Father’s Day Reflections and Baseball Chatter: From Park Bench Perspectives to Square Box Baseball

Mike and Carlos Figueroa talk on Father’s Day from their “park bench” perspective, reflecting on Carlos’s late father and how youth baseball has changed from inexpensive local leagues to costly, professionalized travel ball. They reminisce about St. Louis Park Little League memories, including injuries from hit batters, a city championship run, pitching limits, and the importance of catchers and infield communication. Their conversation explores baseball’s sounds and language (including the origin of “can of corn”), dugout and field chatter, taunting rules, and how pitchers and catchers call games, contrasting past intuition with modern analytics. They discuss parent behavior as a major problem in youth sports, and relate perseverance to being “on the one-yard line.” They plan to record at the old ballpark, revisit St. Louis Park in 2026, and launch a baseball-focused spinoff podcast, “Square Box Baseball,” based on a Latin American saying about baseball’s unpredictability.

00:00 Park Bench Intro
00:36 Fathers Day Talk
01:42 Remembering Dads
01:55 Kids Sports Then Now
02:49 Little Gophers Memories
03:42 Baseball Sounds Origins
04:56 Chants Taunts Rules
05:58 Voices From The Stands
06:48 Scary Hit By Pitch
08:19 City Champs Glory Days
10:33 Pitch Counts Big Games
14:21 Cinderella Man Lesson
16:52 New Baseball Spinoff
17:56 Square Box Baseball
19:21 Can Of Corn Explained
20:49 Dugout Chatter Deep Dive
21:39 Dugout Chatter Jokes
22:50 Calling Pitches Debate
23:56 Catcher Trust And Gameplan
24:49 Reading Hitters Then Now
27:00 Hitting And Guessing
30:02 Look Alive Field Talk
32:48 Taunting And First Base Stories
34:29 Parents Ruin Youth Ball
39:01 Town Ball Home Run Tale
41:04 Wrap Up And Podcast Plans

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Helping me to win the five.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

Carlos Figueroa, my friend, we're doing good. We're doing good. Another Sunday in the proverbial park on a proverbial bench.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Hey, I want to wish you I want to wish you a happy Father's Day.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Thank you. Thank you very much. And all the fathers out there as well. Yeah, it's it's the kind of the forgotten holiday.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Or whatever. Yeah, I remember when I was in high school working at TGI Fridays, it was like the biggest day of the year. Sunday brunch was Mother's Day. Not an equivalent for Father's Day. Nope. It's the Father's Day, but just another Sunday at the restaurant, typically.

SPEAKER_04 1:10

Basically, you barbecue outside and let the dad barbecue because that's what they supposedly.

SPEAKER_03 1:15

Somewhere along the line, dad's got the nod.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

You guys can barbecue. You can't screw it up too. The thing is, it was you kill and then you cook, right? You gotta you gotta you if it's cooking with fire, you do it because that's more manly.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

I think it was more of the girls' baseball saying, how about you go out and play with the grill out there, pretend like you're in your little holly hobby type kitchen, and we'll sit in here, and if it doesn't work out, we got another meal prepared.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Yep, absolutely. But it's really hard to I just want to say I posted out my standard Father's Day picture of my dad, I miss him. Still hurts, man. It's been six years, it still hurts.

SPEAKER_04 1:51

Your dad was a gem. I was bringing it up to a guy we were working at a place, and he's his kid's in baseball, and I was telling him about your dad and and the coaches we did, and how it was just simpler back then.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

And how his kids 12 playing in a Minneapolis, whatever league. Yeah, and everybody's got their own helmet, and everybody's got their own bat.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

They buy their bats, people are saying like $350 for this bat, $250 for this bat.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

I'm like, and yeah, are you kidding? The spoiled one get two bats. It used to be baseball is pretty cheap. The uniforms are usually donated by the sponsor, and you get a glove, and and if you wanted a batting glove, and and parents would buy the Shasta Soda for after the game, and that was it.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Exactly it and he focused on the game, and and that was and I would imagine there's all kinds of traveling team all the time. Remember we were professionalization of kids' sports?

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Yeah, remember we were young, there was the little gophers. There was the little gophers, and that was the thing, and I remember the Heatlers, Dean and Steve, both played for their and they were trying to get me to try out his dad was when it was Dean's year, because I think he played just that year at 12 year olds, and that's it. Yeah, and they had to get crew cuts. Everybody had to get crew cuts. Yes. That was a deal breaker. It was a deal breaker. I said, nope, not gonna do it. And it's bad because I know they traveled to Yeah, they went all over the world.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

It was an it was an awesome opportunity. My dad says, and I know nothing about it. I only heard about it from him. He's I went to take you to try out, and they said you were too young. I brought you back the next year, they said you were too old. So I'm like, okay, I guess that's how it was, Dad. Interesting. But I want to talk about going back to Little League, and I wish my dad was around. I keep coming up with things where it's like, God, I wish I could ask dad about what it was like in Cuba and when he was a kid. But I've been thinking a lot about baseball, which is my obsession, and I've been thinking about the sounds of the game. I've been writing a lot about the words that come from baseball. And and there are the sounds, there's the crack of the bat, there's the sound of the ball hitting the catcher's mit that when he's throwing 100 miles an hour, and it's just that pop.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Do you remember in Bull Durham when the radio guy is doing all the sound effects in the studio announcing the game? And that was that really happened.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

No, so basically, when they first started announcing games, it was off teletype. So the guy was sitting in a room reading it like he's doing it live, but he's getting a teletype of it. So all of the ambiance of the he wasn't at the field.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Yeah, it would pumped in, it was pumped in just pumped in laughter for sitcoms.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Yep, absolutely. Exactly, exactly. And actually, if you think back to the wonderful, amazing movie The Sting, they did a little bit, a little, they used they used that method to pretend it was a live horse race. Yes, yeah, Snyka Baton 15 seconds before the race ended, and that was the scam there. But that guy was doing that same, that was that same technique they used to do. But I'm thinking the stuff that we used to say as kids when I've done a little swing better, swing better, we want a picture, but even like that, I remember saying things like he's afraid of you, he's afraid of you, or he's not gonna give you anything to good to hit, he's afraid of you. I'm just trying to think, because I've read that they now have anti-taunting rules in Little League. And I'm just trying to think, did we say I don't remember saying anything over the line to you?

SPEAKER_03 5:17

Or no, because I think we kind of grew up in a generation where you had enough fear of your parents or the adults around you if you swore. If you swore, you were more like yeah, no, not swearing, though, just saying it's taunting. You suck, but you say different words, like you just didn't you really wouldn't tell someone that because I don't know, you just had a conscience, you felt bad. They're all there, it's a freaking game. This is what I can't think of the kid's name from Bad News Bird Leak. Kelly Lee. Kelly Leak. Where you always feel like there was somebody like that might say something, but you're like, a lot and a lot of them people you knew, friends of yours, little league, you kind of knew everything.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

So listen, I was at first base behind you for many innings, and I'm sure I said, Come on, Hammer, you got him, buddy. Come on, Hammer, throw it in there, buddy. Come on, you got it, throw strikes, buddy. Did you ever hear that? Did you even hear it on the mound at all? Or were you just totally?

SPEAKER_03 6:11

Uh you'd hear you'd hear the people that mattered, yeah, so to speak. So I didn't really have a father. I can remember m sometimes. It was early on with my dad's voice a little bit, a lot of games. Yeah, and but I remember you I could always pick up your dad's voice.

SPEAKER_04 6:27

Yeah. And once in a while, when we were young, we had Graziano was uh, but he was more of an organizer than a baseball aficionado. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

But hearing your dad's voice, it was distinct because it was sure Cuban accents. Yeah, but my mom wasn't a big yeller either, so I don't know. I remember listen hearing you for 10 years.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

I do remember one situation, and he is a friend of ours. He's a really sweet kid, and so I know you, and there was no there was no malevolence on your part. You tended to your ball moved and wasn't always in the zone, people didn't dig in deep. And one time in Babe Ruth you hit one of our classmates in the back of the head, and he kind of went down and it was kind of scary there for a little while. And I remember you're just on the mountain, people like, oh, he's laughing. I'm like, I don't think he's laughing. I think this is just uncomfortable kind of silence. Yeah. Because he went down. I think the paramedics came.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Somebody came on the field, Mark Brown, right? Yeah. And I remember it was kind of like a hanging curve, and he bent down to get out of it, and it just it bent and it just hit him right because you know throwing curve balls very high velocity.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

No.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

It I did that, yeah. They came out and I think he stayed there. He they they checked him out, but he just must have been where he hit him, where it hit him exactly. And then in the Little League championships. Remember that? I don't. I remember.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

What's that?

SPEAKER_03 7:52

At Lions Field.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

I remember I got the win.

SPEAKER_03 7:56

Yeah. And Bart Maher.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

I don't remember. Tell me about Bart.

SPEAKER_03 8:01

And he was standing there and uh through a heater, it came inside and he didn't move his arm, and I broke his forearm.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

Oh wow, that happened in that game?

SPEAKER_04 8:10

Yes. Yes, didn't know until afterwards because I don't know if we found out then or when we started joining up in junior higher high school, but I remember that.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

So I I need to grab my glory here. I'm gonna give some context to the story. We were in the minor leagues in Little League. We were 10 years old. My dad was coaching, Loopian Olds, and we were a really good team. I think we only lost one game that season or two. And so we ended up actually through a series of weird situations playing as the runner-up. Even though we had beat everybody, we had won both halves of the season, we still had to play a game that we ended up losing. So we went in as the as the second seed from ARC National into the city championships. We ended up winning. I ended up to me the most amazing thing from the preliminary game was we actually, and this is minors of Little League, we turned a 6-4-3 double play in the game. Which, if you've dealt with 10-year-old baseball players, that's a feat. That's a feat. So I remember that we did do that.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

Who was playing?

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Was that Rich Ezerlov? Could have been that, or Jimmy Levine, or Jimmy. I thought Jimmy Levine was at second. Sometimes I remember writing in in his year in Rich's yearbook, E6. So I think he might have been our.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

Okay, maybe that could have been it. Because I remember sometimes we'd have Ellen play second, and I was gonna say nothing against her, but that wasn't gonna happen. Got the first the first lead out.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

That would have been but as you recall back then you had to play everybody. Yep. And what's funny is that a lot of the kids kind of disappeared mid-season and all of a sudden showed up for the championship game, and everybody needed three innings in the field and one at bat. And so they had to do that. But, anyways, you are pitching, you hit your innings limit for the tournament. My dad goes to bring in our number two starter, Adam, and they said the other coach goes, Nope, he's innings limited too. And my dad goes, points at me, and I'm like, Whoo, me? And he goes, Yup. And I'm like, oh shit. Uh and yeah, I was able to, I was able to hold the lead, and then in the bottom of the inning, we uh we were able to score, and we were we somewhere in a landfill is my blue city champions t-shirt. I like that.

SPEAKER_04 10:33

I will say that I'm not I understand the lit innings limit, yeah, and I understand young arms, but I was just at the state high school championship game for a shout out to shout out to uh uh Jeff Dull's son.

SPEAKER_03 10:50

Christian Dull, yeah. But uh Chaplin Park against Rosemont. Their ace for bolting didn't start the game, and I and I get like I said, I get it. This is a championship. You know what? Yeah, I understand in the World Series 2 it's discretionary, it's not against the rules.

SPEAKER_04 11:09

If you wanted to pitch Bert Blylevin every game of the World Series, or Bob Gibson, yeah, or back in the day, Walter Johnson would have, or Christy Matthews would have pitched as many they might have had two pitchers.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

You hear these you read these box scores, these pitchers that win 18 innings, or I just read a box score about a pitcher, he pitched both games with a double header in 1932. Yeah, the Boston Braves.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

But here's the thing, and this gets into something that that has really bugged me, and I've turned around. And what has really bugged me are the college football players that have opted out of bowl games. Yeah, that's and so I feel like part of me is like you're letting your teammates down, but part of me is like going, This is their entire future, and if they tear an ACL for a game that is meaningless from their own career standpoint, yeah, that would really suck. And how do you ensure that? So the analogy to baseball is you need somebody that is gonna be thinking about the long-term interests of the child. Yeah, and I get it during the rainbow. But it's like going, nobody understands how arm mechanics work and how injuries work. No one can predict. That would be the holy grail. You would get if you could predict arm injuries, the baseball teams will give you millions and millions of dollars. But you don't know if that extra stress adds or not.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

No, and you can't see it. A couple things I'll talk about, Cinderella man in a second, but I get it. For the championship game, you kind of say we're gonna expand it a little bit because this is the state championship, this is the last game for a lot of these players. Yeah, it's not a big deal. We're gonna lay more of it on the coach's discretion of what's best for his team because he's not gonna put out a worn-off pitcher out there.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Yeah, he's gonna drive. He's gonna try, but that's that line, right? I don't know what the answer is. I don't, if it's your kid, damn, you want to win the championship. You want him to be out there, but at the same time. Yep. I don't know. It's a hard choice. It's the traditional ask a baseball player, are you injured? Nope. Because they're afraid to say anything because they'll lose their spot.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

It's yeah, like the only thing they'll say, you can't do it anymore. Why? Because the rules say no, no other sport really says you can't, you get you played too many minutes of basketball. You can't play.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

But you know what, though, I'm okay for kids. I'm okay for you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

And I get it, you gotta protect the arms. I don't know the throwing curveball before 15 or not or whatever. Everybody's arm is built different. I had a rubber arm, and through college, I could pitch and I turn into a reliever role in college or and come out there every day. Yeah, we played Friday or Saturday or Saturday and Sunday four games. And sometimes I pitch three of those four games, but only an inning or four outs, maybe five outs.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

My my old man used to say to you, it's not for the exact same reasons, but similar to Burt Blylevin, you pitched better as you got tired. He said your ball would drop more, and that was Burt Blylevin used to set records for home runs in the first inning. Yeah, because it just took a while for him to get to the point, and then when the ball's starting to move in and dropping, it makes a difference. And so that's an interesting, that's an interesting element, like going, okay, how do you manufacture tired but not too tired vulnerable to injury?

SPEAKER_03 14:20

Ruining yourself. Yeah, it's funny. I just watched with my daughter and son the uh the Cinderella man with the Russell Crock's about James Braddock, the boxer in the 30s.

SPEAKER_04 14:31

And depression hit him and whatever in the boxing world, and he came back.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

And it's a true story. And he went up because he beat, he did a fill-in because a boxer got hurt and couldn't do it, and he had got his the promoter who got pissed at him because one match it was just so bad. He's I'm losing money here, I'm pulling your license and this and that. But he got a one fight because someone got injured to fill in and he beat that guy. Yeah, and then he beat the next guy, and the next guy was in line or the guy after that to fight Max Bear. Yeah, and Max Bear was just eating people up back there, going through him, and he was a monster. And everybody at the movie that like when he got to the fight, he's like, I why are they gonna let him do it? This is a suicide, this is whatever. And the promoter guy who took his license away but let him back in because boxing needs to make money and he needs to make money, but he's made him watch a film of the guy getting killed in the ring. And he said the other guy, he didn't know it, but he had a ticking from the Max Bear fight, they got hit so hard he had a ticking time bomb, and 30 seconds into his next fight he got hit and he was done. Oh, wow. And that was from this fight. So you never know about the arm injuries where where you're sitting there with a tear about to happen. Yeah, but that's part of the game, that's part of life.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

But let me insert here because it's something that you said to me recently, probably in the last few months, that's really stuck with me because it's it I found it applying to my life. But just thinking about that boxer. What if you'd have said no? That's it. It's you said you said it's like you don't know if you're on the one-yard line, right? Yeah, you don't know if you keep going, if that next fight might be launch your career. I've been thinking about that in the context of my writing. You know, writing a lot of essays, trying to put together some fiction and this and that. And a lot of times it feels like I'm screaming into the void, it's not getting attention and this and that. But I'm like, I keep putting it out, I keep grinding away, and more and more people are reading it, and more and more subscribers, and it's encouraging. But you don't know. I don't know. Maybe I'm on the one-yard line, right? But it's if I give up, I'll never know.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

Yeah, it you don't know if yeah, are the 20-yard line going in at midfield. Sometimes when you're working a long time, you don't know if you're at the one-yard line and you keep having an offsides, yeah, a full start.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

And all that's the one speaking of false starts, it's something for the listeners. We've been saying for a while, we're gonna get out to the park and do things, but you know what? Life has gotten in the way. You your work has gotten busy. I've been traveling a lot, so we will today is just uh Mike and Carlos catching up and sharing some ideas about baseball.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

And what Mike we might do with this baseball thing, tell the audience.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

I think we are so I I once said to Mike, I said, Mike, please make sure that if I ever die, my ashes get spread at first base at Park National Little League and Carlson Field, because those are some of my happiest moments playing ball there. We're gonna probably grab a bench if there's a ball game going on, if we're out there at night, that would be great. But otherwise, we're gonna sit at the old ballpark and talk about some of our memories and visit St. Louis Park in 2026 and see what's different. I know that little league field complex is completely different than what it was when we were kids. Yeah, it's a nice, it's a nice deal.

SPEAKER_03 17:49

No, I was talking about we we might spin off. Keep this one, but have a song.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Oh yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. Yep, no, I know what you're talking about now as well. So Mike and I talk about baseball a lot, and right now our venue to talk about that is parkbench perspectives, but we are going to be doing a new show, Mike and I. It's gonna be called Square Box Baseball. And the reason I came up with that is my dad used to always say baseballs are round, but they come in a square box, which was an odd saying that nobody else I ever heard say it. Once again, I wish he was around so I could talk to him about it because I've actually done some research on it. And it's actually a very famous Latin American saying. Interesting. Meaning essentially that baseball is it's unpredictable. Which, if you know anything about baseball, it's a lot of things, it is definitely unpredictable. I would never bet the house on any occurrence in baseball. But we're gonna set that up. We're gonna talk about baseball, both kind of what's going on and some bigger picture things and some memories about baseball. Park bench perspectives will be more St. Louis Park focused. My baseball career, 100% of it, with the exception of away games, was played in St. Louis Park. So my play in the game knowledge is brings me back to my home because St. Louis Park will always be my home.

SPEAKER_03 19:02

Do you want to talk about chatter in this one?

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Yeah, we certainly know no, we certainly can. I've I actually found it fascinating. So I've been doing some research and some writing. I wrote about kind of words and I've written, I'm kind of putting together a book and publishing chapters of it on kind of the language of baseball and how it intertwines with history. Like, for example, can of corn. I remember you sure heard can of corn when we were in little league. I remember hearing it from Sean's father. That's who I remember hearing it from. I don't think my dad ever said that. I don't think it was an American phrase. My research of it suggests that can of corn, can of corn, oh yeah, okay, go for it.

SPEAKER_03 19:41

General stores, yeah, very high ceilings, and not a big footprint wide on the ground. And so they had to store a lot of the stuff up high, yeah, and they'd have basically 10-foot poles with little hooks on them, yeah, and they'd wear the apron, and the canned food, the canned vegetables and everything would usually go up there. And if they needed one, they'd raise their stick up, knock one down, and they'd catch it in their apron.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Yep, it would fall right down to them. So it's an easy flyball. What's interesting is that was that was a slice of American life that has survived. The general store of the late 19th century, 20th century, at that time, you would not go and have a cart and grab things. You would give your list to the clerk and he would gather all of your items. So that's why the clerk was pulling it down off the shelf. The shelves were not designed for consumers. That came later. But in combination with Sears and Montgomery Ward catalogs, and with somebody figuring out we don't have to have pay clerks and let them grab their own stuff. That killed it off, but the terminology remained. But what I wanted to talk to you about, because part of it is because I don't have a great memory, and part of it is you've had more experience in different eras and at different levels of baseball. But I always wanted to, I've been thinking a lot about kind of the sounds of the game and particularly the chatter, kind of the things that you say in the dugout during the game, and the things that you say when you're in the field. Come on, hammer, throw strikes, buddy. Come on, you got him, you got him.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

It's funny when you say that, because yeah, it it changes. And as a pitcher, yes, a lot of them when I was up until college, you know, yeah, you pitched and hit till you heard it on the mound and in the banner's box. He's no hitter, he's no hitter, come on, he's just gonna leave the bat on his shoulder. Or yeah, and as a pitcher, your teammates come on, throw strikes. Oh, okay, that's what I'm trying to do. Yeah, there's an idea. That happened, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:39

No, that had not even occurred to me as a plan.

SPEAKER_03 21:42

But you know, the baseball people when they came up with the clever ones, and this goes on through high school and college, and even as players, you didn't want to say the old you're a belly itcher, not a pitcher. Wherever that came from. That's not but When you especially when in college when we you sit allowed ten on the best because only one pitcher and there's seven pitchers on the team. So you try to get clever quimsical comments that oh that's a good one. Rabbit ears was we all everybody used rabbit ears, but rabbit ears was with you said something from your dugout and they responded to that comment, and you're like, okay, rabbit ears, come up with the own thing, or Thorfield, throw them a towel.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

The towel was because you're whining about the rough at the and you cry me a river. But it was funny. So when it was younger, and I didn't hear a lot. I said your dad, my coaches, you'd hear them because you spent a lot of time with them.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

You hear the voice, you spent a lot of time, and a lot of times even in I was watching the College World Series, and I was watching that prose really, but a lot of coaches call the pitches from the dialogue and I was just like, I don't I didn't when I coached. I don't like it because the coach sometimes you micromanage, you overgov. Yeah. You gotta deal if you okay if you have a catcher that just doesn't get it, or whatever. But usually as a pitcher, you know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

And uh here's youth baseball, pitcher, probably the most important, but I think 1A is catcher. If you don't have a catcher that can handle your pitchers, you're screwed at little league at youth baseball. You're just screwed. Because it's gonna be that the game's gonna last forever.

SPEAKER_03 23:39

It's gonna be as a team and it limits your even in play school, Kyle. Yeah, if you don't have a catcher that can you watch it in the pros, this guy throws a ball in the dirt, and if you don't have a catcher that knocks it down a lot, as a pitcher, I threw a lot of the balls in the dirt, Dave Sol.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

No, no, did you did you call your own game or did the catcher or did you call them off a lot, or was it dependent on the good some catchers you trusted, or how did that work as a pitcher?

SPEAKER_03 24:07

It works usually where, especially if you get a length of time with the catcher, you get on the same page. If they're doing their job, you hear about it in the pros, like what's working today, what's not. It's very valid where you saw Joe Ryan the other day, where he was struggling, so he was really having to work at it. Yeah, and then there's the start before everything apart because every and you get that, and a lot of it has to do with weather. We were up in a cold time, but I threw a lot of I spun a lot of balls, and we didn't talk about spinning the ball back then or spin ratio, but we just throwing a curveball, a hook.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Let me ask you this. This is turning into God, what's in a pitcher's mind podcast? But did you when we played, when you played even in the college, the information you had about hitters was not anything compared to what they have now? But did you in your mind did you in your mind have okay? I've faced this guy before in this game or before, and this worked, and I set him up like that, or does it every app add a new person and you weren't thinking that deeply about what that guy had done in the past?

SPEAKER_03 25:20

You uh first of all, I'll just finish up what I said. About the catcher. You kind of know when you're still on the same page, when you're on the same page, you shake off some just because you don't feel it, or you just go, I don't have the confidence right now to throw a three, two ball on the outside because if the base is loaded, or the base. But when when you had that's one thing I that might have been more interesting because I usually, when a batter came up, you knew a few when in in Little League where you're facing the same team when you started playing Legion Ball and and Tom where you're traveling, you knew basically the lead offers.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

I can't remember if it was you or Craig that had a rude uh interaction with the Steinbach brothers in uh several thousand feet of home runs off yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

Oh yeah, that was Terry Steinbach, not Terry. Tim. Not the one played the first, but his brother, but his brother played Pro Ball too. Three of them did, but yeah, we didn't you kind of knew their leadoff hitters gonna look at a lot of pitches and looking to get on base. Then you know two, three, four, five was their meet, two was like getting on base. So you kind of knew that just like it is now, you need to get the you really want to get the seven, eight, nine batters out. And on the flip side, when you're a team, when your seven, eight, nine batters produce, it's just that much better for you. But I pitched more as an I'm gonna I'm gonna dictate what I throw and you're gonna figure out instead of but you can see where they I paid attention where they lined up in the box.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Let me ask you this. Sorry, I'm just there's a million questions in my head that I just want to ask because I never had a chance, never talked to another person about this, but I never played at a level where I guessed or I even tried to guess or even had to guess. Because typically I could tell a curveball because at the level I played, curveballs look very spinny. And so, and so you didn't really have anything where it's like, oh, you know what? I can't, I either got to think fast, but I never got to that point. Did you ever get to that point where it's like I just gotta guess, or did you not get to that level? Did you just not hit? Did you just not hit?

SPEAKER_03 27:35

No, I hit a lot in town ball, and we'd play against, especially in the Western Wisconsin leagues and stuff, we'd play against a lot of teams that had college players as well. Uh if there was enough players, I'd get DH4 just to get more players in the game. But a lot of times we'd travel and there'd be nine of us. And you're hitting. You're hitting and you're pitching, and you're pitching the whole game. I'm out of gas. Good luck. Good luck with that. Hope they're hidden that people. You would be you kind of knew where you were in the lineup. You kind of knew the pitcher might say, He's battened or ninth. We're just gonna so it's like smart idea is to swing early because it's your best pitch. They might try to get a fastball by you to get ahead in the round.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

But they're really not gonna waste their time throwing off speed or I I was just a big dumb Ichiro. I would just try to just tap it into right field.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

Yeah, just get the thing go and get on base. I remember one time we were playing, it was Eau Claire, Wisconsin, and we were playing against this college pitcher, and he was throwing 90 to 94, and that was uh he got up there and you're like, I'm gonna get three strikes in on the first pitch and get up. But it I it was interesting as the game went on. You learn that they're very they got control, but it's not that much difference getting hit by an 85 an hour fastball, 92. So just stay in there.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

But it's it's the how fast do you think you threw in Little League? It was 45. What is it, 45-5? So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

Um, if you equivalent, it would have been about 80 from uh about 75 to 80, 80. You get it up there where you yeah, back even in Little League, yeah. Sometimes you just felt it, you were like locked in, and you could wear back and throw your dad like yeah, just don't throw the ball, pitch, pitch, and don't wear back. But sometimes you had it in you where you could bring it all and it was finding the strike zone. But then the other times you I know you watched a lot of times where I'd bring it all and it was yeah, all over the place. But yeah, I I the knowledge they have now. You read a lot about Greg Maddox talking about his art and how he set batters up. I'm gonna give him a hit here because there's two outs at the bottom of the second. I don't care because at the bottom of the ninth, I'm gonna get him on this pitch. And or the whenever he comes up again. But but the chatter thing too is when you develop because the game is beautiful, but it's methodical. And you gotta sit there and you hear the coaches, come on, you guys, talk it up out there.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Look alive, look alive. I was actually give your picture, give your picture some baseball is one of a sport where you spend a fair amount of time sitting around. Look alive, sit around. That's why professional baseball players do hot foots and make the rookies carry the Hello Kitty bag with the snacks to the because there's so much free time. If you're in the you were in the bullpen, you're sitting there all game. You gotta do something to entertain yourself, because honestly, watching your team play from the bullpen is not an entertaining way to spend your evening, but it's not bad either.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

But eating a lot of sunflower seeds and whatever, but um, so it's funny that look alive, like yeah, I didn't know I didn't know I looked dead out here, but yeah, and then come on, chatter it up, support your picture, and I will tell you this as a pitcher. Yeah, I didn't effing care.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

I didn't care.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

Shut up, don't shut up. But I know the coach is now wait.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Did you ever say it when you were a little league coach? Look alive, come on, let's hear it out there.

SPEAKER_03 31:15

I didn't say chatter up your pitcher. Yeah, I would say talk to your teammates so you're engaged in the game. Because that's the reason they wanted you to talk so you were focused in and the game in a boss game. So talk to your teammates, communicate because you don't see the chatter.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Two outs, two. I will do that on a baseball. I'll be in a ball game and I'll go two.

SPEAKER_03 31:39

You don't see this a lot of times in the pitchers, the whatever. Uh, I play with Craig Breichrates a lot, and he was the third. We had a lot of chatter, it wasn't eye contact looking at each other, chatter. There was a lot of chatter talking as I'm honing in on first, he'd say something to me funny, and I'd make a comment back. Or we had a couple signals for things we would do on pick-off plays and stuff like that, and that nobody knew about. And you had it this way with some of your other fielders are like they would a good infielder, especially you talk a lot with your shortstop, maybe short stops are general on the field, and they're running the show, but they also they can really help temper a pitcher's struggles and whatnot. Because you want to just see, hey, buddy, just just yeah, send her in, send her in down low. Throw me a ground ball, I'll get you out of this, buddy. I'll get you out of this, I'll get you out of this. So let me ask you.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

Sorry, I keep interrupting you, but it shouldn't be.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

No, no, you're good. So I was just gonna say, so a lot of the chatter we talk about, yeah, and then when another team jumps in on it, that's where you call rabbit ears. Hey, hey, hey Rabbiteers, you have enough problems to deal with in your dugout, shut down. But it's and and um when it comes to what they if you saw also college ball, the World Series, uh one of the games, the player for Georgia at a game earlier than the one we were talking about where the two brothers over the heel, he even ran backwards at a time from third to home, and the umps you're out. He just kicked him out. They call it taunting, which it ain't taunting because the other team doesn't care, but you can see him, you knew his mouth was flapping because of second baseball or the shortstop's going, what the F is wrong with you? Yeah, but just run the bases and shut up. Bud Grant said, pretend you know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Exactly. And you did don't you score a touchdown, don't act like you're surprised you scored.

SPEAKER_03 33:36

This kind of guy kind of reminded me of Booby Miles. I I did that, you know I did that. I'm great until you get humbled in an injury, cut you down, but he got kicked out of the game, and everyone's like going, that makes sense. Just shut up and run the bases.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

I heard a great story, and we're running long, but I love this story. So it's Will Clark. It's and it was about first baseman, like conversations you had with people on first base. And he says the best was Ricky. And he goes, We were playing. I remember a spring training game, we're playing, and Ricky's on first, and I don't know. They wanted hitters to get swings in spring training. They told Ricky to stay, and then I was just giving him a hard time. Ricky, can't believe they're disrespecting like you like that, not letting you steal, man. That's what you do, that's what Ricky does. And he's like, Oh no, no, no. Uh Ricky gone, thrill, Ricky gone. When so the next time, like, he's going. Next pitch they pitch out, he still gets it. And he goes, I told you, thrill, I told you, thrill. Ricky gone, Ricky gone.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

Yeah, it it's interesting. Oh, yeah. That you don't a lot of the stuff you don't hear, and it's funny, and it's a lot of and dugout to dugout and what you say to the ref. As a coach, pitch pretty much would say something. I'm like, quit talking. Why? Because you're in your kid's head and you don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, and it's hard enough to throw strikes. You can you go up there and throw strikes? I can't because then shut up.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Shut up, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 34:54

If anything, say, hey buddy, you got it. You're doing good. We love you. I'm willing to care. Don't say that proverbial, throw the ball over the plate. No shit.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

I will guarantee you, I know for a fact it was when my dad was coaching, and I bet you it is now that the biggest struggle for coaches is parents. Not players, not kids, it's parents.

SPEAKER_03 35:17

Your dad, this is the struggle I have with it too, is yeah, in the age of first it was emails and then it became text messages. Yeah. Parents can sit there and ravage you, and this and that. And I know a lot of coaches have quit, a lot of umpires are quit because they're like, I don't need this shit. I don't need this crap because it's not worth my time. And Ben does it. My son, Ben, umpires and refs, and he's I don't do it much anymore. It's because the parents are stupid, they're idiots, they ruin it for the kids who are just playing a game and want to have fun, and then you know the parents, oh, there's idiots dad talking again, or there's so and so and you know, you know the kids, it's like going, you know where it comes from, you know what I mean? A lot of times, like the the and then the kids a lot of times though they're the exact opposite of their dad because they don't want to be like their dad. That's true, that's true. That's true. Part of it is Ben would say it, and I'd say it too when I had to do something you're looking at. Ben would do it kind of nice when a just a dad from a team, and he'd walk over to the coach and say, Hey, yeah, I'm just trying to get paid here. I don't care who wins, who loses. I really don't care. If you want to know the honest to God truth, I want this game to go as quick as possible. Yep, I am not a huge dome, but I'm this is a game to learn how to hit. But he goes, also, tell that person in the stands to shut the hell up, yeah, or I'll run. Yeah, and then if they'll walk over there again, and then I've said it too. I walked up to the fence on the dead. I go, so that's your kid on the mound. You don't like him, huh? What do you mean I don't like him? Because I can control if it's a ball or a strike if I want to. And you ripping on me affects not only the way he's pitching, but what gets called with the generosity and not. So your best bet is when your kid's on the mound to shut your mouth because it's hard enough beat up.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

Exactly. Yeah, the thing the reality is think about it, right? What kind of example are you setting up? Why are they making it? And for some of them, they're living the they're reliving their glory days through their kids. Some of them they think that they've got a meal ticket or whatever, and they want to turn them into a pro. And for some, maybe that's the right course, but it's like it's not the start with the fact that you're gonna pay for your kids' college.

SPEAKER_03 37:39

And if something else changes it, good for you.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

What's the sign I saw to Little League Field? It says there were there are no scouts here. Just have fun, just let your kids have fun. It's about them, it's not about you. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 37:50

If they're meant to get drafted, they will, or if they're meant to go on to college, they will be found. It's not the age where I went and you had to send in VHS tapes and you're talking. Yeah, we just showed up and said, gonna make the team. We're not on a radar. Well, I'll soon be on your radar. Yeah, and find a way to get me off the team.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

It's Jose Altuve showing up. No, you didn't cut me. That was a different kid you cut yesterday. He's way shorter than me. But it's like going, it's just showing up, and you know what, thinking you may be on the one-yard line, so keep going. Showing up and keeping going.

SPEAKER_03 38:22

That's you know, it's funny too, is talking to other players, especially when I gave up a bomb. And it just happened. And I've said this before, especially at night, when you're on the bump, and in our baseball podcast, we'll talk about baseball vernacular, where the bump came from.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

The bump, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:38

And but it seemed like the spotlight's shining on you more, and it's a night game. And when you get tattooed, there's no place to go.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 38:50

So I'd made a habit of like the runners going around going, that one probably deserved a stewardess on that flight that was well hit. But you know what? You got a couple more, I got a couple more cracks at you. But Tim Steinbach, he was the younger brother of Terry Steinbach, and they played for Hamill. Hamill always had a bunch of big league runners.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

What do we call those? Ringers?

SPEAKER_03 39:12

Ringers. And we did too. I played for Botten, I played for a couple other teams that we would get the lot down, they get college players or some ex-pros.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

But that's the town team tradition, right? Going way back and they would get one more than 100 bucks.

SPEAKER_03 39:28

Hamill was just known for you want to play for Hamill, they travel a lot, they play a lot, and and they played their home field was like 301 down the right field line. Like not even, I don't even think it was 300 on the right field. It was short. And so Tim Steinbach, first time up, gets a good one. That's gonna make it out of most parks. The second time up barely cleared the fence. Third time up after Vandekamp, I can't remember, Van something. He played for the Gophers. He played somebody, he was a lefty. He hit one so far foul, like my whole team's like going. You know that ball's still going, and this is 20 years later. But so Tim Steinbach had three home runs off of me. One was legit, one was half the parts, and the other one was it wouldn't have made it out of any other part. The fourth time, and the third one, they're like, the fourth time up, they're like, don't pitch to him. I go, I tried not to pitch to him the last time up. He hit a slider eight inches off the plate and almost on the ground.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

So basically he Kelly leaked to that bad boy.

SPEAKER_03 40:38

Yeah, he did the old Guerrero, Vladimir Guerrero, would swing that thing from his knees and launch it. Or Buxton's home run, or actually this kid for Oklahoma's home run looked like Daryl Strawberry when he would hit that low outside pitch. It looks like it's on the ground, and he'd pull it, and you're like going, that is a 410-foot bomb off a pitch that he shouldn't have hit. Yeah. Whatever.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

But it all right, buddy. So our park bench perspectives, baseball deep dive is running long. So I think we should cut it short here. You and I are gonna be in St. Louis Park this week. Come hell or high water, and we're gonna record and we'll set up and we will look for our launch of the Square Box Baseball Podcast.

SPEAKER_03 41:24

Cool, buddy. You have a good one. I appreciate everybody out there listening. Spread the word. I know we do baseball laden stuff, but there's so many. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

We really want to do interviews, please. We really want to do interviews. We want to do a meetup, but we want to hear other people's stories because as fun as I love my stories are, I'm gonna start repeating them. And so we need other people on here to let us know what it was like growing up in St. Louis Barber.

SPEAKER_03 41:48

You know what? Real quick, the fun thing about doing baseball is my sister's a big baseball fan. They kind of grow up because you watch your kid as a parent, whatever. But baseball covers so many genders, age groups, and everything because it's a beautiful story. All right, buddy.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

Uh sounds good. We'll record here soon.

SPEAKER_03 42:05

And how we go out?

SPEAKER_01 42:07

Yeah. Sounds good. Here we go. Oh, Hammer and Carlos. Out! Watching all the world go by now.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

Underneath the hazy sky now. Got my ticket for the long ride. Yeah, from my park bench perspective, got that white idea. Park bench perspective, help me.