A Man Isn't A Plan
A man can be a part of your plan, just don’t make him all of it. Velveteen rabbit style real and raw conversations about being a woman on dharma and on purpose.
Hannah Haller lives on her four-acre off-grid homestead in Hawai'i she bought in cash and built from raw land. Between teaching live-streaming yoga classes, leading retreats, writing a bestselling Substack, and actively building a regenerative farm, she shares with her pup, Pete. Over the past 15 years, Hannah has turned an unconventional life into a multi six-figure business and cult-like following – without ever chasing one.
Janne Robinson wrote her viral poem This Is for the Women Who Don’t Give a Fuck in 2014 a piece that reached millions and became an anthem for women putting themselves on the menu. She is the author of two poetry books This Is for the Women Who Don’t Give a Fuck and There’s Cobwebs on Her Vagina and, as a coach, has helped thousands of people create a life of authentic belonging. Janne has led over 200 purpose sessions and has helped more than 120 women start companies from their gifts. Her work is rooted in one core belief — belonging from anything other than who you are isn’t worth it.
Authors:
Hannah Haller
Janne Robinson
A Man Isn't A Plan
4. The Cost of Being Public
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We name the hidden cost of living out loud online and how being public can reshape your nervous system, relationships, and sense of safety. We share the stories that taught us where privacy begins, what authenticity really means, and how to keep a balance between what we share with the world and what we keep to ourselves.
- How early social sharing felt safe and what changed when it grew
- Polarized topics and why projection turns comments into conflict
- Our experiences with death threats, stalkers and the real-world risk of visibility
- The push and pull between privacy and feeling authentic
- Treating social media like email with clear log-in boundaries
- The pendulum swing from secrecy to oversharing online
- Janne’s experience with backlash on Today Show after sharing a post about Botox and the negative effects of the Beauty Industry and wanting women to belong to themselves as they are
- Asking where our choices come from and what we model for girls watching
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Music by Kontraa Music from Pixabay
Welcome And The Podcast Premise
SPEAKER_00Welcome to a man isn't a plan podcast with Hannah Haller and Jana Robinson. Here to remind you that a man can be a part of the plan. Just don't make him all of it.
SPEAKER_01This show is for women deeply on purpose, living their dharma in the world. We're gonna be having very raw, honest, and real conversations.
Why Early Episodes Have Edits
SPEAKER_01And on that note, you may notice that in a couple of our episodes, there are some edits in the videos, and we wanted to share why. We originally were gonna call this podcast Boy Sober, which we really liked the name of. But unfortunately, uh after we had recorded our first few episodes, we realized that Hope Woodard's sister had actually coined the term, and I believe has a podcast named that. So if you do notice any edits in the first few episodes, we wanted to give a little disclaimer of why. And um yeah, we're so excited to host this podcast, have these conversations. Uh thank you for being here. Welcome to a man isn't a plan podcast.
The Hardest Part Of Being Public
SPEAKER_01And today we are gonna talk about the hardest part of being public. Both Hannah and I have been public for over 10 years as nonfiction writers and very openly in the world Velveteen Rabbit style. Um so, Hannah, what's your journey uh been in being public and what parts to keep private versus what to share?
How Posting Turned Into A Platform
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's so good. I actually just had someone ask me that question recently, and I think it's been such a journey because you don't know what you don't know until you don't know it. And like you said, 10 years means that we were like mid-20s on the internet, which I mean was really early for like our time now kids are younger and younger on the internet, but like your brain's barely fully formed. So I feel like you just have no idea what the emotional toll is going to be from putting yourself out there. And I know that I, for one, did not plan like a marketing strategy or a career built around being a social media star. I was posting on Facebook and living abroad, and my parents wanted me to um be able to contact them. And back then we didn't have phone plans that had universal service. We didn't, we had to go to Skype cafes and call them. And so Facebook was like a way that you could post a quick update with very spotty Wi-Fi from abroad and let them know you're alive and get on the move, you know, without having to like plan a whole endeavor to find a Skype cafe, to get in there to pay, to go, you know, a whole thing, and then see if they were even like home and available at that time with a 17-hour time difference. So I was sharing my stories, my very grainy photographs, like overexposed. Do you remember those days? Or there was an iPhone 2010. And and um, we were like doing really saturated images. There was like really grainy, saturated images, like 2012 and stories from abroad. And I think that like it didn't really feel like anyone was listening. So I felt safe because I was just posting my stories for me. I was writing because it was cathartic. I was posting pictures, I was really writing and posting as if it was just my parents watching and listening. And so it felt really natural and organic. And then I kind of kind of started using Instagram, like, I don't know, it was kind of late. I remember I was using it as an editing app, a photo editing app. And then like maybe 2014, I took it to the actual social media platform and learned how to use it. I was like, oh, this is how you post images, and then I started doing that, and then very quickly it segued into like thousands of thousands of people.
Sensitive Topics And Extreme Backlash
SPEAKER_00And over my time on the internet, I talked about vaccinations, I spoke about cultural appropriation, I spoke about um very, very sensitive topics abortion, pregnancy loss, miscarriage, miss pregnant, yeah, same. Um, I mean, obviously separation. So many like issues where people are vehement on their opinions. And I just had no idea. I mean, at one point, like there were people saying that they wanted to like kill my ex-partner, and I like it was crazy the backlash. The crazy the opinions, like people either worshiped you or they wanted to murder you. There were extreme opinions around those topics that I was like, oh wow, I really need to be a little bit more mindful, just for my own personal mental health, about what I share publicly, because people not only are projecting their own lens of experience and perception onto your story and making it whatever they can see through their lens, but also they are extremely opinionated to the point of believing that they are quote unquote right in their opinion. And therefore there is no um, there is no way to meet in the middle. And so it can get really dark really quickly, being that person on the other side.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
When Being Public Stops Feeling Safe
SPEAKER_01Did have you ever not felt safe?
SPEAKER_00A hundred percent.
SPEAKER_01Like physically.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I moved to the most isolated island chain in the world for a reason. I definitely um was ready to put a lot of distance, a large ocean, a large body of water between me and the GP. And that that contributed. Like, I can't lie and say that that didn't contribute. I mean, over the course of being there, I think I've lost probably 150,000 followers. And honestly, I was like, thank God. You know, it gets like that. But like I think it's important that younger kids understand that as well. Because when you ask a 12-year-old what they want to do with their lives, they're gonna say they want to be a YouTube star, but you just don't understand the mental and emotional toll that you'll pay by having that kind of success and fame really young. And I think that that is really important because I, for one, can say 100%, I am psychologically changed as a result of being on social media. What about you?
Wanting To Quit Social Media
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, there's a part of me in constant conversation with I don't actually want to be on social media anymore. But that's where that's where my audience is. Totally. And my friend Mark Groves actually like he pieced, and I was like, I don't know if that's a good idea, Mark. And then he went back to it because it's like, yeah, our we have invested a decade of building trust and relationships with people, and that was the place that we did it. And um I think that without a doubt, people's mental health is being affected by social media. There's so much there. Also, I think I shared about this in a previous episode, but there truly was no one being vulnerable on the internet when we started. And I feel that there, like I felt like a pioneer and one of the first people to be sharing in the way that I was sharing. And now I'm seeing it so often that I'm like, I don't really think that this is relevant or important that I am the one that does this here anymore. While truth and authenticity will always be relevant, I don't want to tell you about the breakup with my ex-boyfriend because it needed to be personal. Well, there's well, part of me as a nonfiction writer is like it it will always need to be my life, but there's a degree of no, I don't feel completely
Stalkers And Real-World Risk
SPEAKER_01safe. And I've had I've had mental and emotionally unsafe experiences which I can share about, but I most recently had a stalker, and he was like a he was like a felon from Arkansas. So scary. Like it was, I I my mom sent me a thousand dollars. I have a mother who is a father, and she she was like, hire a bodyguard. I was like, a bodyguard? Sweet. And she sent you money to do it. She did. And then I called. I actually got on with um, I wish I could know his name, but he's Taylor Swift and Tom Cruise's bodyguard. Did I tell you this? Probably strong, no. We we had a convo, and he gave me a quote and he said, I can do this for you, but I don't want you to like to take, I don't want to take your money. He's like, just cancel the event that you're doing, because I was doing an event in LA. And he said, one percent of the time does a stalker or someone actually do something, but one percent of the time they do. And he knew a woman who didn't hire him, and she just had a bunch of friends and her brother come and her stalker showed up and killed her. Um, yeah. And so not to put fear into people, but I actually had a a coaching client ask me this the other day. She said, Do you ever feel a little afraid? And I'm like, Yes, to a degree, sharing openly. It's almost like when you're deep in the woods and your nervous system feels a little activated, and it should be because that's an accurate reflection of you're in the fucking wild and there's bears and there's cougars. Your nervous system having a bit of alertness is an accurate response. And so, do I feel a little bit of alertness being as public and open on the internet talking about abortion? Similar things that are very emotionally sensitive, talking about the negative effects of organized religion. And in and, you know, I I'm a bit of a cowboy and I've learned some grace, but I'm still a bit of a cowboy. And when you stir shit up and you're a bull in a China shop, um wars are fought over organized religion. People can show up, yeah, and people can show up. And so I think that what I want to say to people is don't be afraid. I don't want to feed the the feedback loop of fear for the people who need to share and put themselves out there and they're afraid to, but you feel a little bit fucking scared to share your story because there are fucking stalkers and there are people who are a little scary in the world. And it does have a toll. It has taken a toll. I sometimes comment back to people on my internet being like, Do you realize I'm a like a human with a heartbeat? Yeah. And like my dog has cancer right now.
SPEAKER_00And the thing that I think the internet, I mean, takes away the facade is that you're no longer human, right? I mean, I sleep on four acres in the dark alone and there are no bears or cougars, and I still hear a crunch outside. I'm like, PETA, you got this? You know, I'm like posting about how many knives and guns I have locked stocked and loaded on the farm for a reason, which is true. All true. Yes. I mean, I remember a troll said to me years ago, this is like 2017 or something. She said, Good luck being a slave to the internet. And just going back to what you were saying about not wanting to be there anymore. I was like, that comment stuck to me so hard. Cause I'm like, damn, what did I see? The meme the other day that said the real luxury is not having to be online or something like that. I butchered it a little bit, but I'm like, that's that's truthfully it, because that there is no business. I mean, where is your business gonna go? It's not gonna go on Instagram. You're not gonna put your your business on Instagram. Everybody's business, it's a business, it's a calling card, it's a resume. Like, look people up. Who are they? You're you're not on Instagram. Like it's like we all have to be there now. It's not even a question of want or desire anymore.
SPEAKER_01It's really, it's so true.
Boundaries With Phones And Followers
SPEAKER_01And I think it's that it's that line of what type of relationship do we have? I think everybody's in conversation with that of like how do we it's it's true that and the the other thing is I think that some of us, I know I have sometimes bad boundaries with my phone, and it's like those boundaries are something for me to look at. We can have a relationship where we treat our social media as an email and we like log in and we log out and we have different boundaries for our mental health around the actual app itself. We don't need to make the app wrong. Um, but it's it's yeah, it's quite interesting um how the relationship to it used to feel versus now. And um, and I do think that um being, and I'm curious to hear your your thoughts on this. I just had this memory show up of I was like my first year in Encinitas, I was on a date with this guy, and we were walking down the 101 in Encinitas, and this woman yelled out of her car, like, I love you. And the guy I was on a date with was like, What was that? And I was like, Oh, we haven't really talked about this, but I'm a writer and I have a like a big audience. And he was like, Like how many people? And I was like, like a hundred thousand. And he looked at me and he said, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Wow, smart. And his biggest value is privacy, so we didn't move forward with dating. Interesting. Sometimes men have that boundary more than women, I feel like. But privacy, so I'm curious to hear for you too. Like, I used to just be like, balls to the walls, here it is, you're inside, my heart, my life, all of me. Like same. Like 100%. Like chorus. And now, and now I sometimes don't feel authentic because I don't do that. But I'm like, I don't want to tell you about my super dysfunctional relationship and like bash my ex because we've already bashed him a bit, but how much more should we really do?
SPEAKER_00Have you ever had people throw your own truths back at you? They'll be like, or try to hold you accountable to who you used to be or something that you said that's their projected version of what they heard, and they're like, but you said this or you said that or you did this. Like, I get that a lot too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, one of the things that still holds true. Remember when Brene Brown said, if you're not in the arena, I don't care about your opinion. You're not living with courage. Yeah. You're not in the like in the no in the ring that like like you're in the nosebleeds telling me how I should live my life. Like, go fuck yourself.
SPEAKER_00I had a lot of that recently with people being like, well, you weren't transparent enough. We didn't know that the your the last ending of your relationship was coming. Like, I'm like, first of all, maybe I didn't either. I'm just about to say that yeah. But also, I like put reposted just like last night or something, a screenshot of a post I did in 2021. So, you know, like six months into one of my relationships or something, and I was basically like, I'm not gonna speak about my relationships publicly anymore. I remember why.
SPEAKER_01I remember that post.
SPEAKER_00And then I went into it and I reposted, I'm like, oh, just you know, for all the Karen's people are like, you're getting really sassy. I'm like, yeah, you know, like I am feeling really um boundried around being like, no, sorry, guys, like your perceptions are not my responsibility. I've been here sharing authentically the entire time, and you can see it however you'd like, but it's not, it's not on me. I'm not taking responsibility for it, you know? Yeah, I'm curious how you feel about that.
Authenticity Versus Oversharing Culture
SPEAKER_01I don't know. I feel like in the beginning I had such this purposeful, integral piece of like, I will be the velveteen rabbit. For those of you who don't know, I'm talking about. Was it Margot Williams who is the skin horse book where it's like the skin horse is talking to the rabbit about being real? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I know the velveteen rabbit. Should we tell people to skip on it? But basically, it's like the little horse says, like, how do you know that you're real? And the bunny says, like, well, it's when you've been played with a lot and one of your ears or your eyes hangs out and you're a little scruffy, like you can you can't be beautiful, like to only people who can't understand. I'm messing that up a little bit. But in the beginning, I felt very conviction in I will share the truth and no one is being honest. And now I'm now I maybe it's because people more people are being truthful and actually too truthful sometimes. Too truthful, where I'm like, where's the grace? What's it?
SPEAKER_00And it's gotten into this oversharing, like, you know, it's amazing to watch the trends shift. I mean, it's gotten into this territory of oversharing now, because the pendulum always swings on trends, right? So we go from one swing to the next one, and then it's like, oh, that's oversharing, or it's performative. And so, like, then it's like, okay, cool. Well, uh, you know, I'm fine to back off of this, but it really, it's it's like, it's like a hard boundary because like really it's just like, well, what do I feel truthfully in my heart really like sharing? It was never performative to me. I really felt quite honest and real. And like, I loved putting my truth out there. Storytelling is the oldest form of art, and it's from wisdom from our elders. Like, it was purposeful because we felt called to share stories that were real. And that guy yelling out the window to you totally reminded reminded me of a guy yelling out the window to me something a little less pleasant. A man yelled out to me, um, herpes, because I had shared about my um HSV in 2018 or so. I shared that publicly, another super stigmatized and taboo topic. Shared that open-heartedly. One in four people have a form of HSV and could not believe it. I was there doing acro at the cliffs at Sunset Cliff on the next day. I mean, I totally put it out a very strong disclaimer for that poor kid. I'm sure he tucked his tail pretty fast and went wandering aside because I was not ashamed. And that wasn't, he wasn't going to put baby in a corner over something that I'm like, no, you're probably the one out there infecting all the women. Don't try and throw this back and deflect. I was like, that's the thing, and that's where the heart of it, I think, came from for us was like, shame doesn't live in the dark. We need to publish the stories, we need to share wisdom with women, with like younger women that are coming up behind us because we want them to know these kinds of things. Like, who the fuck goes on the internet? And it's like, I got HSV, like careful out there, watch out for things. Like, you guys need to be careful. This is why, you know, like all of that felt so relevant. And I feel like it's a little bit sad the trend that it's like, oh, now it's all like keep things private and this and that. And I'm I'm happy to have boundaries, but I'm sad I have to have them, I guess. Like, I'm sad that the world has made me have them because closing my heart doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel natural and intuitive to me to like close up and not share everything with everyone. That's the question.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Do you do you feel that the reason you're more private is because of the effect of people saying unkind and like just the effect of being public has caused more privacy?
Mean Internet Versus Real-Life Community
SPEAKER_00I think that definitely has a huge impact. Yeah. People are I mean, I was just sharing it with my parents because I was so dumbfounded at my retreat in Thailand recently that everyone that showed up, I like not only felt was being wholeheartedly authentic, but was like people that I would literally sit and like call to my land, like they were like sisters immediately. And I was like, how do these people exist? And my life on the internet feels the polar opposite. It feels like people are rude, mean, nasty, dehumanizing. Like, and I just don't feel like dealing with it. I'm like, I I don't have to share shit, you know, like this is like I I'm here by the good will. Like, I'm just offering what I'm offering. Like, I'm not here to argue with anyone. I don't care if you like it, if you want to read it, like if you don't, like go somewhere else. It's totally fine. I'm not asking you to be here. I mean, of course, I would love your support if you like my content, but I'm not like, but I think it's both. I think I felt very unsafe after experiencing, you know, death threats. And I feel I felt like also people just aren't nice. And I'm like, you know what? I don't, I don't need to do this. Like it's not worth it to me to sacrifice my mental health, unfortunately. And that's the sad part, you know, like that's the part that makes me feel really sad because when I felt like when like early days you could share everything, and I I felt like you couldn't you didn't receive as many responses like that. I know you said you have kind of a a different feeling about
Collective Burnout And Low Grace
SPEAKER_00that.
SPEAKER_01Well, I what I wanted to say is I I was having a customer service experience that was love this, awful yesterday. And I was like, I remember being trained as like a hospitality manager. I promise I'll loop this back, everybody, if you're like, where is she going? I'm really good at it. We trust you. You've got this. So I remember when I was 15, I was the hospitality manager at McDonald's, and I went through fucking extensive training where it was like customers, right? I wore a manager uniform. Yeah, you did. I gave coffee refills. I was like, how was your experience? I remember so cute. I remember what customer service used to be. I'm not gonna say the name of the company, but I had an awful customer experience with a local business. And I was like, because I think now we just the last I feel like the last five years, the customer service has gone down the drain, but also has been globally maybe what feels like the most challenging in my lifetime. I'm 36, the most challenging five years collectively, I think humanity has gone through. And the two things that are true. Is I think that people are mental health-wise not in a great place. I think the amount of things that have happened living in America with COVID and with like we have gone through like so many different pieces of Black Lives Matter. Like there's been the political pieces of the climate. I mean polarized. There's just so much shit going on where people are tired. And I think what's like what's true is two things. I think people are collectively exhausted because of inflation and individualism and the cost of everything is crazy. And we used to live in villages and no one was trying to pay $8,000 a month for a fucking one-bedroom condo. Um, but I think people's mental health and energy levels last five years. I think people are not in a great place. And I think the internet is showing us that in where people are and their capacity for grace and respect. And I just would I whatever, you know, sometimes people, I was actually talking to a client about when somebody threatens to sue you. And I was like, if somebody threatens to sue you that's not in a good place mental health-wise, do not go to court with them because they have nothing to live for, and they will make their whole life about that fight and that thing. And I think what people need to be aware of from compassion and empathy and grace is like everyone's having a hard time right now in the world. People are being shitty because they're in shitty places and they're really tired. And I was just at a conference speaking about this, and like employees and people are exhaust. I mean, we're all like, I'm tired. Are you tired? Yeah. We're fucking tired. Everyone's tired too. It feels like the last five years have been emotionally really collectively intense. And so yeah, I think that that's a part of what we've been dealing with in the comment section and in the world. Um and yeah, and then I've had I've had really awful experiences online that I can't even believe. I mean, one time I I'm surprised that I've continued to share over that one experience that I had, which was in I don't know if we talked about this.
Grief, Ostracism, And Online Attacks
SPEAKER_01I thought that we had, but when um when Daniel died, so this was probably eight or nine years ago and he committed suicide. Um, I think the proper way of saying that now is die by suicide, um was um I was a newer person in his life. And some of his older friends and family didn't know me. And we talked about being life partners and um having kids together. And at his funeral, people came up to me and said, you know, when Daniel met you, he told us he'd met his wife, and there was a strong connection. Um I after he died, all I could write was my grief because I was really sad, and um, that wasn't understood by some people in the community. And um, there was one guy in particular who kind of took it upon himself at the funeral and the celebration of life. It's a really small community on the Sunshine Coast. And he like, Daniel had said to him that I was like this guy's wife, and so he felt almost like I was a widow, I think. And so he offered me a place to live. He really like took care of me. And then this switch happened. I had all my stuff moved out, and I was about to move in, and then he was like started to be controlling around who could come in the space. And he was like, if you're dating somebody, they can't be. And then I went, I think I'm good. And then a s a switch flipped in him where he was he started to send me notes calling me a sociopath and that I was I never cared about Daniel, and that I was just capitalizing and commodifying and making money off of my grief, and all of this was a show. And I had some friends who moved the stuff that was moved in out of his house because I felt unsafe. And then he there was levels of ostracization where he first he called probably 50 members in Roberts Creek, the little community I lived in, and like different people and friends and acquaintances, and called some of them for up to two hours and told them that I was a sociopath and I didn't care about Daniel. And like then I had an attack happen. Some of these people didn't know me that well online. Uh-oh. Like online, all some people stopped talking to me, and then there was like an online attacking up, yeah, of all these people that I'd been grieving with, that I'd created relationship with, and um, and then he created a real Yana Robinson Facebook page, and like my audience was fighting. And then he contacted Elephant Journal, who I was writing for, and Daniel's family members, some of them who didn't know me, and they listened to him. And so Elephant Journal asked me to remove all of my writing.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_01And I remember, and I'm in the pits of the deepest grief I've felt at 36. Having I remember sitting on my mom's laptop in the basement removing all of these pieces of writing. Wow. And my whole like nervous system just kind of like like shutting down inside. And I mean, that'll that's that's a that fucked me up. That fucked me enough to stop writing forever. And so when I have clients or people I'm working with and I get asked this sometimes like, do you ever wanna not? I'm like, oh yeah, every day. You know, that was the probably that was the hardest that was the most traumatizing online and I mean it was a multi-level ostracization attack by this guy. Um people, community, online, my career, my work. Um, that was pretty intense. Oh, it's your most intense.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh.
Brand Backlash And Retreat Death Threats
SPEAKER_00So my ex and I at one point were sponsored by a yoga wear company. And in and I had a lot of friends that were on both, like I'm in the yoga community, it's a small community. This was a long time ago, seven or eight years ago. Small community, but there's only a handful of us at that time that had a certain number like range of following. You know, there were a few pretty big ones. There were a few of us that were like, I would call me gen two. I was like, you know, not 2012, but more like 2014-15. And so those ones that were like Gen 1, their followings went up to a million pretty fast, you know, and then the next of us were probably more like half a million or something, you know, pretty fast. And my friends, I mean, this was like, this was like the heartbreak of so many reasons because of all the friendships that I feel like really I lost as a result of this article that was written. And, you know, my ex and I were sponsored by the Athletic Wear Company. We really liked them. They made a good product. I was with them for a long time. We recently closed out contract just because our creative brands have gone in different directions. I don't feel any animosity towards them. It's just that we've gone in different directions, just like a lot of relationships do. But um, at the time, I also uh it felt very polarizing for the article to be written and actually every person that the brand worked with to be called out one by one and singled out. And it was catastrophe among the entire community. And there was so much um just like heartbreak throughout the community. Like there were friends that I had been speaking to recently that hadn't told me, like, yo, by the way, like, here this article is gonna be published. Like, you know, like anything would have been, I I think at the time we were struggling yoga teachers, and we were like, man, we are lucky to be able to pay rent. We'd been living in a van. We are so lucky to be able to pay our rent right now. Like, you know, this is not. Do we agree with everything that this company's doing? No, but do you ever agree with everything any company is doing, every single thing that you ever partner with? I think it's I think it's silly to say yes to that. And I've worked with hundreds, if not thousands, of brands over the course of the last 10 to 12 years of my career. And um, companies that I really like, I think are some of the best companies out there. Like I would say that I've worked with probably every company I've ever desired to the queen of partnerships. I've been genius zone for you. Yeah, I could say that like I've done very well partnering large contracts, six-figure annual contracts many, many times with many, many brands that I have loved. Like I've loved them. They've been dream partnerships. So, like, to say that they haven't been top tier would be absolutely 100% wrong. They are the companies that are doing better than any company out there. So I'm partnering with the best brands. Do I still believe in every aspect of their business? No. Do I think they could keep striving for more? 100%. Do I think that we're driving the companies to go in that direction? Yes, 100%. And I'm backing the best ones. So, like, yes, I'm I'm happy with that, you know? But it was so, it was just such a break in the community. And I don't think we've really ever recovered from that as a community. And again, death threats. Like, I remember being, I was facilitating a retreat on this um pretty remote um Greek island Amorgos, and somebody actually reached out and told me they were at retreat there a year after I was or something, reminded me of this time because I was so stressed out. I was receiving horrific comments, nearly the entirety of the retreat. I really wasn't eating. We were traveling. I was, you know, hold holding space. Uh like I think I don't even know what we did with our dog at the time, but it was just, it was just, I didn't enjoy it. Like she was like, oh, it's such a beautiful place. I was like, was it? Yeah. I was like, I wouldn't have even known. And people don't understand because all they see is beautiful yoga poses with a beautiful couple, with a beautiful backdrop. And I was literally receiving death threats. Like I was having like wounds ripped open from like being traumatized in the past. Like I remember things were coming up from um like when I was in, I mean, when I was having like, I was having like basically like some of my hardest experiences in my life were being ripped open as a result of that experience. And I was like going down a deep, dark trajectory during that time. And so it was just so, it's just really so sad. Because it's like people can look at it and be like, oh, that must have been such a great experience. But unless you're there and you see the full picture and you know what's going on, like I remember turning off comments, like, and back then, I don't know, I'm sure your engagement was much higher too. But back then, I mean, we were getting thousands of comments. We were 50,000 likes were not uncommon, like huge amounts of people, you know, like that kind of that kind of mass to one page will just tack onto things. And and they did not have the kind of um, like I remember having blocking, like having to keep control diligently on my page and blocking a lot of things that were just pure hate, but also you had to block out words individually because people would be able to think they tag people, lawsuits were started over this. Like it was, it was very extreme and very aggressive and clearly traumatizing. I can feel my heart rate coming up as a result of just talking about it, like yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Death rats. I once had a guy made made homemade perfume and mailed it to me, and that was creepy that I both gave him my address and that he made homemade.
Beauty Pressure And The Botox Debate
SPEAKER_01You know what I just thought of when you said that was um I the the Botox thing, the post that I made about it was really just about it was against the beauty industry, not women, but it was totally misunderstood. But I oh yes, but I got attacked on the internet, so I was like, I'll just go off social media, and then the Today show aired uh a news thing, and then it hit traditional media, and and then I couldn't get away from it. I remember being in a massage chair in the Vancouver airport, bawling my face out because it was like my nervous system couldn't actually hold. I can share more about what it actually was, but just that it that energy you're talking about when you have so many people and it's not love.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's not love.
SPEAKER_01It's like our our we're we're mammals, we're animals, you know, and our nervous system only has the capacity to hold so much. So, anyways, real quick, the the whole post was just around um, you know, I think the beauty industry preys off of telling women they're not enough. And um, we've talked a lot about this. We want women to feel comfortable to do whatever they want with their bodies, but so much of us, 85% of our choices are coming from our subconscious mind. And we have been shaped since we were so small with ads and the beauty and like so much so much is like look like this and do this to get love that I don't think sometimes we're aware of where our choices are coming from. And I just felt this rage at like wanting women to feel safe to like you only, you know, this is the only face, no one else has my face.
SPEAKER_00100% agree, you know, and just like you know, and if there wasn't money in it, it wouldn't be it wouldn't be the experience, but there's money in it, and whenever you want to find the truth of something, follow the money, right? Yeah, yeah. Follow where the money, the paper trail is because this country is capitalistic and through and through. Yeah. And it will lead you, and I I completely agree. I mean, we've been seeing magazines that have filters all over them. I mean, since you and I were born for sure, but even long before that. I mean, women that are at a standard that not many are. And so it's just yeah, it's unfair. And I think a lot of times we do think I'm making this decision for myself, but it's it's it's hard. And I think, I think it's really hard to even acknowledge that it's coming from our unconscious because we don't really know that, and we don't really, it's it's hard to kind of trace and track that. I have to look at myself in the mirror all the time. And I've been a practitioner of yoga for 20 years and say, wait a minute. Really, where is your intention coming from in this? And then I'm like, oh, questionable. And I will sit here and say a hundred percent that like how I look matters. Like I'm out in the jungle and all those things. But yes, I I am still a woman. I still shave my legs from time to time. Like I still I use dry shampoo every now and then. Like, I still try. And if and if I sat here and be like, no, I don't try, that would be a lie. I care about how I look. I want to keep my skin really nice. I've been working on my hair and my skin and my nails, like they've just started mattering to me at nearly 40, like better late than never. But yeah, you know, like I think it's still, it's still okay to admit that we care about our looks, and it's also okay to say that, like, yeah, like we might not always know where the choices are coming from. I mean, I sat in the airport in Thailand and there was a 16-year-old girl, if not younger, with um a bandage on her face and her eyes were black and blue, and she was speaking to her Thai family, you know. I think it was her first meal after post-op. And, you know, it it looked to me like rhinoplasty. It could have been something else, but 16, you know, like that's that's really young. People go to those places to have work done, you know, Mexico, Colombia, where cheap work is done. I mean, I was in Ibiza recently and saw lots of surgery, lots of surgery, lots of women with faces that looked like AI had generated them for them and lots that looked the same. And I thought the same thing. And I did a similar post. I don't, I don't hate the messenger. Like, this isn't about hating on women. I think we have been conditioned by a society that judges us based on our appearance and whether like we want to admit that or not. Like that's the case. We walk into a room, like people are looking at us or not, we want attention or not, like we want a job, we want success, we want a husband. All of that is based on first and foremost our looks, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_01I know, and what's one of the what's one of the reasons we've bonded is that we don't really brush our hair and we're we are like more wild. I think that's part of why I was attracted to like your probably your content and your page years ago. And we talked about this in a future in an other episode, I think we recorded. Um, but yeah, I I so agree with you, and it's it's um, you know, there was there's this I was surfing with a guy in El Salvador when this whole thing happened, and I shared with him about it, and he was like telling me this story about this news anchor who had this massive nose in El Salvador, and he was like, She had this big, beautiful nose. Like, I love her nose. I love it. And then he was like, one day, no nos. Yeah. He's like, Oh, so sad. What happened? Yeah, you know, and so I think we forget that there's a uniqueness that is so special about all of us. And if we can just tell the beauty industry and the magazines and the fucking ads being served at like to look 20 your whole life to like fuck themselves, because that's not what self-worth or value is. And I'm sorry, but like if and I mean there's a lot of stuff around this, but like our our greatest contribution is not how put together we are or the fact that like when we laugh, there's no lines.
SPEAKER_00It's hard to say in our generation because you know, I think there's a lot of emphasis right now on the trends being like, yeah, we take control. If we want to do it, we're gonna do it. And that's great. Everybody should do whatever makes them happy. And also we should ask ourselves why this is making us happy. Why, yes, it's adding confidence to our lives, but why do we live in a place that requires us to look different, to have that confidence? And is there anything we can do to make change? You know, like would we want our daughters doing these things, or would we advise them not to? Or would we tell our best friend, like, hey, you know, like maybe, you know, yes, of course, everyone should do whatever they want. And also we should all just know why we're making the choices that we're making and making sure they're coming from, you know, yes, a place that we really want to, and also the place that we want the the change we want to see in the world, the place that we want to see people coming from in next generations and the ones after, you know?
SPEAKER_01Just like a pause and like, do I feel like I am enough without X, Y, and Z? You know, what's what's the pushing piece here? Because it's so easy to just react to something. And like, I have one of those fucking red light masks. Like, I'm I'm not saying I don't care about my skin.
SPEAKER_00I get IPL, like I'm doing micro needle, like I'm doing all the things. We care about our skin too. Yeah, I care about doing, I care about doing a lot of things. Like, I'm not gonna lie. And I I would also, I'm not not open to doing am I I'm microbladed, microbladed my brows. I like to do that every few years. I've done it a few times in the last 10 years. Like, I'm not sitting here saying I'm not not open to doing things of more, like, I don't know exactly where the barrier lies between like surgical and not, or like more medi spa stuff and not, but like I'm not a hundred percent granola hippie over here either. Like, there's definitely I'm open to both things. I just think that like, yeah, I just think that getting really clear on where things are coming from. And I really feel like when we as women do things thinking about our little sisters, our children, our daughters, because they're looking at you. So when you're making a choice as a 40, 40-year-old woman, know that there are little girls on the internet looking up to you and saying, Well, I like what Yana says. What does Yana look like? What is she doing? Because she's gonna want to be like you. And are you going to be happy that, you know, you did everything that you did, and she's gonna want to do that too? I don't know if that's clear.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no. It's no, it's really, it's really well said and and yeah, and good to talk about. But yeah, so what was it the cost of being public or the worst parts of being public?
Staying Public While Staying Safe
SPEAKER_01I feel like we the cost of being public. Yeah, there and there has been veered off, but there's been a yeah, no, we I I like that's where we go. I think that so yeah, I guess, ladies and gentlemen, if you are listening and we are welcoming of anyone to listen to this podcast, not just women. It's true. There is a cost. A hundred million percent large cost. And I'm also not going anywhere. You going anywhere? No, no. That's also good to be said of there's a cost, and you know, you learn the ways in which to keep yourself safe.
SPEAKER_00And now I sleep with pepper spray by my bed because I don't believe in guns, but I have a really I have like a hook knife and a World War II issue, like a rifle. Very close to my can do gun. I'm I'm I'm like it's dark out there. I mean I got a gate, a program to code myself. I know. I think about cameras. I got cameras all over the farm. I'm thinking about you out there. Keep everybody away.
SPEAKER_01I dated I dated a series of firefighters, and they were like, Do you know how many peeping? Because I don't have to tell you, you're gonna tell us about peeping toms. Peeping toms, because they didn't have curtains.
SPEAKER_00There's a guy at the beach at one of our beaches, and he's known to like um sit like this. They have him up on the the neighborhood watch and all that. He wears like see-foo see-through trunks.
SPEAKER_01God, I thought he was saying he was gonna like take photos or videos. I was like, Oh, I'm sure he does. I'm sure he does.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's really, really creepy.
SPEAKER_01Well, y'all stay safe out there. We're not trying to instigate fear, but also No, but I mean it's it's good. I think people need to be safe. I think it's like, let's just not blow smoke up everybody's ass that it's okay that it's totally safe to be public and there's not a cost to being public because like when people come to me, they're like, Well, I'm so afraid. I'm like, good, you should be a little fucking afraid, you know. Like, you know, and I've had clients, we've talked about this in the Middle East, who have to write under a fake pen name because they know women who have been murdered by people close to them in their lives for using their voice. So luckily we're not in that world, but I mean, it's still it's still not a hundred percent safe.
SPEAKER_00So I love that. I used to have a lot of women from the Middle East um like write to me, especially in my early days, like in 2016 and stuff, when I was I I mean, I was younger, I was in my late 20s, but when I was doing a lot of acro in like one pieces and bikinis, and they would just be so surprised that a woman in her home could wear like one pieces like that on camera and post it and stuff. And they would they would be like ad admiration. Like one of my first private clients was um Iraqi and was was saying the same thing. Like to see a strong woman in a bikini on Instagram was like unheard of at that time. That's how different the internet was. Now it's like totally different. But back in the dark ages where I came from, yeah, it was sweet, it was endearing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I'm grateful that we get to use our voices and that we live in Canada and the US. And I'm also I'm like very aware of the privilege of that and just like yeah, working with some people in different parts of the world. Um wish it was safe for all women to use their voice in the same way.
SPEAKER_00Uh now I wear pajamas, like extra large pajamas on the internet. So much things have changed. And my fly was down. That was great. Hopefully it wasn't.
SPEAKER_01You weren't. You were you were cross layers. Well, thank you guys for tuning in. And um, yeah, it's so good to so good to be here with you guys. And uh, we'll see you next time on a man isn't a plan. Thank you.