. You never know. Never know.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

Never know. How was your relationship with your own uh voice literally or artistic changed over time? A voice could be like, you know, your voice as it relates to the guitar or your voice if you're singing. It doesn't matter. Either way, no, nobody wants me to sing. Um does that include yourself that you nobody wants you to sing? No, I don't want to sing.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Okay, I know my voice wanna be clear. All right. No, I scream too much and smoke too much back in the day. My voice is trashed. Though I've never really tried, and I don't want to. Why? I got Jesse and I got Livia.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

Who wants your your your voice comes through the bass? That's true.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Yeah, well it does, yeah. Yeah. How's it changed? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

Um Do you play the same like you did before? I mean um I think you talk about the differences between the two bands, right? So there must be differences in what you play or no?

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Yeah, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Um two different bands, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Um sometimes state the obvious, it's all right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

You know, you know, profits are you know, garage garage rock, you know. It's like yeah, it's just just grind it out, you know what I mean? Um whereas chance of ghost a little bit more calm, a little more patient, you know what I mean? Which I'm not, you know. I I want to play all the notes. You know what I mean? You know, I play them all, right? You know. Um but learning to like, okay, give some space, you know, let's stop. Let's so that we sit, let let the you know, let the guitarist just do something than more dramatic when the bass kicks back in. Okay, and so I'm kind of learning that, you know. Um and of course, yeah, the more you play, the better you get. The more yeah, the more you experiment and like, oh, okay. Now I can do those runs where, you know, two years ago I couldn't do that. All right, you know, I don't have to play all the notes, but I can do this. But I can do this, yeah, exactly. Yeah, so yeah, it's kind of funny, you know, because like with the prophets, we love the key of E, bro. Sure. I mean, it's like the key, right? And so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

Is it an E or an E flat? Because most people, I mean, I like playing an E flat. I mean, that's that's kind of the way, but you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

No, it's it's usually all E. Yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah. And uh, which is fine, sure, which is fine. But you kind of end up going over the same notes, you know what I mean? Because let's be honest, I mean, it's all been done. It's all been done, right? You know what I mean? Everything's been done. All the notes and chords and and scales you've done, it's already been done. It's just gotta do it a different way. So it's like, okay, you know, I mean, there's a song with the prophets that it's the same chord progression as one we in Chance of Ghost. It's like, well, it's the same goddamn notes here, but it's different, of course, right? Right. Yeah, it's it's a yeah, what it is. The day the music times, right?

SPEAKER_02 30:16

I mean, everything's been done, and what now we gotta do versions of it, right? Exactly, and that's it. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Nothing wrong with that. No, uh, no. You just gotta do it differently, I guess. You know, I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

So um when you write, what usually comes first? You know, um lyrics, melody, rhythm, feeling.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

Melody, feeling.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Yeah. Um like I said, Andrew would bring bring full-on songs, full-on riffs, full-on songs on the guitar. Then we just start slapping shit to it. Right. You know, and like, where yeah, and I just find where the base where the note root notes are and go from there. Got it. Um most of the time, you know. Um, and if I write a song, it's always it's always a bass lick. That's what it is. I mean, because I'm a bassist, that's all I'm gonna do, right? Um Well, chance of ghosts, it's yeah, it's all it's all about the the the melody and the rhythm, because that's what happens. You know, John will start playing something, or I'll play a little bass line and he'll start adding stuff to it, then all of a sudden Dave starts adding stuff to it. Whereas I mean both singers, you know, uh Olivia and and and Jesse were both literally can sit there and just start writing lyrics.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

As we're farting around. And all of a sudden they got some lyrics. It's like, okay, you know, of course it takes a drummer a couple minutes to what do I want to do here, you know? And but yeah, it usually starts with um with that. Though early stuff with Chance of Ghosts was a feeling because it's like this is what I want to sound like. You know, I mean like okay, I've got this vision in my head of which is a bad way to do it because it can never it never happens, it never is as good as you think it can be. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, I want it to sound like that part in that bauhaus song, or I want to sound like that with all the fucking reverb and all this stuff, and it never works out. You know what I mean? It never works out, it never has, right? Maybe one of these days it will, but but yeah, it's usually just a lick or a rhythm, and uh yeah, it kind of builds from there.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

How do you know when a song is um is finished versus paused?

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Um with the prophets when Andy says it's done. You know, it's like I said, where do you want to stop? Right here. That's it. Okay, perfect. Whereas Stanza Ghost, you know, it's weird because all the original stuff from 2021, man, that me and Dave wrote, we're still fucking with it. Oh, you're still like building on it?

SPEAKER_02 32:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Oh, gotcha. It's it's shit's all recorded, it's down. Right. But you know, it's you know, it starts getting boring playing the same fucking thing. Well, I think maybe we should add this. You know, put a break here, or do this and have a little guitar break, or okay, let's do that. Literally, I mean, if we're a couple months ago, it's like, okay, let's take a day, everybody pick a song, we're one practice, like we're gonna go through one song and find some cool tricks. Yeah, it's all about the tricks, sure. The pauses, the fucking whatever, right? The stops. And so if we did that, like, okay, take again, okay, we'll add this. And I changed my baseline a little bit on it, and Dave added a thing, it's like, it's not a different song, it's just got some cool stuff in it.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

So I don't know. I don't know. I think the newer ones are a little bit better because now you got a better vision of what you want to do. It's like, okay, it feels a bit better to end it right here. Yeah. Whereas the early stuff, it's like, well, we could have done that better, right? Because it's the first shit you've done. It's the first stuff we've done. It's like the better you get, you look back, and I can do that better. You know what? That's what you gotta just eventually say, fuck it, it's done. And there's songs we don't play anymore. There's songs we don't play anymore because a couple of them I hate. There's I wrote the fucking things. I don't like them. A couple we just don't do. Um that's classic. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe we'll break them out again one of these days, but fucking hate this song. I'm gonna play it anyway. Yeah, yeah. Well, every time I play it, I'm like, do we have to that play? I'm like, well, it's not that bad. Because everybody else seems to like it. I'm like, okay, fine, I don't know. But we haven't put it in the set for a long time. Thank God.

SPEAKER_02 34:14

So what's what's harder for you? Writing, recording, or performing the song live?

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Writing.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

Writing.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:20

Okay, tell me about that.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

Recording was is fun. Sure. And you can stop and love being in the studio, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

Yeah. I mean, with the first time with chance, it was kind of in our jam space, mobile, my cousin did it, and it was it was cool. It was fun because it was comfortable. But being in a real studio is cool as shit. I mean, it and I'm not saying my cousin's not a real engineer, he's great. Um Peter was literally like, hey man, can I fix that? Okay, I'll cue it up. Play that. What? Like three notes is all he played. Okay, week geek, and it's fixed that quick. It's like, oh shit. It was we can move on. We don't have to worry I don't have to worry about it.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

Like next week. Hey, can I come up and redo that shit? Yeah. It's done. It was really enjoyable. And and playing live, that's the dig that's the gig, isn't it? Right? And that's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

That's the point, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:08

That's the point. Yeah. Yeah, it's fun. It's fun to get out there and fucking, you know, in a hot, sweaty fucking club and look at people out there dancing and drinking and it's fun as shit. I mean, that's as cool as shit.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

So when it comes when it when it comes to playing playing live, what do you practice that people don't see?

SPEAKER_01 35:28

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 35:29

Well, I think that, you know, a as a musician, right? Um you you know you're gonna get on stage, you know you're gonna perform. Is there anything you practice personally or with an instrument, or you know, um you you had already talked about how your anxiety sometimes plays in. Is there anything you practice before you get on stage or anything like that? Or or the the rush of the idea is is got you going, and that's and that does that kind of must flip your mindset then at that point, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I yeah, I don't practice anything, uh uh. Like you know, stage moves and shit.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

No.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Um sorry, that that's uh that's a good one. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

I should try not to. You don't want to look like, you know, I've never practiced stage moves, so I had to think that was kind of fun. You don't you don't want to look like poison, you know? It's like god damn, or Motley Crue doing the cheesy cheese dick stage moves. Um so no, I don't practice anything as far as live because as you know, all the stages we play around here are so fucking small. You ain't moving around much. Maybe this is a this would be a huge stage. So yeah, you don't got a whole lot of room to move around, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:35

So there's not much room in McCoy's when we, you know, when you're out there and even even other places downtown Olympia, but it's really nice to have venues. But I get what you're saying. There's not like much you practice.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Not much you do, no, huh? Um yeah, I though when I'm on well, actually, you know what I do too? It's like I feel like I I stare at my base too much, you know, shoe gaze too much at the board and fucking, you know, I look down.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

It's like I feel like so you practice not doing that.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Yeah, I kind of practice looking up and like, you know, I don't look up and stare at people in the crowd, but kind of look up over their heads. Yeah, try to, like Andy said, well, I gotta I gotta do more, have more stage presence because he's got anxiety too, like the rest of it. I feel like I'm boring. And I kind of feel the same way because I'm looking at my shit all the time. Looking, I'm not looking, you know, I feel like I want to try to connect with the crowd a bit more, like look out and say, hey, you know, see somebody I know and give them a wink or uh flip them off or something, you know, just kind of interact with the crowd a little bit as opposed to just I'm gonna stare at my fucking board in my finger.

SPEAKER_02 37:33

Right, well exactly. But I I get it, but sometimes maybe that's just who you are. Yeah, that's what you do, you know. Um you're the quiet bass player, you know, or well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

I mean when chance of ghosts, absolutely. I can I can stare because I'm in the middle, back next behind Olivia next to the drummer.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

You know, that's that's where that's fine.

SPEAKER_02 37:52

That's a standard positioning of a bass player, I think, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:54

But there's only four of us in the profits, and I'm right up front. It's like, I gotta do something, don't I? Do I have to do something? I don't know. You know, I don't do much.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

Not occasionally to somebody in the front row.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Yeah, yeah, kick them or, you know, I'm not gonna say vicious, piss on them and kick them in the face. Yeah, I'm not gonna do any of that. But I feel like, you know, you kind of want to connect with the crowd a little bit. You don't want to just get up there and you know, be like my bloody Valentine stare at your fucking board and just do not even look at the crowd. It's like it's gonna fucking boring you.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

It could be in between songs too, you know. Yeah, true, yeah, true.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

But yeah, but I don't do much talking. I don't talk on stage either, so it's like I don't know. I don't know, maybe it doesn't matter. I don't know. I just feel like I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

So what's what's one what's one rule that you broke that um has made your music better?

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Rule whose rules? General rules or my own rules?

SPEAKER_02 38:47

Uh it could be either. I mean, something maybe personally, you you just said, you know, I'm gonna break this rule. Um and and like maybe you're the rule maybe it's not necessarily a rule, but you know, oh I've never listened to that band. And I don't I uh okay, you're I'm gonna listen to okay, I'll listen to this. You know, but maybe that's something like it. I don't know. Or or maybe it is a rule that you can think of. You know, like a rule of thumb, you don't do this, you don't do well, I'm gonna no, I am gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

Well, I think maybe like I was talking early about breaking character.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

You know what I mean? Like this is the vision that I want this band to be. And it's still our vision. But I think of it as a like a like a straight line. And you just kind of and there's a like a a zigzaggy line over the top of it. You know, so you're kind of in there, but you kind of deviate from that from your original vision, that straight line. You kind of just kind of pass over it a few times. You're still in the still in the hunt. So I guess not being so strict about what my vision was. Right. You know what I mean? It's like, okay, yeah, there's other people in the band. Let them have a say. Like John brings a whole different vibe, right? Yep. And it's like, and you're gonna listen to John Merithew. I mean, you know, because he's John and he he's got a lot of experience, he's got a lot of great ideas, and he's a fucking talented musician. So you're gonna listen to what he wants to do. It's like, okay. But then again, I don't think I've done it yet, but if there was something that's really I wouldn't feel bad about saying, John, I don't know, man, that's just not working. I've never had to do it yet, but I mean, like Dave's always said, it's it's a real comfortable, no fighting, no arguing, you know, it's just a real comfortable, which is really bizarre, right? Real comfortable. We all get along great, we all enjoy each other's company, we all write real well together. It's really something strange, right? Because you hear about bands always pissing and moaning and fighting and blah blah blah. Right. Um, so yeah, I mean so I wouldn't have a problem with, you know, John. I don't know, man. He'd be like, all right. But I mean, you have to do that, of course. Um, because we're still right in that hunt, but um breaking my own rules, yeah, kind of getting letting my letting us get outside of that of that character that we wanted to build.

SPEAKER_02 41:05

I think what I think about when you the the the picture I'm getting is uh like a tree growing, you know. You the branches get bigger at the bottom as you age, but there's smaller branches as you're growing, right? And you keep moving along with that. You know, I don't know, might be a silly analogy, but that's what I started to picture when you talked about it.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

Yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:24

Oh, that's cool. Yeah, I like that. Um what makes that type of collaboration work and what quietly kills it?

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Everybody being open to it is what makes it work, you know. Um and what will kill it is somebody having a strict like authoritarian fucking vision of it, you know, like nope, we're not doing that fucking song because that deviates from what we want to do. That's what I was just saying. If you know me or Dave were like, no fucking way we're not doing that goddamn song because it's just too far outside of our shit, then you start hurting people's feelings. Then they'll feel like they've got a say in the band, right? You know, it's like you know, you bring people into a band because you want to make play music with them. We didn't hire them.

SPEAKER_02 42:16

No, they all have to have a voice or part of the band, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Yeah. Or you just show up and play, we'll pay it and get the fuck out. Right. You know, like hired guns. If that's what you want to do, that's fine. Like nine inch nails, for example. I think that's kind of how Trent Resiern does it. It's his fucking band. Yeah. He just brings people in to play the shit, but you better play what he wants. Those kind of bands, I think there's, you know, plenty of bands like that. That's not what if that's what if that's what you want to do, then do it. Right. But you know, if you're gonna be in a band with other people, you gotta expect everybody's opinions and you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. We one of the newer songs Chancer Ghost is working on is a song that Olivia did, recorded on her first album, second high school. And it's fun. Yeah, yeah. And it was and she was playing it one day when it came in. I was like, that's fucking kind of cool. And they're like, You got her album. She gave us a CD. I'm like, yeah. So the next week I wasn't there, so they played it and recorded it. And I was like, I don't know. Maybe it's but we're gonna do them like it's too uh again, it's too far outside of our you know what I mean? Then I was listening to them like, it's actually not. It's actually really not.

SPEAKER_02 43:26

You know, it's like so maybe that's kind of a rule for you is that you allow that to come in. You know, if we go back to the rule question, it's just like in your brain, it's like, you know, I need to be open to this. Yeah, absolutely. And I need to listen to it more than once or twice. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I I feel that way too.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

And I'm not, you know, here's the deal. I mean, I haven't been in a million bands like Marathie has. I mean, he's been in every band in town. So I'm not like I'm not the guy, I'm not, you know, Rick Rubin, or this is how the shit's gotta go. Right. No, I'm I'm new. I'm I'm still new. It's like, let's do it all, you know. But I mean Our cover crash, like by the primitive, it's just a fucking three chord pop song. It's all it is. I was like, What? And I heard it. Actually, uh Heather sent it to me. And I was like, She's like, cover with a little question mark. And I listened to him like, fuck yeah. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:15

But you never would have thought about it. But then we played the first time we played it, it was up at I'm thinking live. We played it up in Bremerton and the band we were playing with were friends of mine. And uh they're like, dude, that was a perfect song for you guys. Wait, it's so poppy, but it just worked out so good. So it's like you can't I can't discount anything. Right. It's like is Olivia's song too mellow and too ethereal? Is it too no? Because then you throw the ghosts in it, John and Dave and me, and it turns into a whole different thing.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

Sure does. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 44:47

So it's like I can't discount anything, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 44:49

Well, when you talk about that and you talk about being in a band, does it do you feel more honest alone or inside of a band? Inside of a band, yeah. I think I think so.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

Yeah, yeah. Um I don't know. I mean, I probably feel just as honest by myself if that's what I wanted to do. You know, get the drum machine, get the get the computer and do my own shit.

SPEAKER_02 45:10

And then pay for anybody else's ED to come in, right? I mean, I get it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

I can find some studio guys, but all my sh you know, all all I'm gonna write everything. Yeah, my cousin does that with a couple of his projects. He's been in bands too, Randall. He recorded this. He's been in a he was in a band, a couple bands as well, but he's like, Yeah, I don't want to play live and I'll be in a band anymore. So he just does his own stuff. Right. Burn for the moon, and he and he high guys come and play on the record, but a lot of stuff he just does it by himself. And he doesn't have to answer anybody. And that's cool. I suppose that's cool too. He wants to record and play music and he's what he does. He records so he records all his own shit and he programs the drums and plays the bass and plays guitar and sings and does all the things, and that's what you want to do. Cool. If that's honest for you, cool. I I don't know if I'm smart enough to do that. If I've got it's like, can I sit down and I play three chord punk on a guitar? Can I write the shit John can on the card? No fucking way.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

Right.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

Because I don't know the instrument like John does. Well, we know our limitations, right? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 46:11

And that's that's where it's at.

SPEAKER_01 46:12

Uh I mean I could do that where you can do that. I could do I could do rhythm on the guitar, but all the cool little floaty little licks and stuff that John and Dave pull off. I just I I couldn't figure that out. So my music would be if I did it myself, it'd be boring as fuck. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 46:27

So I'm the same way. I'm a great bass player. I'll do that. That's what I'm gonna do. Nothing. I'm not even a great bass player, I'm just a bass player.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

I'm I'm okay-ish.

SPEAKER_02 46:35

Yeah, I gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

Um there's you know, you know, when you're when you what role does listening play um in your best performances? I guess.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

Oh, you have to. I mean you have to. Um because I'll tell you, there's not a show that goes by I don't screw something, I don't miss a note or miss a change or thump something. Uh-huh. It just happens. And you can hear it more with the bass player, because you know, like Dave and John, they're floating and they're doing I don't know if they play the same shit twice, and it works because they're just awesome.

SPEAKER_00 47:09

Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

Um so you really can't hear if they screw up unless they go completely out of ski, you know, but nobody ever does. So I gotta listen I gotta listen to everybody.

SPEAKER_02 47:21

Yeah, your half step is gonna be noticeable.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I listen to Heather, you know, to get we listen to each other. Um I don't need to hear the guitars. I really don't.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

No, because there's a trust level there. You know they're gonna do what they're gonna do, right?

SPEAKER_01 47:36

You gotta trust each other. And I don't I mean I hear 'em because I'm right next to John Zamp. I can hear him, but I don't need to. I want to hear the drums and I want to hear Olivia.

SPEAKER_02 47:44

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 47:45

Because I kinda cue off Olivia sometimes. You know, and that's that's it. I mean I can hear I can hear everybody, but I try to tune them out. Yeah, it's like, you know, when it gets down to it, I gotta w w what's Heather doing? Okay, I gotta follow her. And there's songs that literally the parts of them could you could just drag them out and let them go for ten minutes.

SPEAKER_02 48:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

And then when Olivia starts, okay, then we got now we got eight bars before this part and that part. But there's parts that can just float on and on and on and on and on.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

I'm not counting. Because who knows how long to go. She's good about keeping them, you know, where but they could go on. I don't count.

unknown 48:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:19

I don't count. So I listen to her and start singing, okay, here we go.

SPEAKER_02 48:21

Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

You know, literally, you know, yeah. Sometimes Heather, like during solos and stuff, she'll do something, then she'll just do a little extra. Okay, the change is coming. So I gotta hear them too. That's it. You know, that's that's that's pretty much it. And I feel bad because it's weird because even in practice, I'm listening to Olivia and Heather. When we record something, I get home and I put my head my earbuds in, I listen to, you know, on just an iPhone, you know, the little the fucking whatever it's called. It's actually pretty good. It records actually pretty well. And I'll get in there and start listening. I'm like, Jesus, John's doing some cool shit and listen to what Dave's doing. What the hell? You know, it's like I don't hear him during practice until I get to it later. It's like, damn. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty wild.

SPEAKER_02 49:06

So with that who um who has earned your trust musically and why?

SPEAKER_01 49:13

As far as who I play with?

SPEAKER_02 49:14

Could be, yeah. I think so. I think that's a big part of it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

All of them.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

I mean all of them. Why would you say that? Because I feel like it's weird at first. I didn't. I didn't trust. You know what I mean? I don't know what they would say, but it's like these are our songs we wrote. And this is what I want to sound like, and they better not fuck something up. Singer or drummer, it's like, oh fuck, you know. But nobody ever did. I mean, you know, we've changed we've changed lineups a couple of times. Um you know, I trust everybody.

SPEAKER_02 49:53

I mean, I think there's a there's there's something that definitely goes on when you go in on live and you're playing live in front of somebody. Yeah. And very the first time you're like on, okay, we're gonna go do this. All right, does everybody have everything down? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do I have everything down? Yeah, right. Yeah. Are we really doing this? Yeah, right. Yep. You know, and that that's a but then, you know, the the the trust I think in the in the band, uh, you know, and the the music, the musicians that I played with in the past, the bands, and it's that way, you know. You just kind of like, oh no, we got this. Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Yeah, you got to. I mean, once you got on stage, you you know, it's not like a studio. You fucked up, I'll do it again. You're on stage, like, well, it's this is what it is, man.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

Can we just start over? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

Which which I'm not, you know, if this if we start a song goofy, I'm not afraid to stop and start over and make a laugh of it. Okay, I'll just go.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

Well, I think you have to, and then if if everybody else is on the same page, we giggle about it and we go on, yeah, yeah. I mean, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

Yeah, I mean, Heather will, you know, if she'll start something there, she'll stop like, okay, let's let's do that again. Okay, cool. But I I trust everybody, you know. It's um you gotta. You gotta. Well, it's not gonna be fun. If you're worried about that guy over there's gonna fuck up, you know. John Mirathew, he better get that right. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, Jesus Christ, of course he's got it, right? And even if he doesn't, it's gonna be cool. So whatever, you know. And that's what I like about live music, man. I'd like to hear the fuck ups. You know, that's what if I wanted to hear it perfect, I'd stay at home and listen to the record. I'm gonna go to the show and I want to hear the goof ups or the improvs and stuff, you know what I mean? That's what makes it cool.

SPEAKER_02 51:28

What makes the local scene unique? Whether whether it's here in Oli or it's in the Pacific Northwest. Well, I mean, I I'm honestly, I think from your perspective, what makes the local scene in Olympia or the Pacific Northwest unique?

SPEAKER_01 51:47

I don't know if it honestly, I don't know if any if any scene's unique. Uh you know, I mean, unique in because it's a local scene. There's people playing rock and roll, there's people playing punk rock, there's people playing metal, there's people playing whatever.

SPEAKER_02 52:03

Garage, there's there's uniqueness in itself, I guess, right? I mean, you have all these different, it's not like just one type of music.

SPEAKER_01 52:09

But I think that's the case anywhere. I mean, you go to Nashville, it's not all country. There's punk bands there, there's metal bands there. You know what I mean? So I mean think I think anywhere. And I think, I think, let's be honest, I think Olivia, uh Olivia, Olympia gets a little big-headed, you know, about our scene. You know what I mean? Like, oh, you know, hey, we we have Fitz Depression and Bikini Kill, check us out, bro. Right. Well, yeah, it's cool as fuck, right? Nirvana's here for a while, yeah. But you know, right. I mean, Chapel Hill, Austin, they all the same fucking thing. You know what I mean? It's like we can't. Minneapolis.

SPEAKER_02 52:42

I mean, yeah, exactly. Washington, DC, just pick it, right?

SPEAKER_01 52:47

Chicago or whatever, and there's always there's always there's always a cool scene, cool shit coming out of it. I think, and I think that's fine. I mean, people in that scene, we're proud of it. And we should be, because it's cool. It's our scene, goddamn it, and it's cool.

SPEAKER_02 52:59

So I can say I want to I want to do this from the perspective of being an audience member of both Tianicos and the Prophets. And as it relates to this question I'm asking, is that um what I don't think is happening is somebody's a band's trying to be something from the past. Everybody's unique in that sense. I think I think every the bands that we're hearing now are unique because they're musicians and they play their style of music and what they want to play. Yeah, they're not trapping trying to copy anything or anything like that, you know. There's still the stigmata that exists of Olympia Washington and all of the past bands, right? Yeah, and the history, and that's wonderful. That history's great. Seeing the Melvins play down Underground Pop Festival, what was it called? I can't remember what it's called, but it was they were down at the the lake down there just on the grass. Yeah. You know, that's that's something that's you know etched in my brain, right?

SPEAKER_01 53:55

Yeah, um I think Nirvana and Soundgarden played um Lake Fair. I think both of them played Lake Fair at one time.

SPEAKER_02 54:01

It's like what crazy stuff, man. You know, we we saw some really good stuff, but I guess what I'm saying is this uh maybe one thing for me that's unique about Olympia is that we keep I think we keep pumping out bands that that play good music and write good music.

unknown 54:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:20

And for what it is, you know. I don't know if we'll ever see a heyday of what we saw, but yeah, who knows, right?

SPEAKER_01 54:27

Who knows, yeah. Who knows?

SPEAKER_02 54:28

But I don't think anybody's shying away from at least trying to become something.

SPEAKER_01 54:34

Well, because it's all the same old guys. It is. That's what dressed. There's some young bands coming up. Yeah, yeah, there's some young bands coming up. They're really impressive. Have you seen the gobs yet? No, I have not. Oh shit. They're young dudes. Holy crap.

SPEAKER_02 54:47

All right.

SPEAKER_01 54:48

You gotta go check them out, dude. Yeah. All right, that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 54:50

Little plug right there.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

I like that.

SPEAKER_02 54:51

Yeah, yeah. Um, you know, do you feel like you're carrying a sound forward or pushing against one with what you guys do in either one of the bands? It kind of reverts back to what I was saying that you know we're you're you're playing music now and you have a whole history of what you've listened to and what you've played in the past, too.

SPEAKER_01 55:17

Um I don't think we're pushing against it. Because I mean, you know, we consciously thought of here's are my influences and here's what I want us to sound like. I don't think we're pushing against it, you know. Um kind of embracing it, and you know, making it hopefully making it our own. Um you know, the prophets, it's it's a simple garage rock, man. It's you know, and embracing that, you know, uh Andy's one of Andy's first bands was the Archvillains back in the 90s, and that was just filthy garage rock too, you know, and he's like, I want to do that again. Okay, here we are, you know. Right. Um it's gonna come around again, you know. Um think we're pushing against anything. I don't think we're pushing against anything at all. If we're pushing against anything, I think we're pushing against those old thoughts of the Olympia, what Olympia used to be. You know what I mean? It's like, we're not that, we're not that. That was that was awesome, and that was that's done. Um you still get a little bit of that. I mean, uh John was C average. I mean, he and he brings some of that some of that guitar playing and that energy to chance of ghost because that's who he is. That's right. You know, but we're not trying to be another five-piece fucking C average, we're not doing that, right? You know what I mean? So you still get that. So I don't think we're pushing against anything. We're kind of embracing all of it. I think. I hope, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:37

It's uh I think you are, yeah. Um what's a show that you played that feels more important now than it did that night?

SPEAKER_01 56:52

Important. I don't know if in here like these are really important. Like, I don't know. I mean, I can think of think back like you look at like uh the Gulf War protest show Nirvana did with fit uh fits of depression at Evergreen. At the time we were just like, sweet, getting drunk, hey, sweet, right on. Now you look back and like wow, okay. Okay so I don't know, you know. I don't think I don't I don't think any show we've played has been that important. You know what I mean? Sure. Um important as a band. I mean the girl trouble show. It's like, hey, that was we got to open for girl trouble. That was cool, but uh I mean, is it important? Like people are gonna look back and remember that girl trouble? Remember that Prophet show, the girl no one's gonna do that.

SPEAKER_02 57:36

But for you, for us, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:37

It's like it was really cool, absolutely. You know, when we played with Messer Chops up at um El Core Zone, it's like wow, wow, that was cool too. Is it an important show? No, it's not like the last Messer Chupp show ever we got to play. No, it's not that, but it was cool. I mean, important to us. Like, wow, wow, we got to play our core zone. I gotta stay stand on the same stage that Mother Love Bone did. And that was fun cool, but important? I don't know if it's important. Right, right. You know, I don't know. And Chance of Ghost, I don't know if there's anything really important. There have been some cool and fun ones, but yeah, I don't know. Important? I don't know. Important in our own mind, I guess. Yeah, might be. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:16

Uh what do you wish outsiders understood about your scene? The scene like here in Ole or the Pacific Northwest.

SPEAKER_01 58:23

I like the fact that how supportive the scene is. Yeah. You know, I mean, I there's no band that I can think of that we go like, uh fuck them. We didn't fuck them, we're not playing with them. You know, there's none of that animosity that I see, at least. I mean we don't have any towards anybody, and it always feels very supportive. I mean, you know. Um we played a show at the crypt, Prophets did a while back, a month or so ago. And it was pretty slim. There's not a lot of people there. And I don't know if I think it I don't think it was um, was it on Thursday or Sunday? It was kind of an off day, I think.

SPEAKER_00 59:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 59:00

And it's like, well, this is kind of this sucks, man. There's not a lot of people here. Let's play it out. Well, Jesse went down to the mortuary where another where were some friends with Electric Sweats and Storm Boy were playing. And uh she goes, Hey, you guys are done, not a lot of people in the crypt, you want to come down. Fuck, they all came down. You know, the guys in Storm Boy and Electric Sweats came down and so and that's cool. They're like they were dancing around and hooting and hollering. It was fucking fun. One of the funner shows we played.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:26

Yeah, it's because the friends show up, you know, it's like show up to support each other, you know. And uh, you know, I've gone down to the you know, crypt on a Tuesday to see Grizzly. And, you know, it's like, you know, you gotta do that. It's fun. I think that's I don't know, I don't know. Maybe other scenes are that that way too. Could be. You know, I don't know about big cities like Seattle and shit, but you know, maybe smaller, like Chapel Hill, maybe you know, those those bands do the same thing. I don't know, because I don't seen those scenes, but um that's what I like about Olympia, you know. We all kind of know each other, and we've all been around, and half of everybody's played with other people in those bands. I was like, you know, we kind of know each other, right? So and it's supportive, that's what I like about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:03

What do people misunderstand about being a working musician?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:08

We need it. People think, I think a lot of people look at it and say, Oh, they're just you know, trying to be rock star, they're just living some fucking juvenile dream or some, oh whatever, they just want to, you know. No, we need it. We need to play, we need to create, we need to play. Yeah. Or I'm just gonna go home and eat my own ass. Because I, you know, it's like, what are you gonna do? I just I'd be a miserable prick, you know, if I couldn't play music, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:34

Your outlet's not there, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:36

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I think that's probably the biggest misunderstanding.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:39

How do you protect creativity when life gets heavy?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:44

Oh, it's i i I don't even have to try. Uh-huh. You know, when it gets heavy, that's when I do it more. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because it after dinner, anything that's going on ain't gonna get done at night.

unknown 1:00:59

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:59

I'm gonna go out in my studio and play some bass, listen to some music, and play some bass. You know? Well gosh, you know, uh, this is happening, you know, like last year my mom, my mom was in the hospital for some, you know, some dementia dementia type things for about a month and you know, I couldn't do anything. You know, it was bugging me. I was uh sad about it, I was worrying about stuff. I couldn't do anything, I'm not a doctor. So I gotta go and fucking play. I gotta go play, I gotta do things, you know what I mean, to keep myself sane, you know what I mean? Um so yeah, when life gets heavy, that's that's when I do more. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do. Yeah, if things all light and happy, it's like, oh well, let's go wander around the mall and hang giggle. No. You know what I mean? So I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:45

Has talking about music, you know, like maybe like with this or other interviews you've done and things, or or even socially uh changed how you create it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:57

I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I guess it depends on who you're talking to, I suppose. Or what you're talking about. I suppose it could. I don't know. I mean, I suppose like okay, for example, uh I work with a guy. He used to be the guitarist in Chance of Ghost, Patrick Leonard. Great guy, I work with him. And uh yesterday we were talking about, he's like, Yeah, I got this Fender volume pedal, and you know, I was kind of doing this with it and I was doing that. I'm like, that's what I that's what I was thinking about a couple weeks ago. I was like, there's a couple songs I need to, you know, tone the bass down a little bit, not be so fucking aggressive with him. Like, maybe that's what I you know, so little shit like that, maybe. Yeah. Like, okay. Then I started looking up, you know, on company time, looking up volume pedals. How much are those? You know what I mean? So, I mean, maybe a little bit like that, you know. Somebody says something about, you know, a pedal or an effect or uh, you know, something they do, or you know, maybe something like that, but I don't know if like, you know, like, oh, now I gotta change the entire way I write songs. Right, right. Not like that, but you know, just a little little things maybe, you know, like that's a good idea. I'm gonna try that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:12

Go with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:12

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:14

Uh, what still excites you about playing live?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:18

Oh, just the energy. Just the people, the energy. Fun as shit. I just love playing live. I love playing live. It's just fun. You know, it's just like I said, it's like I said before, it's just fun. Seeing the people dancing around and, you know, yeah, it's just cool. It's cool. Yeah, I I uh while you do it. I mean, you know, that's right. I mean, I suppose there's some guys that all they want to do is write and record because you can do a lot of recording and make some cool shit, and that's cool. You know, like Beatles did after, you know, in the 70s, they didn't.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:53

Randall.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:54

Yeah. Yeah. My cousin. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:55

Your cousin just kind of likes to do his own thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:57

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:58

But he doesn't want to do the live anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:59

He didn't want to do the live anymore. How come? He's like, I just don't want to do it. I'm tired of carrying around a fucking heavy guitar, it hurts my neck, I'm just done with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:06

You know, uh, the world's got a lot of Danny Elfmans, you know, writes music soundtracks, you know. And it was in a great band. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:12

Uh Truman would do this instead. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I think Mark Mothersbaugh from Devo does that same thing. He does a lot of stuff too. A lot of stuff like that, yeah. What advice would you give someone who doubts they belong in music?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:26

Do it. Do it. Just do it. Yeah. Bullshit. Don't belong in music. Fuck off. I mean, there's if you want to do it, you do it. I mean, there's no, you know, I'm no fucking, I'm no giddy lee, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:41

Find your gas pedal, man. Which one is it? Which one is it? Yeah. What are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:44

Yeah, I'm I like saying I'm no fucking I'm no Getty Lee or fucking geezer butler. I'm not I'm not a great bassist. I hold it down so my guitars can shine. That's what I do. That's my jam. And I'm okay with that. You know, it's like, there you go. Just do it. I mean, there's so much and people that what's cool is if if if you don't know how to play an instrument, for example, and you say, I'm gonna start making music. You got computers, you got stuff you can do, you got stuff you can pre-program, drum machines, and you're not you haven't thought about the rules of music, you might make some really cool shit. You know what I mean? Yep. I mean, make some really cool shit. Really cool off-kilter, fucking dissonant noise. Who knows? But that's just cool. Put the time into it, give it a try. Just try it. Yeah, just try it. Slap some shit together, see what happens. You know what I mean? I mean, listen to early fucking ministry. I mean, come on, that's just fucking insanity, man. It's great. It's great. Stigmata, fuck off. It's the same thing over and over and over and over again. It's just cool. You know, you know what I mean? It's like, we're gonna, we're just real complex. This ain't fucking prog music, man. You know what I mean? It's like it's cool. So yeah, just do it. Just Do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:00

Okay, so thanks, Sean. We're at our last question. And you know, if someone encountered your work years from now, without knowing your name, what would you hope they understood about how you saw the world?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:14

God, I don't know. Um I don't know. I think like with Chance of Ghost, for example. And not because I have anything to do with it, but I think if you the music itself, the lyrics. I think I'd hope people would think that that we had as a band had compassion for you know mental illness or um um state of the world, you know, like we had some we had some um empathy for all that, you know. Um listen to songs, um asylums about schizophrenia, um you can't know's about genocide. You know, I mean they're you know, it's not straight out saying it, but if you listen to it, you can tell what that shit's about. Um yeah, so I hopefully, you know, people think, oh, you know, that's kind of what they stood for. You know, like hey, bring and bring and notice some things. Prophets, I don't know. We sing about serial killers and monsters. I mean, it's we're just yeah, we're not trying to be too serious about shit, you know. Um Yeah, okay. That's kind of what I hope what people would think.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:38

Well that still resonates with people. Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:40

Yeah, yeah, I think that's what we need too. It's like everybody can get so fucking serious about their music, you know. And you know, chance of ghosts we tried to get serious about it. Like, you know, we should write a song about you know this. You know, not even so much. I mean, I when I wrote Asylum, I just when me and Dave started thinking our working titles of some songs were just foul. Just you know, just rude. I don't even want to say, I mean, I could, but I don't know if I want to say it on it. But yeah, you know, fuck face is a working title of this song that ended up being incantation or something. You know, we just kind of threw names out there. But now it's like I'm not writing the lyrics, not that I couldn't, but I just haven't. I I I wouldn't really thought about it. But it's like, okay, I'm gonna name a song. Hopefully, Olivia kind of like grabs that and goes with it. That's what I did. Asylum stuck, huh? You know, of course, you think of Asylum, what do you think about? Okay, I'm gonna it's gonna be about you know schizophrenia. Um, Haunted. There's a one song I wrote for for um Prophets now so far. Um we just recorded it. It's like, okay, we're all about you know Andy comes up with the best names of the songs. Um as a comedy, because like, okay, what's that about? We what's she gonna sing about Haunted House? The haunting of your mind. We don't know. So yeah, I'll kind of by the what I name them. Hopefully I steer it a little bit, but yeah, um, yeah, with Prophet Zoe, it's just fun. It's just fun. Nothing else. People hope people even care. They were they must have been a fucking fun bunch of clowns to hang out with, you know what I mean? So hopefully we were. So yeah, I don't know. As long as people fucking get something out of it, you know. Get some sort of emotion out of any of my music is I don't care what that emotion is. They might get pissed off at it. It's cool. As long as you're worked up about it, that's cool, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:27

So well, hey, John, thanks a lot. Hey, and all the listeners behind the lens. Um uh John, I don't know if there's anything else you want to say or anything, but um, I do appreciate the time spent.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:40

Yeah, thanks. I appreciate for having me. This is fun. This is fun, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:44

All right, until next time, everyone.