Know Your Worth

Some friendships start with a duster and a mutual love of stationary. 

Pam Isom worked at the Faith Christian bookstore, and one day I walked in with my daughter having a very not okay moment. Pam asked if I needed help. I said she needs a job. Pam went behind the counter, grabbed a duster, handed it to Lydia, and that was it. We have been friends ever since.

Pam has been in the word since she was five years old. She asked to be saved at seven and did not fully know what she was signing up for, but that yearning never left her. She raised two kids six years apart, worked at a homeless shelter where God showed her what she was actually built for, and is now an empowerment coach at the YWCA. The girls she has poured into call her Mama Pam. They still call her when they need prayer.

She is also a widow. When her husband passed suddenly, everything she knew was gone overnight, and the foundation she had been building since she was a little girl is the only reason she is still standing. She talks in this episode about crying on her bed with a mortgage she could not cover on one income, and what happened an hour later when the phone rang.

Now she is starting a nonprofit called I'm A Wife Ministries, because she wants girls to know their worth before somebody else tries to tell them what it is. Not a side chick. Not just a baby mama. A wife. And she wants to start teaching that at age ten.

In this episode we talk about:

• Raising kids with respect instead of fear, and why Pam never had to give a spanking
• What we shelter our kids from and why it matters more than we think
• Why nobody is teaching girls their value, and how the church and parents both assume the other one is doing it
• Finding time in the word as a young mom when there is no time
• What Pam is learning right now in the book of Acts, and why Stephen the martyr stopped her cold
• The difference between empowering women and telling them to follow their heart
• Christian phrases we repeat that are not actually in the Bible
• Meeting people where they are instead of beating them up with the Bible
• Losing her husband suddenly, and the two moments God answered so specifically she cried in a parking lot
• Where I'm A Wife Ministries is headed, from meet and greets to seminars to a 90 day mentorship program

Key verses from this conversation:

• Psalm 46:10, "Be still, and know that I am God"
• Psalm 23, the first thing Pam ever memorized
• Acts 7, Stephen asking God to forgive the people stoning him
• Titus 2:3-5, older women teaching the younger women
• 2 Timothy 2:15, study to show yourself approved

If you have ever felt like you missed your window to be poured into, or like you are the one who is supposed to be pouring and you have no idea what you are doing, this one is for you. We need each other. We need women older than us who are humble enough to be kind about what they know.

Find Pam on Instagram and Facebook at I'm A Wife Ministries.

Head to the Substack for this week's devotional that goes along with the episode, and grab everything else at the link below.

You are not alone here. 🙏

Visit us HERE! Grab some merch!

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:33

Hello and welcome back to a messy amen. This is the podcast where we talk about the good, the bad, and the holy parts of real life. I'm your host, Michelle Torrey. Thanks again. Today I have Pam Isom here, and um it's so funny how I met her, but I let her tell that. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_01 0:52

I'm fine, and you?

SPEAKER_06 0:53

Good.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

That's good. I met Michelle as a customer coming into the Faith Christian store. And she used to bring her kids in there, and we just kind of meshed with each other's. I don't know what it was, but we just kind of meshed with each other. And one day she brought her daughter in. And she was not behaving. And I could see that Michelle was getting frustrated. So I asked her, did she need some help? And she said, yes, she needs a job. And so I went behind the desk and I grabbed a duster and I gave it to Lydia. And she started dusting. And then from on, from there on we became friends.

SPEAKER_06 1:39

Yep. I think that really solidified things, but I um I I can tell you why we meshed, because um you like pens. Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Stationery. Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:51

So I am all about that life. Anything, anything I can get my hands on, I'll try a new set of pens.

SPEAKER_04 1:56

Me too.

SPEAKER_06 1:58

So um when I told you, I said, you know what, what it I think you might have a lot to say. And you said, sure I do.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

All the time, but not on the screen.

SPEAKER_06 2:11

But I had you write in my journal some wisdom and some bio verses and um some parenting advice because the um the little k um ages, you know, are kind of trying sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 2:27

How many kids do you have?

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Two.

SPEAKER_06 2:29

Okay. How um like what's their age gap?

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Oh, six years apart. Oh six years apart.

SPEAKER_06 2:35

What what did you was ha did you feel like that was common at um around then or um kind of a big gap?

SPEAKER_01 2:43

I don't even think I thought about it being a gap because originally I only wanted one job. Oh and then I was blessed with my son. So I never did really think about the gap.

SPEAKER_06 2:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

It just kind of happened, and then I was like, okay, now I can have a son.

SPEAKER_06 3:00

So then it's your okay, perfect, just like me.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:04

So um, because nowadays that sounds like a lifetime, and people some m might argue that they want um want a potty train first before starting over, and some say, well, if you never get out of diapers, it makes no difference. And I'm just like, I think that's you know, I got you know, three-ish years, three and a half, and uh between mine and it it's a lot, um, it's a big gap because then I think the older one gets used to being the only only kid, but then I also think it works out because they're a little bit more a little bit more mature. Yeah, and then they help. Then they can help. They can try to help, right? So I would say um I might be really good at being a um teenage like mom to teenagers someday. I feel like but then then there c has a lot of other drama.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_06 3:55

So I think I should slow down.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

You should be happy. Happy with those moments right now.

SPEAKER_06 4:00

Did you have a favorite age, or do you think that they all have um ups and downs?

SPEAKER_01 4:06

My favorite age for my daughter was I want to say around 10. My son as a baby. As a baby.

SPEAKER_06 4:19

You're like it was all downhill from there. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

My son as a baby. But my daughter aged 10 because her personality kind of shifted. Okay, and so it was like it was fun. Because she was you could see it, but then when she got about 13, no.

SPEAKER_06 4:38

You said 10 to 13, she's pretty chill, we can handle this, she likes me.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Yep, and she and she helped out a lot. She helped out a lot. She she was happy being the big sister. So I never made her make it be her responsibility. You know how some people go get this, go get that. I never did that, so I think that's why she felt okay with if I helped, because that's what I want to do, not because of what I'm being made to do.

SPEAKER_06 5:04

I'm the same way, you know.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Yeah, so and she and she'll say it today, she'll say it right now, like, I'm so glad you didn't just make me do certain things, you know, with with him.

SPEAKER_06 5:15

So for sure. I think that ends up being interesting when people have um multiple and then it can be hard to juggle.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:24

So then, oh, can you grab this? Can you do this? Yes. I mean, I do that, but I try not to do it too much, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:30

But they're but they like to help though, because sometimes I think it builds their self-esteem.

SPEAKER_06 5:34

Especially with uh um little girls, so I think they have fun with it, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:38

So, what were some things back then that really helped you stay grounded um in the word, stuff like that?

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Well, I was brought up in the word. Um, I can I don't remember a time that I can remember that I wasn't in the word. My mom brought me up in church from my first experience I might I can remember was five. I was brought up in church. I remember waking up one morning when I was seven and I said, I want to be saved. And she was like, Really? And I said, Yeah, and I I don't know why. I just wanted to be saved. I didn't even, I think I knew what it meant, but not to the depth of what it meant. So after that, it just seems like it's always been. I've always had that building blocks, right? Yeah, I always had that yearning to want to know.

SPEAKER_06 6:35

Yeah, you know, so then you did um and you stayed pretty consistent in that. Yeah, I I stayed pretty consistent.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

I always knew the word, but did I always live the word? No, no, I did not.

SPEAKER_06 6:47

Uh I've um, you know, we're getting into season two of the show, and it's wild um to think of how much God can bring us through. Yes. And then even when I've said to a couple guests that my prayer for my kids is for a very boring testimony that they can say that they were kept they were kept by the Lord and they were saved from things that they could have done, but then they didn't, and they made wise choices instead of foolish. But um for the the non-boring um testimonies, God is so good and he has brought people through so much in the in the thick of it. So, but when you like how did that how'd you get Bible time in when you were a young mom? Like when you had when they were little.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Because I was always involved in something in the church. So even though I had them, I was still in Bible study, or I was still I wasn't able to study as much as I can do now.

SPEAKER_06 7:44

Like at home, but at church, it would always be.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

And then I was blessed to have people that helped me in church. So it's like, oh, I'll take 'em, you know, and so that helped me a lot too.

SPEAKER_06 7:55

Yeah, sometimes it's just, you know, 15 minutes and um can change the whole tone of your day. Yeah. I've um been I tried the other morning to, you know, get up a little bit earlier because I did on a mission trip to the Dominican Republic, and then I came home and I was like, Oh, I I meant to do that. It just didn't happen. So what would you say? Um you said that you like those age groups. Would you say um would you s what would you say the biggest things you missed from when your kids were younger?

SPEAKER_01 8:27

I missed being able to nurture them.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Yeah. I I I like to nurture them. I liked for them to be like if I was in the room, they were in the room with me, you know, just being, even if it wasn't but something, just my son would always, we would always watch movies, different cartoons, and um my son would always be on the floor. It didn't matter if he started in the bed, he was gonna end up on the floor, and my daughter was always gonna be right in the bed with me. And it was just those moments that I just I missed.

SPEAKER_06 8:59

Having them be so sweet and little.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 9:02

It's it's one um those things that um kind of make me remember that that's they're only small for a little while. Yeah. Because you uh sometimes I want to gripe when somebody says that and say, Oh my gosh, but I'm frustrated, it's hard, or you're like, I'm having a hard day. I don't wanna, you know, I wanna I need that village or whatever. But then you say, Okay. Then they're gonna have another birthday and you're gonna say, Where'd the time go?

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Where did the time go?

SPEAKER_06 9:28

And then if you're crying all the time and fussing, then you're not enjoying it.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 9:33

So it's like stay and then so that Bible time really can make you have a better attitude to enjoy that, right? Yeah. So then what does that look like for you now? Saying in the word. What do you what would you say is your routine?

SPEAKER_01 9:48

My routine is I'm gonna study every night. I'm gonna do something every night. Even it might sometimes it's longer than others, but I may I try to be consistent in every time I do it. Because I had to make a commitment to myself because at first I was like I never got out of the word, but it was just like sometimes it's like, oh, I can do it tomorrow. Oh, I can do it tomorrow, oh I can, oh well, God knows. You know what I'm saying? But then I felt like it was a yearning in me that I just wanted to do more. So I was like, what could I do? So first thing I said, okay, instead of just getting up and laying back down and pushing the alarm clock, I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna start praying. So then I started praying. Then I started saying, okay, so what can I do more after that? So after I started doing the prayer, then I started doing the communion every morning. So now I got the communion, and then I got the prayer. And so then when I go to bed at night is when I do the study. So after I get off work, then I do the study part. That's all.

SPEAKER_06 10:52

So do you um what's your go-to for studying right now? You do like devotions or commentaries?

SPEAKER_01 10:58

I do my devotions and my prayers in the morning in the morning. At night I do the Bible study. And right now I'm in um what did I just do last night? Maybe it'll wrap it last night. It wasn't Isaiah. It was oh Acts.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

I'm going through the book of Acts right now. So yeah, so every night I try to do a chapter and just like really dig deep in it. And so then the next night, what I'll do is I'll go back over that chapter, see if I missed anything, and then I go on to a new chapter.

SPEAKER_06 11:33

So have you had any um major spiritual downloads that stuck out to you lately? At the early church and the Paul's friends and Paul becoming a Christian.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Yeah, right now I'm at where Paul is on the road to Damascus. So what I found interesting was is about the deacons, where the deacons in the church actually came from. And Stephen was one of the deacons. He was one of the first ones. And so I was like, wow, because you know you hear about Stephen being a martyr, but you didn't really know where is where it started, and uh that intrigued me. But then I got sad because you know how they did him. And but I I was elated when he said, you know, forgive them. Even when he was being stoned, he was just like, forgive them. I was like, wow. I can't imagine getting stoned with me. I can't, I can I can't even. Not in the 2026. I can't, but yeah. That's that stick, that's that really stuck out with me because I really feel like that's how we're supposed to be.

SPEAKER_06 12:38

Ready, ready to give it all up for you.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Yeah, that's what we strive to be, but when in actuality are we?

SPEAKER_06 12:45

For telling people about Jesus. So I'll um I'll just you know say that when we're in the Dominican Republic, I was trying with everything in me to speak um in a way that people would understand me in Spanish, and then saying, have you accepted Jesus in your heart? I'm asking, like, so I got to do crafts with um young girls and like little kids. There was like the evangelism in on the team um is centered around um pulling the kids from the the families that are there for um medical things. There's like medical, dental, and vision. Okay. So then I got to um we played sports, we did crafts and stuff like that. So I'm asking these little preteens and um girls, I'm like, have you accepted Jesus in your heart? And so I'm like, okay, Lord, if I could do that in Spanish and the struggle, I'm like the the struggle with the language barrier, um, what opportunities would he have for me to continue to do that, you know, in in English?

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_06 13:46

Because if I I can only go on that trip once a year, so I can gotta get some extra um extra evangelism, you know, now. So that's what you know, one thing is I hope the show does that, and that we can kind of portray our faith as something that we love not only because it's the right thing and that you know gives us a good relationship with God, but then why we want to, you know, why what that you know it's not like benefiting God, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Because he doesn't need us.

SPEAKER_06 14:15

He doesn't need us. We need him. Yep, we surely need him. So tell me about some more passions then. Passions?

SPEAKER_01 14:25

I like to I like to engage with young women. I like to engage with old women. I just like to engage with women, period. And I didn't realize that until I started working at uh I used to work at a homeless shelter. And I think that's where God really he really spoke to me then. And I was like, I I like doing this. I like, I like, and then I I felt like they liked talking to me, and then I felt like I had a lot to say to them and they were coming back to me. And so I was like, this is it. So that's where my passion came for just wanting to help and enlighten, enlighten women, young women, about the goodness of the Lord.

SPEAKER_06 15:10

Yeah. So what would you say um is kind of like your message to young women then the goodness of the Lord, and what else um do you think needs to be instilled in the these couple generations that are coming up?

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Know who you are in the Lord. Yeah, know who you are, know what the Lord has created you to be. Then once you learn that, then you'll be able to reciprocate the love. Because if you don't know love, then you're not gonna know him. You're not gonna understand him. And people can tell you, oh, God is love, and then you'll be like, Well, if he loved, he's so much love, why did this happen? Why did that happen? Well, he allows this to happen. I hear that a lot. I hear that a lot. And so I'm like, well, once you start learning how to love, then you'll understand. So that's I believe my message.

SPEAKER_06 15:58

And what would you say are some of the misconceptions and like lies that girls believe?

SPEAKER_01 16:04

So I feel that the young ladies don't know their worth. I feel that they don't value the things that God has put in us. I feel like it's directed because of things that they see, things that they hear. Nobody is instilling values in them. So they don't know value. They don't know that they're valuable. So they just feel like anything goes.

SPEAKER_06 16:29

Yeah. Do you think sometimes that um the parents will think that the church is gonna teach them something and then the church thinks that the parents are teaching them something, and then at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Then nobody's teaching nobody anything. So that's why I feel like it should be a lot of older women teaching younger women what how it goes, because that's what the Bible speaks on.

SPEAKER_06 16:48

Yeah. So when our church um was starting, um had a big launch for women's groups, there was a um evening study before they ended up breaking off into people's homes. Is we had a study and they were breaking up people into tables, and it was almost going to be like a ma like a young mom table, and I said, Absolutely not. I need some I need someone older than me.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

You need some wisdom.

SPEAKER_06 17:10

I'm like, I need some wisdom too, because I don't know what I'm doing. So like you know, we can always think we know what's going on, but we really don't. So it's like I want that people that are humble, um, and a little bit um older and wiser, but in a nice way, because sometimes it can come across as like you don't know anything, you're stupid. Or sometimes they say, I'm I'm experienced, I I've done I've lived 70 years, or you can be alive but not be humble or ki kind about what you're saying. So I value I valued you from when I first met you for being fun and warm and welcoming, not just saying, I'm I've been around the blog. You know, there's a difference there that and I can appreciate that you're friendly enough, and then you took an invitation to come record us up. Yes, I did. Yes, I did. So when I also when girls see um media and like TV music videos and stuff like that, and they see what's popular, um, there's not always enough uh Christian music. I mean there is, but then sometimes there it's not act like people don't know what's out there that could be Christian RB or that could be Christian hip hop. So then what are people seeing is people shaking their butts with no clothes on, and you know, or um let's talk tell me about what like some of the influences and things like you've um like that makes you passionate and then what you're gonna do about it.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

When well I could tell you what I did do about it, because when my daughter became of age, I never let my daughter watch videos. Never. I don't care if she babysat, I don't care if she went to be babysat. It was that's a no-no. And I and it was for that reason because I did not want her to see that as the image of what a young woman was supposed to be, you know. So I I sheltered her from that, but at the same time, she was different, you know, she was different than the other girls that were trying to wear the tight clothes and all that because she knew. But and then again, she didn't ever see it, so she didn't really have anything to compare it to.

SPEAKER_06 19:27

And she would say, Oh, that's weird.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Yeah, so then when she got older and um certain music in the car, I didn't care. She didn't listen to. We didn't play that type of music around her. And I remember one of my friends, I can't remember the song that was out, and we got in her car, and her baby was just back there just singing this song, and I'm saying, dude, know what this song is saying. And I know the baby didn't know what the song meant, but she knew the lyrics and she liked the music, and so I turned it off, and she was like, Oh girl, she said that all she listens to that all the time, and I'm saying it, but why? And why are you okay with that?

SPEAKER_06 20:08

That's not okay. I have to bite my tongue because some of the popular songs, there's like subliminal stuff, and because so you obviously know that the some of the hip hop is gonna is explicit and it's saying what it's saying. But pop music I found that like right secular pop is so subliminal where you might not know what they're talking about, but they've come up with this whole metaphor for something, and you're just like, What is wrong with you? And so it's like, and then they make it catchy. You're gonna put a bunch of singing, you're gonna have fun on your way to hell, basically. Exactly. Okay, well, this is gonna be super raunchy, but no one's gonna know it or whatever. And it's like, okay, but that's the deception of the enemy, though. Yeah, so there but the the good thing is there are now Christian artists for every genre and musical interests. There's like Christian reggae, Christian pop, Christian hip hop, Christian rap, Christian R and B, like Tori Kelly's a Christian now, and she just came up with a new album. So like, and so it's like even or even we can pray for people that that the world likes to have you know that they would have a God God encounter, you know?

SPEAKER_04 21:24

Yes, yes, that's true. That is true.

SPEAKER_06 21:27

So what is would you you brought your daughter up in the Lord, what would you say now uh is the work done now? She's a nice person.

SPEAKER_05 21:35

She's you know, my daughter. What's next for you? My daughter is Is she my age? Is she my age?

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Yeah. My daughter is awesome. And the reason I'm saying that is because she's taught me that kids listen, even if they don't do it right then, they listen. And so a lot of times when she's going through things right now. And she'll say, Well, Ma, you know, I really appreciate that you told me this. Or Ma, I remember when you told me that. And so it's like, oh, now you're snowing. You heard me. But now I hear myself saying a lot of things that my mom used to say. When she said it back then, it didn't, it it didn't register to me. But now that I'm older, now I'm like, now I know what she meant.

SPEAKER_06 22:24

Yeah, and that was a regular day for you, but you didn't realize how special and meaningful your regular parenting style was. So I, you know, that's my biggest prayer that the frustrations won't come out as much as the the joy and the silliness and the wisdom.

SPEAKER_04 22:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:39

Because I try to have like a healthy balance between like joking around and having fun, but then teaching her stuff, like you saw her scribbles and her journaling Bible. Like, because you know, some people say, Oh no, you can't write in your Bible, but now it's gotten more and more popular. Yeah. I want her as she even practices to learn to write, that she can look back and look at her Bible. Say, I wrote that. Yep, I wrote that on such and such and such a day. So what um, but as far as um influencing women from the you know, millennials and gen alpha and gen Z and all that, what um what's next for you?

SPEAKER_01 23:15

You said you like talking to women and I'm hoping to do that through my um my ministry.

SPEAKER_06 23:21

Uh-oh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

I had started a nonprofit called I'm a wife ministries. And I hope to do that. I want to teach classes. Um I really, my really, really ultimate goal, I would say, is I want to have a school for girls. I w I've always I don't know why God placed that in my heart, but I wanted to have a school for girls. I wanted to be accredited, and I want the curriculum to be centered around God.

SPEAKER_06 23:51

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

So that's that, but I have to start baby steps. So right now I just want to do the ministry, and that would be teaching classes, holding seminars, all that for young girls, but I'm gonna start that at age ten.

SPEAKER_06 24:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

On up to probably 18 or 19.

SPEAKER_06 24:10

Okay, so tell me, if it's called I am a wife, why would you start at 10?

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Because she needs to know her value at 10.

SPEAKER_06 24:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

She needs to know her value.

SPEAKER_06 24:19

It's I am a wife and I'm not a I'm not a side chick.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

I'm not I'm not just a baby mama. I'm a wife.

SPEAKER_06 24:28

So that's m giving standards for as they grow that you say, I'm not taking any crap from some loser down the road that I God wants me, God would have a good husband for me.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

He's gonna save me for that perfect person. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 24:44

So confidence and what would you say goes with that?

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Confidence, identity, confidence, identity, morals, um, values, just modesty. Modesty, especially modesty, yeah, that's a big one.

SPEAKER_06 25:00

Because we don't have to, you know, show show everything. Show it all because what we're not trying to prove ourselves to God. Like, so what God's done through Jesus on the cross is final, like that had the final say. So it's like whenever I feel like I um I'm embarrassing myself or I'm being too much or not enough or um or tempted to wear something weird. So I've never been like that, so it's hard for me to use that example. But somebody that would struggle with that, they don't have to prove themselves to have worth it. That Jesus wants to give them that, right? Yep.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Yep. You're perfect right there.

SPEAKER_06 25:40

So did you ever have like an aha moment, um, like as a teenager or something, that um your something your parents or um somebody said to you that made you feel uh like instill that in you, or did it start so much younger than that?

SPEAKER_01 25:53

It started from my mom from day one. Her mom always taught me that.

SPEAKER_06 25:58

Said you're so beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

No, no, she would say things like she never really, she always, no, when she said about the look, she would say, pretty is as pretty does. Okay, just because you might think you're cute or you might think if you're not acting that way, people are not gonna see that. So she would always say that. She would always um let me know that uh I was worth more than just anything common. She always built that in me. She always made me feel like if I did something, well, you can do more. And you can do more. And then I would be like, no, I can't. So I'm when I tell my friends this, they laugh. I never got a stanking in my life. Never.

SPEAKER_06 26:41

What?

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Never and the reason that I didn't, it wasn't because I was so good, because I wasn't, but it was but it was because I didn't do as much because I never wanted to lose the respect of my parents.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

It wasn't that I was worried about anything else but the respect. I never wanted them to look on me and be like, no. You know, because that would be so devastating to me. If I disappointed my mom, it would just be like, I felt so bad. So she taught me with respect instead, so she didn't have to. And if she raised her voice, that was enough for me.

SPEAKER_06 27:18

Did you feel like she talked to you sometimes like a a couple years older than you were to kind of treat you like you're growing up?

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Because I was the only child, so she only she didn't only have somebody to talk to. So it was everything, it was none of that little baby talk. She always sit up.

SPEAKER_06 27:33

You're growing like because I kind of feel like sometimes if w we don't give kids enough credit, like they they can they can learn more than we think. And so, because if any everybody I always um have to tell people to not, you know, you know, say that my daughter's so too smart or that oh how amazing she is. I'm like, you're gonna give her make her conceited or something. Like she's but she is like highly intelligent and very emotional. So as that plays out, I want to like sometimes we will have grown-up conversations and she like absorbs it. She knows like she kind of and she'll remember stuff that you don't think she'll remember, and then she'll be funny and like say random stuff where you're like, where did you come up? Like, where do you come up with these funny things?

SPEAKER_01 28:17

They understand they we we give kids that little lenience because they think that they're that age, but really they know.

SPEAKER_06 28:26

Like they're just like they're I'll say, Okay, my daughter's gonna be five, then she is a future kindergartner, she's future first grader. It's like not only does she gonna her teachers are gonna teach her actual like literal skills for reading and writing and all that, but they'll have um they'll have the Bible stuff and they'll have stuff. So it's like if I give her building blocks now, then it's something for her to cut um that she's gonna be a little bit ahead and have those um scriptures in her heart already. So and like she learns Psalm 23. I kid you not, at um 30 years old, that was the first time I knew it by heart.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

My mom made me, I had to learn it and I had to say it to them every night.

SPEAKER_06 29:08

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

I had to say it every night. I would uh sentence by sentence till I actually knew the whole thing. Every night that was a thing.

SPEAKER_06 29:17

What um what other verses stuck out to you like when you were a kid or a teenager?

SPEAKER_01 29:24

I think no certain scripture ever really stuck out to me but that one, because that one was when I was made to learn. Um, but as I got older and started going through things, then it was uh be still and know that I am God. And the reason of that is because I'm always trying to figure out something. I'm always trying to figure it out. Um, you know, and then somebody was telling me, it was like, so what are you praying for if you still trying to figure it out and that registered with me? Oh like you are you are fussing over something and oh yes, if it doesn't go my way, I'm like, okay, so what can I do? You know, I'm always gonna try to do it.

SPEAKER_06 30:06

You wanna make something better, or what can I how can I make this work next time?

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Or you know and so now I'm learning that sometimes you just got to trust the process. If it is nothing that you can do, you just gotta be still and wait on him. Yeah, and it's in his timing.

SPEAKER_06 30:23

So yeah, that's kind of where we're been at with our with our technology. See one microphone working, not you know, where's the other one you might ask? It's couldn't we we're trying to make it work for like an hour and it didn't want to behave.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

But it's okay.

SPEAKER_06 30:40

So we're gonna we're being still, and sometimes that means different stuff, or like, you know, relax a little, take a take a breath, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:48

But it's still working.

SPEAKER_06 30:49

So we're you know, and then that's um, you know, because we're juggling, you know, I want this is kind of I'm trying to lean into this as more of a full-time gig because there's a lot that goes into it that I didn't realize until I got started. So, like, and then you'll see um at as you get a nonprofit started, there's gonna be a lot of ins and outs where you're like, I gotta tell people about this, you know?

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Yeah. So that's the thing right there. It's just like it's just starting, and then I'm hearing things from different people, and you have to do this, and you have to do that, and you need to do this, and you need to do that, and I'm like, What do you mean? Oh, okay. I just want to go out there and teach, okay?

SPEAKER_06 31:25

I'm like, I just want to have fun. Yeah, like literally. So it's like all um, you know, I told you a little bit earlier, it's like when you have an idea, then there you'll have to have branding, right? So it's a logo, it's colors, it's fonts on Canva. It's all you know, some I mean there's Canva, then I think there's Adobe something or other, but that's for people that are in in it, not just like practice. But uh um tell me more about the nonprofit idea. So like when you get started, what would you say is your like you said that your first step is to start something. What would you say you can st would be the first uh um service or education you can offer as like a beginner?

SPEAKER_01 32:12

First, I want to do a seminar.

SPEAKER_06 32:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

First I'll well really first I want to do uh kind of like a meet and greet. I wanna I want to be able to have a meet and greet once the word is put out there so they people can come in and really see what it is that I'm trying to do. Okay. Then I want to do a seminar. And then I want it to trickle down into kind um, I wanna say 90-day.

SPEAKER_06 32:38

Like a kind of like a mentorship program?

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Yes, 90. That was just gonna be said. 90 day mentorship program. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 32:45

So would you say that would look kind of like a women's conference where you would um invite people in and there would be like lunch and then you know, different, you know, session one, session two, and you know, get some merch or something. Yes, yes, I need the I need merch. Yeah. Um I'll talk to you more about that in the future. Oh, okay. And um that sounds so much fun. And then when I was in middle school, there was something called it's great to be a girl. But it was like it was not religious at all, and so and I couldn't really tell you what their main goal was. I just remembered doing like crafts and stuff, and it was supposed to be like a fun thing to that we did. I the funny I just got reminded of that because you know, but when you say I'm a wife, you're building like the future of a young woman. Yes, you're saying you're not just um you're not trash, you're not somebody it's for somebody to use like emotionally or sexually or any of that, but you want to build that um strong foundation on Christ, yes, not on the world.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

Not on the world. That would be perfect. You said it perfect.

SPEAKER_06 33:52

I'll get the transcript of that for you later. Oh, okay. We'll put that in your mission thing, you know, having we're building identity in young women um to have the strength and character for future endeavors. That's not not at work. It's it's a work in progress, right? Yes. But that's um so amazing that and then as you you know, so tell me what you do now. What do you work do? Um you said you met me at the Christian bookstore, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:25

I work part-time at the Faith Christian bookstore. I work, my main job is at the YWCA. I'm a empowerment coach at the YWCA. And then I have I do uh in-home care. I only have one client. I've had him for 28 years. Yeah, so that's family. So I I don't really consider him a job, but he's family. So those are the three things that I do.

SPEAKER_06 34:50

Okay. And so when you said you with the um used to volunteer at the homeless shelter, now you get to see other women that are shopping for book Christian books. Yes. So how much do you incorporate like Christian fiction or Christian living type of books besides like a morning devotional into your routine?

SPEAKER_01 35:07

I I buy at least two books, if not more, a week. My paycheck really goes to books. And it but it's it's knowledge for me. Yeah. Because I have to be ready for when the questions come when I start teaching the stuff.

SPEAKER_06 35:27

So if I could say, well, what do I do when I'm arguing with my kid? You're like, first of all, you're an adult. What do you do?

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Are you arguing with a kid?

SPEAKER_06 35:36

Like, you know, I always joke around, be like, I'm not gonna argue with you, and then we keep saying, trying to get the last word, be like, just do what you're told, right? But um, right behind you is my um most of my Christian living section besides um a birthday card. Um and so, you know, commentaries and um Christian living, and then back down here, the kids, and then Christian fiction, more Christian living, and then somewhere back behind me is the not the secular fiction. But um, so I've gotten a few of recommendations from you guys, but what's can you speak to some readers on some of your favorite authors?

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Um, fiction and I don't have a favorite author. I I cannot tell that I don't have a favorite author. What I do is because I'm normally putting the books out. I'll see a book, I'll open it. I can look at one page in a book and be like that's what I need. So I can't say I have a favorite.

SPEAKER_06 36:37

How do you um how would you you say everyone you can there's a term don't judge a book by its cover, but sometimes you judge it by a uh the front, the back, the um first couple pages.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

I do it by the page.

SPEAKER_06 36:50

So how would you know, like, do you say that there's a phrase or two that you say that person does not have the depth or the you know the foundation that I would personally want to like?

SPEAKER_01 37:04

I have bought some books that are just like, no. But I don't know till I start reading them.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

So, you know, then they go in a pile by it. I don't get rid of them. It's because it's hard, it you know, it's because it could be somebody's else's niche, not mine. So a lot of them I don't know, you know, until I get to reading it.

SPEAKER_06 37:24

But it's hard because where would you draw the line between um don't yuck somebody else's yum versus that's not doesn't that's not really biblical, and why are you saying like what why is this a Christian publishing uh something? Because sometimes you I wonder why s how some things get slipped through the cracks when it's like a girl power like motivational thing, and I'm just like that's not even I'm like that's not even biblical. Like, cause a lot of times I'm really careful too with some of the phrasings that we hear in um in society. It's like, oh, you are good enough, and you are just like you are so special and all these things. It's like there's a good there's a fine line between empowering women and then saying um, you know, saying, Oh, well, you're good enough and do um follow your heart and do what makes you happy.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Yeah, I'm just like I was gonna say that do what makes me happy.

SPEAKER_06 38:24

No, like that's not show show me. That's not you're not gonna find that. Or um God's never gonna give you more than you can bake handle.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_06 38:33

That's not a Bible verse.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

No, it's not. But it's said so many times that people think that. They just automatically think, and you'll say, Well, we'll show it to me in the Bible.

SPEAKER_06 38:40

Or they'll or they'll change um spare the rod, um, they'll say, Spare the rod, spoil the child is a Bible verse, and that's not that's not a Bible verse either. So I have to be careful because some people are gonna be like, huh, and I'm like, and they're not gonna understand what I'm saying. I'm like, the rod and the shepherd staff was protecting a sheep from danger and their own actions, but it wasn't like to just hit them for the sake of it. So it's like, and it wasn't like smacking them, it was like they're like, oh, you need help. Get over that or anointing our heads with oil because some they could get stuck in something and the oil would, you know, yeah, help them. So you you've dug into those things a few times. You're like, what is this talking about?

SPEAKER_01 39:29

Well, a lot a lot, a lot of it, I do.

SPEAKER_06 39:33

But if because it especially too, if we get some of these things twisted, then you're creating it's like your the new age Bible for people that and then you're somebody else's Bible. So it's like you don't know what is gonna hit somebody and be an encouragement. So if they're if you're giving somebody like a Pinterest pin or a oh, that sounds like a good quote, please make it from the Bible so that way you're passing along true wisdom.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

Because you might be the only person that they ever hear got about God. So you want to make sure that you're a good representation of him.

SPEAKER_06 40:09

Because if you ask Moses or Noah or Joseph or any or Gideon, that was everything that God told them was they didn't want to do it, and it w they didn't think they could handle it. But God said, Trust me and I'll walk with you and I'll go before you. And so, you know, and we could c combat these misconceptions forever, but that's not that um but as long as people can, you know, f even go on biblegateway.com and you can search keywords and find and say, is that actually is that a Bible verse or not? Because you can always double check, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:53

Yeah, unless it's yourself to show yourself approved.

SPEAKER_06 40:56

So what would you say if you um would be some of your top um advice for maybe a teenage girl or uh early like 1920s, early 20s. Say they're going through say they have had a couple schmucky boyfriends and you gotta give them a little um.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

I would first try to find out what are you looking for. What are you looking for?

SPEAKER_02 41:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

You know, because you have to be searching for something in order to keep repeating the same cycle. So it's something that you're looking for. So I have to identify what it is. And when I find out that, then I know how to combat. Yep.

SPEAKER_06 41:42

And they can be like repeating behaviors maybe that pass down from um, oh well, my mom actually did this. Because you'll do what you see, but my grandma had schmucky boyfriends and my mom had you know, whatever, then it's okay. But you are your you can say we're gonna break the chain. We don't we don't have to do what they what they did, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:03

But sometimes you do it without even realizing that you're doing it.

SPEAKER_06 42:06

Yep, exactly. But then when you're s can ru um if somebody's ready to listen, yeah, then you can kind of pick up on those things, right? Yes. So when I interviewed a friend who uh ministers in juvenile detention centers, it's r um quite the opposite of the Romans road that you would hear be like, oh, you have sinned and you need to not do that, and um Jesus died for you, and then you can go to um you don't want to go to hell. Like I always I always chuckle because I'm like, who is that working for?

unknown 42:41

Nobody.

SPEAKER_06 42:42

Well, I guess back in the day, maybe they probably they printed out on tracks and then they say, You don't have to go to hell, or you this is how the Jesus is the way to heaven. And I'm just like, I like the little cards at the store that have like really sweet sayings on them. Yeah, I like the sweet say I give them out to like cashiers and you know um hairdressers or whoever. Um the at Big B I gave them to the people making my drinks the other day. So it's like when you have sweet sayings or an encouraging verse that somebody's struggling if somebody you don't know if somebody goes to be struggling with somebody something. But when uh when Mickey was walking into these detention centers, sometimes the kids have their walls up and they don't want to talk to you. They they're like been through it. Like you don't know what they got um what they're in there for. It could be something big, something small. Um, but it's not you're not gonna be beat 'em up with the Bible to get them to believe.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Because then they'll rebuild.

SPEAKER_06 43:47

But you're if you can be their friend and then so if you're talk um so those kids need somebody to show up and to be an inf like a good influence and to not give up on somebody. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

You have to meet them where they are. Yeah. You can't just start slapping them upside the head because they've already been hurt. So you have to gain that trust. And sometimes you have to just, like they say, meet them where they are before you can take them where you need them to go. And so that's that's the nine times out of ten is something that they're dealing with, but they'll talk to the right person if they feel that they can trust them. And you have to gain that trust. You just can't just come in, like you say, beat them with the Bible. Well, why'd you do that? It's not in the Bible that you're gonna die and you're gonna go to hell. And you're like, oh, okay. Well, I guess I'm I'm gonna go to hell. Okay, don't know where hell is, but uh heart is not a good place, but you know, that's where I'm gonna go.

SPEAKER_06 44:41

That's not um like the wrath of God from like the Old Testament, all that, you know, he's given us Jesus to pay the ultimate price, so then we want to respond to him with obedience. Yes, not because something bad's gonna happen, but because when we like most of us can say, Well, we have been there, done that, there like And I'm still here.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Yeah, and he has to love me because don't nobody else know what I did, but he knows what I did, and if he still allowed me to walk on this earth, he has to love me.

SPEAKER_06 45:19

Well, I was I was gonna say, we don't wanna we like we don't wanna sin because it is bad and it is gonna take us down a path we don't want to do, but we just have to be gentle when we do those things, right? So there's a ministry, and I I'll have to figure out what it was called, but I when I was just thinking, um, if you with that the name and your heart behind the nonprofit and your organization, um, if you want to think in the future, there's a um a group in I want to say maybe the Las Vegas area, but they actually go into like strip clubs and they bring food in for the girls. Okay. So they like no, it's a whole it's a whole thing, right? So they bring food in and then they are like talk and um and build relationships. And so there was a movie out by the Kendrick Brothers called He Calls Me Daughter.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

I haven't seen that one. I haven't seen that. I saw all the Kendrick Brothers movies.

SPEAKER_06 46:18

So this one was newer, it's actually like documentary style.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 46:22

So they taught um they talked to the CEO of um In N Out Burger, uh older um comedian lady, and then um a girl that um was a former um in the in the clubs. I don't um and then so she had a really cool story of like, oh yeah, she said I didn't work that night. I would have avoided I wouldn't come in if I knew those ladies were coming. But then she um came back and then they kept coming back, and next thing you know, they were friends, and she um she quit working there and all that because she just thought that was um she like ran away from home or whatever. And then just these um women with like father wounds.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 47:09

So that would be something maybe to look into that oh that people are looking for love in the wrong place, right? So um well, how does that relate to the rest of your um like story and why you felt inspired to do the um I am a wife?

SPEAKER_01 47:28

Because I don't want to see any young girl go down the wrong way and don't know why. You know, don't know why because nobody's tapped into her, nobody's heard her, she's been overlooked. So that that's fine. And I encountered a lot of I encountered a lot of girls just from the shelter. I had just had a couple girls the other night call me. Um mama Pam, because that's what they affectionately call me. Mama Pam, I need you to pray for me. I'm going through something, and uh I'll reach out and I'm like, what's going on? And they'll and they and they attentively listen to me. So I'm like, okay, God put something in here, they're coming to you. So that's the thing. And I like I say, to me, it's all about trust. You have to trust and you cannot judge. And it might not be your story, but it's theirs.

SPEAKER_06 48:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:25

And you have to validate it.

SPEAKER_06 48:27

You know, acknowledge the pain and the hurt.

SPEAKER_01 48:30

Yeah, and then where are we gonna go from there? And that's what drives me, because I wanna I wanna be there.

SPEAKER_06 48:36

Yeah, people to take a few steps forward and not stay stuck in stuck in that mess, right?

SPEAKER_04 48:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 48:42

So what else? Um so if you've been on the growing up right, you know, straight and narrow, um, was there anything on like for since then that was like, oh Lord, this is a mess. I need your help.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

After I got married and my husband passed, that that was a really trying time for me because I never expected that to happen. So that's when if I if I hadn't had my foundation in the Lord, I wouldn't be right here right now. And so that was a time when I had to be still because I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do because it was instantaneous, it wasn't anything planned, so it was instantaneous. And so it's just like you go from seeing one thing and then the next day, your life is totally gone. The life that you knew is totally gone. So now I'm here, so who do I have? And that's when I had to lean on the Lord.

SPEAKER_06 49:40

Yeah. So you had that foundation.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

So if I hadn't had that foundation, I would have never known who to go to. Because it was many a nice I called out. I called out, I cried, I'm on, and it was just and it was amazing because he showed up. He was just like, I pray about something, and then it's like, okay. And then the next day, or maybe the day after it came, and I was like, wow. And the first thing to me was like, wow, he hears me. Because sometimes you pray for things and you don't get that instant answer. So you're just like, you don't think, okay, well, I'll pray about it again. And then you don't get that answer again, and you pray about it again. So then you're like, is he really, really listening? But when you know and nobody else knows what you prayed for, and then it happens, it's like, wow, he hears me.

SPEAKER_06 50:29

You had a little example of that?

SPEAKER_01 50:31

Um, when my husband passed, I was staying in a house, and um, me and him both worked two jobs apiece. And so now it's just me and my income. And I was trying to make sure that I stayed up on top of the mortgage, and it was just like like wow. I just one day I was just like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I don't know. And I remember sitting in the bed and I just was crying. I was like, Lord, I don't know what you want me to do. I don't know. And um the lady called me like maybe an hour or so later, and she was like, Um, you know, we heard what happened. And I was like, Yeah, we just we know we were concerned, she said, but we were thinking, would it help you if we lowered your monthly payment? And I said, had to be God, because who lowers a monthly payment? They don't care, they don't care, they want their money, and I was like, oh my god, and I was like, yes, and she was like, okay, so starting next month, you can only have to send us this. And I said, It could only been God. And like I said, he he is many circles, is many instances, the cars. I weren't I wasn't paying, two of the cars were paid for and two weren't. And um, we had kind of like a good relationship with the car company that we were dealing with. And uh one day she called me, the accountant called me, and she was like, So Pam, what's going on? And I said, because I had got behind. And um I said, just life. I said, um, she said, so what do you want to do? And I said, well, I don't want to get rid of them. I've invested too much money in them. And she was like, okay. She said, well, give me a minute. She said, I'll call you back tomorrow. Do you think you can come in tomorrow? And I said, Yeah. And she gave me a time, and so I went in. She said, and we were talking to the owner and everything. She said, and you guys have always been upright people. We've always enjoyed you guys coming in as a couple. And I was like, Really? But my heart's still broke. I hear what she's saying, but my heart is broke. And she was like, so we we thought about this. And she said, she had a piece of paper and she did like this, and she said, open it. She said, Would this work for you? And I said, Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

What?

SPEAKER_01 53:11

And so what they did, they they put them together, they put both the payments together, but they dropped the interest. So it made it more affordable for me to pay, because I was paying interest on two.

SPEAKER_02 53:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:24

And I was like, and I walked out of there, and all I could do was cry. I was in the parking lot, like, God, you showed up. God, you heard me again. You know, so those things, like I say, you can tell people about the love of the Lord, and Lord, but until you've really experienced the Lord.

SPEAKER_06 53:42

And He He wants to um answer our prayers. Yes, yes. And um, and sometimes those God winks are serious, like financially, and sometimes they're fun and sweet. Um, one time I was wor um driving a small group and I just thought, or like it was probab I think it might have been after my second episode, or I don't know. But I said, Lord, it would be really fun to just see a groundhog outside on the road. Because I haven't seen like they're they're common, but they're not common. You see you see you see them around, but not very often. So the next thing you know, I'm turning off um off of 47, where you go, like I think it's like Freeland Road and you curve around, it's like country, it's like not before you get to Freeland up here. And then next thing you know, I turn onto the road, and there's like a groundhog just chilling, chilling on the side of the road. And I'm like, that is so funny. And like, you know, he wants you to, you know, when we have a conversation with him and he w he wants us to commune with him, and then he wants to talk back, it's like that's the thing I struggle with, is like sitting still, sitting still and waiting. And and seeing what maybe it's uh maybe it's a feeling of an idea or something special that he could have um wanted me to pray for or you know do something, you know, do something with my life or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

See I could be be still.

SPEAKER_06 55:05

Yeah. That's a huge one. So where can we find you if somebody wants to know about how to empower young women and grow up continue to grow in the Lord?

SPEAKER_01 55:17

You can find me on Instagram and Facebook as of now. And it's called it'll be called And it'll be called I'm a Wife Ministries.

SPEAKER_06 55:25

I I'm a wife or I am a wife.

SPEAKER_01 55:28

I'm a wife ministry.

SPEAKER_06 55:30

I'm a wife. We're not we're not anybody side check, any anybody's on anybody's girl to be used and abused and thrown to the side that we're special and important to God.

unknown 55:42

Amen.

SPEAKER_06 55:42

And we're his princesses. Yep, we're his daughters. So when he when we're when we know that we're a daughter and we know that we're important, that can help us to know our worth and our value that we have through Jesus. Not nothing that we do on our own, but all through his grace, right? Yes. So, as always, thank you for joining me. And thank you for joining me. Thank you for having me. Thank you. And um, go ahead and check out a messy amenpod.com. Find her on socials. I'm a wife ministries, and um, we will see you next time.

unknown 56:19

You are not alone.