Policy Meets Progress: Navigating the Politics of Workforce Funding with Shane Broadway

Traditional higher education models face a significant talent leak when they fail to adapt to rapid regional economic shifts. With changing student demographics and immediate economic pressures, educational institutions must look past rigid four-year structures to remain essential drivers of regional growth. In this episode, host Todd Shields sits down with Shane, Vice President for University Relations for the ASU System and Chancellor of ASU Three Rivers, to discuss the critical intersection of public policy, campus leadership, and industrial workforce development.

We sit down to examine the systemic adjustments required to bridge the gap between academic programming and direct corporate labor needs. Our conversation dives into the tactical deployment of stackable credentials, the execution of specialized workforce training partnerships with corporations like Dassault Falcon Jet, and how the "Big Six" state budget priorities heavily dictate institutional funding pathways. Shane highlights his core leadership philosophy: sustainable regional prosperity depends entirely on building flexible, lifetime educational on-ramps rather than enforcing an all-or-nothing approach to enrollment.

Constructing these agile pipelines requires intense coordination, enduring the friction of legislative term limits, and actively breaking down fragmented media silos that keep local success stories hidden from the public. Viewers will walk away with a functional blueprint for how modern higher education can partner directly with industry leaders to support workers at any stage of their career lifecycles.

If you care about economic mobility, workforce adaptation, and public policy collaboration, you’ll get a lot from this. Please remember to subscribe, like, and share this episode to support the network. What is the single biggest barrier your local industry faces when trying to source trained talent? Let us know in the comments below.

@arkansasstatemedianetwork.com.

0:00 - Introduction & The Three-Job Leader

1:35 - Rethinking Campus: The Shift to Workforce Training

8:11 - Stackable Credentials & The Changing Student Pipeline

13:25 - From First-Gen Student to Speaker of the House

24:32 - Navigating Legislative Politics & The "Big Six" Budget

41:38 - Transforming Communities: Prison Education & Targeted Media

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Hello, I'm Todd Shields and I'm Chancellor here at Arkansas State University, and welcome to Built with a State. Today we have like a fantastic guest who I've known for a long time, who probably has the most unique and comprehensive perspective of higher education in the state than probably anybody else. I mean, you've been in the legislature and you've been in higher education, Department of Higher Education, and then you've been in the ASU system for over a decade. Yeah. And right now you're vice chancellor for university relations at Argentine. Vice President for University Relations, Vice President for the system, and your chancellor at three rivers.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Depends on what time of day it's to wish to three jobs with for one pay. Some of our other colleagues offered to add some more. I was like, I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. So you could do somebody.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

We just have shame. Three pay them once. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Or Carter, not smart. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Exactly. Well, you would there's a lot that we can cover there. Why don't we start with just like this moment right now? Why don't we start with like like what's what is it that you're learning about becoming because you've been in the system office for over a decade. Yeah. Now you're working in it with the with this with an institution in the system.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

It it it is a unique perspective. And thank you, first of all, for having me. I this is uh I think this is a brilliant, uh, brilliant idea to help kind of share our story. Uh it is a different perspective because in my time in higher ed, like you said, I've been either at the department or the system. Right. So it's my first time to actually be on campus. Yeah. And so it certainly has given me a different perspective. We've got some challenges uh at AHU3 Rivers that we're gonna have to overcome. But it's amazing to see the spirit of everybody, uh, of the staff and the students. I I got to hang out with the nursing students the other day. It's mostly who we have during the summer, right, uh down at Malbourne. Uh, and then we have obviously the Saline County Career Center that we operate. If you drive to Hot Springs, and as soon as you pass what's about to be Bucky's, yeah, uh, we're the we're the next building that you will see on the interstate. It's a good place to be. It is a great place to be, yeah. Uh gonna be five million people driving by here for you soon. So uh great advertisement uh for ASU3 Rivers. Um but it but it is interesting, uh, an interesting perspective to figure out what we're doing, what opportunities are we have we not pursued yet, especially with Saline County, and because it's a relatively new building, and currently up until this year, has only been high school students. Okay. And so we're gonna start offering college programs there this fall, which Saline County has always wanted. Right. Uh we we used to have a another campus uh in Benton, uh, but that went away. And so there's really not an institution per se in Saline County. So everybody's, I think, really excited about the offerings we're gonna have there. Yeah, absolutely. And there's some there's some pretty big industries around that area too that may need some incumbent workers, yeah, current workers upskilled. Anybody, anytime uh Jack Thomas, whose father is an ASU alum, uh, and one of the reasons I've where I am today, uh, Jack works with the Little Rock Chamber of Commerce. They've obviously brought in a lot of industries to Hillard Rock port. Right. When they bring those industries into town for their visits, they come directly to the Selene County Career Center. Oh, wow. And so we're doing some of the workforce training. We had a company in town the other day uh that's looking to locate in central Arkansas, and so they want to see, you know, obviously what we're doing there. Right. And uh so it's a great, you know, advantage for us to be able to have what we have there.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

There's a lot of institutions. I mean, the big one that everybody talks about all the time is Arizona States, right? Working with Starbucks and that kind of thing, and then working in Microsoft, yeah. You know, having this programs that are specifically tailored to an industry, not necessarily something that they'd want to share with somebody else, just that. Do you think there's going to be some demand in the Saline County area for that type of thing?

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Oh, yeah. Yeah, we're we're doing that now with Dessault Falconjet. Oh uh, we already are partnered with them through a hired grant. Uh West Fraser, which is a large lumber company based in Canada, actually. Oh, really? I didn't know that. Yeah. We actually, some of our people have actually been to Canada to do some training for them. They've got a facility in Texas. Uh and so Scott and uh Socora, who works for us, he just got back from Texas doing training down there. So that that's an interesting angle that I think a lot of times people don't understand about higher education. They think about degrees and programs. Right. A big part of especially the two-year colleges uh all throughout our system uh is is providing workforce training for business and industry. I mean, you look at AU BB, they've got the John Deere program, ASU Newport, they do the training for electric cooperatives for all the linemen. I mean, we've got a big old field out back, nothing but utility poles. Right. Uh, and so they're doing that training. ASU Mid-South. Right. Uh they do the training for FedEx mechanics. Right. They've disassembled a FedEx plane, trucked it over the bridge, and reassembled it. Uh ASU Mountain Home, they do uh training in the boat manufacturing area. So we all kind of have different specialties uh in our system, and it's it is important to those businesses and industries that we are responding to what their needs are for their workforce.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

I really feel like that that's one of the areas where you know you mentioned traditionally people don't think about it. And that's true, even from the academic side, we don't think through, okay, here's a program, somebody's saying that they need, yeah, and we would go through and get it accredited, but then we wouldn't really have those conversations with industry about is this giving the student, the graduate, or even the your folks that are taking it that are working with you, are they getting the skills that they need? And we're finding that if hey, if we add some things here, if we emphasize some things more, they're more successful. But it is designing something. So I always I like to talk about workforce development as a continuum, right? Um, because what we're seeing here with steel industry and things like that, they're saying, well, we need accountants that have the steel industry background. We need, of course, they need engineers, but they need chemists and they need supply chain managers, and they have all this type of things that they need. Really, the whole, if you think it's about a it's a whole the business ecosystem, the whole business system, they need everybody that can have that background.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

And so and that's where you I think y'all have really excelled here at A State with your leadership, but especially in that still, it still is a and a great example, uh, whether it's Hydrol or the steel industry or other partners we have is they need the person that's on the line, right? And we can partner with our two-year partners, whether it's Arkansas Northeastern, Newport, yeah, to cover that part. But what y'all have designed to help address the rest of the business, right, uh, as well as engineers, a lot of people don't think, okay, we still they need engineers and line workers, right? No, they need everything marketing, supply chain, finance, accounting. That's yeah, it was at Oakline. Exactly. Uh, you know, the other day, you know, you're talking about vet school, you know, and our kids doing rotations during the racing season so they can experience that. But he said, hey, right, you know, we print money over here, you know. Yeah, so we need accountants, we need the back end. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you know, we need we need the whole back end of the house. Uh it's we're not just horse racing or gaming, there's a whole end to this that that we need workers for.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

And it changes the view too of the student deck, like, you know, when they graduate with whatever certificate or associates or bachelor's or master's or PhD, it changes like once they're graduate, especially today, uh they're not done. Right. I mean, it's we've always talked about life along the way. Exactly. But now you're really faced with it. Oh, yeah. You know, you might be five years into your career or two years into your career or 30 years into your career going, I need to go buy this.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

I need to go retool. Right. Exactly. I need to keep up, right? And that's what I tell kids, you know, all the time. And I've said this for years, whether it was in the legislature or in or in higher ed, not everybody is immediately suited to a role right at right after they graduate to go to Arkansas State University in Jobsburg.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

I went to college with a lot of guys who probably should have started elsewhere before they got here. Uh and because there's opportun, but a lot of times there's that perception that you you're not a fa and not a success if you don't immediately go to college. And that's not the case. Right. Uh, it's not for everybody at the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

And that's what I say. Start out getting a certificate for six months. Sure. Uh, or a one-year certificate, or a two-year associate degree and work your way up to where then, because a lot of kids today, I've got a godson that's going into the tenth grade and he thinks he knows what he wants to do. And I told him, You're probably going to change your mind ten times before you get there.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

So don't put all your eggs in in one basket. Go try an assortment of ideas you think you might, because you may take one class and that's it. I'm not going there. Yeah. And so that's an important thing that I think we offer as a system is you can start out at ASU Three Rivers in a six-month certificate program, and it's all stackable. Right. You're going to get college credit that, okay, I'm going to go work for a little while. Life happens for people. Right. Okay, I want to go back. Right. And then you can go on to the next thing, and then eventually you could end up with a degree from Arkansas State. Exactly. Or Henderson State. Right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Just keep stacking. Exactly. Just keep stacking with all your on and off ramps your entire lifetime.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Yeah, we're going to do partnerships at Three Rivers with people who are going into apprenticeship programs, electrical, plumbing. They're going to get college credit for that. That's that they're going to be able to keep and maintain if they figure out, hey, that's not what I want to do. Or they get out there and think, you know, I could do this on my own. Right. But I don't know how to deal with accounting. I don't know how to start a business and all those things. Then they can come back exactly and build upon that. Get those skills that they have.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, it really does change how we look at. I mean, we traditionally we've just looked at, okay, who's the 18, 19 year old that's coming to college? And now we're not giving that up. But at the same time, hey, it's not just people that are going to the associate's degree or a bachelor's degree, but it's the whole span that will workforce.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

There's so many kids. That's that's always been the thing. There was a report we ran when I was at the department. They still run it today. We talk a lot about it. Our colleague Jenny Methwin talks about the gray box.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Uh, but it was the one I always said that kept me up at night because we you run this college going rate report. Right. And Arkansas is one of the lowest in the country. We're about 40 per 42 percent of high school graduates who enroll in college, some somewhere, some sort of college the next fall. Right. Where nationally it's about 60 percent.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

And so and that that ebbs and flows sometimes with how the economy is. And then you have some kids that that go into the military. And so you try to get it, you gotta get a real true number as to what that really is. But we did a study one time looking at reverse degrees, some kids that have college, you know, but they had to stop out for whatever reason. But if they had enough hours, we could go back and at least get them an associate degree and trying to encourage them to go on.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

So we did a pick a cohort of class, you know, the year 2015, and and saw where they were five years later. And it obviously tells you what we know is that if you only have a high school diploma five years from now, you're basically making minimum wage. If you go and get at least some sort of school beyond high school, you can double your money in just one year. Yeah. And so it's important uh to get that message out, especially to those who are not enrolling in somewhere the next fall, that you can still come back. You can come back at any time. You know, college, you don't have to go to college immediately right out. Right. We're gonna be here. You know, and we've got programs and we've got options that are gonna help you to, you know, get a skill where you can go out into the workforce and and and make a good living. I mean, we've got kids in our automotive program at Sleen that can go make a hundred thousand bucks.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Uh, you know, and there's a lot of uh jobs like that that make good money.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Right. Yeah. Well, and it seems to me that like with it's that's definitely true. And it seems like it's even more true now with how fast technology is. Yeah. I mean, if you're keeping up with, you know, with AI, if you're keeping up with cybersecurity, if you're keeping up with anything that's happening, it's like every other week, every month for sure, there's something new. Yeah. And I really need to learn this. I really need to learn how to do that. And it's different in every field, but and the idea that you need to just keep on stacking and keep on learning is probably more true than ever.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

And it's gonna be ever evolving, especially with AI. You're exactly right. I mean, and that's what we were talking about uh on campus the other day is a lot of the programs we have are AI proof. You know, you're still gonna need a plumber, electrician, uh, construction welders, all those kinds of things. AI is not gonna be able to do those kinds of things. But the person who knows how to do it with AI will do better. We do better. Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

And they will, they will, they will make themselves invaluable. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about your time here at A-State and what you accomplished and what you learned here and how that's helped and shaped your career.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Well, I I wouldn't be anywhere uh were it not for A-State taking a chance on me. Uh I was, I always say, as part of my commencement speech I used to give and still give, I guess, uh, is that in high school I was in that half of the class that made the top half possible. That's great. Uh so you know, I'd I've always said I was never I've never been the smartest guy in the room. Uh, but what I learned is nobody was going to outwork me. That's great. Uh, but A-State took a chance on me. I mean, I by no measure, you know, would most colleges ever take a chance. And that's why I've always loved this place. I want to be a sportscaster. That was my initial reason for coming here. Yeah, yeah. It was our radio TV program. Yeah. And when you get to Little Rock and you turn on the local news and your new residence uh at the ASU system office, um, most of the people that do the news and sports on Little Rock TV, this is where they went. Right. It was Arkansas State. Right. And that's so that's why I came for the program. Yeah, but it the the thing I remember, I was thinking about this the other day, um, of just how I remember my first day on campus. Um I remember my parents driving away and uh thinking, you know, I'm first generation college student. Right. Only time I'd ever been away from home was for basketball camp or boy state. Yeah. And, you know, here I am. I don't know what to do, where to go. I know where my room is, and that's about it. Yeah. And if it were not for uh a new student orientation, yes, and students uh who were older in in class who embraced me and helped me kind of understand, okay, here's where you need to go, here's what you need to do. Uh a staff, uh, I mean, I I think back to Dr. Richman, who was a former president here, and Dr. Stripling and Cheryl, uh now Spite, Cheryl Hink, and Summer DePro, who's now the Chancellor at Pulaski Tech. Right. She was my big sister, sorority big sister. If for those people, my big brother, uh Barry Blackwell, and I think about all of them and the impact they had on me, or else it would have been easy to go home. I mean, I could have easily gotten in that car and driven back to Bright.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Because there was hardly at that time anybody from my hometown, so I really didn't know anybody. And so I was able to make connection quickly. Yeah. And and and get involved early. And I think that was the key to me being able to stay here. Right. But it was also the Jones World community. Yeah. Uh, not just the campus community, yeah, but people around town, you know, leaders and and those kind of people uh who embraced, you know, me and tried to help in any way they could. And then I think about, you know, it's not just about what you're gonna do academically, right? It's about building relationships. Yeah. And ASTAKE gives you that opportunity because there's a lot of events where you get to meet people in the community, you get to meet people from outside the community who are alums. Right. Uh, you know, I mentioned Kirkland Thomas a minute ago. I mean, I was a junior, uh, about to be SGA president my senior year and and center prior uh was on campus one day for I don't even remember what it was for. Right. It was in this in this union. Right. And they're coming down the steps. Kirkley introduces me and says, Hey, uh, who's an A Kirkley who's an A-state alum, fraternity brother? He said, Hey, you need to come up and be an intern this summer. That's great. What's that? I didn't know. I mean, uh, nobody in my family. My aunt uh was on the Bryant City Council, and that was about it. Right. I always say the the most famous member of my family was my third cousin Joe, who ride the box out branch of the Benton State Bank three times. I mean, uh, so I you know, I didn't really have a lot to go on here uh in terms of family history. And you guys Senator David Pryor saying you need to come and so I got to I got to spend my last summer of college in in DC being for him. And so uh I mean you know fantastic. Oh, yeah. I mean, just an amazing guy. He really helped me understand uh the about the importance of being kind, yes, listening to people, absolutely, uh collaborating with people. Yes. Um, I remember one day he got something got him fired up happening on the Senate floor, and he came back and got all of us in turn. He's like, Come on, we're going to the Senate floor, and we thought, oh man, we're fixing to go, we're gonna go see a fight or something. Right, right. And he and Bob Dole, Senator Bob Dole, they get on the floor and they start, we always said they started calling each other every name in the book without calling every name in the book. But it was about policy.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

And they were arguing, they were arguing about whatever was on the floor that day. And when it was over, they put their arm around each other and went to dinner. Yes. And he came back the next morning and he said, I wanted y'all to go see that. Right. Because I wanted you to see the example of we can agree to disagree. Right. And we walked out and we had a nice dinner together. Right. And that was all that was a powerful message to me that I hopefully have carried you know throughout my time in politics. But yeah, I mean, when I when I graduated from Mark South State, I never figured I'd enter into public service, although it had been something I've all I'd always been interested in. My the state representative who I replaced, uh, I always kidded at him about this. He got elected when I was in kindergarten and went to my church. And so I'd watched him growing up and I always thought it was unique and uh something I might have an interest in. Boy State really turned that light on for me. Yeah, yeah. Uh that was a big uh had a big impact on me wanting to to maybe look at public service. Uh, but I still had a sports caster idea that I was gonna be. But uh but there were a lot of different things. You know, my my brother got leukemia while I was a freshman here. Uh and our community really rallied around my family. Right. And I asked my dad, you know, they had softball tournaments and platelet drives and all these things. My fraternity raised money to buy him a recliner. So when he got home, yeah. And so I asked my dad one day, I was like, Dad, we'll never be able to repay, you know, all of these people for all they've done for us. And he said, son, that's not the point, is you've got to find your way of giving back. Wow. And so public service became that for me. Wow. Uh was my way to give back to the community that had given our family so much during one of the most difficult times. Right. Thankfully, uh prayerfully, a lot of lot through a lot of prayer, and and the Lord has blessed us. My brother's still alive, he's beat it twice. That's had a stem cell last year. So but it but but this, you know, the experiences I had here, the relationships I built through there. I mean, there was a guy when I was a senior, the guy who was speaker of the House of Representatives with Bobby Hogue from Jonesboro.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Uh another guy that was down on the Senate end, a guy named Mike BB, uh, was a powerful senator. Yeah, they came to campus for a couple of events. And so I got to meet them in different settings. Right. So two years later, when I'm 24 and somehow I got elected to the legislature. At 24. Yeah. That's awesome. I knew these guys, you know, and so they were able to help me kind of navigate, you know, the legislative process, kind of took me under their wing. Right. Uh, to kind of help me kind of learn and and the things I need to do. But all of that happened because there's because of the relationships I garnered here at Arkansas State. Right. Right. And then soon after that, you were elected speaker. Yeah. Yeah, I was 28. Uh, Governor BB now at the time, Senator BB was going to be the president pro tem of the Senate.

unknown 21:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

And uh, I was not planning on running um for speaker. And then my seat mate was gonna run and sadly passed away. Uh, and so all of the people come to me and say, hey, you gotta you gotta do this. Wow. And I mean, I was 26. I was sitting there thinking, wait a minute. Uh, but at that time we had the shortest term limits in America. You could only serve two, three-year terms in the house. And I remember in my first term, one of the older members, uh, I got to serve with all those guys and gals and ladies who had been there for 50 years, 30, 40, 50 years. And one of them came to me and said, What do you want to do your last term? I'm like, Lewis, I just I just got here. Right. He's like, Well, you only got two more. You know, you gotta figure out what do you want to be? You want to chair this or you want to represent a speaker? I was like, Right. You know, let me get that let me figure out where the bathrooms are and then I'll get back to you. Right. And so, so they did, they and they approached me because back then the speaker election was during the session.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

And so Really only been there two and a half years. Wow. And and uh they came to me and and we did it. Uh we made it happen and ran ran and got elected.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

And then so in two years, how did you build so many coalitions and build so much trust?

SPEAKER_00 22:16

How did you do all that? That's a really good question. Um, I think I one thing is I really grew up quickly and matured fast when my brother got sick. Sure. He had a 10-year-old kid, so I became his parent that summer. And so we all kind of had to, I had to grow up and and help my family. Sure. And I think that helped me. Interesting, yeah. Uh the other thing is when I went in, I mean they put a baby bottle in my chair on the first day, big old baby bottle. Uh and so I knew the only way they were that I was going to garner their respect was if I was willing to put in the work.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Right. And so people like Dave Bisby and Jody Mahoney and a lot of those guys, I I figured out real quickly who the leaders were. Yeah. And went to them and said, hey, I'm here to work.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

Put me to work.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

I'll stay late, I'll work weekends, I'll do whatever.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

And that that really ended up paying dividends. I I wanted to be involved in education because the district, it was important to me, but also the district I represented, it was probably the it was the biggest issue of why people were locating there. Okay. And so I really, you know, spent a lot of time uh, you know, learning the process, learning K-12, higher ed. I had to obviously have a little high higher ed background, but but I think it was my willingness to work. Yeah. Uh and that's that goes back to I'm I wasn't never gonna be the smartest guy in the room, but nobody was gonna outwork me.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

That's great.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

And I I think I garnered their respect because it it does require a lot of work, especially in in that day when you only had six years, you had to pick up things really quick. Really fast. Really. And so I I think that's really what kind of won those guys over and ladies to that I could handle the job of being a speaker. Um being a speaker requires a certain demeanor. Uh you've got to be able to you know put away any kind of partisan attitudes because you're the speaker of the whole house. Right. And that really has helped me a lot. Exactly. Right. And so it really helped. I grew up really uh and it helped me when I went down to the Senate, and it's helped me ever since. So you learn to be more of a collaborator. Right. Uh, and I think the other biggest thing is communication. And when you and I have talked about that uh a lot, that was something else I took with me to the Senate and to ADHE. When I when I went down to ADHE, that was one of the big challenges with presidents and chancellors. Agency had really not been a good communicator of what was going on, what the administration was asking of them, what the board was asking of them. And and so I in what year did you start ADHE? That would have been 2011.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I remember being a faculty member thinking that I could never keep up with what was going on and never couldn't really figure out what was happening. And some of that was information age, but you know, information is so much more free now. But it's also that there wasn't a lot of communication.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

And that was the one thing when I was sent down there, I was saying, you know, we've got we've got to open up these lines so the campuses trust, you know, what it is we're trying to do, trying to move forward, governor's agendas, and those kind of things. And so being speaker, I think really helped prepare me for my other roles that I've had because you you got to bring in everybody. I that's what I always said when we wrote the school funding formula bill, uh, any other big piece of legislation. You bring in everyone who has a stake in the game. You bring in the smartest people, uh, the people who who understand it, know it, have a history with it, and you put them all in a room and you say, here's our problem.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Right. Let's fix it.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Let's fix it. Yeah. How do we solve it? And you take everybody's opinion and advice at some point in time, right? Me or you have to call the ball and say, okay, this is the direction we're going. Right. My hope is with everybody at the table, we can some come to some consensus that this is where we're going. But if not, I'm going to take all this input, process it, and then I'll I'll give a direction. Right. And see, and that usually, nine times out of ten, right, you would come to consensus in that room.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

I mean, because I've always felt like, and you tell me if you agree, but I've always felt like I know this part of the world, like this is what I can see and I understand and my experiences and what I, you know, what I can process and how I interpret things. But somebody else may see something completely different, and somebody else may see something way over there. And the only way I'm gonna see everything is if I have their input. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

And you've been great about that. Uh, especially I'm I as I've watched you with a lot of different campus issues, is is getting the perspective of everyone because you you're right. I don't know everything. And a lot of times I don't know what I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Yeah, most of the time I think that, and particularly, I think even in today's so things change so fast and work so fast, and people become so highly specialized. You've got to have so many people in the room, otherwise you're gonna miss something.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

And it's the same with with communication. I mean, that's changed so much. You know, I remember you know, when I first got in the legislature, everything was by letter. Yes. Uh and then went to email. And now most people don't read email, so it's right, you know, so we're texting everybody. And so you're having to change, you know, you're trying to process all this information and trying to change how you communicate it out uh in real time. And it and it's a challenge, especially in higher education, because we're we're not known to be the fastest to respond in terms because we have you know processes to ensure that everybody has a say. And that doesn't always correlate sometimes to the business world for them to understand that. But at the end of the day, we usually get it right. Yes. Uh, because you let everybody have uh a say in that process. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Absolutely. Do you do with all of your experiences that in the legislature and then in higher education, talk a little bit about how you see institutions relating to the legislature or the legislature-relating institutions and institutions with the higher education and vice versa too. Because it's always those relationships have really changed over time.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

They have. Um, you know, when you back in the day when when I was in in college, a lot of those people had been around for a long time. Uh, and so they knew everything about us, yes, about the institution. And when we learn over time, right, get it right.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

It makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

And they'd been to campus. They used to. We could bring them to campus and we'd have a uh legislative weekend. You can't do that anymore due to ethics laws. Uh, but so they had at least some familiarity when someone would but back then, Don Tilton or Robert Evans or whoever would go and visit with them, they would have some familiarity with campus because they've been on it. Right. And that that's always been a challenge. Uh, the other challenge is, you know, just in terms of where we are as a state educationally, most of my colleagues, you know, back in the day did not have a college education.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Uh they were they all had different professions, but not everybody went to college. Right. And so trying to explain the importance of it sometimes was a challenge. And getting champions who really cared about higher education. I was fortunate when I served in the House and Senate, we had uh a bipartisan group of people who were big fans who were supportive of higher education and things we were trying to do, trying to grow scholarship programs, those kind of things, who worked very closely together. Right. Uh Dave Bisbee, Gilbert Baker, Jim Argue, uh a lot of us who who really cared about pushing the uh higher ed agenda further, right, uh met, but but then we were all gone.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

You look up and you're like, I'm the only one left, and then I'm gone. And so the challenge has been trying to cultivate people. Um and so much time because of the Lakeview case back in 2000, right? So much of the legislature's time has been spent on K-12. Right. Uh, because they have to do the uh this adequacy study every year that came out of the court. And so it really kind of moved us over to the side. And so that's the challenge I find in in my role today is trying to explain what we're doing and how we're doing it, how we're responding to bit the needs of business and industry, and and so it's a constant education process for them to understand what they're doing. But when they see things that are tangible to them, like the vet school uh or like steel or the med school with NYIT, though they see that because they deal with people who need a doctor or they're or they're uh they're have cattle or horses. Right. And so it it becomes real to them the kind of things that we're addressing. And that's the thing I've said, and I said it when we did the panel the other day at the rural development conference. The thing I love about what we're doing at Arkansas State is we are working to try to solve problems in our community. Right. Whether it's the med school, whether it's the vet school, whether it's working with the steel industry or the food service industry. Right. What your leadership has provided is we're we're trying to address the needs of our community and our state. Right. And we're not trying to be who we're not, right. Or somebody else. Right. We're trying to focus on what we can do and do it really good. Right. And we've been very successful at that. We really have.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

And you know, one of the things that I see is that, you know, we've got such a great group of chancellors that I have now that when when I'm talking about, you know, filling these workforce continuum needs in different areas, whether it's steel or whether it's transportation or whether it's you know logistics or manufacturing or anything like that, we we we can do so much more together, keeping this whole idea of let's work together. I I just think there's so many things that we can do as a system that a lot of other places and systems can't.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Right. And and I think our our chancellors are very excited that you're gonna be in in your new position. Well, I'm excited to work with them. That's true. You know, some of our Jonesburg friends are probably not ex as uh as excited that you're gonna be able to do that. Keep telling them I'm not leaving. You're not leaving. I mean, he's gonna be here more than he thinks he has. Uh, but but we also need him at a lot of other places. Yeah, right. Uh and so we do have a great group. I've been blessed to work with all of them for several years um who really care deeply about the communities they serve. They do uh and the work that they do and are very creative. I mean, they've all been really helpful to me in just a few weeks that I've been down at Three Rivers, yeah, uh, with advice or can, you know, right reaching out, you know, just hey, I'm here to help if you need something. And and so I think the collaboration of us all is gonna make the whole system stronger. And with you at the helm, I think it's just gonna be even better because you understand Arkansas from your time in at the university at Arkansas State. Uh, and so you understand the dynamics of Arkansas, the way it's changed over the last several years. You certainly do. Well, we we we do, yeah. And so I I think we're gonna be able to put all of those things together to serve the needs of the communities that we serve. And so I'm excited uh that you're gonna be in this new role. Um it's they're unique communities, and uh, they're all a little bit different than the other.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

Uh, and you'll you'll pick up on that really quickly.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Uh, but it's interesting too that our institutions are uniquely distinct too. Yeah, they really are. They are they are. I mean, it's so I mean, they've they've done a great job of responding to the needs that the industries that are there, the communities that are there, they've really done a great job at it.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

And we always know we can be better. I mean, we're not and we're not perfect, and there's ways we can do more uh where we serve. And that's I think that's you know, our goal as a system uh is to continue to grow who we are. Uh and you know, like you said, you know, put these students through a pipeline that eventually feeds them uh either here to Jonesborough or to Arkadelpia at Henderson, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Um and then keep continuing learning forever. That's just that's one of the things that I keep telling students today is that you know, I always thought, and for a while I really think that was really true. When I finished my degree, I kind of knew what I needed to know, yeah, and I put it to work. Yeah. And really now, more than ever, I'm just like, there's so much I don't know, and it's changing all the time. So I just the idea of just keep learning forever and just stay curious and keep on absorbing what you can is more important now than it ever. It's always important, but it's more important now.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

No, it is. It is because it's an ever-changing world and you've got to be able to evolve and change and think differently. And uh the one thing that still holds true though is developing relationships. All right, and and continuing to be involved in those communities where you develop those relationships where people know to come to you and say, Hey, right, I got a problem. Right. Can you help me?

SPEAKER_01 34:53

It may even be even more. I'm maybe I'm thinking out loud here, but um, it may even be more important now because there's so many interactions that are just email, just a text, or just a phone call, and then the number of people who've developed real relationships where you can call somebody up for help or somebody else for advice, and yeah, they'll answer the phone, they'll know, yeah, I want to help. Right. The seems like maybe the relationships have always been really important. Maybe they're even more important now.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

I think they are. Uh, I really I truly think they are. And that's the same way working with the legislature or governor with state agencies. Right. They're all willing to help. Yeah. Uh, and so we've got to we've got to continue to develop those relationships and say, hey, here's what we're thinking. Right. Let them figure out, hey, here's how we think we can help you reach that goal. Right. And so there's a willingness there, I think, to help in higher education at that level, state and federal. I mean, we've had great support, obviously, from Senator Bozeman and Crawford. Yeah. Uh, with with ideas that we've had say, hey, this is where we think we need to be going. And having those relationships obviously has made a difference. Has.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Yep, you're right. Those relationships are key. They really are. And I think that is true. I mean, the two ideas of that, man, you know, the Department of Higher Education, the legislature with technology, with industry, just those relationships in all those areas are just crucial for success anymore.

unknown 36:17

Really.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

We can do it, and we've got the team to do it. We do have the team to do it. We really do have a great team. So I'm excited about the future. Me too. I'm excited about what you're going to do down in Three Rivers. I really am. Thank you. I'm looking forward to it. What are you what are you uh most looking forward to this fall?

SPEAKER_00 36:32

I think being around students more. Yeah. Uh I mean, I uh and that's gonna be a challenge for you that you're gonna be at the system office. So you're welcome to come to campus anytime. Absolutely. Uh you know, I'll be there. I've always said that's what I loved about the downside of the system office is you know, you're in a little rock, but you're not on a campus. And so I've always loved coming to campus. Yeah. Uh and because I think it keeps you young uh to be around uh students and faculty and just listening to the discussions and and those kind of things that happen in class. And so I think I'm looking forward uh to that. We're looking at you know being a creative and and partnerships. I mean, I had a phone call, change bytes with NYIT the other day uh about paramedic and EMT and and what they're doing with that and how they can you know work with us. And so being creative and looking, you know, how can we grow what we're doing to meet the needs of business and industry, right, uh, and be creative in how we do that uh is what I'm looking forward to. Just the discussion with our staff and talking about their hopes and dreams and challenges that we face. And so it's been definitely a different perspective. I think it will probably, you know, will help me with my role at the system. Um because I think I've learned a little bit in a short amount of time that will be helpful. Right. Uh that will be helpful to me that you don't always get being at the system office. Sure. And so I think that's gonna be a unique perspective, obviously, you're gonna bring uh to the system is yeah, you know, hey, I I would I just came from a campus, you know, this is what is gonna be. That's how it plays out on the on the field, exactly. Yeah, and so I think having that perspective is gonna be very helpful. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

Well, we're I'm excited too. I couldn't be more excited with the people too. Yeah, I really do. So, in all all the times when you've been had all these different experiences, different levels, do you see anything that another system in another state or um in another location is doing that you think maybe we should be doing?

SPEAKER_00 38:30

You know, it's a that's an interesting question. I have you know worked in in several states. I chaired the the Southern Legislative Conference. Right. Right. And so you get it's interesting you go to these, you know, you see all these statistics about where Arkansas ranks, right? You know, 48th, 49th, 50th. And you go to these meetings uh with other legislators from other states or other higher ed leaders when I was in uh at higher ed, you go to the CEO with the directors of of the other states, and you go to these meetings and you you talk about what you're doing and you're listening to what they're doing. And sometimes I would go there and think, we're like years ahead of these people. Yeah, you know, right. There were some that were just starting kindergarten, you know, wow, mandatory kindergarten when I was in the legislature, like we've been doing that for 20 years. Yeah, thank you, Joanne Nally. Yeah, exactly. And so uh so you sometimes you would go to those meetings and think, you know, we're not that bad. And if you look at it, I think that's one of the biggest challenges we've had as a state. You may be 48th, 49th, or 50th, but what we fail to always look at is what's the gap between us and number 25? Yeah, that's a good thing. It's not always that far. That's that's uh but we started way behind, uh, and and and that's primarily the South.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Um the South has always had that challenge. It started, I mean, obviously, you know, the Northeast had education and college education well before it made its way down to the South. And so sometimes some of that is generational. Yep. It's gonna take generations before we get to certain levels. Uh and so I it does, you know, you can't take things that other states are doing. You don't always have to reinvent the wheel.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

Right. That's true.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

Uh and there were a lot of ideas and programs we'd bring back from these kind of meetings, but but I I I like the things that we're doing. Yes. I think we're I don't think we're missing anything.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

Based on what I see other systems or or other states doing. I follow, I get emails about what's happening in other states in their legislature and all those kind of things. Sometimes because our legislature only meets in regular session every other year. Right. Some states are in every year. You kind of get a preview sometimes of what's happening in other states that you're going to see come here. Gotcha. Yeah. Uh, and a lot of times they go to those meetings and they bring stuff back that we'll see in the next session.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

Uh, and there may be, you know, and I've said this many times, in my 30 next year, big my 30th year, I've not seen a lot of new ideas.

SPEAKER_01 40:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

They're basically the same ideas, maybe in a different form.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

Interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

But as a state, our challenges have always been education. Yes. Human services and Medicaid, and prisons. Yeah. And healthcare. Uh, and though those issues, we used to call them the big six by the time you did K-12, higher ed, workforce, healthcare, prisons, the big six. The big six take about 94 cents of every dollar of state. That's interesting. Yeah. And so once you get past that, there's not much left over. Right. Parks and tourism, you know, those kind of things. But but those big issues have been the same since the day I entered the legislature that they are today. Wow. Uh, and our big challenges. And that's one thing I am looking forward to when you talk about Three Rivers. We have uh a correctional unit in our backyard, right? And that we've not been working with uh in terms of of college level courses. So we're gonna meet with them. And so giving you ASU Newport does it now, but a second chance. Yeah. You know, the more we can get them out of prison, back into society, absolutely reintegrate it into society where they're not going back. We used to say, I used to always say we spend about $16,000 to house an inmate, but $7,000 to educate a child. Wow. Something inherently wrong there. Yeah. And so if we can start addressing that issue to where we don't get there, uh then that's more money we can either give back to taxpayers or put back into uh growing programs and growing training and growing degrees that business and industry are looking for.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Let me go out even further. It seems it's I'm just gonna talk about Arkansas as a state. Yeah. It seems like right now, Arkansas as a state just is really at a transformational time. I agree. I mean, it just seems that like there's so many amazing things happening in all the four corners and the in the in Little Rock in the center of the state. It just seems like so many things are coming together. I'm like, I look at places I lived when I was a kid and I see, you know, out migration, companies leaving. You know, my wife grew up in California and lots of companies are leaving, people are leaving, and um, but we're not seeing that at all. We're seeing the opposite people want to come here. People are coming here, industries are coming here, new industries all the time are coming here. Um, it seems like we're gonna have a ribbon cutting every other month or something like that. I mean, you know what I mean? But do you do you agree with that? I mean, I mean, I just seeing that really, and I'm not really looking now. We had these kinds of opportunities before.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

I I chaired my Celine County's Economic Development Commission, and so I see a lot of these companies that are coming. I mean, obviously, we're about to open up Bucky's. Yeah, right. Right. So, you know, but it it is interesting. Some of it has to do with business climate, obviously. Yes. Uh governor, legislature, uh, several governors and legislators have really focused on economic development. Yes. Uh creating spaces to where they can come to. I mean, you heard a lot of discussion now about West Memphis or Steele or the port, right? Uh, Camden. You've got you know the missile base uh where they make a lot of the missiles down there, right? Fort Smith. There are a lot of great things. One of the challenges I've always said about Arkansas is there are a lot of great things happening. Not everybody knows about it.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

It's true.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

And so it's tough to get that message out that there's something great happening down in this corner, exactly, uh, but you don't always see that on you know the local news or the statewide newspaper. And so and that's why I think doing something like this is invaluable. Yes. Is finding different ways to help get the message out. Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

Because not everybody knows everything that a state might be doing. Well, and you know, today the communication environment's so fragmented. It is so you know, what what one group will listen to and read or or subscribe to is very different than another. I mean, I remember when there were basically three nightly news channels and your local news and a big newspaper in the state, and maybe a local paper. And then everybody was kind of on the same page. Yeah. Now it's just these information like silos. You have no idea what's happening over here or what's happening over here. You just get what information is in your silo. Exactly. And it's really tough. And so, what is unique about this podcast is that we're making sure that the people that are in these different silos are all getting bits and pieces of it. So we're, you know, doing this, we'll be able to continue to talk about hey, what's happening at A State with the vet school and make sure that those people are very different than what's having A State with the steel industry. Make sure that those people know what's happening. Um, and the legislature, it's really tough to make sure that they know what's happening. But if we can target messages to each one of those different areas, then we're much more likely to get in there than if, say, we try to get on a nightly news or oh yeah, make them make a newspaper, which is you know, not everybody's reading that same thing anymore.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Yeah, and and and this helps break it down for me. Right. Uh, you know, sometimes in higher ed or education, we can we can use terms that not everybody uses on a general basis. Very true. Uh we were talking about that when I was driving up this morning about we're going to be offering some programs, but if you if you just look at the sheet that we posted, it's confusing.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

So how do we break that down further to maybe add a photo or a video to explain this is what HVAC is, this is what welding is. And it's not. Yes. Uh and so right. And so uh you it you've got to be more creative in breaking that down into the to the people where their interest area lies. And so that's I think this is an amazing idea. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

Well again, a group of people thinking through like how do we communicate what's actually happening at a state in the system, what's happening in the industry areas, and how do we communicate with all these different constituencies when we can't really call them all, we can't really make them also how do we communicate with them? And really, this was the group, again, the collection of ideas coming up with like, oh, this is what we could do. And it's in, you know, this is really, you know, an A state grad that you know has this business that we're working with that does amazing things. And you know, we've got different channels for different things that we're just hoping to expand into.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

So when you think about it, did you ever think you'd be sitting in a room with a camera? I did not having an hour-long conversation, no, and that people would actually listen to it. No, that's the thing. Oh, would not, you know, sometimes our attention spans are so short, exactly. But it's amazing how many people will go up and down the road, right? How many people travel and go up and down the road and listen to podcasts.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

Uh yeah, it's it's truly the like you said, the game is is it's totally changed in terms of the way people listen and get their information.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

Right. And you know, you we take out little clips so that some people can go, oh, they're talking about that. I'm gonna go listen to the thing. Yeah, but the little clip will get them brought drawn in. So yeah, it's it's the game's changing, so we're learning and you know, figuring this out. This is always new too, yeah. Right. And so, you know, I don't know. We've got, you know, I think seven different channels now, channels meaning different topics. Yeah. And then we just want to just keep adding to them because you know, all the great things that are happening here and system and in the state. Um, we just want to make sure that everybody knows what's going on. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

That's important. And it's important to help them also understand. You know, I was thinking about some of this driving up here about some of the things, whether I was in the legislature or at higher ed that I've been involved with on campus. Right. ABI building happened when I was speaker of the house. And the change over to uh Wilson Hall with the Medsman when I was at ADHE and uh several of the the buildings on campus that I've been involved in in various and different capacities, right? And and and how this campus has evolved since since I was a student is is pretty amazing to think about. Um and so it not everybody knows that history. Right. Uh and so we try to make sure we share those stories and tell those stories and and talk about the people who came before us. You know, there were there are a lot of people here when I was a student uh who are no longer with us, uh, who really helped lay the foundation for where we are today as a university and really made a difference uh in in continuing to grow this place. So it's important to to share those kind of stories.

SPEAKER_01 49:16

Absolutely. No, we did or those are invaluable. Yeah, you know, lots of lessons to learn. You don't know them, you'll repeat them. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly right. Well, Shane, thank you so much for being here with us today. I mean, this has been fabulous. And like I said at the beginning, I think you're probably the only person who has such a global view of everything about higher education.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

I've been I've been very blessed and fortunate to be uh do what I've done in my career. We're very to work with people like you.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

Well, we're very blessed to have you like you work with you. It's always looking forward to it. It's been fun working with you for decades.

SPEAKER_00 49:49

Long time. We're decades now, right? Exactly. It's been fun.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

You were just a uh professor when I first met. I think, yeah. You were probably a speaker and I was just a professor, right? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Yeah, we go back a long way, and I'm looking forward to working with you and me too.

SPEAKER_01 50:03

I'm excited. Me too. Thanks for so much. Thanks so much for being here with us. My pleasure. We appreciate you too. And uh, for those people that are watching and listening, please don't forget to subscribe and like uh so you get all the channels and updates and everything that's coming from Built with A State and all the things we're doing here at Arkansas State Media Network. Thank you. Have a great day.