Ep 11 Viking Sperm

How many children can one Viking sperm donor really create? The answer is probably more than you're comfortable with.

In this episode of Sperm Sisters, Gemma takes us on the fictional journey of Danish sperm donor Sven Spermerson. Based on real-world sperm donation practices, fertility industry trends, and current research, we follow Sven's donations across borders to discover just how far one donor's DNA can travel - and just how many families can be created along the way.

Along the route, we explore the realities of modern sperm donation, international fertility clinics, and the growing number of donor-conceived siblings connecting through DNA testing.

Fair warning: there are wildly offensive Scandinavian accents throughout. We apologise to Denmark in advance.

This episode covers:

• Donor conception and sperm donation
• International sperm banks and fertility clinics
• Donor sibling networks
• DNA testing and biological connections
• Fertility industry regulations
• The global impact of a single sperm donor

For those new here, Sperm Sisters follows the story of three donor-conceived sisters who found each other as adults. Through humour, honesty, research, and real-life experiences, we're exploring donor conception, identity, DNA discovery, and the fertility industry - one chaotic conversation at a time.

🎙️ Sperm Sisters Podcast – Viking Sperm
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Transcript

0:00

Do-bi-da-ba-ba-ba-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da

Intro

0:06

Sisters. This is a story about sisters. Just not the kind that you're expecting. Three years ago, we were strangers, living separate lives. Now we know we're biological sisters, connected by the same sperm donor. And that's just the beginning. This podcast dives headfirst into the how, the why, and the uncomfortable questions no one seems to want to answer. Uncovering secrets the medical world would rather keep buried. How many donor-conceived people are there really? No one can

Coming Up

0:46

give a straight answer. Not the clinic, not the system, no one. So, how many siblings could be walking past us every day without a clue? It's messy, it's shocking. At times it's almost impossible to believe. And somehow, it's also really funny. Come with us. As we dig deeper, ask the uncomfortable questions and laugh our way through the chaos of discovering who we really are. And just how many of us there might be. Coming up on this week's episode of Sperm Sisters. We invent a fictional Danish donor to trace how his sperm might travel around the world. Can we give him a name? The Dane? Of course we can. What would you like to call him? Sven Siemenson. Sven Stevenson. And we apologize now for our terrible attempt to accent. Let's say 20. No, let's say 10. 10. We say 10. We said 10. Sorry. Stop fiddling those figures. Oh sorry, don't be on this. Strap on in. Let's start the show. Right, shall we start off? I'm going to do the usual thing. Who are we? It wouldn't be a sperm sister episode without me saying to say who we are, guys. Tell the public. Do you want to go first? Yeah, sure, why not? My name is Gemma, and I'm the

Meet the Sperm Sisters

2:19

middle sister. I'm 36. I'm Helen, and I'm the youngest of the three sisters, and I'm 35. And I am Natasha, and I'm the eldest, and I'm also 36, the same as Gemma. Welcome back to this current episode of Sperm Sisters, where I will be taking you through a game. A game called Higher or Lower the Viking Edition. Um name some Viking stuff. I don't know any. No, I'm not big on the Vikings. Well, you're gonna be. You are a bit Viking though, aren't you? Me? Yeah, yeah, you must be, because we're a bit Viking, no? Well, I must be then. Check your records.

You're a Viking

3:12

They always update. I think I can't because I deleted it because we were all supposed to delete it. Not on Ancestry. Oh no, you're not on it. I forget. I forget. With this game, I thought it would be quite fun to work out how many children a super popular sperming dame has created in current day, right this second, because Denmark are the most popular exporters of sperm. Perhaps it's because it's the Viking gene, that's what people think sometimes, it's good quality stuff. Who knows? But the reason why we're playing this version of the game is because all the

The Higher or Lower Game

4:00

countries, the majority of countries around the world, now have some form of rules and regulations in place to monitor what sperm is going to what families and how many children are being created from that sperm. I say some countries. You're going to find out the ones that do and the ones that have a little bit of legwork to go. Now, we have the rules and regulations set in place in the UK from the HFEA, which stands for the human fertilization. Of authority. Yeah. Let's imagine that we have our dame. He's just donated, he's gone to a sperm bank. He's a popular man, and a lot of people from different countries, different fertility clinics in different countries have gone to this sperm bank to say, we would like to buy a pot from here, and we want to go to this country. Now, the higher or lower bit of this game is how many families in each of those countries with those fertility clinics can use our Danish sperm. Can we give him a name, the Dane? Of course we can. What would you like to call him? Like something game, something game of thrones. No, that's Roman. Should I go on chat chat GPT and Sven Siemenson? Sven Siemenson. Yes. That is so good. That is good.

Meet Sven

5:41

Do Sven Siemenson. At the end of this game, where I list different countries with their limits, we will work out how many children have been conceived by Sven Spermanson. Is this how I is that his name? No, don't because my pelvic floor is so bad. It basically was that still works. It still works. Sven Spermanson. I like it. Sven Spermanson. Okay. Sven, I'm just gonna write his name down. Sven Spermanson. Sure. So Mr. Sven Spermanson has gone along to his local sperm bank. He's donated, and ring ring! It's the UK! This is our first country. I feel like we're on Eurovision. Yeah, I did just then. UK calling. This game has so many levels. Right. How many families can use Sven sperm and some sperm? I mean, we already know this, don't we? Go

Sven's Sperm in the UK

6:47

on, Nat. 10. Lovely. The UK have said that 10 families can have as many siblings together using Sven's sperm. Now that means that if we're going by the average of family sizes, say two children on average, we're looking at 20 mini Svens running around UK playgrounds within the next couple of years. So our number at the moment, and I'll do something on the screen, nice and fancy here. 20 ding ding ding. Top of the lead board. That is already quite a lot when you think about it. Like if you met if you met someone in the traditional sense and was like, oh, how many brothers and sisters do you have? And they said they were one of 20. You would be like, what the fuck? Who's that family in the UK who have like a mad amount of kids? Oh, it's like the Channel 5 program. Of course it's Channel 5. I can't remember, but but anyway, they've made like national news because of how many kids they have. I can't I can't remember. That's but that's basically what what it is. That's yeah, that's a sibling cohort at the moment, but of on average 20. I would say this has already trumped that family. Okay, higher or lower, the next country we'll be travelling to. Get your passports,

Dutch Svens

8:17

everyone. We're going to the Netherlands. Just for the weekend, cheap flights, easy jet. Now, how many families are allowed to use Sven Spermanson sperm? Higher or lower than the UK? This is really tricky, you know, because a part of me feels like it's totally unregulated there. But looking up to your face, I think fast. It's gonna be higher. Helen, what do you think? I also now think higher. Correct. It's 12 families. Just marginally higher. But again, if we're using the average of two children per family, we're now looking at 24 children from the Netherlands. 24 mini Sven's running around the Netherlands. Now you might be thinking Oh, this is disturbing me already. Wow. There's only two countries. Uh-huh. Okay, so if we go back

Scandal in the Netherlands

9:31

a little bit, the reason why you think it might be higher, and you'll be right in thinking so, the Netherlands recently had a huge scandal where they ignored the rules and exceeded limits. And some of these donors fathered between 50 to 75 children. Oh no. Oh no. Oh, sticky business. That's gross. Yeah. Why do we think it's gross? Perhaps touch on that because I'm aware that there are some people who are going through fertility treatment potentially at the moment who are listening to this. We're not having a pop. We wish you all the best, but we would just want people to learn from the mistakes of the past from our generation of donor-conceived kids where there were no rules and were no regulations in place to keep it all above

Fertility

10:26

board, you know. Why do we think it's quite icky that there are 50 to 75 children per donor in this scandal? It's specifically in the Netherlands. Yes. Um, just because of again, where if people have gone to a specific clinic there, geographically, probably those 50 to 70 will live quite close by. Huge risk, as we now know from that genetic sibling attraction study of accidental inbreeding. Yes. So GSA. What does that sound for? What's that? Genetic sexual attraction. Ah, and that is part of the Westmark theory. And if you haven't listened to that episode, go back and have a listen. I'll put a link in the show notes because

Genetic Sexual Attraction

11:19

apparently that's what you do when you produce a podcast. I read it today. You put the link to previous episodes and it boosts you. Ah. That's fantastic. That's pretty good to know. That's cool. That's cool. That is so good. That's great. So we're so we're now at 44. I'm gonna total it all up. Yeah. I think leave it till the end. Leave it total to the end. Okay. Right. We're not traveling too far. We're still staying within Europe. So unfortunately, with our British passports, it's still going

We Go To Denmark

11:58

to be hell on earth at border control. But we are off to Denmark, back to Sven's homeland. Now, how many families, higher or lower than the Netherlands, how many families are allowed to use Sven's farm? It's got to be higher. Because if they're the national producers of, or like the main farming out country of sperm, it's got to be higher, surely. Yeah, we're definitely looking at higher. Especially if like their neighbours were a 12. Well, it says around 12 families domestically. I don't like the around. It said varies by sperm bank. Oh good. So what rules? Yeah no. But let's be kind. Let's be kind and pretend that they are following the rules in Denmark. And let's again round it up to two children per family. Uh and we'll say another 24 to add to Sven's bank. Bank. Yes. Sven has banked another 24 kids. Wow's that. Yao. Okay. Now, oh, this is a long haul flight. Okay, I hope you

State of the United States

13:22

booked yourself business class because we're going to the United States of America. It's Helen's favorite place. This can't be good. It won't be good. It's got to be higher. There'll there'll be no rules. There'll be a free-for-all, and all the doctors are in on it and everyone's profiting. What do you think? Higher or lower than Denmark? Just for the sake of the game. I'm gonna go lower. Oh wow, that's like rose tinted glasses, very wrong. I'm so sorry. I wish we lived in that world, but unfortunately we don't because the US have no legal limit. Yes, terrible. No. The US has no federal law limiting donor offspring. That's why there are lots of groups now really pushing for some kind of rules and laws, just to be like, come on, we've got to do something about this, because some donors reportedly have at least a hundred biological children walking around today. Like do you know what's really funny about this is I was looking on Instagram maybe a couple of days ago,

Instagram Sperm Donors

14:40

double checking that there are no other user handles of sperm sisters. And as I was looking, obviously, when I input sperm, it came up with I couldn't I couldn't tell you countless, countless, countless accounts of um sperm donors, and they were all from the US. It was like sperm donor John, sperm donor Tommy 465, sperm donor Sven. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Chase. And there were yeah. Chase is on the case. How many shall we put down on Sven's list? Because obviously there are no rules. We don't actually know the figure. It's gonna be in the hundreds, isn't it? So let's let's just round it to a hundred. Okay, sure. Okay, Sven. Oh don't ever move to the states and have your own children. Just saying. Svenny, spanny. Oh okay. We're gonna go down to the southern hemisphere. We're gonna go to Australia.

Australia!

15:55

I believe we have a couple of listeners in Australia. Could I? Lower, lower. You think lower? Lower cur. I think that the Australia is like quite um ahead of why I'm using that COVID terms, ahead of the curve uh for this sort of thing. Like they're quite pioneering in uh donor-conceived people's rights. So I would say much, much lower than America. Okay. So would you would what were you you're gonna say like 10 again, like to match that of the UK? Maybe even less than us. Interesting. Nat, what's your call? What do you think? I'm gonna go, I'm gonna I think they've matched the UK. I'm gonna go with 10. Cool. Well, they are depending on the state, that's the caveat. They are five to ten families depending on the state that you live in, with Victoria and New South Wales having the strictest rules. Wait, does that mean that then you could have Sven could have done five in Victoria and then do five in another state and then do five in another state? Because that is nicht so gut. That's interesting. Hmm. Okay, we don't have the answer to that, but if anybody listening does, please can you pop us a message and fill us in? And if you're in Australia or with the medical profession and you know that for a fact, is it monitored by the state? Or you're right, Helen, could potentially then have five families in Sydney, but then go over to Perth and then it's ten or whatever. I mean, it's well big though, isn't it?

What's the Rules, Australia?

17:58

In fairness, very big. Okay. Okay, so Australia has faced a major sperm shortage because of the tighter laws. Oh, right. That makes it quite interesting, then. Working out how many mini spams are running around getting a gorgeous tan in Australia. I would just put it down as 10 because we're unsure. Yeah. So five to ten families, depending on the state. And we're gonna kindly, I think that's being quite kind, isn't it? Same. I I'd say twenty. It's probably gonna be higher than that, yeah. It's probably gonna be higher, isn't it? But let's do 10. Neither do I. I think ten. Giving them the benefit of the doubt that there is an Australian, an overall Australian role. Okay, let's say 20. No, let's say 10. 10. We said 10, huh? We said 10. Sorry, stop fiddling those figures. Oh sorry, don't you? No, having nothing on there. Okay. Now this country I'm not going to do the accent for. Please do. Please do. Where is this? Sweden. Sweden. Sweden! You could get your roll-mup herrings. Oh, don't tease. Oh, love. Do you know how much I've missed like

Helen Loves Sweden

19:33

yeah, pickled fish, anything whilst I've been pregnant? Cannot wait to just eat so much raw stuff. Just raw chicken. Whilst it's alive, yeah. Ah go on, sorry. Okay, Sweden, higher or lower than Australia. What do we think? How many families are allowed to use spam spam? Higher. Yeah, I agree, higher. Because I I think that there's like Sweden is like super progressive. Um, and perhaps they're looking at it more from that angle, maybe. I just think Swedish sperm is probably really uh popular. Oh stunning as well. Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah, you're stunned. You're not far off. You've got a very good feel for this game, Helen, because Sweden are the gold standard of donor transparency. They were the first country in the world to say, oi, you've got to give your real details over sperm donors in 1985. So four years before we were born. Yeah, they said no anonymous donations. You gotta say your say your name and prove it as well. So you can't just walk in and give like a fake name. So I thought that was really good. That is very good. Sweet, yeah. The sweet have it. So six families, let's times that by two kids per family. Maths twelve. Twelve points to Schmieden. I love this game. Yeah, it's good.

"I Love This Game!"

21:33

It's really good. Okay, France. We're off to France.

En route pour la France

21:39

So she can't how many do you think we can have? How many families are allowed to use fansperm in France? In France. I reckon it's fairly I'm gonna say higher. Six was quite low. Six is low. So yeah, let's let's go higher. 15. Now this is a bit different. 10 births per donor. How do you monitor that? Well, you don't. Really? You don't. Because if you can't wait nine months to see if someone is gonna have a successful pregnancy from that, they'll still be using that sperm, surely, to the next client. Yeah. So it says anonymous donation is ending gradually. I roll. I don't conceived adults gaining rights to identifying information. So they bloody should. So come on, let's be honest. If you can still be anonymous, but you're only allowed to have 10 births, how the hell are they gonna monitor that? A leg of the. Yeah. Okay. That is very laissez-faire. Let's let's a mid kick. I don't even know if that was a French accent or not. Right. Now we never talk about politics or anything like this, personal opinions, or yeah, we do. But the political side of stuff, I am gonna mention this fact because I think it's really important. And out of everything, this has royally fudged me off. There she is. Come on. That's the girl we know. Fight that's the girl we love. Right.

French Inequality

23:32

France historically banned single women and lesbian couples from fertility from I'll start there again. It's the rage, it's the rage. I can't even speak, I'm pleging up. France historically banned single women and lesbian couples from fertility treatment until laws changed in 2021. Oh why? Why? That infuriates me. Well, yeah, infuriates me. Horrendous. Like, do one, France. Excuse me, since 2021, you're having a joke. That was five years ago. How many amazing women would have raised fabulous children and they were denied? That is really sad. I'm just really pissed off for them, and I hope that they decided to move to a different country and have their own families away from France. I mean France. I mean, let's not do that. No, I just thought that we can't mention France without mentioning this recent law change. Yes, absolutely. That's horrifying. I would say they obviously will have been far more expensive, but there will have been options to perhaps do it in an unregulated sense. So don't don't like flip your table too much because I think people get creative, don't they? Hopefully so. Well, you know, they might have gone to you desven spermerson in uh where's he from? Denmark. Denmark. I was like, I don't know anymore. So we say the total for France, the amount of children, albeit anonymously, 10 births per donor. So let's be kind. And say 10. Well, say say 20 because was oh no, sorry, yeah. Sorry, 10. Apparently there are rules. Yeah, there's not, but let's say 10. Yeah, okay. Okay, 10, 10. Heading on down to Spain. How many children or

Spain Next!

25:46

how many actually, yes, it's the same thing. How many children now are allowed to be conceived via Sven? One sperm donor, Sven. How many mini Sven's are running around Spain? In Spain. I mean in Spain, I would say there's gonna be uh 15. Yeah, more than than France, I think. Yeah, Torito, out of your mouth, it's six children per donor. Well, I take it back. I'm gonna buy it. Well done, Spain. Yeah, I six points. I feel really pleased for Spain there. Yeah, I do. I do. And um Spain Spain is one of Europe's biggest fertility tourism destinations. It's sunny, isn't it? You can make a holiday out of it. Donors are anonymous by law. Ah right. That'll do it. That'll do it. Yes. I feel I felt such joy and now such contentment. Spine.

Fertility Tourism

27:08

For spine. Don't I might work myself again. This is such bad news. Right, let's leave. Let's let's get the fudge out of Europe. Get ready to apologize. We're going to Canada. Hey! Welcome to Canada. Canadians. Is that your Canadian catchphrase? Hey. Hey, pizza. The land of Megan Markle and Justin Bieber and Louis Thereux brother. Yeah. Maple syrup. Right. Canada. How many families higher lower than spine are allowed to use spam spam? It's gonna be higher because six was low. Um, and I think their next door neighbours are absolutely fucked. So

Sorry, Canada

28:22

I think it's got to be rub off on them a little bit. Don't sorry, I'm not sure you should put that back in. People will think I like really do hate America. Helen, I think I think everybody listening also hates America right now. I think it's a sniff bet. Okay, you are not the minority. Well, I think I think it's higher. Yeah, it's gotta be higher. It is higher. But how high? There are no official national limits. Oh, Canada. Just when I thought we could be friends. Yeah. You know? That surprises me. It does me too. Canada banned paying sperm donors. In most cases, they've banned paying them. And because of this, Canada imports a huge amount of donor sperm from the US of A. There you go. There we go. Delish. Many Canadian families therefore use donors who may already have large numbers of offspring internationally. Well, they say internationally, America. Yeah. So the ick. What number are we going to put down? So you don't have there's no official records. It's unregulated, yeah. 20. Oh, I'd go more than that if it's unregulated. I'd she said a hundred for America. America. And it's pretty much exactly the same. Except if they outsource it from America. I'd again go a hundred then. Or do you want to do you wanna no? No, it doesn't agree. Do you want to do 75 to play devil's advocate? I was gonna say 75. You're too kind, but let's do it. No, no, this is a democracy. Let's pop over a quick flight. I don't I don't I don't know how long it takes to get from Canada to China. But how many people or how many families are allowed to use spam sperm? How many little spems are running around in China? None. Yeah, I was gonna say this really confuses me because there's obviously the one child policy. Doesn't exist anymore. No.

And Finally, China!

30:58

When did that stop? Okay, um, like a long time ago. Sorry, that's so the world doesn't pink anymore either, Helen. If you look at it on a map, you mean it's round? It's not flat. Okay. Uh none. Two. I'm still going with none. Well, usually five women per donor. China has very strict medical screening requirements, and donor anonymity is standard. Demand massively outweighs supply, leading to long wait lists in some cities. Interesting. I'm just so surprised by that. Yeah. Well, arguably, there's the point of would they want Danish sperm in China? Maybe they would. I'm not too sure. But anyway, we're gonna put down usually five women per donor. So I think then we can say, say, for example, if they at a push have two kids per the same donor. Yeah. I mean, I'd I yeah, I'd be inclined to just put five, maybe. I think so as well. Yeah, I think so. I think five is accessible for this. Maybe even three, I was gonna say, but what? Let's get a calculator out and do some maths. These are the totals that we have of spens, sperm being used in the countries, how many children? Sometimes we've rounded it up. It's been a guesstimate, for want of a better word. The UK 20. 20 points for the UK, the Netherlands is 24. Denmark, 24. Child America, one hundred not something to be proud of. Australia, ten twelve ten. Sorry. Seventy-five. And China. Five. Do us the massly honour to tell us how many Spence are there living today. Globally, there are two hundred and eighty-six

The Total of Mini Svens Is?

33:35

SPEMs. Potentially more or less. If the countries follow the rules and regulations. Which they don't. I think, yeah, we can say about half of those countries had rules in place. The other half, very lax, have a lot of work to do. And some just need to start. Is looking at you, Canada and America. 286 children. 286 siblings in the world that it's got so much smaller because of the digital age, easier to travel around the world. Out of those 286 siblings, albeit some will be, you know, raised together. What's the likelihood of any of those siblings potentially coming into contact with each other? Pretty high. Or

To Conclude

34:39

what happens if what happens if Sven has a little brother calls Bjorn? He says, Hey, you should start donating sperm. So then he gets Bjorn into it. That's more children. Do you see what I mean? Like it's all figure we were saying. Yeah. So then there's a lot of first cousins if if a potentially a lot of first cousins. Well, let's say that Sven's 286 children go on to then have their own children, these donor conceived kids, on the rules of average, whatever, they have two children each. How many grandchildren does Sven have around the world? Oh my god, I'm panicking with this math. 286 plus 286 is 572. Sven will have 572 grandchildren by the time he probably departs this earth. 572 grandchildren around the world. Then he'd have 1,144 great-grandchildren. Oh. Then he'd have wicked 288 great great grandchildren. Then he'd about to. But the world will implode before then, anyway. So yeah. Well, it's gonna. So let's leave it on the notes that please world have some kind of international laws coming up soon because this has got to be sorted out at some point. Bumble trees, get together and have a chat. Just sort it out. We're gonna go out spoken.