Ep 12 Before You Knew

In this deeply personal episode of Sperm Sisters, we share the exact moment we discovered we weren't biologically related to our dads.

The split-second before and how our entire identities changed after. 

As three donor-conceived sisters born during the largely unregulated era of 1980s sperm donation, we revisit the conversations that changed our lives forever and the emotional aftermath of learning that our identities, family histories, and sense of self were not what we thought they were.

Guided by Nat, this episode explores what it feels like to have the rug pulled out from under your feet, how people process life-altering news, and the complex reality of rebuilding your identity after donor conception discovery.

If you've ever wanted to be a fly on the wall in a therapy session, then this episode is for you.

Trigger Warning: This episode contains discussions of death, grief, family trauma, and loss of identity. If today isn't the day for that, may we gently redirect you to one of our sillier episodes (perhaps Viking Sperm?) and we'll see you next time.

Support for Donor-Conceived People

If you were conceived before 1991 in the UK, you may be entitled to two free counselling sessions through the Donor Conceived Register (DCR) service, with additional sessions available at a subsidised rate.

You can register with the DCR without submitting DNA.

For more information, contact the Liverpool Women's NHS Foundation Trust:

donorconceivedregister@lwh.nhs.uk

🎙️ Sperm Sisters Podcast – Before You Knew
🎧 Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts & all podcast platforms
📺 Watch on YouTube

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Email us at: spermsisterspod@gmail.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Stupid sisters.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

This is a story about sisters.

Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Just not the kind that you're expecting. Three years ago, we were strangers, living separate lives. Now we know we're biological sisters, connected by the same sperm donor. And that's just the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

This podcast dives headfirst into the how, the why, and the uncomfortable questions no one seems to want to answer.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Uncovering secrets the medical world would rather keep buried.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

How many donor-conceived people are there really? No one can give a straight answer. Not the clinics, not the system, no one. So, how many siblings could be walking past us every day without a clue?

SPEAKER_01 0:54

It's messy, it's shocking. At times it's almost impossible to believe. And somehow, it's also really funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Come with us as we dig deeper, ask the uncomfortable questions and laugh our way through the chaos of discovering who we really are. And just how many of us there might be.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Coming up on this week's episode of Sperm Sisters. We share what it feels like in those life-changing moments of honesty and told your parents are your parents, and that's how you grow.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

It would be mental for me to have had that conversation and then gone, he's asking me that because he's not my dad. And Nat shares the heartfelt truth about the beauty of our newly discovered sisterhood.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

But the love that like I feel from you both like feels, oh my god, I don't know why I'm getting off. It does feel like a really it feels like a very different love.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Trigger warning, this episode covers some tricky subjects:

Trigger Warning

SPEAKER_01 1:49

death, grief, and loss of identity. If you're not in the right place today, catch up on one of our previous silly billy episodes. Okay, are we ready? Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Hello, you

Welcome World

SPEAKER_02 2:03

lovely listeners, and welcome back to another episode of Spam Sisters. We're gonna do our usual run-through of who is who and how old we are and where we sit in the lineup of sisterhood. I'll go first. My name's Natasha. I'm the eldest sister. I'm 36 years old, and I'm gonna introduce you to Gemma.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Hello, my name is Gemma, and I am also 36 years old, but I'm not Nat's twin. I only met her four years ago at her workplace in Covent Garden. Oh, darling. The lies we need.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

I am Helen. I'm 35 and I'm the youngest of the three sisters thus far. Yes. That's far.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Keep that for another episode. Welcome uh back to a new episode. Now, this episode I'm gonna be hosting. And I'm gonna title it uh Before You Knew, but we're gonna do a sort of a bit of reflection really on uh perhaps who we were before we met and how we feel we may have changed since meeting. Feel up for that? Oh, that's quite juicy, I think.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Yes. I can hopefully concept.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

There are moments in life where everything splits into two time frames. We have before you knew and we have after. And I think that for all three of us, discovering that we were donor conceive changed something quite fundamental about, I guess, the way that we saw ourselves. I think what's strange about discovering something this big in adulthood is that you remember the moment so vividly, not just what was said, but the feeling. Almost like your brain sort of realizes instantly that life is never going to feel quite the same again. And

Before You Knew

SPEAKER_02 4:05

interestingly, psychologists actually talk about something which is called

Narritive Identity

SPEAKER_02 4:10

narrative identity. Have either of you heard of that before? No, no, so it's essentially the idea that humans build their sense of self through the stories that they believe about their lives. Right. Wow. So essentially, you know, when a major piece of that story suddenly changes in adulthood, it can genuinely alter how you understand yourself, which I think is safe to say it did for the three of us, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yeah, 100%. When we found out that each of us were donor-conceived, yeah, that's that was the shift that we all found out were donor-conceived.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you're just joining us now, we're all donor conceived.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Sorry. I love this. That made me laugh.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

So today's episode, that's really what it's about. It's not necessarily about sperm donation itself, but it's the moment that your identity shifts underneath

When Your Identity Changes

SPEAKER_02 5:15

you and what happens afterwards as a result.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Sounds good? Yes. Fascinating. Fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

So I think that one thing I've realized over time is that discovering something like the fact that your donor conceived doesn't erase your life before, but it very much changes the lens in which you viewed it prior to finding out. And I wondered whether you both felt the same as me in relation to that. Like, did anything internally feel different immediately after finding out, or did that happen slowly over time for you?

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Because I know that we've spoken about in previous episodes the way that you know we each individually found out. We've briefly touched upon that. We'll share more with the listeners in sort of future episodes. But we've, I don't think we've ever really spoken about, you know, how whether or not we suddenly felt an immediate change in ourselves or whether that has slowly sort of unfolded over time, since even since perhaps meeting each other.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Okay. I don't, Helen, did you did you want to say something real quick? I've got stuff to say, but you go. So do I, Helen. Yes, so do I. Oh my god, because this is brilliant. And I think regardless of whether you found out that you're donor conceived or not, there's something that happened to you that means that your narrative of yourself completely shifts. When I when I found out at the age of 28

Gemma's Story

SPEAKER_01 6:52

that I was donor-conceived, I remember for a little bit sort of trying to squash the feeling that I felt different. It was really odd. I tried to pretend that maybe I inside, but I'd never told anybody this. I thought maybe I was being a bit dramatic that I had that I started to view myself differently, or I started to feel different in this body. Like I actually physically felt different. And I kind of felt like I didn't know who this person was. And I began to question every single tiny thing that I did. Like, was I this type of driver because that's genetic? Or do I like this because that's genetic? And it was just everything about me completely changed. And even down to like music tastes, choice of TV shows was like a magnifying lens. And I felt like I couldn't thoroughly enjoy anything

What's the Point of Me?

SPEAKER_01 7:55

that I used to really enjoy because I would analyze it. And uh it got to the point where I then came to terms with it. I think like I slowly started to come to terms with it, but I know that for a while, probably for about a year, I actually started to have a bit of like an existential crisis where I got to the point where I was like, what's the fucking point in me? What's the point of me being here? There's literally no point of me being here. Not in like a I'm gonna end it kind of way, but in a, well, I'm not from you know, you felt cheat, you felt a bit cheated. Yeah, it was well,

Feeling Cheated

SPEAKER_01 8:42

it was like uh I like this is how much I spiraled. This is how far it went, like, woo, come back down, kind of thing. But I thought, well, people who are born to a to a like a mum and a dad who met on a one-night stand, they were born or they were created because those two people were meant to come together and have kids. Like something drew them together, like they both chose to go to that club or whatever. And then obviously, there's the whole no parents were together for however many years and then decided to have kids because they love each other very much. But then, but then what's the point in me? Because no one knows where I come from.

No One Knows Where We Come From

SPEAKER_01 9:28

What am I what's my reason for being on this earth? Like it got heavy. And I was at the time, I was a teacher, and I used to have to stand up in front of the class and be totally fine, but then I would drive home and I couldn't remember the drive home because all I was thinking was I'm pointless, I'm completely pointless. And I was trying to think, like, well, maybe I'm here because I'm helping people when I'm teaching, like that's why I was created. And then I started to come out of that bizarre funk, that really weird place. And I and I then realized, well, I'm no different to anybody else. I'm on this earth because mum and dad were meant to have children, but it had, but it was meant to be this way. I'm not, I'm not religious at all. And maybe that's the point that people would turn to faith. I unfortunately believe in crystals. So anyway, like, yeah, but then it wasn't until I met my sisters that that is when I was like, I get me. I understand

My Sisters Helped

SPEAKER_01 10:39

me now.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

I do totally get what you were saying. Because obviously, I experienced knowing you during you finding that out, and I know how deeply it did affect you. And I think for a lot of people it's um, if you found out later, it's like a cyclical sort of uh dawning realization of different moments, you can start overthinking about one thing, yeah, slightly have a bit of a breakthrough on that, and then something else you'll suddenly spiral about. Yeah. So I think your original question was um, how did you feel immediately after the fact of finding out? And uh my experience, slightly different to Gemma's, I would say, is that I didn't, well, I mean, obviously everybody freaks out right when you find out, but I had a really weird, sort of overwhelming sense of calm um wash over me. And I feel like I think it's fine for me to talk about this, but I look back at certain points in my life now, and I definitely did when I immediately found out, and suddenly lots of things made complete and utter sense to me, which maybe I'd been privately sort of torturing

Helen's Story

SPEAKER_00 11:54

myself over of thinking, what did that mean, or what was that about? So if I was sort of broaching it a bit more, I don't think dad would mind me talking about this because he obviously didn't know at the time for definite that we were um donor conceived, because at the time they would tell the parents, well, you could be the dad, because they lied and said they would mix the sperm together. So that's the story he was told. But I do have quite a vivid memory of um just me and dad uh in our lounge, and randomly out of nowhere, he sort of looked at me and he went, Oh, it's so funny you wear glasses, but me and your mum have perfect vision,

It Wasn't Quite Right

SPEAKER_00 12:43

and and it's just so funny you had um you had to have braces, and again, neither neither of us had to have that, and you had to have your ears pinned back. And I remember at the time sitting there thinking, This is a really odd conversation, and like I'm really thought sort of thrown off guard, and I just went, Yeah, well, it's like okay, didn't know what to think because that's not like a normal thing to say, and it's certainly not a normal conversation that me and him would have normally had. So I don't know, maybe at that point if he was going through some sort of uh it would be fascinating to ask him about I should ask him about that. Go on. How's how old were you? I mean it was the conversation with that. Yeah, how old? Um, if I'm guessing definitely into adulthood, if I'm guessing, I I would say probably like 25, 26, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Yeah, because when I spoke to dad the other day about this, he said that he first realized that we were donor-conceived when I and I don't know if I've mentioned this yet or not. I don't think so. When I donated blood, uh and

Moment of Clarity

SPEAKER_01 14:02

I got my results through because the first time you go and donate blood, they tell you what blood group you are.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

And I'm O-positive, and both mum and dad are our blood groups that physically cannot produce O-positive children. And I remember asking them just out of curiosity what their blood groups are, and that was when apparently for both of them, they both said this, they were like, Oh my god, this is the first time that we can officially confirm she is donor conceived. And I was stood in the kitchen and they just said something like, Oh, we're do-and I was like, Okay, I walked off. Yeah. Because at the time I still didn't question it, like I didn't think, oh, those two, those blood groups don't make sense because I don't know stuff like that because that doesn't really interest me. At the time it didn't, now it fascinates me.

Blood Test

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Um, anyway, so I'm wondering if that conversation happened round about the same time that he said that to you, House. Quite possibly.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

There's things like that, which sort of like quietly or subtly play on your mind, yeah, and you sort of brush off because you've been told your parents are your parents, and that's how you've grown up. So it would be mental for me to have had that conversation and then gone, he's asked me that because he's not my dad. Like obviously, obviously, if you are looking at it now from this angle, you'd think, well, that's a bit of a giveaway. How didn't you connect that? But it's just you know it's so hard to describe to people, but I would say there was also elements of um more things made sense to me in terms of like maybe we've always had slightly different views on things, me and my dad. And I know that's quite a common, I

Different Views to Dad

SPEAKER_00 16:04

feel like that's quite a common thing um for people to experience with their dads.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

But I think what you're saying is that like over time, since finding out, these things start to almost like drip feed into your everyday, and you start to reflect or you know, suddenly think, Well, you might have never thought about the fact that your dad had said that. You sat you down and said those things in the same way that you did after finding out, you know, you really you travel back to these conversations that you would have completely forgotten about and replay them over and over and over again until they, you know, start to make you feel like you or like make you understand yourself more. Because I think I think for me, like grief really complicated everything when I found out that I was

Nat's Storyc

SPEAKER_02 16:53

donor conceived because I found out the day before my mum's funeral. Um so there wasn't really like space to process one life-changing thing before another suddenly arrived, if you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Yeah, I have no idea how you juggled those two wildly traumatic identity narrative shifts. Like, how was there space in your body and in your head to manage those two?

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Well, there wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

No.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Like, you know, there wasn't, but that's why I parked the whole donor-conceived I I parked it, didn't I, for like years, for like the entire pretty much the entirety of my 20s. Because yeah, I mean, I when did we meet? Four years ago, so 32. Yeah. I parked it for not I parked it for a decade. I knew for 10 years before I did anything with that piece of information, which um, to be honest, still feels like I found out last week, which is really, you know, which is bizarre. But when I think about it, that's the first time I have really properly thought about it. That, you know, I waited 10 years before I did anything with that piece of information. And that's because I was grieving mum

Grieving Mum

SPEAKER_02 18:15

so so heavily, still, still am, but um in a different way now, I guess. But I think about quite a lot is whether there's a version of ourselves that existed before we each knew and found out, and I know that sounds really strange because obviously we're still the same people, but I do think that information changes us, yeah. Um, or at least changes how we understand ourselves. Did either of you feel like the same person afterwards, or do do you feel like something has subtly uh shifted, or perhaps not so subtly shifted? Because I believe that since meeting you both, like I um like without crying, like I I feel like I have entered like an entirely new not chapter, chapter isn't the right word because I I think it's really hard to find the words to even describe what I'm trying to say here, but I really feel like I have I have changed. Like I I have like I feel it in myself, I feel it in myself, and I what's something that's like quite beautiful about for me this relationship with you both is that I feel like I have reconnected with

Reconnected With The Old Version

SPEAKER_02 19:42

the person that I was before I lost my mum. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Well that's really lovely. Do you do you think what do you think it is that has made you reconnect to that part of yourself?

SPEAKER_02 20:05

Maybe I honestly don't know, but maybe it's like feeling like I found something that I felt was missing for a very long time. Right. Yeah. Or like, you know, found like another level of love that I went a really long time without having. If that makes sense. Even though like I'm because obviously, like I'm held by and loved by so many amazing people, but the love that like I feel from you both, like, feels oh my gosh, I don't know why I'm getting upset. It does feel like a really like it feels like a very different

A Different Love

SPEAKER_02 20:49

love.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

I I mean I can't fully relate to what you're saying because of you having lost your mum, but I can relate to what you're saying about having found each other. It is such a deep, unconditional love, and I think Yeah, I think you just to put the words out of my mouth, like that is what it feels like.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

It feels like deep and unconditional.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

It's kind of like asking, how would you describe the love for your children? How would you describe the love for your partner? It's like a different kind of love for each relationship, but it ultimately feels like home, comfort, and a warmth, and just a safety, and it's and it's not I think that's not learnt or anything. I think that is just being somehow magnetically drawn to people. And I feel like I mean, we said when we first met we were drawn to each other like magnets. Because it was as though we were like a jigsaw puzzle where we were like we just fit and it

Magnetic Sisterhood

SPEAKER_01 22:06

feels right that we're just together because that's how I feel anyway. That's why I'm utterly obsessed with you guys.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Why are you so obsessed with me? That's very that's very nice.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Thank you, Helen. That's very nice. That's very nice.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Also, going back to what you said of do you think there was because obviously you feel like you've reconnected with a much younger version of yourself. Mine is by the way, nowhere near as deep and uh and lovely as yours. But I would say that I have always like growing up, I would have always appeared quite confident, I think, of not really been like shy or retiring. But now, for some reason, finding that information now internally, I've been like so sure of myself immediately. As soon as I found out I've like never been more sure of who I am with decisions I make, because I've just sort of thought that is inherently me, and I'm making everything with my own

My Own Mind

SPEAKER_00 23:32

mind. And it's just like I mean, yuck, if I wasn't confident before, I'm now like I'm so confident, but it has, it really has like just you know confirmed a sort of I'd say it's given me a bit more fire to myself in a nice way. Self-assurance that's it. I've been so assured. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

I think as well, like what's difficult is that nothing in your childhood physically changes after finding something like this out, but your understanding of your childhood does. In this, you know, going back to what you were each just saying right at the start, you know, these conversations that perhaps happened when you're a teenager or in your early 20s, etc., it sort of like all adds up, but then suddenly, you know, all of your memories they shift and they like surface in a totally new way.

SPEAKER_03 24:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Not forced, but just like reinterpreted, I guess. You start to reinterpret these conversations that you perhaps had with your dad back then, and you start to make sense of them more. And researchers describe memory as reconstructive, meaning we don't replay memories like recordings, we interpret them through new understanding and emotion. So discovering something identity-changing in adulthood can make old memories suddenly feel quite emotionally different, even though the memories themselves haven't changed. Now, this is interesting because there is also research showing that siblings raised in the same family often experience

Same House Siblings

SPEAKER_02 25:18

childhood completely different from one another. Yeah. So researchers call this, do you know what that's called? Buckwittery. Well, the scientific phrase for it is non-shared environment when we're talking about this sort of um situation. And it's the idea that even within the same household, people are shaped by, of course, individual experiences, their own friendships, their own individual relationships with their mother and father, um, their own interpretations of the way things are said to them by mother or father, as well as your own emotional moments and how you each deal with handling those, which I think is uh, you know, specifically interesting for the three of us, because you guys grew up together. Um, yet somehow there sort of still feels over loads of overlaps between us, which is strange, you know, like when in other episodes where we've been having conversations, and me and you, Gemma, will be like, Helen, why don't you feel that way? And then you and I, Helen, will be like, Gemma,

Different Childhood

SPEAKER_02 26:25

like, where are you in this? Or then you two will will be the same against me. So, you know, even though you two grew up together, but I very much wasn't a part of that household, I just think that it's so interesting that um even just the three of us, you two living growing up together, still have like quite different experiences of growing up, even though you were together.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

Yes. Actually, what I do think sometimes when I'm editing episodes is how I don't view you two any differently, like whether I grew up in the same household with you or not, because I'm learning about Helen just as much as I'm learning about Una. I don't think we've ever like you don't know me. You don't even know me? It's just fascinating hearing your take on stuff, Hells, because just because we grew up in the same household does and in the same environment, we've got the same story, the same backstory, we've got completely different takes on it. Some sometimes like you'll feel something stronger than I will, and vice versa. And I just think that's really interesting how it's unique, despite being considered full siblings, but it's based on perhaps things that did happen to us when we were younger, how we were treated differently, because we I think we were very differently.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

There's research around late life family revelations that actually show that people often describe the experience less like receiving information but more like internal disorientation, yeah, which uh I think describes it perfectly, to be quite honest. Because it's almost like your brain is trying to catch up with a new version of reality, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Um it's so disorientating.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

Yeah, but but having said that, do you think there is a good way to discover something that is identity changing?

SPEAKER_00 28:40

I think it yeah, yeah, and I think the research shows if you don't discover it and it's always just been told to you,

Late Discovery

SPEAKER_00 28:50

it's just not an it, it's it becomes a non-issue. Um, because that's your normal. You're not having to change anything. Whereas as you've said, a later discovery, you're having to completely rewrite it mentally in your own head your narrative again.

SPEAKER_02 29:09

Do you think any version of it changes you regardless? Because often, you know, we have lots of stories of adopted children who, you know, grow up knowing that they're adopted from being a youngster and still travel through life and want to find out who that you know who they really are.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

I think that potentially if you have that revelation or that's brought to your attention that everything that you knew, the stories that made you who you are, that informed the person that you thought that you were, your identity, if that happens as an adult, I think it's like fast-forwarding all of those emotions that perhaps adopted people or don't conceive people knew from the beginning. But as an adult, it's like you go through all of those feelings in a really short space of

Similar to Adoption?

SPEAKER_01 30:12

time, like you're playing catch-up really, really, really quickly. So maybe that's why you're feeling disorientated. I felt like I had to go through the mental filing cabinet of who I was as a person and reorganise the messy scatteredness to make it tidy, informed, make it make sense today.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Helen, do you have anything to add? Are you okay over this?

SPEAKER_00 30:40

I think I'm I think I'm okay with that. I feel the exact same as Gemma on that one of like just having to read it. I think the mental filing cabinet is like the perfect way to describe that. Yeah, but again, mine wasn't like I think there's different ways that you might personally approach the mental filing cabinet. You might approach it with like feelings. Again, it's all a processing thing, right? So if you find out later in life, you might be approaching your mental filing cabinet with anger, or perhaps a feeling of distrust or betrayal, or like which I think a lot of people do feel like that initially, and I definitely had elements of that too, but mine was also coupled with a feeling of um weird sort of calm serenity because I was like, that suddenly makes way more sense, and my filing cabinet felt actually a lot more organized.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Whereas I had to put all of mine in order. Yeah. I felt like the bones of it were there, but it didn't flow.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

What we're basically all saying is that there's no sort of singular moment of like real, like you know what I mean, like of not just realization, but of like mentally sorting out that cabinet. Like you're not gonna get it done in one day or a month or a year. Right. Whatever, really.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think probably actually never, but it's a real process.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

Absolutely. And there are like lots of small moments, lots of little realizations, small shifts as you travel through day to day, all of those unexpected moments that happen, whether you're with a new donor sibling or not. And maybe that's why these stories that we're telling feel as emotional as they do sometimes, because they're not really about sperm donation, they're just about identity um or belonging, or in my case, grief, or actually, in your case, grief, you know, grieving what you thought was, but ultimately it's just about family and trying to understand yourself after discovering something that reshapes your story. So maybe the hardest part isn't discovering the truth, but maybe it's learning how to carry it afterwards. Love you guys, and thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Listeners. And if you are currently, sorry, sorry to add this in. I just feel like it's really, really, really important. If you are currently going through anything similar to what we have gone through, just want to remind people like if you have just found out that you're donor conceived and you're navigating it, you are always very, very welcome to message us because we've gone through it. Our email is spermsisterspod at gmail.com. And also, there's the uh donor conceived group who offered two free counselling sessions. If you're going through the links, yes. If you're going through any hot and heavy feelings, please talk to somebody. Just bloody talk to somebody, but take care of yourselves. I love that. Williams.