Stueben County Sheriff Candidate: Mike Meeks

In this episode of Frontline Voices, we sit down with Michael “Mike” Meeks, a veteran law enforcement leader with over two decades of service to Steuben County.
Currently serving as Chief Deputy of the Steuben County Sheriff’s Office, Meeks has built his career from the ground up—starting in corrections, advancing through patrol and investigations, and ultimately helping lead one of the county’s most critical public safety agencies. Now, he’s stepping forward with a vision to serve as the next Sheriff.
We dive into:
His leadership philosophy and what sets him apart as a candidate
Key priorities for the future of law enforcement in Steuben County
His stance on community policing, transparency, and accountability
How his experience shapes his approach to officer development and public safety
The challenges facing rural law enforcement—and how he plans to address them
This conversation goes beyond campaign talking points. It’s about legacy, responsibility, and the real-world decisions that impact both deputies and the communities they serve.
If you care about the future of public safety in Steuben County—or want to hear directly from the people stepping up to lead—it’s an episode you won’t want to miss.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

This is Frontline Voices. Conversations with our local heroes. Here's your host, Matthew Blake.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Well, Mike, thanks for taking some time off the campaign trail to uh come by Frontline Voices and talk a little bit about your your history and uh what you're what you're running on.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Oh, well, thanks for the invite, man. I appreciate it. Um obviously I've most people know me. I'm born and raised in Stuben County. Uh born and uh raised in Fremont. I've lived here all my life, with the exception of about five years, you know, uh lived in Portland for a while, but uh graduated Fremont High School in 1995. I've been with the Sheriff's Office since Stuman County, since 1998, uh so 28 years. Oh wow. Last month, actually. Started out as a confinement officer. And um I've been a uh patrol deputy, detective sergeant, detective first sergeant. I was on the SWAT team for about nine years. I did some time as an assistant team leader. Uh when I was a detective, I ran the sex offender registry for eight years. Um and then uh in 2019, when our current sheriff came into office, I was appointed as chief deputy. And that's uh that's what I've been doing the last eight years. So that's that's kind of my kind of my story. I I worked part-time as a deputy marshal in town of Fremont for 17 years, paid part-time. Um, and that's actually where I got my start start, I guess you could say, was a reserve there for a while before uh being hired full-time as a deputy at the at the sheriff's office. So and prior to that, uh from uh in 1997, I guess my first first job was the Allen County jail. I was a confinement officer in Allen County. I'd when I'd graduated from Fremont in 95, I'd moved to move to Fort Wayne and uh was going to go to go to Huntington College. I didn't work out, so I started going to work, and then when I turned 21 in uh in 97 in July, I well in June, but by July I was working at the uh Allen County jail as a confinement officer. Did that for a little less than a year and then decided, you know, I you know what, I want to move back home and um and serve the serve the community and the people that did so much for me and got me to where I was, I wanted to give back. So in 98 I moved back home moved back to Fremont and uh started working in the as a confinement officer in the jail in Stuben County and the rest, as they say, is history. So really you've you've worked the whole just about every level when it comes to Yeah, I've served in just about every position there is that this at the sheriff's office. Um with the exception of and I was never a canine handler. I never I like dogs. Uh I just um I never it was one of the things I I just never got into, I guess. I mean they're awesome. I I love them. They they're they're they're amazing what they can do, and it was just I didn't think that was me. I gotta ask you.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

So what motivated you to pursue a career in law enforcement?

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Well, my my dad, my dad was a deputy marshal in Fremont when I was little. Um so that's kind of kind of grew up with that. He was he also was on the Fremont Fire Department for gosh 30, 40 years, most of my life. Um served as a fire chief back in the 90s when it was all volunteer. And uh so I grew up with I grew up at the fire station, I grew up around that. Um and I just I got that that ingrained sense in me to serve uh and to that's the best best best way to to give back and to to get have a fulfilling rewarding career. I mean there's there's others out there, but I never got never got the I never got the in uh inclination to be a firefighter. Um I don't know why. Uh maybe maybe it's I don't know, you know. Right. Uh if someone's shooting at me, I can get behind something, but you know, that fire, I mean you know, it takes it it I I I it takes a it takes a it takes a it takes a special kind of person to run into a burning building. Uh not that I wouldn't you know to save someone but um it I mean you know you you know you're you're in the fire service you know you know how it is um so that's kind of where it started and then and I just that's all I've I just that's all I've ever wanted to do. I mean there's been other things you know when you're a kid, I want to be a pilot, I want to be an astronaut, I want to you know I had those, but it always came back to law enforcement. That's what I've always wanted to do. Um I have other family members that are in law enforcement, it's just it just felt like it was I was called to do it, it's in my blood, it's it just felt natural.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

It sounds like from your your history that you don't really know a life without public service. No brought up in it, surrounded by it.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Right, I've been doing it most of most of my life, right. Um, and I I tell people this too, that well, I you know, hopefully nothing happens because I can't do anything else. I don't know how to do anything else, I don't want to do anything else. I I I I gotta make it to retirement because I I can't do anything else.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

So out of the vast roles that you've held, which one shaped you the most as a leader?

SPEAKER_02 5:17

Um there's you know, there's so many. Um obviously being the chief deputy is is probably at the top of the list because you know, that position, you're I manage the day-to-day operations of everything. Um and I'm responsible for the best way to describe it, I guess, it's kind of humorous, but the best way to describe it is everybody's problem is my problem. So you have you know, you you have to think of it that way, and and for me, it's it's everybody else. You know, you have to think of everybody else before you think of yourself. If you or even even if at all. I mean, I you know, I everything, you know I come to work and and and my my main goal is to make sure that everyone has what they need to do their job the best of their ability. And um so that that that position probably shaped me quite a bit. Um you know when I was an investigator, you know, I was a sergeant, and and then I was a first sergeant in charge of all investigations. So that was kind of a I think that that had an impact also, maybe not quite as uh of an impact as being the chief deputy and overseeing everything, but as far as um managing uh you know investigations and and resources and and you know that was kind of the beginning, and then I just I I took that and and advanced and blended it with what I'm doing now. So I think probably the best way to describe it is is is all the positions together as a whole took took me to where I am, got me to where I am today. Um and it's and it's it's a combination of what of what to what what to do and learning what not to do. You know, just like just like other leaders and other managers and other bosses that you that you have in your life, in your career, whatever career it is, you talk of you know you you learn you learn the good and the not so good. And and I've done that too. Uh, you know, I've worked for five sheriffs, several chief deputies, and and and they've all they've all been great. And but I think if you look at anybody that you work for, there's something that you can take away that's good, and there's something that you can take away that's um I'm not gonna do it that way because of this. You know, you learn learn what to do and learn what not to do. And and I think that's with anything.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

You already just kind of touched on it, but as chief deputy and overseeing the daily operations, what are some of the biggest challenges the office is facing right now?

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Well, right now, challenges, obviously, we we could use more staff. I mean, that's you know, that seems like a that seems like a a a the the the hot, you know, the I don't want to say, you know, the BS answer, but I mean that it's true. And and it and that is a problem in everywhere. I mean what when you whether you talk about the sheriff's office, you talk about the fire department or HS and police department, or if you're not police department, or you know, we could all use more staff. Uh we could all we could all we could all stand to be you know paid a little more. Um but it's it is it is it is an issue, it's an it's an ongoing issue, it's you know, and it's one that that we that we work hard and strive hard to to overcome. Unfortunately, you know, we're bound by our budgetary constraints, you know, but that's one of the things, you know, that currently our current sheriff and then myself as the as the next sheriff will continue to battle and and look for ways to to exp to expand our resources and to um better allocate the resources that we have to make sure that that uh we're we're getting the biggest, the most bang for our buck, I guess so to speak. Um so that's that's probably that's probably number one. Um, our facilities, you know, we we we do need a new jail. I mean, I don't get me wrong, we we have we we have a nice for thirty you know thirty well thirty-four-year-old building, it's it's it's not too it's not too bad, but it's the space. I mean we're you know we're we're expanding and and and and we're getting bigger and and we're kind of kind of starting to outgrow our britches, I think. Right a little bit. Um so that's that's something that that I think that that's a conversation that needs to that needs to happen here. Whether we can get it done in the next eight years, I don't know, but I I I think it's important to to go to have the conversations and and and start you know start that path because it's gonna it's needed. You know, we're gonna need it. You know, we're doing the best we can with what we have now, and uh which is all anybody can do. But but we are out we are outgrowing we are outgrowing our our current our current facility. Um so those probably those probably the two two big things. Um you know, but uh but as but I will say as a whole, I mean we're we're running pretty smoothly and and uh doing doing what we can to uh to maintain and obviously be, you know, work with everybody and and and keep keep the county uh the safe and the place that it that that that I grew up in, you know, a lot of people grew up in and and uh and that's what that's what we what we strive for.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Right on. Yeah, especially as times are changing and and I'm sure your call volumes are going up as well. Yeah, you start out growing that that space. Absolutely. That's understandable. So in your first hundred days, what are your top priorities?

SPEAKER_02 11:15

Um I've I have so many. Um obviously the you know the first thing is to get an assessment of of the staff where we're at, where we're at, where do we need to be. Is there anything is there anything that that needs needs addressed right now? Um, you know, prioritization, because again, no matter what we do, we're we we can we're we're bound by our our our resources, you know. And when when you talk about doing things like you know, staff or equipment, it's it's the budgets, the funding. Um fortunately, my experiences as chief deputy, I've been I'm involved in the budgets. Um you know the sheriff's office has a roughly a seven million dollar budget total. Uh you know, we have multiple budgets. We have the sheriff's budget, the jail budget, and e911. Um but an assessment are are are we have do we do we have the the the the right people in the right place? Um you know, are the command structure is it is it working? Can it be can it be tweaked? Can it be um better laid out? Um you know one of the one of the things that one of the things that uh I like to do on that on on that point early on is is look at the super the supervision structure, you know, our shifts now we we work 12 hour shifts, we switched to that a few years ago. Um but uh in doing that it we went from three shifts to four shifts. Um so in my opinion, I think we need a four sergeant um to make it even. So that's something I'm gonna be looking at. Um and just uh in general, uh just an assessment of the of the staff and and the resources, you know, what how we're rolling our our deployment strategy strategies, how we're rolling things out, you know, um, because we have you know we have the whole county, and then and then there are times when no one's working in the towns that that that we kind of have to backfill a little bit, you know. Are we being are we doing it the most efficient way, the fairest way for everybody, you know, things like that. Just you know, I've said it before, you know, my main one of the main things that I want to concentrate on or make sure that happens in the in in in the early days, especially, set the standard, set the tone that that we're doing right by everybody as much as we can. And I don't know if it's possible to do right by everybody, but we're damn sure gonna try. You know, the old adage, you can't make everybody happy all the time, but you sure can try. Yes. I mean, so that's that's probably that's probably the top priority. I mean, there's other things, um, you know, equipment-wise, you know, what do we need? What do we need to upgrade? Um, you know, I know you know um cameras have come up. Um, you know, we have we have car cameras now, but they need you know they need to upgrade it with the you know the technology. The technology is is it's it's it's just keep going and going and going, and there's so many things that you can do. And um I mean they have they have body cameras now that you that will translate for you. Oh wow, I didn't real time. I just yeah, but yeah. So which is cool. And obviously we have a a population sorry, we have a certain population of people here that don't speak the English very well. Uh so that would be cool. That um so things like that, technology upgrades or implementations and and um and just just an overall sense of of are we are we doing are we doing the right thing for the right reason?

SPEAKER_01 14:51

I gotta tell you, once we kind of locked down a date on this and and I started telling people, you know, there were there were some things that the community members were asking, and one of those things was rural areas like Hudson and Ashley have raised concerns about delayed response times. What's driving that?

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Well, Matt, when you talk about when we talk about delayed response times, I want to make sure that we don't conflate two different kinds of issues. So um if someone in if someone in Ashley or Hudson calls 911 and there's no one working, we respond immediately. The sheriff's office responds immediately, and we get here as soon as we possibly can, and it's pretty damn quick. Um now when you when you talk about a call that comes in that's non-priority, it's a it it it can it uh it's not in progress, maybe a property crime that happened the day before, things like that. If there's no if there's no one working in in the town, whether it be Ashley Hudson, Fremont, Oreland, Clear Lake, and it can it can wait, then sometimes it is put on hold for the next available um officer that works that town to come on. Um because the fact of the matter is is as I said, everyone's resources are limited, including ours. And uh we have to prioritize and we have to make sure that we're um being as much of the county as we can. Um what I don't want to happen, me personally, is you know, we take away from the county residents because the sheriff's office, that's all they that's all that's all they have. The town residents, they have they they have their own police departments, they have their own town governments, and uh and granted, they they they don't they don't um cover, they don't work 24-7 because of resource issues, which I completely understand. I mean nobody knows more about resource limitations than I do as a chief deputy. Right. So we try so we try to we we try to um prioritize and and and make sure that we're we're spreading ourselves, I guess, out to everyone as much as we can. I know we can't be everywhere all the time, but so when we talk about response times, I just I want to make sure that we're that that that there's a that there's a delineation there because that's what we're talking about. If a resident of one of the towns calls and says, hey, yesterday someone stole this, or you know, okay, no one's working. Um we'll we'll we're gonna we're gonna let the as soon as the next officer comes on, we're gonna send them to you. So that when you talk about a delayed response time, that I can see that where they're coming from. But but if someone calls 911 in any of the towns when no when no town officer is working and they say I need help, we are there like that. Uh and that's obviously a priority. Safety's a priority. Um we will and we have never, you know, we have we will never and have never told one of our deputies, hey, don't respond to something. If if if there's if there's a call like that in one of the towns and we're not busy and one of the and one of the the deputies is close and they want to go handle it, that's fine. That's you know, uh, because there are some times where somebody may call from someone may call and say, hey, my car was stolen yesterday, or I just realized my car has been stolen yesterday. It's not in progress. But things like that that need to be entered into the system, yeah, we will respond. And we will take the information and we will get it entered into the system as stolen. That way, if if another officer happens to stop it, or something like that, and then and then we'll just transfer the case to the to the whatever whatever town that it in, hey, for follow-up. But hey, it's already entered, we took care of it, so it could be entered. We that does not wait because that's that's something that needs to be done now. So basically, if it's something that needs to be handled right away, we will handle it. If it can wait, um, it may wait um unless unless someone's close. Uh, because there are times, and please please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to disparage anybody. Um, I completely understand you know, resources issues, but there are times where there are no no that none of the towns have anybody working, you know, because you know of vacations and days off. I mean, everybody has to have a day off. I you know, but it that does happen. So when that in that case, with the exception of Angola City, obviously they have 24-7, but you know, we're we're kind of we're kind of there for everyone, the entire county, and and and there's only on you know, there's only a a few deputies that work a shift, you know, so we gotta we want to we want to be fair to everybody, and we don't want to we don't want to we don't want to take away from the towns, we don't want to take away from the county residents, so it's it's it's a balancing act, uh, is the best way I can describe it. Um so and I think we're doing pretty good. The the the the numbers bear it out. Last year our numbers, so if you look at all the towns with full-time police departments, I'm not saying you know, full-time coverage because they don't, but where their officers are full-time employees, which would be Fremont, Ashley Hudson, and Hamilton. Last year, with our with our prioritization and our you know how we're trying trying to spread it out to everybody, we the numbers bear it out. We we responded to a third of the calls in all the towns. We did a third. And we did a third of the incidents that happened in the town of Fremont, a third of the incidents that happened in Hamilton, and a third of the incidents that were that happened in Ashley Hudson. Now the other thing you've got to remember is when we talk about Ashley Hudson or Ashley and Hamilton, that's just the Steuben County side. Right, yes. Part of those towns are in DeCal County. Um and I don't want to speak for DeKalb. Um you know, and and and obviously the the obvious question is well, you know how do we how do we fix that, right? You know, um you know the the the uh the short answer is I'm not sure because it's a resource thing, you know. There there are there are things to look at, you know, contracts or um you know hiring more deputies or the towns contracting and will hire more deputies, and but me personally, I'm I'm a local, I'm I'm a local government guy. I'm a constitutionalist, as I'm sure you probably heard. Um so I'm a big believer in local government and local government taking care of their people. So my view in a perfect world, I I would I would like to see that the towns be able to expand, you know, hire more, have hire more officers and and and be 24 so they can they can take care of their own people. Now, granted, I understand that that's a resource thing, and and and there's only so much money to go around. But um but on that just something just something just just to put it in perspective, so that which I'm sure you're probably aware, the town of Hudson pays the town of Ashley for police coverage. And I I don't know about fire too. Yeah, yeah, yep, it's all so it's a contract, right? Yep. Um but when no one's when when there's a gap in the coverage in Hudson or in Ashley, I'm sorry, that means that we're We're trying to cover Ashley and Hudson. Right, yes. But Hudson pays the town of Ashley to cover their town. Which um, you know, it it is what it is. I mean, and and we'll we'll we'll we'll continue to do whatever we can to help to help anybody and everybody. But just just kind of for just kind of for perspective, that's you know, when you talk about contracts, that is an option, but um but I for me growing up the way I did in this county, I I'm like I saw I'm a local government guy, and I I think the best solution would be to find a way for the towns to be able to cover as much as they can so they can take care of their own people. Um but you know that's that's something that we'll keep that we'll keep working on, but but uh but but if but if somebody if anybody in the county calls 911 and needs needs the police, we we we respond. We respond as quick as we can.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Thank you for being clear and transparent on that because I think it is a perception thing. You know, obviously if I call 911, my my priority is is is I right but explaining the fact that yeah, you guys are dealing with with manpower shortages too, and that that strain is hard.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

And when someone calls one of the towns and it's non-protocol, then it's gonna be with that, it's explained to them, hey, look, it's not progress. We there's nobody working, it's gonna be, you know, now for the now now for the for the full-time agencies, you know, it's it's it's a map, it could be a couple hours, or you know, they're in between shifts. We we we handle the part-time department, the part-time towns a little differently for obvious reasons. So Orland and Clear Lake, they're all part-time. So we so the numbers are a little higher that we that we handle because we just don't know when you know we don't want somebody waiting two weeks, right? Okay. So um if so we we spent a little we the numbers are a little higher. I believe um in Oreland were and these are just the calls in the town, we're about 45, just under 50 percent of their calls last year that happened in town, and Clear Lake was about 50, right at right at right at 50 percent um of Clear Lake, the town of the calls in Clear Lake, which you know, which I think is appropriate because like I said, you know, with being with everyone being part-time, uh, we you just don't know. It could be a week it could be several days, and and we don't want, I mean, we don't want anybody waiting that long um to get to get something you know reported or or or or what have you. So it's again, it's a balance, you know, a couple hours versus a couple days, you know. Um so so that's uh you know, that just give you just give you a perspective on everything. That's that's the difference because they're they're they're part-time versus versus full-time.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

I want to pivot a little bit and ask you, what does community-oriented policing actually look like in Stewang County?

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Well, it's a it looks it looks like a lot of things. The big thing it looks like is is for me, I think, is is being is is trying to be there, trying to be there before we before we're needed to be there. You know, a lot of being as proactive as possible. Um we we obviously prioritize public safety, safety, safety for our uh motorists on the roadway. You know, we we do a lot of proactive things to to promote that. Um we have a few deputies that are that are that are out there specially trained, you know, look for drunk drivers and and impair drivers and get them off the streets to keep everybody safe. Um it's it's communication, it's collaboration with with um you know our our all of our partners, our our you know, the towns, the fire departments, everybody, EMS, public safety in general, and and you know, working together to to prevent as much as we can. I mean, you know, nothing's 100%, but um same thing you know with the schools, you know, we have we have we partner with MSD, we have a we have a deputy in the school as an SRO, which I think is awesome. Uh obviously um I think that needs to continue and if possible look for ways to expand it. I mean in a perfect world, you know, there's probably should be a you know a cop in every school. You know, when you when you when you talk about what's the best thing to the best thing to protect our children who are our most valuable um asset in our our community. You know, we we we have guards, you know, we have we have they have guards and security guards and armed guards at sporting events and things like all these things, and they never have any problems because you know you put people with guns and and a good guy, you know. I always said the best the best thing the best thing to the best thing for a to have when you have a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Right, yes. Um preferably a good guy with a bigger gun or more guns for that guy. Um so that's that's that's a big that's that that's a big thing, I think. Um and then and just just being accessible, being there, showing up, you know, and and having that that that um culture, I guess, or that you know the the perception that you know you can come in and we're always here and no nothing nothing nothing's out of bounds and nothing's too frivolous or nothing's too you know, I always tell people uh you know people are afraid to you know when they when they see when they see something odd or you know they don't call because they think they're bothering us or they you know they they rationalize it away, it's probably nothing. Well if if it's if it's got your if it's got your spidey sense up, then you know it it may be something and and you know we'd we much rather much rather you call and then it be nothing and we go out there and it's nothing then um you not call and it you know it it turns into something that could have been prevented. So you know, a lot of proactivity we try, our patrols and and uh just just being out being out in the community, and you know, that obviously for me, you know, I'm born and raised here. I'm very very rooted. I mean, my you know, my family, I've my family's from from Fremont, Clear Lake, Hamilton. My great-great great grandfather's on the monument in town. He was served in the Civil War was from Hamilton. So I'm deeply vested in this in this in this county. I mean I know I know we're technically sitting in Decal County right now, but um, but again, that and that that's part of it too. You gotta you gotta you gotta collaborate and have partnerships with your neighbors. I I mean that's you know one of the things one of the things I want to do is is is rekindle that that that um that partnership with Williams County, Ohio, Ranch County, Michigan, uh Pistol County, Michigan, you know, and um have those mutual aid agreements and train together and and pool the resources because you know we we we respect that that imaginary line that that separates Indiana from Ohio or Indiana or Michigan, but the criminals don't. Right, yes. They're back and forth, you know, we're kind of in a unique area. Uh you know, we're we're you know you know ten miles from Ohio and six miles from Michigan. And so if we can get that going again and um and expand on that, I think that would that that as far as being community oriented and public safety and that would go a long way because then then we can no matter what, no matter what side of the line you're on, you know, we're gonna get you. Um so um yeah, I think I think I think that in a nutshell is is is very important when it comes to what what community policing is and and it's it's and I think that's one of the one of the best or unique things about the sheriff's office when you talk about policing, there's so much more to the sh to the office of sheriff than policing the community. That's one of the things we do, yes. But as your sheriff, the sh I I would I'm the keeper of the county. And I make and and I make sure that that that everyone is is cared for and protected, and and it's it's it goes way beyond police, just policing, just res you know we do have the we do have the patrol cars, we do stop, we do stop you for speeding and ask you to slow down, but there's so much more than that. I mean it's you know the sheriff's a constitutionally elected office for a reason. There's a reason why our founding fathers and the founding fathers of the state of Indiana put the office of sheriff in the Constitution, Article 6, Section 2 of Indiana's Constitution is where you'll find the sheriff. Um they thought it was that important, you know, and you have to have the right sheriff in office. You have to have a constitutional sheriff in office because the sheriff, the sheriff is the elected protector of liberty, I believe. And that goes hand in hand with the community policing and taking care of the community. And I mean that I mean the sheriff has the I the sheriff has the authority to call the power of the county up in times of great need. And I'm not talking about a militia or a bunch of people with guns. I'm talking about a need, a great need, disasters, man-made, tornadoes. You know, the sheriff has the power, has the ability to call the power of the county up. And I'm sure you probably know what you know who the power of the county is, right? The power of the county is the people. Is the people, yes.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

So it's and that's very, very important to me. You touched on that, and I want to ask you, because you have been described as a constitutional sheriff. Yes, I am. So for the everyday person, myself included, what does that mean? What what does how is that described? Well, I'll tell you what it means to me.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Okay. Um it means that that that oath that I that I have taken as a deputy sheriff and will take as the sheriff is not just it's not just a ceremony. It's just not words that you say because it's something you have to do. I I firm I take it to heart, I firmly believe it. Um I've studied the history of the Constitution, the history of the history of the sheriff's office. Um, and I I take my oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States and the state of Indiana seriously and to heart. And I I believe that that's the best way to serve the people. Um the the the sheriff is a constitu the sheriff's the sheriff is the constitutional representative of the people. It's why the sheriff's elected by the people and not appointed by another politician or an unelected government bureaucrat. The sheriff is elected by the people to be accountable to the people and not anybody else. Um so the best way a good example is is if if the ATF comes to your house and they want to they just want to count your guns to make sure that you, you know, just it's just to just to see how many you have, you know. It's not no problem. You know, we just want to see how many you have, or we just want to make sure that you're storing them right. If you feel that that's an infringement on your rights, you have the right, which it is by the way, you have the right to call the sheriff and have the sheriff be with stand with you and make sure that the that you're not your rights aren't being infringed on. So you would call me, you could call me, and I would, I would, I would come and I would stand with you and make sure that that the ATF, whoever it is, government official, is everything is above board, everything you're you're not you're not being infringed upon. Your rights, your liberties, your freedoms. That's what the sheriff is for. That's why the sheriff's elected. Um so that's what that's that's what it one of the important things to me about being a constitutional sheriff. Okay. The sheriff is is not um accountable to any other politician, any other branch of government. The sheriff is accountable to the people only. Um and the sheriff is, I mean, it it's the oldest. I'm kind of a history buff anyway, but it's sorry I'm rambling. It's the oldest, it's the it's the oldest office, non-military office in in in the in the world. Oh wow. The office of sheriff dates back to medieval England, about the ninth century. And um a lot of our a lot of the sheriff's duties beyond policing and you know come from the ancient office of sheriff. So um, you know, back then the the sheriff was a tax collector, we collect taxes. The sheriff presided over court proceedings. We the sheriff does court security. The sheriff back then formed a posse and apprehended criminals. We apprehend criminals. And we kick when we we are the caretaker for the criminals, so obviously we run the the sheriff runs the jail and we serve the court's process. So a lot of a lot of the ancient duties of the sheriff, um or a lot of the current duties, I should say, are derived from from the ancient duties. Um you know, back then it was a little what I think is is why I think our founding fathers were geniuses, if you have time for a quick story. Yes. So back then, back in the medieval times, this the they they weren't called sheriffs, they were they they were called shires. So um they had the kingdom, you had the king of England, or the you know, the king, the kingdom. The king was the sovereign, right? And everyone else was subject to the king. And the kingdom was split up into territories called Eves, which is another word for county, and then in each county they had an administrator or a or a uh a uh officer of the king, a shire, was the shire of the Eve. And in the Eve, this shire had the king's authority. He answered only to the king and uh collected taxes for the king and you know presided over the king's court, you know, like I like I like I said. So our founding fathers they realized that yes, we need the people need the the sovereign needs a representative, right? And this con and this concept of of the shire eve kind of kind of came came through and but they tweaked it a little bit. So the the that's where we get that's where we get the American word sheriff, too. They shortened it. Okay the modern American Shire Eve got shortened to sheriff. And the cool thing is our founding fathers like that concept of uh of a law of having a law enforcement officer as close to the will of the people as possible. But the mid difference is is is back in in the kingdom the sheriff answered only to the sovereign, right? Well, in our system of government, our founding fathers, we don't have a king. So the sovereign that this that the sheriff answers to is not the king, it's the people. So that's kind of how that how that transition happened. And I mean, it's you know, that's why I think our founding fathers were geniuses. I mean, they studied eleven, they studied over eleven hundred years of history, of you know, going back to the Magna Carta, you know, the British Bill of Rights, and they knew what didn't work. Um, they studied ancient, you know, ancient democracies, the Roman Empire, you know, they this is you know, this is this this these are the problems, and they took all that when they when they uh drafted our constitution and and um put certain barriers in place, separation of powers, and and it's it's yeah, so I could talk about it all day. But uh that that in a in an essence was what it means to me to be a constitutional sheriff is to actually uphold the constitution and and and and follow the constitution as written, uh both the state and both Indiana and the federal. And uh because it the Constitution is just as relevant today as it was in the 1780s. I mean again it was written it was written that way, and and you know, some say that constitutional sheriffs interpret the constitution. I don't believe that. I don't know, I don't need to interpret the constitution. The constitution was interpreted back in the 1780s by the 85 Federalist Papers. Um and uh so it doesn't need to be interpreted, it needs to be applied. Um and that's what I believe a constitutional sheriff does is is applies the constitution. Um plus it's it's our oath. So, you know, we we we swear an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States and the state of Indiana and to faithfully, honestly, and impartially discharge the duties of sh of the office of sheriff. So if if back to my back to my example with the ATF or any other government official coming in and trying to trying to usurp or trying to infringe on on a citizen, if I if a as a constitution constitutional sheriff, if I don't, if I'm not there to be that representative and and file the constitution, are I not violating my oath of office? I believe I am. And you can be removed from office for that. You should be. So that that's why it's it's extremely important to me, and that's that's that's why I'm that's what I think it means to be I believe to be a constitutional sheriff for the people. And to be that firewall, that barrier between the people that elect me and the government to make sure that I mean perfect example we saw in COVID, right? You remember COVID? We had a governor that that that handed down some what I b what were unconstitutional mandates. You have you can't go outside. You have to wear a mask. What? No, I I don't have to. You have to get a shot. I don't know. And then said, well, you know, there's this statute that says if you don't follow my you don't follow my um executive order, that's a misdemeanor. Well, I'll tell you, you know, our current sheriff is a constitutional sheriff, and and at that time, obviously he was in office, and I was the chief deputy, and we were both in complete agreements. That is not happening. We are not enforcing that. That's not that's unconstitutional. That's why you need to have a constitutional office, sheriff in office.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Thank you for for clearing that up. Because like I said, you know, words like that's used, and and a lot of times it's not exactly known what that means. So I want to thank you for that.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Yeah, I think it means different things to different people. Right, yeah, yeah. I mean, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

So we're gonna take a little a bit of a time jump from medieval times to the present with technology. Oh no, that's that's perfectly fine. And I didn't even know this was kind of a hot button issue, but um The mention of body cameras has come up in in recent years. And um I want to know what your stance is. Do you support the use of body cameras for deputies? And how do you balance transparency and privacy?

SPEAKER_02 41:10

Um, I do support the use of body cameras. I support uh I'm a camera guy. Okay, car cameras, body cameras. Um I just think when you talk about when you talk about body cameras, and I've said this before, and this may be where it's coming from, as a constitutional sheriff, I there are there are things that that that I that I would think need to be considered. And you kind of hit on it with with transparency and privacy. That's one of the big things when you when you implement a body camera program that I think needs to be at the forefront. The program needs to be comprehensive, it needs to account for that. Well, that's the best way I can describe it. You're talking, you know, a car camera is one thing. It's mounted in your vehicle, it's recording public space 99.999% of the time. Okay. Um again, big proponent, big proponent of the of car cameras. I had a car camera when I patrolled. In fact, in 2010, I was involved in an incident where I was in where I had to shoot a guy that drug me with his vehicle, and I ended up having to shoot him. It was on camera. Great. Car cameras are great. Body cameras, the camera itself, great tool. It protects the deputies, it protects um the citizens, it it it it's that it's that um that aura of transparency that everybody that's great, that's needed. But when you talk about body cameras, as a constitutional sheriff, there are things that that I can consider um considerations that I feel are important. And the biggest one is is having a camera that can be taken into probably the most constitutionally protected space we have, which is a private home. I think that needs to be accounted for uh in good constitutionally sounded policy and procedure. Um we you need to we need to have probably the best redaction software that money can buy to make sure that we are protecting the the privacy and the rights of the innocent. I'm not talking about the bad guy. I mean, if you commit a crime, that's on you. But I'm talking about the the the law-abiding citizen, the victim, the the child, the the innocent bystander that's and and in the in the inside of someone's private home in general. I mean, I don't know about you, but I just the thought of you know someone coming coming into my house and recording my my personal things and what's what's on my wall. And I mean, and don't get me wrong, I know the courts have said that you know we we can we're there for a legitimate law enforcement purpose. We can take the camera in there. I understand that, and I and I and I respect it. It's just as a as a constitutional sheriff, I it gives me a little pause, and it's something that I think. as a as as the sheriff that I need that I need to be concerned about because that's who I serve. That's who I'm supposed to be taking care of. And so I think it's very important to have when you have a body body camera program to have those things in place to to to to protect people's privacy that needs protected. And because like you said, you have body cameras, the video, I mean the video is subject to FOIA, it's it's going to be evidence. It's you know people are going you know they're they're going to want to see it for transparency, which is fine. But we got again, I'll use my favorite word of the day balance. I think there's a balance between that and and some and an individual individual especially a law an innocent law-body citizen's individual rights and and and freedoms of privacy and and and and having their their their personal stuff you know recorded and potentially out there. Because you know one that's one of the one of the drawbacks of our technology these days once it's out there on the internet it's it's there. It's there. So you know because at the end of the day I'm the sheriff for everyone. I have to be the sheriff for everyone not just a certain group of people or certain certain select groups of people everyone. So and I have to think about and I do think about everyone. Some may not agree but that's as as a sheriff that's that's very important to me. That that that that is that is taken into consideration. Obviously the other the other thing about you know cameras the camera program is general the funding they caught they are expensive. Because it's not just the camera it's the storage you know and a lot of the companies they go to the I the sciloud storage unlimited which is great but it it's it there's a subscription fee it's recurring every year plus the software licensing for the camera software itself and as I said the redaction software I mean it it's you know it's gotta be it's it's gotta be in my opinion the best. I mean we've got to be able to to redact um and do it in a way that that protects that protects the innocent protects the the the law abiding citizens and protects their privacy um actually we've looked we've looked at getting body cameras the sheriff's office right now does not have body cameras we have car cameras and again as I said that's one of the things that I'm wanting that I'm looking at is upgrading those um in preparation for hopefully putting together a good comprehensive camera program in the near future to include body cameras and car cameras um in fact my opinion is if I were to if if I'm if I'm if I am going to put together a camera program it's not just going to be the deputies on the road I bel I think that the confinement officers need to be wearing them too in the jail. And the reason I say that is the numbers I mean according according to last year's data a confinement officer in our jail working in our jail is four times more likely to be involved in use of force incident than a deputy out on the street. Which if you think about it makes sense because of the type of people that the jail up that the confinement staff have to deal with every day all day. It's the people that come in they're on something they're they're not acting right um they're violent to begin with they're they're they're the they're they're the criminal criminals um but but most of but most of it is the mental health which is a whole nother we could talk on a whole other day on mental health issues. Right yes that's that's that that's something else that's very important to me is is is getting a tackle on these on this these mental health issues um because it quite frankly a lot of them don't need to should probably shouldn't be in jail but they are and and the confinement staff have to deal with them. And we're not really trained to we're not well we're not trained to help them we're we're not really trained to deal with them more as more than more but we're more of trained to to handle them to make sure to make sure they don't get hurt and we don't get hurt. So so I think I think uh when you talk about comprehensive program I think it's very important to include the confinement staff because so you have that face-to-face interaction from very start to beginning um so obviously that's more cameras which then drives the other issue that you have to deal with is the funding um so in the last in 25 in 24 and 25 we uh the current sheriff and myself actually try to get body cameras the program started we uh we we tested cameras we we um found one that was that we felt was you know meant met what we needed uh it wasn't the most expensive but it wasn't the cheapest um tested them and then I got a grant to pay for half uh it was a mansion grant and uh when we went to the county commissioners for all for uh for the funding request it got denied which okay I mean that's that's that's that's the commissioner's job um I don't know a lot of people may not know this about county government that that the commissioners have to authorize if it's over a certain amount the commissioners have to have to authorize the expenditure of the of the funds of the taxpayer funds even if we have the money in our budget even if the money is there the commissioners have oversight that's how county government works and uh at the time they felt that that that was something they they they weren't gonna they want to expend funds on which which is fine. So I have I I have tried to get cameras in the past and I'm not opposed to trying again I just want I just think it's important to understand that it's just it's it's not a matter of me signing signing a form and we getting them I mean I could I could promise you Matt all day I'm that I'm gonna get cameras day one I'm gonna buy I'm getting I'm I'm gonna buy cameras I'm gonna buy 50 cameras I could I could say that but I think it would be a little disingenuous because that's not how it works. I'm only a part in the in in in the process I have to get the funds approved to be expended so my so for me personally my promise would not be I'm gonna get them my promise is I'm going to do what I can to implement a program I'm gonna try. I'm not opposed to trying because I don't want to I don't want to be disingenuous. Right yes absolutely and the other thing too is just for just for reference just you know a lot of people say that well you know we're you know they try to make not sound like that we're the only law enforcement agency in the world that doesn't wear them that's not true I don't know some may know some may not know but the second largest agency in Stubent County that being the city of Angola they don't wear them either okay they have in car cameras just like we do. So and I and I don't want I'm not and I'm not gonna speak I don't I don't know why I'm just I'm just stating a fact they they don't I mean that the you know that that's that that's that administration's um issue I'm not gonna I'm not gonna opine on as to why I'm just just just for reference you know just wanted to just wanted to put that out there that because that that's the gist that that I get is that oh that the sheriff's office in Sudan County is the only only agency in the world that's not true. Right yes uh so but yeah that's that's that's kind of that's kind of the long way around the block on my my my stance on cameras in general right on so I want to ask you how would you describe your leadership style and what does accountability look like under your watch well my leadership style I I I can be a macromanager I try not to I I may have I may have a little O C D undiagnosed um but generally I generally I I do the very best I can to lead by example. I think that's the most important or the best way to do it. I I would never ask anybody under that that that worked for me to do something that I wouldn't do myself or have not done and I think that's one of the one of the one of the one of the assets that I have of of serving in in just about every position in the sheriff's office. I've done I don't want to say I've done it all but damn close in 28 years. So that's that's what I what I strive for every day is lead by example get communication get out put I put my own eyes on things what's you know what's what what's going on how can you know what can I do to help what can I do to make sure that that everyone is is is at their peak is is doing is doing the best job they can do do they have all the do they have all the resources they have you know all the all all the gadgets you know what what whatever it is and and and provide them the opportunity to grow and to expand and train I love training you know wherever you want I mean I'll s I'll send if it's something that benefits the benefits the community benefits the deputy the confinement officer I'll send them I don't care I mean we you know current the current administration we've sent people to California to train wherever I think it's very very important um because as a leader you need to do whatever you can I believe to make the people earn you better than you are because no one's gonna be there forever and I'm you know succession planning is important to me and that and putting the right putting the right people in the right spots you know um which I've done that and uh so you probably saw you know I've selected the chief deputy Rich McCarty um he and I we go back we've known each other since we were about five years old we grew up in Fremont together went to school together you know and when you know when when you say we went to school together you know people think ah yeah you graduated high school you know this is Fremont Indiana no we went to school from kindergarten right to graduation okay and he's he's he's just he's he he and I are just so so aligned on obviously the community our ties our our families our friends you know we're all here we're all about the community and he just I he I mean I could go on all day about him but as far as as far as treating treating the treating the citizens the way that I want them to be treated I have I've I've got I've got no issues no qualms or no concerns that that that that that rich is is is not going to do 110% and he's he's a go-get he's he's he's uh he's a leader he's a he's he's a mentor he's trained several deputies he's he just he he is he's the perfect person for that position I believe to to move things forward and to to bring everyone together and and so I think as far as as a leader that's another very important aspect to have the have the right people in in in in the right spots and and uh and rich and he's not afraid to call me names and and tell me that's a stupid idea what in the hell are you thinking and and I think you need that a good leader it needs to be needs to be humble needs to have humility needs to be able needs to have the courage to say I was wrong I'm sorry um and also have the courage to if you do if I don't know to say I don't know what do you think you know and also recognize that I'm not I'm not the smartest person in the room but I have I have people that I that I can rely on and that I can that I can go to and and uh you know get the job done and so I think I think those things are very important and that's that's kind of my kind of my style or what I what I try to do. I mean nobody's perfect but you gotta you gotta have a good team.

SPEAKER_01 56:20

Yeah it's gotta have a team yeah yeah absolutely this next one is a tough one oh boy because I and I have to commend both you and Chris because being a Stewang County resident myself I've never seen where either one of you are slinging mud or anything about that for each other. So I really have to commend you both on that. I mean you're you're standing on on what you you both believe. But at this point in time I gotta know why are you the best choice?

SPEAKER_02 56:50

Well I I kind of I guess I'll just kind of summarize what we've been talking about because I think it all it all goes into it. I'm uh I'm the I'm the best choice because I have that experience that no one else has. I I've been the chief deputy the last eight years you know when you look when you when you you know if you want to you want to go side by side you know you look at you know resumes and things like that and it's all pretty even I mean I you know I you know I I was a deputy I was a patrol deputy again like I was a detective sergeant same I I was the first sergeant same I'm um I've been to the national FBI uh the the FBI National Academy same but what what I think puts me I guess above I mean that derogatorily but when you have to when when when it's time to choose I think the the you need to consider that all that plus my my ties to the community um you know my my love my commitment my roots my you know what holds me here and what drives me to to make Stewang County Stubend County is that I'm the only one with that sheriff's administrative experience. You know as the chief deputy I have acted as the sheriff I've had to perform the sheriff's duties several times over the last almost eight years because that's what the chief deputy does because the sheriff needs to be out in the community and probably once in a while needs to take a break. Right yeah absolutely yeah so or or the sheriff's duties pull you know pulls the sheriff out of town you know they have to attend um you know meetings and conferences and and and go down and and and be very involved in the state legislature which again is another I think uh unique quality that I have is I is I have um I'm being the chief deputy the last eight years I'm very um I've been very involved in that in the sheriff's association um and then through my person through my you know my my personal contacts and friendships I have I I have a a contact you know at down at the state house in the lieutenant governor's office he and I are friends um and it so being the being the chief deputy I've I've I've had to make the sheriff's make the sheriff decisions and and make presentations to the county council and the county commissioners for budget items and you know for uh you know you know salary increases and all all all kinds of sheriff's administrative administrative issues plus I I'm deeply you know I'm involved in the budgets um and um the deepest would be would be the fleet obviously as the chief deputy I oversee the fleet so I I do the budgeting and the procurement and the make sure all the cars are everyone has a car and and they're they're running right and and and and and we've got 45 vehicles um so I'm I I manage a lot so much of that stuff um so I'm very I'm got a very I've got a I've got a very deep understanding of of how the office works and and as far as you know the you know the the the jail side and communications because it's all you know it's all it's all under the sheriff's office but they're separate you know separate budgets and and things like that. So I I I think that that's the big thing that puts puts me as the best person to be the sheriff of this county not this county Stuman County because I've I've done it. And again goes back to the leading by example and and I've I've performed you know I've I've I've had experience in just about every every position in the sheriff's office including the sheriff so no and and nobody else has that and uh I've got uh uh and then you talk about training you know I've I've I've already been to the new to the new sheriff school that the ISA puts on for newly elected sheriffs it's a week long course I've already been to it as a chief deputy um because as a chief deputy I may have to step into the step into the role so I don't be prepared to be prepared uh obviously I will attend it again um and uh and writ and bring Rich with me for that same reason um so that's probably that's probably the the the biggest thing I would I would I would point to people if they're trying to decide is I'm the only I'm the only one with the with the with the real world real role experience being the sheriff and it I'm not going to say there's no there's no learning curve because there's there's a learning curve every day we you know we're learning every day but I can uh I will say that there there will be a smooth transition because I'm I'm I'm uh essentially and effectively already there and been there.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:06

Right so change changing hats that hat's the new hat's already kind of kind of fit in yeah yeah it's not completely new but uh this next part when I first started asking this these questions I really thought it was a great evaluate self-evaluation tool and then as of you know recent events and stuff like that I found out how incredibly important it is um when your time in law enforcement is all said and done and you're ready to to hang it up and write off into the sunset what's that legacy look like what do you want to be remembered for wow well I think I'd like to be remembered for doing my part to to making the sheriff's office the the the most trusted agency in the county the the um most respected and be remembered for doing my what I what I what whatever I could to to keep the um keep things going and and make sure the deputies and the the staff, the dispatchers anybody that anybody all sheriff's office employees um make that I that I did my part to make them the best that they could be and and and help them grow and and do what they want to do even even if it's not in the at the office if they want to go on and do something else.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:48

You know I wanna I want to I'd I'd like to be remembered for being that person that that helped whoever get to their ultimate goal whatever it is whether whether it's whether it's whether it's to to be a deputy or be a sergeant or or go and be you know work for the FBI or ATI you know or w whatever that I that I that I that I that I was there and I could I could do some even it's a small part you know just so I guess just helping people in general whether it's whether it's whether it's a staff or the or the community I mean obviously you know I'm I would like to be I would like to be remembered as a as a as a sheriff that facilitated and and and did whatever whatever I could do to to help somebody else. I mean I'd I guess in a nutshell I'd I don't know if that's possible but I think it's I think it's important I think it's very important. So yeah that's that's probably the two main things or a couple main things that I would like to be remembered for. I mean you know again can't make everybody happy but you can sure as hell try. Right yes all right in closing of this podcast the last couple questions have been a little a little heavier this very last question I always like to ask because I like to see what people's thoughts are so if you could recommend anybody to come on the show who would it be and why I could recommend anybody um well you know I I think I mean if you're if we're talking about you know right now to to get more perspective of me and why I'm running I mean I I think I think I would like to see I would like to see Rich Rich come on and and uh you know because I I mean I I don't want I can speak for I mean I I feel like I can I feel like I can speak for him a little bit 'cause we're you know we're we're uh We're so aligned, but I I I really think it it's important to hear from him. Um so that I guess that would probably be a a suggestion. Um I don't know he's very busy, but um Well Rich.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:15

Be on the lookout.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:16

Sorry, I didn't mean to put you on the spot there, buddy. Uh but um Yeah, I mean that that I think it would be a good one. Um you know, other than that, I mean there's just I think just from me personally, my opinion, I think I think any anybody that that's wanting to to get get their voice out or talk about something or maybe um you know help with a perception of it of something. I mean, I think this is a great way to do it. Um but uh I know you have I know you I know you try to have a lot of different wide variety of issues and and uh um topics and and and uh I guess professions and so yeah, say it say save the hardest crushing for last.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:10

Well, Mike, I thank you for stopping by. I want to wish you all the luck in the world with the upcoming election. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:17

So uh this is frontline voices conversations with our local heroes.