SWIMMINGPOOL INTERNATIONAL
The podcast from pool experts for everyone
SWIMMINGPOOL INTERNATIONAL
#7: Exploring Stainless Steel in a pool
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SPEAKER_02A warm welcome to our international swimming pool podcast. This time a little bit different, as we are both in different cities in Europe. Where are you, Angela?
SPEAKER_01I'm actually today in Barcelona. And I have to say we have springtime. It's warm, it's sunny, it's nice. We do we don't have water, but the rest is really good. And how about you, Michael?
SPEAKER_02Well, tell me a little bit more about uh the dry uh thing in Barcelona. I've heard so much about it, and uh I even uh understood that uh you are being uh uh you are on a ration for uh for water, only allowed so much water a day. Is this true?
SPEAKER_01Yes, in fact, it is true, and it's also the first time in my life I I experienced this kind of uh thing. And you know, like when you're little, some people were talking about there might be you know no no fresh water, and you think, oh my god, no, I cannot believe this, this is so far away. But it is true, and yes, uh, we can only use, we have a restriction of water 200 liters per day and person. And first I didn't even know what it means, no, so I really started now a little bit to count and uh collect water everywhere, you know, when you are washing dishes, the water which is maybe running at the beginning, I collect. So now I have actually a little bit of a feeling what does it mean 200 liters per person a day? It's not as bad as you think, but if you have, like me, a lot of flowers in the garden, and it's not hot summer time yet, uh then again it's maybe less than you think. So, yeah, it's uh it's a very frightening situation to be honest, and you can see how nature is suffering, and uh I I'm really cautious about it. And a lot of people, of course, we talk about it. It's it's a it's an ongoing topic, and it's yeah, it's it the world has changed in this kind of sense, really.
SPEAKER_02Yes, and as you uh you just asked me where am I? Well, I'm in the Netherlands in in Amsterdam, and we have the opposite problem. We actually have too much water.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, how is that?
SPEAKER_02Uh we have had dry we have had dry summers as well, but then in uh October, November last year it stopped, it started raining and it almost never stopped. So now the whole bottom, uh the the ground, everything is full of water, and uh we are now prepared for the dry summer. So you see, only a thousand or fifteen hundred kilometers away, and it's a completely different situation. It's a really a crazy world, I would say, with the climate change.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it is. Yeah, send us water.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, please. It is always good to uh talk to you again and uh this time uh at a distance. And uh we have an a very interesting topic today, I think. And uh what is this topic?
SPEAKER_01Yes, today we thought about um talking about stainless steel. This is something we are both working with. It's uh we have to say, but um, we don't want only to talk about us, we want to talk about it a little bit also in general. It is a very beautiful product which we are both very connected to. So we thought uh why not tell you a little bit more? And uh, of course, our topic is swimming pools. So, yeah, how can we work with stainless steel and what kind of um parts are possible with a pool?
SPEAKER_02Right, yeah, that is indeed very, very uh interesting topic. Some people say it's it's very complicated. Uh, but I think uh we will make it easier for uh the interested uh listeners, and uh how they can you know have a very nice pool which uh doesn't show any corrosion or any other wear uh of the product. And the first thing I would like to talk about in this sense is that there are so many different materials available in the market, so many different grades of stainless steel. But we both actually only use two uh based on our experience in the swimming pool market. Uh could you tell us a little bit more about uh let's say the first material, the most standard material that uh you use for swimming pool uh products? And what is it called?
SPEAKER_01Yes, it's called uh what we are uh commonly using areas and as you said there is a lot of confusion um and also um it's very good to understand that there are different kinds of stainless steel. So we are using the 316 L, and that means is a stainless steel um has this stainless steel has a low carbon content, so it's making it highly vulnerable and corrosion resistant. And I know that you are working with the um 316 Ti, and we are both are working also with the 904 L. And yeah, and we, for example, we also buy our stainless steel here in Germany, so we really know actually where it comes from, and we know that it is a very, very good quality we are working with, and that's very important. And I learned something already when we talked about something before that you told me something. What is also very interesting to know about uh different kinds of stainless steel in the pool.
SPEAKER_02Yes. So um uh there is a difference between 316L or 316 Ti, which are we we it's not necessary to go in depth between uh uh about the differences because it's mainly used in the same uh surroundings, the same application, and it's both suitable uh for standard uh swimming pool uh water. And uh I would say 316 L, 316 Ti is what's commonly used for the private pools, I would say worldwide. If you have this uh high standard you will achieve uh um uh uh corrosion resistance and other uh topics that we will cover later on uh in the in the in the podcast. Uh there is also this very high-end uh material called 904 L and this is really for special um some special pools like uh sea for seawater filled like in Greece and uh in thermal beds where you have a salt a salt bath where you can almost float. Uh you need these higher grades uh to be able to resist the salt. And um yeah, what can you tell about uh salt chlorinators and stainless steel?
SPEAKER_01Yes, uh, because this is also a question we are often asked with customers. And yeah, most of the salt chlorinators, uh which some are marked as low salt uh chlorinators or low salinity chlorinators, are definitely um usable for this kind of stainless steel. So if you have this uh chlorinators, you have no problem at all because it controls it, let's say, automatically.
SPEAKER_02And what is the uh what is the then uh people always talk about uh the salt contents and so on, and uh what is the maximum uh salt on the on the 316L or 316 Ti?
SPEAKER_01Uh we are saying uh maximum chloride content of 500 milligrams per liter is not a problem at all for the 316L stainless steel. So this is something you can easily you know use in this kind of yeah, for this kind of stainless steel.
SPEAKER_02Ah, okay, okay. You you would uh use different uh words, but for the listeners uh uh who don't know so much about chlorine at the content and so on, we could say maximum 0.5% salt uh diluted in the water. Okay, quite interesting. And uh the higher degree, uh which as I said, we use uh um a lot in Greece, where apparently certain customers prefer to have water from the sea in their pools. And uh there we use this 904L because it is suitable for up to 3% salt. And uh I think with this dry this dry this drought that you have in Barcelona and so on, seawater pools may be the future. Because if there's one thing that we have enough, then it's seawater.
SPEAKER_01Yes, this is something, of course, what is kind of recommended here because uh it will be uh for private pools, it will be very hard to to reach that 200 litre per day. No, if you have a pool, then you really um exceed this very easily. The problem is with sea, if really if you take the Mediterranean seawater in your pool, you know, you really have to be careful. It's not about the stainless steel, actually, it's about all the parts you have in the pool. No, so this needs to be um yeah, very well considered if this is the a good way or if you rather prefer a mix, um, you know, if this is uh a good solution like this. But yeah, a pool is a pool and uh it's still something you want to have, no?
SPEAKER_02So yeah, and you you also told me that uh or I heard that besides the salt uh content there's also some kind of an index. Can you tell us a little bit uh on this? Uh uh what what does this mean and how is it called?
SPEAKER_01Yes, we are working. I mean, we can we tell our customers uh you can uh work with the Langelier saturation index, it's called. And there um you can measure actually the corrosiveness of the water, and here it's very interesting to find it's not only about the um TDS, the total dissolved solids in the water, because there you have, like, for example, if you take 1200 TDS or you double, it's still in the range. The interesting thing is that you need to also see other water parameters and take them into consideration, and this is also like the water temperature. Of course, you will not influence this water temperature so much, it is what it is, no, or you have a heat pump, but then you have to control kind of control this as well, and it's about the hardness of the water and the pH in the water. So, all of these taken together, you need to put into alignments, and there is like in the index says if you are if you're at zero, it's the perfect situation with this index, but it's still okay if you have minus uh 0.3, you go more to corrosion. If you put this into this index, you will see it, and if you exceed plus 0.3, then you go into the scale of formation, which you also don't want to have. So, but if you are in this limit between uh the minus 0.3 and the plus 0.3, you're very, very fine. And I always think it's not only good for stainless steel, it's also good for your health to control your water, no? And I I I never understand how uh you can put like chlorine like crazy, or you go your pH you don't control, and how you want to swim in this water, you know. So I always think it's an interesting thing. Yeah, but the Langelier index, you can look it up and uh try it out, and then you can find your perfect water quality.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I I I surely will. And so you have uh, you know, some things that you have to consider when you uh want to have stainless steel in your pool. One is the salt content, the then you have your Langelier uh index. And an uh another thing that is also very important is that you may should make sure when using 316L or 316 Ti that all the material, all the stainless steel in the pool is of equal grade. Because as soon as one is lower than the lower or higher than the other, the lower one will start to work as a sinker node, and it will create little particles uh in the water which will fall down on the higher grade, and that's how you get uh rust. We hear so many times in the market, oh uh I have this beautiful nozzle and it's rusting, and you told me this is not possible. And then we start to ask questions, what else do you have in the pool? And then and what material is it? And then you easily come to the conclusion a certain part has lower quality, this uh creates the rust. Even if your Langelier index or your salt content is okay, if there is a lower quality uh material in the pool, this could very likely create pol uh problems.
SPEAKER_01I find that very interesting to be honest. Um, you know, this is something sometimes we don't talk about it, or customers also don't ask, no. But I think it's a very interesting fact that it should be all the same material.
SPEAKER_02It it's a very nice material, but you just have to make sure that all the parameters are fine, uh, according to the uh specification made done by the the manufacturer, and as long as you do that, you will have no problems your whole life with stainless steel.
SPEAKER_01And that very nice, and that leads me to the question uh why should we choose stainless steel? What are the advantages? Maybe Michael, you can say something about that.
SPEAKER_02Uh well, like I just ended uh in the previous uh sentence, uh if you maintain it properly and you have your parameters all in order, it's extremely durable, and it will last a lifetime and uh probably also of the next generations in the family. And so that's one of the topics, but there are more.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I would like to say um it's it is really a beautiful upgrade in your pool, and I never understand when you have you have we both we have seen so beautiful pools in our industry, and then you look at it and you think, oh what a beautiful pool, and then you see a plastic skimmer. I mean, for me it's like it ruins the whole thing, to be honest. It's not only because I work uh with stainless steel, but really it is a very beautiful, as you said, stable, long-lasting product, and it doesn't bleach out like plastic skimmers, you know. They they bleach out if you think you need to take it into pink, and it they break eventually. Like, you know, I live here in Spain and I know how plastic breaks when you have a two, you know, you have it the first year, it looks okay, the second year, you know. Like I'm not only talking about the stuff in the pool, but eventually they break, and stainless steel just doesn't. And uh yeah, it's also a very flexible product, you know. Like we have customers, they say, Okay, can you uh customize something? It's not a problem with stainless steel. We make it. We even we even have a jet, it's called Angie, and we only made it for a customer who wanted to have like for their jacuzzi a special product made from stainless steel.
SPEAKER_02Ah, yes, yes. Now I I have to agree with the flexibility, it is uh relatively easy to fulfill customers' wish wishes to the the dream pool. And uh talking about dream pools uh and creating a dream pool, can you tell us a little bit more of about the stainless uh po uh uh stainless steel products that you uh recommend to uh uh customers from your product lines?
SPEAKER_01Yes, uh we are actually manufacturing uh since since yeah, since about uh 50 years, parts, uh inbuilt parts in the pool, and yeah, we are manufacturing skimmers, just a small overview skimmers, nozzles, bottom drains, broom connections, uh covers for the lights, so all the parts you actually see in the pool, and also inside. Also, we have wall transitions, uh cable box, everything made of stainless steel. And yeah, and uh coming a little bit more deep into this. Um for example, our skimmers, you know, we we have there was a many years, and they were like uh square, uh always a square skimmer, and nowadays uh we have of course we have a very, very wide range of skimmers, and uh for example, nowadays we have the slim skimmers, so they really look stylish, they like look modern, and we have always three sizes, for example. So we call it like B400, B500, B600. And the interesting thing with the skimmers is that uh we also have skimmers where you can take the water level very high in your pool, so it looks like uh infinity spool pool, even it's a skimmer, it's a skimmer pool made of stainless steel, of course. And then we have another skimmer uh where you can take the basket out from the pool side, not uh, as you know, many many years you know, you take the basket out from the from the outside, and you need a hole in the stone, but we have a skimmer where you take the basket from the inside out, and so you don't need to make any hole in your beautiful surrounding of your pool. This is okay, yeah, and then uh for the nozzles and the drains, we have them in square, we have them in around many varieties, and one more thing I really want to like to say because we always adapt to the type of the pool. That means if we have like a stainless steel pool or a concrete pool or liner pool, we will have the right product for this kind of pool. It makes it has it means it has a different ending, like a flunch or without flunch. Yes. So you see, I'm really getting into my motion, but I would rather want to know, Michael, what you are actually manufacturing.
SPEAKER_02Well, because the other day uh there are similarities and there are differences uh between uh uh our and uh ours, um let's say ours and your products. Um when it comes to all the different pool types, we uh do the do the same. When you have a stainless steel pool or concrete or uh or a fiberglass pool, uh we have different built in parts to make it uh possible. And but that so this is the similar similarity, but uh the products itself. Are different but complementary. So you have inlet nozzles and you have main drains, and we have uh in the same design or same style, round or square, we make uh hydromassage for uh the perfect wellness in your pool. Uh we do uh water curtains uh for shoulder massage, another wellness uh item, and in all the different kinds of shapes and lengths, and uh and this is also where I meant it's very flexible for customer build. Some customers want to have uh uh a w a water curtain or a water cannon a little bit taller, other ones want it a little bit smaller, a different shape of the mouth. It's all uh possible because it's handmade. And uh of course, last but not least, we do uh uh our counter currents, our jet streams are with stainless steel face plates, either polished or brushed brushed and uh in different shapes again. So you know, combining the uh the water treatment uh from Benke with the uh wellness from uh Flufo, you are on your way to uh your dream pool.
SPEAKER_01I actually can feel it, and I uh while you were talking about uh the water uh water uh curtain and so on. I think everywhere or most people of us know uh as we like pools, we have been standing above a shower in the pool, no, and it's mostly stain stainless steel, no, and you have your neck massaged and uh yeah, it's uh of course yes, and yeah, and it it really really upgrades your pool.
SPEAKER_02The whole total package of stainless steel is something completely different than uh other materials. And uh, well, our listeners probably would also like to know uh if he has some if they have something like this in the pool, how should it be maintained? How can you make sure that it lasts forever?
SPEAKER_01Yes, for us, I mean I think there's a difference between your products and the ones we are working with because our products mostly are underwater. So of course you can when while you have uh you I mean you should always maintain your pool. It's like a car, right? You you g go your with your car to a regular checkup, and this is also what you have to do with a pool. It's a very big part to have that pool such a long time, as we have said. So if you are in the in the course of cleaning your pool and you don't have so much water in the pool, it's a good thing, for example, with a nozzle. Sometimes if you can unscrew the nozzle, just to take a mild soap and a very soft cloth and just clean it a little bit. Like you would clean your car. This is something you should do with your pool as well. And I think, yeah, for your it's a bit different because your your parts are mostly the curtains out of the water.
SPEAKER_02Some some are especially water curtains, are outside the pools, but the others like uh hydromassage and uh swimjet uh are of course also the same uh like yours in the water. But for things like water curtains, okay, we basically it's also not a lot of maintenance. If you regularly just polish it with a soft cloth to uh to get rid of uh possible raindrops, which you would see like on a car, you could also see this uh a little bit. And if you're not satisfied, every now and then, and I can't tell you how often, but less than once a year, you you you polish it uh with a special stainless steel cleaner, uh like Ferroclin uh Visco, but there are many others which you could you know basically uh buy in the do-it-yourself shops. So really there is not a lot of maintenance. And uh yes, and this brings us to a uh another very uh interesting addition to stainless steel. Can you tell us a little bit about it, Angela?
SPEAKER_01Yes, I know what you mean, and we did make a podcast just before, I think, or one before it was where we talked about the black line because we have our stainless steel, you and me, now also in black. And yes, so it's something very outstanding, and now we had a little time since the last time we talked about it to feel it really how the market reacts to it. And I do have to say I've been traveling this year a bit, and I was in going from South Europe to really North Europe, and people are they just love it because they say and you know it's something different uh for the pool, and it really everybody kind of agrees that it probably very, very looks very nice in a in a grey, dark grey, light grey kind of pool. So we have both and me, you and me, we have all our stainless steel parts now in black. It's called black line, and for you it's called black diamond. That's oh I love that one actually. And so, yeah, we have our pools, yeah. All the parts are in black. We can even uh mix them. So if you think okay, yes, yes, Michael, say something.
SPEAKER_02And and I must be must be honest, uh, when we uh when we launched this, we didn't know what to expect from the feedback from the market, and so and we were we are overwhelmed with positive feedback from from pool builders, from uh distributors that uh everybody seems to love this uh black lineman blah black diamond uh line. And uh the only thing uh where we are uh restricted is on size. So a very big water curtain uh cannot be done in black line, but there we have the Cobra Carbon in black, which but inside the pool we are the same as with you. All the parts uh are available in uh in uh black line, and so we will see this summer where it's going to. The feedback's very positive, and uh we are looking forward to it. And uh but uh like I said, it was it surprised us a little bit, and uh but now of course we are quite happy about it.
SPEAKER_01Yes, the big success. And I think it would be nice if our listener, if somebody really has it already in their pool, that they please send us some photos. That would be really lovely to see.
SPEAKER_02Yes, and uh well this uh brings us uh uh to the uh end of the uh podcast. And uh so Angela, tell me what did you learn today?
SPEAKER_01I learned I love stainless spiel after this podcast even more than I did before. I think it's such a really such a nice product, such a beautiful element we have here. We create it, you know, we have in this world. Uh of course, we like it for pools, but stainless steel, of course, is used uh in a lot of other um applications as well. It is a very beautiful product, and I learned um something also very interested in for the pool industry that you really have to use a good stainless steel and always the same quality of the material uh of the 316 L or the other one we have mentioned in the pool, and then it that you cannot take a lower grade because then that creates problems. So, Michael, what have you learned?
SPEAKER_02Yes, well, since uh you are more in the water treatment than uh we are, uh you came with uh uh additional uh information uh that that is also important next to uh just uh salt water content, the salt content in the water, and that's this uh special index. So for me there was uh something very interest interesting to learn. And uh yes, so thank you very much. Uh I did it it didn't feel like you were uh uh whatever the distance is from Amsterdam to Barcelona so far away. It felt like we were sitting together somewhere on the terrace discussing uh discussing stainless steel. So thank you very much. And uh I would like to say you can write us with any comments or questions at mail at uh sorry let me uh repeat the email address mail at swimmingpool minus podcast.com One more time mail at swimmingpool minus podcast.com Goodbye.
SPEAKER_00Dank you welcome bye bye international the swimming pool podcast.