Ep 9 Nature Vs Nurture (Part 1)

🧬 Are we unique individuals… or just recycled DNA with WiFi access?

In Part 1 of Nature Vs Nurture, we spiral into the weird and wonderful world of genetics, inherited traits, and whether our personalities are actually our own… or just biologically pre-installed.

We dive into famous cases of identical twins raised apart, the wildly creepy similarities they shared, and ask the ultimate question: are we shaped by nature or nurture?

We also uncover some of the traits we’ve clearly inherited (unfortunately), get Mandy back on the phone, and use the Sorting Hat to settle our sisterly similarities once and for all.

This episode covers:

• Nature vs nurture psychology
• Identical twins raised apart
• Genetic traits and inherited behaviour
• DNA, personality, and sibling similarities
• Donor conception and biological identity
• Real-life donor conceived experiences

Educational? Slightly.
Unhinged? Absolutely.

🎙️ Sperm Sisters Podcast
🎧 Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts & YouTube
👉 Follow for more donor conception stories, DNA discoveries, and sister-led chaos.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Doobida Spam sisters.

SPEAKER_04 0:17

This is a story about sisters. Just not the kind that you're expecting. Three years ago, we were strangers, living separate lives.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

Now we know we're biological sisters, connected by the same sperm donor. And that's just the beginning.

SPEAKER_05 0:32

This podcast dives headfirst into the how, the why, and the uncomfortable questions no one seems to want to answer.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

Uncovering secrets the medical world would rather keep buried. How many donor-conceived people are there really?

SPEAKER_04 0:44

No one can give a straight answer. Not the clinics, not the system, no one. So, how many siblings could be walking past us every day without a clue?

SPEAKER_03 0:54

It's messy, it's shocking. At times it's almost impossible to believe. And somehow, it's also really funny.

SPEAKER_05 1:02

Come with us as we dig deeper, ask the uncomfortable questions, and laugh our way through the chaos of discovering who we really are. And just how many of us there might be.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Coming up on this week's episode of Sperm Sisters.

SPEAKER_04 1:24

Both of their adoptive parents called them James, unknowingly, to each other. Both had childhood dogs named Toy. How old is that?

SPEAKER_03 1:35

We get Mandy back on the phone.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

I'm not sure. There might have been three or four.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

Okay. Oh, that's not as bad. That's not as bad. And can we find sisterly similarities with the sorting cat?

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Ravencloth.

SPEAKER_05 1:54

Ravencloth.

SPEAKER_04 1:56

Ah, yes. That well-known house, Ravencloth. Welcome back to the podcast. Yay, yay, yay, yay! Thank you, Helen. We thought. No, no, should we introduce ourselves? Yeah. We always say that, and it's always me who always says, let's introduce ourselves. Yes. Yes. Yes. Should we go? Let's go youngest to eldest this time. That's me. My name's Helen, and I'm 35 years old. Hello, little sister. I'm your middle sister. And my name is Gemma, and I am how old are we? 36. We're 36.

SPEAKER_05 2:36

And I'm the oldest, eldest, and I'm Natasha. Also 35. Also 36.

SPEAKER_04 2:43

Very fat. Wait. Also 36. Okay. Welcome back to the podcast, everybody. Today we're talking about one of humanity's oldest debates: nature versus nurture. And what I also want to say is, hilariously, for the nature versus nurture thing, when we arrived today, I saw Nat's notes and was like, nah, fuck.

SPEAKER_05 3:10

What are you doing?

SPEAKER_04 3:12

And she'd also planned nature versus nurture.

SPEAKER_05 3:16

Coincidental. Or is it that's the thing?

SPEAKER_04 3:21

Nature versus the first one. Maybe that was just nature. So what we're gonna do is be a part one, part two, because actually I think we've covered different things. So we hope. We'll find out. Well, we don't know. Are you ready for my little spiel? Yeah. Are we shaped more by genetics or by the people, places, trauma, culture, and weird internet access that raised us? Because if your donor conceived, this question gets very real very fast. You grow up thinking your personality is entirely your own, and then one day you meet a biological sibling who laughs like you, talks with their hands like you, has the same oddly specific fear of wet socks, and suddenly DNA starts feeling a little too powerful. At the same time, we all know genetics can't explain everything. Otherwise, every child raised in Britain would become either David Beckham or just emotionally unavailable. So today we're diving into the famous nature versus nurture case studies, separated twins with terrifyingly similar lives, whether talent is inherited, is personality genetic, and why don't it conceive people seem uniquely qualified to spiral about all of this? We'll also be asking the important scientific questions. Can you inherit music taste? Is being chronically late genetic? And at what point is it weird to laugh in the same way at things that definitely aren't funny? So, whether you believe humans are shaped by DNA, environment, or simply years of emotional damage and access to Wi-Fi, welcome. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_05 5:04

What a gorgeous style. Really lovely.

SPEAKER_04 5:06

Also, I never felt so seen. I'm really aware I'm about to have my mind blown in all my face. Also, by the way, I don't think any of us have a fear of wet socks.

SPEAKER_05 5:17

No. I felt when you said it, I was like, have we talked about this? Who's scared of wet socks?

SPEAKER_04 5:23

Not I, but I was like also kind of I couldn't think of anything that we're all scared of. We'll find out. But we will find out. That's for your one, I mean actually. Spiders, yeah, I don't like spiders. Spiders are awful. Do either of you actually know anything about where like nature versus nurture uh facts or where it sort of comes from at all? No, I literally I don't know anything about this, but it's always fascinated me. Yes, I. But I feel like I've never gone down the rabbit hole because I don't think I'd ever get out of it. Like it because you could just keep on going with it, couldn't you?

SPEAKER_05 5:57

Yeah. If you pass me my cards, I might be able to tell you exactly what it is.

SPEAKER_04 6:04

Wait for part two. Um, well, what I will say is just simplifying it is obviously are you born a certain way, or does your environment and childhood experiences create you as a person? So that's the main thing to think of. Oh, wait, before we do it, what do you actually think? Do you think it's nature or nurture? Like how you are who you are. I think it's a bit of both. You think a bit of both.

SPEAKER_05 6:35

What, 50-50?

SPEAKER_04 6:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:37

Yeah, 50-50. But maybe not by the end of this.

SPEAKER_04 6:40

Yeah, I'm sorry. Like but for now, you both think 50-50. We'll go with 50-50. Yes. I'm gonna I don't know. Sorry. I feel like you're looking at me as if I know what's the law. I also don't know. I would personally go more 80-20. To what? Nature. Really? Yeah, I think so. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

So you're 80-20, we're 50-50. Okay, let's see.

SPEAKER_04 7:09

And I'll re-ask you at the end then. Yeah, yeah, that's great. Or if you're listening along, obviously right now or watching or whatever, at this point, give us your predictions.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Do you think it's gonna be 50-50 and comment again with what you think it's gonna be at the end?

SPEAKER_04 7:29

Love it. One of the most famous examples is the case study of the Jim twins, often used in discussions about nature versus nurture, because it's just become absolutely legendary. It's been studied from uh 1979 researchers at the University of Minnesota. There were identical twin brothers who were both adopted at four weeks old, but raised by entirely different families, and then reintroduced to one another at 39 years old. So the similarities were bizarre enough when they met up again at age 39 that this story has actually become legendary. Obviously, both of their adoptive parents called them James, unknowingly, to each other. Both had childhood dogs named Toy. How old is that? Yeah. Which also I've never heard of a dog called Toy. And that definitely sounds like, you know, parents saying, What do you want to call your new puppy? Toy Toy. Right. They both married women named Linda.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

What?

SPEAKER_04 8:40

Yeah, no, this is a hundred percent true. Well, they both then later mar married women named Betty, and then they both had sons with very similar names, both worked in law enforcement-related jobs, both liked woodworking, both drove similar cars, both had tension headaches and both bit their nails. Oh my god. I think the dog called Toy is the weirdest one, personally. That's yes, because it's a shit name anyway.

SPEAKER_05 9:15

That is bizarre.

SPEAKER_04 9:16

Yeah. And like you say, it does feel like they've gone, what do you want to call the dog?

SPEAKER_05 9:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:19

And they've all gone to one. Researchers obviously use this case to argue that genetics clearly in that scenario strongly influence personality, interests, habits, intelligence, and even some social behaviours. So because of the two gyms and how mad that story is, that's when there was like a larger Minnesota study of twins reared apart, and that they wanted to study twins raised separately to estimate how much of human behaviour is inherited. So that's like the catalyst. The situation is the catalyst for all of this. Well, no, no, not really, because there's there's also been things by like Charles Charles Darwin. I don't have enough of the information, but Charles Darwin's cousin was one of the first ones who started talking about nature versus nurture. Oh, interesting. Yeah, so this has gone back ages. Hundreds of years. Ages, whenever Darwin was about just ages, basically. But in America, for like more um, you know, relatable or crazy studies where people are actively researching it, that was 79. Okay. Well, I was gonna ask, what pets did you have when you were little?

SPEAKER_05 10:44

Um I had a cat called Fred. No.

SPEAKER_04 10:51

No, we didn't have a cat. We didn't have a cat, no. Is that it? Yeah. You only had one cat? Yeah.

unknown 10:59

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 11:00

Lived a long life. Well, actually, cats do live an awfully long time. What did you have? Dogs? Dogs and fish. I knew you were gonna say fish. Yeah, but our goldfish kept dying all the time, didn't they?

SPEAKER_05 11:11

Yeah, so we had a few goldfish.

SPEAKER_04 11:12

Oh, what were they called?

SPEAKER_05 11:14

Oh, like Goldie. Oh, well, I don't think they ever like survived long enough for them to like really have names.

SPEAKER_04 11:23

Mine was always called Rosie. Yeah, we did as well. Isn't that terrible if that was the thing? Yeah. Exciting though. Helen had about six six different goldfish, and they were all called Rosie, but Helen thought they were the same fish. And she'd go down in the morning because Mum actually went to like the pets at home of the day to go and get our top-up. Oh, top-up fish. Because Rosie would always die. And then Helen would come down in the morning, little trot download. And then she'd be like, Why's Rosie sleeping? And then Mum would go like, Oh, I'm not sure. She's probably just having a lion or something like that. Mum would go like Fuck! Drop Helen off at preschool, rush to the pet shop, and then Helen would come back and be like, ah, she's so big, but she looks fatter this time. Oh, she's just eaten a lot, darling. So, yeah, Helen. But that was that was one from a fair. Well, I mean, obviously, there's been the original Rosie was from a fair. So, like a traditional gold, yeah, goldfish, goldfish. How long did she last the original? The lie. Oh. Oh, sorry, no. I I thought Rosie was the same Rosie for years, I think. Oh Cole Mandy. Hello. Can I ask you a question, please? You know when we were little and I had Rosie the goldfish? How many Rosies were there?

SPEAKER_01 13:10

I'm not sure there might have been three or four.

SPEAKER_04 13:15

Okay. Oh, that's not as that's not as bad. How how long did you have to keep that up for?

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Until we got Barney. Is that why we got a dog?

SPEAKER_04 13:36

So did you just wait for Rosie the Fourth to pass and then we went and got Barney?

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:46

Okay, great. Can you remember what Gemma's fish were called?

SPEAKER_02 13:54

No.

SPEAKER_04 13:56

Did they all survive?

SPEAKER_02 13:59

No, those didn't survive either. She had um Sparkle once, I think.

SPEAKER_04 14:05

I had I can remember the names. The first one was called Pearly because she was pearl coloured. The second one was called Torty because she was Tortoise Shell. And the third one was called Silvery because she was silver.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Silvery, not sparkle, that's it.

SPEAKER_04 14:25

Get it right, man.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

I spent my mornings while you were at a playgroup going round the different aquariums to try and get matching roses.

SPEAKER_04 14:39

Oh, that's lovely. Thank you for doing that. I'm so glad you loved your second child to bother. Did you ever bother replacing Silvery or not worth it? No denial. Thanks, Mum. Thanks, Mum.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Okay, darling. Love you, bye. Bye.

SPEAKER_04 15:02

She hung up on me. She has seen. No, I was kind of hoping for a moment where we would all have the same pet. But we went unless the same theme of colours. Yes. Hello. Well, well, but it's an important caveat to say that the gym twins didn't prove that nature wins. Okay? So modern scientists would say that twin studies show genetics matter a lot, but they do not prove that nurture is unimportant. So obviously, they've only grown up 40 miles away from one another. Right. If I'm gonna be annoying, we don't know if there wasn't like a TV programme of the time that had a dog called Toy. Oh yeah. Cultural. How many Lindas are there? Americans. American. That ain't no how. How many bloody Lindas are there? Um but do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. So in fact, what we can now surmise from this one case study. That word blew you away then. Yeah. Surmise? Surmise. So it shows that intelligence appears influenced by both genes and environment. So going back to your 50-50, personality traits are partially heritable, but things like political beliefs, mental health risks, hobbies can all have genetic components. And environment still strongly shapes outcomes, opportunities, value, trauma responses, and identity. Right. Again, I'm not really gonna touch too much on that because I think that leads more into your one. Okay. So I'm gonna leave it. Yeah, lovely. So instead, I'm not gonna give you some famous people examples of nature versus nurture. Yeah! We can decide if we think they are nature or nurture as to why they are who they are. Okay. Do you want do you want a musical one or a sports one first? Music! My music one. Mozart. Was Mozart gifted or was he basically just homeschooled into being Mozart? Gifted. Gifted, because wasn't he like five or something when he wrote his first? He was a genius. He was a genius. Well, okay, so he was a musical prodigy, yes. And he had exceptional auditory memory. Do you want to actually know a cool fact about Mozart?

SPEAKER_05 17:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:45

Okay. So there's this choral piece that used to only be performed in the, I believe it was the Vatican, and it was never sung outside of the Vatican. And he basically was 14 at the time, went to the Vatican, listened to it, and he left and remembered it perfectly and wrote it all down at 14. So he did have like an insane memory. Why didn't we get that gene? Speak for yourself, I'm sick at pears. So those are my obviously arguments for Mozart being nature. However, on the flip side of that, his dad was a music teacher. He had intensive training since early childhood and obviously grew up immersed in music. Right. So what do you think then? Well, what do you think? I I I do think it's nature. I think that's nature. Yeah. I think he was. I mean, I also think it's nature to be honest.

SPEAKER_05 18:53

Yeah, so don't fight it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:57

Like for for example, we know that all of us are quite creative. Yes, very. None of us do like a sorry, it's not boring to work in an office at all. I just think like none of us would do well in that environment.

SPEAKER_05 19:13

I mean, I've tried working in an office and I did it for about three weeks. It's less about it being an office, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 19:19

It's about like the the like data. I also think like a very strict routine of processing. Yeah. It's definitely a processing issue that we all share. It's a processing issue.

SPEAKER_05 19:32

That's spot on.

SPEAKER_04 19:33

LeBron James. Um, the way he's built, he was built for elite genetics for athleticism with his height, his coordination, and physical endurance. Yeah. But there's an argument for nurture because again, he was subjected to like extreme training from childhood. He had really easy access to coaching and competition and had um an obsessive work ethic.

SPEAKER_05 19:59

Well, that I think that's nature, isn't it? That like obsessive work ethic. I think that that's nature. And I think the fact that he was tall is obviously nature, but a lot of it is nurture, I think.

SPEAKER_04 20:13

Which I guess is the same if you think about like um Lewis Hamilton. Didn't his dad really, really push for like loads training? William sisters, they were coached by their dad from like as soon as they could stand and hold a racket. Well the Jacksons. Yes, that's some fun. Yeah, the Kardashians? Oh Nat hates them. I do.

SPEAKER_05 20:47

Why do you hate them so much? I just said, what have they haven't brought anything positive to the world? No, I d I like they haven't. That's a fair point, they haven't. Why do you like them?

SPEAKER_04 21:00

I just absolutely why just stick it in my veins. I love reality TV.

SPEAKER_05 21:08

Yeah, but I you know that I love reality TV.

SPEAKER_04 21:11

Yeah, so why you don't like them? I don't understand.

SPEAKER_05 21:13

I just can't bear them. It's not the sort of reality TV I like.

SPEAKER_04 21:18

What kind of reality TV? You like sunsets and selling sunsets. That's maybe different. That is different. Is it? Have you watched it? Yeah. Different. It is different. But it's like a similar vibe. Absolutely not. Yeah, it's not. And there's less Machiavellian narcissists in there. Granted, you have to be some level of narcissist to be in a show like that. There's the next fucking level that I don't think McAvelian himself would have imagined that the Kardashians would ever top him. In theory, like it's just not Thank you. Sorry, I respect Christian. You've got to think about what she came from, and she's now created a business empire through selling her kids. Selling her children. Yeah, I think she's a fucking great person. I'm not saying she's nice, but I'm saying you do have to. She's a business woman, like she's not the ultimate businesswoman, sure. And it's quite it's just quite fascinating. It is, it is fascinating, but I wouldn't like have you seen all the stuff with Northwest now? Northwest. As in the direction. And they're like launching her now. I think it's so wrong. Just let kids be kids. Yeah, but I know. I was wearing a gap hoodie and I was wearing the cap of poppers. Yeah, you know. Oh she that's quite cool. I think capa poppers is very cool. The capa poppers. I was heavily into Harry Potter and had a Harry Potter cap.

unknown 22:57

Cap?

SPEAKER_04 22:58

What Harry Potter house would you be in? Yeah, but you two both hate Harry Potter as well. I know what house I'd be in, though. I fucking know as well. What would you be? Say it on the same thing. I know. Hufflepuff. Oh sorry. That's so obvious though.

SPEAKER_05 23:11

I was gonna say Hufflepuff. For you. What are we gonna say? Ravenclaw. That's the best one. What were we about to say? Oh, that's the the nasty ones are in. No slithering. Ah, yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Ravenclough.

SPEAKER_05 23:31

Ravenclaw.

SPEAKER_04 23:33

Ah yes. That well known house, Ravenclough. I'd be in Huffle Schmuff.

SPEAKER_05 23:46

Um schmuff.

SPEAKER_04 23:50

I think you'd be Gryffindor personally. Why? They're such goody goodies. Yes. Yes. They fucking find out.

SPEAKER_05 23:57

You'd be Gryffindor.

SPEAKER_04 23:58

What? You would be though. No, I fucking don't. Go find it. Why would I be a Gryffindor? Do you think I'd be in Huffle Puff? Yes. Sorry, do you think LeBron James is nature versus nature or no?

SPEAKER_05 24:18

I think I'm gonna go nurture more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:23

I think nurture. Yeah. I'd say probably 70% nurture, 30% nature.

SPEAKER_05 24:31

Yeah. That's nice.

SPEAKER_04 24:33

Thank you. Ted Bundy. Oh. Oh. Do you know who Ted Bundy is? I can see you be like, when do I announce I don't know who that is? He's a bad guy. He's a real bad guy. Yeah, it'd be in Slytherin. What did he do again? Ted Bundy killed loads of like um young women. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Zach Efron was just Bundy. The nature argument would be some researchers point to the fact that obviously he has or had, I don't know if he's dead or not, but he had a lot of superficial charm, a complete lack of empathy, because obviously he's a possible psychopath. Impulsivity and was incredibly manipulative. So that's probably nature. I say that's nature. Nature, but do we know about his childhood? Well, was he abused or something? Yeah. He experienced very unstable early identity issues, discovering that his sister was actually his mum. Oh. And he had lots of like childhood emotional disturbances, so he was exposed to violence and pornography. Which he later blamed himself for, though experts dispute that. Okay. That's quite interesting. So that's all quite weird.

SPEAKER_05 25:58

So whether he was like trying to So maybe he was like predisposed predisposed to mental health.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

Yeah. Maybe there's a lot of stuff that's in us, but only if we are exposed to stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:18

It's drawn out and then it becomes nurture. I think you probably also have to think about like the side of that um addiction as well, because addiction is obviously an inherited trait. Yeah. But probably if you grow up in a household that's seen that a lot. If you've been exposed to drug addiction or something along those lines and you have that gene, you are, I'm assuming, more likely to follow the pattern. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:49

Yet if you were, for example, donor-conceived and you had the addiction gene inherited, but you weren't brought up in an environment where there was drug addiction, maybe it wouldn't present itself.

SPEAKER_04 27:06

But would that then present itself in a different way, like gambling? Because that's an addictive thing.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:11

If you live down the road from a You don't always have to be addicted to drugs. You can be addicted to like online shopping, you can be just like food addiction, anything.

SPEAKER_05 27:20

Could you know rear its head in another form?

SPEAKER_04 27:22

Now, do you think that you have an addictive personality?

SPEAKER_05 27:26

No. No. I don't think so. I don't stick with things for very long. It's a major flaw of mine. But do you think you have? I don't think well, I don't think you do.

SPEAKER_04 27:41

Um I've got a slight addictive personality. Like I I can get obsessive about things, I think. Not obsessive, like in a freaky way, but it's in like um I used to be addicted to Sims all the time. You were so addicted to Sims. Yes. Sims. I remember crying one Christmas Eve because we used to share a room on Christmas Eve, and Gemma would not get off the computer playing Sims. And I ended up going, You're ruining Christmas. Every Christmas now, whenever something mild happens, you're ruining Christmas! Yeah, she was a you were fully addicted to Sims.

SPEAKER_05 28:23

Have you ever got addicted to anything?

SPEAKER_04 28:25

Online shopping, buying bags. Bags. I went I did go through a phase of continuously buying bags. She bought a bag a week at one point. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just was obsessed with buying bags. Also, when I went to uni, I kept eating cream cheese and cherry tomato sandwiches, and that's like all I ate. Because I just I liked them. Yeah. And then I was like, I'll have that for tea. And that's all I ate for like a good year. Yeah. I got addicted to nasal sprays for eight years.

SPEAKER_05 28:57

You told me about this.

SPEAKER_04 28:59

Yeah. And then I got my friends hooked as well. Because basically. But you have to go cool, me.

SPEAKER_05 29:07

You gotta try this. It's called Otravine.

SPEAKER_03 29:12

Other brands are available. Um, yeah, basically, it's the most middle class addiction other than cocaine.

SPEAKER_04 29:18

Um, because yes, it's up the nose. So I went skiing and I had a cold or something I couldn't breathe at the time, and I don't know where I got it from, but I had some Otravine and I used it too often, and then for eight years I was still on it. Just like just every four hours I had to use it. No, yeah, I was addicted to that. She would panic if she couldn't find it in a bag. I would get to the point where I was like, I couldn't like breathe properly because I'd I'd be freaking out. The old bottles used to just be like not like the plunge ones, like you know, those types of bottles, they were like screw top ones and like a flimsy plastic bottle.

SPEAKER_05 30:02

If I was out, I would get the dregs and I'd cut a bottle open and tip it up my nose.

SPEAKER_04 30:11

So to answer a question, yeah, I've got an addictive personality.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

I can't yeah, it was that bad.

SPEAKER_04 30:25

And I did go cold turkey and I had the worst headaches and withdrawal symptoms. I had to take like two days off work. Yeah, wow. That is terrible. There will be like a thing about that in the future, I think. Yeah, it's already, it's already coming out now. It's like a it's it's meds it's a medication beginning with X. Okay, so after all that then, I mean that's been pretty eye-opening from Gemma anyway.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

I got it.

SPEAKER_04 30:58

I'm good for a bit. Do what do you think now then? Do you think it you're still 50-50 nature versus nurture, or are you swinging more to one or one or together? I'm still 50-50, I think.

SPEAKER_05 31:13

Maybe after part two that might change.

SPEAKER_04 31:15

Okay. Yeah, I'm still 50-50, I think. Uh it's made me think about it more like, yeah, I do think that if you are exposed to things, you're more likely to draw that trait out.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:27

Rather than it being instilled into you. You can be hardwired to a good work ethic, but unless you see an example of it, you wouldn't know how to instruct it. Exactly. That's good. Very good. Very good. Well, thanks for listening, everybody. Don't forget to share, like, subscribe because it massively helps us and our reach.

SPEAKER_03 31:49

And we would love to know what you think in the comments about uh the 50-50. Do you agree with me in that, or do you think it's also 80 20? Like Helen, let us know, and we'll see you in part two Nature versus Nurture.

SPEAKER_04 32:07

Bye.