Built With A-State
Hosted by Todd Shields, Built with A-State is the definitive tactical guide for industry leaders looking to partner with Arkansas State University. This series provides a transparent "user manual" for engagement, detailing everything from the CREST program to faculty collaboration models. By removing academic jargon, we simplify the process for organizations to access university resources and scale their regional impact.
Built With A-State
From Flagship to System: Dr. Todd Shields and Dr. Calvin White on Leading the Next Era
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Top-down mandates and command-central edicts rarely survive contact with the real world, especially in institutions where trust is the currency of progress. At a time when higher education faces shifting enrollment landscapes, athletic restructuring, and demand for immediate workforce alignment, organizations need stable continuity over constant, chaotic upheaval. Newly minted Arkansas State University System President Todd Shields and incoming Interim Chancellor Calvin White sit down to unpack their 18-year working relationship and explain how they plan to lead A-State through its next chapter.
We get into the mechanics of building an executive team that isn't afraid to push back, argue ideas, and test concepts through real-world pilots. The conversation highlights specific milestones like the "freshman to physician" program, the development of the CREST Center, and the strategic positioning of A-State as a workforce continuum and applied research engine for industries along the Mississippi River corridor. Their secret sauce relies on what Shields calls "deliberate dialogue"—a process that takes raw room chaos and channels it into an actionable, shared plan where every participant understands the "why" behind the final decision.
Leading a major university system requires navigating difficult internal workflow bottlenecks, recovering from a decade-long enrollment decline, and absorbing the inevitable failures that come with testing new initiatives. Viewers will walk away with a practical framework for shared governance, a blueprint for empowering frontline staff by asking "what would you do?", and a realistic look at how leaders can scale local organizational successes without forcing rigid solutions onto unique campus cultures.
If you care about organizational continuity, collaborative leadership, and building resilient teams from the ground up, you’ll get a lot from this. Make sure to subscribe to the channel and share this episode with a colleague or mentor who values practical leadership over theory. What is the biggest top-down mandate in your industry that needs to be replaced with open, shared dialogue? Let us know in the comments below.
@arkansasstatemedianetwork.com.
0:00 - The Role Reversal and Introductions
11:30 - An 18-Year Leadership Partnership
28:00 - Campus Legacies and Building Teams
38:00 - Strategic Communication Across the State
50:00 - What Lies Ahead for Chancellor White
1:01:00 - Unplugging, Burnout, and Final Thoughts
Thank you for joining us today for another episode of Built With a State by Todd Schilds. Um, but today uh we are flipping the script, so to speak, and um taking over his show so that I can all yours. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, hang on to your seats. Uh, who knows what I'll do. Um, but we're doing this because we thought that it would be great to sit down with both you, the newly minted President Shields, and our newly minted interim Chancellor White to kind of talk about the two of you, your history together, which is long and robust.
SPEAKER_00A little bit, just a little bit.
SPEAKER_04But we also want to talk about um what your visions are for Arkansas State University and for ASU system. And then we're lucky enough that I'm gonna get to sit down with each of them individually. And so we're really excited to kind of have these three episodes because, in a way, you know, my thought is it's a way to introduce reintroduce the two of you to not only the ASMN audience, but I'm but I think the community too, because uh you are both very well known in the community, but these are new roles. And so I think everybody is curious as far as what does the future hold? There's the the big pink elephant in the room of what changes, you know, what what what's happening? Um, we are a suspicious, we are suspicious people. So we're gonna try to inquiring minds want to know. So we're gonna try to address some of that today, too. But um, but first of all, I really want to um just applaud the fact that you, the two of you have had a long time partnership. You guys have worked together over 18 years together. Um, and um, I don't know that most everyone kind of knows the history of how long that you guys have actually worked together. And it really is um the synergy, you both are two very different leaders. I think you you both have you both are you're different people. You you don't lead identically. So we just did say a lot of similarities. But there are a lot of similarities, the differences, yeah, absolutely. But after 18 years, um, you guys, there's just a lot of natural synergy that you guys have both worked to build with each other. And so you guys kind of want to talk about um how you see that synergy transferring into these new roles that you're both stepping into.
SPEAKER_00Well, can I so yeah, go I'd like to start first by saying that, you know, we were talking about this the other day in the cabinet meeting. And so the chance with Todd, Doc Chills, um, you know, we he was doing the official handoff at at Cabinet. He said this would be my last cabinet meeting. And I think the thing that was struck me is when it was time for me to say something, I think the cabinet sit there and looked at me and said, okay, nothing much is gonna change here because we've been doing this together for three years here. Yeah, right. But the reality of it is that you know, you they know that Todd and I are two different people, the chancel and I are two different people. But the thought, the thought process is pretty much the same. Right. How we arrive at a solution or how we think about an issue or how we think about a problem is pretty much the same. Yeah. Um we hardly ever disagree. Hardly ever. And I mean, really, and that's really true. And I think some of that is because what most people don't realize is as a very junior uh college administrator, it was Todd who has always been actually my direct report and boss. Yeah. When I was program director, Todd was my boss. Well, colleagues. Oh yeah. But he was my direct report and boss, colleague. And he, and so he was there when I was making all those mistakes, and he was saying, don't do it that way, think about it this way. You made fewer than I did. And then when I was a when I was a department chair, and I was a department chair of a fairly large, complicated uh department and Todd was that, you know, he was still my boss and the dean. And so he helped me through that. And I think it was through the time spending as department chair, really, where I cut my teeth dealing with a department well over a hundred people, uh, from graduate students all the way down to faculty. Uh teaching classes, because everybody takes American history. Everybody, you know, from the distinguished professor to the assistant professor, I had to have those same conversations with them and treated everyone equitably and fair. And I think it was the what I did there that led to the promotion of him bringing me upstairs to serve as the associate dean. And so spending that time there, making some more mistakes and being able to be around him. So at that point, we're we've been working together for a long time.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And so grooming and kind of going through making mistakes together, making mistakes together, mentorship, um, saying, hey, we, you know, try it this way next time, or this. And so it was that success that we had there that led to the offer or him calling me one day and saying, Hey, you know, I really need someone on the same wavelength and pattern. And it's just continue to work. And so I really feel that although the name on the door may change and the face may change, I think people will be pleasantly surprised because the delivery may change a little bit, but the thought process is still there. Right.
SPEAKER_01He trained me the intentions and goals. I mean, we don't, we I feel like we're kind of just changing seats at the table.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01We're just we're still gonna be doing the same thing, but we're just sitting at different places in the relationship.
SPEAKER_04I think it's important for people to hear that though, because I think there's a natural, you know, we're human, people are human. And so there's a natural concern of of, as I mentioned earlier, kind of, you know, what changes under, you know, Chancellor White compared to Chancellor Shields, and you know, what changes at the system level. And to be honest, I think what people want to know from President Shields is what changes for Arkansas State at with you at the system level. And so, um, and I, you know, and I what I'm hoping that we do in this conversation is really peel back the curtain on where what you what your thoughts are and what your visions are, because I think that, you know, those are the questions that everybody wants to ask, but everybody's a little bit afraid to to to ask either one of you because, you know, then maybe that's they don't think it's proper or whatever.
SPEAKER_01And I think that is a great question.
SPEAKER_04What the two of you, the type of leaders that you are, you're more than happy to answer those questions. And so I think that it's great to kind of have this time together to say, you know, well, how do you how do you see the future for Arkshill State University and and for ASU camp, the ASU system?
SPEAKER_00I think for the for the interim being time being is some consistency. I think we have major initiatives where it's whether it's the College of Veterinary Medicine, enrollment, research. Um, we're dealing with some housing issues as a result of you know, increased enrollment, crest, our workforce development issue. Those things need attention. Um, you know, we all we are all going through this the landscape, changing landscape of athletics and what that means and its impact upon our campus. So there are plenty of things there that is going to require a lot of attention. And to be quite honest with you, I don't see any major new initiative down the pike coming. It's it's codifying, refining what we've already been doing, doubling down, trying to see is what we're doing working. We constantly talk about a policy or an initiative. It should be constantly going through reevaluation to make sure it's delivering the results that we want it to deliver. Right. And so we'll be doing a lot of that this year. Um, and so I think people may be pleasantly surprised of the consistency about there's not much new. We got a lot on the plate right now that we need to kind of continue. We've had a very successful three and four year run here, but those things now need a little refinement. They need a little attention to make sure they're producing what we want them to produce.
SPEAKER_01And there's now we have the problems we've prayed for.
SPEAKER_00Yes, we have the problems we've got.
SPEAKER_01That's a great way to look at it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so I don't see any new initiatives coming, yo, as in this interim period. I really don't. Well, it's I think it would be fool's folly as well. I think what we're doing has been working. I think building that relationship uh and continue it with the community will be important. Uh, I know that I have he, the chancellor did a really good job my first year. I was here of taking me and introducing me to many of the stakeholders, industry leaders, and things. But the reality of it is after about that first year as a provost, I got pulled internally. Yeah, to, yeah. And so we had some issues and some workflow issues that needed to be fixed. And so I've spent a lot of time internally and not externally. So re-emerging externally and and reintroducing myself and Vice Chancellor Erica Chudy has helped. And uh the boss here's helped do that a lot. So a lot of that time will be spent in doing that as well. But I think consistent and being consistent in some of the things that we're doing and continuity, I think is the word that I I'm using as we move forward for a while. We have a lot to take to deal with. It's a lot going on.
SPEAKER_01It's a lot going on. So, I mean, for me, it you know, I I say that the outcomes of Crest or the vet school or enrollment or industry partnerships, um, freshman to physician, those are just those are outcomes of a great team that you know, you get a great team together that feels like they can throw ideas out, and then we all decide that's a great idea or it's a terrible idea. And they know they can tell me that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, and I'll go, yeah, that really was. I take it back. Um, but you know, you get that together and everybody pulling and going on the stream, then there's gonna be results, there's gonna be outcomes. And I mean, if you just told me four years ago we'd have a freshman to physician program that was just probably the best that I can think of, I wouldn't have thought that. But those kind of things come out, I feel like when you have a great team. So at the system office, what I see is that we're just we're adding to the team. And we're adding to the number of possibilities that can happen. And and the the differences between all the institutions are so great that they each fit a different niche, they each fit a different spot. And so when we talk about workforce continuum, they all fit a different area. Um, and so in many ways, we talk to an industry and say they say we need these patches, these gaps filled, and somebody along this in our system can fill it.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01Um, and so you know, I I like to say that we're on the verge of becoming the workforce pipeline and applied research engine for most of the industries in Arkansas.
SPEAKER_04Right. And exciting times ahead for sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04For for both of you. I there's something that you guys talk about a lot privately that you don't talk enough about publicly.
SPEAKER_01We talk about it a lot privately.
SPEAKER_04Well, I I think I'm hopefully you're not gonna shoot me for this, but but you do, because we have had this conversation, the three of us, a lot privately. But but uh, but I've always said that you should talk about it more, which is you know, I my the highest compliment that I could that I ever give any leader over the course of you know my you know 40 years working has been that when I call them a unicorn. Because I there are great leaders out there that are great doers. There's great leaders out there that are great visionaries, but there's very few that kind of have a little bit of that beautiful combination of both that are both have you know the gift of vision, but also have a real doer attitude or a way to kind of figure out, as Calvin likes to say, he goes, Yeah, well, it's great that you thought that up, but how's it gonna work behind the scenes if I had a nickel?
SPEAKER_03Uh so great idea.
SPEAKER_04Never happened. Yeah, he only thought that was gonna take uh three weeks. I knew it was gonna take six months. Um, so the gift. Um, but but you both have those that um a balance of those qualities. And I've I've always believed that as long as I've known each of you. And but I you two have a belief system that part of what adds to that quality that I see is the fact that if you look at your the trajectory of each of your careers and higher ed is built differently. Let's just, you know, built with A. But it's built literally, higher ed is built differently as somebody who's coming in from the private sector and is very naive to it. I have so much to learn. Um, there is at every rung of the ladder, each of you have only skipped one. Like when you enter you entered the university workforce at the ground level. I just wanted to see. I was drawing that out to see how long could I make you sweat.
SPEAKER_01Got it.
SPEAKER_04Um, but you both entered at the ground floor, yeah, and now look at you at direct assistant president and chancellor respectfully. And but if you go back and teach your career, you only leapfrogged over one rung, yeah, so to speak, if you were to to characterize it that way. And that does make you unique as leaders because you understand everything you decide. Yep, you know how it impacts all the way down the food chain.
SPEAKER_01I would say that we made all the mistakes at every level. We learned. We learned we we learned the owl that hurt. I'm not doing that again. Um, we learned at every level what it is. And we since again experience it, we get it right from every level. Right. And that that is unique in that particularly in higher education today, it is unique. It is. Um, you don't often see that. I mean, and to do it in one state is even more unique. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um, one state, two systems. That's just very it's very different.
SPEAKER_01I mean, you don't see that very often. Um, but yeah, we I think that it we do talk about this a lot we do that we people we see people miss things that we wouldn't have missed because we know how that's gonna play out exactly.
SPEAKER_04Um six rungs down, that's gonna have a very negative impact.
SPEAKER_01That's gonna happen down there. And right we do see people make a mistake, you know.
SPEAKER_00I mean, or how a dean will receive something. Yeah, I'm very acutely aware, even though I never served as the dean, I was associate dean and serving as kind of level senior associate dean. But we did everything there, like I said, he like a team. We were getting everything like a team. And there would be times that, you know, for all practical purposes, you know, yeah, the dean Todd would be out of the way. And most of the time, they just didn't make they made their decisions. We made decisions. I say, you know, right. But I'm acutely aware of how if a decision that I make or or if I'm thinking about something, how a dean will receive it, right? Because I was hypersensitive to how things we used to say come from on high, yeah. Um, and how it was received in the in the dean's office, or even when I was a department chair, right? It's like how things are received coming from the dean's office to a department chair. And even the fights sometimes I picked as a department as a program director with the department chair. And I and when I walked in to the department chairmanship that day, I said, I was such an idiot as a program director. So I do understand how each one of those decisions land and impact and the delivery of them, how we can force change from the top. We this is something we talk about constantly. I can make an edict, we have the authority at times to go in and say, this is how it's going to be. That never works in higher ed. It doesn't last. It just doesn't last. You have to respect shared governance. You have to go out and and actually, we say if if we're gonna do something, my job, whether it's been department chair, associate dean, provost, is to stand before the people that I represent to be able to defend it and say, here it's why, and explain that why. Right. I have to be able to stand before faculty senate, and sometimes it's tough. I mean, because a staff and say, here's why. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Do you think that that quality is more important today where higher ed sits? Yes, yes, or or less important.
SPEAKER_01100% more important.
SPEAKER_04And and why can we share more?
SPEAKER_01It's trust, and it's also the fact that we just said we're rare to work all the ranks. So many people come in. If people come in from the political world, or they come in from the corporate world, or they come in from the military world, they come in from lots of places, and they don't have an academic background. And so the trust of like, well, they don't know what I'm going through, um, it's just not really there. And so you it's more important now, and you get so much more information from so many different sources that you have to build the community, the relationship, and the trust to be there. I mean, and you know, I always tell people, what do you which would you which do you do your best work in when you're getting ordered and told what to do? And the command central tells you mandate, and you just go, I don't know why we're doing this, but we're all supposed to go do it. Or do you do better when you have input? You can understand things, and even if you don't agree with it, you understand where they're going. And so, okay, this is where we're gonna go, right? Um, of course, you do better when people say, Hey, this is where we're gonna go. Do you agree? Oh, that's a good point. We shouldn't do that. Let's make sure we don't do that. And then you applaud people along the way. Everybody does better in that kind of environment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, building consensus is what we do. Yeah, you know, it's not sometimes we don't need the majority, but we want to make sure that I've heard everyone and everyone's had the opportunity to give feedback. And if it's relevant feedback and it's important things, we have blind science as well. And we always incorporate, I got a I got what's called an equity policy right now with faculty salaries that is going into effect in December. Uh, it's been the department chairs now are spending the summer looking at it, providing feedback because they'll be the ones who will implement it at the department level. It's been before the faculty senate, it's been before the dean's council. Now, I could have come in and authored that and put it in last year, but it would have it would have fallen flat. Yeah, right. Fallen flat. Right. And now the fact that I can sit and say every person who will touch this has had a chance to render feedback, and we've even incorporated some of their feedback when it was relevant. Faculty Senate, dean's council, chairs, uh, so everyone has had an opportunity to provide that feedback. Now, everyone may not like it, right? But that to me, that's shared governance. And typically, when when the boss and I see a college administrator getting into trouble, it's because they've usurped shared governance in some type of way. And listening, not listening, or just these edicts from on high. It doesn't mean that because you dislike it, we're not going to do it. But I need to be able to stand before you and defend it and tell you why the why and why we believe it's important, right? Why we believe it's beneficial. And if I can't do that, then I probably shouldn't be.
SPEAKER_01And so for me, that trust is and then plus, as you said too, monitoring things going forward. If you haven't gotten input from the beginning, you're not gonna get input as it goes forward. So you can't even continue to improve it.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_01Because they're not gonna say anything because you didn't even ask to begin with. Then you're not gonna how's it working? Fine. You know, or stretch of no or no response, right? I mean, you know, it reminds me when I interviewed Zach Moon, and he was talking about being on the floor in operations before he moved all the way up, makes him very unique because he knows exactly how it's gonna hit the floor, how it's gonna hit people there. I mean, that kind of thing is um invaluable experience. And and it and it wasn't the successes that taught me anything, it was the failures that I would absolutely you know that the failures were what made us go, okay, that didn't work. That hurt. I don't want to do that again. What'd I do wrong? Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that hurt. That didn't land right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_04I think that it's that that unique approach that both of you have that endears you to some degree with industry. And so, and with the community at large. And both of you have worked really hard to build trust within this community or that surrounds us here at Arkansas State University and with industry. And so talk a little bit about how you see that that moving on. Because, you know, as far as in your new roles, how how does that, how does that say the same? What what could industry and community see change and what'd be good? Because I think that's a really I think that and I think that that's a question on everybody's mind because they everybody just loves and respects both of you. And you know, to be honest, I think they're they're a little sad that they, you know, can't keep both of you. You know, they well they are.
SPEAKER_01That's the thing.
SPEAKER_04That Wonder Twin Power activate, you know.
SPEAKER_01I keep saying that they are keeping, we're just agency to the table. We are at the audience.
SPEAKER_04Explain that because I think that you you do both believe that and you that's your plan. And so I think explain that to the audience about how that what that looks like to them.
SPEAKER_01I mean, we talked three or four times a day. Usually it's before we just drop her off Monroe, and I say bye. Have a good day, Monroe.
SPEAKER_00You know, and we're on the phone this morning at 7 30. Yeah, we're on the phone this morning.
SPEAKER_01So now we were
SPEAKER_04still on the phone when he got to when he got to me.
SPEAKER_01When I got to her, you were still on the phone. And so yes. That won't stop. Yeah. I mean that's not we that's just how that's how we work. And we bounce ideas off each other because it's a we're we're just we're good sounding board and a good team and you got a good team you want to make sure that you keep that going. That's that's not going to change. I mean what what what will change is we add a new teams to teammates to the team. That's all um but uh you know a state is crucial to the system central to the system so many shared governance things happen from a state that it's it's central to what's happening at the system office too.
SPEAKER_00And so I'd probably be calling in more which you know and I think where where Todd shines I mean he's a great academic um there's nothing to prove if you just pull his vita you know and I'm 40 pages 40 pages CV. Yeah but you've written enough right but the reality of it is you know we're both professors at heart. I mean I tell everyone even if you even every communication is my signatory is Professor of History Provost and Executive Vice Chancellor. I am a professor. That's why I got into this and everything else led to this. But what I tell everyone where where Todd shines the absolute most is that public facing Todd has the ability to make anyone feel valued feel heard feel like they've known him for a million years and that is a charismatic quality that it's natural for it's just a gift very nice um it's one that it's it's ease it's a lot easier for him. I, you know, I'm a I'm an ex I am a situational extrovert I'm a thinker a lot and he is too but it just comes out a little differently. And so for me learning the community and so he's always been my bridge to the community. He's always been you know hey I want you to meet Calvin you know about you know he's a great guy. I want you to talk to him some of the partnerships that we've formulated with industry those won't fade away I actually think I know what my strengths are. And my strength is really dealing with that day-to-day grind. But I also understand too that a large part of it is community engagement, visiting a rotary, going to have conversations with corporate leaders, talking about industry partnerships, how can the university service you know industry's research and development arm but many of those conversations when that time permits we'll be still having together because it's so we will but I'll tell you he's a he's the best public speaker around I mean you don't want to go up to bat after Hank Aaron and you don't want to give us talk after Calvin.
SPEAKER_01I mean you don't want to do it that is that is so fair.
SPEAKER_04No notes I mean like literally he doesn't take he doesn't he just wings it's amazing it's amazing.
SPEAKER_01Again oh great yeah you know but and then and then in those you know the private one-on-one sayings he's hilarious you know he's he's he's one of the funniest guys that I know yeah I mean but he's also processing too like when we're when we're the when it's the three of us together with industry you or I may be asking the question but he's the one sitting there processing the answers going hey I think it's possible for us to do what they're saying.
SPEAKER_04And so that's been some of the crazy again. That's yeah but those have been some really fun meetings to be to to be in to watch you know how those strengths play out together. So I think that's great for everybody to know that you know that that kind of magic that you guys have together is going to continue.
SPEAKER_00It really will. Why would you you know I'm a you know I'm a sports guy and I played a lot of sports but the reality of it is why would you have a great quarterback wide receiver tandem and you don't have to break them up. Yeah yeah right it still works right yep yeah it's why would we do that? And so I'm not and because we've worked together for 18 years I'm not threatened by that I mean we say this a lot and maybe it's this is going to get me in trouble but we were talking about this the other day I was telling someone Todd's been my boss for a long time but Todd and I are like brothers. Yeah he's my family. Yeah yeah it just works. We we we you know we fight sometimes we're like Todd well we can't do that or are you crazy yeah but he's so why would we I mean I want the community understand that even though there'll be times that they'll be talking to me um he's always there and and don't be surprised if when I show up as you know interim chancellor that the system president will be tagging because that's what we've just done. It it works. Yeah it works.
SPEAKER_04Yep but there's a real strength in that so it it should not be perceived as weakness at all because it is it's about like if you're going into a game why would like you said why wouldn't you bring your whole A team absolutely we're stronger together.
SPEAKER_01Stronger absolutely so we'll look backwards a little bit and nobody hates this more than uh President Shields he hates when I use the word legacy oh God yeah I do but but you have I mean to to your credit you are uh you are definitely leaving this campus better than you found it so you know and it's worth uh taking a little bit of a uh victory tour even if it's just sitting here I I and I know how you feel about it but but you know take your flowers take the flowers take your flowers now but the when you think about 30% enrollment growth um when you think about the crest center you know is being built the indoor baseball facility under construction the vet school you know so close to being finished and I I know how you see that and I want you to speak to what you do it's true but that you but you you inherited you and you are the worst interrupter I hope everybody's paying attention to who's interrupting who right now so I'm the process but exactly but but seriously you inherited a decade worth of uh losing um momentum when it comes to enrollment it was just a a 10 year decline i mean there's no other way to there's no other way to say no place to go with up you just can't he can't the man cannot take a compliment he just it just he can't take a compliment but you do so you are handing off a much different campus than what you inherited but how do you I I know what your answer is going to be but not everybody else do does so so we what's your what's your proudest peep piece when you think about that the last four years the the team the team the team that did it and so the indoor facility we couldn't have done it without Mike Silva and Eric Shoty Erica Shudy and Jessica Blackburn and Calvin White and you know the freshman to physician we couldn't have done it with Calvin White and Shane Spites and Jennifer Jennifer Bolden um and you know vet school Mickey Latour and Heidi Bancy and Lynn Fry and the team the Russ Hanna financing the whole thing I mean everything you look at we like when it came to enrollment you mentioned enrollment right so we met weekly with with IT student affairs financial aid enrollment management the financial research um institutional research my miss anybody housing housing um everybody that had a touch anything with students we met every single week and and we came up with a plan and then we were like this didn't work this didn't work this didn't work that worked double down this worked I mean we just as a team did it right and so it'd be it'd be wrong of me to say I did that I didn't this group did right now I'm happy to say I love building teams and I know when great teams are working together great things happen. Like a freshman to physician comes out or a vet school comes out or an indoor baseball training facility comes out or an a steel partnership comes out industry partnership come out but don't don't happen without everybody on the team being excited about where they're going working hard about it and contributing where they contribute. Right. It doesn't happen.
SPEAKER_00And what he's not saying to you is I'm in most of all those meetings. Yeah he provides space where people feel comfortable that they can voice an opinion and so when when Todd's at the table although Todd's the chancellor people know that we see that we understand that but that fades away really fast. You're able to have the freedom to say you know I don't think we should do that. Yeah that's crazy. What are we doing here? And then I when I get there I like now we're rolling let's go he and he listens he he he produces an environment that allows for comfort and he produces an environment that says I would rather you go make a mistake that we can clean up than not try. Absolutely it's okay.
SPEAKER_04I've heard that he he has said that too that does drive me crazy.
SPEAKER_00Just don't go try go try and so that's unique. It's such a gift and people feel comfortable with that I you know at first they kind of look at us you know and it's like are you sure? And it's like so sometimes he has this thing and I actually employed it as well because I remember very vividly bringing some things to him and even when I was a department chair and I would talk to him through it and he would say okay but what would you do? And I would say okay I would do this this this and he said okay let's why don't you go try that that was a vote of confidence in me. That was a vote of go try that and you know what and time after time it's like okay I can do that. That was him standing me up and not really me even realizing it and then say I can actually ride this bike without even training wheels I do the same thing today. I'll have someone who will come in and say you know I'm struggling with this and I say okay but what would you do with it? And the person will inevitably say this this I said okay why don't we go try that yeah you're empowering that person yeah he has a unique ability to sit in a room with a lot of people and listen and actually listen to people and pull all that stuff together and then give some direction out of it. We call it deliberate dialogue. You know we take something what sometimes can be viewed as chaos and make it deliberate dialog turn it into deliberate dialogue and out of that deliberate deliberate dialogue becomes actionable in a plan where we say where the rubber meets the road. He's really good at that.
SPEAKER_04How do you see that skill set that he has um especially because you're gonna continue to report to him in a different fashion but how do you see that specific skill set because we can't get a straight answer out of him um helping him in the obviously I'm I'm in so much trouble but in his new role at at the system level how do you how do you see that being a being a positive because I mean it's it's one step up but it's it's a big step.
SPEAKER_00It's a big step but I think it's the same I think folks have to remember Todd's been in the state for over 30 years you know and he calls Arkansas home even though he wasn't born here but he's raised you know he and his wife you know I call her KJ but Karen you know they've they've made a home here. Both of their you know they're they raised their children here. So and he this is not the first time he's going into the play public facing he's had a even prior in our previous life he had a really public facing job. I mean he ran something that was you know in several different capacities. And so I think number one, the learning curve with many of the people that he needs to know or have those conversations with he already knows many of them and he'll get to know them. I think so dealing with the legislature I think many of them know him, have some type of concept of kind of how he works um even with the governor and the governor staff, those relationships are already there. Now that doesn't mean there don't want to be things that you know that he'll have to learn or nuance but relationship building will be cut short because of the 31 32 years that he's just been working in the state the Little Rock uh group dealing with some of the constituencies there I've just talked about that he's good at making people feel comfortable he's gonna thrive there uh or whether it's Little Rock whether it's Mountain Home supporting Chancellor Wallace or BB supporting Chancellor Methan or West Memphis supporting you know Chancellor West you know even right down the road you know uh supporting you know Ike he's gonna be good at that I think people will see very quickly how he comes in and oh it's he'll make you feel like you've known him for 30 years even though you just met him I think at the team level I think with the chancellors I see him potentially running the I don't want to speak for you but I know you know I'll you know he knows what I'm gonna do you know you know what I'll do but with the chancellors it's very much the same thing I think the chancellor will probably meet a lot more than a lot more develop team he just what are you doing working here can we duplicate that for you what what are you so you'll see that yeah and he'll quickly bill um he'll go into this I believe he'll go into the system office he'll listen for a while he'll evaluate for a while and he'll see where people are working and he'll he'll build a fantastic team there I've been telling some of the people there it's like you're gonna love him trust me when I tell you that um you're gonna enjoy working with him and you know and hitting the road with him and getting to know him and I said and I really believe that I wouldn't I'm not one I think both of you know I'm not one to say things I really don't believe but I really I'll say this and this this is I know he doesn't like it when I do this I had been in a place for 20 years and I had in my head I envisioned myself potentially was going to retire from that place. I would not have moved my family from that place to come here if it was not for him. That's how much I believe in the leadership I believe in how when he when he says you know what I got something we need to do I think you can help that's how much I believe in his leadership and that's how much I continue to believe that he's gonna make a huge difference at the system level I think what he's gonna do is take what has worked here and see where is it applicable that it can be work for other campuses but it won't be forced on him. He'll say you know what you know Chancellor I think this worked here. Well how do you think this would fit here you know Chancellor they're doing that well here could we duplicate that there that's the to me when you say the unicorn that's the unicorn that coalition building it is very much they'll have in they'll have ideas and things that have worked for them that other campuses and a state can build on how do you see that communication changing because one of the things um that that the three of us talk about all the time is communication communication communication and you know certainly um I've had the pleasure of getting to work on communication type things with the two of you for the last couple of years now and thinking of new ways and fresh ways that we can communicate internally externally um when you think about that communication and how much we can almost tie a red string you think about um ASMN or you think about even the Crest I mean that how much communication is partaking in that when you think about federal money, state money, the staff, the community industry when you think about industry partnerships and the communication that it has to go into to every one of those meetings.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_01So how do you see communication and your both of your commitments to it but how do you see that changing and shifting as you move we've got a the the first thing internally is that chancellors are not meeting regularly and having conversations and I'm thinking I'm wearing them a couple of them out already. But we're gonna have them call have them call us we'll we'll we'll we'll tell them about those 3 a.m uh phone calls. All right um yeah I I you know there they'll be we'll have regular meetings so that we're talking and we're learning and hearing and functioning and they're gonna love working with Calvin. They're gonna think he's just incredible the way he sees things like it can work this way, this way, this way this way don't do it that way. It'll never test him you know um he's fantastic at all that and they're gonna love working with him and then but but bringing them together so that we can actually work as a team to figure out what do we work together, how do we play and how do we become stronger all together those conversations haven't been happening um and so that'll be a quick easy change. And then I think that the chancellors with the system office making sure that those conversations are happening all the time too because those don't always happen the way they should and as easy as they should. And then the communication with the legislators and the governor's office I mean those need to happen as well because we need to make sure that our mission of educating you know students from the Delta and from Arkansas I know we that that we keep continue to lobby for that and make sure that that's a high priority. So I mean and but then I think things like catalyst where you're bringing industry together absolutely making sure that they're communicating and that we're telling people about what great things are happening at A State and Northeast Arkansas and then from Memphis all the way up to the corner of Arkansas Northeast corner I mean just making sure everybody knows what's going on and then making sure those business leaders are working together so because they're in their own silos too that they're not talking and universities are the ones that can bring them together to talk. And so expanding all that um even more so because now we've got the whole state covered.
SPEAKER_04I was just about I think that one of the things that is interesting when you talk to community and industry up here is how they um are blown away by the view that Northeast Arkansas is critical to the whole state and how that mindset has shifted yeah during the tenure of the two of you. Yeah. And that they see the area differently like we're critical to the whole state. It's not just simply uh a state's important to the region, but a state's important to the whole state.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_04It's not just simply that um regionalism, it's like whatever.
SPEAKER_01It's like for the defense of the nation this whole area is crucial.
SPEAKER_04But so a lot of that bools back to communicating that you know it was right there, you know, pockets of people knew that but it wasn't widely known. And so there's a better understanding across the state of hey whatever's going on up in northeast Arkansas or whatever's going on with a state that's pretty important to the rest of us. Maybe we should pay attention so you you both get so much credit for that because that's that's happened under your tenure is that respect. And so that is going to be fun to watch you know that same idea right that same perspective going throughout the system to go each campus has that same value to the whole state.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely and how do you how do you represent that how do you we communicate that you know we've you know we talk about this a lot in private you know he there's a barometer there that he's constantly saying are we moving too fast or are we doing this? Are we doing so we're constantly testing that temperature as well and I think with the communication strategy you know we call it cascading communication you know having to be repetitive with it and if the tree falls in the forest if no one hears it that did the tree fall yeah and so or who cares? Unfortunately when I first arrived, you know, that had the thing is northeast Arkansas was the best kept secret and we would start politely saying well that doesn't help us and here's why not in a patronizing way but saying here's why so I think we when we developed the communication strategy and we moved so fast and we started peering in you know regions uh where there was northwest Arkansas central Arkansas South Arkansas so quickly and Todd and I visiting and talking to people and really hammering down home base first, which was here, but then getting out you know we don't want it to seem self-promoting. And so we struggle with balancing that with self-comproducting but we've got to get out and tell the story. That's right. We have a great story to tell you know something as simple as I strike up a conversation with I live an hour away from the major interchange of you know transportation for the entire country. I have 55 running running north and south. I have 40 running east and west and I got the Mississippi River an hour away from my campus in FedEx Union Pacific billion dollar steel companies up and down the Mississippi no one knows that story. And so it's getting out telling that story and how the university plugs itself in and fits in and supplying a workforce for those businesses there. That's important. And when I say that most people look at me it's like I never thought about that. So yeah we got the Mississippi River 55 and 40 an hour from my campus. How do I leverage that and for the not only industry leaders applying workforce for them, but also how to how does it benefit the region? But I want to tell that story. Yep. I want to tell that story statewide. And I think some of the what took people aback a little bit is we actually had, we didn't have that fear of going into regions that other people had staked out and like this is ours. No, it's not. We hadn't told our story going wherever we want to go. We just hadn't told our story there. Right. And you would be surprised when we started visiting and telling our stories there and putting up billboards and running commercials. How many phone calls or emails we would get or you know, Facebook messages I would get say, you know, you're making me proud to be an alum. You'd be surprised at the alum we had. A lot of that.
SPEAKER_01A lot of that. And that's exactly what you want to hear because you're improving the value. Absolutely. Yes.
SPEAKER_04I don't think that people understand that a university has a commitment, an ongoing commitment to its graduates, to its alumni. The value of that degree has to be sustained.
SPEAKER_03Has to be.
SPEAKER_04And if not grown. And so I don't know that we ever talk about that enough, but you certainly see that. You see that in this community of alumni, because we've I've been standing with you when people have come up and said that and said, I'm proud to be an A-State alum today. Yeah. Because we had just done a presentation on something and they were like, I had no idea. And you're just, you know, but we even saw that in the in the classroom when you bring in, I'm gonna um have the opportunity to interview um uh Commissioner Halsey with the the Arkansas Highway Commission.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And when he was in class, we had students block us um multiple times. Arkansas they could they were like nobody, I I had no idea that this that somebody out there saw Northeast Arkansas this way 30 years into the future. And they were blown, they were blown away. And so just getting access to that communication, telling the story of the possibility, what's possible for the campus, for the region.
SPEAKER_00It matters, it matters something as simple as this podcast and our our channel. This matters, is taking our message to the state and to the region and it's proving that and talk talking about our story. Yeah, it proving that I talk about this a lot, that value proposition, proving that, taking it directly to the people, um, showing that, and you know, we talk about this a lot. There's there are people who will wear t-shirts and have branding for a different institution. They're not alumni, yeah, and they don't know anything about it. And they don't know anything about it. No, I want the same thing for Arkansas State. I want my alum to be proud and value that degree and and the time and the experience. But I'm also going after the average guy or or girl who says, you know what, if I, you know, that didn't present itself to me, but that that's probably where I would have actually attended if given that chance. So what we're trying to do is duplicate that um and show the value of that and show, no, there are two, you know, major research institutions in this state. And so, and I think because we spent so much time living in that world, that doesn't scare us because we have it all here. We just hadn't told the story. Yep.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. People just they don't know what they don't know. Correct. And there is that assumption that, you know, that the word's getting out. And I think that that is part of the legacy of both of both of you here will be that you you both made a decision of we're gonna figure out where our target market is and we're gonna go find them there. We're gonna we're gonna go to them. And that's true, whether you're talking about communication, even something drilling down to ASMN. This is this is a fresh way to get the word out. And so, and because our target market, future students, our donors, alumni, our industry, we have to we have to go where they're and they're they're in different places than right where we used to go try to find up.
SPEAKER_00You would be surprised at the communication meetings we have. We talk about multiple communication strategies, how we communicate with the state legislature and our policymakers and government leaders are very different than how we're communicating with the 15, 16, 17-year-old. We're meeting them in a different place. How we communicate with mom and dad, uh, who many times are gonna write checks and are gonna be very influential about where some of our future students will attend. So we have multiple communication strategies across a varied platforms where the social media. I have never been a social media guy. Never have been, never was.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you're a great writer and you write some great things on social media.
SPEAKER_00It was necessary. It really was. My staff kept saying, you've got to, you've got to get out there. There are a lot of people that and you'll be surprised. I I can tell you to a degree about what posts that I post or my team helps me come up with, or they actually help me do it. I'm I'm a boomer when it comes to that. But I can tell you what demographic is going to like it the most. Because I actually have about three or four different groups of people who follow that page. And I can say, this is going to resonate with this group of people. And I'm and they'll tell you I'm pretty much right because when we're communicating, there's certain crowds that we're communicating with. That's exactly right. And so we know that we have internal strategists who tell us that. Yeah. How we're communicating is important. It's extremely important.
SPEAKER_04So how do you feel, Chancellor White, as far as with what lies ahead for for you as as Chancellor? When do you, I mean, what are you most excited about? What are you are there, is there anything you're nervous about? But you know, 7-1 will be here and in a week from today. A week from today. One week from today. So, you know, what what are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_00I'm ex you know, I'm excited for a couple of different reasons. Number one, I'm excited to be able to step into a role and achieve a lifelong dream and actually do it with my partner. Yeah. Me too. That's special for me. Me too. And to know that I'm gonna be able to step into the role, get comfortable, and know that I have that support there. Yeah. A lot of times when we get to step into a role, that's not there. Typically, we have to go work for someone and and relocate to someone that you're building a relationship with. And if you're not supported in those roles, um, it could be detrimental. Yeah. So I it's not lost on me how special it is to be able to step into that role, but also to have a support structure and work and continue to work for a guy that I've been working for and working with for a long time. Um, I was telling someone the other day, they were running something by me, and I said, I can't do that. And they're like, Why? I said, Todd is still my boss. And we just laughed.
SPEAKER_01And he's like, You can't do that. That's so funny.
SPEAKER_00But Todd is still my boss. We can't do that.
SPEAKER_01It it's very rare that in I think higher ed where you're going into something and you know somebody's got your back. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04You know, you know somebody's thinking like if there's anything the two of you have taught me, you have taught me that. Yeah, that is that is it real and that's a that's a real sadness about it about higher ed. It is, which definitely adds to the unicorn status for the two of you, too. That's especially sorry to interrupt, but that is you definitely asked.
SPEAKER_01No, I mean that's something that I think that you know you know, even I want a state to know that um, you know, they've gone through chancellors pretty quickly, but in in many ways, they're getting a new chancellor, but they're not, they're getting somebody who's been right there with me the whole time and made all these decisions. We're on the same page all the time, and I'm gonna be right there with them too. So in many ways, we're shifting seats at the table, but we're still eating the same. Absolutely. Right. And that absolutely happened.
SPEAKER_04Well, and uh, Chancellor White, you um, if you don't mind sharing, I know that when you had uh a good word for the cabinet, the chancellor's cabinet, um, when you said, if you go home on 7-1 at five o'clock, you want to finish the rest of that story, what you what you said to him? Because I I I mean, that that choked me up.
SPEAKER_00That was if you go home at 7-1 at five o'clock, you should go home and your day-to-day should have gone exactly like it did the day before. The only thing that's different is I'm sitting in here and you know, Todd is sitting in Little Rock, but there's no major initiative changes. We're still working on the same initiative, you're still making the same phone calls, and the sun came up and it went down, and nothing changed. And guess what? We're still that's really where we are. That we have enough, we have enough on the table right now that will keep us busy, and we have enough in the pipeline. So there are things that that we have in the pipeline that are still yet to come that we'll be that people don't even know about.
SPEAKER_04People don't even know about so much in the population.
SPEAKER_00Yes, so much, yeah.
SPEAKER_04So plenty to feast on. The bank the banquet table is set and and overflowing.
SPEAKER_01Nothing changes, and Calvin can go, and that dude's called me six times already today.
SPEAKER_00But no, it's that's to me, that's how it feels, and being able to walk into this with a team. Yeah, team of people sitting at the table with the cabinet, knowing that cabinet, um, being able to walk in that room every Monday morning and see those familiar places, faces, and being able to sit in a just a different place, but go through they know what to do. They know what to do, they know what to do, they absolutely know what to do, and the people on campus know what to do. So and they'll tell us when we're wrong. Absolutely. And they'll tell us where we're right. We'll all make mistakes and we'll get up and I just came from a meeting. I just came from a meeting that advice channels told me I was wrong. And I was like, okay, take an advisement. We're gonna be a, you know, she's like, we can do this better. And I was like, you're right. Think we can. Yeah, that doesn't bother me. It's never and it can't bother me. I can't be a hypocrite. I he can't, he he has provided me that opportunity to be able to say, Ty, I just don't think this is right.
SPEAKER_01Or which she does all the time. And I usually go, dang, you're right.
SPEAKER_00But then I gotta turn around and give that leeway to other people too when they come in. We all have blind spots, or we're just not seeing things. And I'm acutely aware that campus community sometimes will say things to our deans and our vice chancellors that they won't say to me or the chancellor.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00And so I need to be able to process that feedback, accept it, and say, you know, that's a good thought there. So consistency. Um, I'm looking forward to meeting, getting out, talking uh to people. I think the biggest thing I'm looking forward to, Heather, is telling this community, telling the state about the good works that are going on here at our consultation.
SPEAKER_01Fantastic. I excited absolutely you get the best education for the best price, right? Right right here. Right here, right here.
SPEAKER_00Why would you go anywhere else? Because we have so much to offer you right here and getting out with a team. So you'll see us out in about it Yeah, I love it.
SPEAKER_04Um thoughts. I mean, is there there has to be some kind of twinge, a little bit of sadness to Oh, I am. I'm really sorry. Your office is already bought. I mean, they have man, they are like kicking you out.
SPEAKER_01Like there is not a there's not one book left on the just goes to show you like the team because they I mean they're not they're not worried about Calvin coming in.
SPEAKER_02They're like Yeah, they're kicking, they're kicking you out so they can get any more out there.
SPEAKER_01Like you should go down there early, right? Get down there fine.
SPEAKER_04Um what are you still doing here?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean it's um no, I I will miss the team a lot. Yeah, I mean, because this is a really high functioning, great team.
SPEAKER_04And you've worked really hard. I I I think I I know we've talked about this a lot, but I do want to say, I mean, you're known to be this phenomenal team builder. You've proven it again and again, you've certainly proven it here the last four years. And I think that that's got to be hard to you've spent all you've invested in all these people and you've built up this team and that you're gonna miss them. You leave them in great hands.
SPEAKER_01Not leaving, leaving, because I still keep telling myself I'm gonna see them all the time, which I will. But on a day-to-day today basis, I will miss seeing them absolutely because they're all so great. We've been through a lot, but yeah, and we've accomplished a lot together, so that I will absolutely miss them. There's no question. And that's how you build a great team, you care about them, right? So when you, you know, you don't see them every day, you'll miss them for sure. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04So road trip, right?
SPEAKER_01Right road trip, no, you know, we feel like Cal was gonna be like, this dude's called me six times, I don't miss him at all. Yeah, we road trip all the time. We got funny stories about our roads. We do have hilarious stories. When we go on road trips, weird stuff happens.
SPEAKER_00I'm telling you, oh my goodness. I'm like, Todd, can you pull over there? They got gizzards over there.
SPEAKER_05What? What?
SPEAKER_00I'm like, pull up. We got funny road trip stories. Oh, we got funny road trips. Yeah, I mean, being stuck in the truck together sometimes or or stranded, they shut down a whole concourse in Dallas coming back one time, and we were stuck, had no place to go. We did. And so, but no, we'll almost, you know, and the great thing about these two roles, the chancellor, I have to remember that there are six other people in a very familiar role and a similar role that I need to provide some space for them to get to develop a relationship with the president that I have. That's that's very thoughtful. It's I want them to get to know the guy that I already know. And so I gotta make room at that table for them to give, you know, for him to have some FaceTime. I want them to know the person I know. But he's always will be I want them to know you too. I do we'll that's a great that's a great thought too.
SPEAKER_01New team players, yeah, new team members. Yeah. Yep.
SPEAKER_04Um well I love the both of you so much. I mean, I'm not even gonna like be all like professional or whatever. You just having known the two of you for so long, and um no two people deserve the opportunities that you guys are both being given. Um, more than more than two. No, you have you guys have earned it, but I mean, you you just uh I I think the the thing that is the best though is that you I mean, not that either one of you would rest on your laurels, even though you both could, but that you both have this great vision. I don't think it is either. Yeah, somebody I get pulled aside all the time and they said, Are you worried about like burnout? Should we be worried about burnout? Or and I'm just like, you know what? You you need to you need to worry that you bridle either of them too much. If you bridle them, if you bridle them, they're gonna fry. If you you just need to let them let us run. And so I just send people the the movie secretariat, which I have quote overquoted for years, and I just say, let them, let them run their race and let them run. The great line in that movie is, you know, let her let him run. And I think that's true of both of you, that people need to let you both run. And I do think that uh the people that have knew that I was doing this and have said things to me about um about this. I think that there's equal parts out there of boy, they run fast. But I think that you've trained people now and people are like, what's next? I mean, I think there is anticipation in the air. We do talk about what's next. What's good, what's happening.
SPEAKER_01We do talk about all the time. Are we going too fast? Because we know we are very well aware that we can. I think that there, we we know we can run past yes. We know we can run fast.
SPEAKER_04I think that there are probably a fair amount of people out there that probably think that you both do, but I think that you have won over people that see what has come from the pace that you guys have put in action and the team that you built to to run at that pace. And I think that the overwhelming thought out there is what's next for both of these individuals and just wait. What's gonna what's coming around the bend?
SPEAKER_00So yeah, Heather, and I'll say this too. One of the most important members of our team is you don't hear her name a lot. Her name is Dr. Finn Yu. Yep, and she's institutional research. Yep. And so all Finn does for us is run projections about where we are really what this was brilliant.
SPEAKER_04I yes, you you both talk about her all the time.
SPEAKER_00Statistician and where we are, and so a lot of decision that we're making today is built upon projections that we're trying to hit four years or three years from now, and we gotta go now, or else we know that window won't be there in four years. So some of that is, I think sometimes people believe that that's just us pulling things out of. No, it's actually rooted. Yeah. Strategy and actually strategy and defend it with numbers. But no, I say this a lot. I'm gonna work. I love my job. It's a privilege every day to get up and come to work. And I know that there are a lot of people out there that that's not their norm. And I get that, I don't understand that. God bless me to get up and find my way and find what makes me click. And so every day I get up, it's that excitement. And it's the excitement that where we're on the phone at 6:45 and 6 o'clock and 7 talking about those things. And so when I get tired, when I get tired, Heather, I say this, and I was talking to uh Alyssa the other day, my administrative assistant. She's like, Yeah, whatever. But as when I'm done, I'm done. I'm gonna close that book. I'm gonna go to my ranch, and I'm totally will. It'd be on his tractor.
SPEAKER_04This is the second time I've interviewed in this room. He tells his story on the room. I'm done.
SPEAKER_01He will. I'm done.
SPEAKER_00When he unplug, he will. When I unplug, I'm going to unplug. And I'm going to go to the next stage of my life. Right. And, you know, as I said before, I tell that story all the time. My grandkids, you know, rumbling through my closet one day and said, Pop, I've never seen you in a suit. Yeah. It's previous life. But while I'm living this one, I'm going to live it to the fullest. And I'm going to make the biggest impact that I can. And if sometimes that means moving, then we got to move. Yeah. Because I got that waiting on me. And I'm when I slow down, I'm going to slow down. Yeah. You know, I tell him, I'm I'll put him on a tractor or a horse at some point. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I will pay all all the all the coin, all the coin in my accounts to see that. Please, Lord, let me be alive to see that. I I oh my goodness. I made all the coin.
SPEAKER_01All the coin. Um New Jersey's on the horse. Oh my god. Okay.
SPEAKER_04Okay. That's hysterical. Um, and then I just the visual of you sitting on the front porch and we're watching him. We're watching him run right now. Yeah. That is um that is fantastic. Well, I I know that we'll do more of these in in the future and talk more because I know both of you are committed to kind of sharing the stories and talking about different things in the future. And of course, um, we've got big plans to have a an ASMN show for uh for the new chancellor. And we're we'll figure out we'll figure out yeah, we'll figure out built with a state and how we do how we do something so we can keep uh we can keep President Shields behind the mic because you're I mean you're a natural, so the rest of us are just trying to keep up with you. But uh, but we need you know, I think this is this has proven to be a great format for us and a great opportunity. So I know that we'll we'll have you both in here again, but I do want to say that I'm really appreciative that you guys um thought of this idea and and did this together.
SPEAKER_01I think that um while again big shout out to Eric Howerton, it's a doing oh yeah. Was that catalyst?
SPEAKER_04And he was Eric Howerton will love the shout out. He would love the shout out.
SPEAKER_01Shout out to Eric because I was going when he was talking about what he was doing, I was listening there at a catalyst, right? And then I'm going, wow, we need that. Yeah. And then I'm going up and you ever worked for a university before? And looked at me like, no, I'm like, how about us? Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So you know, thanks, Eric. We haven't, uh it's a question I didn't uh I didn't get to. Yeah, great ASA grad. But you guys are both big believers in pilots, and that is something, you know. Test it out. I mean, I'm a big pilot person, and so I love that about both of you that you want to try things that way because I think it we all three believe in failure because we've had careers built on failure. And so I think that pilots are great places to fail. You fail faster and you fail in a safe place. And so um ASMN's been a uh 60-day to six-month pilot, however you want to look at it, 60 down 60 days on the data part of it.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_04But um, I think that's been uh really great for um all of us to test this and to see how it worked. And so just kudos to both of you on that.
SPEAKER_00But you know, going back to the academic in both of us, being academics is rooted in testing, testing discovery, innovation, and experimenting. What'd you learn? What'd you learn? Try it. That's the whole concept of research. You're testing an idea. That's right. And even in a failure, you receive certain data that actually helps.
SPEAKER_01It helps this didn't work because of this. This didn't work.
SPEAKER_04That's why you liked that book, The Startup J Card, because that you you saw that whole thing and you morph, and that that's what you saw.
SPEAKER_01This is what we do all absolutely.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, he's calling me up going entrepreneurship, or do this every day and higher end. What are you talking about? Like, you know, I got it. Yeah, I got it. All right. I'm gonna I'm gonna wrap up um President Todd Shields of the Arkansas State University system and interim chancellor Calvin White of Arkansas State University, a long partnership, a new chapter, and a shared belief in what this institution and the partner campuses uh can build and grow together.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04I think that's an important part. I actually have full-body chills when I think about all the things that you guys have done here together and to think about how that spreads across the system and how excited the other chancellors are and um and the fact that the way that you look at them as each of them is their own kind of unicorn. Each they are, they are each has the unique qualities and a unique offering um for the state of Arkansas. And so to watch that grow and develop and and get that word out is gonna be really exciting. Um, so this is Built with A State, not my show, but the outgoing Chancellor's show. Um, it's a production of Arkansas State Media Network, and we are so thrilled that you join us and that you are enjoying these shows. And we hope that you'll not only share this episode, but look for the episode that um President Shields and I did just with him. And then in a few weeks, I'll be recording one with incoming Chancellor White. And I hope that you'll look for that episode as well. And if you need information on Arkansas State University, please go to astate.edu. Thanks for joining us today.