A Messy Amen
A Messy Amen welcomes you into the conversations you might not be having on Sundays. Do you ever feel like you want to get to know people more but you get the weird sense that no one can relate to your struggle? You show up to church, sing, listen to the sermon, and go home feeling forgotten, isolated, and frustrated? Here we will be sharing stories that help women of faith feel less alone. We will be honest in ways that may normally feel foreign and share how we hold on to faith and trust God in the ups and downs.
A Messy Amen
Neon Signs - Seeking God & His Kingdom in Everyday Moments
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What if the thing you thought was helping you cope… was actually the thing quietly destroying you?
Struggling with addiction, codependency, or feeling stuck in unhealthy patterns?
In this episode of A Messy Amen, I sit down with my friend Alyssa to talk about addiction, trauma, and what it really looks like to surrender your life to God, not just in words, but in the hard, uncomfortable, “I don’t want to let go of this” kind of way.
Alyssa shares her powerful testimony of overcoming drug and alcohol addiction, breaking free from codependency, and learning that surrender wasn’t about giving God pieces, it was about giving Him everything.
This conversation is honest, heavy at times, and full of the kind of moments that make you stop and think, God really does meet people in the middle of their mess.
In this episode, we talk about:
- Addiction and recovery through faith in God
- Codependency, control, and surrendering relationships
- Healing from trauma, anger, and past abuse
- Learning to hear God’s voice in the middle of the mess
- Identity in Christ and moving from brokenness to restoration
If you’ve ever tried to numb the pain, control the outcome, or hold everything together on your own, this episode will meet you there. “I thought I was just having fun… until I couldn’t stop.”
Because no matter how far you feel gone, God is still in the business of restoration.
Scriptures mentioned:
- Jeremiah 33:3
- Ephesians 3:20
- Romans 12:19-21
- Matthew 6:33
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Life isn't always Sunday best. Sometimes your faith is put to the test. If you feel unseen and all alone, it's time for stories you've never known. Hey friends, and welcome to a messy amen. This is a show where we talk about the good, the bad, and the holy parts of real life. I am so glad you're here. Thank you for joining us. Today we're talking about addiction and all of the mess and craziness that that journey can involve and finding hope and finding God to meet you back on to meet you and bring you back to Him. So I want to highlight stories that really make you think, wow, God has really had their back. Whether that's trials that come after making poor choices or stuff that God has just allowed um that we wouldn't choose ourselves, but then God can use and whether it's to teach us things or to grow our faith and um through trials like that. And right now I am so excited to talk to my friend Alyssa. Alyssa, hey, how are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. Thank you so much for joining me. I am so excited for this um chat and um tell me how things have been going lately.
SPEAKER_01A lot better than they have been in the past.
SPEAKER_02So um like we have had um if we broke down your story, we could talk for it would be probably f a four-part docuseries. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Literally.
SPEAKER_02So um one of the things that um we've um just touched base on is just the immensity and the hugeness of where God has just led you through ins and outs and different um things. And I w for a little intro and uh just a fun little prompt, can you tell me if someone was going to write a book about your life, what would it be called?
SPEAKER_01Oh goodness gracious. Um, okay, so surprise! Uh uh. Um, so this wasn't even going to be a thing, right? We haven't even talked about this.
SPEAKER_02You didn't know. Nobody knew. I wanted a segue and not just be like, oh, tell me your deepest, darkest secret.
SPEAKER_01Yes, like no, nobody has really known this. Um there was literally only three people in the church that knew this. Um, my parents and my kids and my boyfriend. That was it. Um, and uh God really truthfully, probably about a year ago, um came to me in a dream and set up like because I had such a testimony and I knew I did, I just didn't know exactly how to tell it. And I had this dream and it was prophetic and it was profound, and it was me writing a book, and um I woke up and it wasn't just writing a book, but it was exactly how to lay this book out. Oh wow, and it was different than just a normal book, and and it was like I won't give it all away, right? But it was just different, and it was like I know that that is God telling me because I would have never thought about that. That is not a thought that would have come into my head. This is not something that I would have thought of. Um, and I was like, oh my gosh. I and not only that, but I saw I saw the cover of the book, a picture of the cover of the book, and I will tell you that my daughter was in it, and and I saw the title of the book, and I would love to tell you the title, and I tried to, but nobody's home to tell me, but I did write it down, and then I called my mom and my dad, and they um they were like, wow, that is so good and so beautiful, and that is definitely God, and that is definitely a way to get your testimony out. So I know, you know, when you have parents that are like that that can that can you just know when you have when you have people in your life that that tell you that, and then I had people in the church literally say, Hey, when are you gonna write a book? I had about three people after that, that three to five people after that that had asked me, Hey, when are you gonna write a book? And I was like, This is God's confirmation for me. I just knew without a shadow of a doubt that that was 100% my confirmation, and I just hadn't started until recently when I couldn't find a job, and this woman in in our church was like, Hey, when are you gonna start writing a book? And I'm and I was praying and praying, and I was like, Hey, God, I don't know what else to do. You know, I just know that you're gonna provide. And then one day this woman said, Alyssa, when are you gonna start writing your book? And I finally said, I I just started, and she said, That's exactly what I wanted to hear. And I was like, I had this God moment, right? And it was like, that's what you needed to do. Like, I will provide now, you know, not not now, but you get what I'm saying. Like, I just knew that that that was kind of what God was waiting on. Like, he's been waiting on me to do this thing for him. It wasn't about me. Yeah, it was about him. And and so he he gave me this this prophetic dream and and profound dream, and he was waiting on me to carry that out. And so now that's what I'm doing. And now everybody knows because that's crazy that you had that question. I was supposed to do my silly icebreaker. I know, like it was that's so crazy and not at the same time, like that's a god thing.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, what I do that. So a little bit of um your backstory. You are telling me with some addiction and some alcohol, um, drugs and alcohol and um different things. You also mentioned um codependency and relying on other people and relationships. Um, can you tell me how you go from the codependency back then to fully surrendering and relying on God?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so that was you know, at first I thought honestly that it was such an easy thing. Like in the beginning, I'm like, oh, this is so easy, like I can just give it all to God, and um, but I truly believe the more that I'll tell you that when I really realized that I had a codependency issue was when I was at the altar. Um and I I went to the altar a lot during my addiction. Well, I was pretty much out of my addiction at that point. I was just very much like trying to stay out of it. And it was just a heavy process because, you know, I had lost my brother, I had lost my job, I was laid off my job, and I had, you know, I was going through a divorce at that point in time, and I didn't know what else that I needed to do because I felt like my whole world was crumbling in front of me. And so I I would be up at the altar and we had our seek surrender prayer nights, and that's when we first started them at church years ago, a couple years ago.
SPEAKER_02Two years ago, maybe a year and a half, two years ago.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And that night was I was praying because I had never actually heard God's voice, you know. That was when I I had never heard God's voice, and I just kept praying, like, God, I just need to hear your voice. I I need these neon signs. That's what I always call them. Like, God, you know that I am stubborn, you know that I need a neon sign from you, this big sign from you. I need to hear your voice, I need to hear something from you. And I was at the altar, I had given up like everything, like all the drugs, all the alcohol, like um, everything. And I I'm like, God, what else can I give up to you? And he he said, I I literally heard his his voice so small and still, and he said, I I want your husband and I want your children, you know, give them to me. And I was like, I and at that same moment I saw this vision of him on the cross, and so it was like he was saying, like, it wasn't a throw in my face, it was just saying, like, I have I too have sacrificed for you, and it was such a big sacrifice, and it was just I I was bawling, you know, because I knew at that moment that he he had given everything for me, everything. So what who am I to to literally not be able to do that? And at that moment, he was asking me for the things that I was trying to control. And that was when I really said, Oh my goodness, I have such a codependency issue. I want to rely on my husband and at the time and my children, and I wasn't just relying on them, I I needed them, but I wasn't needing God.
SPEAKER_02So as the transactional relationships of you're helping somebody else and they're helping you, and that like you're go piggybacking off of each other and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it was awful because I didn't ever realize that I was codependent on my kids, and I think a lot of people I don't want to speak for anybody else. I know for me, I had a very difficult time with that because it was one thing to give up somebody that had hurt me in such a such a awful way, but it but it also hurt me to just say, okay, I'm surrendering to you. But my kids, I'm like, oh, yeah, that's tough.
SPEAKER_02That hurts a little bit.
SPEAKER_01That's tough, like that's so hard. Like, what am I supposed to do about that? But it was literally giving up full control, knowing, but it wasn't just knowing that God had them, it was believing it too. And that was the thing that I was missing. That was the missing piece. It was like I would give God these little pieces, right? I'd be like, here you go, here you go. Just kidding. Like, I want this little bit back and this little bit back and this little back. I couldn't, I couldn't surrender fully. I never did, nothing. And then when I could fully surrender and not just surrender, but believed what I was surrendering was going to be okay, and he was going to prov provide or heal or whatever. And it was about praying that God protected my heart, and that was huge for me, and that's like my prayer all the time. Like, God protect my heart, protect my kids' heart, you know, and that was that was the big part for my for my codependency, but that was a huge, huge transition.
SPEAKER_02Big So we're talking a lot about you know, in these moments, it's not just about the behavior, but then it goes deeper on like I identity level. But God is a God of restoration and that He can give us a new name and a new way reframing our thoughts and our perspective. So coming from that those past moments and those feelings, how would you say you're going from here? What new core names are we answering to? What are we believing now as a new creation in Christ?
SPEAKER_01So before, I'll tell you, I ooh, I felt worthless, like unwanted, unloved, um, depressed, um just I I mean, really just everything, every terrible thing that you could feel, I pretty much had felt like at that hopeless. Um everything that you shouldn't feel as I feel like I feel like we have this, you know, uh stipulation or I don't know, it was a word I'm looking for, but like, you know, this identity as a Christian, you know, you we think that we shouldn't feel this way. Um but man, I I did. And um I do remember there was one time that I came into church and one of the pastors was like Yeah, you you've you've changed. And it was such a like profound moment because it was as I was growing and it was around the time that I was getting baptized too, and I was just it was the moment that I needed because I started to feel loved and found. Yes, you know, um provided for, uh healed, you know, um God taking those things and just change turning it 180 degrees. Yeah, my heart felt so full. And I think like through spiritual experiences, like you just I think you know, I tell people often too, until you've really felt those, like until you have deep down and felt those, because I thought that I did before, but uh man, once you feel them, once you feel God's love and it flows through you, it's a different, it's a different look.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And even sometimes those moments of having felt so hopeless or so unwanted that can really show you uh how much sweeter it is when we feel feel God's presence.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So tell me about a lie that you used to believe about yourself and what biblical truth helped you combat that lie.
SPEAKER_01I used to I used to believe heavily that I didn't belong in in this world. Like I I used to believe that like that addiction would would numb every every pain. Um I used to believe my anger would heavily um combat everything. Um you know, but I know I mean, and it is one of my favorite verses for for anger, anyway. I'll just say that. But where Romans um 12, 19 through 21 talks about, um, where it talks about uh anger and I it talks about how you shouldn't take revenge, it talks about how God will take that wrath. And I always when I read that verse, I was like, oh who wants to feel who wants to feel God's wrath? Not me. Okay, like that is not gonna be me. I don't want to. But then it talks about how you should do the complete opposite, you know, you should you should feed those people. You should you should do the complete opposite, and I'm like, ooh, that's that, no, that's really.
SPEAKER_02I was like, no, I'm gonna fight someone.
SPEAKER_01And I was, I was, I did. I thought, I thought, like, I would throw things, like I was an angry person because of past things that have happened to me, past abuse, past like, and I justified it. Like, that was okay because of this. And um But I know that God God gives us grace, you know. God has and I tell people often, I'm like, listen, this is how I know because God has felt all these same feelings that I have felt. God has been angry before, God has been a jealous God before, and now I don't and Jesus was a human.
SPEAKER_02Right. So he had, you know, both.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. So I'm like, I I get that I feel these things, but I don't need to feel these things. So uh most times Well, you don't need to sin in their anger. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02So what what would you say was a lie that you believed about anger?
SPEAKER_01What that anger would get me somewhere.
SPEAKER_02That it would help you.
SPEAKER_01That it would help me, that it would be lashing lashing out or that it would that it would make my kids do some and I'm talking like r but I'm not talking just a spanking. I'm talking like I would like throw something by them or you know, like and not abuse like that, but I'm talking like I would just you felt that like the rage in that it wasn't just anger, yeah. It was rage, it was pure rage, and I don't even know where it came from. You know, it just got worse and worse, and that's when I was like, I need to do something because I knew I know how I am, I know that I can and it wasn't towards my kids, but this was like people in general, and then I saw the enemy start to work against me. This is after I started going to recovery, and there was somebody that tried to fight me at at a church. Oh, yeah, and I'm like, I need to please, you know, I was like, please just remove yourself from like this vicinity away from me. And like they came toward me, like in my face, and I'm like, please just remove and this is six months into my recovery, so or not even maybe four months, and so I'm like, okay, God, like, please just help me just walk away, please just help me walk away. And I am steadily walking away, but I can feel myself getting enraged, you know. And old me would have knocked somebody out, like truly, yeah. That was me. Yeah, that was me. I was a fighter. I I didn't care who you were. Yeah, it was fine. Like I would fight, I would drink, I would fight, I would drink, I would find it.
SPEAKER_02Because you're reacting to like just unresolved, you know, trauma and all these things. And so like when you you know, you're talking talking about recovering, you're like you were using drugs, you uh drank alcohol. What were you what were they fixing and what were like what were you feeling that it was numbing in that process? And how did God meet you there? And how did we how'd you get from point A to point B to give give those feelings to him rather than numbing them?
SPEAKER_01Like in like um I think for me it would in those it works until it doesn't. Right, right. It works until the next morning, like or a couple hours later.
SPEAKER_02Um so what were you hoping that it would fix?
SPEAKER_01So, you know, I went through sexual abuse, I went through um physical abuse, I I went through relationships, I was very promiscuous, I um, you know, I have lost a lot of people. Uh I've been through some trauma that that I you know it was it was pretty crazy and and a lot of health issues and not understanding that some of the things that I went through I really put myself through, right? And and until you start, I don't want to say you, until I started going through recovery, I never understood my own patterns. I never understood that maybe some of these were not me, but most of those problems I could have stopped, right? And and they were patterns because of maybe my childhood, because of the abuse that I went through. But but also that was just because I went through that doesn't mean that I have to continue to make bad choices. And it's it's a hard thing, you know, because it's it's not like it's not like um I I didn't really I subconsciously Like you know, made these choices in the beginning. I'm like, oh yeah, well, go out and have a good time. I didn't think that they were gonna turn into what it turned into, right? So you you're just down the road, you find these people who you think are friends, and then they turn into your best friends, and then they help you make these decisions, but really they become enablers. And so you think that they love you and that they're there and they're supporting you, and and all this, and and really it's just pulling you, it's like um when you make decisions like that, and you find people like that. Uh, I think Pastor just kind of talked about this. You know, you're finding people that are pulling you away from God. You should know immediately that that is not your people, right? But I was showing up to church every single Sunday and Wednesday, and I was going to the altar and I was praying. Now I would granted show up a half hour late so I could get a Coke and a and a burger to try to get rid of the the alcohol from Saturday night, but I thought in my head still that I was doing the right thing because I had my kids in church and I was in church, but truthfully, I was living the most lukewarm Christian life that I possibly could.
SPEAKER_02Double-minded of, you know, thinking one thing, doing another. But okay, so y when you were talking a second ago, I wanted to interrupt. But so how do you go for someone that might just be like on edge, be like, oh, you know, you're making these choices, that's on you know, that's on you. But there's a moment where you go from addict thinking you're having fun to trying something. And then in the what between the first time or the second, third, fourth, fifth, where you go from thinking you're having fun to eventually addicted. Can what can you tell somebody that just they put their walls up and they're saying, That's a choice, that's not like a real thing, and you can just just stop it. Just stop. What why you're that's a sin, or just don't do that. Like, you know, the um in our last episode we talked a lot about the the heart behind a person and not looking on those outward behaviors. But how can you what could what can you tell somebody that's really not getting how how much harder it is when you're getting to that point?
SPEAKER_01Ugh, it is really hard, honestly. So you didn't just turn it off. Right, you didn't. You you got there and you got you you likely got there pretty quick, honestly. Um I know I did. Um and when people tried to confront me about it, it was like I'm just having fun, you know? Um, and I think a lot of people look at it like that until they fall flat on their face. Uh, and so I think confronting somebody like that, we should confront people, right? It says it in the Bible. We should. We should confront people like that. And then when you can't confront them, it says to take another person with you. And then when that doesn't work, you take more and then you go to the church. Um, but you have to be careful. You you you do, you have to be careful, you have to give people grace, and I think inviting, you know, simply starting a conversation. I know when I worked at the the food bank, you don't know who's coming up there. Is it's not it's not people that are just you know like all Christians and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_02You you have but like you didn't decide to be like an addict from one day to the next.
SPEAKER_01Right. So so therefore you're getting a lot of people who are c and I'm talking from an addiction perspective to all these people who there's a lot of addicts that come up there, and so what I always did would was just a simple conversation, like, hey, how are you doing? Um, and most of the time I'd be like, Hey, can I say a prayer for you today? And some people would turn it down, and sometimes, you know, first of all, I would pray before I even went in there, like for God to show me, like, is there somebody specific to pray for? But also then I would I would just ask somebody, you know, is there something that I can pray for for you today? And a lot of people are okay with that, surprisingly, you know, because um, and I learned to sometimes phrase it as if they said no, and I'd say, okay, is there some way that I can pray a blessing over you? And then they would be like, Okay, yeah. And that would be okay with them because they didn't want you to pray for them specifically, but if you wanted to bless them and just say, you know, whatever sort of blessing over them, you know, that that God blesses them, you know, provides for them, you know, financially, spiritually, you know, however you wanted to pray it, they were okay with that. You know, and sometimes that's all somebody needs. Sometimes I would go in line and pray and loop back around and be like, Hey, you sure you don't want me to pray for you? Like, you okay? Like, okay, I'll get you next time. And like you can tell somebody's demeanor and how they are. And there was one person specifically, I talked to him every single time, and he I was like, he said something about the weather, and I said, Amen, and he's like, I don't say amen. And I said, I'm gonna get you to say amen. And he's like, I think it was like four months later, I said, Okay, I said amen. And he was like, Amen, and I said, Oh, and he said, Oh, you got me, and I said, Okay, well, the next step is a prayer, and he said, Well, maybe one day. So it was like this gradual, like when you can build a relationship with somebody, it's truly about fellowship and building a relationship, but making sure that your foundation is God, you know.
SPEAKER_02That's awesome. And so, like, even in this process, it's like addiction doesn't happen overnight. So, and then recovery doesn't happen overnight. You can't just you're not gonna say, Well, I'm gonna I wanna be better, I wanna be healed, and then you wake up the next day, you're feeling better. Like, yeah, we we we hope, we wish, right? You're right. Like, um even in health too. So like you mentioned, I think you mentioned earlier you ha um had a stroke, but you haven't just had one, you've had two now, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, two.
SPEAKER_02And then um you so you're recovering in like multifaceted ways and just holding on for dear life to saying Jesus take the wheel. Literally. You know, it's not and so I you know, we're talking about these messy stories of faith, and a lot there's so much to um to unpack. So the word recovery to you holds a lot of weight. Not only from the addiction standpoint, but even from a health standpoint. Can you tell me a little bit about like the health things that you've been going through recently?
SPEAKER_01So um it so recently um I had my second stroke. Um and I had that at the end of December of this year. And that that was that was a lot. I I actually from my first stroke, it took me years to recover because it was during COVID. I didn't really have access to a whole lot of PT and OT and speech and all that, so I really had to recover kind of on my own. Um, it was a lot of medication that I did get from doctors just kind of online, you know, like I'd have meetings with them on Zoom, and they'd be like, okay, well maybe this will help, and maybe this will help. You know, I had a lot of hair fall out from that, I had my some of my teeth fall out from that. Um that was rough, and it took me years to to come back from that. I lost a lot of memory from when the kids were younger. Um but I I recovered. That was a God given miracle. Um I I didn't I did not think that I would. Um you know, I I was able to play softball and all that. So when this one happened, it was like I just felt like I recovered, you know. I was at work. Um they told me I couldn't leave uh until I found coverage. Seth happened to work at the same store, my son, and he told me to video him, and so I did, and he's like, Oh no, I'm on my way. And he got there in 20 minutes. It normally takes 30, so he shaved off 10 minutes. And the second I got off the phone with him, I I heard sirens. So he had called the ambulance, and they came in there and my blood pressure was elevated, which it never is. I have low blood pressure, and um I knew I I just I knew I felt it. I was praying already, but my speech was already slurred. I couldn't, it was a very weird feeling because I had s I I stood up and I was very dizzy and nauseous and I could just feel it up the back of my neck. And that was the first question they asked me was can you feel it in your neck? And I was like, Oh man. Like I just knew it. And uh Seth was like, Mom, wait there, wait there until I can see you, and so so I did, and um, you know, he just stood over me and it was like mom, it's gonna be okay. And uh I was like, it is, you know, like just trying to reassure him, but my face is half drooped, and you know, just trying to reassure a kid who who's literally covering has to cover you for work. It's kind of crazy, but they rushed me to the hospital, and uh the doctor told me, you know, hey, you have 10 minutes to decide if you're gonna get this medication, uh, which is TNK, it's it's a clot busting medication. And um, I had just had surgery just a couple weeks prior, and so they didn't know if that was gonna affect anything. And normally with TNK, it's he basically explained it again, but it's a 50-50 chance, you know, it can kill you, it can save your life, and it's just a very potent medication, and so I had a less chance of it saving my life because I had just had surgery and it could make you bleed out. But with that being said, it was like if I didn't have it, I had a higher chance of staying in this state with my face drooping and not being able to no guarantee of recovering. It's yeah, and so you just don't know, and so I said, I can't process this right now. And he said, Well, the doctor looked at me and said, A lot of, you know, if you have a clot in there, it's because it's blocking the oxygen, so it does, you know, it takes away some of that thinking for you. And I told him, I just need to call my dad. Can you talk to my dad? So the doctor got on the phone with my dad and explained everything to him, and I got back on the phone with my dad, and he said, I just lost your brother. I can't I can't lose you. So that was like that was like uh that was one of those moments where it was like um, you know, I knew he's like, I'm just he's like, I can't I can't lose you. God's gonna be with you. We're just all gonna be praying. And the doctor was standing at my bedside and he said, Amen. And I was like, Yeah, that was confirmation from God because like you don't you don't hear doctors say that kind of stuff, you know. Um and and that was a beautiful thing in that moment where it was it was just very it was very uh it was a very very profound moment, you know, because the doctor was just a uh thank you. I just knew that what the doctor was doing was for for my best interest, you know. And um the doctor looked at me and he said, Okay, um I know this is difficult, but I think that you should call your your mom and and your kids and you know, inevitably just let them know what's going on and and tell them that you love them, just in case. And so he was looking out for me, you know, and some people might say, Oh, I I don't like that a doctor would do that, but no, I truly feel like I mean they're doing their best, they don't know they don't know, yeah, and my kids are so resilient because they've seen me go through a lot. Um they've been through a lot, and and I did. I had I had to call them. Seth was very like um, Mom, I'm gonna be there as soon as I can. And Sophia was very okay. Um, you know, and it was just uh I love you is all around. And uh Sophia said, Okay, I'm gonna go dye my hair. And I said, Well, you know what? I'm okay with that, right? Because like us as females, we need to it's it's kind of like that vice, right? Or that addiction. And she just needed to do something in that moment. And I'm like, that's the work she's doing? I don't care, you know, but I'm just laying on the table, but as I'm laying on coping, right? But I'm laying on the table, and they're injecting me with these drugs in that moment because we had already given them the go-ahead, and it's really that moment of God, just please, please allow me to be okay. And I hear a nurse say, Alyssa, because I'm crying. Um, and the nurse was like, he said, Alyssa, don't worry. I'm gonna be here with you. I'm coming in to check on you every 15 minutes, and if you need anything, I'm gonna be right here by you. And it was just God just reassuring me every step of the way because I was once you've been through a stroke, it is it's so scary, even being in the hospital because you have so many people around you, just everybody putting IVs in you. They couldn't get they wanted to put three IVs in me, they could only get one in me. I knew my body was just shutting down, you know.
SPEAKER_02And you're already recovering from a drug addiction.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And so, like, my body just didn't want anything, right? And so then my mom, she was like, What? What? And I'm like, mom, you know, my mom is just very she's going through a lot. So then I'm like, you have to call my dad. I can't do this right now. I'm already emotional, and and I knew she just needed reassurance in that moment, but I couldn't be that one. Um, and so I just I just prayed, and the next thing I knew my dad was running down the hallway, and so was Seth, and it was just like this it was you know, it's just like the Heavenly Father gave me this earthly father who was like I'm gonna be there, you know, and um in that moment that was exactly what I needed, you know, like this strong savior. And I don't even know how my dad got through that quick, but I know that when he drove me to U of M the first time he went 110 miles per hour, so um, I know that he likely did the same thing, and so it was um as hard as that was, it was very beautiful. Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_02And we've got this t crazy timeline of just heartache in your family where so you recovering from a stroke, but in those moments, you're you mentioned your dad losing a child, you lost your brother the previous um a year before that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And going on two years now and losing a sibling, there's nothing like that. So you a few months after that, you were that's when you committed to sobriety um from your addictions.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So losing Caleb was man. When when I lost him or when we lost him as a family that was that was a big hit because he you know, I I think you go through life and and you just you know you're gonna lose your parents one day, right? And and I think uh, you know, my mom had been watching my dogs that day, and and I thought when she had called me that something happened to my dogs, and then my nephew answered the phone, and um and so he was like, Grandma can't talk right now. So then I thought something happened to my mom. And my mom's going through her own uh health issues, and and so I'm like, Okay, well what's going on with her? And he was like, Aunt Alyssa, dad I'm sorry, I did everything I could and my nephew is 17, and I was like, What do you what do you mean? What happened? And he's like, Dad's gone. And I said, What? And he said, Dad died. And I said, I I literally screamed. Um because my my brother was only 40. My brother it was my age that I am now. So that I could have, if anything, I thought I would have been the first to go. Like, let's be honest.
SPEAKER_02Like Yeah, quite a few near-death experiences. Only by God's grace that you're still here.
SPEAKER_01And that that was the question that I asked God so many times. I never, I never doubted God. I've never doubted. And all the times that I've had trials, I've never sat there and said, you know, why why is this happening? Or I know I have said like why is why is that. Yeah, like I've never said, you know, like I've never said, you know, how dare you, God, or anything like that, I should say.
SPEAKER_02But I can cry out and you know, be messed with those feelings. But I have it's not fair.
SPEAKER_01I've never I've never doubted him. I've never doubted, you know, the things that God has done. Like I said, you know, I think that the the things that I've gone through have somehow helped others.
SPEAKER_02In in your personal in your f things and your decisions and your testimony, it makes more sense. Right. You can see that how God can work and how God's m had all of that um can turn around and tell your testimony. But when you lose a sibling, that doesn't make any sense. Right. That's when I I think you're getting at is like that's when you're struggling. You're like wanting to question, be like, well, what what is the point of this?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I just I never I never doubted him, but I always had a lot of questions for God. Like like it didn't make any sense to me.
SPEAKER_02Is there a point here? Why why what's going on?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because I'm like I literally the questions that I had for God were like I had a lot of survivors guilt in in those moments.
SPEAKER_02And you had been sober for a little while before that happened and I tell me a little bit about um your th your thoughts there. We were t touching on it, but you had m recently decided to completely um be sober from all of your th those addictions, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I had recently stopped drinking and I really like when my brother passed away, I isolated a lot. Like I went into pure isolation because I really felt like the people that were reaching out weren't really it was like a you're doing this because why? You know, we weren't friends before. Why are you reaching out to me now? You know? And it wasn't genuine, I felt like. And I'm a very just be genuine with me, just be honest with me. Um, and so to me it was kind of fake, and that made me angry. That made my heart angry. It was like people trying to be nice after and it was the enemy using that against me. It was like I held I held resentment towards these people at that moment.
SPEAKER_02And and you it's hard to say what will what would actually help in versus doesn't, because there's gonna be, you know, a f l quite a few episodes, you know, in the as far as the show goes, of the grief, the um different stuff. And you know, we can say what's something that somebody said that they're trying to be helpful, but it you you know, it right thing, wrong time, good timing, bad timing, you know, all these dynamics of oh the so-and-so's friends are reaching out and they're so sorry, and oh so and so um, you know, our your sibling was such a lovely person. You know, I lost my sister um this past September. It's you know, seven months now, and you know, it it doesn't feel it's one of those things where it time goes on, but you're not it's always the dynamics are always changing where the grief doesn't go away and you sometimes have to you just have to learn to live around it, right? But when you're sober that is and you're really trying to st stay sober.
SPEAKER_01That's when it hits.
SPEAKER_02That like d did you backslide there like that?
SPEAKER_01So I definitely did because it was like I I had to go back up, and that's the thing, you know, when when you're there and you get chips, it makes you feel good, and right? You get the chips, and then you go back up for your 30 day, and you go back up for your 60 day, and you go back up for your 90 day, and you do that up until a year, and then after a year, you get it at 18 months, and then you get it at two years, and then every year thereafter. Um, and that's fantastic, except for when you backslide, you gotta go back up and start all over again. And that really sucks, but at the same time, you're still getting a chip. Yeah, and you're still You're showing up. You you are you go, you show up, you're at the meetings, you hear testimonies, and and you know that you're there. And I knew that I look at it and I'm like, man, you know, I know that I I speak on some things. I was never super vulnerable, but I I tried to be. Somebody told me at one point in time, Alyssa, I know a lot about you, I feel like, but then there's so much I feel like I don't know, and I'm like, absolutely, like that's on purpose. I don't want you to know everything, but I know you know what I want you to know under my circumstances, and that's it.
SPEAKER_02So where are you getting these chips? You're going to AA?
SPEAKER_01I'm going to celebrate recovery.
SPEAKER_02And um, what is what's celebrate recovery?
SPEAKER_01So celebrate recovery, they have it in Saganal. Um, if people are in Saginaw at Old Town Outreach from on Monday nights from seven to nine. Um, and it is a Christian-based recovery program. So you do some praise and worship in the beginning. You um, you know, it I guess I've never been to an AA or an NA meeting or anything like that, but from what I hear, it's kind of similar, it has some similarities.
SPEAKER_02Um but I think probably from more of a Christian, a biblical. It does, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's all biblical. All of our um the things that we say in there all have verses to them. Um and then we break off into groups. It's men in one thing. Um together, you're together in the beginning. We typically have um like a meal together, and then we do our praise and worship and listen to a testimony. Um, and then we go to we split off men in one room and women in another. Uh some some other places don't do that, like so they'll keep the men and women together, but we try to do that for animated.
SPEAKER_02Rub shoulders and help each other and encourage each other.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's awesome. Yeah. And is that just um oh like is that here just here in Saginaw or is that bigger like in m different parts of the state?
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's a great question. Yeah, it's all over. And they have um we have a Facebook page for Saginaw, but they will have them all over. Yeah, you can you can search um celebrate recovery online. They celebrate recovery worldwide has Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um worldwide, okay.
SPEAKER_01I think it's worldwide anywhere. Or at least in at least in the US, but I'm pretty sure it's worldwide.
SPEAKER_02Is it just for, you know, say drugs and alcohol or is it could it be for everything? Like literally Tell me more about what um what else that could look like um to somebody.
SPEAKER_01So I actually personally go for right now I'm working on um situational addictions for my alcohol and um opioids and um things like that, and then um my anger um and my grief. So those four things are the four things, and not everybody has to do them, but I personally, and not everybody will get chips for those. They might decide to just do one chip, but I am a visual person, so I need those chips so that I can go up and get them. Um some people will do it for self-harm, some people will do it for depression, some people will do it for overeating, some people will do it for um whatever you it's any um addiction, any bad habit, any hang-ups that you might have in life, that's their their saying, right?
SPEAKER_02So how kind of how God can meet you in those and help transform transform the habit and um take so are they just taking away the bad habit or are they helping um you replace it with um good things like you know, Bible study or prayer or giving you those co um like what does that look like for healthy coping mech mechanisms?
SPEAKER_01Right. So they always talk about how important it is to have the foundation of God and church um and and fellowship and in your life with recovery.
SPEAKER_02Like that's because godly friends are not gonna put you in those situations.
SPEAKER_01Correct. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Say someone is either like in the throes of addiction or may a loved one is, what can you say um that would just pour life into them or give them hope, give them something to hold on to?
SPEAKER_01I would truly let them know that uh uh no matter what uh uh uh God is within a hand's reach away. God's just a word away. Yeah. Uh you don't have to be perfect. You you could still be uh uh ten toes deep in your addiction, and he's still gonna be there. Um you don't have to fix yourself first, you don't, and that's so huge. That's so huge. Um, you know, starting by going to meeting or going to church and and fixing yourself in the midst of the chaos in the midst of your mess is okay. Like that is okay, and honestly, it's ideal because really why are you how are you going to do that?
SPEAKER_02There's a root of the problem.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02There's deeper things that you're hoping to numb, we're hoping to um fix with bad things that we should be looking to Jesus to fix. Right. That we call on him. Is there um so let's just say we're gonna boil your testimony down and this is a totally um funny visual, but to make maple syrup, you know, we have to boil gallons and gallons of sap to boil it boils down to maple syrup and gets thicker. If we're boiling your testimony down to just a few things, but um, you know, something God brought you out of and then s you know, some you know, you already touched on it, but then something to share with others. But what would you share for like if we're gonna s somebody's looking right now, they're you know, maybe they're j we're we're just um can you uh tell listeners what you what you'd hope that they can learn from you? You know, we can always say, Don't make my same mistakes, but like in a serious note, we what can because we all we all have though you know these messy um messy things, met messy situations, you know, you d we don't want to feel shame that we've had uh that we have a testimony because that it matters that even the nitty gritty that say, Oh, you don't say that, that's in m um that's embarrassing, or oh no, what like it's okay that pe um like let people think things, let people, you know, but for truly, truly, what would you want somebody to take away and learn from um this conversation um things that you've gone through?
SPEAKER_01If if people could take away something, I think the the the truth of it all is really that from an addiction standpoint I would say um that you you have to give people grace without uh without enabling them. Um you know, don't make excuses for people and and don't be afraid to call people out, but do it in in a graceful way. Um pray about it first. That's a huge thing. Um I I think also if somebody could take something away I I would hope that even if it even if your testimony um affects one person, don't be afraid to tell it. Yeah, don't be afraid to tell it because that was me for the longest time. I was afraid that people would hear it and literally say, There is no way that one person can go through so much. I literally thought that. And because it is a lot, it's a lot, and we didn't even get to everything. You know, we didn't even get to everything, and it is so it is a lot, and I know it is, but but that's but God's that's God like that is God, and God will, He will meet you through every single circumstance, and that is so huge to know that the other thing I would say through through everything is to know and believe that God is going to to work the miracles that He is when you fully surrender and you fully believe Yeah He will meet you there, but you have to believe it. You can't just surrender and then go, okay, that's it. And you can't just believe it without surrendering.
SPEAKER_02Continue to actively trust and be a participant in that. So what verse, um, what verse or verses would you say are like lifelines to you that you come back to over and over that have helped you?
SPEAKER_01So we talked about the Romans 12, 19 through 21. That's that's a huge one to me um for my anger.
SPEAKER_02Um, and we didn't even get into all that, but like God can um take revenge that it's not our place, yeah, to live live at peace with others.
SPEAKER_01Correct, yeah, that's that one. Um, so my 911 verse, and that was as a go-to, yes. That's a that's a stable verse because um Jeremiah 33 33 3, call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know, right? It talks about calling out to God and what a good verse. Like that, it is a like it's a 9-1-1 verse.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I saw on TikTok that that's you know God's phone number.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, right. And and it is so true too, because I have and I remember that in my times when I'm like trying to call some I a lot of times in my grief, honestly, that was that one verse because I would call people needing to talk to them because I would be sobbing and sobbing, and nobody would pick up the phone, and I'm like, you know, my mom was busy and my dad was busy and my f my friends. I don't really have a a big group of friends. I I keep my circle very small, but I would call and call, and I'm like, why is nobody answering? It's because God wanted to speak to me in that time, and so I would look at that verse, and that was that was the one. The other two, I would say Matthew 6 33 about um but seek first the kingdom.
SPEAKER_02Like that was because we touch base on the what what are we numbing, what are we trying to um fix is that's not the kingdom, that's the distractions, that's trying to cover up the the real heart, right? Yeah, that's trying to say put a band-aid on a bul bullet wound, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's funny. I my counselor kept telling me s the same uh scenario, like putting a or maybe I wrote that down for my book or something. I don't know, but that has been written somewhere and I think it might have been down in my book.
SPEAKER_02Cause it's like you know, we were talking you're talking about grace and um you know you can under understanding somebody without enabling them, right?
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_02Because clearly, you know, we're not we're not even scratching the surface. Like there are things that, you know, you want to escape, things that you don't want to think about. I think of, you know, scrolling social media and not wanting to f form my own coherent thoughts or looking to ChatGPT to help me be creative when I'm like God really blessed me with creativity and that um longing to use words to be a blessing to others. But um can you share another one? Um, even maybe from Ephesians that has stood out to you? Like um ironically, when you s um you sent me a few references and that has been um that was that's my dad's um benediction verse when every every Sunday that's what he ends his sermon with.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Ephesi uh Ephesians 32, now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine according to his power that is at work within us.
SPEAKER_02Yep, and it continues a little bit more as far as the the um encouragement, but that um you even explain that in even a different way that I've even thought of it. But um one more thing, and I th um this has just been so good to talk to you. Um when you hear the name a messy amen, what does that make you think of?
SPEAKER_01Oh that's such a that's a good question. But I true like my life, my life, literally, um, but truly, um God's grace, yeah, uh, God's grace, his mercy, his everlasting love for us.
SPEAKER_02Coming to him when we don't feel yeah, when we don't feel put together.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh, all the time. And it was so hard for me before. I mean, I I make sure now it's not just when I'm in need, you know. I make sure that I'm doing it, you know, in the shower or in my car or somewhere where I'm not gonna fall asleep, you know. So it's always having conversations.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like and and even if it's just going on a walk and talking to him.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's huge. That's really you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And bringing it bringing it so that it's not a cover-up. Being so honest with God and just saying, God honesty, vulnerability, that's what this all okay.
SPEAKER_02That's what this is all about. So um as we close, um I appreciate all that you've shared, and this has been so good because the the funny thing about God is He brings so um so many different people into our lives that um can pour into us and that we can learn from and we can rub shoulders with and even piggybacking off of episode two. I wasn't gonna um say this, but I think it's so funny, is um coming having different upbringings. And so when my friend um shared with um doing street evangelism and talking to people, you know, she's c um used to say, Oh, I could have never, you know, wouldn't have never known what to say. It's what I said, quit doing that, that's a sin. Or you know I don't I'm I'm sure you were just cracking up. So like this has been such a you know a deep conversation about God's transformation and you know, and you we are new creation in Christ. Um that you know 2 Corinthians 5.17, you know, we're made new. And so I'm going to um close this out and just uh I just I would love to continue to linger in all that. But um as we um finish up, I just want you guys to all know that this messy crazy story is another example of God's grace and h how much he loves us to pull us out of the depths and the um sin sins and all that. But as you um if this conversation has blessed you, I want um please feel uh share with a friend and there is going to be uh accompanying devotional on the Substack and find the show anywhere you listen um at Messi Amen. And thank you guys so much for tuning in and we'll see you next time.