SWIMMINGPOOL INTERNATIONAL
The podcast from pool experts for everyone
SWIMMINGPOOL INTERNATIONAL
#2: SCP - A success story - Interview with Jean-Louis Albouy and Karine Ravaux
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Swimming pool international, the swimming pool podcast.
SPEAKER_02A warm welcome to our international swimming pool podcast. In front of me sits Angela. Angela Hermann, International Sales Manager at Banker Manufacturing in Germany.
SPEAKER_04And in front of me sits Michael, Michael Fissher, Export Manager at Fluwus Schmalenberger from Tübingen in Germany. Hello, Michael.
SPEAKER_02Hi Angela, how are you today?
SPEAKER_04Not bad, not bad. Actually, I'm in a very good place here. Imagine in Paris.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Today we are at SCP European headquarters in Paris. We are meeting Karine, European Sales Coordinator.
SPEAKER_04And Jean-Louis, the general manager, responsible for all sales SCP of Europe.
SPEAKER_02So uh Jean-Louis, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, Karine. Um, I have the first question for you. Can you tell us a bit about yourself? How long have you been in the pool business?
SPEAKER_01Hello, uh Michael Aloya. Um fine to see you here in Paris with a fabulous day in this period of time. Um I am the general manager of uh SCP in Europe and in the industry since more than 35 years now in the swimming pool industry. More or less born in the pool, you can say. My dad was uh a swimming pool uh supplier, he built some pools uh from the 1960s all around.
SPEAKER_02Wow, and how did you uh end up at uh SCP?
SPEAKER_01Um I'm handed at SCP in uh 1999 after the acquisition of my distribution business. Originally, inside my family, I got a distribution of oil and tires, nothing link about the swimming pool. And with that, we create uh from the 80s a distribution business in uh in swimming pool, uh starting from the 80s uh in the southwest of France, and uh Pool Corp acquired a business in 1999. That's mean I have been nominated general manager of France uh before joining uh SCP Europe uh two years ago.
SPEAKER_02Ah, okay.
SPEAKER_04And Karim, how about you? How did you end up in the pool sector?
SPEAKER_03Hello Angela, hello Michael. Very strange story, isn't it? After 25 years in the consumer electronics, I just wanted a bit of change. So I was looking more into leisure, pleasure, health. This is where I wanted to be working, and it came I came upon and across this uh interview with uh a company looking for a sales coordinator. I thought that would be a lot of uh fun, interesting, and um also getting new information on a new business. So I joined two years ago SCP Europe, and I'm so glad to be here.
SPEAKER_04Interesting. And just coming straight to the question for this job, what you have that big post, no? What is most challenging in your position? Yeah, what is the most challenging?
SPEAKER_03Well, I don't know if we can talk about challenging, but what's the most exciting is that I'm working with our top vendors, so about 32 vendors that deal 80% of our business Europe wide, and the biggest interest is to do a win-win strategy. The idea is that the more I sell, the better it is for the vendor, and vice versa. So we go into cooperation, and that makes the job exciting and every day positive.
SPEAKER_02Right. Great.
SPEAKER_04What energy you spread that energy. Actually, yesterday I read your again and link it in, and you talk about enthusiasm, and that's what I feel.
SPEAKER_03Thank you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, John Lewe. Um I would like to know uh since you are in the sector so a long time, uh, tell me a little bit about history about SCP. How did it come across the ocean from Pool Corp? And when was it founded? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh yes, uh it's a long story. Uh SCP means South Central Pool. Uh the company starting uh created by a guy called Frank Saint-Romain on the distribution business in south of US in Louisiana, because SCP means south for US, central for Louisiana, and pool for business of poor. And the company have changing in 1995 after the big jump on some acquisition and new location that company created, they entrance in the Nasdaq stock market in 1995, and then they leverage some Hammond to create more business, uh, especially in US. And they create uh in 1999 56 locations in South Florida, California, and also Texas. And they jump in the moon after acquisition on the second largest distribution uh superior pool in US. And uh uh last year we finalized uh the last opening we done globally in the group, and now we have 426 locations worldwide, including Europe, of course, by the acquisition in '98 from uh UK NORCAL pool supply. And then uh the company continued to increase the business of acquisition in Europe by Portugal, my business in France, and also business in Italy, Germany, and uh all around also in Croatia, uh, three years ago. That's been um we are a worldwide company with a main presence in all the continent, including also Australia. We have six locations. I take care, of course. Uh I am now also managing the business in Australia from Europe because we are really close market together.
SPEAKER_04And you're very close also from distance.
SPEAKER_02Okay, well, uh that's a massive company. Um, well, and being so big, uh, you have several ways, Karim, to uh bring the product to the customers. Uh can you tell me a little bit more about that? Does it does it go exclusively to your own branch offices? Does it go to an external dealer network? Do you sell online? How can the customer find you?
SPEAKER_03So, first of all, we're a B2B distribution company, so we only address our products to our pro dealers. Right. So professional dealers who renovate, build, maintain pools. We don't sell to the end consumer directly. Um, so this is the big bunch of our customers, about 75% of them. They are professional dealers all over Europe. And they can find our products through, of course, our branches, because we do have counter sales in different countries. As of today, we have 17 branches. The last one opened uh at the beginning of the year in Rome. Uh, but the idea is to extend to 44 counters around Europe within five years. So we want to be closer to our professional dealers. That's the first way you can find our products. But then we have about 130 salespeople on the road that go to our customers that offer the best solutions in terms of product, in terms of efficiency in service, after sales, deliveries, and of course, the most important, which makes a difference between a good and a bad distributor, maybe, and that is all the advice that we give to our uh professional dealers to help them on the everyday basis. So they can find also their products through our um our salespeople. But then we are in a digital world and we have a digital application dedicated to them where they can also place orders over the internet and get delivered, or maybe just driving to one of our agencies and to get the products from there. So these are all the ways they can get the product from us. A simple call as well. We'll do the we'll do the deal as well. Uh but uh yes, this is the way we work. Now, this is our professional dealers, 75%. The rest is what we call retail, must market, do it yourself, onliners, pro you know, dedicated onliners, but also generalist onliners. And so there again, we sell to these people, and it is mainly through our key account managers that we have in each country.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so that means the uh homeowners, the end users will have to find uh go through your dealer network. Uh um they cannot go uh approach you directly.
SPEAKER_03We don't have any direct shop, if that's the question.
SPEAKER_02Yes, that was the question. Okay, so these counters are meant for pool builders that go to these counters.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Okay, great, very interesting. And uh and it works the same in all countries, it works the same in all countries.
SPEAKER_03We're really dedicated to the professional dealers. This is really the heart of our business, and we distribute very major brands as well. So the idea is to have this close relation and trustworthy uh relation with our uh professional dealers and the products that we distribute.
SPEAKER_02Okay, thanks very much.
SPEAKER_04Jean-Louis coming leading from this question to you just talked about Europe and how how you work. What are the main differences and the demands in different countries in Europe?
SPEAKER_01Um based on my personal analyze, and and you know that because you're you're also a supplier, and then you know exactly that the market is different between the north and the south of Europe, and especially depending on when you put the level of the middle, um, and we can consider that France can be a part of the middle, especially France North, uh, will be the part of the middle of Europe, we can say, because south of France is more basic stuff, uh, and and exactly the same for Spain market and some south also in Italy. That will be the basic pool with a filter, a pump, a light, and that's it. No really good equipment, and it'll be uh what I mean comfort product. When you go more on the now on the north of Europe, of course, like Germany, that as you know, and also all the Netherlands part, Belgian part, UK part, is more high-end level of product and especially um eco-friendly products, technologic product, variable speed pump, uh comfort product on heating, for example, with a lot of heat pump, and all the control and digital things that uh the home honor and the swimming pool builder installed to the driving the pool, for example. That will be more high-hand level, we can say, uh, than the south, where more basic and uh simple way of using the pool.
SPEAKER_04Okay, um, and don't you think it comes when it comes from north that somehow it comes to the south?
SPEAKER_01Somehow, yes, you know, the situation in the market actually, based on uh eco-friendly and energy costs and everything, now it's coming not from the swimming pool demand, the pro, and I mean that came from the homeowner now, and that's not only in the swimming pool industry, that's all around. I can consider that uh in all different industries, every homeowner, consumer asking for solutions uh and especially on energy saving, and that's good and interesting. I mean, it's really great opportunity for us because I consider now there is more and more demand on this area, and uh and especially on new solutions. That's mean that's good because the industry of supplier and an industry of uh vendors are going to turn the way of that if they want to resist in the markets. We have to change also our distribution organization to go on this way of business, and of course, the pro installers on the guiding management, the the retrofit of the poor, have to turn his business on the way of energy saving product and eco-friendly product. That means that's all industry needs to move on this way, and I consider this really interesting because that will be a consumer demand.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so it's really moving. Uh before it was more that the the the uh manufacturers uh was pushing the products into the market, now it's more demanded by the consumers, driven by energy consumption awareness.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I think is is a mix, uh, is a kind of things like the consumer now and is we are in a difficult period of time actually. That's been based on the demand due to the fact of the inflation, due to the fact of the war in Ukraine, the economic situation one year ago, one was that, and then we we're suffering about the demand now on new construction due to the situation, economic situation uh um uh in Europe and the inflation. But what I consider based on the high end, you are right. That's been the consumer demand now is there, and then the consumers asking for what is uh energy efficiency on your pool. Uh, okay, if I put a heat pump, what are the energy costs for putting a heat pump? That was not the case in the past. Right. The costume, the consumer just asking for pleasure and leisure pool, and that's it. Now the question is really, really uh uh question mark for the homeowner. And not only on the pool, on the spa also. More and more demanding on what are the costs of uh water treatment, what are the costs of electricity to eat my spa, and we see more and more uh question on that, and that will be really interesting because we are going to be obliged, all of us industry, suppliers, distributors, to train the dealer on that aspect.
SPEAKER_02Right, okay, very interesting times.
SPEAKER_04It is and uh coming here because we are in France at the moment, so I have to ask something about France, and we all wonder always in the industry. France is the biggest market of swimming pool and wellness in Europe. And of course, you eat very well, so maybe it comes through the food. I don't know. I always wonder. We just have this very easy question: why is actually France the biggest market?
SPEAKER_01I I think is uh why is really difficult to answer to you is a question of consumer um spirit of take care about themselves. That means if I compare all my friend or all me, everybody wants to have a pool. When you have a certain size of uh a backyard, uh and especially when you have a small home with uh 100 meters square of backyard, you want to do something in your backyard. And um there is uh plenty of things to organize behind your backyard. And the first thinking of the consumer is I want to have my terrace, I want to have a barbecue, I want to have my hardware kitchen, and also I want to have a pool. Um, you know, some new generations say also, I want to have my vegetable garden with some uh sometimes some um vegetable things for take care about myself and uh that I think is uh French spirit that to have something inside a backyard behind them and and especially a swimming pool is really appreciated. For smile what I say, family spirit and friend spirit. Uh every French like to spend time in the backyard with some friend, take care about the barbecue, spend Friday evening you know, together, and uh not sometimes using the pool, it's just for pleasure. What I mean.
SPEAKER_04So you really savour vivre, no?
SPEAKER_01Uh perhaps it's a savoir-vivre, like you say. Uh and that's why there is uh also so plenty of pool install base, and especially, of course, in all the Sunbelt area of Mediterranean Sea coast and uh all the you know the southwest area. Well, the weather is good, also. There is something that is really interesting, you know, during this next weekend it will be 21 degrees. That would be really appreciated to go outside and take care about it.
SPEAKER_02And if I may ask, is there a big difference uh between south and northern France in that respect?
SPEAKER_01Definitely, yes, and also on type of pool, but I mean is exactly what I mentioned already to you based on the north and the south. Uh, if you go to the north of Normandy, for example, the pool are completely different. When you go to the southeast, that is more of a small fiberglass pool and six by three meters, you know, just the lights and and uh a step, and and you got a filter there. When you go on the north, some uh some of them are wow, very big, uh uh very big size of the pool, large one with automatic covers, uh, all the confort product, uh, all the all the things are completely different because also lifestyle is different on the north than the south on some areas, and concentration again. It's been uh when you go to the southeast on the what we say the French river, uh the concentration of pool is so huge, and then because also the size of the garden and backyard is so small, that means you have a small pool there, versus when you go to the north, of course, like more in Germany, for example, in Netherlands or Belgium, the size of the land is more large, and you have one 500 or 1,000 uh backyard to install a pool, that means the size of the pool is more larger.
SPEAKER_02Right. Well, if I if I may add, if even the difference between the Netherlands and Belgium, I come from Holland, and Belgium uh uh a little bit more south, have everybody has a pool, and in Holland it's more something really special because we have small gardens in Holland, but in Belgium it's it's so it is it's almost comparable to uh northern southern friends.
SPEAKER_01I was trying to and I think something it is really important to capture also, actually, in uh in our industry, and I think globally in Europe, ask the question to a homeowner do you just install the new in a new house with a garden? If you ask something, what are the first things you want to put in equipment? The guy say a poor, of course, because it's pleasure uh for him and for his family, and also for something, because all the study that have been done uh if you take a house without a pool and a house with a pool in the same area uh to resell it, uh give uh more value, and then uh that's really interesting uh today, and especially actually during the 2023 season. Did you prefer to put the money in a bank or do you prefer to put the money in the pool? And I consider to put the money in the pool is uh to the uh to this home and to extend this home with the swim pool is better to put the money in the bank, and uh that's why we can I consider that in industry is really cool for us for the next future.
SPEAKER_02Right. Okay, very interesting. I have a question for you, uh Karine. It's it's actually uh France is is known uh especially in the private pools, as one of the uh leaders in new developments, uh when it comes to safety, when it comes to efficiency, and uh very soon uh uh new safety regulations for private pools will be implemented. But what I'm really interested in is these so-called uh efficiency regulations, where you have the same as with household appliances, you have a label on your pool uh regarding the different um uh products, whether it's light, whether it's the filter system. Uh you will have labels uh on this and it will be dictated by regulations. Can you tell us a little bit more? Uh uh how do you see this going, moving? Uh is it coming soon? Do you know? Can you say anything about it?
SPEAKER_03Sure. So as a distributor, we don't actually manufacture products, so we are not really the ones that are acting on this efficiency mode. But of course, we will be implementing information, advice, as I said earlier on, to help dealers so that they can themselves be more reactive and more responsive to these efficiency regulations. So, indeed, there is a regulation that will come soon in force, but maybe yet not clearly defined on how it will on the long run be input in a home that you're gonna sell, for instance. Uh, what kind of efficiency do you need to prove to someone you're going to sell your house to? These questions still haven't been answered because a pool at a certain period of time is an A, B, or C efficiency, but as it moves on, the efficiency may be lowered, or on the other way around, if you add a cover to your pool, then you are increasing the efficiency. So a pool is something that you will equip along the years, that you will renovate, that will you will upgrade, and all of these changes will have an impact on the efficiency. Now, all this is not yet well defined according to us, but what is sure is that as soon as our vendors will put on the market products and label them with efficiency grades, we will be communicating around this to our dealers so they can also communicate it to the end user. As Jean-Louis was saying today, it mainly comes from the end user to have efficiency and eco-friendly products more than dealers who are really here to be efficient in constructing and renovating, but sometimes a little bit shy about the up cost that all this efficiency generates.
SPEAKER_04But then it will also um raise the value of the house and the property, right?
SPEAKER_03Of course. That's what we uh we know and that's why we will communicate and be more explicit. For instance, in our catalogs, we will have we already have some green leaves where the products have more efficiency in in electricity consumption, in water consumption, and the idea is really to reinforce this image and to classify our offers amongst the most efficient to the least efficient. It has an impact on the cost, but then it will be easier for our dealers to explain it to the end user. Because all of them want to have efficiency pool now they have to understand why there is an up cost to it.
SPEAKER_02Right. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Yeah these are uh it will be not always be easy but it also have uh big opportunities for the future obviously everybody will have to change their old equipment to new generation equipment and that will be for the good of the earth and for the good of our business.
SPEAKER_01Yes yes that's uh absolutely correct and coming to the good um I would like to ask you you know we are a lot on airports myself like to hang around in bookstores and there are a lot of books about healthy life long living be happy and I wonder what actually our industry can do or does for for it if I may uh Angela we are in the incredible industry for that leisure and pleasure that means if you ask to all the employers especially new employers we can ask that to Karine uh but she came from an outside industry nothing ling with but when you entrance in the swimming pool industry as if I may when I ask to a friend or when we discuss in uh outside and say oh you work for what I work for pool corp uh swimming pool industry you see the face of the guy he's smiling that's been it's all the time the same we work in an incredible industry because we we sell leisure and pleasure we say homeowner satisfaction and pleasure when I see kids uh go inside the pool with ma'am and grandma happy you know we we we we make very very good things so pleasure to the homeowners and that's fabulous what I mean I like I like the way of working in my industry because I like to share pleasure to to all employers and also to the customer and you see the last young show for example you see the happiness there of uh the swim pool industry that was so fantastic that means let's continue yeah let's continue in this way and give pressure to uh to everybody including manufacturing employers and what I mean and customer and homeowners. Well I love that yeah that's great um and the next question uh coming from this uh yeah what are actually the at most adventurous innovative products you have you're offering at the moment what we feel actually based on the on the market is that there is more renovation uh than new construction and we know that and uh uh the the number of uh swimming pools need to be uh remodeling and more comfort and changing um are more or less two or three million to achieve in the next few years all around Europe and we are SCP Europe level we invest a lot of money there on the concentration of renovating market and that's been we have uh one central uh stock location now in Lyon we have a full catalogue of spare parts more than uh 16 000 items with a very dedicated catalog for recovering all the have to sell business because I consider that the swimming pool dealers need to have that the consumer also and I can consider the category or remodeling are the categories where we have decided to invest money and that's a more exciting category actually and you see when I go through that you see the number of different colors and aspects of PVC realm or color of liner changing or lifestyles changing now also on product and I mean that's more a category where I I used to have taken pleasure based on that than the product himself if I may and just for pleasure of product I like toys and game in the swimming pool because I like happiness of kids swimming in the pool. And this is the next category where we're going to observe that part because you know for retail stores to have happiness and flootable things and everything is is is really good. It's cool and because again we share pleasure but uh in general to answer your question is more a category and especially on remodeling things than one product dedicated.
SPEAKER_04I think that's interesting because since you are the leading market or the biggest market in France no this will sooner or later come to other countries no where they still buy or implement new pools but sooner or later that will come to the others as well right yeah well I actually do have a product that I prefer and that is everything that is linked to automation.
SPEAKER_03I remember when I was a kid we used to have a pool in the backyard and I remember my father spending about two to three hours every Saturday morning taking care of that pool that I would enjoy every single day with friends. And when I see the efficiency of those automation and the way you can save time and and really take more time in in the pool than besides the pool taking care of water treatment about all the cleaning about the heating about all this I think automation connectivity taking care of your pool at a distance making sure everything is on track is something that I find really really interesting and really uh cool because I do remember the face of my father every Saturday morning and I think that makes a difference.
SPEAKER_01Yes and it goes further and further everything from your phone and you know it like in the past you throw threw in a bag of salt now you have dosing systems etc etc totally sad for the pool boy I have to say yeah yeah that's uh yeah but we need to believe also on something that is really important and I think so uh we know US because we are pool corp and there is a lot of service guys automatization is in place and everything is in place but uh we need to take care of one thing in Europe in my consideration is the fact that swimming pools are open for March or April and closing in September. After that I can tell you the consumer didn't believe in us. You see the swimming pool winterized and didn't think about that. That's mean every time that the swimming pool is open and uh especially at the is the barbecue day we can say when the guy does the barbecue is open the swimming pool then it takes care about effectively the maintenance and and how to drive with this pool with automatization. But after that spare of time nothing think about swimming pool yet that means that is the mix between be careful about technology do not go too large and on development if you are a supplier go more on simple things to drive the business during the season but not during the full here that is really different between our business here in Europe versus the US business because some supplier things globally worldwide that we need to adapt the product at the European side.
SPEAKER_02Yes yes yes okay quite interesting and um well in general uh a question um uh to uh finish off this very interesting interview is uh is the trends and the market expectations for coming years given the fact that we now have this energy transition uh we talked about it during the meeting uh during this discussion already a little bit uh that it's more um uh consumer driven than anything else uh but are there yeah is there anything more that you can add to this uh the expectations uh the trends for the coming year years uh start Karine and you finish that will be the best yes the um if we cut the season by quarter that will be the best because uh first quarter is this uh early early season we can say and we entrance now in the Q2.
SPEAKER_01Um the Q1 is really difficult to compare this year versus last year of course because there was a very dropping down uh uh situation due to what you know and energy efficiency the war versus last year because last year was the perfect time on Q1 January and February really big jump on because it was we still uh take the benefit of the COVID situation that means we it's difficult to compare Q1 this year versus last year because of course the COVID impact plus uh all the economic and war in Ukraine have been impacting yourself uh during the season for the expectation now of q2 q3 and we can say q4 uh we are confident on that because uh uh we just wait about the good weather uh of course uh and then the good temperature again to make the barbecue outside and open the swimming pool because if all the pools are open in the same period of time of course the consumer demand will be there on all the aspects of eat treat and clean and especially on retail segment and then uh you know the guys have to replace an heat palm the guy to have to replace uh a water treatment solution and everything are going to be uh more active and based on the number of pools that we have today I considered that the trend will be more better in Q2 uh Q3 this year compared to last year where there was very big impact on the war and impact on the inflation that's been um you see people traveling people are all around you see the number of airports full of people uh is good for the HMAC market hotel camping you know tourism area that's been that's also part of the business of our industry and that's mean that's uh I'm confident a little bit regarding uh all the maintenance and all this uh type of for construction is of course a little bit different because the demand will be dropping down due to the energy cost and we know that we have proved that but on um maintenance and service and retail I'm I'm confident where we're just waiting and cross the finger running the weather.
SPEAKER_04Okay I tell you in Spain I came yesterday it was already 27 degrees so great there's big hope.
SPEAKER_03Yeah well that was for 2023 I will answer the question on beyond. So I'm a newcomer in the pool industry so I have maybe a vision which is a little bit different. I think we have a very bright future in front of us for many reasons. The first of one is because compared to the previous business I was in where it was just a question of buying and potentially rebuying when the product was broken, we are in an industry where we have an installed base. So the more pools you do, the more business it will generate for the future not only in water treatment on a on an everyday basis but also on the renovations coming up. So we have a never-ending story business so that's a good part of it no matter what happens with new constructions less or more depending on the years. So that's number one thing which I believe gives us a bright future. Number two again coming from somewhere else I see there is a lack of maturity in this industry. Our dealers still need more support still need more understanding and more training and that's what we're going to be dedicating our efforts to because we need to give them more information make them more salespeople today they are just um you know building pools which I would admire because I don't know how to do anything with my 10 fingers but I think we can give them more added value. So that's why I think we still have ongoing business we talked already about product efficiency that we're going to need to change because we only have one planet and we have to take care of it. So that's in the trend people go against pool but that's not the way it goes we need to have pools but we need to have cleaner pools. So for all these reasons I think we have a very bright future in front of us and um there's there aren't so many act so many actors in the business. So as far as SCP is concerned we have a plan and Jean-Louis hasn't mentioned it but he has a very ambitious plan in the five coming years and all around the office we're very secure on how to reach it and so we're very happy uh and I feel there's a bright feature for us.
SPEAKER_02Great that uh that makes it also good for us.
SPEAKER_04Yeah what a positive spirit of how we leave this so good in our industry um as we love them all no it's such a lovely yeah sector to work in no as we have mentioned.
SPEAKER_02Yeah that was very good very interesting thank you so much merci beaucoup thank you for coming over thank you very much for your time very interesting uh background information and uh always good to talk to people from the pool business definitely thank you very much thank you you can write us with any comments or questions at mail at swimmingpool minus podcast dot com goodbye dancing gracias merci well swimming pool international the swimming pool podcast