#1: Visiting the biggest trade fair for pools and spa in the world

Today Angela and Michael are visiting Piscine Global in Lyon/France, the world's largest pool and spa trade fair. They will have short interviews with Jiri Zemek from Niveco, Juri Katz from Maytronics, Korcan Kortoglu from Sankurt and Dominik Graf from Dryden Aqua about products from the swimming pool industry and their innovations, differences in some countries and impressions of the fair. But most of all, they will talk about water treatment in general, water features, the different types of pools and energy savings.

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:02

Swimming Pool International, the swimming pool podcast.

SPEAKER_04 0:18

A warm welcome to our international swimming pool podcast. We talk about dream pools around the world. In front of me sits Angela. Angela Herrmann, International Sales Manager at Banker Manufacturing in Germany.

SPEAKER_05 0:33

And in front of me sits Michael Feser, Export Manager at Fluvor Schmalenberger from Tübingen in Germany. Hi Michael.

SPEAKER_04 0:42

How are you?

SPEAKER_05 0:43

Oh, I'm pretty well.

SPEAKER_04 0:44

Good.

SPEAKER_05 0:45

Exciting time now.

SPEAKER_04 0:46

Yes, yes, yes. I'm really happy to be here.

SPEAKER_05 0:49

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 0:50

Today we are actually at the first day of the Piscine in Lyon, the 27th edition. Wow, can you believe that?

SPEAKER_05 0:58

27th? Yes, it's no, and it's already every two years. It's like, oh my god, when did they start?

SPEAKER_04 1:05

So it's like more than 50 years ago. It started in the late 70s.

SPEAKER_05 1:08

Wow, that's impressing.

SPEAKER_04 1:10

I didn't know that. No. And it's it's the biggest fair for pools and spas in the world with visitors, visitors from all around. And of course, we are very excited to meet international customers, friends, and partners, and to to see finally have a show again.

SPEAKER_05 1:29

And here we are in Lyon, and kind of a little bit in the center, let's say, of France. I hope I say it correctly. And yes, it's a very, very nice city. It has a beautiful city centre. Very old, actually. I read that Lyon is over 2,000 years old, and it's a world heritage. Wow. And of course, it's famous for food. Yes. So famous for French food. And there I have a little story. I remember when I came driving to towards Lyon and I said, Oh my yeah, I studied in Lijon when I was younger. Okay. And I had this friend, and he always bring me some pastry from Lyon. Okay. So it's very famous here. Um, yeah, French food from from this area is famous even in France. So I think we have some time to enjoy that too.

SPEAKER_04 2:21

Okay, well, I also understood there's a light a nice bakery inside. Maybe we can try a pastry next later on.

SPEAKER_05 2:28

Yeah, let's start with this, no?

SPEAKER_04 2:30

And uh what also is so exciting, the show uh due to COVID uh didn't take place in 2020, so it's four years now. It has been four years. So I'm really, really eager to uh to meet our customers again and to see new products.

SPEAKER_05 2:47

Yeah, and I was I had the chance to walk around yesterday while they were building already some stands, and I thought this time really I see a lot of um exhibitors, yeah, and I think it will be very seriously interesting what new products are out in a swimming pool and wellness industry.

SPEAKER_04 3:06

Yes, and tell us a bit, uh Angela, why are we doing this podcast?

SPEAKER_05 3:12

We are doing it because, as you mentioned, it's about the dream pool. We want to inform our listeners to yes, what is new in the market, what can you do with the pool, what types of pools out there? We will talk about water treatment, about a big topic here in Europe at the moment, about energy saving, about water features, because the pool you can do so much more nowadays. It's not like maybe 30 years ago when you really went into a pool to swim and do exercise. Nowadays it's also uh yeah, a place to leisure, to sit around, and to have a lot of attractions.

SPEAKER_04 3:50

Um so, yeah, we want to inform, and uh also let people know that there is a difference uh in the markets. Uh in Europe, it's all about energy saving currently, while in India it's maybe more about wellness. So there's so much topics that we can cover uh over time. Exactly. Uh I would say have a very good show and uh let's uh see who we can meet today.

SPEAKER_05 4:14

Yeah, and we are here. You don't see it, but we are seriously here sitting at the entrance. So yeah, it's really time to walk in and talk to people, talk to partners, to other industries who produce or or sell products for the pool. And yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_04 4:34

Okay, let's go.

SPEAKER_05 4:36

Yes, hello. We're still here in Lyon, and we have we're super excited because it's our first interview partner we really have, and we do um it's Korchan here. Welcome. And he's from Sandkort. We she actually has those kind of projects, what we are talking about, the Dream Pool. And he has a company which is situated in Turkey as well as in Germany. And yes, uh, I want to hear something. I'm very excited to listen to what you have to tell us.

SPEAKER_04 5:06

Yes, so although we know uh you Korchan, please uh tell us a little bit about yourself and your company.

SPEAKER_03 5:13

Thank you very much. I'm also very uh happy to be a part of this podcast. Um, as you both know, our company uh is a 40-year-old company, a family company from Turkey, originated from Turkey, Istanbul. We have subsidiaries in uh Istanbul, in Bodrum, Turkey, and also in Germany in Dortmund. Um, so we employ uh about hundred uh people uh all around Europe, and we are doing um from private pools to hotel projects and to uh public pools um a lot of uh square meters uh per year. So we are happy to be a part of this, and uh yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_04 5:55

Okay, very uh very interesting. So you started uh in in Germany how many how long ago?

SPEAKER_03 6:02

In Germany we started three years ago, and we uh have already a lot of projects in Germany. In Germany, the pool market is uh growing a lot uh faster. Uh and uh so we are very happy with our investment in Germany, and we hope to do more, of course, in the following years.

SPEAKER_04 6:19

Okay. And what and and uh yeah, well, you can ask.

SPEAKER_05 6:23

And I think I just thought about Turkey and I thought about the stream destination. No, you have such a beautiful landscape, and you have to see you now you must have amazing projects.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Uh actually, yes, uh, we have a lot of projects in Turkey, and we have a lot of projects with the with branded projects uh that we call them. Uh we made uh with cooperation of German companies, we made this uh Ritz-Karlton Residences Boardroom project. Uh it finished in 2020. It was with 75 villas, and 75 villas had all uh both uh all had pools, and uh now we are doing the Ritz Carlton Istanbul project that's uh different investor but the same brand. And the Ritz Carlton Istanbul has uh a very it's a big skyscraper, so to say, and it has uh penthouse pools, it has indoor pool, outdoor pool at Spa area, and it's a very fascinating project, as to say.

SPEAKER_04 7:20

I can I can imagine and what do you love so much about this job?

SPEAKER_03 7:24

Um uh actually I can say what I love about my job is uh I'm also a civil engineer, so I'm uh in in construction business. Uh what I can say the most I like in my project in our job is uh we can finish a very beautiful project in a couple of months. So we are satisfied in a couple of months, and we can see the end of our project, and we can see the end result, and that's uh very, very uh satisfying for us.

SPEAKER_04 7:50

Yes, instead of years and years.

SPEAKER_03 7:52

Yes. Uh for a normal for a normal civil engineer or an engineer or an architect, you have to wait two or three years until you see the result of your project. But in swimming pool business or in spa business, you can see in a couple of months what you have done, what you have accomplished. I I think it's the best of our uh business, plus part of our business.

SPEAKER_05 8:09

Yes, uh just one question when you're aware while you were talking about this came to my mind, and I I thought what is actually special in the Turkish market and maybe different from the German market in in terms of pools and wellness industry.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

Uh that's a very good question, actually. Uh I th I we are uh aware of both markets. We work in both markets in Germany, in Europe and in Turkey. So uh there's a actually there's a very huge and uh important difference between two markets. In Turkey, if um a family, if uh a customer can achieve to uh have a pool, uh he has uh less awareness of money, a less awareness of cost. In Turkey, we have if I have to have a pool, I have to have the best. So we have always concrete pools with tiles, with the best tiles, and infinity pools with the best controllers, with the best filtration systems. But in Germany, it means I can have a pool and that's it. So I think uh the way to look at the luxury uh is different in both markets because uh Turkey is a Mediterranean country, of course, and Germany is a middle European company, and I think uh the um country, and so uh we have uh these differences. I think I think it's a important difference. If you achieve a luxury market in Turkey, you are more successful than you can be in uh Europe.

SPEAKER_05 9:34

I think that's very interesting for us as international salespeople, right?

SPEAKER_04 9:37

Absolutely, absolutely. And how do you see the future of the pool world?

SPEAKER_03 9:42

I think the pool world will uh develop further. Uh the energy crisis that we are right now, we're living in right now, it's of course a problem, but I think it will be we will have better solutions. We have the pool covers, we have the better insulations, we have the um more um effective pumps, more effective uh uh controllers. So I think we will uh develop ourselves better in this area to solve the energy crisis. And uh everybody is loving their homes. And I I think the private pool business is going to develop um much more further.

SPEAKER_04 10:18

So you're actually quite positive.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

I'm positive.

SPEAKER_04 10:21

Okay, great. Well, thank you very much for uh for uh this uh in small interview and uh appreciate your time, and it was very uh interesting what you had to say, and uh yeah, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_03 10:33

I thank you, and I appreciate it also.

SPEAKER_05 10:35

Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye bye, bye. Hi, Yuri, Yuri Katz from Myatronics here in Lyon at the biggest show world for swimming pools and wellness in the world. It is we are very excited to have you here on our table and like to ask you some questions. Perfect.

SPEAKER_04 10:56

Yes, so it's after so many years, it's so exciting to be here again, and good to see you, Yuri.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Yeah, you can hear the noise at the background. So many people running around after four years. It's amazing to meet again with people to see what's new in the market. It's really an event, and we are very happy to be here as well.

SPEAKER_05 11:16

Okay, so you said what is new in the market. Yeah, let us know something, what you do and what is new.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

You know, Metronics as usual is at the edge of the technology. We are thinking of the future, and we are introducing now a very nice robot called the Liberty. Basically, it's following the trends of other tools and so, which is a battery-driven robot with very, very nice features. I would like to tell you about. And is it all available already, or will it be for next season? We uh we are now in the stage where we are testing the product. We are at the final stage, we are very happy with the results. The product will be available for the market starting January 2023, and it will be a product uh suitable, of course, it's on the Dolphin platform that everybody knows. It's a very nice robot with a running time of one and a half hours, suitable for pools up to 10 meters. It has inductive charging, which is a very nice feature, not exposing it or the contacts to erosion and things like that. It has very nice LED indicators in the front showing the end customer exactly what he wants to know, how long the battery lasts, activating is on off, very very easy. Scrubs and collect the dirt like all the dolphins are doing, and it's a very nice unit and it looks really sexy. And it's cabless, it's cabless, exactly. So, as I said, instead of a cable, we have an inductive charging. The charging takes about four hours, and the robot is running for one and a half hours and does a beautiful job, and we are so happy and so and I I assume the end customer will also be excited and happy with the result of this nice product.

SPEAKER_04 13:16

Oh great, and it will be available for Europe as well as US.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

We are uh allowing it and in entering into all markets with the product. We are doing a soft launch, what we call, because the end customer is an unknown factor for us. You know, the customer used a cable, they are used to have the robot for several weeks sometimes in the pool. Here we are talking about a very, very different technology, and it will be a very interesting uh feedback from the customer how they like to have a robot, not only a drilling machine or a handy or a car, but a water robot that runs around and cleans the pool.

SPEAKER_05 14:01

And it all works on an app now?

SPEAKER_00 14:03

You can the this is a topic which for now is uh not fully integrated because you know that the robot is submerging underwater, it doesn't have any communication, so the app operates when the robot is outside. You can configure the robot. Once it's in the water, there is no communication, and the robot is independent. But you have the very advanced scanning system of metronics that makes sure that the robot covers the whole pool regardless what shape or surface it has.

SPEAKER_05 14:38

And I know that was for me super exciting. You have a little tool that the robot is even listening, like a little bell. I was like, wow.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

This is a very nice tool, it's a clicker. Basically, the robot stops at the wall after one and a half hour scanning. So you have two options either you can start fishing the robot out of the water, or you click with the clicker. We have a microphone integrated into the robot, it recognizes the voice and it climbs to the waterline and waits patiently for you to take it out of the water.

SPEAKER_05 15:18

Wow, pretty amazing. Yes, well, we are very far humans already, no?

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Yes, yeah, let's see where it develops. You know, this is what I want to ask you.

SPEAKER_05 15:28

Do you have any ideas what will be what is the future?

SPEAKER_00 15:33

You know, the industry is uh considered to be a very uh non-conformative, it's a very slow-moving industry. However, in the last few years we see dramatic changes in controlling in uh water quality, and I assume robots as well will have in the future ability to clean itself and things like that. But you know, we will not reveal too much now to the competition. But we are working on uh independent robots that will be totally independent, and you will only need to take it out here and there to see that the robot is functioning well.

SPEAKER_05 16:16

The poor, the poor, poor boy, yes, nothing to do.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

No, we love them as well. No, no, they are doing a marvelous job.

SPEAKER_04 16:24

Okay, well, thank you. Thank you very much and uh for your time. We know that you're very busy at this show, and you have a good place, have a good week, uh the rest of the week, and uh thanks again. Yes, thank you. Bye bye.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Hi, Antilla.

SPEAKER_05 16:41

In front of me actually sits Dominic Raf, the owner and CEO of Dryden Aqua. And we talk about water treatment today, and I have to say I always love and I know we talked about it before, but I have to mention that I always loved the story about the dolphins. Maybe we can start a bit from the beginning and then we really talk about water treatment, and also what is really entering at the time now is water saving.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Okay, perfect. Yeah, uh the dolphin story. Well, this is uh the base where AFM started, you know. My friend and partner, Dr. Howard Dryden, he made it uh this uh famous uh filter media AFM, activated filter media, which is done out of a recycling glass and a very sophisticated process, washed, cleaned, whatever, and then activated. And uh this was also the question how did he get to this? And it was about the dolphins. Um uh Dr. Howard Ryden, he's a marine biologist, and uh he did uh treatment systems for dolphinariums. And in dolphinariums, uh most often these dolphins live in chlorinated uh systems, and uh well the the lifetime of uh dolphins in chlorinated systems is um ten twenty years. It's not sure, but it's ten, twenty years, and they are dying from from lung diseases coming from trichloramine, coming from trialomes such as chloroform. And his mission was to to do these systems to minimize these uh disinfection byproducts so the dolphin gets uh f up to 40-50 years, like they do in the oceans. So this was his space, and this is where he started. So uh where uh Dryden Aqua had his roots, and later on he moved to the pool industry. Actually, by me, we met uh each other by chance, and I tried it out in my pool. I was blown away, you know, about the performance, you know, the day after uh where I had it in my my pool. The the water looked completely different. I could reduce the oxidation I used at that time with Peroxide with Pirosoft by uh 50%, and this is where I I I got into this, where I got this this riding virus. And um well I tried in my pool and then uh I went to to to Scotland and met Howard. He looked like an old Viking, you know, with long hairs, etc. Really old hippie. I I I was twenty-five years already in in the pool water treatment, um, but I learned in one day from Howard more than I learned in twenty-five years. Right. And the unique thing was this biological approach, you know, uh where he said, Dominic, we have to understand how nature works. You know we have to to to work not against nature but with nature. So what we should do, you know, instead of um uh let bacteria grow in high population and then try to solve the problem with high dose of chlorine or any other oxidants, let's prevent the gross. And that's where we need a bioresistant filter medium. And that's where we have to remove by good floc uh by good filtration, maybe improve by coagulation flocculation with our APF, all the nutrients which are in the water, because uh if there is uh no nutrients in the water, there is no gross. And if the bacteria do not have a surface to grow on it, they cannot grow. So you don't get into problem. And this this biological approach was really unique, it still is unique. He was the first uh biologist in in our industry, and yeah, this was this virus which I got on day number one when I met him, and I never I never got away from it.

SPEAKER_05 20:31

Maybe you can say something. What is then a lot of people use SAND, right, for filtration. But uh what makes AFM so different?

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Yeah, um we uh there are uh less and less people who have sand, more and more people are moving now to AFM. I mean i what what makes a difference? There are three things. Uh AFM filters a lot better than sand. It's roughly twice as good as sand. If we're talking about small particles, I mean uh good sand filters down to 20 micron, 30 micron, 50 micron. AFM comes to one micron. So it's a filtration performance. But I guess even more important is uh the bioresistance. So you don't have big bacterial uh bacteria the growth of bacteria, you don't have clumping, you don't have channeling, so the performance stays for years as good as it is the first day. You don't have all the the pathogens which are growing in biofilm. If you don't have bacteria, you don't have biofilm. Therefore you don't have all these pathogens like legionellas and pseudomonas and all this. But nowadays with the energy crisis, uh the main factor that moves in is backwash efficiency.

SPEAKER_04 21:44

Ah wow, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Yeah, you know we we're short in in in water and we're short in energy. So if the people can save up to fifty percent of their backwash water because it's easily it's more easy to backwash, you can backwash uh the media uh shorter, I mean long enough but shorter and we measure this with turbidity meter in the backwash line that makes a huge difference in in residential pools and even more important in commercial pools because yeah cubic meters of water is what today in in Germany I I would say it's roughly two, three, five euros and to heat it up, you know when we had energy prices which were I don't know five cents per kilowatt that was an easy one but now we are talking about twenty five two fifty so that's that becomes at the moment it's the main main issue backwash efficiency. Yes and if you then put in uh electricity into account as well pumps will be running shorter right uh not shorter that I think that's a little bit another story but uh uh yeah I'm fully uh uh for that we we filter 24 hours that we use frequency inverters variable speed pumps I'm I'm I'm 200% and it controlled this also with a flow meter yeah that makes a huge difference and we also need you know we we we want to profit but it's low filtration velocity but with the variable speed pump we also will have the benefit to backwash the filters fast enough.

SPEAKER_04 23:14

That's what I mean yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

And um also we tested not just AFM, I mean uh any other media and for all the media people always think the l the slower your backwashing the less better you consume. Yeah. It's not true. Okay. It's completely the opposite you know if you have a high backwash velocity you have a much more efficient backwash then you can make it a lot shorter. To give you an example if you backwash a filter at thirty meters per hour you need six minutes. Yes if you backwash it with sixty meters per hour you can do it in two minutes. Not in three but in two. Right and this is the the savings and this is not just for AFM this is for any other media. It's just AFM is at least by a factor of uh one point five to two the most efficient in backwash efficiency.

SPEAKER_04 24:04

Well it's quite interesting and it's it's it's fascinating and the the fact that it started with with with dolphins, with animals and then it moved into pools and and now from it started private pools and moved to public pools as I understand. It's quite fascinating and uh like you said in this time of you know uh the the the the crisis is in energy, the water pollution everything on top of that is it's it's fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

So I mean quite logic I would say go to AFM uh that's uh for me the number one no but for for a pool owner I think the first thing you should do you should go for a minor P C pump 24 hour filtration use a flow meter uh run it uh at a low velocity for a majority of of the day if you're not using the pool uh have enough of power to backwash the filter properly fast and short um I think that's that's uh the key one and then the next step is uh go for smart systems and we just launch now in the Dryden family a new product called Space uh which is a AI artificial intelligence based uh pool management system which will really um improve all these processes automatically with artificial intelligence where you will get another big savings in water and with that in energy and make just your pool um yeah just fun.

SPEAKER_05 25:37

And with AI you mean it's self-learning it will adjust it uh according to the circumstances we don't have AI so far in the pool industry right um and it will make the system better and better and I and I know this is one feature I especially like it's like uh you know when it's raining you can see the forecast no and then you can already decide okay well then it's the time to make the back water.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

No you are not deciding it's it's the AI who will do this decision for you. Yeah right yeah that that's uh depending of course on the season that might be quite a massive saming. But it's also uh you know you don't have to calibrate any more the probes during the season it will uh help you to detect if you have uh a leakage in your system it will it tries to analyze the problem before you have the problem and will let you know and that's um that's quite fascinating. AI I'm always a little bit on on two sides. On the one side I think well that's a little bit this big brother thing you know 1984. On the other AI really can make your life a lot easier.

SPEAKER_04 26:53

You see this with Tesla it's a little bit the Tesla of uh of uh pool control so yeah we are very much looking forward it will come to the market from January on and uh we believe it will be it will be the next step and that will be available both for public and for uh private pools or will is it Yep it will be for both we will start and focus on the the private pools it will be for both Okay well great thank you very much for your time uh very exciting news to look forward to and uh yes thanks a lot.

SPEAKER_05 27:30

My pleasure thanks for having me here yes hello good morning here we are again and we sit in front of Jiri from Niveko and we yeah we are it's the last day of the fair and uh we came to your booth. First of all what I noticed what that you have even a real grass on your booth which you told me you have to water every day but not we are not here for the grass no you are a famous producer of pools and yeah we would like to know more about it what kinds of pools you have and uh yeah what is good to know for the end customer.

SPEAKER_02 28:04

Yeah good morning everybody from Lyon France yes Niveco is a custom built mono pools producer and we do our job for more than 30 years and our company is well known in the whole Europe because we provide our clients with a full range of products first of all we have uh skimmer and also overflow solutions uh in the overflow segment we are quite unique because we have because we have five different models and we can customize our product and that's our our uh strength yes and on the market I would say and in this we are unique right right and uh so now looking back at the fair this week uh what is your feeling uh uh regarding the future regarding 2023 uh my feeling is positive I would say uh we met a lot of people here our existing clients uh new new uh companies and and new people who could who could maybe uh become our partners and the feeling in the branch uh in in the industry is not so bad because everyone knows that uh after two years of COVID time which boosted up uh the whole industry it will calm down and it's good for industry and it's good for all of us but we still believe that we can take the time to improve everything in the company to be ready for the next season and to provide our clients with high standards.

SPEAKER_05 29:57

So Giri so you just mentioned you customize your pools right so the customer can really say ah I want to have this kind of shape this size and you will do it is that right?

SPEAKER_02 30:10

Yes exactly that's how we work so the client will come to us or to our partner with his specific wish and we fulfill this wish if it's technically possible of course okay uh how many pools you do? Any year we produce about thousand pools that's our recent capacity we have. Okay do you have any plans for the future like different I don't know some super special super different or if even different colours development we have a lot of news for next season but at the moment I cannot tell you more details because we are preparing a partner evening uh for December for all of our partners from all of Europe and we will we will provide them with this news at this time so at this moment I can't tell you more details about it.

SPEAKER_05 31:11

And the the end customer as you said you you customize um they already get the equipment with it or how does it work?

SPEAKER_02 31:21

The end client gets always the full package it means the pool is full equipped with all installations which is necessary to have it in the pool. It means lights and and inlets and countercurrents and whatever and that's our strength that we provide our clients with full installations which comes from the factory. So we don't need to install them on site or our partner doesn't need to do it on site. So that's very practical for them no of course of course yeah it ensures a quick installation and do you um looking back see uh what are your what do you consider the highlights of this exhibition not specifically in NifECO but in general have you seen something really special I consider this trade fair as the best in in Europe because it's very large very big and uh it's very professional you can see how many visitors here are and what's the quality of of of uh exhibitors yeah so from this point of view I have a very good feeling about it.

SPEAKER_04 32:41

And I and I would say I would say it's not the biggest in Europe it's the biggest in the world.

SPEAKER_05 32:47

Yes for sure it is by far I um and I've seen this also again this time it's by far the best compared to others if you only have to pick one exhibition I would pick this one yes for sure especially if you come from far now and you really have to make a plan or something no yes yes um well yes I would say thank you very much for your time and uh with pleasure thank you we will um meet again somewhere and Angela you had another question no I just say no question it's just thank you it was very interesting I think for the end customer and I just want to say thank you Michael we had such a great time here at the fair no and as you have mentioned as Giri also has mentioned it is an amazing fair no we you meet from people from all over the world yes it was crowded we had super good customers and we can only say to to swimming pool builders or wholesalers come to Lyon I mean we don't work here but I really have to say so because it was really successful and it's a lot of fun as well you meet people in industry which you haven't seen for a long time and yeah yes and uh from my side of course Angela thank you also it was uh it was really uh uh really nice to work with you and we will be back with other podcasts in the future and uh yes thanks a lot and uh you have a safe uh trip home tomorrow as Yuri thank you very much for the invitation and okay thank you very much thank you bye bye bye you can write us with any comments or questions at mail at swimmingpool minus podcast dot com and just a little um looking forward in the future about our next episode we'll be in France again in the capital and we're gonna talk to a very very big player of the industry which we are very looking forward to yes and well it was so great it was such an exciting exhibition um looking forward in two years to come again to Lyon and yeah I'm just saying thank you gracias merci spasiva bye bye this episode of the swimming pool international podcast is also supported by our media partner Eurospa Pool News the international media of pool and spa industry thank you very much for this support