Baseball, Hot Dogs, and Juggs

On this episode of Park Bench Perspectives, Mike Hammer and Carlos kick off spring by talking baseball—how T-ball and Little League shaped their Minnesota childhoods, expanded their friendships and rivalries, and later became a bond through their own kids. They reminisce about the Twins as a constant “soundtrack to life” on WCCO, old players and eras, and the appeal of small-ball fundamentals like bunting, stealing, and hit-and-run. They share stories about curveballs, pitching machines (“Juggs”), town ball traditions, and a Little League moment when Mike was told to pitch inside and hit a batter. The conversation also touches on MLB’s financial imbalance, fears of a future work stoppage, and a plug for FootPainAuthority.com plus Mike’s Substack and Carlos’s in-progress novel.

00:00 Bench Intro Theme
00:50 Show Welcome Banter
01:08 Future Topics Tease
01:48 Spring Means Baseball
02:04 T-Ball Childhood Days
03:33 Girls In The Game
04:23 Twins Return And Fears
05:31 Town Ball Tradition
07:07 Twins Memories And Voices
09:51 Stealing Home And Small Ball
13:15 Cheating And Pitch Guessing
16:01 Curveball Shock Story
17:24 Pitching Machines And Fungo
19:45 Beanball Confession Setup
20:20 Little League Hit Batter
22:20 Baseball Radio Memories
22:45 Why Baseball Works
24:54 Pitch Clock Debate
26:16 Seat Upgrading Game
28:18 Dodgers Money Problem
30:27 Beep Baseball Origins
34:33 Backyard Baseball Days
37:22 Sponsors And Signoff

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

On this week's park bench perspective, my benchmate Carlos and I talk baseball. Baseball been very better good to me. What it meant to us growing up, what it means to us now. So with no further ado, better up.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Grab a seat on the bench. Hi, and welcome to Park Bench Perspectives. How are you doing, Mike Hammer? How are you, Carlos?

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Cause I'm doing great. It's good to see you on the bench. Oh, it's good to be back on the bench. Are you ready to share your perspective?

SPEAKER_01 1:05

I do have some perspective, and then some. Yeah, too many of them. We've been, you know, reading some of the listener comments and you and I brainstorming, and uh, holy cow, do we have a lot of ideas? We want to talk about kind of the TV shows from our youth, some of the movies, some of the music we listen to.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

You want to talk about a place when it was built we had a great time at?

SPEAKER_01 1:28

The rec yeah, we yeah, we want to talk about the rec center. We'll see if we covered all the food in our episode two on food, and maybe folks will have to have an episode three. And we want to do stuff about our teachers we had. I know we talked a little bit about our elementary school teachers, but we want to talk about some additional teachers, more about the expanding world, and more about as our world expanded as we got older. So today? Today we're not talking about any of that. Why? Because it's spring, and spring means get ready, play ball. Exactly. Baseball season has started.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

You know what's funny is being in it, not funny, but great. Being in it and then having kids that were in it. The first sport you really back when we grew up, that you you started playing. Everybody played baseball. T ball to be exact. You started playing t-ball, and then I got the time when I was soccer.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

I will use the caveat. I did not come from a hockey family. So a lot of kids, you know, a lot of kids are on skates, skating around at three or four.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

No, back then they weren't. They weren't, okay. Not as much. And people are gonna probably say, yes, we were, but think about it. Not where they get into the I'm gonna get my kid going early so they'll get a scholarship because I'm gonna try to do it.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Back then we kind of played sports for two reasons. One was for fun, and two, it was a way for parents to get us out of their hair for a little while.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

Yeah, and the competitive level, the playing, the whatever, see what you could do. But so everybody started playing t ball. Yeah, everybody did. Yeah, and it was just it just that time of year. Nothing snow season starts, I think, kind of like baseball does. Because up here, when we're snowed in for months, when you can get out and play ball.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Yep. Oh no, yeah. I mean, it's spring, it's Minnesota, it's a chance to get out. I mean, it was it was a central part of our childhood. Because as you mentioned in the last show, is you know, the the the four corners of our neighborhood was very small, and we were literal little, and the first expansion of that was the kids we met playing ball. Yeah, and that's where friendship started, that's where rivalry started, you know.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

And I wish it would have been more so because, like I said, it got past our time and more than my kids' time, girls played t-ball. Everybody back then it was kind of like that know your place, know your role, and and it was too bad because we we got to little league, some girls did play. Yeah, but when certainly when you're five, six, seven, eight, nine years old, there's enough girls that are better than boys at a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

There were some girls in our little league, and I'm gonna use the word girls, I don't I don't mean that as an insult, but they were like 10 and 11 year olds, so I'm gonna call them girls because to me that's what they were. But they you know, they they were competing at a higher level than a lot of the males.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

Well, my daughter played uh baseball until eighth grade.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Yeah, but um so it's just it's springtime, it's baseball that I can't do that with my crack of the bat.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Um and I, you know, I have broken my three-year boycott of the twins. I actually bought the twins package for$99 because I thought to myself, I love baseball. Yeah, and not to be a buzzkill, but there likely will be no baseball in 2027. Um, the collective bargaining agreement ends December 1st, so enjoy the season. It may be the best and the last uh professional baseball we get for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

Yeah, and it's funny because I don't know if anybody's probably people have watched the Ted Lasso's show.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

There's an episode where they talk about Rebecca's thinking of the owner of the team in the show, she's thinking about selling it, and then all of a sudden, these people, these blue-collar workers, this is their world. This is what they they get into it, they live for. So people are like, if you want to be a Minnesota fan, yeah, just brace yourself for heartbreak. Yeah, and we're gonna that mountaintop for us is always moving, it's a moving target because we never get to it except way back when when most and and I, you know, I will still push, even though uh Twins Baseball is back in my life.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

I will still push for folks to support their community teams, town teams. Oh, we'll do an episode because I don't think people realize that Minnesota's town team tradition is greater than just about any state, with the possible exception of California. But think about that. Yeah, Minnesota is neck and neck with California. I mean, it is it's a great history, and never having played town ball, you have there's a lot to talk about. So I think we're gonna do a future episode on that. Maybe get on some of our uh old friends that have played town ball well into their 50s.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

Craig Breichrece played forever. Pat Nelson went back and played. You know, there's a uh I can't remember who did the story. One of the news stations had the reporter that uh this old whatever, and they followed town ball around. And I played a lot of town ball. So a lot of these fields they were going to was memories, good memories.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

But yeah, I uh Well, and I mean, and maybe we'll make the show about town ball because I'm fascinated by it. Because I remember when Bud Grant died, people talk about how great an athlete he was, and everybody knows he played professional football. He also played professional basketball, he could have played professional basketball. Well, yeah, he played for the lake, but he also was paid, town teams would pay him money to come play$100 for the weekend to pitch. One game, one game to pitch. That's how good he was.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

A lot of it in western Wisconsin, but superior, Duluth, Hayward, uh, Eau Claire. Yeah, they'd hire him. You know why? Because these towns, the games matter. Oh, that they matter big time. These old towns, they had stadiums that would hold three, four, or five thousand. Yeah, and we'd go there, and there would be that, and I'd be 18, 19, 20, going. Well, I mean, the first it was it was fun. But let's just start with the twins because there's that, you know, we talk about in the fall, we're drinking the purple Kool-Aid. Yep. So we're drinking the polad potion. The um the hopes that let's see what our boys can do, let's see what our nine can do. Yeah, throw them out there. Ernie Banks, it's a good day for two. Remember doubleheaders?

SPEAKER_01 7:25

They're good. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

But you never know what could happen, who could get out of the Astros of five, six years ago. Yeah, bunch of young guys. We have a young bunch of young guys, but they're failing to get out of the starting.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

I just I I love baseball, and you know, Pam's the one that noticed it because uh in my life, up until two or three years ago, having a baseball game on the radio or in the background was the soundtrack of my life. I mean, always, always. I admit I'd be doing other things, but the baseball game wasn't always there, and that was I learned that from my dad. We'd be in the yard working as a kid and or or on a car, and it would always have CCO on the radio with Twins game.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Herb Carneal, Halsey, Hall, then Dick Bremer, and then now it's Dan Gladden, and I'm missing a bunch of them that were you just you knew that voice. Yeah, and you knew, especially during the day, if I was working outside or doing something, you knew you had three hours covered.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

And for the bulk of our lives, fertile through our childhood, the twins were terrible. They were terrible teams. They were awful.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

Larry Heisel.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

You know, uh Lyman Bostock.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Lyman Bostock, uh, RP. Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

My uh I remember getting taken to the an old Met Stadium game uh with my cousin Manny. If you know, you know. Uh and Manny took Manny took me into the depths of uh the old Met Stadium and said, uh, here's where the players come out after the game. I'll see you later. And then he went and found a bar in Met Stadium that existed, and I just stood out there and I remember Lyman Bostock. I was like 6'7, coming stepping outside, and he is like, and he has he's carrying like a bag with bats in it. And they go, Lyman, you're switching to the black bat now? And he goes, Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

We had some characters because yeah, our time, tail end of uh the uh Bobby Allison, yeah, the Harman Killibrew, the Tony Oliva was playing when we were little kids. Tony Oliva, Pasquale, the um the Jim Palmer, or not Jim Palmer, Jim. Jim Cott. Jim Cott, Perry, Jim Perry. They went to the 65 World Series and lost game seven to Sandy Colfax, who had one of the best pitching performances in the World Series, total series. They were good.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

They were good up until like the 6970. Yeah. The Billy Martin as a manager.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

When they got rid of Harman Killerbrew, that kind of seemed that's what we started to when I Alright.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

I want a total diversion here, because I never in my life in a game stole home or watched anyone steal home where it wasn't a screwed up uh suicide squeeze or a pass ball or a wild pitch. Did you ever see anyone steal home in a game you were in?

SPEAKER_02 10:06

I referenced them earlier. Craig Breikwrites would steal bases like I don't know. What do you God die? You do it and you you're safe every time. You just make it happen. And I remember watching him do it, just like he just read things, you're like, this is totally not a good idea. And oh, they threw the ball away. Because a lot of it was shock.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

And the team wasn't prepared for it, so they throw the ball away and you're safe. I mean, to me, it's the most exciting play in all of baseball, and few people have ever seen it. And I think back, what brought it to my attention or my mind just now was talking about those Billy Martin era uh twins, and I think it was 69, it might have been 67, but I think it was 69. Rod Carew stole home plate seven times in one season. That just blows my mind. Billy ball. Like I can't remember ever seeing it live in a game, and the guy did it seven times in one season. Wasn't fleet of foot. He wasn't the fact, he wasn't slow, but he was not quick, but he was fast. He was sneaky. I always thought that when he ran, he looked like a gazelle. It was like he was gliding.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

Yep, yeah. Rod Crew was the epitome of get on base, hit the ball where they ain't. Didn't hit a lot of home runs, but he could. He was a big one.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

And listen, listen, I've done the reading, I've said, I've seen the math. I don't care. To me, you manufacture runs, you don't wait for the three-run home run. I I miss small ball. That's the kind of baseball my dad coached, you know, is is bunting and running and stealing and hit and run. To me, manufacturing a run is the best kind of baseball, and I know that is old style, but that to me is the best baseball.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

But it's coming back because a lot of our talk about I was just listening to a radio uh show last night, and a guy's like doubles and triples. Yes, home runs are that that's the the beat your chest kind of like because when you watch, especially when when someone tags it and and they should have a stewardess on that ball, yeah, yeah. You're like, that's impressive. I just watched an old Bryce Harper in a home run hitting contest when he was 16 at uh I think it was Detroit Stadium, 502 feet, far the ball over still hit there. But that's that one moment, and they say in all sports, uh, players that have played all the different sports say, nothing really topped that moment. You connect and you know it's out, and you're just like wow, and they try to run. But doubles, triples, all that fun stuff where so much is happening. Stealing a base, you just have to run. They have to catch the ball, throw the ball, play the ball. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Well, I mean, and that and that's why that's why my dad coached that way in youth baseball is because if you just get the ball and play, you can fairly safely assume the other team will screw it up and put the burden on them. But you know what? That works the same way in the pros. Is make I would rather see that than a strikeout, or my god, a double play drives me insane because it's like you could have hit and run, you could have stolen, you could have bunted them over. There's a lot of ways you could have avoided having two outs.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

Because it's going back to that a bit now because players are getting rid of away from the bomba squad, which was fun. It was great.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

You're like, wow, well, that was because they because they wound the balls tight.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Well, yeah, but it was still fun to watch because the twins took advantage of it. Oh, yeah. We didn't bang garbage can lids, but we uh we figured it out.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

But um you know, my theory on that is the twins were cheating as well. My my belief is there's probably about five or six teams doing something, and that's why they didn't come down hard, you know, no individual players had anything happen because they're like, yeah, because I think there's a fair amount of evidence the Yankees were doing it, Boston, you know, was doing it. And so I honestly think that there's no other explanation for going setting the record for all-time homers, and then all but then the year before and the year after, you're not hitting homers. That's that makes my spidey sense tingle a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

There is some where are you cheating by watching the pitcher, picking up things, yelling from the dugout, but when they put the camera out in center field, they were doing that. But the hard part is anybody that's hit the ball really good, yeah, you you're not really telling them, hey, if curveball's coming, you're saying fastball or or off speed. Because the batter can't sit there and think of that that fast.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

So let me ask you this. I never played baseball at a level where I was guessing pitches. I was reacting to pitches. I never, you know, and I stopped playing baseball when I was 16, okay? So I never got to that point where my understanding is a major league hitter now has to guess. They can't physically prepare for a 100 mile per hour fastball and a curveball. They gotta pick one and hope that's what they guess.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

Play out the scenario. Where is this guy gonna pitch me? It's a cat-and-mouse game, and sometimes the the off speed gives a player a little bit more time to you see some of those players that Mike Truck could do it, some of the really strong, they can all of a sudden hold the bat up or or f fall it off a bit because it came a little bit slower in, they had a little bit of time to react. Yeah, but that's hard to do because you're trying to pick up.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

That's a that's a very, very, very rare human being who have that ability. Like I remember reading that Ted Williams had 2010 vision.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

Maybe Ted Williams could react to seeing the ball if it was spinning with the laces on top, or the laces uh you know, uh coming the other way where you're gonna have a rising fastball or a sinking. It um the they're guessing to a certain extent, but they know and then sometimes you'll see a batter up there if you're not a big baseball, and it's almost right down center cut. And the the player doesn't swing. It's like that's they weren't they weren't looking for that. They were like locked up going, yeah. I didn't expect that. Yeah, and you go, and people are like, well, why would you swing? Mo, you go in there and you figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

You know, I always love the oh, if you got a hundred at bats against you know uh Randy Johnson in his in his prime, how many hits would you get? Zero. Yeah, zero. I mean, I'm sorry, but these guys were like going, you know, I could beat up a bear. No, you couldn't. Crock one. Crack in the all-star game.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Put the helmet on backwards, put the flip the bat around, and every time the pitch came, stepped out of it, going, I'm there.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you a story. Uh Babe Ruth baseball had when we went over there from Little League, had a 13-year-old team, and I was on that, and then some of us were on a regular team, and I was drafted on a regular team, but no one ever told me. So it's like the first day I'm standing there, and some young guy, and I can't remember his name, says, Are you Carlos? Here, here's the uniform. Hoagland was our team. Um, yeah, he starts me in center field, and my dad can't stop laughing. He said, you know, my dad literally said, they better give him a helmet because he's gonna hurt himself. Okay? So I am in the lineup. I had never in my life seen a curveball. Never, never, yeah, and so I get up, you know, and I remember Andy Townsend was on our team too, on my team, and uh because I remember he got a hit and I didn't. And Dale Yonke is pitching, which I don't know, when I'm 13, he seemed like he was the hugest human being I'd ever seen in myself. And I hear from his the opposing dugout, give him the bender. And so he throws a curveball, and I, you know, I jump about 15 feet out of the box because I think it's gonna hit me, and then he throws me another curveball and I jump 15 feet out of the box, and I think, you know, hang in there. And then the third one, I think I just barely flailed, but that was my first experience with a curveball, and it did not go well. The hard part is in practice, you get the jugs doing it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

That's one thing about off speed, yeah. It's hard to let batters see it, especially at that level, because A, you're not really supposed to be throwing a lot of curveballs, ruin your arm, whatever, but B, you don't have a lot of pitchers that can throw it over the plate, so you can't take batting practice against it.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Well, that's a you you talk about the jugs, it's like I never I didn't hit off a pitching machine until after I stopped playing baseball. Well, we had the jugs there.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

I remember they would do that for Oakfield when we're doing the trials to pick the teams, and they would do you remember that Lidley or Babe Ruth, are you sure? It was Babe, oh I remember because Babe Ruth. Yeah, and if you threw the jugs, the jugs are two wheels spinning, you put the ball in and it shoots it out. Yeah. And if you want my camera talks about jugs. Jugs. Sorry. So, but if you did the wheels spinning at the same speed, you'd throw knuckleballs. So you had to have one a little bit faster than the other. So I'd throw a little bit of a curve or a slow one way or another. And throwing it to outfielders instead of trying to get it, I don't know, maybe that year or a couple years, we didn't have any dads that could hit the fungal. Your dad can hit the fungo great. But after a while, when you're doing it.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

I actually actually feel uh, first of all, uh for non-baseball fans, a fungo bat is a thin baseball bat that is used to hit mainly fly balls to outfielders in practice, but also you can use it to hit infield grounders. Uh, and uh that's one of the things when I cleaned out my parents' house, I kind of wish I'd held on to that. Funny.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

So we're doing it in the outfield. Everybody takes their turn and see what they catch outfield balls. And I felt bad. Dave Schmidt was out there in the ball, a little bit of a curve. And you're you're trying out, so you're a little bit nervous. And that curve just enough missed his glove right in the cheek. Oh, he had he looked like he he got that was a big shiner. But yeah, we but it the jug, the the pitching machines back then weren't as good as they're there. No, they couldn't do it, but it um yeah, it was hard to see a curveball because and I pitched, so I knew I'm like, this guy, the the knees are gonna buckle. I'm starting it at their shoulder. When I started throwing curveballs and sliders, I had a sweeping slider. I know I'd start it at his head and it'd end up almost outside the plate on the other side. And you get a lot of like swings and oh, backing out and stuff, bright crystals again, only ones I did when we played against each other.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

This is actually gonna get to my point. And I know what particular stories this might engender, but it may engender other stories I'm not aware of. But I will tell you that the statute of limitations is up on my father for this, and I do remember you talking to Chad Hartman about this and outraging them. But have you ever in your career been instructed to or intentionally beaned anyone as a pitcher? One time. One time, and when was that time, Mike Allen?

SPEAKER_02 20:13

That was our last year of Little League and Park National Little League.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

We were on Rudolph's.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

Okay, yeah, Rudolph's barbecue. And we were up against Lions. The Lions Club, okay. And Bright Craig was the best player in our club.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Best athlete, I think, that I that grew up in our neighborhood is Craig Craig Bright Crates.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

And the best baseball player in our great and good at that age, too. And um, he's leading off, and I'm like, well, he's not a leadoff hitter, he's but for some reason Kent Wilson said uh leading off leading off. And so he's good friends, so he crowded the plate. I mean, like right on the plate, and I'm like, you don't have much to work with there, and you're still so twice once he got a hit, and once I walked him, yeah, and the third time up, and uh your dad comes out to the the mountains with the city.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

My dad was your coach pretty much you throw out your three. Throughout my ear.

SPEAKER_02 21:06

Yeah, Carlos Sr. was my coach, and he looked at me, he goes, Michael, throw the ball over the goddamn plate. And I'm like, I can't. He's crowding it. And he won't get off. He's right on the plate. I don't know what to do. Being the son of a bitch. Hit him, hit him, throw inside. Don't walk him, hit him. He basically said, throw inside, and if you hit him, that's gonna be okay. And I hit him in the thigh, and years later I told him that I was kind of giving the green light to throw it there, and if it hits you, it's but I backed to I tried to hit a bigger part of the body that wasn't gonna hurt.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

But uh, but it's an awful burden to put on an eleven or twelve year old. Hey, this kid who's your buddy, beat him.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Me and Craig had a lot of baseball years together. It was fun. That was a for another story.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

I uh Yeah, no, I remember that I was driving home from work and I'm listening to K-Fan and I think it was when it was uh uh Chad Hartman and Barrero and you're like talking about oh yeah, my Lily coach told me to bean a guy once, and I'm like, oh shit. Don't say his name.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

No, well it was funny. Baseball covers so many generations. I remember, you know, the WCCO, 100,000 watt radio, and they didn't have to they didn't have to tone it down at night, whatever they call it, break it down to like 50,000 watts. They could yeah, so they got you could hear you could hear, yeah, you could hear WCCO in Kansas. Yeah, it's the Dakota, so they had a lot of little old ladies that would uh would listen to it, and and I remember listening to it, and then afterwards when Darkstar come on, that was even icing on the cake. But uh it's my take on baseball is this they'll do it real quick. Baseball is played in the park, football in a stadium. There's a comedic bit, but 162 games. Yeah, people say it's too many. Well, you don't have to listen to it, and if you don't like it, just let it be. Football, you know, you spend more time breaking down the game, the draft, uh, the OTAs.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

There's an awful lot of foreplay. Football. Oh, God. And if you're a Packer fan, I think that the pregame starts at 7:30 a.m.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

And then there's one game a week, and if it's not a great performance, yeah, it's baseball is kind of like, well, this one wasn't great.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Or you you who you were a closer in college, it's like going, if you give up a home run, guess what? Next day, they're handing you the ball.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

They're doing it again.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

And you gotta, you gotta, you know, you gotta get it out of your brain.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

That was fun. But to me, baseball is like a book. There's 162 chapters, and that's why old people, I say older ladies listen to it, grandmas would listen to it all the time, young people, because if today's chapter wasn't that good, yeah, to an end tomorrow. But in football, I don't even talking about it, but you have a couple days to stew about it and break it down.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

I think it's this this still holds up the math on this, but uh 162 games. You're gonna win 54, you're gonna lose 54. What happens in the other 54 is what matters. Yeah, it's it's long. It's like, you know, it's like sweeps and things like that just don't, it's awfully hard. I don't, you know, once again, I'm not a gambler, but those that are gambling on baseball, I'm like, are you crazy? It's like on, oh, I bet on the pitchers. I'm like, really? Because you know, Paul Skeen started on on opening day, and he's the greatest pitcher in the last decade, and he got shelled in the first inning.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

Yeah, yeah. You're giving them kudos last decade because there's been some good.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

But the last three years, yes, I would say Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, he you know, a guy goes from college to pitching in the world series, or not the world series, but pitching in the pros and then being elite for his first three years. Yeah, that I mean it's it's amazing. But yeah, I I over I oversold him a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Baseball sports can people out there talking on the radio shows, the the wonks, baseball games are too long.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

And I do like the pitch count because it's kind of some of those those uh the clock has actually not ruined baseball. I'm I'm willing to say that.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Who was CC Sabathia used to milk the clock and you're like calling? Well, who do the big twins have as a pitcher?

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Well, yeah, well, Knoblock, because he grew up watching a guy for in Texas called Mike Hargrove, whose nickname was the human rain delay. Yeah, yeah. After every pitch, he would step out of the box, readjust his two gloves, re-adjust his jersey, and it'd be like two minutes, it'd be like two minutes each. No, yeah, that just because you can't have a bunch of people doing that. Or what is the worst, the absolute worst when you're a fielder in the field being out there forever is a pitcher that can't find the strike zone. Yeah, it's just because you're just standing there.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

Another ball five, ball six, ball. But the part of it is if the game's too long for you, you can leave. Yeah, it's okay. No one's making you stay there.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

It's not a good thing. And like to me, it's like when most games are like that for me during the season, unless it's, you know, hey, you know, Mike Trout's in town, or hey, I get to see this pitcher, I haven't seen him pitch. But otherwise, it's just a soundtrack to life. It's in the background. I'm doing other things, you know. Enjoy it. Unless I have to be some, I don't leave games early. Yeah, it's like going to a movie and leaving with them. I'm gonna beat the crowd out of here, I'm gonna be trapped. And having attended games with Mike Hammer, there's also the game within the game, which is how close, how much can we upgrade our seats in nine innings? And uh, you know, and and and he will test as to how aggressive the uh the the people are at target field. Now, I gotta tell you, later in the season they become a lot less uh concerned about it.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

We're sitting right behind uh the home plate, five rows up. But yeah, my kids would hate it because we would go and start and part of it was it's not that I didn't want to buy different tickets, you're like it's the game within the game. You can just walk the corridor, yes, you can. And stop and see the game at various spots. It's awesome. But it's funny because sometimes you're sitting there going, I've been standing for it, I'd like to sit right there. And they're like, Well, you can't.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Well, it's empty. I mean, it could.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Can't I? I mean, I could physically I could sit. Well, you know what's gonna really? Because me being here, not being here, isn't gonna change the poll ad ledger. Yeah, it's just like I understand when when the twins are doing good, the seats are filled. You gotta you want to sit close. It's it's almost like a Chipotle.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

It's almost like going, Why are you fighting me over a half a spoonful of rice? You know what? We're both getting screwed by the man. You know what I'm saying? It's like, are they really gonna get in trouble? Are you really gonna get in trouble if you let Hammer and I sit down in these nice seats?

SPEAKER_03 27:34

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

And we're just watching a game, and we're actually watching the game. It's not a social, it's a social event, but I we're intrigued about the game and the cat and mouse and and all the intricacies of the game. That's the fun stuff. Well, the sad part is the twins cannot go 162 and zero.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

They cannot, they cannot. They go 161. 161 and one, but I they do it every year, and I know they're trying to do it for rainouts, but the whole let's have a game and then have a day off and have another game thing that they do every season is the biggest buzzkill. Because it's like I watched the game and it's like going, I'm in the habit now. No, you know what, we're not giving you game on Friday night. Don't try to predict things, just let them play out. Yeah. And you know what?

SPEAKER_02 28:15

If it rains, guess what? You can have a doubleheader, doubleheaders are awesome. Now, just as we're winding up here, I'm just gonna say I know you're a Dodger fan, and I've liked the Dodgers over the years. I like the Yankees, I just like baseball, I like good baseball, and they're committed to winning, so you're like what kind of owner I'd like to have, but too much Dodgers lately. And I was just reading the story about Mookie Betts. He's a great story, and Freddie Friedman's a great story, and Shoey Atani. But it's not fun.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

And so you're like, I you are so talented, but I like baseball. I mean, here's here's the thing is that baseball is in danger of becoming the Harlem Globetrotters, where everybody's local team, you know, well, okay, the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Dodgers, the Cubs, those are all real teams, and the rest of us are the Washington Generals that people just come to see them and then see our team lose. That is not sustainable.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

And the Washington Generals have a St. Louis Park tie-in. They I did not know this. What is that? Well, people know Jim Peterson. Yeah. We went to school. Mike Peterson was a year older than us than his little brother. Dave Peterson was a year older than my brother, but so Jim Peterson, yeah. Big huge timber wolves analyst and played for the Gophers. He was just like one of the first, wow, yeah, first athlete you could see going. He lives here. He lives cool. Mike Olson, the pitcher, was that way too for me. But his dad played for the generals. I did not know that. And this story might be wrong and right. Mike might get all of me, or Jim, or whatever. But the rumor, the story I know goes that they were playing in Minneapolis, and it was or they're playing somewhere, it was Jim's dad's birthday, and they kind of asked the Gophers or the Timber Globetrotters to not crush them. And they did. In the next game, supposedly the backups went out and put a beating down on the Goletrotters and beat them.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

There, there are. I used to be a huge Harlem Globetrotters. I just was way into them when I was like six, seven, eight years old.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

And we'll tell another story. On the bench, got a hot dog for Curly Neal. But go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

I did not. I did too. You know, Mike Hammer, it's almost like you've lived like ten lives. You have so many stories that I've not heard. It's amazing. I gotta hear about how you handed Curly. That's more important to me to know this. So my dad was into beat baseball. Baseball for the blind. It's the softball, kidball, whatever. And he was doing a return. So no, no, hold on. The thing is, it's like people don't know what that is. So for so correct me if I'm wrong. They tried to design a softball game that that blind people could play. And so the ball would emit sound, and then the bases would emit sound, and it was known as beep baseball. Beep baseball. And there was third base and first base, and that's all you do is get to that base.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

And I and I knew that was a that was a run. So you'd have to hear which base goes off. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Now I he I know I've known all along that your dad was big on beep baseball. How did your dad get into that? Do you know?

SPEAKER_02 31:07

A friend of his at work introduced him to John Ross and threw he was in the Masons and stuff. Okay. Somehow just correlated together. And he he invented a base out of those you now they look like those swimming pull noodles, the foam, but they were square, they were like rectangular square, and he made basses to sound. So when the players hit it, they didn't hurt themselves because they would run through it like well, I mean, because they're trying to compete as athletes, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:34

But they I mean I can't I honestly can't imagine. But that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 31:38

So I was young, 10, 11, 12, baby. And somehow he was going to do an interview with the Harlem Globetrotters. They were playing at the uh the Met Stadium. Yep, or Met Center. Met Center, yeah. And we're going down on the bench, and my dad's sitting there with that old rectangled tape recorder thing with the funny. If you know what you know, talk about the those old tape tape. The old cassette tape layers. Cassette tape layers where you can record. Yep. And um Curly Neal's sitting there and he's gonna talk to me. He goes, Hey kid, give me five bucks. Go get me a hot dog. And I'm like, oh wow, so I'm up there, you know. This is for Curly Neal. This uh I'm getting him a hot dog, bring it down, and I'm like, oh, here's your change. We'll keep it. And it was one of those Joe Green moments. Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Um but that was um I gotta tell you, you're a better man than me, my camera, because if I'd have met Curly Neal, everybody that I knew and people that they know would have known because I'd have told the story.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

I probably told it a few times, but it was it was one of those it was just uh kind of neat.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Yeah, it was it was fun. But I know we got way off track talking with Jim Pete and his dad and the Harlem Globe.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

The Washington Generals. We were talking about like how baseball has changed, and I'm actually doing some writing on that, um, going back to the concept that we were having a work stoppage, and I'm gonna I'm gonna promote some of that. I've got a I've got a piece that I've uh submitted to Fangraphs, yeah, a baseball website, uh talking about kind of baseball's gotta do something. They're really in danger. And I know that it when free agency began, everybody's like, well, you see, smaller teams win. I'm like, yeah, but it's accelerated now. I mean, you got the Dodgers who spent$750 million in deferred contracts. I do not think over the last decade the twins have spent$750 and they are$750 million and they did it in one offseason. Yeah, that that's not sustainable.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

The hard part is they say, well, you know, the the the the New Yorks, the Boston, the Philadelphia's, the Dodgers don't always, but they're always in the top five. So let's just say they put themselves to the chance. One team that impressed me, the St. Louis Cardinals, they always have a mid-range payroll, and they just have good baseball people. They're always in the conversation in September. They have a solid, solid uh farm system, uh player development. Exactly. They put the money there, but the Brewers, cute story, they have a low payroll. They have they they they did who was uh the Tampa Bay Rays have done it with a low payroll, but they've done it, they've stayed competitive.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

But how many World Series championships? Yeah, exactly. You gotta go back to Kansas City in like 2016, and that's the last time, and they've been terrible since. I mean, it's this is not the Rays, I don't think they just get there or they just got there. I don't think they've won on. I really don't. Miami did, but they had a big payroll, and then they cut it. They basically it was like a one and done kind of a thing. They saw that was one of the biggest sell-offs in baseball history. Yeah, so anyways, uh, so yeah, baseball's got a problem, but I'm happy it's back. And uh, you and I have been all over the place talking about something that nobody asked us to talk about, but I still had fun.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

It's something that we've it's been a bond for us just because of our your dad, us, our friends, the the I mean, baseball was a big part of us growing up.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

I mean, you know, we did play basketball and we played football, but you know, baseball box in your backyard.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

Oh my god, so much, so many times. Which cousin will we get over there? The two brothers.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Oh, uh Camilo and Roley. These are my two cousins that are now in Miami, but came when we were in fourth grade, they came from Spain, Cuba through Spain for a year, and then here, and yeah, they they uh we would play ball. They were not baseball guys though, because they had spent their teenage years in Spain, so they were all uh soccer and were like football. I'm like, oh kicks games, those are fun.

SPEAKER_02 35:16

We played hotbox in your backyard, and if people that don't know hotbox, I had to explain it to my kids. Pickle in the middle? Pickle in the middle is a is a way of looking at it, yes, but with baseball and throwing back and forth, you tried to steal and get there. Yeah, and they played with uh we had some there was big dirt spots where the bases were. But we uh with we growing up, baseball was just the the go into the we talked about before, Little League Field, the Bay Bruce field.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

Yeah, no, we would do that a lot. We would go down to the field like during the day and play. Pitcher's hand.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

Yeah, can't hand it past second base to the right field side because you had a pitcher, a shortstop on an outfielder, pitcher's hand, and then we only had like one baseball because they didn't have mass-produced baseballs.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Well, I I remember with I don't know that you'd play with us, but uh from a couple of uh little league teammates from our uh uh St. Louis Park City Championship team, go Loopian Olds, uh uh Matt Colford and Adam Graziano over there farther on uh we took it farther on Cedar Lake Road, there's like there's like a water treatment plant where you play there all the time. I mean if you hit it on the roof, you're yeah, you're out. If you if you if you go over the roof and you can find it, it's a home run. But if it stays on the roof and you can't find it, it's an out. Because the game's over. And then also if there was a danger of the pitches, it would also go off into like a uh a marsh. Yes, it would go down a hill in a marsh. Buckthorn. Buckthorn, exactly. And so yeah, that but that's how we would spend our days. We did it at Elliott.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

If you could clear the tar, that was a home run. Yeah, uh, as we got bigger, then we went to the outfield, and if you could hit the tar from the other way, hitting it from the outfield backstap, and then if you could hit the school, yep, that was that was big.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

That was huge, that was huge. I honestly cannot think about St. Louis Park without thinking about baseball because uh it was the center of my universe until high school, and then when you're in high school, uh things change. But baseball, the old commercial baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet. Chevrolet, but yeah, it's just uh well, Mike Hammer, we've been all over the place here. Uh, do we want to talk about any of our sponsors? Uh, we I think we should because sometimes what gets sore on you? You know what? I hate when I'm on my feet all day, unless you got a treat for your feet? Absolutely. I call my friend Mike Hammer and I go to footpainauthority.com and I get myself massaging insoles.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

Massaging insoles. When your feet feel good, the whole world looks better. You hit the ball farther at all those uh. Are you gonna do something good and special for our listeners? Well, if you go to the website and put in the promo code BENCH, you'll get your park bench perspective discount. Excellent. And what's that website again? Footpaintauthority.com. Footpaintauthority.com.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

All right. I'm still doing some writing over on my substance. Yes, Carlos, tell us about what you're doing. I should be announcing my novel, but I haven't finished it. But I'm working on it. The cover's cool. Well, yes, the cover is cool. Um, but I don't think people would pay for a cover that's empty on the inside. But hopefully, hopefully I will have a sales link to share very, very shortly. Um, but right now I'm writing about Substack, and like I said, I'm trying to write a little bit about baseball. So hopefully the editors at Fangrafts think what I wrote was good enough, and I'll share the link. Otherwise, I will publish it on my Substack. Hope you've enjoyed this episode of Parkbench Perspectives. Join us next time as we discuss music in St. Louis Park.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

What's in the world? Spinning slow another day, strange after glow.