Aligning Higher Ed: What Employers Actually Need Today

Traditional degree pipelines are failing to keep pace with rapid industrial expansion and technological disruption. With billions of dollars in capital investment flooding into regional markets right now, organizations cannot afford to rely on outdated educational models that leave critical operational gaps unfilled. Dr. Todd Shields, newly named President of the Arkansas State University System, sits down to break down how he is shifting regional education from a theoretical public good to an agile, applied workforce engine.

We sit down to examine how seven unique campus ecosystems can collaborate to address the entire workforce continuum, from entry-level technical skills to advanced research on electric arc furnaces. We explore how institutions are aligning with intermodal logistics hubs, navigating private-good educational models, and deploying custom AI agents to automate administrative workflows. The conversation highlights his overarching philosophy that a university system must operate like Switzerland for industry competitors, serving as a neutral collaborator that pours jet fuel on existing regional strengths rather than dictating top-down academic mandates.

Real transformation requires dismantling historical institutional isolation and confronting the logistical realities of massive economic growth. We dissect the friction involved in auditing legacy degree programs, including the humbling necessity of scrapping long-standing core curriculum requirements when employers confirm they no longer drive results. Viewers will walk away with a practical framework for fostering brutal internal transparency, a mindset shift toward viewing employees as lifelong learners from K-12 through retirement, and a critical warning against prematurely replacing human capital with automation instead of upskilling your existing team.

If you care about regional workforce development, applied research partnerships, and strategic AI integration, you’ll get a lot from this. Make sure to subscribe to the channel and share this episode with other leaders who are building for the future. What is the biggest operational gap between your current workforce skills and the technology coming down your industry pipeline?

@arkansasstatemedianetwork.com.

0:00 - The Role Reversal & System Transition
10:30 - Defining the System President & Campus Collaboration
22:00 - The Four-Year Transformation & The Power of Teams
30:00 - Catalyst Northeast Arkansas & The Regional Economic Boom
38:30 - Higher Education as a Private Good: Meeting Industry Needs
45:30 - Building AI Agents and Upskilling the Workforce

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:10

All right, welcome back to another episode of Built with a State, and we are switching things up today. My name is Heather Nelson, and I normally am on the A State Advantage show, but today I'm stepping into the interviewer seat so that I can interview the Built with a State host and new president of ASU system, Todd Shields.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Thank you for having me. Thanks for taking over the show. Yeah, taking over the show.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Yeah, we're just switching seats. And um, I almost did like a round of applause right there. Um it's still the news is still fresh, and this is the first time that we've actually seen each other in person since you got the big motion.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

So welcome back.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Yes, thank you. And it's just it's just great to be here in the studio and see you too. One of the reasons that we wanted to do this, and just to kind of give a sneak preview to all of you, we're doing uh an interview not just simply with President Shields, but we're also going to do one with interim chancellor Calvin White. And then we're also gonna record one with them together. And we thought this was important because it's kind of a reintroduction of sorts of the two of you to not only the ASMN community, but the Jonesboro community to Arkansas, higher ed, and all of that. And I know that seems strange to you. You've been in higher ed well over 35 years at this point.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Um, in in higher ed in Arkansas, but it's hard to believe it, yeah. Yeah. So you kind of looked at me strange when I said, How about we do like a reintroduction?

SPEAKER_00 1:38

And you No, exactly. But when I thought about it, you're exactly right.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Yeah, this is kind of and I think everybody wants to hear. I mean, I've had um employees of Arkansas State University that knew that we were going to be doing this that have been coming up to me and saying, Hey, these are some questions that I have. So I'm injecting it may surprise both of you guys. Um, in our interview later with uh with um Chancellor White, I bet he used to say in that.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

I know, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Sorry if I I stutter on that. But first, let me kind of give you the intro you deserve. Um no uh Jason Kelsey. I don't do the New Heights podcast um worthy intro, but um today's guest led Arkansas State University through four years of transformation. Can you believe you've been here four years?

SPEAKER_00 2:22

No, it's honestly it seems like a year and a half. I mean, it doesn't seem like four.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

It's just sped by. There's been over that four years, there's been enrollment growth, new colleges, new industries, and a new vision for what a regional university can mean to its community. Now, as the newly named president of the Arkansas State University system, you're gonna take what you've built here in Jonesboro and put it to work across the state. It's an honor and a privilege to get to sit here with you today.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

It's a privilege to be in that position too, and to be with you.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

You're very kind. So let's start with the transition.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Um, so you've spent four years building something that I think that whether you're in this community or you work for this university or even a student, people know that this university today, four years after your arrival, is much different. And um, I think that there was uh there's certainly been a little angst of, you know, losing losing you. Um and but so, and we're gonna talk about that because I want to that's kind of the pink elephant in the room too.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Um, because it's, you know, everybody loves uh Chancellor White, everybody loves you, but you know, change always makes people nervous. And you and him together have had such a great track record.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

Um so I think that there is a little nervousness over, you know, what's what's next for Arkansas State University. So I don't want to get ahead of ahead of us, but let's talk about kind of the transition. What does it feel like to you? And um what are your thoughts about now moving and leading the system?

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Right now it's a foot in both worlds. I'm passing things off and you know, changing calendars and getting in new emails and finding a place to live and that kind of thing. So I've got a foot in both worlds right now. Um, but then the transition itself is great. Um I've worked with these chancellors for four years. They're awesome. Um, worked at the system office for four years, they're fantastic. The board of trustees is really great. So um from top to bottom, it's just been fantastic in terms of like just the transition will be very smooth because we've got a lot of great people who are all pulling the same direction. And so it's gonna be pretty simple. Um, I mean, there's gonna be a learning curve for me, don't get me wrong. I I know that. Um, but uh in terms of support system around me, I've got a lot.

SPEAKER_02 4:46

Yeah. And just so everyone realizes, we are recording this um really a week before you officially take the take the helm.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Um, and so uh you really are in the throes of the transition of kind of, you know, one foot and one foot in each week.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Right. I looked at the calendar and I was going, oh my gosh, it's July. How'd that happen?

SPEAKER_02 5:06

I mean, they've already packed your office up. It's gone. The shelves are the shelves are empty.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

Um so I mean, how would you define? I think that sometimes there's confusion about the difference between a chancellor and a system president. So how would you define the system president role, especially for your vision for it?

SPEAKER_00 5:28

So I I think that the system president should be facilitator, backend support, um, creating collaboration, you know, working in the back really. I mean, the chancellor is really day-to-day um operations and in the middle of that, and uh particularly with external and the community and industry and that kind of thing. Um, but being right on campus, you're really in the midst of everything that's happening. Um, you know, the the system president, you know, Alan Sugg was the pre system president that I kind of knew the most and learned from the most. And you know, his his idea was that you're, you know, you're the person that they say, I see that guy everywhere, but I don't know who that is. And then that's what the role should be that you know, I'm making sure that these chancellors are doing great things. And when there's collaborations to making sure that they get them and opening doors for them and lobbying for them, advocating for them and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Um, and then ultimately the the system president is is making sure what the board, the governor-appointed board, is asking for the system to do. And so the board will have uh directions and they'll have things that they want, and then I'll help coordinate those down with the chancellors.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Yeah. So thinking of that is what is your vision for? So we have a system office. So ASU system is seven campuses. Um, there's an ASU system office based out of Little Rock. And so what is your vision for the system office and how it works with all of the various campuses?

SPEAKER_00 7:08

So I think, you know, maybe it's a poor analogy, but I think that the idea of like the system office is pouring jet fuel on what they're doing great. Um, and making sure that things are facilitated quickly. And, you know, if there's an opportunity, they help make that opportunity happen. Definitely providing guidance and making sure that things don't go off the rails or things don't go out of bounds, and making sure that the board of trustees' directives are being implemented and that their mandates of being implemented, make sure that the board of trustees knows what's going on. But then ultimately, really just, you know, it's a partner that you call on. Um, it's a colleague that you call on to say, hey, here's an issue. Um, or we find an issue or a problem or a opportunity and then we bring it to campuses and say, who wants to play in this? And then let's make it happen. So to me, it's, you know, we're we're not the pilot, but we're helping the planes fly longer and farther and have more impact.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Right. You have there one of the things that um there have been people who knew that I was gonna do this interview with you, and they've asked some questions, and I feel like one that I got asked, I'm gonna inject right here. So you're completely getting caught off guard. But one of the things I got asked is um they said President Shields has is so committed to communication, internal and external, and has really changed Arkansas State University for the better over his four years here with a kind of a commitment to, and by communication I mean transparency, I think is what they're they were meeting at. They know what's going on, they feel like they're they know more, um, they're aware of more, um, and there's more collaboration across the campus. And I think so. Their question is, how do how does he see transferring that to the system level and and do you? And and and a secondary question to that is you have had so many successes at this campus. What are some of the successes that you hope to take to the system level that you think do translate, that they they could be made system-wide, that that you want to share. You may have stuff that you don't want to talk about yet.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

But no, exactly. So I um I do everything as teams. I really don't do anything me. You know, my my approach is always that I see probably 25% of the world if I'm lucky. And then, you know, you're gonna see another 25%, and somebody else is gonna see another 25%. And I need to have all those people around me to even come close to seeing what's really going on. Um you know, and you know, even neuroscientists always tell us that we have the same thoughts that we had six months ago, and you're all in the same thing. And now with I think with technology, we're all in vacuum little silos of, you know, this is your information tube, and you're not getting out of this at all. This is what the information you get, and they get different information. So it's even more so now that we see very narrow slice of the world. We don't know all of the perspectives, and you got to have people around you to do that. And so to me, um, it did take some time when I first got here and asking the cabinet and asking deans and asking faculty to just, you know, tell me not just good things because I want to hear the bad things too. And I also want to hear when I'm doing it wrong. And sometimes that's not easy for people. Um they're all willing to tell me what I'm doing wrong now, and I'm really glad about that because that's usually two or three times a day. Um, and I appreciate when they do that because we can't get better if we don't hear where we're missing it. We just can't get better. Um, and I think that has been the success here is that really we've got a team that they all know their ideas matter. They all know they can throw an idea out, and if it's not gonna work, it's not gonna work, throw an idea out, it may be brilliant. And they all know they can challenge ideas and they can definitely tell me where I'm wrong, and it's just this communication. And we're also making sure that everybody knows what we're doing. I've always felt like even when I was um just starting as assistant professor, even if I didn't agree with where the campus was going, I always felt better if I knew why we were going this way.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Um, it was when I was in the dark that I was always very frustrated that like, where am I doing here? What am I why are we doing this? I have no idea. I mean, even if I disagreed with it, if I knew why, right, I could get on board or I could see where they're thinking.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

I think you've translated that really well into your leadership because that's what that's what it certainly what I hear and and was part of the question that I that I got that they were said you know, asking that is that you have elevated communication. And even even when they didn't agree with you, yeah, um, and not everybody's gonna agree with you all the time, right? They uh appreciated the fact that you were transparent in the process and what your thinking was and stuff. And so how do you how do you see that um that communication and your commitment to it elevating when you're talking about seven now seven campuses versus one campus and you know, kind of your vision for how they can collaborate together.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

So I see I see it really as just the teams expanded. Um so we've got more team members now. And which means there's more listening and more communicating. And even this morning actually came to mind that I just asked two of the other chancellors to take a look at something that I'm working on. And here's where I'm trying to go with it. Look at it and tell me if you think that I'm going the right direction or if this is not coming right, coming across the right. What have I missed? Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

Um, and you know, I told him, tell me where I'm wrong. I mean, so that for me, the team's expanding.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Um, and I feel like that's really important for the Arkansas State system because we have such unique campuses.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Um, there really isn't a among any of us, there isn't any uh real duplication. Every everyone fits a unique niche. And so when I look at and when we've talked to industry, right, they always talk about they have this continuum of workforce needs that they have, you know, from entry-level positions to mid-level positions to people doing advanced research on electric arc furnaces for to use the steel company as an example, right? Um, and so what I'm seeing is that when you look at healthcare or you look at agriculture or you look at manufacturing and steel, if you look at industry, or if you look at transportation, um, there's a niche and there's an area of expertise for every one of our campuses to help these industries fill those gaps. Um, you know, traditionally a higher education has said, well, we need a degree program in this. And we look at what higher learning commission says. These are the courses you have to have. Then higher learning commission comes in and they accredited the class or the degree program and say, okay, you're accredited. A student enters it, and then we say, okay, go. And then, but you know, those were, I think those are days of you know, 1990s. Yeah. Um, today we really need to sit down and talk to industry and say, okay, what are we missing here? And what do they need in the gaps here? And how do we fill that in? And sometimes we fill it in with them that they're coming in and filling it in, or sometimes we're teaching it or doing some research at their headquarters or at their mill or at their plant or wherever they're working.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

A beautiful kind of quilt collaboration.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Exactly, right. Yeah, I always I like to say it's it's collaboration, it's not a brochure, it's a real collaboration. Right. You know, you can see our scientists there working with their scientists and our people working with their people, our tax professors, our accounting professors working with their accountants and our students working with them and them working with us. I mean, it's a real partnership. Um, and I think that's a very different model than most campuses and most systems are playing, but it's one that I think that the ASU system is really poised and uniquely set to fill.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

You know, I you know, I really have the kind of like this phrase of like we we the ASU system can easily become the workforce and applied research engine for many, if not most, industries in Arkansas.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Yeah. Yeah, and I believe that too.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

I think I believe the I think working together we'll be able we'll be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

So, and you noted the fact that, which is so true with my own limited knowledge of of different university systems, that each of the seven does have such unique qualifiers.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

I do.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

And so can you speak to that? Because I know that you have spent a lot of time kind of uh even well before this opportunity of this role, right? Um, thinking about that and thinking about collaboration from the position of Arkansas State University wants to collaborate with the the other schools in the system. So can you kind of speak to if you want to highlight a couple of them or or all of them, like what do you see as the unique things that we really want to do?

SPEAKER_00 16:36

So if I start, if I start kind of in the top middle and then go around, then Mountain Home, you know, has a real niche area with boat manufacturing because they're right near the the lake up there, and they have a big niche with healthcare, um, which it fits right with that industry and then their community. Right. Um, and so then you move to like Newport has a great advanced manufacturing. Um, they have a lot of with energy and even with like um the the telephone poles and the energy poles that that are put together. Um, and then if you look at um BB has a great relationship with the Little Rock Air Force base, they have the only vet tech program in the state, which we're gonna really tie to the vet school here. Um, they have the only working farm um at a at a community college school and a little very large one at that. Um, they've got several other real strengths as well. If I move to Mid-South, I mean, they're the transportation hub. Um, you've got Google that's moving in there, you've got FedEx that's right there. You've got so you've got you've got lots of trucking that's going in through Memphis, and you've got the ferries that are going up and down the Mississippi, you've got Union Pacific and railroads, and you've got FedEx in the air. So you've got this mid major intermodal hub of transportation that's there, and there's lots of other industries around that.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

The engineering and Rdot, you know, when R Dot is when Director Wally was here, he was talking about like uh, you know, the growth in that direction around West Memphis for R Dot.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Yeah, West Memphis is changing as fast as Northeast Arkansas is changing. I mean, it's uh lots of industries that are moving there, um, lots of major opportunities to collaborate and work with um those industries there. I mean, they're they're in a great place. Um and then if you like look at three rivers, three rivers has a lot of different strengths. I mean, Saline County Workforce Development Center is something that I think most institutions would just die for. Um, you know, we've started the Crest Center here, and we're a little baby compared to the Saline County Workforce Center. I mean, it's fantastic. And so the industries that are down there are just really fortunate to have something there for them that that that is just literally in their backyard.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

And then if you go over to Henderson State, you've got really a premier aviation program. Um, another area that really focuses on healthcare and another area that focuses on teachers, um, which is also an A-state um strength. If you take the teachers from Henderson State and from A-State, you've got literally a network of teachers that are in every county, probably in every high school system, every K through 12 system in Arkansas. It's just a huge net of people that have come through one of those two institutions. Um, and that is an that is an area where we're really going to try to build on a lot as well. So from an education standpoint to agriculture, to energy, to manufacturing and steel to aviation, transportation, there's just a lot of strengths across these campuses.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Yeah. It's just it's just amazing to think about, you know, figuring out like pieces of a puzzle how all of them can work together and each can grow exponentially, potentially with you know, with the synergy that could that could be there if you're if you think differently. Right. You know, instead of thinking of them as being isolated in silos, thinking of them working together and the different ways they can work together, because you know, it's not just simply, well, only these two can work together.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

It's no work together this campus on one thing exists.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

This campus on a different thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

It really is a quick they can work where they want to, but then they're so unique too that they can all really work together, bring in different skill sets and different expertise to different projects.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Do you feel like the chancellors and the conversations that you've had so far, are they excited about um because you are a visionary. I mean, and you are known for that. So are are they are how are how are they receiving this this the vision that you see for the system?

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Um what are those conversations like if you define channels? No, yeah, and we've just had initial conversations really, but um, you know, I think that you know, would the way that I'll be able to help most is be able to walk into industries and say, hey, I've got this whole team of people. What are your gaps? And let us come back and tell you how we can fill them. Right. And then create those really big partnerships, and then I step out of the way and let the chancellors run the show because that's really what they should be doing. Um, and so that it's it is a different model than you know, higher education. You should, you know, build something and then say, let the people come.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

And now I'm saying, hey, let's go and see if there's a need. And then if there is a need, let's see how what we can pay, what can they pay? How do we work together on this as a true partnership? Um, that's a little bit different, but it's exciting because we all have worked together for years now, and we're all good friends. And um they know that I'm gonna be cheering them and applauding them the loudest.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Um, and so it's it's exciting.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Yeah, yeah. I love that. Okay, so we're gonna kind of look do a look back on. Know you absolutely hate this. I've known you 35 plus years, and I know you hate this, but you you do need to take a moment and think about the legacy here. You know, four years here, 30% enrollment growth, the Crest Center coming on board, the vet school, which is, you know, I mean, I don't think any anybody anticipated the the desire or the number of applications or I underestimated we knew the need, but knowing that response to as soon as the kind of floodgates opened, um, that was a great I got to sit down and talk with uh the dean and with uh now Chancellor White and about the vet school and the need for freshman to physician was another one that we didn't we knew there was a need, but we didn't really we underestimated how much there was a desire for that out there.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Um I will tell you this, and and this is being very sincere, very honest. I look at all of those as just results. Yeah um, those are outcomes that there could have been other outcomes. Um I'm not really I I'm not really as proud of one of those as I am saying, okay, when you get a group of people that are really smart working together toward one area and they're working hard toward one area and they're willing to applaud each other and not take the credit for it and not elbow each other out or anything like that, then those types of things are gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

They might not be what you expect four years ago. If you just said, Did you know these are the things? I would say no. I mean, I would say, Did you mean four years ago, did you have a vision for that and that? No, those are projects that I didn't know were even possible or I hadn't thought of them yet. But those are outcomes of what I think if you have a team that's really pulling together and that really is united on let's make sure something is good and let's make sure we facilitate it, then you're gonna have those types of outcomes happen right just naturally. So I'm most proud of the team because the team is what makes it happen. Yeah. If you've got a team that's not on the same page, if they're infighting or if somebody's trying to get credit more than somebody else or one up somebody or doing something like that, then those outcomes are not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Even if it's right in front of you as an opportunity, it's not gonna happen. Yeah. Um, so I'm most proud of the team because that's what produced all of that.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

Well, and that's a great uh that's a great segue into my next question because I really want to talk about um Chancellor White. And you guys have uh been together a long time at a previous institution and now here the last three years. Um I don't know if we want to say that I jokingly refer to you guys as well. Yeah, the Wonder Twin Powers activate, you know. Uh does it there's there's a there's a late 80s or 80s analogy that's that's right, but you guys are um you guys have whether it's you know, there's an argument to be made that it's natural, but also over time.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

We've worked together so long, we finish each other's sentences. I mean, it's kind of spooky.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Um like I, you know, yet you're so you guys are very different.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

We're very different.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

I mean, you're very similar in in certain ways, obviously, but but you guys are very different, but yet the synergy is just incredible.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that that's part of being, you know, it's it's kind I mean, I hate to use a sports analogy, but I keep talking about steam teams, but you know, in a team, everybody has a different role, right? And so um your lineman looks different than your wide receiver, and they're very different, but they've got to be synced in order to make a play work. And that's really where Calvin and I are, and we've worked together in so many different areas. We've gone through so many different types of situations, we've experienced so many things. It's kind of like, okay, we've experienced this before. Here's how we do it. Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

Um and a lot of ups and downs. I I think it should be fair to to somebody who doesn't. I mean, if you look at the last four years you hear and three years um with Calvin, I I think that actually we've worked together for probably 18 years. 18 at the last. Yeah. So I think that you know, there is a thought out there that a little rumbling I hear that you you guys do make it look a little easy. So sometimes, you know, I think it's important to say it's not easy that you guys have been through a lot of ups and downs and you guys a lot of trials and tribulations. And so not all of this is just, you know, you don't get to 30% enrollment growth and a new vet school or anything.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

That's after 15 failures, you know, that's after like 20 different tries that didn't work.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

And after, you know, 10 years of steady decline. So, you know, turning that around and being able to do that was a lot of hard work. And I think that gets lost sometimes because both of you have had such success the last several years. So, but what are you most um you are kind of you know teeing him up, so to speak, um, with uh you're leaving him a great legacy. And I know that you two are so aligned and it's what the future that you see for Arkansas State.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

I mean, the Arkansas State's in great hands. I mean, there's not gonna be any lapse of momentum because I'll go back to again, it was the team. Right. I mean, there's not a person on the cabinet or in the deans that don't have hadn't had a role in everything that we've done. Right. Um, there's nothing that you're gonna say to them, they're gonna go, we don't know what you're talking about. They're they know exactly what's going on. There's no gaps in the knowledge, right? There's no gaps, they know their role, they know what's happening. We're really just changing seats, is really what we're doing. So there's gonna be, I mean, honestly, it'll be a very smooth transition. Um, we're expanding the team, which may really create even more opportunities for everybody. Um, but this is gonna be an easy transition because I it's not I didn't go out and do something myself. I did things with a team. And so um, whether it's the development officers or student affairs or finance or academic affairs or the communication team, whatever it is, we've they've all been a part of it.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

And so they're all know what their roles are, they know what each one of them do, they know what I did, they were there with me. So um it's just easy.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Yeah. What are you most excited for him for Chancellor White? When you think about his him walking in 7-1 to his uh his potential long tenure here, what are what are you most excited for him? Oh, I'm excited because as a friend, if if I'm not just as a as a boss.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

As a friend, I'm super excited for him because you know I know he's gonna he's gonna do better than I did. He's gonna do, he's gonna take it further. He's gonna go even farther. And he's got a great support team around him who know exactly how to support and help and work and get things done. Um so I mean, a state's ready to explode because you know, he's gonna do fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

I do want to uh bring up Catalyst, Northeast Arkansas. That was also uh an initiative you approved.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

And it was another one of our team ideas, you know.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

Team idea, but uh but you you approved it and blessed it, and um and that was amazing because there've been nothing kind of quite like it up here.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

So the third one will be I remember the first one, right? The first one we were putting together and and a massive snowstorm hits, and we're thinking, okay, maybe there's a hundred people that are gonna show up now. And I just wanted to cry. Almost 600 people showed up, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:45

It was the most amazing miracle that I've ever witnessed.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Uh, risk their lives to count.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Like you really wanted to talk here about workforce development and uh and Arkansas State University and the I think that the region, the region is no the region sees it's at an inflection point.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

And the region talk talk about that because that's really the heart of the question is we we have 600 people show up in the middle of a uh winter storm and another you know six hundred and thirty less than a year. Like we held it because our original we had pushed, and so we held it, you know, nine month less than nine months later. So we had you know over, you know, even more people there in less than a year.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

And we're 1200 in a year, right? Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

And now, you know, we'll do the third one this November. But what what does it tell you about the the region and the community and the state? Because people are coming from across the state and the mid-south to come to attend. What does it tell you about um what the appetite is for something like this?

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Well, if you know, I mean, there have been more in industry investment billions in northeast Arkansas from you know Memphis up to the corner of Arkansas. There have been billions put in here, record numbers, more than any other place in the state. More than in Little Rock, or more than in Northwest Arkansas, or more than any other place. It's just been billions that have happened in the last like five years. Um, and so everybody's very you kind of be kind of be living in a cave to not realize like you've got international companies now that are putting in something, and oh, this mill's gonna cost four billion dollars, and this Google plant's gonna be six billion, or you know, this everybody's expanding and it's got you know something new coming in like every six months that's at that type of scale.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

And that's just massive, it's unprecedented. And so you've got other states, you've got people in state that are moving and looking at very lucrative careers, looking at trying to how do I how do I get into that business? Because it's something I might not know about, but look how it's booming. Um, and so the whole area is at an inflection point and they know that. Um, they don't necessarily know what it looks like, and they don't necessarily know what it's gonna feel like as it unfolds, but they can feel it. Um and you know, I think that they feel that they have isolated, been traditionally historically isolated of I take care of my city or take care of my county or I take care of my two counties or I take care of an area. Now they're seeing, oh, well, this is much bigger than that. This is this is regional wide. And it's you know, goes into Missouri and it goes into Tennessee and it goes down to South Arkansas. I mean, it is a it is a real regional type development. Um, and so when we held held that first catalyst conference, I think we just really tapped into everyone going, wow, this is really happening here. That's right. What does it mean for us? Right. How do we prepare for it? And what do we do? I mean, and that means everything from how do we prepare the energy for it? How do we prepare the roads for it? How do we prepare the infrastructure for it? What do we do with the influx of people that are working for it? What do we do with medical care for them? What do we do with education for them? How do we take care of all of this explosion that's going to be happening that is happening? Um, and so they were very hungry for that because it's then their life and they feel it and they look up and then there's this massive plant that holds 5,000 people in it. And you know, they've got their own medical center in there and education and everything else. And so um, these cities are kind of cities popping up in a sense. Um, and that's happening everywhere. And so we hit something because that was a real need, and that was a real something they really needed to know about and think about.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

Yeah. It really feels like even the heart of it was communication. Because to your point, you know, there's just one announcement after another up here about the another billion going in or another eight billion, you know, one day just like three months ago, it was an eight billion. And so I do think that there is um to some degree, I think that there is a um people kind of go deaf to it because it's just oh well, it's just another, you know, I know that seems shocking, but you know, it doesn't even register anymore how big that investment is and what how transformational that is for the region.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

And so I do think that there is a level of, you know, educating, just kind of like what we're doing with ASMN. It's it's going where's our audience, where's our target audience?

SPEAKER_01 34:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

And let's meet them where they are. Instead of beating our head against the wall, going, why aren't they, why aren't they excited about everything that's happening in Northeast Arkansas? Instead, let's, you know, create something and meet them where they are and and take that opportunity to educate them on and get them excited. And so I again I know that um I don't I don't want to give you another nickname, but I mean I do think that communication, there's a if there's a red strain through several of the initiatives that you have championed, it is they do tie all back to communication. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

And and it is communicating out to make sure people understand what it means. Right. Um, but then there's also communication across because there's so many things that happen in those catalyst meetings that, you know, people who are in a steel mill or people in an agricultural business or people who are working in energy field or communication field, they're coming together going, hey, I I need to know you. And we saw those kinds of relationships. Right in the room. Right in the room right before us. I mean, it's crazy. It was communicating out, but it was also bringing them together so that they can communicate and start working together too, because that and it kind of goes back to team again, because if they're working together, the lot more is going to get done than if they're just working in silos because that just doesn't exist anymore.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

That is, um, I don't know, we blame so much on COVID, but it does seem it that was probably one of the most jaw-dropping, is just the people in the room that especially when you knew their CV and what they were in charge of. And there should have you naturally thought like they know each other. I'm talking to they didn't know each other.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

No, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

And they were like, oh my gosh, I need to know them. And that's important.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

We we were talking to people who really shouldn't be talking to me. I mean, we're talking, you know, international people that, you know, headquarters around the world, and um, yeah, they shouldn't be talking to me, let alone not knowing the person sitting next to them who runs something similar. Right. Um, was, you know, yeah, we've got that's where universities, I feel like, can be a huge benefit because, you know, if if if somebody from another industry or a competitor tries to do something and say, let's get a group together and talk, right? I mean, there's a little bit of you know, hesitancy and there's a little bit of you're my competitor or you're in a different industry, you don't know what universities are uh the the central. We mean we're kind of switzerland in a sense of like if that's a great way to win. If you win, we win. Right, right. I mean, we're the one connector that's basically saying we don't have a boundary. It's not just Jonesboro, it's not just Paragold or it's not just Mississippi County, it's not just Mid South. It's it's it's we if you win, we all win. Right. Right. And if we help, if we win, so do you. You get the workforce pipeline and the training that you need um wherever it is, and then if you win, we do too. Um so in that sense, it makes higher education very unique.

SPEAKER_02 37:47

Um, because but also so powerful in the sense of if we do it, if you do it, if you do it right. I mean, I I think that when we go and sit with with industry and we say to them, what do you need?

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Right, their initial reaction is because that's not it's not what higher ed does.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

I mean, and how much crazy is that that nobody's ever asked them. I mean, I I guess that's the this shows my naiveness, but I'm just like that it's jaw-dropping that no one's ever asked them like what do you need?

SPEAKER_00 38:25

I'll put my hat, I'll put my professor hat on for a minute. You have to kick it off me as soon as I but you know, universities traditionally historically, even from Columbia and Cambridge in the 1500s, they were funded by the state and or by the federal government. And so they were state goods, they're public goods, right? And so, as a public good, you're doing theoretical research, you're doing research that may lead to the internet, right? Which physicists created really in World War II, and it didn't get commercialized till the 90s. But physicists are creating those things. The theoretical research that comes out later. Um, think of all the advances that happened when people were working on research when we're trying to go to the moon in the 60s, right? So that kind of thing is traditional public good. But we're moving increasingly toward we're got a one foot in the public good, we're another foot in we're a private good.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

And when on the private good side, that's when we need to go to places and say, what do you need? Because as a private good, we need to give the customer, we need a client. You're got 5,000 people who need upskilled, right? And these people need upskilled in this level, and these people need upskilled on a completely different level. They need this AI skills, these people need technical skills, or these people need welding skills, these people need healthcare skills because they've got a med center in the mill.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

Um, you know, we've got to go to them with this foot in private world, and that's really kind of new, right? I mean, that is that is not traditionally and historically what universities did. So it's it might be surprising that universities haven't done it, but it's new that we're not considered public good.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

So this new idea that, yeah, we're a private good too makes things, uh, our missions a little different.

SPEAKER_02 40:15

Right. And the student still is the is at the center of that because what the student wants is I want to come get a certification or a degree or multiple degrees, but my end goal is I want a job.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

And or a career.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

And then even beyond that, I'll say the change of chains now too, with with technology changing. It's not just I get a career. I need to keep upskilling or I'm gonna fall behind.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

And so yeah, do I have So your rest of your career? I need to have some location that's gonna keep upskilling me or I'll fall behind. Because now there's something new that's coming out every six months or or every month. Yeah. And you've got to keep up to date with it, or you'll fall behind with it.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

So in the old days, you thought about like how do we stay up, stay up to date and stay in contact with our alumni. But now we need to demonstrate to them that, hey, you want to stay with us because we're gonna continue to educate you along that continuum through the depth of your and breadth of your career.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

I mean, we talked about universities and higher education traditionally talked about lifelong learning as a real goal, and that is a real goal, but now we're really kind of going, okay, it's not just a goal, it's this is what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02 41:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

We're providing lifelong learning for you. Here's your path.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

Yeah, it's no longer just like a tagline. It's like this is this is this is our commitment.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

I mean, our student bodies now are K through 12. Um, they're the traditional 19 to 22 year olds, right? And then they're 22 to the time somebody retires. Yeah. Because that is the world we live in now and it's fundamentally changed.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

And that's what industry said part of what industry said to us was, you know, we need access to different new stuff that's out there, and we need to be able to send our workforce back to you, whether it's just for a certification or they want a promotion, so they need a a whole other degree. And so, you know, that was part of that kind of investigative work to ask them, you know, what do you, what do you need? What do you want? Right. But it I I want to kind of circle back because I do think that sometimes when you talk about that public-private kind of partnership and talk about that, I think people sometimes there's a little twinge maybe of, oh, well, what about the student? And I just kind of want to re-big emphasize that the big winner is a student. The big winner is a student because now they're graduating with exactly with the skills, not just the degree, but the skills that that employer wants to see and will hire.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Versus they can't get hired because they're missing something or there's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Or they or they get they get lipped over because somebody else has a skill they don't have and they didn't know they needed it. Right. Right. Um now we're making sure we know exactly what skills they need and that they get it while they're through while they're coming through courses down to the course level.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

I think that that's an interesting thing is, you know, to to go, you know, what kind of to ask those questions.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

What kind of some of the, I'll tell you, some of the biggest learning that happened to me was the freshman to physician program when we were partnering with our medical school to say, let's create the great, the best freshman to physician program. I mean, I managed a pre-med program for about 10 years. And what I thought was super necessary isn't. What I thought was really important isn't. And when you we really sat down with the medical school and said, Hey, what do you really need? Well, they went down into the curriculum of one class and said, This needs to be three weeks. We need to cover this, this, and this that you're not covering, right?

SPEAKER_01 43:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:45

And then this class here, we don't even need it. And I won't mention it, but it was a class I thought was central. I'm like, are you serious? You don't need that at all? No, we don't even really want you to have that in there. Can you take it out? Like, yeah, we can take it out. I always thought for 15 years that was a Central core course. Nope. Don't know where you got that idea. Um, okay, keep talking, tell us. But that's the communication that can happen, that we can make sure we changed everything from the curriculum all the way to the program to the skills and credentials that people need to get in order to really succeed when they get out.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

And nobody's nothing's wrong and nobody's bad, but things have just changed.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

I mean, naturally, and I think that's yeah, this is not meant to bash anybody. Absolutely not. I just think that, you know, if you think of you know, if you think of how the world has changed, I mean, the wor in the last even three or four years, I mean, oh, it was, you know, 2022, 2023, and you know, I first started hearing about AI. I first started getting involved in that, and I started hearing that, and then that's just reshaping everything. And yeah, I use it all the time and building agents.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

How many certifications do you have in AI?

SPEAKER_00 44:59

I I can say over 50, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 45:02

Over over 50.

SPEAKER_00 45:03

I mean, I'm I'm doing I'm I find it really fast. I mean, you know, we talk to our students about being curious. Right. We do. We talked always be curious, right? And and I'm fascinated by it. And it changes, it changes every week. Um, and there's new things coming out that I'm going, wow, look what that does. How do I use that? Um, and so yeah, I'll go through that and I want to learn it. Um, and in many ways, you know, I was in college and when I was 18, and I'm still in college working and learning. And that's really kind of the the new model, I think, for everybody, which is exciting. It's empowering and exciting.

SPEAKER_02 45:39

Do you think because I know that you have uh several AI initiatives for Arkansas State University that I'm that I know will continue. Do you see AI being transformational at the system level as well across, you know, well, you know me.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

I do, I do, but but everybody does it. You know, you know me. I'm gonna be, you know, saying, well, hey, why are you doing that way? Because I'll build you an agent that can do that for you, and then you can think more strategically, right?

SPEAKER_02 46:04

I I don't know if if everybody can fully appreciate the uh the system president's gonna be uh building agents for uh the different campuses and stuff. What do you think? But that does bring what do you think? Um what do people not know about you? What do you think that people don't know about you that that uh might be interesting? What's what's like a fun fact about Dr. Todd Shields?

SPEAKER_00 46:27

Like right about right now? Yeah, about yeah, about I don't know, maybe that's I would probably say that it it's the how far into AI that I've gone.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

I know they don't know that. That's why I'm asking.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

I mean I drove into that big time. You did.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

Um and I have and you dove the rest of us into the I pulled everybody into the pool.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

I mean, I build agents that run so many different things of my life. I mean, that runs my email, it gives me notifications. I've got agents that run my home and heating, and we're putting in agents that help us make sure that we've got students in a place we know where they are. And if everybody on the first and second floor, we can lower the heat and the air on the fourth floor so we can save some money that way. I mean, there's so many different applications where computers and automation can help you so you can think more strategically. I mean, I am not a person that believes, and my experiences is that AI does not replace people. It's like a hammer replace a person. No, a calculator doesn't replace a person. A computer does there they can help you, yeah, and they can really automate things so that I can think more strategically, but it can't replace the relationship. It can't replace the what people do.

SPEAKER_02 47:49

Do you what do you think that that's the biggest misnomer about AI is just the fact that there's that that overarching fear that it's gonna replace bodies.

SPEAKER_00 47:58

Sure. I I think that yeah, and it makes sense why people would think that. And you hear some news too, that like, well, these groups laid everybody off and replacing with agents. And you know, I think some tech companies did that early on, and I think that they were premature. I think that if you read things now, they're going, uh-oh. I think what um a study that came out from MIT recently was saying, hey, you get more return from upgrading the people you have to upskilling them to use AI than you do from just replacing them because there are gonna be problems and you have to tweak it, you have to work at it. It's like a tool. Um, and so it's you know, I do I think that, you know, Bizo said recently that he thinks that AI is gonna create even more jobs, and I think that that's probably true.

SPEAKER_01 48:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

Um, because it's gonna give people more ideas to think through what can I do and what do I help and think strategically rather than doing the routine work that you can hand off to a computer.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

Right.

SPEAKER_02 48:55

Yeah, it's uh it's amazing. Did you um, you know, there were so many um speakers, I guess, at commencements that uh got booed every time they they brought up um AI.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

Oh no, don't tell me that.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

No, they did. Yeah, several, several of them. Uh one one headline said that um one of them got like literally like booed off the stage. Like they didn't stop until they left. I you know, that could have been a mis that could have been a little bit of exaggeration.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

That'd be my nightmare. What do you think?

SPEAKER_02 49:23

What do you think is the uh university or the system? What do you think is the responsibility as far as, you know, PR in a sense or communication about AI in an age of a lot of misinformation?

SPEAKER_00 49:37

Education and communication again, because I mean, I do not think that, you know, I think that people are afraid of what they don't fully understand or know. Um, and so it's it's understanding what it actually can do, what it can't do, and what it what you do and what you don't do. Um, and it's understanding how it can help and what it can't do. And so you're not gonna be as afraid of it, you're gonna see it as a tool and that you can use it. Um, I don't think that it's something that people can be afraid of, but I I do think news media can probably sensationalize those types of things. But you know, that if you look really what's happening, I think that people are becoming upskilled and they're gonna be coming a lot more efficient. And for me personally, it's given me a lot more time to think strategically and do things that I want to do as opposed to things that are just churning through an email or churning through routines or going through a PowerPoint and making sure everything is lined up exactly right. I mean, those are things I hand off to agents.

SPEAKER_02 50:31

Yeah. That's that's amazing. It's been really fun to kind of catch up with you and also give you kind of a platform with which to kind of it's been great to give you the show.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

I love it that you're over there.

SPEAKER_02 50:46

Yeah, we're just just switch rolls. And it's gonna be fun, just to let everyone know, where there'll also be a show out that'll be um with President Shields and Chancellor White. And that's gonna be a lot of fun to see you two together. I think that'll that's important for everybody to see. And then um in a few weeks I'm gonna record just with uh with Chancellor White. So it's a little bit of a series that we're doing in three special episodes to um just to kind of like we said, reintroduce everybody to you guys.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

That's great.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

And hopefully we're asking some of the questions that are kind of burning in everybody's minds. I've saved some of them for you guys to do together, like you know, some of the pink elephants in the room, I guess. Some people, but so we'll do that. All right, Dr. Todd Shields, Chancellor, System President, and uh by his own account, still one of A State's strongest advocates and AI expert. If you uh not an expert, if you need learner. If you need uh if you're curious at all about AI, you should you should definitely talk to me. He will do that. He'll also have a pile of books he will recommend to you. And um every conversation he will start with. Well, did you run to that through AI to see how that works, Heather? So anyway, it's been a it's been a pure joy. Um Built with A State is produced by Arkansas State Media Network in partnership with podcastvideos.com. And you can go to astate.edu to learn more about Arkansas State University. And again, we so appreciate you tuning in to all of the shows that we have running on ASMN. Um we're excited by the feedback that we're getting. So thank you so much for tuning in and be sure to share it. Thanks.