A Man Isn't A Plan
A man can be a part of your plan, just don’t make him all of it. Velveteen rabbit style real and raw conversations about being a woman on dharma and on purpose.
Hannah Haller lives on her four-acre off-grid homestead in Hawai'i she bought in cash and built from raw land. Between teaching live-streaming yoga classes, leading retreats, writing a bestselling Substack, and actively building a regenerative farm, she shares with her pup, Pete. Over the past 15 years, Hannah has turned an unconventional life into a multi six-figure business and cult-like following – without ever chasing one.
Janne Robinson wrote her viral poem This Is for the Women Who Don’t Give a Fuck in 2014 a piece that reached millions and became an anthem for women putting themselves on the menu. She is the author of two poetry books This Is for the Women Who Don’t Give a Fuck and There’s Cobwebs on Her Vagina and, as a coach, has helped thousands of people create a life of authentic belonging. Janne has led over 200 purpose sessions and has helped more than 120 women start companies from their gifts. Her work is rooted in one core belief — belonging from anything other than who you are isn’t worth it.
Authors:
Hannah Haller
Janne Robinson
A Man Isn't A Plan
2. Shame Can’t Live in the Light – Abortion & Miscarriage
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We share our experiences inside of abortion, pregnancy loss, and how sharing the “bottom of the ocean” moments can reduce shame and help other women feel less alone. We also talk about boundaries, performative vulnerability, and what feminism and patriarchy is and isn’t.
*Trigger Warning: mentions about abortion and pregnancy loss
In this episode, we discuss about:
- Janne getting pregnant during a major life restart and her choice to have an abortion.
- Writing and sharing the article on her emotional process that led to her choice to have an abortion and the backlash (being called a murderer by her first boyfriend and man she slept with who was Christian) as well as the 400+ comments and messages from women confiding in her for the first time about their abortions.
- Hannah’s pregnancy loss and the shock of a life path changing overnight.
- Our capacity to feel joy as a deeper emotional spectrum after experiencing deep loss.
- Why it can feel safer to be vulnerable with strangers than close friends.
- Telling your truth without exposing someone else’s truth.
- Discussing what patriarchy means and doesn’t mean. Being against a system built by men, not anti-men and the importance of feminism past and present tense for women to have equality and choice.
Visit the website: https://www.amanisntaplan.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amanisntaplan/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/Amanisntaplan/61587882744032/
Music by Kontraa Music from Pixabay
Welcome And Trigger Warning
SPEAKER_03Welcome to A Man Isn't a Plan podcast. We're your hosts, Jana Robinson and Hannah Haller, here to remind you, a man can be a part of your plan, but don't make him all of it.
SPEAKER_00This show is for the women building lives in Dharma, purpose, and deep self-trust. Women who could absolutely fall in love but will not fall off their path. Here we are the author of our own stories. So I think before we begin today's episode, I think we want to dive into stuff that's gonna be a little bit deeper and a little bit heavier. Um I would like to preface with a trigger warning. So we're gonna be going into deeper, darker topics that include things like miscarriage, pregnancy loss, abortion, abortion. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03So I just want to start with that and and the importance of talking about these things because they're so part of the landscape of what it is to be human. And be a woman. And be a woman, yeah. And uh and we've shared that in different ways. Um I I think that something that Hannah and I have connected on and shared is that we tell the truth. And telling the truth about certain things is easier than telling the truth about other things that there is controversy on, or um yeah, I mean, with abortion, there's a lot of controversial opinions on that. That's harder. Um and in my own journey, um telling the truth 13 years ago uh really uh changed my whole life. Like I had to tell the truth that I needed to quit my jobs and start over. And I I really felt like it was a healing for me to be really, really honest with myself and walk away from many elements of my life that no longer worked. And then later on, I discovered telling the truth as a writer, because I didn't always tell the truth as a writer. I wrote fluffy, sweet, safe, abstract things for a while that didn't really bear my heart and soul. And then um I got pregnant.
Choosing Abortion During A Life Reset
SPEAKER_03And I actually want to share that I got pregnant right as I was starting my life over, right as I was had the dream internship with the Gemini nominated best-selling author that I was going to work with in Roberts Creek on the Sunshine Coast. And I was finally seizing the day of my dreams. And as I was in my car with everything packed up, realized I was pregnant. And it's it's almost like the hero's journey of right when we're about to embark, sometimes um something happens. And this was a big part of my journey, and I decided to have an abortion, and I spent a lot of time in that choice for myself. I I had a lot of beliefs. One of them was I didn't think that I could be a mother and go do the thing. Like I didn't think that I could go be a writer and really, and then I had to sit with it. That wasn't true. There's many incredible women who are both mothers and have a business. So I sat with that and realized it wasn't true and moved through it. Um the man I was with had another child who he had not showed up for. It was a very new relationship, and he was actually in the process of moving back to show up for his first kid when I realized I was pregnant. So, timing-wise, both our relationship and with his timing, um it it just wasn't good good for either of us. It was also just a new, a really new relationship. And I ended up having an abortion and I had it in it was December, and I had just moved into this tiny cabin in the middle of the woods where I knew nobody, and it was in a rainforest, so it rained pretty much all day and all night. And I wasn't expecting to write about it, but the day after, when I was in bed, being a writer, it's very cathartic to share and write about our experiences. And so I wasn't planning on writing about it, but then I started to write about it. And this piece of writing flowed out of me that um I remember being really surprised with how raw it was and really um shocked, like going, like, I don't know what I'm gonna do with that. I shared my entire emotional process of abortion. And from the very first moment where I went, woo-hoo, did my boobs just come in? Cause like my boobs have never come in. My mom has big boobs. I was like, are those ever gonna happen for me? Um, to being like, oh no, that's not what this is. Um and then I shared the process of people around me, you know, the friends and family members who were neutral or who were not neutral, who projected the they wanted a baby, so you should have a baby. Or um, and the people in my life who stayed beautifully neutral. My mom stayed beautifully neutral. Uh, she really did an incredible job at that. And I also shared about the moments where I went to go see a doctor to figure out what are my choices at this moment in my pregnancy and how the doctor said to me, don't get an abortion, you'll regret it. And how I looked at him and said, How dare you? If I was a 14-year-old who had not yet found the spine of who I was, that that could have affected my choice that belongs to me, that is inappropriate and that is unprofessional and that is not okay. And I want to say that this has happened to many women in my life, and it is completely inappropriate that anybody speaks for a woman's body who is a doctor in that moment of process. And I wrote about that. I wrote about um I there's a lot of conversation around when does a soul enter a body? And I had a shamanic teacher who um I had a process around that of like, what if the soul has arrived? And so we did a, I really don't want to call it ceremony. The word ceremony has been ruined in the world, but we had a we did something uh where I was the day before I went in for the appointment, I stood in front of my wood stove. And there's, yeah, it's like, when does a soul enter the body? I personally believe that souls go shopping for parents and they look down and they go, like, oh, that looks kind of messy, but also kind of fun, or ooh, like trust fund in this life, like that looks more secure. And they kind of choose the experience and the parents that they're gonna have in each life. And so I sat down and said, Hey, little soul, I don't know if you're in there. If you are and you've chosen me, thank you for choosing me to be your mother. And this is not the time. And if you feel that this is the moment that you would like to be born in and that you would like to live your life in, and if you want to go find a different mom right now, that's okay. And if you want to come back when I am ready to be a mother and do life with me, I would love to do life with you then. But this is not the moment. And I shared and wrote about how my boyfriend at the time completely didn't show up. And this is one thing that I've learned the hard way is sometimes I've met men when this particular partner said, My mountain is not standing when I first met him. And I was like, I'm strong. I'll put your mountain on my back. I'll carry both of our mountains over rivers and valleys. I've got us. You don't need to be strong, I'm strong. But then when it came time to have the abortion, I remember calling him saying, I need you to be there. And I know that you've struggling with money and there's all these things going on, but I need you to show up. And he didn't show up. And later he shared that he had found somebody who was willing to buy one of his guitars, but he wasn't willing to sell it. Not only that, he changed his phone number the day of the appointment without thinking or being aware that maybe I would want to talk. Like there was no awareness around that being a not a great time. And so I had all of these moments, you know, boyfriends were allowed in the back of the procedure room, but not moms. And I went with my mom. So I got I had to be, I was alone. And they actually shared because I did a long distance relationship. I knew the moment I had gotten pregnant because we had been had sex, and he actually, while we were having sex on the day because it was long distance, said, like, God, I want to have a baby with you. And I remember as I was going under, because she told me the day, and I was like, whoo. And I was like, I remember saying to him, careful, because the universe has big ears. And I just wrote this whole piece just poured out of me. And it was so raw. And I really wanted to be sure it scared me. And I I it was the first time I told the truth as a writer. I also wanted to be really, really clear on why I was sharing the story because I didn't want to share it for attention. I didn't want to share it to slam him for not showing up. Um, and so I went, I'm just gonna sit on that for a while. And so I I took it and I sat on it for a bunch of months. And then one day I started to feel into how helpful it would have been to have read something like that for myself when I was in, like someone gave me Khalil Gibrion the Prophet, which was beautiful, but like, yeah, I was like, it would have been helpful to hear. And also, people really close to me had had abortions and not talked about it. And I was like, there's so much shame here. And I want this abortion isn't something that needs to be swept under a rug. And I want to talk about it. So I I decided I was going to share it. And
Publishing The Story And Taking Heat
SPEAKER_03at first, I went, I'm only gonna share this with the 30 million readers on Elephant Journal because I don't want to share it with my friends and family or the people I went to high school on Facebook and Instagram. Like, I'll just share it with the strangers because they're not who I'm gonna run into at a coffee shop on 104th Street in Edmonton while I'm stirring cream into an Americano and go, like, hey, I read your article. And I was like, I don't want that type of vulnerability. I'll just be vulnerable with those 30 million readers. Small amount. Yeah. And but for those of you that know, it is much more safe to be vulnerable with strangers sometimes than those that are close. It's an edge. 100%. And so I at first was like, I'm just gonna share it there. And then I remember I was sitting in my kitchen and um I can still see it. There was a I had a woodshed outside and the it was raining and it was that had prayer flags and it was dripping off of the prayer flags in my woodshed. And it, I got this ding of an email being like, Congratulations, your article has been published. And I remember feeling in my body that I was so at peace with my choice that nothing could alter the light within me. And that no one anyone could say to me would affect how I felt about that choice. And to this day, 12, 10, 12 years later, that is still true. And so I decided to share it with everyone. And I got everything from woman of the year to murderer by the first man I slept with, my first boyfriend who was deeply religious. I also had 400 comments, messages, and emails from women. And one of them, which I will never forget, said I was 15. My dad dropped me off at the clinic. He told me not to tell anyone, not even my mother, that you're I'm 40 and you're the first person that I'm telling. And in that moment, I went, okay. So telling the truth in the moments, not the hero moments, but in the moments that it is where there can be shame or there there can be, you know, you mentioned them there. I actually had somebody really beautifully once tell me it's not heavy, it's just a deep, it's a deep moment, which was a reframe for me of like that. That depth, like there's like there are these deep bottom of the ocean moments that we have as human beings that we feel so alone in because we don't talk about. And when I witnessed what it did for other women around me and people in my life to tell the truth as a writer, I made a commitment. So, for also one of my personal intentions with this podcast is I have committed my entire life to telling the truth through my own personal experience and story. And at times that has been misunderstood, and we'll talk about that in different episodes. Um, my intention with, and it by the way, it never gets less vulnerable and it never necessarily gets less hard. It's always gonna feel a little like there's a little bit of a wobble around it always. But I want to live in a world where our insides are outside, and the spectrum of human experience is welcome and belongs. And I have made that commitment and continue to keep that commitment since that moment as part of my own personal purpose and dharma. And that is something that we share, and that that's what drew me to you. I think I found you about 10 years ago, and I went, wow, this woman is also telling the truth. And not only have you told the truth, but you've continued to tell the truth. And when we get together, we tell the truth. Um, and uh, and that's something that we I feel like we've shared. Um, so in your in your work and in both, I know that you're you know, not just a writer, also yoga and all kinds of different pieces. Um has there been something that you have told the truth about the bottom of the ocean moment that you told the truth in and uh saw it create lightness in others because of the courage to be brave.
SPEAKER_00I love the way you said that
Miscarriage And The Isolation Of Grief
SPEAKER_00question. Yeah. I mean, first of all, I just totally want to honor you and your story. Oh, yeah. It's um, yeah, it's I I I think naturally and organically I began sharing pieces of my heart similar to you very early on. And it felt like you mentioned, um, it's easier to be vulnerable with strangers than it is with people in your own circle. And I think I felt that ease, but I also I was doing it when I was living abroad on Facebook, and it was only kind of close mutual friends. And then it like eventually turned into Instagram and it got a wider audience, but it was still small. It still felt like I was a peep in a dark room. It didn't feel like I was putting it out there for the masses, you know? And like obviously it turned into that for me very quickly. And I realized, like, oh my gosh, now I'm telling my deepest and darkest to like what felt like the whole world, you know, which feels like just such an interesting experience to go from kind of like the intimacy of your immediate friends and family in a smaller space to like catapulted into what now is like someone handing you the microphone and being like, okay, now tell your story. And you're just like, whoa. Like everybody seems to be like listening and watching. So I think that I think that over time, like it all unfolded very organically for me to be telling my truths and my stories. But I think that the resonance with people saying, like, oh my God, I feel this way too. Or like, wow, I I I totally have felt that like the outpouring of love and um just like connection that people were having with me was the reason behind my why. Like, still today in my stories when people write me like heartfelt messages and things like that. Like, I'm like, oh my God, like think fuck. That's why I'm here. I'm literally here so that people feel like they're not alone because we're all on our phones all the time. Like we're out to dinner with our best friend, but we're like, you know, it's it's it's too alluring. The algorithms and the apps and all of the stimulation that we can get from this little handheld computer is far more addictive than the connection component that we can have me and you out to lunch, sadly. But like the acknowledgement of that being true has to be, can't be overstated. It's like, so we can't really blame us, but also it's created such a deep isolation within that if the only place that I can create resonance is in an online space, then I will do that because that's where we all are. And so to continue like trudging on in that path, because like you also stated, there's so much oversapuration. And you're like, wait, what am I contributing to here in the world? Like, is my work valid, relevant, and for the right reasons from the heart space? Like, am I really wanting to continue putting out this work? And so I think that for me, that piece has been the biggest and most unending piece of my work that I'm always like, oh yes, this brings me right back to homeostasis. This is exactly what I, where I want to be and what I want to be doing, as long as people feel what I'm putting out and feel like that is creating like, oh my gosh, like, you know, like this is such big work. I'm so glad you wrote this. I'm so happy. Like it makes me feel like, okay, great. I can, I can go on and do this. So I think over the terms of my career, because you and I, again, like you said, have been doing this for so long that there's been like a lot of different components. I definitely um have a lot of topics that are pretty serious topics that needed trigger warnings. So I think there's definitely many I could point to, but obviously, like what comes up is most recently going through my miscarriage. And um on the back side and with such proximity to the separation and other arenas of my life that were kind of all included, it was just a really, really tough 2024 piece for me, I would say. Like it felt like um kind of the crumbling of everything that I had been hoping and wishing and pushing for that I thought I was like being called into. And I think the experience of being able to make the choice and having the choice taken away from you is an experience that I can't really like put words to. I didn't understand it. It's kind of like um tragic car accidents and things like that. And people kind of like have this place where they're like, why? Like, why would this happen to me or my mom or my dad or my uncle or my cousin? Like, why? Like, why would the universe do that? And I think that there is many lessons within all of it, but the grief component is not logical. It's not analytical, it's not something that says, oh, well, you know, there's lessons and all of that. So when I continue to see the friends that I was pregnant with at the same time on Island with their partners at the birthday parties, like I have to continue doing the work to put myself in those spaces because I still want to be able to be friends with people and support them and be auntie and be, you know, a place in their life and a supportive figure. And also like I have to go home and cry after those events because I can't help but to think like that was that was nearly the path that I walked. Like that was so close to being my experience and um having it just like completely turned upside down that there's been so many times where I just have sat in shock over the reality of it. I'm like, how could my life have gone from this to this in seemingly such a short amount of time? Um, I think, you know, as a deeply spiritual woman and someone who's had a practice for 20 years, it's been my work to really um understand the dharma in it all and really be able to grasp to something that I needed to grasp to in those moments because um life felt more fragile than I think I've probably ever experienced it in those moments. And um it has turned me towards that and and allowed me to go deeper into that practice, which I am grateful for. And also, as we sit here, I'm still like very much on the verge of like completely. Breakdown and tears and goosebumps over it all because you can feel a certain way about an experience and know that it all happened for a reason and completely trust the universe and do that spiritual work to be like, this is my path. I trust you and also feel completely broken about it. Like we can have all the knowledge in the world to be like, yes, I love my life. I feel completely fulfilled. I'm so grateful to have a career and a dog and a place to live. And also the devastation and the heartbreak that I experienced last year and the magnitude of such may continue to bring me to my knees. You know, like the the experiences are just not mutually exclusive.
SPEAKER_03I remember reading I remember reading your writing when you started to share about it as well, and just like going like I I remember feeling like the equalizing to the bottom of the ocean with you and just feeling feeling that peace as as well. And it's like it was really courageous. And that that's something that yeah, I don't know how many times people tell you that, but just being able to share.
SPEAKER_00I had so many women that reached out to me then, continue to reach out to me now, continue to have the same experiences where they were pregnant with their sisters or their friends, and their friends obviously went full term and have babies now. And like that component for me, I feel very called to speak to as much as I can without um you know, without living in grief, because I also think that it's so important for you to move into a space of like focusing on you and your life and what you do have enjoy. And at the end of the day, like what happened to me is tragic and it's not comparable on a scale, but I also still get to leave live. I still get to wake up and breathe. And so, like focusing on an area of optimism is something I like aim and want to do as a way of working through what I've been through, also and say, like, okay, like really hard shit happened. And also my life is still great and I still have so much opportunity and things I can do and such a cool existence. And like I want to continue putting eggs in that basket and feeling into that. Um, so yeah, I just think that um it's been something that I honestly don't think I ever intended to share really either. It wasn't something that I was consciously like, I'm gonna share this at 9 a.m. You know, I don't think you and I, neither of us are like that. It's like we have work that we do in the world, and then something happens and we're like, oh, all of that is gonna be pushed to the wayside because right now this huge thing just happened and I cannot help the outpour of emotion that is coming out of me that I need to reach out and see is anybody else like with me in this? Like, am I the only one that's going through this? And in a wave, we'll have that come back for us as well. And I think that's like such a reward in the work that we do because we can also never stand alone. We will always have our sisters that are like, oh, not only like thank you, thank you, thank you, but also I'm going through that right now because we're speaking to people all over the world. And those things are happening to everybody all the time. And they're so relevant and they're so important, and they can be completely detrimental to our mental health. And in isolation, I think the fragility can't be overstated.
SPEAKER_03Right. Yeah, and I've had I've had so many women come up to me at like book launch events and just say, Hey, uh, I had an abortion and I read your article and I did the shamanic piece with talking, and like it was it was really helpful and really important for me in my process. And and the the other thing is uh I've shared this with you. I was in Sedona once and a woman came up to me and she said, you know, in our in my language, Yana, your name means you are not alone. And I feel I've also somebody else tell me that my name it means uh a way for people to experience themselves as nirvana. I was like, this name.
SPEAKER_02Name this name.
SPEAKER_03Uh my poet loves, yeah. The poet loves the name. Um, looks like Jane with two ends, much more interesting. Um, but I think that one thing as you're talking to is that life, I don't know if you feel this, but after moments of grief in my life, I remember the first time I laughed and felt joy. It was almost if we are only able to feel joy to the depth in which we feel our grief. Like I remember grieving really hard when I, and we'll share more about this maybe in a different episode, where I had somebody that I lost to suicide and I moved through some deep grief. And I remember the first time I felt myself laugh. It almost felt like my belly and my everything had gotten deeper because I had had gone to the bottom of the ocean. And we forget that life is fucking duality, you know, like it's not, and I think we're really afraid sometimes to go into the depth and have the conversations. Like I remember editing a book, like I said, and being like, are there too many heavy poems in here? And the editor being like, No, Yana, they're just they're deep. And and life is this spectrum of grief and transition and change and and also the ability to hold our depth, and I think be honest in our depth and to feel some of those is what creates more space for joy and more capacity for for joy.
SPEAKER_00Someone wrote it. I definitely have a post on my feed about that. It expands our well for joy.
SPEAKER_03Nice. I haven't seen that. We all share one big brain, so there's so many different iterations. But yeah, it's been a it's so true though. And I think it's it's yeah, there's a and um it takes courage, and it also doesn't take courage because I I think when you're talking about the isolation piece, that is a a really big part of I I often say we we live in an economy, and a byproduct of an economy is that you have individualism, and every individual has a house and a car, but then we're alone in our houses with our cars with three kids, and if you're lucky, maybe a nanny, and you're exhausted and tired. And meanwhile, we used to raise our children together, we used to take care of our elders together, we did things in community, we shared stories. Children were raised by the nervous system and the voices and the stories of a village. And I really feel that in a time too where people are so connected virtually, they're so alone. And um, and so it's it's interesting. I think sharing those personal stories and truth if and when you feel ready. So
Boundaries Timing And Nonperformative Sharing
SPEAKER_03please note that I think something I personally have definitely over-shared and shared things too soon. There's been a maturation in being a nonfiction writer, using my story with when I keep parts of it to myself to really be at peace with that process, to then have it be a learning. And here's the thing timing doesn't matter. It may feel like it's on your instant gratification, like, I want to share it, I want to share it. But whether Hannah shared that story now or four years from now, there would still be the same response because that will always stories about our human experience will always be relevant and land and teach and help people, but you don't have to share them as they're happening. Totally. And that's something that I think we've both also learned. I was gonna say, learned. Yeah. Even this week I was sharing something and I was like, is this what do you think of, you know, and and more. I'm not. We were listening to the Sarah Jessica Parker on the caller daddy, and she has such a maturation and a grace from being a public figure for so long. I don't feel like I'm there yet. I still am a cowboy and I share things off the cuff and I shoot from the hip sometimes too fast and shoot myself in the foot sometimes. Um, but I'm I'm more like I'm I feel really willing and ready to be in the line of fire in the world as an experience that people learn from. And I'm not, I am messy sometimes. Yeah. There's a color and a mess to it, but it's also I've never been a perfect, complete work as a teacher. When I get into rooms, I'm like, I am not a finished product. Like you read the poems in my books about all of the unavailable men that I date, and I'm very much still doing my work to heal and work on myself as a woman. Um, and it takes a a different type of audacity to learn and grow and evolve also in the eyes of people and to share. Um, and there there is a maturation that happens with time. Like there is a I've I've learned to keep some things private that in the beginning I did. You ever have a moment? I had a moment once where I I was like, I am my Instagram. Like 12 years ago, I really felt like I was my then. I was like, no, that is a platform that I share parts of who I am with the world selectively. Um, and I had to have an uh individuation from because when we're a brand and we are the brand, there can be this, but it we're not Instagram. We're not.
SPEAKER_00I was just talking about this with Anna this morning in the shop because I was like, gosh, sometimes I do wish I was like I had like a product that was different than me. Like, you know, as a yoga teacher, I'm filming my body, myself, my me, me, me, me, me, me all the time. And I always say, like, man, I'm I'm pretty sick of seeing me.
SPEAKER_01I'm pretty tired of watching myself like do yoga. I'm like, do people still find this cool or fascinating? Like, is hello, is this thing on?
SPEAKER_00You know, like it's so nice to be able to have that separation. And also, I think there's still merit in the arena of us blundering through things and and showing that messy process. Cause I can tell you, as a viewer, I am not impressed by the neatly tied package, the picture perfect life. Like the humility and the humanity is not there for me to connect. And that's probably just because I've also never been that perfectly tied bow. But people miss the journey when they see that. And I think that's always something I like to think about in my life too, is like, what am I showing? And are people just looking at my life like, oh man, I want to have a farm on Maui? And like, or do they see me out there covered head to toe in grass clippings trying to maintain four raw acres of jungle alone? Like, I don't want to just show the farm because it tricks people into believing that there is or was no work to get there. And I think the work to get there is it's it's everything. Like it's not about, you know, it was never about the goal. It was about the learning journey to get to the goal. And by the time you've reached the goal, you've probably forgotten that goal and made 10 other goals, and you're already well on your way to try to achieve those. And it's like the achievement is so much less important to me, like the certificate, the training, the university degree, the I never cared about that. I'm like, I'm not doing it for that. I'm here to learn. That's something you can never take away from me. And it's something that I don't need to show proof of outside of the body of work in which I convey it.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think too, um, there's telling the truth in a performative way, which now I was like, you know, 10 years ago, we needed some bitches being vulnerable on the internet. I'm gonna tell I'm gonna tell you we walked in there and we we were vulnerable. And now and now I'm like, I know. I feel like everyone's like, there's almost a performative element. I call it like a prostitution of our vulnerability or our story sometimes. It almost feels like we're that's a strong, but you know, and there's like a performative aspect of so I think there's and it's all judgment too, you know?
SPEAKER_00It's like we can't we can't necessarily judge because like I don't know someone else's story. Like, are they being performative? Who knows? Like, let them.
SPEAKER_03And I can speak and I can speak to my own story that or I guess, and and sometimes I guess what I want to say to anyone who's listening is there is a real beauty in telling the truth. There is also a a beauty in today's day and age with learning what you are going to tell the truth about with intention, i.e., in starting this podcast. There's a lot of noise in the world. And and what the reason we in our first episode went so deeply into the why and the origin is being really intentional with that. I think lately, more so now, I'm not just throwing content up to throw content up. I'm like, people need to be more present, they need to be more in their physical bodies and paying attention to not their phone. And so if I put something out there, um, I think that it's important stories used to be sacred ways of sharing knowledge and wisdom. And I feel like this, this the culture has turned into this entertainment space which distracts people from themselves rather than connecting them in. I understand. And um, and I really like Deanne Wayland, like the certain filmmakers and artists in the world, when they create a body of work, her 500 Days in the Wild, her piece of that was a movie that the entire time I connected inwards to me. And that's one of the things that with my own mentors and people in my life, I'm also like, okay, how do I create conversations or pieces that pulls people in? Not disconnects and distracts them from who they are, but that they're listening to this conversation right now, feeling a sensation or a part of their heart, or shedding a tear, or feeling something in their body and connecting inward to who they are through the power of story. Um, I have shared my personal story of abortion about 50 times on podcasts. And I talk about it because of especially where we are in today's day and age and women's rights being pulled backwards. Um, it feels important to share. Uh, but at the same time, there is an intention with that sharing. And so if you're also listening to this, it's safe and okay to be selective with the truth that you share and when you share that truth. And in the world where it is fairly performative, think about the sacredness of your story and the parts that you want to share and really treating them as sacred, not as just fast 15-second content.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I would say also like a lot of the deeper, deeper things can be you're creating what you're creating karmically in the world. So if you're putting out a lot of pain or trauma, like know that that reverberation between you and even witnessing it in the comments section may draw more of what you're putting out back to you too. So I think there's like an energy system that like to be mindful of because especially if the incident is super fresh, um, you have to be ready for what you're co-creating with the world and putting it out there. The world, I mean, it's the wild, wild west out there, putting it in front of as many eyes as may see it. You know, you never know with the algorithms how much attention something's gonna get and the magnitude or the direction of which, like you were talking about with the abortion, abortion is obviously a super triggering topic for people. And I did an abortion post too in probably 2018 or so, and received the same, like everything from like, thank you for talking about this to like you should not, you don't deserve space on the planet, you know? And like that for someone especially, you know, in their 20s is like not a mentally safe space to reside after something that is tragic, regardless. And I think the decisions and choices that we women have to make in a lot of adult circumstances when we may not even fully be adults, are um there's no right answers and there's nothing that we won't live with for life. Like we will always remember dates and times and different instances and how many times it happened and what happened. Like they occurred in our body and we will always know and remember them. And so there's just a yeah, a very, a very intricate level of experience there that I think like we need to be super cautious and mindful and protective around.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Someone there's a someone I think my friend Mark said boundaries are har how we guard our wholeness. And it's also okay to have boundaries and protect the parts of your story that you need to. And um yeah. And I think that that being said, uh also Renee Brown says it's great to set a boundary with grace, but sometimes the first time you do it, you slam a door. And so I think we're all learning in storytelling and sharing with sometimes with grace, sometimes with slam doors, and just it's a human thing. But I I personally feel a big intention in this podcast.
Truth Telling Without Exposing Others
SPEAKER_03And I want to be very clear. When I say tell the truth, we are 50% of that story, and there is a truth when we're talking about relationships and dating that is the other 50% of the story that may be somebody else's truth. And um, and so whenever we are talking or sharing, um, yeah, always also incorporating that piece in. But I that's a big intention piece for me, is um over and over again in my life, it's just like when I I when I've been in a like a relationship and it starts to feel heavy and dense, it's like, okay, what's what's the sweaty, as Gay Hendrick says, what's a sweaty, uncomfortable conversation? He loved that. He's like, all it takes is a 10-second sweaty, uncomfortable conversation. And it is through the courage to do that, I think, with each other and with our work and our businesses or business relationships that we get to, we get to evolve and change and feel the lightness. So yeah, we're gonna make a commitment here in all of our conversations that we have to tell the truth and just continue to do that, which we have done in our individual careers.
SPEAKER_00I love that. And I think that I'm like, I don't know about you, but I'm like fully and wholeheartedly on the belief system that we all deserve to tell our unftered truths and the way in which we feel honest and true in telling them. And so, like, I would never feel inclined to hush someone else's story. I just want to also feel that freedom to tell mine, you know? I think that's like one of the bigger components is like as we navigate life as truth tellers, how do we tell our stories without including others, you know, we have to navigate those relationships throughout our lives to not expose anybody else in a way in which wouldn't seem like a way that they would want to be, you know, exposed or or viewed. So I think that's like definitely part of the work that I've been doing for the last several years and something I feel um, I feel called to. And I feel like that's how I feel about everyone else. Like I would want everyone else to be able to tell their truths as well. I think we all deserve to tell our truths and let everybody hear it. And everybody is adults and they can all decide how and what they take in and what they feel is true, you know, everybody else's perspective from there. And then they'll all put their lenses of perspective over it. They'll be like, you know, it's like a game of telephone, and then you have your truth and they have their truth and they have theirs, and it's fine. Like that's the world. Like that's the that's the difference between all of our perspectives and experiences overlaid over each other that's always going to happen. Even when we look to Instagram or specialists in any field or or books that are written. And I always like caution people against taking things like that as full truth and knowing. Cause I'm like, well, certainly we know that someone wrote the history books that Columbus sailed to the Americas in 1490. Like, someone wrote that perspective, and usually they were the conqueror. They were the, they were the winner. So we have to understand that any article, any book, any perspective that is shared is shared by someone. And that everything from there we should be able to take with a grain of salt and understand that, like, oh wow, like in my heart, in my the pit of my stomach, I feel aligned with this. I feel called to this truth. I feel like this is this is true for me. And that's something that you align with and you should take that, you know. Like, I feel like that's all of our autonomy is to say, yes, this is true for me. Like this is true. This is this is something I believe to be true.
SPEAKER_03And we never, at least for myself, I won't say we, I never. Want somebody to think that if I say a truth that it is supposed to be right for them. Like that's a big piece. And there's not, I don't think there's many universal truths. We have individual truths. You know, there's okay. I think that one universal truth is I do think everybody has shot from the wound worthy and enough the moment before they took their first breath. Like I do feel that we are all enough, and there's a really unwiring and unwounding that happens when we we don't feel enough in our lives that comes from being dropped on our heads in our childhoods. But I do think that we all have just individual truths. So, you know, my truth is I am I would be so overwhelmed with polyamory. Like I am a one dick religion. One dick religion.
SPEAKER_01I'm really glad you took that turn right now because I always feel like pre sublivity. I need, yeah. I need a little break.
SPEAKER_03Like I I but like that's my truth is like I am crying over here. I am really like I could, I could not. I think polyamory sounds so overwhelming. And I am the one that's the only religion I'm also ever part of, one dick religion. Um and I, in saying that, never want someone to think that I am saying that polyamory is bad wrong or bad. It's just like, yeah, it's not for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because obviously there's lots of different ways, and I am hardly a polyamorous um expert in any way, shape, or form. I have dabbled slightly in open relationships. And um in episode one, I definitely referenced being non-monogamous, but I think the way in which non-monogamy for me would mean like non-sexual intimacy um with multiple people potentially at once, but like not necessarily pursuing, yeah. Anyway, it can look a lot of different ways, is the only like it can look so different. I think sometimes we associate with certain terms, just like we were talking about femininity or uh uh uh the patriarchy and feminism. Thank you. It's like we have these associations where like, wait a minute, to be a feminist just means we want equal rights, right?
SPEAKER_03Humans are equal. Like humans are equal.
SPEAKER_00We all have feminists like equality and women, are we all feminists? And if we're not, like, what's wrong?
SPEAKER_03What's wrong with you?
SPEAKER_00100%.
SPEAKER_01If you don't think humans are equal, we want to be superior. Well, I mean, me too. Like, let's go back to the matriarchy then.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, wait, can we have one into the matriarchy, y'all? Right. Um, so also patriarchy, just to be very clear, is a system. Yes, please. So can we say that we are talking about patriarchy? We are not anti-men. We are anti-system. We love men, unfortunately. Some men. I mean we neither of us are lesbians. We can just be my mom is though.
SPEAKER_00Well, I know. I love that for your mom. I would love that for me if it was the case, but neither of us are gay. No.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we should clarify that. Voice over. We do some of our cover photos.
SPEAKER_01We really love like we could be like we are dating. We do and a different game.
SPEAKER_00I wish I could like, I wish I could date women. I wish I could be sexually sexually attracted to women because in a lot of instances, what I see from like lesbian couples is like they're cleaner, like they both contribute a lot financially. Like it looks like a great, like there's no like differentiation in the emotional toll that either is paying towards the relationship. There's not that heteronormative difference in like typical gender roles. This is such a good segue.
SPEAKER_03This is a good
Raised By Two Moms And Safe Speech
SPEAKER_03segue because I was raised, I was raised by two women. I was raised by two women. And so it's been really interesting. Southern California is surprisingly conservative, and there's surprisingly a lot of stereotypical gender role stuff I've been navigating where I'm so surprised that it's there and where I don't relate at all because yeah, I was raised by two women. I also want to note that part of my shaping around telling the truth is when I was uh being raised by two moms, we were always told over and over again, you know, in this house it is safe to say anything. Oh, I love that. And we were, I think that that's really something I've chosen is I will choose to be in relationships where it is safe to say anything over any individual person. So if I end up in a relationship where it is not safe to express, I'm out of the relationship. I'm not changing the belief system. I'm not changing the belief system. Those are the put those, put those words on your wall, everybody. In this house, it is safe to say anything, i.e. transparency, honesty. Um and also I want to say that that honesty being um honesty is to take your truth and share it with somebody, which is a different skill set than just being honest. I think that there's layers to that that we could go into because I love values, but um, but yeah, I was really surprised. I dated um I dated somebody who said to me as somebody who was raised by two moms that he thought it was more healthy for kids to be raised by hetero like a heteronormative. And you're like, how many, how many times were you raised by two moms?
SPEAKER_00I was like, what does that mean about me?
SPEAKER_01I was in couple. So your experience and your conditioning navigates you towards heteronormative relationships. How much experience do you have with non-heteronormative relationships? Right.
SPEAKER_03It was just such a deaf and deaf piece of and actually in it was so beautiful. I love when like a I hate when therapists, couples therapists are really neutral and they're like, How do you feel? And I'm like, no, like call someone on their shit sometimes. And so I have a really good couples therapist who I love, um, who I talk a lot about. His name's Larry. And he in the session said to the person I was with, like, no, Yana should challenge you on the statement that it is more healthy. Yeah. Because that's not, you know, it's like, that's a damaging mm-m mindset or piece. Also, it's completely not reading the room of who you're in a relationship with.
SPEAKER_00It's just like you don't have any experience with that. And we've also not seen that witnessed in any TV, in any media, in any film at all. Like, we have no experience with that. How can you speak on something? It's obviously, you know, an immature statement. But I do want to ask you a question because I know we haven't talked about this yet, and I really would love to hear what you have to say.
Feminism Trad Wives And Choice
SPEAKER_00What do you think about like feminism? Like, so you know how we're talking a lot about like fourth gene, fourth generation feminism versus like trad wife, like traditional gender roles, like um, like traditional being a traditional wife. Like a lot of these, what I see is like the argument out there is between what they're calling like feminists and trad wives, like traditional wives. And they want to basically, they're saying that basically feminism like ruined us as women because now we're on birth control and we make our own money. And so, like, we they want to go back to like making just being a homemaker, having no job. They want to go back to that. And like, I mean, we're all tired, like we understand why aspects of that are attractive. Aspects of that are very attractive, totally. Yeah, but we're tired. Fluctuation between the extremes, right? Where it's like, well, you don't wait. So you want to be able to not own your house without your husband co-signing and no have no access to credit cards or land and like not be able to vote is the let me let me at this girl.
SPEAKER_03Let me give me the microphone. Please drop it. Well, the first thing I'm actually gonna say is so many people have a stereotypical judgment of feminism is like hairy armpit, yeah, man hating. And I'm like, whoa, feminism is about women being equal, which again, you you deserve on your own special island if you don't think that is true and if you think you're superior. Um, and secondly, one of the things that really shifted for me, I was raised by a feminist, but when I didn't choose to become a feminist until I was about 24. And what did it for me was um do you remember Elliot Rogers? He was uh a guy in the state who had killed a bunch of sorority women who had kept him a virgin. And they found all of this writing and tapes where he basically wanted to keep women in concentration camps to like and and I remember feeling so disturbed. I was living in my cabin at the time, and I started to dive into feminism for myself. Um, and I remember I watched this interview with Gloria Steinem and Gian Gameshi on CBC where she was so soft, she was Gloria Steinem is so uh graceful and well spoken, and I was like, oh it really uh shifted that stereotype that I had had around feminism, and I was like, I'm absolutely a feminist, and women are we do not have equal rights, and I have had clients in the Middle East who have to write under pen names because they have friends who are artists who have been murdered by their families for being a woman who makes art. So I cannot stand the women of the world who tell me that things are equal for women. I'm like, put it away, put it away, put it away, bitch. Like I've I fucking I have clients all over the world, and for me, equality is not just in my little part of the world, it is for every single woman of the in the world. And we are very far. It takes about a hundred years, if not more, for usually things to happen. And I have gotten in many arguments with men too, who are like, women are fine, women's rights are, and I'm like, no, they they are not. I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute. I'm getting triggered just thinking about all the conversations I've had where I'm like, hey, and and here's the thing is it's so tone-deaf to where we actually are when women say we don't need feminism or things are more equal, or it's tone-deaf for me to other parts of the world and and where there is an excruciating inequality and lack of power and sovereignty and ability to make choice. And um, my career actually started a lot of my stuff was around feminist writing and the titles of my books. Like, obviously, I am a huge, like I'm like, yes, women walking tall is important in balancing out what has been a very um male-dominated patriarchal society.
SPEAKER_00Like it still is in, I mean, so many research studies, like for everything across the board from um medications to supplements. If you go and research into those, like none of them were ever tested on women because hormone fluctuations. So, like when you're looking into a medication and everything, it's all based on men. It's all based on like, you know, an average size dude. Like, none of that is for us. And it's kind of like, well, wait. And that's also like what I always think of as like the solar world we live in. Like, we're always meant to be on and happy and positive and glowing. And as women, like, I mean, I don't know about you, but I like do my calendar, my monthly calendar as like um seasons. So I'll do like summer, fall, winter, and spring. And like, we have a winter for a week every month. Like that cannot be summer. Yeah. That is a time where I want to like go inside and like be internal and this existence that we live in where we're just always supposed to be on and in bikinis and at the beach is just such an unrealistic like perspective for women to have. Like it's such a it's really dogmatic, honestly.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. And and so seguing back to like the trad wife versus feminism and anyone out there who says, like, you know, feminism is ruining feminine. No, I think that part of any type of um number one, I just we're so we're not at a quality. So that conversation for me is you don't even have there's no relevancy to it. Like there, there we haven't achieved the thing that feminism is here to achieve.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So like put it away.
SPEAKER_00It's about choice. It's about choice. If you can choose to stay home, that's a different experience than being forced to stay there because you don't have job options, you can't vote, you can't have your own credit card. Like, that's what the bra burners were doing in the late 60s and 70s, is they were fighting to be able to vote for their presidential candidate. Like they weren't allowed to work a lot of times outside the home. I mean, look at the commercials from the 1950s. Like, we don't necessarily want to go back there. I think that's it's just demonstrates the black and white thinking of what is oftentimes our generation, where you're like, whoa, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Like, there is a myriad of shades of gray here in between black and white of like, let's go back to 1950, where we were, I mean, essentially exposed to a lot of domestic violence and in the household and had no way to go about it. We literally had to steal our children and run away at like, you know, dire situations. That was our only real instance, or to go back home to our parents.
SPEAKER_03Like we used to belong to men like purses. Like when people are like, I'm like, we literally didn't even use to belong to ourselves. So don't try and chalk a woman down who's still trying to belong to herself, sister. Like you're allowed to choose to live whatever lifestyle that you want. I don't think there's a superior way of living, but do not make feminism wrong because feminism is the very reason that you have a fucking choice to be a trad wife.
SPEAKER_00And I sometimes think, like on my worst day, in my worst moment, I like to think of like my mother's mother and her mother and her mother before her on both my dad's and my mom's side. And I like to think about if they could see me, what would they think? And I always picture them like I picture them like in their coffins, which I know is so silly, but like I love to visualize like funny things on really like dire moments to make myself like laugh and feel better. So like I'll picture them in their coffins, like down in the ground, and they're like, woohoo! They're like having a cocktail. And they're like, Go, honey, you're making your own money, doing your own thing, got your own land, girl, go. Like, and I love to be like, oh, thank God. Like, I can choose to leave a partner. I can choose whether I want to have one or not. I get to choose to have children or not. I get to have my own bank accounts and my own money and buy land and like those things were not awarded to every woman, even one generation ago, or to every woman around the world today. So, like, if you ever start to get bad, like feel bad about yourself or your life or where you're at, just remember to think about like your ancestors and where they were. Cause they will be like, you get Instacart. Yeah, you have Grubhub. You can order ice cream delivery, you can work online, you can work from home. I mean, our parents, our parents are like, wait, what? Like, you have so many options. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And it's okay to choose, but it's like, let women have the liberation to live whatever version of their life they want to live. Non-dogmatically. Yeah.
Women In Power And Final Callout
SPEAKER_03And also, I also hate, I hear so often times where, you know, it's like, I think it's important that women have all of the same rights and abilities. And I also am like, I need to see a fucking female president. And I'm not even attached to who that female president is, but I need women to know that just like my mom was an airplane mechanic for many years and she used to mentor, yeah, I have like airplane mechanic shaman. She would never call herself a shaman because she doesn't like white shamans who put their like, you know, Joe from LA from Venice Beach. She puts his name on a fucking business card. Let's talk about that type of shaman Joe. Do you know him? Um, so she will never call herself that. She's probably gonna be like, uh, but um she she did, she studied it for years. And, you know, being being raised with a mom who is a woman in the trades, like she was the only female AME at the Vancouver airport. And and so there are not enough women in any rooms. There are not enough women in politics, there are enough, not enough women making choices. And I do think that war is about resources and power and conquering and scarcity. And when I look at choices being made over the last couple of years, I'm like, okay, guys, like we we need to have, and I I mean, yes, there are women who could, I'm not saying every woman is fit to be a president or will make the right choices or all of those pieces 100%. But I but I believe that um I I'm I'm always so moved by the things that women care about and the things that women talk about. And I just watched this movie of these women that sailed across the North Atlantic, and you know, they're rescuing like a little salamander or turtle from plasti, you know, like if this was a bunch of dudes going across the ocean, this would be an entirely different film. You wouldn't even notice the salamander. You know, it's like there's this piece of we have radically neglected our earth. Like she is crying, screaming at us through the national, like all of the sorry, natural disasters that are happening. Um people have been in uh against each other for five years. It feels like there's been so much division in our world. It is not the time to throw punches, it is the time to have people come together and to have more grace and peace and respect. And I just strongly feel that those characteristics of compassion and empathy and some of these more human pieces for me, not to be stereotypical because I am. Um I feel like it's women. And I'm just so I'm like, honestly, like, wake me up when it's the matriarchy. Like, wake me up when there are more women making choices, wake me up when we have realized through the history of history that the solution is not to go to war ever. Exactly. Ever. You know, the solution is not to it, it it is never, it's not about power and control. You know, it's like people who get, I've had calls with so many people who've made millions of dollars, they have more than enough, and they call me and they say I thought that this was gonna be it. And it's not, and it's also not gonna be it as a country. You never are gonna have enough power or control. And um, and yeah, and I mean it's a really sensitive time globally.
SPEAKER_00Do you know the Jim Carrey quote? He says, Um, I wish everyone will grow up to be rich and famous because then they'll realize it's that's not it. I always I love that quote so much because I'm always like, Yes, preach. Like everybody is so driven towards the fame and the success. And like you get a little hit of that, and you might be like, Oh, I'm actually good on that. Like, but um I want to say so many things about what you said. Like, I think uh the divide started around 2016, not just five years ago, but what was the 2016?
unknownI won't name it.
SPEAKER_03You can name it. I mean, I'm allowed to name it.
SPEAKER_00The first time oh, talking about politics.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, or everybody's gonna be. I'm a Canadian, I'm a Canadian on a business visa. So there's started in 2016. I get wifed up on a green card. The conversation here politically is gonna get a lot more honest. But yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I also think statistically, there I I won't cite any stats. I don't have them off the cuff, but I do think statistically we have checked. And when power is in the hands of women, they're more likely to donate to environmental causes, to um uh like nonprofit organizations, to children. They're more generous, more giving, much more soft. I mean, obviously not word for word. You can't cite these stats, but like I'm pretty sure I have read stats about this when women are in control. So what you're saying is the grateful dead. Found it, actually found it in back. Yeah, and the grateful dead. Like women are smarter in every way. I mean, you can always quote Jerry. I mean, he is a genius. Like, literally, I mean, I'm not a dead head, but I know lots of them, and they have followed the dead well after Jerry's been gone. I mean, who else has created a band that's been that good that people like continue to rock around with their tattoos and all of the things?
SPEAKER_03I'm so voiceover right now because of what's out there. And just like, it's time for women. It's just time for women. It's time for like to be with other women. It is, it's time for I'm just like, I'm just so over the leadership in the world that we're seeing, the choices being made. The I'm just ready for I'm ready to be in a room with you as a woman. I'm ready to um, like there just feels like it's a real space where I'm like boy sober of the political situation and like sober of a boys club. Boys club boys club is out. Boys club, man. Boys club is out. Old boys club, it's definitely out. Or sometimes we just want to be sober of patriarchy. And you're also welcome here. Sober of men, sober of patriarchy.
SPEAKER_00And give us a five-star review and leave us some really cool comments because we want to come up with taglines, kind of like, I mean, can I go for the Gluck Gluck 2000? We want some cool and we are like working on being funny. So if you guys leave us really fun, cooly c cool comments, maybe we'll use it as our tagline. And maybe one day we'll make like hemp organic shirts that we'll send you guys as swag. But we have to first make this a really successful podcast. So help us.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, thanks for tuning in.
SPEAKER_01Okay, ciao.