A Messy Amen
A Messy Amen welcomes you into the conversations you might not be having on Sundays. Do you ever feel like you want to get to know people more but you get the weird sense that no one can relate to your struggle? You show up to church, sing, listen to the sermon, and go home feeling forgotten, isolated, and frustrated? Here we will be sharing stories that help women of faith feel less alone. We will be honest in ways that may normally feel foreign and share how we hold on to faith and trust God in the ups and downs.
A Messy Amen
From Angry Child to Child of God
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What do you do when the people who were supposed to point you to God... made you want to walk away from Him instead?
That is exactly where Elizabeth Androl found herself. She grew up in church, loved it, had her name engraved on her very first Bible. But between a legalistic environment, and adults who contradicted everything she believed, she did what a lot of young girls do. She stopped. She looked for answers in other places, went down some dark roads, and spent years not really knowing who she was or where she belonged.
This conversation goes there. The depression, the anxiety, the suicidal thoughts, the new age rabbit hole. The silence she felt she had to keep. And then, a Bible left open on the floor to Psalm 84 that she doesn't remember opening.
Elizabeth shares what it looked like to come back to faith as an adult, find a church that finally felt like home, and have a moment at the altar that broke something loose she had been carrying for years.
Her words say it better than I ever could. She went from being an angry child to feeling like a child of God.
If you have ever felt like you were too far gone, too confused, or too messy for God to find you, this one is for you.
Scriptures mentioned in this episode:
Psalm 84 | Hebrews 12:1-2 | Romans 12:1-2 | Philippians 4:8 | Jeremiah 29:11 | 2 Corinthians 10:5
HERE is the song I couldn't remember the words of, the bridge is so good!
Find us on socials @amessyamenpod
Life isn't always Sunday best. Sometimes your faith is put to the test. If you feel unseen and all alone, it's time for stories you've never known. Hello, welcome back to MSCA Men. This is the podcast where we talk about the good, the bad, and the holy parts of real life. I'm Michelle Torrey and I'm so glad you're here. Today joining me I have Elizabeth Andrew. How are you doing? I'm great, how are you? Good. Thank you so much for being here. I'm glad to be here. So we are gonna play a quick icebreaker game. And so they're in the book of Psalms. There's 150 chapters. So pick a number between one and 150. Let's do 84. 84. Okay, we're gonna open to that. Okay, so we're gonna do a quick wrong um we are gonna do a quick little um reading. That's only 12 verses, so I'm gonna read verses one through six, and if you can read seven through twelve, we might jump right into the show with um maybe a little testimony. Okay. This says Psalm eighty four, it says, How lovely is your dwelling place, O Lord of hosts. My so my soul longs, indeed it faints, for the courts of the Lord. My heart and my flesh sing for joy to the living God. Even the sparrow finds a home and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may lay her young at your at your altars, O Lord of hosts, my king and my God. Happy are those who live in your house, ever singing your praise. Happy are those whose strength is in you, and in whose heart are the highways to Zion. As they go through the valley of Baca, they make it to a place of springs, and the early rain also covers it with pools.
SPEAKER_03They will continue to grow stronger, and each of them will appear before God in Jerusalem. O Lord God of heaven's armies, hear my prayer. Listen, O God of Jacob, O God, look with favor upon the king, our shield. Show favor to the one you have anointed. A single day in your courts is better than a thousand anywhere else. I would rather be a gatekeeper in the house of my God than live the good life in the homes of the wicked. For the Lord God is our son and our shield. He gives us grace and glory. The Lord will withhold no good thing from those who do what is right. O Lord of Heaven's armies, what joy for those who trust in you.
SPEAKER_00Awesome, thank you. Of course. So if we're, you know, being spontaneous, is there anything that jumps out at you when you read that? So hmm. You never read this before, have you? No, never.
SPEAKER_03Uh the biggest thing that kind of jumps out to me is really of course the first couple verses. Um I have a little bit of a story that goes along with this scripture. So I had come back to God after years of not be having a relationship with God, and I was really just wondering, like, am I doing the right thing? You know, like I don't know if I really believe this yet, and if I like I'm still questioning. And one night I was going through like books on my bookshelf, and I had found an old Bible I had as a kid. It was my first ever Bible that I was ever bought. It had like my name engraved on it, and I was just flipping through it and I'd set it down. Well, the next day I was going through my living room and I looked down at the Bible, and I don't remember leaving it open, but it was open to Psalms 84.
unknownWhat?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I just remember reading it, and even though like I it was a King James Version, and I'm it's hard a little harder for me to understand the King James Version at some parts, just with all the ths and thous and everything. But even with there being a little bit of a language barrier there, I had absolute like goosebumps. Like every hair on my body stood straight up, and I was like, okay.
SPEAKER_00That was yeah, okay. So what phrase in the first um couple verses? Um what part of it?
SPEAKER_03With my whole being body and soul, I will shout joyfully to the living God.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Mine, yeah, mine says the that's really good. I'm gonna highlight that. Also, I was going to t put some notes in um my Bible later, and I see that you had some washi tape. Do you mind grabbing me a one or two of those?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I've got quite a few. Is there any particular ones that you're wanting?
SPEAKER_00Um, I don't know, surprise me.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Thank you. This one's actually really pretty. Um, so that was um, you know, party so good. Um that was part of your testimony um being um coming back um to church after um not going for a while. Yeah. So then w so then you were in church growing up then?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00If you had a Bible with your name on it?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up, um, I'm of course, as you know, I'm from Kentucky, and I grew up um apostolic Pentecostal. Um and especially the church that I went to, it was fairly more leaning more legalistic in a lot of ways, which it's all I knew, so I didn't really question it, but it was it was also hard to understand for someone that young. Um but I loved it. It was, I mean, that's my entire that's best memories I have as a kid, is in that church. Um but I was I mean, I was dedicated in that church. I got baptized in that church twice. They had to do it a second time.
SPEAKER_00First time didn't take like just a pen. We won't get into that.
SPEAKER_03We won't get into that. Um but yeah, that church is very special to me. But um, after a while, it just got to a point where I had adults in my life that want some were going one way with like if you don't do this part of like the legalistic rules we have, you're going to hell. And then the other side where it was like, well, if you believe this way, you know, that's silly, and there's a reason that this exists and not your God that you've only ever known, like the only thing you've ever known your entire life is wrong. And so after a certain point, like I tried to fight against it for a few years and kind of still go with God, but after a while of just being constantly just having that in my ear as a really young, impressionable kid, I was like, I've it in my brain, it was better for me to just not have anything to do with it, to just not have to hear about it anymore. Because I couldn't really enjoy it anymore.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. So you instead of having like two extremes, you kind of try to be like, well, I'm not gonna worry about any of this, and I just cannot. Exactly. Like, I can't even.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I was just really trying to keep the peace. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So, but you um remember enjoying um going to church and um and having um the faith in those early years.
SPEAKER_03Oh yes, yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00So tell me about a time then more recently, because um about how throughout the um that season coming back to church then. Okay. So you had a um a little bit about the Psalm 84, but then can you dig a little deeper and um share some more?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so right before I'm gonna set this down for a second. Right before that happened, when I was still living in Kentucky with my now husband, um, we were driving down the road, okay? And I don't know what possessed me to do it, but I was like, let me show you some songs that I used to sing in church all the time. So these were songs that like I had listened to over and over again and I had put on Praise You in the Storm by Casting Crowns. Um and for some reason it was just floodgates, just absolutely bawling. And I was like, something is grabbing me right now, like I can't I can't stop. So I immediately texted my grandmother and I was like, Can I come to church with you? Because she still went to the church I grew up in. She was like, Well, yeah, I'm not gonna tell you no. Of course not. No, of course not.
SPEAKER_00Why would you ask me that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So I went to church with her and again floodgates as soon as I walked in. And then a couple nights after it was when the Psalms 84 happened, when I was still questioning, like, Am I doing the right thing? And it was just like, had that verse, and it's still crazy to think about. It's been a couple years since then.
SPEAKER_00What was his response to that? What did he have an emotional response to the song or just to you crying or my husband?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. He really so if I had any idea, I would say he probably like he really didn't understand what was going on. Like, what is wrong with this chick? Yeah, what have I got myself into? He really didn't understand what was going on. He was just trying to be as supportive as he could and learn as he went along.
SPEAKER_00They're there, Shelly's here. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, he's been super supportive and he's grown himself throughout this whole experience, and I'm just glad to have him here with me.
SPEAKER_00So you were in Kentucky for years and now you're in Michigan. I am. So can you tell me a little bit too about just how you found our church? Because you know, it's just been such a fun happenstance that you know when I we had um the women's coordinator um text me, be like, I need to introduce you to someone, and she'll like to join your small group. I'm like, sure, more the merrier. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So I had kind of had thoughts of wanting to get back into church. I went to my childhood church for a while, but I felt like I really wasn't growing much there anymore. So I wanted to find a new trench we once we moved up here. And so Evan, my husband, and I sat down and we started kind of church shopping. And everywhere I was looking, I was like, okay, the service is good, but the music isn't. Or the music's good, but the service isn't. And then we found like we had searched a million times with the same churches, and we couldn't see Grace Valley until the last time we looked, and it just popped up.
SPEAKER_00It was hiding.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And so uh we looked up the live stream and we watched it. And my husband, who's a little Jared.
SPEAKER_00Um, my my husband runs the live stream, so I was giving him a little pat.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Way to go. So um Evan, who's a lot harder, like not to sound make my husband sound bad, but he's a little harder to convince than I am. He grabbed my arm while listening to the live stream, and he said, This is the one we're going to. It's like, okay, I'm with you, but yeah. And so he, yeah, he was the main factor in us going there, and we've loved it ever since we started going Easter Sunday.
SPEAKER_00And what a wonderful day to be there.
SPEAKER_03Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00I love Easter at our church, and plus that is really my prayer. So I help with the cameras, and that is really my prayer that somehow the Holy Spirit can work s um even above and beyond the our sanctuary, that people at home can like understand how we feel there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because I'll be honest, I don't feel the same way at home if I was ever watching it online. It can be, you know, I'm distracted. There's, you know, well, let's get up and go get a snack because who would know any different, or like, you know, blah blah blah. Yeah. And oh let me go pour some more coffee, or you know, f I I mean, we I don't even know when the last time we missed a Sunday was, but um maybe oh yeah, we did we were visiting a few um few months ago some um for a concert over on the other side of the state.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But that is my genuine desire, is that that fe um that God can work even through the technology because that is what um my husband's been so passionate about when he was in college, and then now um he spends a lot of time working um on that, and then you know, he's my executive producer as well. So it um it helps to have the experience and that knowledge, but even more so that God can work through that and that br brought you to church. Yeah. So sweet. And um, so what was it like? You talked about um, you know, stepping away from faith, um like as a you know, young adult, maybe like teenager or so. Yeah. And that like so what was it like growing up then? It was ripped the band-aid off.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. It had I mean there were plenty of ups and downs, but I throughout most of my teen years I was very, very depressed and very anxious. Um dealt with a lot of like suicidal thoughts, um, and just was very just confused and angry all the time um just at the world and everybody. And it was a really rough time and I had no real kind of identity, and I was looking to other things to find my identity because I didn't know my real identity.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, this is you know, not something to shy away from because you know, as Christians, a lot of times mental health is so taboo. Oh, don't talk about that. Yeah, you're not allowed to have struggles. No, that's what this that's with a point, right? Yeah. I I don't want people to think that they're doing something wrong if they're a Christian, if their things aren't going their way, or if they don't feel like being happy, or you know, whatever the case may be, that oh, well, if if I'm a Christian, then why is this bad thing happening or why is this? Because that's literally not how it works, and that's not fair to so many people, especially young people. Right. So like tell me, um, tell me more about that because um let's break that s like it's kind of like breaking the silence and you know, just being honest with the struggle. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So not only just growing up as a kid and like from a child from divorce when I was six years old, um, but I was also there were adults in my life, many like one or two that were quite honestly textbook narcissists. And so having to learn how to deal with that and live with that at such a young age and going through my teen years with that, just constantly walking on eggshells, not really feeling like I had a safe place to go. Like I had my mom who was my safe person, but overall I would my anxiety would start right before the school bell rang. I would be like, what am I coming home to? And that brought so much unease to me, and just even to this day as an adult, I'm not in that situation anymore, and I'm in a loving marriage, but I'm like it's waiting for that shoe to drop.
SPEAKER_00Like you always feel like um you did something wrong. Exactly. Or you m you're worried what somebody's thinking, or you Or I have to be in charge of the situation at all times.
SPEAKER_03I have to make sure this happens this way, this happens that way.
SPEAKER_00I have to Or you're apologizing even if you're perfect, like Exactly. So I love you so much. You don't have to you don't have to be sorry. You're wonderful. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03But it's just all of that and having that environment and not really being encouraged or almost being put down for wanting to believe in God the way I wanted to. Because it was always presented like, oh, we want you to believe in something. Like we want you to believe in that there's something, but if you but if you believe this way, if you go to this church, well, that's just silly. And it was it was a weird mind game, kind of. And so just look at thinking back on it, it's just wild to me. Um sorry, I'm trying to gather my can't even imagine.
SPEAKER_00Like I've bounced around to a few different denominations. My parents are divorced as well. Yeah. And but my dad is a um pastor, and so I knew, you know, pretty um traditional, conservative, um, you know, Methodist um doctrines, and you know, it's fun. Like we had a good um, it was a good time. But then I gr visited some like Lutheran churches, and then my mom goes to a Presbyterian evangelical Presbyterian, which, you know, sounds like what uh it doesn't that doesn't like I don't know I don't know enough about pr being Presbyterian to um like talk about it, but I know that I love her church. And I if I lived any c like lived closer, I like I would go there on a regular basis. There's a lot of nice people. And it it's interesting that you know, m all these man-made denominations, you g there's like there's different thought camps of theology and you know, there's a lot of people, you know, there's a lot of, you know, commentaries and you believe this, this or this or this and this, and you're just like, I don't know, that doesn't make I uh Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, if and so if somebody growing up was telling you oh being a Christian's silly, um you shouldn't believe in that and you should you know not believe in anything or you know, you're gonna be confused.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. And especially like hearing that at like seven, eight years old, and going through my teen years with that, I'm like, well, obviously like I can't go to church, so let's find other things to kind of find my identity with because I didn't I didn't know any, like I had lost that part of myself, so I was trying to fill that void and was just trying to fit in with everyone else at school and it was just not a good time. No.
SPEAKER_00So were you praying or were you just like um kind of going through the motions? I like what happened like before you kind of like let go of it all. Not that not that it like had was like even a like a hundred percent your fault because like you were so young. Yeah. And with the a lot of the pressure, I'm just you know, curious cause like what that looked like, you know, could or cause then you're just you're going through that pro um i that struggle, and then you you know, well like, well I guess I'll try this.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So if I can look back on it, I I was still trying to go to church, but it was almost like I c I would go to church and I I'd come home and I felt like I couldn't talk about it. And that was rough.
SPEAKER_00And it it was something you're supposed to feel comfortable with and want to share. And want to share the gospel. Exactly. But you can't spread it in your own home. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03And that was really, really hard. Um sorry.
SPEAKER_00That's okay. It's called a messy amen for a reason. Yeah. Not because life's easy. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, and that just like I said, it caused me to not really like it l made me lose my identity and made me just more confused than anything for years. And it wasn't until the last couple of years that I've been able to feel somewhat comfortable in my own skin because I've been able to come back to God. And I was actually something recently that happened, and it was just like such a release for me being able to just come back to that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So let's go back to um you're looking for identity, you're looking for something to believe, um, you are confused. What kind of things are you looking at at that point? So um that's not an easy time for a young woman.
SPEAKER_03No. So at the time, it was like this was towards mid-late teens, something that had really just kind of boomed on social media was the whole like tarot kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00New age.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, exactly. And I got into that because I was like, well, this is this is giving me some kind of answer. This is giving me some kind of feeling. And if I can't really talk about this here, maybe I can talk about this. And so I got into that, and it just went down this dark hole and I became more depressed than I was before. Exactly. And it nothing was feeling that hole that I had. And it was just a really, really dark time for me. And the feeling like those suicidal thoughts that I had had when I was a little younger started to come back, and I was like, Oh, this is wonderful. And no looking back now, I feel like that was really just the enemy attacking me. Me because he knew that I didn't know who I was. And was like, well, if you don't if she doesn't know who she is, let's get her while she's down.
SPEAKER_00So I I'm just going to add here because that like you know, on top of, you know, the that heartbreaking aspect of it is so important, you know, being women is that to have someone pouring into us when we're young and what happens when we that's not there. So like I a lot of times I'll be so tired at the end of the day, you know, we you see me as, you know, b babysitting and then hanging out and getting to know each other. You know, there's t times and I feel patient and there's times and I don't. But I do my best to instill in my four-year-old that, you know, she's God's little princess and that he loves her and she says, and Jesus is my savior. And I'm just like, and obviously she doesn't understand it. Like she duh like she can tell you about it, but like I'm waiting for it to click a little bit more. I'm you know, thinking in the next couple years, you know, that she could say, Well, I'm a Christian, because like we've had little kids at church get baptized, you know, and it makes me just like, ah, it's so cute. Um, but it's like really special to n like to see that happen. And it's not to say that you know, we can't start fresh, because that's c obviously what the Bible that's so much of the gospel is to be an um a new creation. And doesn't matter what age, but to see that pain and that hurt of not having somebody tell you that. Yeah, you know, makes me wish I knew you when you were younger, be like, Well, you are loved. 'Cause I like that's you know, that's what we are talking about. Um, you know, in our last up in episode six is um youth when they um incarcerated youth, they need someone to believe in them to speak life over them and I um and teach them about their identity in Christ because they're they've looked for answers in the wrong place. They've made choices that were not, you know, godly. And they they don't might not even know about it because no one in their life has told them they don't have a father in the home for w you know, you name X, Y, and Z reasons, they're in a tough spot. So now that you're you know, you were in a tough spot, maybe not juvenile detention, but that brokenness it might as well feel like a prison when you're, you know, don't know where to turn, you're feeling lost. Like, can you give me an example of feeling this type of way in the past and then how you feel now coming back to Christ?
SPEAKER_03The best way that I can put it was I went from being an angry child to feeling like a child of God.
SPEAKER_00That's so good.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like we no matter what age we are, that to lean in our heavenly father and to know that he's where we're ultimately found um, you know, that hope and peace and having a true inheritance of heaven and that we you know, like we're all his sheep and all you know, whatever we can go with so many metaphors here. Um but that's so good. Cause and you're angry because you're you got all these people contradicting um what you're what you wanted to believe, and you have like don't you know, people are mad, people are you know yelling at you or being mean or what you know, all the things. And so you're like, okay, what do I do now? And that that's how you go down this rabbit trail and you're just like not sure that was a good hand. Exactly, yeah. So after all this um, you know, emotions, ups and downs, um, now finding a new church to call home, can you tell me like a recent testimony or a God moment that you've had?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so this one was really just awesome, crazy, everything. Um We were in church, of course, and we had just been going through the worship songs and everything. And I had just been praying, like, God, fill this place with your presence, touch somebody, reveal yourself to them. And I've been praying that over and over for almost like half an hour, maybe. And this lady in the back of the church started calling out loudly within the church and was saying, I'm trying to reach out to you, but you need to reach out to me. And I felt like I had like ice water poured over me, like it was just that shock. And I reached over to you, and I was like, because a little background on that before I go any further. I do it every time I tell the story because it's just so good. Um, I had not been able to cry for a while, and I'm a big crybaby, so this was uh not normal for me. So um I I couldn't cry, and I was like, what's going on? And I'd been feeling these feelings of like something in the way between me and God. And I was like, what am I doing wrong? What like what am I doing this wrong already? Like what is what's going on? And it was was made very clear to me that was not God, nothing wrong with like God's not reaching out to me. It was me getting in my own way of getting to God. I wasn't reaching out to him, I'm expecting him to do all of the work. I need to reach out to him, you know. Um, which God is capable of all things, but there's some things we do need to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps, you know.
SPEAKER_00He's always there, we just need to turn around sometimes in the right direction.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. But as soon as the lady in the church, going back to it, um squirrel.
SPEAKER_00Like someone given like a prophetic word, right?
SPEAKER_03Exactly. So she gave the prophetic word, and something said, like, I need to go to the altar. So I turned around and grabbed you, and I was like, I need to go to the altar. And as soon as we went down there.
SPEAKER_00Can we add that I was in my own little world after, you know, oh she's like, okay, lol. And I'm just not even there.
SPEAKER_03I'm like, I'm just gone. She's in her own world. I'm like, I fall to my knees at this altar, and I am bawling my eyes out. The floodgates open.
SPEAKER_00There's um, there's Captain Obvious, and then there's Captain Oblivious. Yeah, exactly. I have no idea what's going on. A few like it had probably been a good, you know, three or five minutes. I don't even know. At least a few several minutes went by. I look down, you're like shaking. So um Savannah's next to um next to you praying, like praying for you. I'm like, uh, what did I miss?
SPEAKER_03I'd already speak started speaking in tongues. I missed that too. Yeah, exactly. It got to the point where the pastor started coming on stage slowly was like, Am I good to start? And you guys had to like drag me out.
SPEAKER_00Like, can you get up? We need to get out of here. You're causing it to no one. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03Can you do this somewhere else?
SPEAKER_00Like, what are you doing? And like the singing is over. We have to go. Yeah, the time and place. So, like, that was not like something like normal for you. Like, that was special, and that was you know incredible for you know us to witness that like something clearly was going on there. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it was just that moment was such it filled me with such just relief.
SPEAKER_00Because you're you weren't crying because it was they sung the wrong song.
SPEAKER_03No, at least not this time.
SPEAKER_00So like I wanted them to sing the other one. Exactly. Holy, they never take my request. Not karaoke, Elizabeth.
SPEAKER_03Fucking dream. But no. Oh, just to get back on topic. Um somewhat get my brain back in order. Mashed potatoes. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00It's okay. Um I had like that moment was just absolute relief because going through all of those years of- And was that the second time the week after um Easter or the uh two weeks after Easter?
SPEAKER_03It was a couple weeks after Easter. Like Yeah, I had after a couple weeks after starting at Grace Valley. Yeah. So sorry, I keep going.
SPEAKER_00No, you're fine.
unknownIt's not about me.
SPEAKER_03No, you're fine. Um stop apologizing, huh? You're perfect.
SPEAKER_00So now I lost my track. So you that moment was, you know, you had these emotions, you felt relief.
SPEAKER_03I felt relief. Because after all those years of not feeling like I could have that relationship, being able to have that relationship, not just have that relationship, but to submit in that relationship.
SPEAKER_00To finally be like like who God wants you to be.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. It was just a like a magical moment, and I was still shaking like afterwards, like for a while. Oh, it was beautiful.
SPEAKER_00It was that moment to me. That's so good. A lot of times, I part of me feels like I'll have a similar experience in my pew as I would at the front. But that but you did it again on Wednesday. I did. And so the other day you're like, we're all going, and we had five adults just like walk straight up to the front, and we're I think we're basically in front of um our senior pastor and his wife, and I'm like, I can just imagine like maybe the like maybe I'm full of myself, but maybe they were like you know, people saw that as a witness that, you know, oh yeah, we can go up there sometimes. And like and it feels special too, even though I go from you know, one s one tone of singing voice to the other, and I can never figure out if either of them are in tune or not. And um that's not the greatest in the world. But I'm trying to s I'm singing this song to the Lord. Exactly. That's what the Bible says, right? It's not about in tune.
SPEAKER_03But it's joyful noise, not a pretty one.
unknownThank you.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. It's okay. It's fine. It's fine.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00So you know, but I wouldn't if you're um describe yourself as an angry and depressed child, I wouldn't say you are no. No. Maybe maybe we have other things that you know that we have to deal with, like, you know, but if we wanna, um I like to do scripture verses that go along with the different episodes. And so what just came popped in my head was ha like we want to have the mind of Christ. So I'm going to I'm gonna go on a treasure hunt. And if you open up the back of that Bible, which is also mine, haha. No, like find if it says something about um like either taking every thought captive or um if you are audio only right now, you're missing us um cluelessly flipping through Bibles. Um that see, can you hear? I'm just kidding. Terrible editing. That's gonna be make it tricky. But um, so but then I'll just say we take every thought captive and we're transformed. Oh, in Romans, you can you know, look up, you could just I think it's in um Romans chapter 12 verses 1. I bel you know don't quote me, but quote me on that. Um that I believe says we're tr towards the end there. Listen, Linda. Um like so transformed by the renewing of our mind. So anytime somebody says, Well, I was born this way, or I'm just or I'm just lazy, or I'm just um grumpy, or I'm just this or this or this, that's not how we're meant to stay. Or like when Jesus tells the disciple that they need to be born again, so it doesn't matter how we're born, because we're all meant to be born again in Christ. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And to like we're so there's a so funny you said that because I have been thinking about this all day. And it's I can't remember where it was from. It may even just be from the chosen. Who knows?
SPEAKER_00Um but it was there a translation out yet of just the script of switching. Exactly. I need to have it. I found a book at the library today, it was The Chosen from the show. I'll have to show that.
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh. We need to come back. Okay. So it was just basically saying, like God loves us for how we are. Absolutely. And God takes us as we are. Yes. But no one's the same after meeting God.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So good. Um, and plus uh God loves us, but then it's our love for him that changes us. That changes us, and that, you know, he can he comes for us. He like we could say we're the the one he you know, he's gonna leave the ninety-one ninety-nine sheep for the lost one, right? So he's coming after our hearts. But then our love for him is what makes us want to do things. Absolutely. Because we were studying Galatians in our um women's group, and it was talking about, you know, it's not Jesus plus legalism, it's not Jesus plus rules, it's not Jesus plus anything else that gives us salvation. But when we talk about faith and how we live our lives, it's faith and works because our love for God and our faith in him is what encourage like is what you know makes makes us want to do those things.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00So you can't say, Well, I love God, but then being nasty, you know, nasty driver, cutting people off, or f um, you know, being a rude to a cashier or a waitress, or you know, having a bad attitude, or like n all the time screaming at like your kids or you know, being being an a-hole, like, excuse me, that you know, but like we can't the the point is we're not going to be able to do those things and then say we love God. Yeah. Because if we truly love God, we're gonna repent and then move forward. So if the the other day I was so proud of myself because I was so irritated, um, just having a like, you know, I'll feel say it's stuck in the yuck kind of um parenting day and just grumpy. But I never screamed, I never yelled, I got, you know, flustered and a little bit, you know, uh impatient and kind of gritting my teeth a little bit. But I've been working on, you know, a lot of times there's arguments about spanking. We're not gonna get into that, but I um decided sometime last year that I was um that I was just gonna say that's not gonna make do anything and it's not gonna make anything better. So I've been really working on try like trying to get on um Lydia's level and explain things to her, and then if that's not working, then okay, we're just gonna go do what we're do what I said, and then you're just cu come with me, we're brushing your teeth right now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So a lot of times our parenting um will get too tired and we don't feel like you know doing the bedtime routine. So then we won't say, Well, you can stay up a little later, a little later, a little later, and then by the time we're actually get up to do the thing, she's you know too far gone, and we can tell, well s we messed up. Yeah. But, you know, as we're talking about our mind and struggling with, you know, common things, you know, when we're angry, anxious, uh jealous, you know, comparing ourselves to other people online or um at church or whoever. We can't do that for one, because you don't know what somebody else is not telling you. Exactly. And then for two, when we want to be in Christ, it it's Christ and also in us. So it's uh uh there was a um of course it's um we're going back and forth, but then when I was thinking about I was about to tell you, there's a common thing right now, it's like, oh, you're worthy, you're enough, and you know, wanting to what we need to do self-care. And it's all about us and our mental well-being. Like, mm-hmm. So we're never enough and we're never going to be because Jesus um makes us enough. Jesus is enough and he's what um he he's important.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00So he's the he is what we are um longing for. He satisfies our hearts and every single desire, and it's nothing that we have done or ever will do that can save us, right?
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00So our strivings, like there's a song last night, and it's literally um, you know, m the bridge goes, if you want to feel, you know, I'm gonna link that YouTube video in the show notes because I can't think of the words right now. But um one of the girls was um start the bridge. It's like if you want to feel justified, uh, you know, you know, transformed, all these things, righteous, yeah, that one that one, whatever that song is. Um I feel like a silly goose. But when that bridge starts, um, when they were going on that, that's what makes me emotional. It's because we're not striving because we can't earn our salvation, we can't earn God's love. We're responding to what he's already done, and then everything that we whenever we've sinned, it doesn't matter how much we've sinned because the forgiveness doesn't run out, it's just the posture of our heart and if we're repentant. Because people say, Well, can you lose your salvation or can you do this? I'm like, that's not technically like that's a whole people argue that, right? Yeah. But my question is, I would just say um to somebody who says, Oh, can I lose my salvation? It's like, what is your um, where is your heart? And what are you are you do you want to repent? Do you want to turn from your sin? Or do you want to say, I grew up that way as a Christian, but I just want to um, you know, do all this bad stuff and I don't care?
SPEAKER_03Exactly.
SPEAKER_00So if you don't if you don't care, then and you're callous, your um hearts, you know, turn cold, and you're just apathetic about all of it, then I don't know, like I wouldn't know what to tell you. But if you're asking, that might mean that you are can have a broken heart, or like you could say, Lord, break my heart for what breaks yours, and repent of your sin and like turn away from that, then I would say, You're you're clear, you're you're good. Like the I think you're like it's a heart thing because w what are your hope? Like, are you saying that because you want to, you know, do bad things? Are you saying that because you are um want to repent and you have a you know, an honest heart?
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. And that's one thing I'm glad about even though there were some things that brought some confusion from it, um I am glad that I grew up the early years in the church the way I did, and I had my grandmother pouring into me in that way. Um she's literally an angel here on earth. Um so because having that background and having her speak life over me even through those years, it gave me that seed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and eventually you remembered exactly so you can go back to that now. Exactly. So it was not like never and you're never too far gone. No for God. Exactly. You know, no matter what we've done, you can't sin too much for all you have to do is turn around. Yeah. I um mentioned this at a um small group one night and it was ta we were talking about um sin, and I said, you know what? And it felt like God, you know, gave me the vision of Mario Kart. So we're r um and in um Hebrews I wanna say or Philippian. Um I'm not on my game tonight. But the um verse about running the race. Hold on, now that's gonna bother me. I'm gonna say that can help you.
SPEAKER_03Probably not. Run the race, we don't know.
SPEAKER_00Literally had all these verses taped on like in the fitness room in my at my college, um, in like in my dorm hall, and I cannot remember where it was now. But it was talking about we will run the race that's set for us, and then there's you know, different ones that Paul mentions about it. But so in Mario Kart you're racing vehicles, and there's gonna be the other racers in which this in this analogy is Satan, that's gonna throw the mushro like the shells at you that's wants to trip you up. So you spin in a circle, but then you've stop you stop spinning in a circle, which would be the sin, and then you can go straight again. Exactly. So we're n um at when we're walking with the Lord, there will be times that we're trip spinning and we're tripping up and we make a mistake. But it's are we gonna keep racing? Are we gonna keep going and point in the right direction and keep going in our race? Or sometimes if someone's not really bad at that game, they can be going the complete opposite direction and not or not even on the right track.
SPEAKER_03But the great thing about God, and I mentioned this the other night at a women's group, um I know before, like in even at the beginning of me like coming to Grace, I would say things like, I know God's sick and tired of hearing me apologize again. You know, there's gotta be a limit to this at some point, you know. Um but knowing what I know now and like going through what I've gone through in the last few like month like last month or so, even like for one, no, there's not. There's not a limit. Never too much, thankfully. Um but to think because God knows the beginning, middle, and end of this race, right? Yeah. And to think that he didn't take into account every single time we'd hit a shell or a banana peel, still using your Mario Kart reference. So And it you to think he wouldn't know where every single one of those things were placed and take account for them when he made that ultimate sacrifice is selling him short.
SPEAKER_00And uh as if as if him literally dying for us wasn't the ultimate sacrifice, that it wasn't enough to cover the sins. Exactly. That and if God knew everything from the beginning of time and all the way to the end of time, because he already knows and he d and Jesus died anyway. Mm-hmm. And he still sent Jesus to die for us. God, God, our Heavenly Father, still made sure that we'd be taken care of.
SPEAKER_03He's not just taking care of the ones who are absolutely clean, never done anything in their life. That person does not exist except for Jesus. But he takes care of those of he takes care of the sick. He literally said it himself. He's not here for the healthy, he is here for the sick, which is all of us.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we can't we can't pretend that we've got it all together. And I love when um Brian Pruitt s personified my um podcast name of a messy amen. Like how he's so good. Like it just like made my brain explode into chunks because not only is it my scribbles and you know, confusion and my um unans like, you know, pr prayers that I feel like are unanswered here and there, not only is it that mess and my oh I can't think straight or I don't know what's going on or blah blah blah. It's our life. It's all of us, like our whole being presented to God as an honest mess. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03So like um Is it okay if I talk to you about how your name personified in my life?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's you know, literally could be a question later on. We never know. So you're good. Well tell me.
SPEAKER_03So when I first moved to Michigan, because a little background on me, I have a teaching degree, right? And when I first moved to Michigan, I got a job working at a public school that I'm not gonna name. You're welcome. Anyway, um things happened. Yeah, things happened. It did not work out well, and I was just like, it got me back down again. And I was like, God, did I go through four years of college for this not to be what I was meant to do? And I didn't know what it meant, and I didn't understand, I was just angry again and it was such a hard time for me and for my husband, like because he was trying to support me through that. And I came to the realization that because God knows at the beginning, middle, and end of it, he knew before. If he knew, he knew what was gonna happen if I stayed that job and what would have happened to me in my spirit. And so he put the things in the way for me to get out of there. And while it took me a while to understand it, and like it was hard hearing that no from God, and it was a mess to get there. Now I'm in a position where I not only can teach again, which I thought I was never going to go back to, I have got another teaching position. And God has said no to many other things in the way of there. No to having children at this moment in time, no to like just different things. But he said no because he knows where my story's going. And that is my amen, despite the mess that it took to get there.
SPEAKER_00I'm not crying, you're crying. I um I love it because not only is that an amazing testimony in and of itself, and saying, you know, thank you for that in, you know, it encourages me too. Yeah. Like, because we can encourage each other, and that's the whole point of being like sisters in Christ. But you don't always get to hear those the intricate details of somebody's life on a Sunday morning. So when the um jingle will say life isn't always Sunday best, it feels like you know, you it can be discouraging to go to church and it feels like Instagram.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you don't because you and for me as a recovering um over-the-top social butterfly, not the you know regular kind, yeah. Um, but somebody that was so um so like, you know, literally coming from a lost place of, well, won't somebody love me if I'm happy enough or if I smile or if I jump up and down or run around and say hi to everybody, and then you know, realizing later in the day, oh, um, I don't know anything about so and so and that per and so-and-so and so. And I am not like I can really respect them and I can say, oh, I just love these people and I love everybody, and I am a golden retriever and a person's body.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_00But God showed me so much over the last um, you know, six, I don't know, eight, we'll just say eight years since, you know, eight, um, eight, nine years, and I've known um my husband, but like he's shown me, God has shown me that there are gonna be people that love me if I'm happy go lucky and bouncing up and down, and if I'm bumming out exhausted and grumpy. Yeah. That and one time one time I'm not even joking, I asked somebody at um, you know, at an old church, I said, What could I do in my communication and um to be a better um better friend? And he goes, you know, people like want to be around you and like people can like like you for who you are. And I'm like thinking, no, they really haven't, like my entire life. Like um, I don't have a good track record for that. So like, can you tell me what I can do to make myself more likable?
SPEAKER_03Or and you ever catch me doing that too? I literally did it just today.
SPEAKER_00Girl, that's why I said that earlier. You don't have to be like freaking out all the time. Like, it's fine. I love the questions for clarification, but like, you know, yeah, you could take a deep breath, you're safe here, you're loved, Jesus loves you. You have new friends and you know, new people to, you know. But like that's just funny how that works because there's different sides of the coin, you know, because if I might say that you might be a little anxious sometimes, like I would be like the opposite, and then be so idiotically like hyper and obnoxious that I have no idea what's going on at all.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So there's that end, and then there's uh like overthinking, like, oh no, oh no, oh, uh, huh. So like I'm not joking. There you there was a a good year where I would get so um, I would drink so much that I was excited because then they're gonna think I'm funny. Then I'm not I'm not gonna think about if I talk too much. I'm not I'm not gonna worry about that. But now I'm just like, I do talk a lot, but now it's my prayer that not only can I learn to listen as well, I might be I'm getting better at that, but that not only I can learn to listen as well, but I'm can rest and just be calm most of the time. Yeah. When it I I'm not ever going to be ash I'm and I I've really learned that I'm never gonna be ashamed again for my like true personality.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because I know now that I'm um healed in ways I never was in other times. And I'm he um like I'm confident now that I always tell people if I'm funny, I don't care if I'm um said something wrong or I was being silly. Like obvious because like if if there is a time and place and I want to be things to be like relatively appropriate, but like as far as like socially not, you know, yeah being inappropriate, but like I want to know people to know that I'm okay with like, you know, m being silly or messing up or you know, saying something, you know, being awkward because I love to bring, you know, if I say it's the comedic relief or whatever you want, because I'm more confident and calmer at the same time. So I want and I want to use my voice to interview you and you know, call, you know, call these stories and testimonies out to be encouraging to others because the complexities that br um our lives bring, they're not it's not black and white, it's not easy, it might be just a little bit messy, and that that's okay, right? Yeah, exactly. And like uh I because I'm just gonna say this and then we might even wrap up, but God knows every single step that you've taken from like when you were growing up and then randomly meeting a guy from uh way up in Michigan.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like well, that might be an episode for another day. Yeah. But like, you know, we got a nice, um, nice thick accent and um the fat, you know, you're from six out six and a half hours-ish, I don't know. Eight eight eight hours away. Six and a half is West Virginia. Um all geography. Um, like just can you tell share um like share a little bit more? And then if you wanted somebody, what somebody you wanted somebody to know something and take it away from this sh episode in particular, can you um speak to those that might be like struggling with their identity and um some of those things that you grew up with? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So if I could give you any like advice if you're struggling with your identity. First things first, you are a child of God. That is where your identity starts. Okay. I know it is popular at this in this point in time to figure out your figure out your identity. Am I this? Do I belong with that? You are a child of God, and that is what matters the most. That is what's going to bring you through every single part of your life, even at the darkest times where you don't want to get out of bed or brush your teeth, to the moments where you are jumping for joy and the happiest points in your life. That is where your identity lies within being a child of God.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. That couldn't say um, I um found one of the verses that I was th talking about later earlier. Um, because and like not only is this huge um identity huge in the way that we live our lives, like so the story before, you know, always long-winded, but like when what I believe about myself is good and what you believe about yourself, it's going to affect every single part of the way you live, every single part of your life, and how you interact with the world, right?
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00So we want to be rooted in Christ and we want to run our race well. I found a verse, okay? So one of um I will um look for some more in the show notes, but before um, but Hebrews chapter 12, verses 1 and 2 says, Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight and the sin that clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who, for the sake of the joy that was set before him, endured the cross, disregarding its shame, and has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of God.
SPEAKER_03That one's good.
SPEAKER_00So that like a lot of the um the fun analogy of Mario Kart, it's you know, that one doesn't work anymore because this is talking about running a race. We're not driving in a race, it's not fast and furious, unfortunately. But then um there's a I want to get a few more just in case anybody can't um not check in the show notes for whatever reason. So um tell me another um small testimony from recent.
SPEAKER_03So right after I so I had my interview for the new school that I um have I interviewed at the school, and after the interview, I felt really good about it. And my husband and I went into Hobby Lobby because it's around the time where they start putting out the teacher decor. So I was like, well, I know like in my brain, I'm like, I've got this. So I'm gonna start picking up the decor. And I see this sign, not even in the teacher decor section, but it was Jeremiah 29, 11.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna give a nod to um another episode too. I love how each one can build on the um next.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Or even back and forth between skip an episode, you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And the funny thing about that, ever since that day, in the middle of Hobby Lobby of all places, um, it's that verse has been following me everywhere, not just like in that store, but then in Brian's episode and like different things I've seen, like once just scrolling through my phone, just different things like that. And so that has given me my clarity for the last little bit. And because I feel like in this season I've really just been called to trust in God. No matter like, and that meant that has meant so many things throughout the season. Just just in general, trusting God that you know he's gonna bring me through the tough situations, but also trusting in God when it may not feel like he's there, when I can't feel that connection as strong at times, or I can't feel like I hear him as well, trusting that he's still there and he has his hands and behind the scenes, trusting that even when I don't see the finish line that he's standing there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And he has got it planned out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and the crazy l um race of life.
SPEAKER_03Exactly.
SPEAKER_00You know, and another thing I want to touch in touch on is Philippians 4 verse 8. It says, And now, dear brothers and sisters, one final thing. Fix your thoughts on what is true and honorable and right and pure and lovely and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise. Keep putting into practice all you learned and received from me, everything you heard from me and saw me doing, then the God of peace will be with you. So you know, that's our ch that's you know, we always joke about, you know, the differences between like legalism and then our genuine love for the Lord. But there are things to um to take from the legalism to um, you know, line ourselves up. It not absolutely or it's not legalism, it's um it's you know, the renewing of our mind in Romans chapter twelve um and I'll I'm gonna do another one because I was you know I was wondering where where my head was earlier. So we um in uh there's a hair um in Romans chapter twelve, I'm I said it, but I'm gonna read it read it, says, um Romans chapter twelve, one and two, and so dear brothers and sisters, if we're not sure already, let's be sure that we are dear brothers and sisters in Christ, right? That's what Paul calls us. I plead with you to give your bodies to the to God because of all he has done for you. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice, the kind he will find acceptable. This is truly the way to worship God. Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect. So if God's saying he knows the plans he has for you, then we our um our job is to be rooted in Christ, abide in him, draw near to him, and to fix our eyes on him.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00So like I can't think of anything else to um sum that up. But so we're thinking on the whole um things that are good and honorable and lovely. We're running our race. Yeah. We're trying um we're being transformed by the renewing of our minds, not you know, ca having a cop out excuse for bad, you know, bad behavior or you know, bad habits. And then um I was just gonna say one more, but I can't remember. You know, I it's so good. Like, and I just really appreciate this conversation because going from a complete stranger to, you know, such gr um great friends in, you know, just a few short weeks is beyond what I can imagine. Yeah. And it's only it's by the grace of God, honestly.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Because I love um, you know, having like rubbing shoulders with each other and really having um a friend that, you know, not only likes um some of the same things I do, but then loves the Lord like I do. Yeah. And that um you can understand um why this show means a lot to me and then why um being able and willing to um share your story has been so amazing.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much for letting me share it.
SPEAKER_00Of course. So I um I thank you all for um joining me and um hanging out with me and Elizabeth. Um as always, there will be a companion devotional over on Substack, and also not only is there gonna be that, but also there is new merch to check out. That will be linked in my link tree, and there is going to be a PDF guide. So if you are not into the Substack and you don't wanna subscribe to read all of the articles, um, and then you know, sometimes then the deeper articles after that, you know, all of that um on Substack, there will be the PDF guide on the merch website that will be available to download, and that will be a beautiful color um, you know, colored. You can print it or use it on um an annotation app like GoodNotes on your iPad or whatever. So don't um catch us on socials and we will see you next time. See