#5 The Adult Onset Swimmer

In this episode, Cal, Emma, and Tim delve into the nuances of transitioning into triathlon as an adult, focusing heavily on the challenges and solutions of adult-onset swimming and open water skills. Whether you're new to swimming or trying to improve in open water, you'll find actionable tips and motivation.

Key topics covered:

• Transitioning from elite to age-group triathlon and managing expectations
• How to approach swimming when starting later in life, including mental barriers and physical adaptations
• Essential equipment for adult swimmers and open water athletes—what’s useful and what’s a crutch
• Technique fundamentals: body balance, arm recovery, body relaxation, and efficiency
• Structuring swim sessions: short frequent workouts versus long continuous swim practices
• Overcoming open water fears: sighting, cold water, waves, and crowd navigation
• Benefits of swimming with a squad and using video feedback for improvement
• Wetsuit strategies: fit, impact on stroke, and managing new sensations
• Building confidence through consistent exposure and gradual skill development

Timestamps:

00:00 - Welcome and episode overview: transitioning from elite triathlete to age grouper

00:44 - Common challenges faced by adult swimmers stepping into open water

02:10 - Techniques for improving water feel and efficient stroke mechanics

03:38 - The importance of body balance and relaxation in swimming

04:54 - Equipment myths and essentials: fins, paddles, snorkels, and wetsuits

06:48 - Structuring swim sessions: frequency, drills, and technique focus

08:52 - Developing speed reserve and intensity in training

09:25 - Common obstacles: cold water, fear, bulkiness of wetsuits, and sighting issues

11:16 - How to adapt training for open water conditions and environment

13:27 - Using video feedback and squad consistency to accelerate improvement

15:18 - The importance of patience in stroke correction and incremental progress

16:31 - The impact of regular exposure, especially during injury or setbacks

18:48 - Tips for fitting and choosing wetsuits for different body types

21:38 - Strategies for open water practice: sighting, waves, and navigating crowds

24:19 - The mental aspect: staying relaxed and managing panic triggers

27:00 - Final tips: sensory awareness, body tension, and embracing imperfection

29:30 - Connecting pool and open water swimming: how to transfer skills effectively

34:37 - Wrap-up: continuous learning and encouraging a relaxed, consistent approach

Come find us Cartel Coaching — Swim. Bike. Run. Together.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Team, welcome to Cartel Coaching. I am Callum Millwood. I'm an ex-professional triathlete and three times IMN 70.3 champion, and now I'm getting a proper reintroduction into the sport of triathlon as an age grouper. I spent a number of years at the pointy end of the sport, and now I've got a business, a life, a family, and the same 24 hours as everyone else who is trying to figure out how to be competitive again. And I tell you what, it is super humbling and it's interesting. What I bring to the table is the elite side of things. I'm living the age group reality right now. Not gonna pretend that they're the same thing. With me every episode is Tim Brazier, who coaches everyone from first-timers to Olympians, and M, our resident age grouper, who is keeping us honest. This is Cartel Coaching, and let's get into it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Okay, welcome back to Cartel Coaching. Now, boys, I'm gonna tell you a story. So once upon a time, a mid-30s girl decided that she was gonna become a triathlete. And at that time, she was really only a runner, so she had a bit of work to do in the swimming and biking department. Now, this girl wasn't overly worried about swimming. She thought to herself, I can swim. I did sports carnivals, primary school, by the way. So one day she got her togs on and she headed to the pool to discover that she wasn't a swimmer swimmer. She was the quintessential adult onset swimmer. And since that moment, the struggle has just been real. So that girl, that girl is me. Which brings us to today's topic, which is all about adult onset swimmers. Uh now I'm extremely keen for this one because I've been swimming for about two and a half years. Uh, and uh, you know, I feel like I've really reached a ceiling with as far as I can go in terms of muscling my way through the water. So I'm gonna be treating this one almost as my personal coaching session with you, Tim and Cal. So I'd love to hear, where do you think we're going wrong?

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Where are we going wrong? Uh well, firstly, you needed to learn to swim more before you're age 10 for your first mistake. Where were my tiger parents? Yeah. Um yeah, secondly, it's hard being a sinker, eh? It's a real challenge. Um it's a real tough one to work your way through. It's such a f it's the the mysterious feel and finesse of swimming that coming in later on is really hard. And in the end, there's a whole lot of things that that add up into that. And having watched there's a guy called Andrew McLeod, who's in the Cupcake Cartel actually, fantastic, he's in his late 60s, only learnt to swim about nine or ten years ago, is now rolling 100s on like a 140 on a two-minute base pretty strongly. And that's been really inspirational to watch his commitment to it. And he's turned up regularly, had his arse handed to in sessions, had one-on-one technique sessions, worked hard on his technique, used his toys where necessary, but he's progressed. And he's a really cool example showing that you can get somewhere with your swimming. And he's still doing PBs now in the pool. So 25 minute sprint PBs, he's doing thresholds, PBs, and moving forward, so it can show that you can work your way forward, and it it's just getting your building blocks in place uh with your technique um first and foremost, and then layering on sessions on top of that, which are achievable on a regular basis. And I think actually one of the biggest forsakes why people reach a ceiling, like you're reaching M is that it's the same with running, we don't create enough speed reserve. So we get in and we'll just swim lengths and we'll might swim at zone three quite a lot because we're all just sucking in the big ones because you're just trying to survive. But really, how often do you go? I'm gonna go do 25s on a two-minute turnaround or one-minute turnaround, and really teach yourself to swim fast like you might need to to run fast, you know. Can I we talked about this a little bit a couple other podcasts, you know? Can I really learn to run fast? Can I do sprints on the bike? Can I become can I get these muscles activated in these right patterns? And that's a that's a big one, I've I believe, and something that all of us need to keep in our programs across all three disciplines as we age. That's really good.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

And Cal, what about you?

SPEAKER_02 4:47

I swam my whole life, so I've been quite lucky. However, I think just like running and biking, there's certain people that have a much better feel for the water, and that's a term that you'll probably hear a lot is the feel for the water. So um, you know, it's often a lot of people say, hey, tall people are better swimmers, short people not not great swimmers, but there's good examples of shorter people. There was a Kiwi uh triathlete, Karen Doe, who was a pretty short guy who's an excellent swimmer. Uh Dylan McNeese was an excellent swimmer, so there's there's no uh rhyme or reason sometimes. These are guys that just have a really good feel for grabbing the water and pulling themselves through it. Whereas people that don't have a good feel for the water might be, you know, might sort of have the sensation of having noodle arms where they just feel like their arms are going through the water, not catching anything. So the challenge I I feel like in triathlon, a big barrier to entry is the swim. So if you didn't swim as a kid and didn't do surf-life saving, you know, that's another sort of uh layer on top as well. The open water can be terrifying. But there are ways to inject some life into your swim, even if you're starting triathlon at 30, 40, 50, 60 years old. Like Tim said with Andrew McLeod, there's still plenty of opportunities, and there's a few caveats to a lot of this as well. I think swimming is one of those sports where we very seldom swim continuously. We don't dive in and just swim for half an hour non-stop, we break it up. Whereas if you go for a three-hour bike ride, you might just ride for three hours. So maybe Tim wants to dive into that a little bit and explain why we break up our swim into bite-sized pieces and how we structure like a swim session.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Yeah, well, I think swimming, the hypoxic component is such a big part of it. You know, we don't you don't have that when you're cycling and running. You can breathe really easily. And you can be pretty metabolically efficient as well, riding and running, and cardiovascular efficient as well. And it's it's quite a challenge to develop that ability in the pool. Like how often do you see someone go into a pool and within two, three lengths they're actually they're standing at the end, their eyeballs are about to pop out and they're turning blue because they're struggling for oxygen. Yeah. Taker. Whereas uh, you know, people can get on a bike and and easily ride for 20 minutes off the couch and probably be okay on a flat piece of ground. Um, you know, they can go for a walk continuously for hours and and and build up some resilience quite quickly in that regard. But swimming's different because you're you're lying on the cardiovascular stress with that hypoxic stress, and then there's the technique element to it where if you don't get your technique right, you're often dragging your feet on the ground, which creates a significant hydrodynamic barrier to getting anywhere near a state of efficiency. Um as we get better in life, in swimming, sorry, we then seek out that by putting a band around our ankles to try and create that drag, but we start off naturally with it. Um and that I think those are the complexities you work in. So in swimming we have to break it down into bite-sized pieces, and we only ever really see when you get to that expert level, people starting to do reps of eight hundred to thousands, fifteens, or doing silly sessions like 5x2k in the pool for an open water swimmer, which um just do my head in. Uh but that's that it takes a long time to evolve to that and be really efficient to achieve that. So we break down these sessions where we'll have a really easy warm-up where we might use fins. We always go towards some drills who are starting to activate ourselves in the right way. You know, it's my muscles activating the right patterns. I've got my core locked in, my head in the right place. Then we start to build some intensity into a main set and then cool down. And it's quite a consistent structure, really, across a lot of programs. It's a it's a really staged program.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

As an adult onset swimmer, what are what are some of the challenges you have found uh with swimming? Going to the pool.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

No, um I think for me it it was it was really it's it's been all of it, right? Like, yeah, swimming during winter, it's cold, it's miserable. In terms of actually learning to swim, it's having any sort of correction. So I think that's been part of my challenge is I just jumped in and had a crack. I didn't even have a coach in the beginning. I didn't even have a program. I was just uh vibes-based swimmer, just having a go. And I I was doing what you were saying, Tim, just doing these really long lengths and just trying to go as far as I could. So I was I was swimming, I was doing five K's in the pool, just continuous, basically, like just stopping randomly every now and then. But I think what actually happened to me is uh doing that, I just sort of ingrained all of these not so great uh behaviours. So I s I swim in a pretty busy pool. I'm at Sydney Olympic Park and it's it's chockers. So there's there's often you know six to twelve people in a lane, and so I actually found that really intimidating. So that that actually led to me swimming with my head looking forward more, and so I have to really think about my head position. It's not natural for me anymore because my natural position is sort of head up, and then just my stroke. I really resonate with noodle arms. Like I don't really feel like I can feel the water sometimes. Sometimes sometimes I can, like and I go, wow, this is what swimming feels like, and I feel like I've got it, but as quickly as I've got it, it disappears.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

So it's a mystery. Often we talk about how um, you know, swimming, it's probably the most one of the most technical of the three sports in triathlon. Um, you know, you might focus on a certain element of your stroke and then you forget another part of the stroke, and then your coach might ask you to do an interval set where you've got to swim faster, and then you just forget everything. Uh, what are some of the ways you you know, like if you could summarize things and bullet point some key things for improvement for a swimmer as an adult, would it uh how would you summarize that? Like, is it just a higher frequency of getting to the pool? Is it using more equipment? Is it breaking it down into bite-sized pieces, you know, different sets, working on different speeds? What are some of the things you would um push people towards?

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Yeah, I think if you've got the space and the time, having short frequent sessions when you're beginner is actually more valuable than trying to turn up twice a week and smash out 4K or 5k. Because you can go back with some intention, swim a broken down 2k and really focus on certain elements of your stroke along the way. And the key part of when you're doing that is you're only trying to work on one piece at a time. And as you start to stack those up, that part will keep improving, and then you you'll be able to let it go a little bit and work on another part of the stroke, and then they'll start to piece themselves together. The great thing now is we've all got these phones, so having a friend go along and film you is actually really valuable. A lot of people haven't seen the cell swim. Like people would think, oh look, my catch looks beautiful, and then I'm standing on the side of the pool and I can just hear the of the hands smashing the water on entry, you know, and the the elbow dropping as well, and it's uh it it becomes really visible if you can have a phone there and people can point it out to you. So those those are two really good starting points. And then it's it's once you start to engage in your technique, the key point is that I look for people is you're trying to find balance in your body. So we always talk about body for balance, arms and legs for power. And you're looking to try to find balance through your body, so your head position and your hip position is really important. And then being able to do that on your front and your sides is a really good starting point. And then it leaves you the ability to be able to start to put your hands in the right position because if you're not balanced, your hands and your arms are going searching to balance you instead of actually pulling the water, or as we'll talk about, more so grabbing the water and you're trying to pull yourself past that point in the water because that's how you move forward. If you're just pulling the water, you're you're probably gonna stay in the same spot. Just be a hamster on a wheel. Um trying to pull yourself apart. And then the next part is I think my next bullet point would be trying to enhance your speed. So, alright, we're gonna do multiple reps, short, fast work and a repetitive basis. And that might be every second day, depending on how often you can go. And then you're you're building those reps, and then you might build up the duration of those reps until you can hold your speed, and then you start to play around with the rest intervals on those as well and reduce them down. And you know, it might be that for you to swim 1k with really good technique and good speed, you have to do that all in 25s or all in 50s, and that's okay. Um the hard part with all of that, um, as you guys know, as you as you mentioned, Carol, you go into a squad, because I need to be pushed, it's really hard mentally to do swimming by yourself. And then suddenly you're just smashing lengths out, um, and you've got someone on your feet, you're on someone's feet, and then you're trying to tumble turn around everybody else, you can tumble turn, and it becomes a real big nightmare. So trying to get yourself an environment in a squad which gives space is really important for me. So having good 10-second gaps and there's time and space for you to focus on technique.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

I think a key thing there is if you can get to a local squad, it will help you immensely. If you can find a coach as well that will provide feedback, which is, you know, like Tim said, if you can get a friend to film you, that's great. Um, because what you think you're doing versus what you're actually doing, um uh could be two different things as well. So if you could get a coach, a swim coach that's engaged with you and you're like, hey coach, um, can you just make sure my arms aren't crossing over? Can you just make sure uh certain things, if it uh if it's a coach that's invested in you um and wants to see you improve and you you know you're turning up to training, you're investing in the the relationship as well, that can help a lot. But just getting along to a swim squad, uh it can it'll help you uh as well achieve the duration, the distance perhaps you would otherwise not achieve by yourself. So mentally, as Tim said, it is really hard to get to the pool by yourself, and oftentimes it's the first session of the week that gets dropped. Um so I would recommend if you can get along to a local squad, that would be a great starting point. M, have you got anything that's helped you in that regard?

SPEAKER_00 15:51

I think it's been consistency. So the biggest gains that I had in my swimming was actually when I broke my leg because it was all that I could do. So even though I wasn't wasn't coached at the time and I I was just kind of winging it, being in the pool consistently five days a week is actually where I saw the biggest gains. And um, and actually it's been interesting, uh Tim, uh, since you become my coach, I I have sort of changed my swimming a a little bit. So pre-U, I I think I was relying a little bit too much on pool toys, to be honest. So um, so back when I broke my leg, all I was doing was pulling. Um, no pull toys, no nothing. It was just me, my legs were sort of band together and I was just focusing on pull. And so it it was helping. And then as I just got, I don't know, tired, fatigued over the pool, I started introducing a lot of other things and things that weren't actually in my program either. Like I was just adding stuff because I couldn't keep going. Like fins, for example. I became very reliant on fins to get me through. So I was I was just bringing them in as soon as I started feeling tired when I really shouldn't have been, and uh paddles as well, when I just wanted the session to be over. And and so what I found is by doing too much of that and not enough just regular swimming, I think it's actually just impacted my ability to swim. So I've been making a real um concerted effort the last couple of weeks to not rely on the on the fins. So I don't even take them to the pool uh at the moment or the paddles, like unless it says paddles, which it hasn't yet. Uh and um and I I'm feeling a lot better to be honest, and I'm I'm actually starting to feel a bit more confident in the pool, which I was definitely losing before.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

Tim, what are some of the essential uh pieces of equipment that we need? We obviously there's so many different toys now these days. There's neoprene shorts, there's um there's a lot of people that rely on these items as a crutch, and it can almost lead them into a false sense of security that they're swimming much faster than they are. Yeah, what are what are some of the myths that we can dispel? Um for for like your regular age group that's getting to the pool three times a week, what are some of the things we could do without and some of the things that are non-negotiable that we should have uh at at poolside?

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Yeah, I mean the first thing is you can do without fins. Yeah, unless you're a really weak swimmer and starting off. Like fins are actually something you don't necessarily need. Um, and massive hand paddles, you know, ones that are bigger than your hand and bigger than your face. Also super unnecessary and often lead to huge shoulder issues. So, you know, your paddle should only just be a little bit bigger than your hand for me. And those are two big mistakes to see, and and fins, as Em has pointed out, they're just this crutch for people just go back to them and they're starting to feel crap, or they're doing drills which they're finding really challenging. Fins are good at the start to help to learn that drill, but if you keep them on, you're actually never actually challenging yourself to do the drill properly. So getting away from that. One of the key tools I reckon that's come to the market within the last decade that people don't use enough, and I'm probably actually guilty of this in my squad, we don't use it enough, is um a front snorkel. Because breathing, uh the breathing is obviously a tricky thing. And then fitting that into the rhythm you stroke is tricky too. So if you can take out having to rotate for a breath and just keep your head down, you can just find really nice rhythm, but also your head's down so you can see all the time, and you can start to look for your hand and look for what your stroke's doing under the water. And it also will help you be out of position your head better on a regular basis and get used to creating that habit of over the neck. Um and I think yeah, front snorkel is an awesome one that people should be looking towards and and building into their program.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

This the snorkel's great because every time you flip turn, you actually waterboard yourself. Um you have quite like quite an episode at the end, so your problems all will of a sudden become worrying about trying to stay alive. Exactly. It's just like the open water, it's perfect. Yeah. I'll add to that as well. Um it is a good opportunity where you take the focus off breathing because that can be a stress point for some people. Then you can start to see how your your arms are coming under your body, and if you're crossing over, because obviously we don't want to be crossing over, so it gives you a bit of immediate feedback as well.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Yeah, yeah, it's a fantastic one. It's critical when the more feedback you can give yourself the better. So a coach once had a great setup and had a camera in the water and a big screen on delay. So every swimmer would come in, stop and ten seconds later see themselves, and then they'd push off again in the next rep. And it was the most effective piece of feedback, but he didn't have to manage it. You know, that people just self-govern and he could focus on other tasks as well. And I thought that was really neat because every little piece you can get just helps you build a little bit momentum forward. And him's gonna get to have a swim camp in a couple of weeks. We will absolutely tear a stroke to bits and figure some stuff out.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

One thing with that as well is I almost feel like when you do stroke correction, you almost it's a step back for two steps forward. And sometimes uh you might do some stroke correction and then you'll move on to a set where you're doing harder, faster swimming. It's hard to sometimes carry over those changes immediately, but I think it's something that you need to persevere at because you'll almost go back to your default stroke, and that's okay sometimes, but if you can slowly change that habit of whatever you're trying to correct and just hang in there with it. Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Just gotta give up. And and I think look for windows within your your periodised year where you can give up having to chase time. Like it's okay to be three or four seconds slower to improve your stroke to then go three or four seconds faster. I think it's a really good one, Carol, just making sure you're keeping. Committed to your process and looking for opportunities to do that. And then to get that coach on board that's going to give you that regular feedback. It's such a win.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

If you don't have a local squad or a local coach, uh you know, what's probably the next best bet with that?

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Yeah, it's a tricky one, right? So I think f find a friend and have them video you is really good. And then even being able to try to get that video off to a swim coach or a friend that might know swimming, it's pretty cool, and get their get their feedback for you. And then try get them to send you back a video which shows someone doing it really well versus how you're doing it, so you can see the change. Um and then trying to utilize, you know, so utilising a coach by distance is really good. Utilising feedback on board from a friend is fantastic. Um and then just turning up consistently and delivering is a really is really important and getting that frequency and yeah, I I know for a lot of people probably that 2k mark is your ceiling right. Um but that's okay. If you can get 2k in and do it on a regular basis, that's that's great, especially if it's delivering really good quality.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

Um I think you touched upon it earlier, like more frequent shorter swims are better than no swims at all. And I guess there could be an argument for hey, if you're really struggling to get to the pool and you need to put on some toys just to get yourself to the pool, put on some toys and just get to the pool because that swim is going to be better than no swim. I think Andy talked about it as well. You know, like when she's got a broken leg, um, if you're at the pool more frequently, you start to develop a bit of a feel for the water, how how that water feels, because at the end of the day, swimming is quite basic. You're just you're pulling yourself through the water, you're grabbing an apple, you're putting it in the pocket. There's all these different cues that you can use where you you know you're grabbing a rope, you're pulling yourself through, but at the end of the day, you're trying to pull yourself through a body of water, and um I guess we don't need to overcomplicate it too much.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

No, no, not at all. And I mean you look at like Alistair Brownley and Lucy Charles, they don't have these amazing perfect strokes, they don't look beautiful in the water like a Phelps or a Thorpe, etc. But they've developed an amazing capacity and efficiency in the water. And they must do something well under the water to get hold of it, but their their stroke rates are really, really high and they're turning over really well, which is a uh what an open water swimmer does. Um they've developed that through a lot of time in the pool.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

I would have likened that to a lot of um, you know, the African runners who don't necessarily look uh uh picture perfect in terms of form with maybe legs splaying out, but they're still the process something's still working, that it's working well, and it's it's similar to swimming, right? We can spend all this time trying to look look good above the water, but so long as under the water where it's actually mattering is is functional, then that's all that matters. I still remember uh a Kiwi professional athlete, Chris Gemmel. Um on top of the water, I never thought he looked amazing, but he always would come out front pack, whether that was tactics or just aggression or whatever it was, getting on people's hips or feet. But he was always be amongst it. Uh there was quite a number of swimmers like that who didn't look great on the top, but they were functional. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Yeah, totally. Yeah, and I think you can look out if people start to watch some of the ITU stuff now, which is the best swimmers, and just watch strokes, you'll see half the top, well more than half the top field is all pretty ugly. It's just a grip and grind in a way. Um, but they are they have developed a really nice skill set under the water and they've developed a huge amount of efficiency and Yeah, and actually going back to Eam's point before something to think about like pull is important, like upper body strength is important in swimming. And so l lot of people who can develop a really good um pool boy paddle speed often transfer that nicely into the open water as well. So we don't want to shy away from that, but we also gotta make sure that we don't rely on those those toys all the time, otherwise we don't develop the stroke that's gonna support that.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

I think a big key that I learned at some point uh during my career of swimming was to relax as well, relax in the water, become one with the water, you know, like a fish or an eel, right? They're not they don't have this big skeleton where they're the firm. So I think uh I still remember an Australian famous Australian coach, Dennis Cottrell, when we we would do like a hard set, and he was like it would it become it was threshold or VO2 and it was fast and it was super hard. Um he would always talk about relaxing the body and just relax. You swim fast, relax, but don't tense up, don't you know raise your shoulders up around your your ears. Um there's certain people, and I notice it a lot with runners that get into swimming as well, where you can just tell they're just rigid, not as mobile, and they're just fighting, fighting the water the whole time. Whereas I don't know if this is a thing with swimmers, but so many swimmers seem chilled out and relaxed, they're sitting there with their legs hyperextended, but they just it obviously there's something for me in that where they just can feel the water and they just become sort of one with it.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Yeah, I belie I I totally on board with your cow because you imagine trying to run or ride and hold all this tension all the time and try to actually be effective with your body, it just wouldn't happen. And I think it's what we see in the open water is a lot of people they tense up and so they get so frightened and nervous about it, and then they just really struggle to apply power, and then that the breathing gets really rapid, and then they're on their back the next minute lying and trying to suck oxygen in. And once they can get out of that mallet, which is the start of the race, and start to relax, then they're like, Oh, I'm swimming fine now, I'm all good. This is this is great. And so the the tension part of it is one of the things which I think is a precursor to the panic attacks that we see. And uh, if you can get over that and you can learn to be relaxed, you you will swim faster, but then you you'll also avoid those panic attack episodes.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Yeah, I gotta say that my swimming is never worse than after I've watched a whole lot of tutorial videos of everything that I should be doing, and I think it's it's due to that tension, right? Like if I've been scrolling like stuff on Insta and and you know, looking at different things that I should be doing, it it definitely does something to you and it makes you so much tenser. And so I definitely relate to that. I'm keen to know a bit more about like the translation between pool and and open water swimming. Uh, you know, I think a lot of people, particularly people who are doing their first, say, 70.3 or something, there there is that anxiety to go and do a whole lot of open water swimming. Um, so yeah, I'd be keen on your take of how much open water you should be sort of mixing in as a triathlete versus pool stuff.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

How you've been back open water recently. How's it feeling, mate, after a long time out?

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Well, uh I guess for me it's probably muscle memory more than anything. So first thing I think of as soon as I go open water, I need goggles with good visibility. So I've gone off and got myself uh a nice pair of goggles that are clear. They'll just be my open water swimming goggles. Uh a hot tip for keeping your goggles clear is baby shampoo or you know, um anything like that, right? So I use baby shampoo or liquid uh detergent, drop a bit in each goggle, swirl it around, rinse it out thoroughly, or you'll get pink eye and you'll you'll learn that the hard way. So basically it helps sort of clear it. The other thing as well, um is I've always thought about like obviously sighting is a key thing in open water, otherwise you're gonna be swimming further as well. So picking landmarks, whether it's trees, buildings, uh swim, you know, the turncans, uh the other thing as well is uh stroke rate. I always find you've got to increase the stroke rate a little bit because it's not like the pool where it's a flat body of water, it's a moving body of water. You know, um there's tides, there's rips, there's different things going on as well. But the hard thing I find in open water is just it's continuous swimming, whereas in the pool we're breaking it up into sets. So I'll generally swim a lot shorter in the open water, up to 2k, usually not further than 2k, and almost always try and swim with someone else just for safety as well. Uh, a bright coloured kit uh goes great. The other thing is obviously uh open water swimming, depending on where you live in the world. Uh you're probably gonna need a wetsuit. And um, that's another whole kittle of fish to unpack as well. And there's some tips and tricks with that. You s you know, Tim, maybe you want to touch upon what a wetsuit does to sort of change your stroke and how we can sort of help each other with that.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Yeah, well, wetsuits can really impact your flexibility. So your ability to actually get into a higher elbow stroke, which is really traditional swimming, is really hard. And then also it can impact your catch and getting into a really good catch at the front. So from a stroke point of view, the back end of your stroke becomes really important. Making sure you've got a really good exit and connection, and then also looking for a slightly wider swinging recovery. So you'll see a lot of good open water swimmers, they're not this traditional high elbow getting through, and they've got more of a wider recovery out here. And it's gonna work with the wetsuit better, and it in fact it actually works with your shoulder blade better and how that functions on your back. And we often see people with the wider arm stroke have less shoulder issues when they start to up their swimming volume. And then you're gonna have to have a lot more strength too when you're in a wetsuit. So people who don't wear wetsuits often and then they turn out to a race and it's a wetsuit swim, they're gonna cook their shoulders in the race because it takes a lot more strength and really getting used to that wetsuit before you can swim efficiently and effectively in it. So that they're really key dynamics. And what the other thing a wetsuit does is it depending on the type that you get, is it'll lift your hips up. So it'll start to put your hips in a different position and that's a different feeling. So you have to be used to that as well. And you often see the more experienced swimmers have less buoyancy through the hips because they can naturally get there themselves. But the less experienced swimmers are searching for those wetsuits with lots of chunky additions in around the hips because it helps get you in a better position. And that's why we often see in a wetsuit race the concertina. So the top swimmers don't get as much out of a wetsuit as the back end swimmers do, and that'll bring their fields together, so we're often less likely to see breaks and splits in the packs if we're watching an ITU or Sam Long or Lionel Sanders aren't as far out the back generally um with a wetsuit on. They're much closer to the front. So and the trick with a wetsuit is everyone's like, oh, this brand's better and this brand's better. And there certainly is a couple really top brands in the market, but generally it comes down to your fit. So having trialling a wetsuit, making sure it fits. Either wearing, you know, I've seen males wearing female ones, females wearing male ones, but and getting the right fit in around the shoulders is super crucial so that you've got the flexibility to be able to move and a really good wedgie is vital for swimming. Just jump around in that thing and get it right up your crutch because it'll free up your shoulders for some action.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

And um, Em, obviously, being new to open water swimming, what are some of the things that you find overwhelming? Because it it is it can be a daunting process as well, right? You can't just stop, you swallow water. Uh, if it's a choppy swim, the visibility goes, that can be unnerving as well. The visibility in the water as well as above the water. You know, we've done races where it's muddy water, it's there's silk, you can't see anything. The only time you can sight is when you lift your head up. Lifting your head up can be difficult. What are some of the things that you've found?

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Yeah, uh, when I started, it was it it was fear-based. So I had a a real rough entry into open water swimming. I'd never done any of it before. And my first time when I tried, I just went to a regular beach and I I couldn't get out past the breakers. It was too frightening for me. That feeling of being far out was just um really awful. And then uh on my second attempt at open water swimming, it was in a lake, and then seaplanes started landing on me. So uh really doubled down on that that trauma. But what what I found is um is yeah, the things that were really stopping me from doing the open water swimming was that you really do feel alone out there, and um, and it's it's scary, and you and it feels like you know, if you're in a lake, there's boats, there's all sorts of things, and yep, you can have the th, you know, the little floaty thing behind you and your bright cap, but it it can feel very, very scary. There's you know, sea monsters, things are touching you sometimes, and yeah, and you can't see where you're going. And uh, and so I I think when I started, um, things that helped me sort of overcome the fear is I actually got out and started doing um strategic uh ocean like races. So I would get into surf life-saving clubs where they were doing open water swim things, and I was the worst swimmer. Like these people were great, you know, they were all the proper surf life saving people, but it allowed me to go out and swim with other people, so it took away all of that fear so I could get the practice without um you know the fear. And then I did, I found like what you were saying, Cal, I found a buddy so that I was swimming with someone uh instead of just by myself, and and I think that that really helped. But I guess in terms of my technique and things that I struggle with, it's definitely siding. I I I feel like that's a real pain point for me. It feels like I just stop. It's like I I just slow right down. Um and yeah, and there's definitely something that happens in open water that that makes it challenging. Um, just from maybe I don't know if it is a body position point of view, but I I'm I'm definitely slower even with a wetsuit.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

Yeah, and maybe some of that's coming down to that tension you're feeling, Em, when you're out there. Not able to really execute your stroke properly, maybe haven't developed enough strength. We just talked the other day about how you're back in the gym a huge amount more, and how that can help you develop some strength that you're gonna be able to apply. And then the other thing in it around the sighting, I think often people underestimate how much they should be sighting, and also the head position when they sight. And you'll see a lot of people, they'll lift their head right out the water, the chin's out, and they're scanning for the boy. And as soon as you do that, your hips are just gonna drop and you just you just become this dri um what's the right word for it? Drag in the water. Um and so you need to actually be able to just lift your eyes out like a crocodile. You're stalking some prey, and then breathe to the side instead. You don't want to be doing the double eyes and head up, getting right out. So and that's gonna happen every third breathing cycle. So when you can train that in the pool, you know, it's eyes up, breathe the side, and then you might breathe twice more, and then it's go again, eyes up, breathe the side, boom. And then you you're regularly sighting and just becomes a natural part of your rhythm. And then you can keep your eye on the boys better. You don't, you know, go six or eight breaths without seeing them, and also your hips are staying up really well. And that's a it's an innate skill you have to develop and start developing in the pool before you can transfer it to open water. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Yeah, there's a lot you can do in the pool as well, like Tim said, where we almost every week we do a little bit of sighting, or we'll do head-up swimming. So swimming every stroke up for like 25 metres and then 25 metres back just swim properly, and then all of a sudden it feels great when you've got your head back down. But there's a few tips and tricks like that. I always found as well swimming in um in lakes where it's fresh water, the visibility's clear. There's a few cheats where uh you don't have to sight as much above the water. If you can look through the water and just follow bubbles, I mean you're trusting the person in front of you swimming in the correct direction, but um there's certain things, and like anything, right? The the more the more you expose your body to it and you expose yourself to it, the better you'll get at it. Uh so if you can get into the open water once a week and do a short 20-minute, 30-minute swim with a group, great. Try and try and just get a few friends together. Um, most of us have a lake, a res or an ocean close by. You can do it in the summer months, and you'll start to pick up those um tips and tricks.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Well, that's a wrap, but if you want to keep the conversation going, come find us on Instagram at cartel.coaching. And for coaching camps and community, you can check out our webpage. I've linked it in the show notes. See you next time.