Scars, Surrender, and Starting Over

Michelle sits down with Nathanial Souder for one of the most raw and redemptive conversations the show has ever held. From a lonely childhood with no one to turn to, to a blood oath with an outlaw motorcycle club, to being kidnapped, tortured, and escaping with his life, Nathanial's story is not a quiet one.

And it didn't stop there. A rare brain condition that no surgeon in Michigan would touch. A 50/50 chance of dying on the table at Mayo Clinic. A motorcycle accident one year to the day of that surgery. Three times God said not yet, and Nathanial wasn't even sure he believed in Him yet.

What Nathanial was looking for his whole life was belonging. He found a version of it in the wrong place, and it nearly cost him everything. But underneath all of it was a man who decided at eight years old he would not repeat what he had seen, a man who carried more shame than he knew what to do with, and a man whose daughters eventually asked him to come to church with them.

He came. And something shifted.

This episode sits with the hard stuff, the counterfeit versions of brotherhood, the things we do that we still carry, the generational patterns we swear we will break and then have to actually fight to break. And it lands on a God who sweeps it all away like a cloud. Nathanial's own words say it best: his past doesn't define him. It refines him.

If you have ever wondered whether you are too far gone for God to reach, this episode is your answer.

KEY VERSES

Isaiah 44:22 — "I have swept away your transgressions like a cloud and your sins like mist. Return to me, for I have redeemed you."

Isaiah 43:1-2 — "Do not fear, for I have redeemed you. I have called you by name, you are mine."

Galatians 2:20 — "It is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me."

Psalm 107:2 — "Has the Lord redeemed you? Then speak out. Tell others he has redeemed you from your enemies."

"My past doesn't define me. But my past refines me. And I feel redeemed." Nathanial Souder

There is a companion devotional for this episode over on Substack, and new merch is available now in the shop. Both are linked in the link tree at linktr.ee/Amessyamenpod. Come find us on socials at @amessyamenpod and we will see you next time.

Transcript

Speaker 0:00

Life isn't always Sunday best. Sometimes your faith is put to the test. If you feel unseen and all alone, it's time for stories you've never known. Hello, welcome back to Messy Amen. This is a show where we talk about the good, the bad, and the holy parts of real life. I'm Michelle Torrey and I'm so glad you're here. Today we're sharing a really cool, really shocking redemption story and talking with a new friend, Nathanial Souder. Thank you for joining me.

Speaker 1 0:30

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 0:31

Um so as we um get into this, you have quite the story. Can you tell me a little bit about just like growing up and um your parents' home life, stuff like that?

Speaker 1 0:44

So growing up, I didn't have the greatest home life. I had a loving mother, but I had a very hard and strict father that wasn't around much. Um he treated me very differently, I guess you could say. I just remember a lot of times being by myself. I didn't have many friends at all. Spent a lot of time by myself.

Speaker 1:20

I feel that. Um you know, as we um school age, you know, we always say, um, a lot of times we say, Oh, look at the little days, and somebody everyone's gonna think something different, right? Or I s I'm gonna but for personally I'm gonna say no, right now it's the good days and they're gonna just get better. So growing up with a father that would not be considered the best at the time, what age would you have said um to yourself maybe that you didn't want to turn out that way?

Speaker 1 1:51

I was probably right around the age between eight and ten.

Speaker 1:57

So early on you you saw patterns and behaviors that you knew that one day you're said i any th with all that is within me, I will not repeat.

Speaker 1 2:09

That is very correct.

Speaker 2:12

And as we've had a theme like that on the show, it doesn't make it any easier to hear and um you know go through those things. And it doesn't make it any um you know, it's uh something that we, you know, we have to he heal from over time. It's doesn't happen overnight, right?

Speaker 2 2:32

Correct.

Speaker 2:33

And as so can you tell me as far as growing up, you know, you were a kid then, then teenage years to early adulthood, what that kind of looked like for you?

Speaker 1 2:46

Growing up, um, I got bullied, uh, beat up, picked on. I was the ugly duckling. I just did not have friends, no girlfriends, no, you know, nothing at the time. And growing up not having anyone to turn to really structured my life in a way to isolate myself. And after that, you know, when I grew up, I sought therapy for a while, but continually in the jobs that I work, I had to stop because I'm constantly working six days a week. So in the time that I'm off, I need to continue that.

Speaker 3:45

So and you're if you're so bit it's like six days a week, that's you know, it doesn't give you much downtime.

Speaker 1 3:51

Not much at all.

Speaker 3:53

So if you're talking about being isolated, not feeling like you had any friends, anyone to turn to, maybe didn't feel like you had much um to belong to, what um, where did you end up finding that and um what did that look like?

Speaker 1 4:09

Well, when I got older, I had started like a it was a motorsports club, and the friends that I had at that time joined with me, and then it quickly turned into what I sought out for for myself, which was a motorcycle club. They came to me, you know, with the brotherhood and that lifestyle will have your back, and it turned me on and I quickly joined, and I got into that life, and it was an outlaw 1% motorcycle club.

Speaker 4:59

So, but then you felt included, and then you felt like you had friends, so d um, can you just give a little bit more um detail on how that made you feel?

Speaker 1 5:12

At the time it made me feel great, um, made me feel powerful, made me feel strong, just knowing that I had brothers that I could count on. But then after a little while of being into it, I knew that it wasn't for me. Uh, not only the things that I would see or be involved in, but there was tons of racism, and there was just so many things and aspects that I was not into.

Speaker 5:50

Not for me, fam.

Speaker 1 5:51

That's right.

Speaker 5:53

So if anybody so the ironic part as I um, you know, asked you at the you know, new people party at church was, do you ride motorcycles by chance? You're like, um, about that. So I meant that in a um loving way because m happen um it happens to be that I have been in the a Christian motorcyclist association um as a member since 2009, and my mom and my stepdad are um in it uh the chap Ann Arbor chapter, and they've been in ministry to motorcycle clubs as you know long as I can remember. So that's been their, you know, a lot of their life and activities revolves around that. So it there's a um I will you know, if I could, I would we would have not only have a little bit of land, but you know, maybe a quad, a motorcycle, a camper, a bo, you know, there's a d lots of fun things out there. But right now, um, after you know, years of you know, joking about it, if I ever have the opportunity, I'd probably get a camper before a motorcycle, just because it could be more for the whole family. But, you know, okay, if no if somebody doesn't know what it means, like outlaw 1% club means, and you know, what would you d describe that as just for like you know, vague, vague overview if needed, whatever?

Speaker 1 7:20

Well, there is a generally undertone of crime. Um I guess not even an undertone. Yeah.

Speaker 7:33

Not super um, you know, conspicuous, if you like. Yeah, this is not a great thing, but that they're gonna they're saying, okay, we're gonna do this, this, and this, and no one say anything. You know, it's gonna be like a we got each other's backs, and this is, you know, we're in this together type of thing. So you got this brotherhood, but that what was a turning point of like you said there was some racism, and then, you know, obviously some um some of the crimes that you're just like, I don't want to be a part of this. What can you tell me more about that transition and how you realized you didn't want to be a part of that?

Speaker 1 8:07

Well, one of the biggest turning points of that part in my life was I was held at gunpoint and kidnapped by a rival club, and I was tortured, and I was severely scarred, not just physically, but mentally, and I was able to free myself, and when I later got back to the club, um I won't go into detail, but I was I ended up partaking in things that I shouldn't have after the fact to seek out retribution. And I never got in trouble for it, but I committed a lot of sins and I I feel like I paid the ultimate price because I I did a lot of bad to bad people and I always judge myself for that.

Speaker 9:42

Yeah. You know, you think maybe you say, well, they deserved it, or you know, they got what that was coming for them. And a lot of times we like to think that we have a pla um place to do that sort of thing. And a lot of times some you know, people might not always blame you too, right? There's um and the best thing about Jesus is he says to leave it all at the cross.

Speaker 1 10:11

That's correct.

Speaker 10:13

And then there was an was there another thing that was like this is this is not it for me, and um you might have mentioned in a um pre-interview interview that was when I knew I was having my twin daughters at the time, I I was able to get out from the club because I held such a high position and I was sworn to secrecy and basically a blood oath that I would never speak on it. And then so if you said, I got kids coming, I this is not what I would want our you know, them to know me by or you know, correct.

Speaker 1 11:01

That was exactly what it was about. I didn't want my daughters growing up in that life and seeing their father either in prison or dead.

unknown 11:13

Yeah.

Speaker 11:14

So not anything um w you know, we talked recently on the show about juvenile detention and you know, and what it how that, you know, early intervention can, you know, we c they can hope to teach kids about Jesus and that then turn things around and have as much of their life as possible to, you know, b um live for God. I just want you to know that it doesn't matter when that happens, that we can turn to God. There's still so much time.

Speaker 2 11:50

Yes.

Speaker 11:51

And that um when we have kids it changes everything, right?

Speaker 1 11:56

It really does.

Speaker 11:57

We one thing that I've realized is how selfish I can be. And I pray all the time, Lord, in in the like so many times I don't, you know, I need to get better about calling out on him immediately. But like the thing is to say, Lord, get right now I see how I'm you know, my brain wants like my thought patterns uh um want to sin and I want to be nasty and impatient and you know, root all the things, and then we look at these kids and say, they're little, they're you know, they're just kiddos, and that um and then we think, okay, you know, and we want to live for God, right? So that w was quite a heavy near-death experience and going down that path of, you know, not great things and things that you know now that um maybe wish it hadn't happened, but not the only near-death experience you've had.

Speaker 1 12:56

That's correct. Uh roughly about four years ago now uh I was diagnosed with a super rare brain condition. I hate talking about some of this stuff. Um it was so rare that not one single surgeon in Michigan would touch my case. And so I sat basically by myself. Um my now ex-wife at the time um didn't really she wasn't really there for me. Um but at the time I just every day thought that I was gonna die and lose my children, lose my life. And so I just gave up until one day I heard some friends talking, and they had mentioned about going over to Minnesota, over to Mayo, and they said just go, sit in the waiting room, and be seen. And so that's exactly what I did. I waited eight hours in the waiting room, and they finally took me back, and they saw what was going on. I gave them all my paperwork and everything, and they thought it was a joke. And the surgeon went outside in the hallway, came back in about ten minutes later, and said, We have the top surgeon in the country on your case.

unknown 14:37

Wow.

Speaker 1 14:38

And it took them a week to figure out how to do the surgery. So at the time we were staying there, they called me back in um a few days before the surgery was going to take place, and they told me, or he told me, that it was going to be a 50-50 chance of me dying on the operating table or losing complete eyesight.

Speaker 15:08

I said, wow, how encouraging.

Speaker 1 15:13

So I didn't really I just took the odds, of course, because I didn't have any other choice. So went through the surgery, I come out, and when I awake, I can see. And I'm alive.

Speaker 15:37

And you beat both of those, supposedly.

Speaker 1 15:39

I beat both the odds.

Speaker 15:41

What was going through your head and like how like going into that even? Like, did were you um did you have hope? Did you what were you thinking?

Speaker 1 15:54

So when I was a kid, I had faith. And then growing up I had lost it. When I was going through a lot of the stuff that I had gone through, I had some of that faith in me. Not like the faith that I do today. But going through it, I still didn't know how things were gonna turn out. I didn't pray. And so I still left it up to God. And I had no idea how things were gonna turn out. And I I really just didn't think, I didn't feel, I didn't know how things were going to end up.

Speaker 16:57

So what was your um, you know, thought process and things like g coming out of that um surgery and what did life look like then?

Speaker 1 17:08

Well, coming out of the surgery was rough. Um it took almost a year to fully heal. And during that time frame, I found out that my then wife was cheating on me at the time, uh, during all of this. And I filed for divorce. And then after I was fully healed, I went back to work. And then a year to the day of my surgery, I was on my motorcycle, and a woman pulled out in front of me, and I ended up T-boning her. And I spent three weeks in the hospital. Uh, they almost had to ampute amputate my left leg. Three major surgeries. Everything, from my knee down to my ankle is all metal. But I have my left leg.

Speaker 18:15

And your life.

Speaker 1 18:16

And my life.

Speaker 18:17

There's three near-death experiences.

Speaker 1 18:20

Yeah.

Speaker 18:23

Then um keep walking me through. Then so that c you know could have killed you. Did you think um think of God at um that point or not?

Speaker 1 18:32

So I did. I had a little more faith then. Not so.

Speaker 18:37

Kind of in the back of your head, you're just like, hmm, why am I still here?

Speaker 1 18:41

Yep, that's exactly what it was. And I I received a text message from one of my friends at the time, and it just said, God puts the strongest warriors through the most crap. And it hit me because I hadn't heard that before. And it resonated with me. And just because of all the trials and tribulations that I've been through in my life, but it still didn't bring me to the point where I needed. And then I found my now fiance, Christina.

Speaker 19:30

How'd you find her? That's kind of the best part.

Speaker 1 19:35

So I was on Facebook dating, and I found her, and we started talking, and it was a very short kind of few-day conversation, nothing too extravagant. And then I decided, for no apparent reason, that I just wanted to be off of social media. So I guess you could say I kind of ghosted her.

Speaker 20:09

A little bit. Because who knows what she was thinking.

Speaker 1 20:12

Correct. But then a little time went by and she was on my mind.

Speaker 20:20

What'd you what were you thinking then? She was kind of cute, she was nice to me.

Speaker 1 20:27

Yeah, she was very attractive. Um, I know we had talked and had, you know, things in common. And so I had gotten back on Facebook dating, and I sought her out. And I sought her out for a purpose. And so once I found her, we picked right back up and we had our first date. And s even after our first date, she'll tell you too. I didn't even think that we were gonna be together.

Speaker 21:02

Oh, really?

Speaker 1 21:03

Correct. But then we had a second date, and from there we just hit it off. And it was amazing. And she's been a Christian all of her life. Yeah. Her and her her and her family. And she is the one that really brought to fruition Christianity, God. And it's it's just been a blessing. She brought me to Grace Valley, Christmas Eve. Oh, yeah. Is that your first uh 2025 and that point on I just I knew something in me knew that I needed to come back and to allow Jesus in my life.

Speaker 21:57

Yeah. Something special. about um coming back. And what um was there something anything that you remember from church that night?

Speaker 1 22:10

I remember how beautiful Christina looked. Yes.

Speaker 22:14

We always we have to try to find the right outfits for Christmas Eve. I feel like I always you know get put to shame by the fashion show.

Speaker 1 22:22

I remember Pastor Kurt having a beautiful sermon.

unknown 22:25

Yeah.

Speaker 1 22:29

It just from that point on I wanted more. And I've never had that want before. And that was what was truly beautiful about it.

Speaker 22:44

That's amazing. Um what else stands out? Like, you know, g something about um our church services like maybe like the worship or something somebody has said recently in a sermon, anything like that?

Speaker 1 22:57

I really enjoy the the people it's very it's so friendly.

Speaker 23:06

Yeah.

Speaker 1 23:06

I enjoy every sermon.

Speaker 23:09

You might have a tattoo or two maybe that you know you might walk into another church and you know maybe somebody would be like, oh like we don't want to talk to that guy. Right. But you know, rather than that I um it was uh um less um wasn't super busy a few weeks ago on a Wednesday and I s and I dragged my friend over and said we gotta meet meet a new some new friends and I like that's kind of how I grew up was you know if you know that's nor like been normal for my whole you know you know my mom never taught told me to not talk to strangers. That's one of her you know strong suits in life is talking to all the strangers. Mom if you're watching this I love you. People don't get much more friendly than at our church and I like to pride myself in being obnoxiously extroverted and all the things so you know whether you like it or not we'll be um we'll become friends you know from from that point forward and you know the rest will be history and the you know turns out your fiancee is my neighbor and we know that and um all the things but at church it is like I'll you know add my exclamation point on that because it really has been friendly and that stood out to us um like almost four years ago and you know then the worship the music has been so good too but as this has all been newer to you that is um really fun and you know encouraging to me because like there is so there are so many different types of you know testimonies and faith and you know we can say that you can you know pray for your girls now we say I really pray that they have boring testimonies right we can we can pray we can pray that that is our goal and we you know raise our kids up to know the word and to know that God loves them and to be good parents.

Speaker 2 24:59

Correct.

Speaker 25:00

So um there's a couple verses I wanted to point out in Isaiah I think I have you have one bookmark but even before that I was just tur gonna turn the page to the correct verse but the um page before it says Isaiah 43 um the second part of the first verse into verses two it says do not fear for I have redeemed you I have called you by name you are mine when I when you pass through the waters I will be with you and through the rivers they shall not overwhelm you. When you walk through the fire you shall not be burned and the flame shall not consume you for I am the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior I then ver verse four says Because you are precious in my sight and honored and I love you. And then five says again do not fear for I am with you but the verse we are going to talk about was um Isaiah forty four twenty two and that one that one says I have swept away your transgressions like a cloud and your sins like mist return to me for I have redeemed you so if I um if you were hearing that for the first time or maybe the second time what does that um make you think of and you know mean to you in your life I guess I can say that my past doesn't define me but my past refines me and I feel redeemed. That's uh you know that's so good. I have said um over and over again and one of the themes of our show is when things are messy and when things um feel like if we feel like we're too far um you know too far gone it's we never are and that um we can you know be running the wrong direction and you know doing who knows what and what you know God doesn't bring sin. So it doesn't matter um what we've done but that we turn around and Jesus is ready with open arms um like a prodigal like the prodigal son. But then as you keep going and now you're now you have a whole um you can think about the past and now a new life in Christ. Right? Can you describe a couple of those um things that maybe you used to feel and what you feel now living um for God?

Speaker 1 27:45

Before I never had Jesus in my heart and now my heart is so full and I'm not turning back. Yeah ever.

Speaker 27:58

What um what song like maybe there's a fun song that we've sang that um we have a few upbeat ones that are popular you know on the radio and that we've been singing are there any um you know choruses or bridges that popped um pop into your head the one that I actually that I really like and I don't even know the name of it but it's the hallelujah. W um which we have um how about uh and washed in the water washed in the blood I do like that one as well yes um wait so we there's a few new ones that are um of that theme there are you think like hallelujah as n um if it hadn't been for the blood?

Speaker 2 28:42

Yes.

Speaker 28:43

Okay that isn't my that was my next guess. Um I um love that and definitely gets me emotional as well um that's one that each one there's a couple too that are newer uh that are similar to that name but that one I like that one a little bit more um but another verse as we talk about living in Christ that I um found was Galatians two um two verse twenty and it says um and it is no longer I who live but it is Christ who lives in me and the life I now live in the um the in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me I do not nullify the grace of God for if um justification comes through the law then Christ died for nothing. So that means that you know as we love um God we um want to obey th um obey the laws but that that's not what saves us it's our faith um you know faith in Jesus and you know that he died for us. And um what there's one more verse that I wanted to share but I like it in the NLT which is one that you're borrowing. Can you hold that up for anybody sh um watching and how manly you look with a floral a floral covered Bible that is one of my new favorite ones and I just like the wording and it was Psalm 107 verse 2 Has the Lord redeemed you then speak out tell others he has redeemed you from your enemies mic drop moment so you know when we have um that heaviness and that weight and those you know feeling guilt or shame that's not of what God wants you know we can give all of that to Jesus and that we can remember the Galatians and all of there's so many good ones. I'll even, you know, if I have a few minutes later I'll just you know give you all kinds of um fun ones book recommendations and all the things like don't get me started I'll you know I got w um you know there's honestly Galatians and is a really good one to check out later we just did a women's study on it. But um talk just sit with that for a second and then you know what else um have you been feeling lately? You know you said the joy and f you know full and you know in Jesus there's fullness of joy and you are you know saying how that didn't wasn't always the case.

Speaker 2 31:32

Right.

Speaker 31:32

You know with growing up with an angry dad you know things are a lot better now.

Speaker 1 31:40

I now have a good relationship with my father a good relationship with my mother he has turned himself around because I can see what he has done for his grand grandchildren. And he is so much better than he was with me. And that sits so heavy on my heart and it's just beautiful to me.

Speaker 32:09

Do you ever have to um pray about that when you see if you see him being nice to them I can only imagine some of the um you know complicated you know feelings there and yes I do pray for my father um or that you wouldn't you know letting go of you know bitterness of not like you know and pray that you don't don't even feel jealous for your um of your girls because that you know there's a lot of you know actuality I don't have any bitterness towards them.

Speaker 1 32:46

Okay. I have come to uh terms and um I just lost forgiveness and I have given them all forgiveness.

Speaker 32:57

Okay. So like as you s you can just be happy and see that he is you know and be a nice grandpa that's um one thing that I so growing up I only had one grandma because all of the other three had passed away before I was born. So my only experience was um my grandma and she was being a l um a little bit older I was the youngest of 14 grandkids. So then my experience was even different than the um those of my cousins and stuff and so going from having one to my um I have my both my parents my parents are divorced and I have b um two stepparents and then in-laws and so going from one grandparent to my daughter having you know all of those plus the steps and um which she doesn't know know about or understand and I would never want her to really you know figure that out until she's much older because it's just to me it's more grandparents for her and that's the main point is the love extra love that she receives. But on top of that is like the friend the older friends that are kind of like grandma and grandpa. And so um but tell me a more about um the relate um how that has translated but more even growing up and then how you've turned it around being a father yourself well knowing how I was treated and dealt with when I was a child I knew that I was going to break the generational curse because that's all my father knew from his father.

Speaker 1 34:31

So knowing now that I have broken that curse and am the father that I am today to my daughters I'm filled with love and joy every single day. I just love it.

Speaker 34:48

Does that help you to be patient too? Yes and um so like in s if we're gonna stay we could even stay in Galatians one of my friends um who I just interviewed um she loves Galatians 5 22 and 23 the fruit of the spirit so the love joy peace patience kindness goodness faithfulness gentleness and self-control that I was joking with her that being like a cliche because I grew up my dad like singing a song about that I taught um my daughter but she's like no this is if we want to be anything like Jesus this is um the fruit that will bear so like to and to me I you know I've grown up in church my whole life but I have um my fleshly desire sometimes is to um be grumpy and frustrated and not you know get down on her le um my four-year-old's level and just you know understand um what she wants and how I can um play with her or spend time with her or really cultivate that relationship which is you know humbling right now to say out loud because man like man um it real it it shouldn't take that much effort sometimes that I'm you know making a bigger deal or getting too busy or stuff like that. But it sounds like um is there anything in this that's been tricky for you or you're just like really you know been taken aback where you're just like nope I you know this is X, Y, and Z, I'm doing this and not that well things were a little tricky a while a while ago.

Speaker 2 36:26

Yeah.

Speaker 1 36:27

But since you know I've been co going to church and allowing Jesus into my life it has gotten a lot better.

Speaker 2 36:35

Yeah.

Speaker 1 36:35

And my children even see that. Yeah and they have noticed so much of a difference in me and so much so that they want to know more about God themselves. And they asked me to come to Grace Valley.

Speaker 2 36:55

Yeah.

Speaker 1 36:55

And so Christina and I brought them and it's it's turning out to be an amazing blended family.

Speaker 37:03

That's awesome.

Speaker 1 37:04

Yes.

Speaker 37:04

Because you said sh um she has kids too and they all get to get along like the um Adam Sandler movie Blended. Yes. But um and so as this has all been going on and then um the last several months have you been watching like any other um like listening to any other podcasts or reading books? Like what's been um helping grow your faith like as far as like studying the word or anything like that?

Speaker 1 37:31

So I do listen to uh Bill Johnson.

Speaker 37:34

Okay.

Speaker 1 37:35

And a lot of his sermons.

Speaker 37:36

Okay and then um do you read at all? Because I was gonna say you could get a library card and do audio books if you don't like to sit and like sit and read like that. But um my husband can have um tricky times sometimes which we're busy enough we can't blame I can't blame him too much. But um I found there um are a few I think there's a few podcasts that he might um be able to recommend and then um just as the um resources too to even studying the word you can look into like Bible commentaries and to see what like st other scholars have said and sometimes breaking down um well not sometimes breaking down the text helps too and then the um my dad likes to say the Bible interpreted interprets the Bible so the cross references so I will officially trade you um floral pretty floral bible to manly um leather bible and um you can um flip through that and you'll see um cross references and all of the words that are underlined in that um there's the um concordance in the back of the Greek and Hebrew so that's a really fun one was kind of a splurge and uh impulse by but that's a um really fun one and there's some resources too so like as you're growing um and you know seven sevenish months now um that's you know so it's new and exciting and um but you know I feel I feel like you've been through all the trials already so I I can only hope and pray that um God can you know spare you from anything else we we don't want to have any more testimonies for the Jesus Lord help us. But like that's it's so cool to um have you at church and to um know that um you're in the word and you want to you know even be a student of the word and we can um find ways to help um dive in. I sometimes the thing I don't like about summer is that most of the small groups um take a break. I don't take a break because um some people have a more open schedule in the summertime like some moms with um their kids' school schedules or whatever the case but the thing is to maybe find like a few men to do like a discipleship group or a small bible study or whatever the case like it might be tricky with work hours but that is something that I'm looking into what I will want to do as a Bible study. Well there's um yep that the and we can we'll talk more about the ins and outs but um what else as far as this whole conversation goes what could you say to listeners who just they're like okay well that's really good for Nathaniel but I don't know if God could forgive me.

Speaker 1 40:30

Could you talk to them for a minute I tell you what as much stuff as I've been through if I would have allowed Jesus into my life beforehand I feel like I would have been saved a lot sooner.

Speaker 40:50

Open your mind and open your heart and allow him in because he's waiting and he's ready for us right that is right so um this is a new thing I've been um really enjoying too um whether it's been organic feedback um for a guest or I um asking myself um the show being called a messy amen what does that mean to you and what does it make you think of?

Speaker 1 41:19

Well my life was quite the mess and now I feel like it's getting cleaned up.

Speaker 41:27

Yeah and that's we're washed by the water washed by the blood that's exactly what that means. So when you know if Jesus nailed our sins to the cross and we don't have to carry that anymore the um shame the um self-judgment and that he can um he can take that and he took the curse for us.

Speaker 2 41:49

Yes.

Speaker 41:50

So I want to thank you again and um you if as things unfold I will um love to continue to you know help plug you in with the um right friends and resources to you know just to continue to encourage you. But and on the flip side um thank you all for joining us this has been so powerful and another tear jerker. I'm um get we're on a roll with those and for good reason that um at we bring our mess we bring our messy amen to God and he is there for us and redeems us in all situations when we repent and turn back to him there will be a companion devotional for this over on Substack and as always um check out the link tree for anything else you might find and I thank you for um joining we will see you next time