Inside Tactacam: Trail Cameras, AI & The Future of Hunting

This week on the podcast, we sit down with Gregg from Tactacam and talk about where hunting technology is headed next — and honestly… it’s wild.

We dive deep into:
• The evolution of trail camera technology
• How AI could completely change hunting
• Tracking deer behavior and movement patterns
• Cellular cameras, security systems, and remote monitoring
• Predictive movement based on weather, time, temperature, and location
• The future of smart hunting systems
• Camera battery life, solar setups, and real-world use cases
• Western hunting vs Midwest hunting strategy

This conversation goes way beyond just trail cameras. It’s really about where technology, AI, and hunting are all headed over the next few years.

If you’re into whitetail hunting, western hunting, trail cameras, AI technology, or gear that actually gives you an edge — this episode is packed with great discussion.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

All right. Welcome back to another PRS podcast here with Greg Farrell of Tacticam. Did I get that right? You got it. Right on. Welcome. Welcome aboard, Greg. And I guess uh with that, let's give some introductions. Uh who you are. Obviously, I said who you who you who you're with. Uh let's let's dig into the details, man.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Yeah. Um appreciate you having me. Thank you. Um yeah, my name's Greg Farrell. Um, I'm the VP of brand um on the marketing side here at Tacticam Reveal. Um, been here for just over two years now, um, but had about a decade worth of experience in the outdoor hunt industry before I came here. Um, spent some time at First Light and then Meat Eater, um, kind of through the acquisition as that business grew. Um, and wore a lot of hats over there. Um, everything from, you know, marketing to brand development to your product, um, kind of touched a little bit of everything, kind of classic, small organization, growing fast, wear a lot of hats. Um, but yeah, it was it was super fun, right? I think I was like number seven or eight at that organization that started. And then when I left, you know, we were upwards of probably close to a hundred people. So saw a lot of change and growth there, learned a lot, um, had a ton of fun. Yeah. Um, and then yeah, shifted over to Tacticam about two years ago, and it's been all gas, no break since then.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

So man, that's also to be uh part of a couple growing organizations, right? Where it's just like wide open. Here we go. You know, as much as you can do. What uh so what sort of roles did you have when you when you were at uh First Light? Like like where did you come in versus where you know where did that evolve to?

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Yeah. So like I said, when I started there was super early on, I think it was like seven or eight. Um, and the way they hired people at the time is actually this the back I I'll try to give you the elevator version, but the way they hired people at the time was they brought people in for um essentially like three months. It was a three-month job. So it was June, July, and August. Um and really they used that as like an interview process almost. Um so believe it or not, I was actually teaching high school at the time. Um this job popped up and it was kind of like dream job for me, right? And applied, figured I was, you know, underqualified, overambitious, um, ended up getting the role. So finished my year of teaching, moved out to Ketchum, Idaho, started with First Light, um, worked there for three months, um, and I did kind of everything in that first three-month job they gave me. So I was answering some CS calls, uh doing a bit of sales, uh, doing a bit of marketing, doing a bit of product, kind of a little bit of everything. Um, and to their credit, it was really cool. Like when I started there, I sat down with um, you know, my boss at the time, and he's like, Hey, like what Blue Sky, what do you want to do here?

SPEAKER_01 3:02

That's cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Yeah. So um had that conversation early on, and then yeah, at the end of that three months, they offered me a job and I actually moved over into the product team full time um at that point. So I was number two in the product team there.

SPEAKER_03 3:15

When oh my gosh. I mean, and first light came a long way there. All right, we're gonna take a brief break in the show to give a shout out to one of the PRS partners that helps put this on. Warn Mounts, official rings and mounts of the PRS, PRS Rimfire, makers of all the equipment to mount your optic to your precision rifle. One piece mounts, scope rings, MSR AR mounts, bases. They have everything you're looking for. Go check them out. Warnscope mounts.com. So uh were you still a teacher? I mean, or did you like in June you were like, yeah, I I'm putting this behind me forever, or like, well, we'll see how the summer goes.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

No, so it's just a little wild now that you like have me recap this. Um It was really interesting. So they offered me the job, I think in like August, the official job, right? And um, I had already signed my teaching contract for the previous year, because the way it works, you sign your contract the year going into it. Um, and I remember sitting down with the owners of First Light at the time. They were the owners and founders, Scott and Kenton. And I said, Hey, here's the deal. I said, this is my dream job. Like, I will do whatever I need to do to make this happen. I was like, full disclosure, I want to let you guys know. Like, I signed my teaching contract for next year already, and I'm willing to nullify that. But, you know, I just want to have the conversation with you guys and kind of let you know the situation I'm in. And they were incredible about they're like, hey, here's the deal, man. Like, you can do everything that we need you to do for the next nine months remote. Like, why don't you move back to Wisconsin? If you're willing to essentially work two full-time jobs, like do your year of teaching you committed to and then move back out here, right? Come next June when your year's over. So for that first year that I worked for First Light, I was basically yeah. So I'd you know, get up at four in the morning, I'd do everything I could before the school day started, teach, and then spend my evenings kind of finishing up what I couldn't do during the day. Um for nine months, move back out to Idaho um and started with them, you know, officially full time, kind of after that year was over.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

That's wild. That's wild. Good for you though. I mean, that uh if I mean being able to identify like, hey, this this is really what I want to do, and like nine months of time, I mean it it flies by, especially when you're busy. Totally. It flies by so fast. Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

So so I I see you have some Packer stuff in the background, a couple Wisconsin license plates. Where in Wisconsin did you live?

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Yeah, so I grew up in Appleton, um, born and raised there, and then um moved down to Milwaukee. Um, I did a year at Marquette, then I transferred to Lacrosse. Um I did finished in my undergrad there, and then I joke, but it's like a hundred percent true. Like I went to grad school in lacrosse so that I could stay there and continue to hunt because oh, no joke. I got a taste of those western Wisconsin whitetails, and I was just I was eaten up with them. So uh did grad school lacrosse as well. Um, and then ended up moving down to the southern part of the state, like Lake Geneva area.

SPEAKER_03 6:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Teaching, um, yeah, and then out to Idaho.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

So dude, yeah, yeah. How was the how was the hunting? Uh uh well, that's it's I'm gonna ask that question. Where are you now?

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Uh I'm in Billings, Montana now.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

Yeah, heck yeah. Yeah, heck yeah. A little different hunting, right? But so good.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Yeah, I haven't, full disclosure. Uh, we moved out here end of October, so it's been about five months. I haven't actually had a hunting season here yet just because I was a non-resident until now. But I'm excited because like I lived in Idaho for almost five years. Um, when I started at First Light, I ended my tenure there as a remote employee. Um, eventually at First Light, I was tasked with developing their entire Whitetail product line and the brand, the Whitetail brand side. So that's kind of how I ended my tenure there. Um, and during that time, I actually moved back to Wisconsin and worked remotely because it's like, hey, if we're gonna build an authentic whitetail program, we need it to be in a place where there's white tails, right? And yeah, uh, South Central Idaho is not the best place. Um, so I got kind of a taste of the West when I moved out there, you know, elk, mule deer, antelope, bear, everything. Um, but they didn't have whitetails, right? And that was tough for me because like that's my bread and butter. Um, but the cool thing about here is like you have all those things, plus you have white tails, so it's kind of a win-win pretty much.

SPEAKER_03 7:42

Montana. Yeah. Oh, man. So I've only I've only been on a couple non-Midwest hunts, I'll call them, right? And and and you know what I'm talking about here. Like hunting here in Wisconsin or in Michigan where I grew up, this isn't the same as what it is out west. And you know, I've been out uh like well that deer was the first I think that was the first deer that I've shot outside of outside of the Midwest. And I came from Co Kodiak Island, Alaska. I was on a pinch with or on a hunt with John Pinch, um, who was a first light guy too, I believe. Um and and that I mean that like the you know, the the spotting, glassing, whatever, and then you know, finding an approach and engaging and you know and trying to get yourself in the right position or whatever. Like I just I am so bored with Midwest hunts now, you know. Uh what what is your experience? So you you've hunted you've probably hunted the box blind in Wisconsin, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

It's so funny. So obviously growing up in the Midwest and you know, cutting my teeth on whitales and turkeys, I think we all have this like glorified kind of picture of what hunting the West is, right? Because it's this thing that we were never we had no experience in, right? So when I like once I kind of graduated college and started to, you know, try and be an adult, if you will, it's like I always had my sight set on the West for that reason. It was like big mountains, lots of places to roam, explore, you know, this elk and deer and antelope, like game that I haven't chased before. And I, you know, got out there and man, it was like everything I hoped it would be, right? But what was really interesting for me is almost exclusively then for like four years, I just switched, right? Like I didn't sit in a tree stand for almost four years. It was just you know chasing western critters, and it got to the point for me where it's like as much as I loved that, I missed the I missed whitetail hunting so much because yes, it's not maybe as physical, right? But the mental chess game of it was just something that I was like so addicted to. And I was the weird guy in the office, right? Because like I would leave during the best time of the mule deer rut, right? Or the end of elk season to like go chase whitales in the Midwest. And everybody in that office thought I was like, there's something wrong with me, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Um, I don't know. I've tried to find a balance now, right? It's like I think they're both great for different reasons. I love both of them. I definitely still do more whitetail hunting than I think western hunting. Um for whatever reason it's it's the thing that just makes me tick. But man, it's it's nice to balance them out, right? It's fun to do both.

SPEAKER_03 10:22

It is different, man. And yeah, and it is a chess game, and I guess that's a I mean, that's a great introduction and you know to to what Tacticam is, right? Because that is that is a part of the chess cam, right? Knowing where the deer are or whatever it is you're hunting, right? Knowing, starting to understand their their routines, kind of when and where they're gonna be and doing different things, right? And then and then the rut happens and like all bets are off, right? And like a deer you've never even seen before, you know, is starting to come by on camera in the daylight, you know, and you're at work. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

That's the pros and cons of having a cellular trail camera. You know he's there when you're not, right?

SPEAKER_03 11:00

Yeah, 100%. 100%. So let's talk, let's let's get into Tacticab. So um, let's go back to its DNA and where it started and and all of those things. And like because it's been a i from from my understanding, there's a pretty good shift in in the direction of the company and all that. So uh I guess give me give me that.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Yeah, I'll give you the the origin story. Um, so initially, Tactium was started as a point of view camera, right? So it was the camera that attached to you could attach it to your stabilizer on your bow, your rifle. Um, they made attachments where you could actually attach it to the scope of your rifle, your shotgun, etc. Right. So essentially what it was is, you know, the easiest way to describe it is it was like the GoPro for outdoors or for hunters, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Where it stemmed from is one of our founders and owners actually he went to UW Cross as well. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, his his degree. And uh he tells the story so much better than I can, but not that long after he had graduated, he killed a pretty good buck on, I think it was his grandparents' land somewhere near and around lacrosse.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

And he went to his grandpa and was telling him the story about this, and his grandpa kind of gave him a hard time. He's like, Hey, didn't you just graduate with like a degree in photography? Like, you don't have this on camera, right? Like, that's what you went to college for. And it kind of clicked for him where he's like, Yeah, that's true. Like, there is kind of this this disconnect between people that want to maybe capture these memories, but aren't so into it, like I, you know, like I went to school for. So, how can we make filming a hunt or capturing a memory like really approachable to just the common person where literally all you have to do is press a button and the thing is on, right? Yeah, so that was like the origin story of Tacticam, right? And a couple other founders came together um and they built the original tacticams, and that product took off like wildfire great. Um, and that was around for about four or five years, and it was during that time where that original product was kind of growing in popularity that cellular trail cameras started to become a thing. And our founders, you know, essentially, much like every other origin story in the outdoor space, like identified a problem. They're like, hey, you know, these cellular trail cameras that we have, they're either a like six to eight hundred dollars, they were super expensive at the time ones, right? Or they're really cheap and they suck.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

And their whole thesis was like, we've figured out this really small form factor camera, right? It takes great pictures, it takes great video. Essentially, like, you know, and they asked the question probably in a somewhat naive way for them, but like we have half of this figured out, like can we make this thing and apply it to this other form factor? And turns out like good, right? Yeah, and they figured out a way to make a really, really high-end cellular trail camera that was a fraction of the price of what else was on the market, so much so that I think a lot of people when the camera actually launched, like, there's no way this thing can be good, right? But then fans of people and it was good, and it just took off like wildfire, right? And like, yeah, I think from basically from then on, like they very quickly became the market leader in the space, and we've continued to evolve and innovate, right? And like those were the gen ones we're releasing new cameras this year, right? Which will be the Gen 4s. So as you can imagine for the last five or six years now, right? Like, is we've just continued to grow and develop new products and innovate, um, and truly try and continue to be a leader in the space.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

Yeah, and the and the camera technology has over that time span too, has just gone crazy. I mean, uh, to think what your you know, what your smartphone can do and the pictures it can take, it's just wild. Like, you know, so being able to to and I I happen to have uh Ultra here, like you guys full disclosure, you guys sent me this. Um, we've actually used it for a couple unique things. Uh where we've we've set them up just downrange at a couple matches and had it taking pictures and share those pictures with the shooters and everybody there. Um if you if anybody's listening wants to see those photos, the box canyon suppressor only matches where we we uh I set that thing up to take a picture, I think, every two seconds, you know, if if under motion. Yeah, it turned into like 5,000 pictures across two days. So they're all time stamped though, so if you know about when you know the shooter knows about what time they shot, you can find it. Um but yeah, excellent, excellent photos that it takes. And and having that point of view, which is uh at least in our shooting world, is just different, right? Like, no, you don't you never see anything from just downrange, you know, looking back. So it's pretty cool. Um let's talk, I guess, product development and whatnot. Like what's what else is in the in the mix? Because like it's a pretty hard pivot, right, to go from an action camera, I would call it, right? To to trail count camera. And obviously, you know, the the the folks that founded the company, they really understood the potential opportunity there, the business growth opportunity. Um what uh what else, you know, as much as you can say, I mean, what are the things that you guys kind of working on or directions you're going? And maybe I'll talk about security stuff too.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Yeah, for sure. So you you brought up a really good point earlier, right? You're talking about camera technology and how much that's evolved. And I think for me, that was one of the most exciting parts about coming on here, right? Because I came from a world of, you know, some soft goods, some hybrid goods, a little bit of hard goods, but not a ton. And if you look at that sector of the outdoor space, right, like typically innovation is limited by material innovation. Right. So material innovation at this point, right, doesn't move super fast. You don't see these giant leaps and bounds in whether it's insulations or mining fabrics or even down to the textile level. Like, yes, there's improvements every year, but it's not these like you know, astronomical leaps.

SPEAKER_03 17:15

Yeah, 30 or 40 years ago when Gore-Tex came out, and it's like, whoa, whoa, this is incredible. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

But on our side of the business, it's almost the opposite, right? Because we're so heavily technology based, and the technology we use is not specific to just our sector, right? So to your point, you have Apple developing cameras for iPhones, right? You have Microsoft developing chips, you have you know, XYZ, and all of these innovations are happening in parallel to what we're doing in our space. And a lot of times we become the benefactor of some of those innovations, right? And what we've done is we've put a ton of effort and time into building an internal engineering team, you know, 100 plus strong. So we have a very strong internal engineering base paired with you know parallel innovation, innovation that's going on. And essentially you end up with this situation where like the world is really our oyster, right? Oh, it is what we've tried to do, we've tried to focus on is while we could do anything, what actually matters to the customer, right? So we have you know 200 plus customer service agents at this organization that talk to almost every single one of our customers every single year, right? So we have this great feedback loop of what customers want, what matters to them, what actually moves the needle for them, right? And that's really how we've tried to innovate and really devote resources to how a product is going to change over time. So you know, that being said, like, you know, when we release a new camera, 90% of the things that change in that camera, it's either something we identified because you know, most of the people here are hunters, right? So they need the product, or it's something our customers told us they wanted. Um, so that leads a lot of product innovation, right? And a lot of those things, like it's no secret, right? It's like you could probably figure this out without any talking to me. It's like, what if people want a cellular trail camera? They want really good quality pictures, they want really good quality video, they want to make sure it connects to cellular, right? Regardless of where they are, and they want to make sure the battery lasts a long time because the whole beauty of a cellular trail camera is you don't have to go to it to get the photos, it comes to your phone, right? So if you don't have to go to the camera, other than if the battery dies, the battery really becomes the limiting factor, right? So those are the types of things where it's like that's where we put this, you know, gigantic engineering team that we have to work. That's where we lean on you know partner organizations developing parallel technology, right? And we can really suck a lot of that into our ecosystem.

SPEAKER_03 19:48

Mm-hmm. Man, yeah. And you know, thinking like whitetail hunting again, like the longer you can just let that camera sit without touching it, right? Like so that you're not out there influencing anything or pushing, you know, pushing deer out or leaving your scent and that type of thing, like the better, right? You know, so but you can't, I mean, you can't put you can't put like a hundred thousand MAH lithium battery on a thing and still make it affordable. You know? So what uh we're talking solar panels, you know, big lithium batteries, that type of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Yeah, I mean, there's always the add-on accessories, right? Like external power is something we focus a lot on. So, you know, we have um uh we have a 5,000 milliamp hour lithium battery that will outperform, you know, double any double A's you can buy off the shelf. So that's kind of your first step, right? Yep. Your second step, if you want to go beyond that, is kind of use case dependent. Like if you're out in the open or you have an area where you get some sunlight, you can add a solar panel to that. The cool thing about our solar panels is they actually have their own 5,000 milliamp hour lithium battery inside of it.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

So essentially Yeah, exactly. So you're at a 10,000 milliamp hour battery bank, and our solar panel actually communicates with our camera. So it knows if the internal battery is dead, if it's full, kind of what that percentage is. So it'll always optimize for the camera usage, right? So it's like that internal battery is full, it'll charge its own battery first, right? So that you essentially build that bank up. If that internal battery is empty, it'll charge that and then recharge itself. So you kind of have this smart system that talks to itself. So it kind of essentially creates the most optimal environment for running the camera. Um, but sometimes, like if you're in deep dark timber, you might not get enough sunlight to make that worth it. So we've also developed products like uh we call it the battery belt. So essentially it's a 10,000 milliamp hour battery that you can wrap around a tree. So you don't have this big battery sitting at the bottom of the tree that you're running wires up to, right? And you can just build up your bank so it lasts longer. Yeah. But beyond those external power sources, the other thing that we've really focused a ton of our end about. On is like, how do you actually just make the camera more efficient? Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Sure. Yeah. Um use less energy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Yeah, exactly. Right. And like we kind of joke about this internally, but it's 100% true. Like, we went out and hired an engineer who used to design power systems for rockets, right? Like that's the guy that's now developing the power systems for our cameras. And it's like, okay, if you can design a power system for a rocket, like you understand how to make a camera that goes on a tree run efficiently, right? So instead of just always trying to figure out how do we, you know, I don't want to say like put newspaper on spilled milk with an external power source. It's like, how do you pair that external power source or internal with a super efficient camera to provide the best product to the customer?

SPEAKER_03 22:42

Right. Dude, I I want to say that camera that we set up at Box Canyon took photos from like 8 a.m. to probably 3 30, 4 o'clock in the afternoon for two days. Um, like I said, a couple thousand photos a day. And I want to say the battery is still like 80%.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

Like like it was crazy efficient. I want to say that that's what it was because I charged it after that that that weekend. Um I I I was impressed. Like it just kept photo after photo after photo after photo. And at first I had notifications on my phone turned on. Because I wanted I want dude, I want to make sure. I'm like, man, like let's make sure this thing is actually taking photos and uploading them, you know, make you know. So I I turned it on. I'm like, okay, yeah, no, all is well. And like I'm over I went off to a different stage, started shooting a stage, and I came back to my phone. I'm like, oh, well, we have like 300 notifications already, you know, in 20 minutes. I'm like, we're gonna turn that off. Yeah. But but I mean, if you're in a if you're in a remote part of uh you know the woods or something like northern Wisconsin, right? Um, where you don't know, is it US cellular, is it T Mobile, is it Verizon? You you're unsure, right? Um and let's say, let's say it's me. I have uh a hundred acres up north. I would love a hundred acres up north. I don't actually have it. I can make it up there once a month, you know, from now through hunting season, right? Like that's the ideal use case scenario, right? Like, talk talk to me about why Tacticam is the best option for me in that scenario.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Yeah, so I think first and foremost is a lot of what we just talked about, right? It's making sure that you have a product that doesn't need you to babysit it. And that is one of the things that we have put our stake in the ground as an organization is like we don't test product on customers. So when you when that product actually comes to market, you can confidently know that that thing has been put through its paces for a lot of times years at that point, right? And like we've worked out those bugs, we make sure we have the most reliable product you can possibly have in your hands. Now, let me caveat that. When you put technology, which a camera is, right, the elements for 365 days a year, those two things typically don't go together. So our first step is like, let's make sure it's as reliable as we can possibly make it. Our second step is like, if you do have an issue, let's make sure that we can take care of you and take care of you immediately. Hence the reason we have over 200 customer service agents who are employees of this organization. We don't source to a third party in the United States. They use the product, they understand the product, right? And they're really good at taking care of people. And if they can't fix it for you, we'll send you a replacement camera in the meantime to hold you over until A, we can either fix yours or B, get you a new one, right? So that's kind of the second step. The third step is what we are really doing and have worked with our partners on the IoT side, the cellular carrier side, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

So historically, when you would go into um, let's say a Best Buy or a Shields or a Cabela's and you b bought a cellular camera, you would have to buy the camera with the correct SIM card for the area that had or for the c carri that had the best coverage in the area you were in. Now hopefully.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Yeah, hopefully. Hopefully. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

This doesn't relate to who your cell phone carrier is. This is just like you saying, okay, I have 100 acres in northern Wisconsin. I think I've heard, I assume I'm making this up. ATT is the best coverage there. Okay, I'm gonna buy a cellular camera with an ATT SIM card. Okay, that's a hassle. And nine times out of 10, you don't know who has the best coverage and where you're gonna put it. Or let's say you want to move that camera, whoever has the best coverage in the new area, it might not be the same. So what we've done to really make it simple for our customers is we have like what we call it, multi-carrier autoconnectivity, meaning that what happens is when you flip that camera on, it doesn't matter who has the strongest signal. It could be ATT, it could be US cellular, it could be Verizon, etc. That camera is automatically going to connect to the strongest signal. You as the end user, you don't have to worry about like who am I getting a bill from? Who is it connecting? Doesn't matter. We deal with all of that on the back end, right? We take care of all that. For you, you just have your monthly subscription. In that case, like let's say you had 100 acres up north, you live a little bit further down south, maybe you have permission on out of state property. You have 20 cameras in your arsenal. I'm just making these numbers out. Yeah, that would be sweet.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

I want the 100 acres first.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

You might have 10 cameras on Verizon and three on US cellular and and four on ATT, right? You don't even probably know that unless you go into the app and dig deep and check. But ultimately, it doesn't matter to you, right? Because you, as the end user, all you want is strong cellular connectivity and a camera that works. So those are the types of things that we've really innovated on compared to some of our competitors to make sure that you have the best experience and frankly the best tool. Because at the end of the day, these are tools, and if they don't work for you, they're working against you, right? And we want to make sure they're working for you.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

All right, we're gonna take a brief break in the show to give a shout out to one of the PRS partners that helps put this on. Warn mounts, official rings and mounts of the PRS, PRS Rimfire. Makers of all the equipment to mount your optic to your precision rifle, one piece mounts, scope rings, MSR AR mounts, bases. They have everything you're looking for. Go check them out. Warnscope mounts.com. Man, yeah, so um I and I noticed that too when I used the the Ultra, like I turned it on, it just said searching carrier searching for strongest carrier, I think is what it said, and just went on and on and on. But it like and it's super affordable too. Like, and I don't mean this to sound like an infomercial too, but like um, I mean you guys handle all that back end stuff for really not a lot of money every month. I mean, the the the uh subscription cost is is really minimal for what you get for the services you get.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Yeah, I mean, our you can go as cheap as five dollars a month, right? And really the plans are just based off of kind of some of the features you want or you need. Like some people won't use all the features, some people will, and um, excuse me, how many photos a month do you want it to take? Um, and that's really situation dependent to you, right? Like the situation you described where you had it set up at a match and it was taking two or three photos a day, that's actually realistic for some of our customers who might have that camera. Like if you're in a state where feeders are legal, right? Like that might take that many photos. Now, for a lot of people, like northern Wisconsin or in the Midwest, if you have that camera set up in the woods on a travel corridor or a pinch point, right? Not on you might only get 10 or 15 photos a day. So we really try and make it so you can a la carte your plan to suit your needs. So you're not paying for things you don't need, right? But we're also not um not offering the things that you might want depending on your situation.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

Right. Um, one of the things that I haven't done about it is I haven't put it out for any nighttime photos or whatever, but I'm assuming I mean that the the the 4K image during the day looks beautiful, and like you can you you can see a lot of detail with the shooter and the prop and all of the things, right? Nighttime is it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:57

Just as good? I mean, uh the technology's there, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Oh, yeah. I mean, the nighttime images, honestly, like, and I'm not just saying this because you asked the question, like, I'm almost more impressed with the nighttime images and how that's improved than the daytime images. Like, no joke. Good quality daytime image is great, but I think we've really seen this evolution of improvement in the nighttime images. Now, the way the camera works, you're obviously going to be getting a black and white image, right? Because it's using an infrared sensor essentially as your flash. Um, but even that, for example, right, that's a way that we've evolved our product line too, where that ultra that you just showed um before, that is selectable, either low glow or no glow flash. So the difference between the two, a low glow camera, when that takes a picture, you're gonna see those little LEDs that are on the side of the camera, they kind of glow red. Right now, most ungulates cannot see the red wavelength of light. So even though we as humans can see it, a deer won't see it, an elk won't see it, etc. But what that allows you to do is you get a slightly better nighttime image at distance. Got it. There's certain examples where let's say on a food plot where you know those deer might be further away from the camera, it's actually more advantageous to have a low glow camera than a no glow camera. Now, other instances, let's say you have a camera over a scrape, right? Or you know that deer is going to be super close to the camera, you actually don't need that low glow IR. You can go with a no-glow camera. And the great thing about that then is even though the deer can't see it, like certain predators can, so coyotes, mountain lions, et cetera, or other humans. So if you have that camera hung on public land, you don't maybe want somebody to see that glow fly, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

So historically choose, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Historically, you had to choose do I want a logo camera or a no glow camera? Now with that ultra, you can just go in the app and you select, do you want it to function as a loglow or as a no glow? So again, it's like taking all of these things and making it as convenient as possible for you as the end user, where you're not thinking about like, where am I going to put this? Do I need low glow or no glow? Do I need ATT or Verizon? It's like, no, just take the camera, go put it where you want it, and then through the settings in the app, set it up to be optimal for that situation.

SPEAKER_03 32:14

Dude, what's awesome about that? If I'm a hundred acres, yeah, uh a couple hundred miles from my hundred acres, like I could change that on a fly. Like, we'd be laying in bed and all of a sudden something walks past and I'm like, oh, but I know there's coyotes or something out here too. Like I'm turning, I'm turning the flash off, basically, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

Dude, that's awesome. That's awesome. Let's uh so and we haven't talked about any of this uh before, but how and hopefully you can say it, but how are you guys um considering or already doing stuff with AI? Like there has there, I mean if you really understand AI, which I don't I mean, very few of us actually understand the potential and the power of it, but like there's a lot of different um I I like I I have Google Home on my phone, right? And we have the front doorbell goes off and it'll say, you know, yep, Ken walked in the door with a package, right? I mean, that happens every day. Walk in the door carrying a box. Like, but thinking about how we could apply that to what you guys do is pretty exciting.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

Totally. It's a great question. And um I'm glad you asked it. Honestly, it's it's something we have spent a ton of time working on, right? And like this is no secret, right? Like, I think everybody's working on AI.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

You have to embrace it. Everybody does, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Um, but ultimately, I think again, this is good, this goes back to where it gets super interesting, right? Like we typically think about cellular trail cameras as a hard goods physical product. What we don't always think about right away is the app version that's attached to it, the software, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

And that's another place where, you know, again, I talked about that internal hardware engineering team. We have an entire internal software engineering team too. So like we're putting as much fuel on the fire for the software, the app side of it as we are the actual hardware camera side of it.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Um and we take a lot of pride in our app, right, in terms of like how usable it is, um, how easy like, and let me give you here, I'll give you an anecdotal example here. I talked to earlier about like I'm a white-tailed nerd, right? Like I'm the I have spreadsheets of bucks and I keep track of encounters and pressure systems and moon phases and time of year. Like that used to be me, right?

SPEAKER_03 34:28

I love I love where you're going with this. Now everything you just mentioned, I we have data.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Totally, right? So lots of data points, okay. Now, my dad, for example, who I hunt with, all he wants is videos and pictures. He could pair with any like he's kind of that old school, you know, mentality in terms of hunting. I think the thing that's great about our app is like he can go on there and just as easily retrieve his photos and videos as I can go on there and start to use some of the analytics features so I no longer have to keep spreadsheets anymore. Okay. So going back to your original question with AI, like to me, that's where AI actually gets exciting is how can we take all of the legwork that some of us fanatical, you know, data freaks in terms of the hunting world, um, and make it easier for ourselves, right? How can we compile that data? How can we consolidate it into usable information very quickly so that I don't have to spend an hour before I go sit in the woods like reviewing all this data to decide where I'm gonna sit? So there's a couple different ways in which AI can be used in our space. So one is exactly what I'm talking about, and it's you know, essentially using and building algorithms to give you predictive analytics with regards to deer movement, um, pressure, you know, as that pertains to pressure, time of year, wind changes, temperature changes, et cetera. So we released a product in our app last year called Hunt Radar, um, and that's exactly what it is. But the cool thing about Hunt Radar for us, so I'm getting a long little long-winded.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

Oh, good, man. Nerd out. Nerd out.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

So I'm sure any of your users or your listeners who are in the whitetail space, like you've heard of these other, seen these other deer predictivity apps, right? You download them, they tell you if it's a good day, if it's a bad day, if you should hunt, if you shouldn't hunt, etc. Most of those apps are built off of some type of anecdotal algorithm that somebody developed on a very specific set of circumstances. Okay. I won't name names, but one of them was built off of what a few handful of people saw in terms of deer movement over the course of a number of years on very low pressured large private land tracks in southeast Iowa, right? Like deer Mecca. Okay. That's great that that works for them, but how does that apply to you in Wisconsin who's hunting public land with like heavily pressured deer? It's not, it doesn't relate, right? The cool thing about us is over the course of the last five or six years, we have this bank of photos, right?

SPEAKER_03 37:04

So oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

So this blew my mind, right? So during the peak, so let's call it like peak time of year when we have the most cameras deployed and active, right? It's not unheard of reveal cameras to take a hundred million photos in a single day. Okay. Now these are cameras spread across the United States. Every single one of those photos has some information attached to it. Is it daylight? Is it nighttime, right?

SPEAKER_03 37:34

Temperature, humidity, location, GPS.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

So here's where it gets really interesting, right? Is those photos, like we don't necessarily I can't say, oh, this photo came from Ken's farm in northern Wisconsin, but we do know the zip code that it came from. So now what we can do is we can say, hey, screw your anecdotal feelings about this. We can look historically. Let's say it's October 23rd. We can use AI and this algorithm to look historically, and we say, okay, in the zip code that Ken's farm is in in northern Wisconsin over the last five years, how many average pictures per day? Like we take out all the nighttime photos, you can't hunt at night, right? We take out all the blank photos, all we care about is deer. What's the average number of photos that were taken on this given day over the last five years? So we have historical data that we can then match up to current data, right?

SPEAKER_03 38:29

So you could probably factor wind, exactly weather, sunshine, all of that. You could do it all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

You have a hunt predictivity component that is specific to you, your location, right? Which factors in hunting pressure, which factors in geographic location, which factors in all the things that are true to your farm. Now, not necessarily down to your farm level, but down to your zip code level, right?

SPEAKER_03 38:56

Within five, 10 miles.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Exactly. So that's one way that like we're really leveraging AI and our ability to take a lot of data, you know, billions, truly billions of photos, right, that have data attached to them and provide you as the customer some really valuable information that saves you a bunch of time.

SPEAKER_03 39:15

That is wild. That is wild. That is not where I thought you were going with all that, too. But I mean, that totally makes sense. You have you have all the data points. It's just a matter of using a a tool like AI to just say, hey, here's what I'm looking at, here's what you need to look at, and then just give me the output, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

Yeah. That's wild.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

Back to your like Google Nest example, right? Like, there's other ways AI can be used. Um, I'll go back to something I said earlier. Like, we will never allow our customers to be guinea pig. Some of our competitors have already um introduced technology that they might say, Hey, I only want to see deer photos, right? And it cuts out all other photos. The stark truth of that, which a lot of people won't talk about, like I'm happy to say, is like it's actually not as accurate as we think. Depending on the model you use or the AI technology you're using, you're talking about sometimes 50% inaccuracy in distinguishing between deer and non-deer. Now, for me, if I'm after a specific buck, yeah, I'm not gonna take a 50% chance that that thing accidentally misidentifies it, right? I don't get that picture.

SPEAKER_03 40:21

So you want to see the pictures.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

So that's where, like, you know, some people might criticize us and be like, well, your competitor does that. And it's like, sure, we've actually been working on it as longer longer than they have, and we're working on a solution that's actually 100% accurate, right? And provides you the outcome you want instead of what you think you're getting. So there's those are kind of the two buckets which I think we'll see the most change in technology and AI is like, how do you use it for predictivity analytics like um digestion, right? And how do you use it for maybe modification of what photos you see?

SPEAKER_03 40:58

Yep. Yeah, as you were talking there, I was kind of imagining this future state it which might actually be true then, like where let's say on my hundred acres, I have six cameras, right, along a couple different corridors, right? But if I could if I could start identifying, you know, let's say there's three or four deer on that property that I'm interested in, you know, and just call it deer one, deer two, deer three, deer four, and monitoring, like, hey, it went past this camera at this time, and then it went past this one, and then it didn't go past the other two. Oh, the next day it went past the other two, and then these two, right? And you could start seeing patterns of you know, behaviors like that is super powerful, right? Because then you could it's it's a chess game that we're playing, right? Like it just gives you another, you know, another night to play with, you know, or another another rook that you're playing, you know, this hunting game, and you're not even you're not even there, which is awesome, Mike, but you're you're engaged with it, right?

SPEAKER_00 41:56

Exactly. And I think that's where you know I'm not we're not immune to it, right? There there is some controversy in the space of like, hey, what role does this technology have in hunting, right? And like what where's the line? What's where do you cross the line? How far is too far, right? And where I kind of go back to is, and again, this probably sounds biased sitting in the chair that I'm in, right? But like this is this is how I feel personally. Take tacticam and reveal out of it, right? I'm not speaking for them in this situation, but it's like, okay, people used to drive a horse and buggy to work. You could still do that, right? But you don't. Why? Because there's a better option available, right? This technology is going to continue to evolve whether you want it to or not. And at the end of the day, like I spend an ungodly amount of time tree sand every year, right? Like 99% of those deer that I have photos of, and I have all these tools to use, like, I don't kill them in a given year, right? So it's like, yes, it's a tool, but ultimately at the end of the day, it's no different than like how bows have evolved or how rifles or how rifle optics have evolved or thermals have like all of these things continue to evolve, right? Um, and this is just one component of it. So I have a hard time pointing the finger at one component if you're not pointing the finger at all of them, right?

SPEAKER_03 43:18

Right. Yeah, and I, you know, in in our game, in our sport, you know, I and I get to ask this question pretty frequently like, well, at what point do you start outlawing some of the equipment stuff? Yeah, you know, I'm like, never. Like I I can't and you can never say never, right? Because then somebody's gonna develop something, but I never want to hamper the technological development that a lot of our partners are doing, right? Like I hope somebody comes out with a scope that you know identifies targets, right? And it maybe has some sort of uh um augmented reality overlay or something like that that like highlights the target. So as soon as you f you know, as soon as it comes within the uh the view viewing area, like, oh, there it is, right? And then maybe. Even highlights, hey, given the wind conditions and all this, like this is where you should be aiming. You still have to execute that shot. Right? Having all the the technology in the world, like you know, I I honestly I take a thermal with me hunting, you know, to scan. Um, it's something a friend of mine turned me on to a couple years ago. We read all the DNR laws, and it's like they in Wisconsin here they say no artificial illumination. So that tells me they're trying to you know prevent somebody from a truck with a spotlight or infrared, right? With uh with you know, with nods or something like that. But thermal that that qualifies, but yeah, I want to know as I'm walking out in the woods, like you know, are there deer that I'm gonna be bumping on the way out, right? Or when I get into position, now I start scanning. You know, we we actually hunt a badass spot over by it's I'm not gonna say it on here. It's over in western Wisconsin. Okay. Um it's a couple hundred acres of DNR land. Uh a buddy of mine found and and we've been hunting. Um we can shoot four or five hundred yards, you know, uh uh which is hard to hard to find that spot in Wisconsin. Yeah. But there's a a nice stand of wood that deer typically populate in, and there's a few areas that you can shoot them, but they go go in those areas. And I mean I sit down, yeah, my son's been with me the last three years. We're 500 yards away, we don't have to be super quiet, we don't have to do the whole scent-free stuff, you know, and we can just basically post up and watch for deer, you know, and thermal helps with that, you know, until mid-afternoon when everything's hot. But you know, it should you outlaw thermals and 25 power rifle scopes, you know? Yeah, no, it's just yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

I think there's you can look at both sides of that coin too, right? Like there's certain technologies that make you a much more ethical hunter, right? Inherently, and I think I'll go back to trail cameras because that's what we're talking about, right? But it's like I think I have so many examples of which they actually help or add to the ethics of hunting or the outcome, right? And the other way, right? So, for example, like one of my good friends has a bunch of property in southern Ohio, right? And they got hit really hard by um EHD last year.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

And based off of the number of cameras that they had in the ground that they own that they hunted, they could figure out it's like, hey, there is not a sustainable population of deer here this year because of how many bucks we lost to EHD that like they decided not to hunt on that farm that year. Now, that might have not been something they would have known had they not had cameras out, right? Yeah, or even beyond that, down to like, you know, I can't tell you how many times, I mean, I've had it happen to myself or buddies too, where it's like, you know, during archery season you shoot a deer, you're pretty confident where you hit it. That can't that deer runs past the camera, you can confirm where that deer was hit, and that determines like, do you go track that deer right away? Do you wait? Right? There's so many of these situations, or even like age class of deer, right? It's like yeah, on a given property, most of us You can watch a deer.

SPEAKER_03 47:05

Yeah, you could watch a deer evolve year over year.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

And most of us, like you get to a certain point in your hunting career and you're going after a certain age class of animal, when you know what the average age class is, you kind of know what your quote unquote mature deer is, because in the UP of Michigan, a mature deer is a different age than that in Southeastern Kansas, right? Or southeastern Iowa. And having the cameras out there and having that data coming in and allowing you to know that, right, ultimately can lead to a better outcome for the herd, the herd health, right, and the longevity of this pursuit that we're participating in.

SPEAKER_03 47:39

Yep. Yep. I kind of I kind of chuckle there. There was um so this piece of property we hunted on this year, we saw a couple really mature bucks. We only hunt up there the first day of rifle season.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 47:52

Um, and we've actually had we've had we've had success more often than not, and and it had taken nice mature bucks. Um right away, first thing in the morning, we saw a really nice mature buck come through and it stayed behind the the wood line. You know, we saw it on thermal, got it on glass, and like, oh man, that thing needs to slow down and make a turn. Like, like that is a nice buck, especially for public land. Saw two of those, I think, before noon. Then we saw a couple dough, and then it was getting actually that was all kind of before noon, and the wind was up. Uh, the wind picked up after that, and I was like, uh, there we're not gonna see anything. Kept looking at the forecast and like, man, like the last half hour of the day, the wind is supposed to just lay lay down, and you know, it and it's like full sun, like this could be really good. Like, I think the last you know, the going into Twilight's gonna be really good. And sure enough, like we had we had two uh two small deer come out, six pointers. Uh one actually had a broken rack, but then the other one's kind of small. And we're watching them like a couple years, those will be nice deer for where this is at in Wisconsin. And um and like, well, if if we're not gonna see one of those bigger box, like we'll we'll just take a dough, which I had turned into meat sticks, and my local processor charged me, it turned out to be five hundred and six dollars for meat sticks, and I'm like, I would have never shot that dough had had I not had I known that. But so we shoot this dough like with 10 minutes left of daylight, you know, uh field dress it and and drag it out of there after dark. And um the next morning I took it to our local, um, it's like a little family-owned meat processor, awesome place, makes incredible meat sticks, a little pricey. Um, but when I went to drop it off, there was a DNR lady there. And she's like, Hey, I just want to introduce yourself. I'm from the DNR. I'm like, Whoa, whoa, I'll report this kill. I I I haven't yet. I got 24 hours, it's only been and she's like, I'm just gonna age the deer. Like, that's all I care about. And I'm like, so so then she asked me, and my son was with me too, and and she's like, How old do you think this deer is? I'm like, I don't know, that's a good sized dough. Like, it's gotta be at least three, you know, maybe four. Yeah, you know, and she kind of chuckles and she does the whole tooth thing, and she's like, This thing just lost its baby teeth, it's barely a year and a half old. I'm like, Oh, I have no idea. Yeah, I have I I mean, they all look big to me. I don't know, but to your point, like if you got deer coming on camera, I mean bucks are a little bit different because you can kind of see the evolution, you know. But you know, if if you're all about data collecting and and and trying to make choices with your deer herd, like having evidence, not just hearsay, not what grandpa says he saw from the road or anything like that, but if you have like physical evidence, hey, I've watched these deer mature over the last five years, like now you're making good choices, right?

SPEAKER_00 50:45

Yeah. And you know, not I'm not saying that's what hunting has to be. Like, if you if shooting a year and a half old buck fires you up, like seriously, like I'm all my my whole take on what people decide to shoot, as long as they're happy and excited about it and like they're ex they feel like they made a good choice and it fit like it's what they wanted to do, like more power to you. I don't care, right? So for that person, just finding out where that year and a half old buck is, like via the cameras, it can make it a lot easier, right? And can help them out. If you're into the whole data collection and and you're trying to shoot older age-class deer too, like to your point, with bucks, it's pretty easy, right? You can identify them year over year over year, instead of it becoming this like, uh, his back's got a little sway in it where you know, like I think he's about four, right? It's like, well, we've had photos of that deer for the last four years, so we know he's at least five. And other things like that, that I think the the tool goes far beyond just quote unquote helping you kill a deer.

SPEAKER_03 51:46

Right, right. Um what about using AI to like measure deer? Like is that that's totally a thing, right? Like, could okay, so could you actually could AI and and and the reveal uh software and all that, like could you could you actually see like, oh, this is 170-inch whitetail?

SPEAKER_00 52:07

Definitely. So there's some tools out there right now that you can drop a cellular or you can drop a drug photo into and it will score your deer for you. Um I will say the ones that are out there that we've messed with are not super accurate.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:21

Um they're in some instances they're really close, in other instances, they're pretty far off. So um that's another one too, where it's like it's just a matter of the technology getting to a place where it's accurate enough that like we would use it in the field, right? Right. Those types of things, like it's all on the radar, right? It's all a matter of time before most of these tools are very available and very accurate, right?

SPEAKER_03 52:47

Dude, that is wild. Yeah. It's so cool to be alive right now, right? And it'd be kind of nerd out on this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 52:55

Totally.

SPEAKER_03 52:56

So I want to ask you, and we're we're coming up on an hour. Um, the security side of things. Yeah. So, like uh, you know, you obviously start out with action cameras, then trail cameras. Now another opportunity here. Uh, let's talk about that and explain that.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

Yeah, so really this was another like feat, this was through the feedback pipeline of our customers. So, what we continuously heard from our customers was that they were using our trail cameras for security um in situations where traditional security offering might not uh be applicable. So, for example, you talked about your house, your Google system. A Google system requires a couple things. One, it requires Wi-Fi, right? And two, it requires a power source.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:38

So if you think about the majority of like hunting properties, yeah, human ranch, ag like any of these types of things, a lot of times you have things in places that you want to keep an eye on that you don't have power or you don't have Wi-Fi.

SPEAKER_03 53:55

So our customers are which are both you solved both of those issues already, right? Right.

SPEAKER_00 54:00

Oh, I'm just gonna take this trail camera and put it there. Great. So what we realize is like, hey, you guys aren't wrong. Like, this is a good solution for that. However, if that's truly what you want to use it for, we can build you a more purpose-driven product and app for a security UK use case so that you can specialize. It's like, hey, if you want to use it for security, here's your piece of hard goods, here's your piece of software. If you want to use it for you know, trail camera for game, here's your piece of hard goods, here's your piece of software. So I I say that I'm not saying that a tell you a trail camera won't work for security, but it comes down to it's just like, what is it optimized for? And that's really where we saw the opening in the space was like, let's build a camera and an app that's optimized for security so that the people that want to use it that way have that offering. And man, it's like it's so true. It's like if you don't want to deal with the circus of like, okay, do I need to get a Starlink?

SPEAKER_01 54:57

No my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 54:58

Have internet, and then do I need to have power like get an electrician there to run power to my pole building, which is 500 yards from the closest, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 55:06

You know how to cost a linear foot to run power to oh my gosh, especially if you want real power. Total, totally, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

And it's as easy as like hunters have already figured out we know how to hang trail cameras, right? It's as easy as picking the spot you want to put it and put it there and it connects to your phone.

SPEAKER_03 55:23

Yep, yeah. And you get this I mean it's similar software and all of that right behind it. You know, I I have two here that are gonna go at the PRS office, which is unfortunately not at our home. So, but you know, as you know, we accumulate stuff at the office, like we want to keep an eye on it, you know. And I have Google Home set up there, but I can't modify the outside of the building. You know, so that's where this is really gonna come in. It's a it's a tin building or whatever that I'm hanging these cameras on the outside. Um, same software or similar software, or what am I getting for for notifications and feedback and all that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

Really, in terms of the let's call it the operating system, the powerhouse behind both the software and hardware, almost identical. Um, really, it's just the outputs are optimized, right? So the camera itself, it's optimized to be hung higher because from a security perspective, you want a high vantage point, right? Where you can pan, tilt, scan, um, and you have a wider field of view, right? Whereas you show camera, you want to be hung at about chest height, right? With very specific field of view to pick up on animals, you know, game about deer size or smaller. So part of it is like things like that. And then the other part of it's just like how the app's organized. You know, from a security perspective, a lot of times you want to be able to go into various photos or locations a lot quicker, where on like uh hunting side of it, you just want your most recent photos. You're not necessarily you don't necessarily care as much which location they came from as like your first bit of information. Yeah, right. For you, it's like you need to know did that photo come from the driveway, from the front of the building, the back of the building very quickly. So, again, it's just just like those optimizations on either side that are kind of specific to the use case, security versus hunting. But I mean, even like I'll use myself as an example here again. I've never had a security camera on my house, mostly because of the places I've lived.

SPEAKER_03 57:13

I have you but I rarely lock the door, but now I mean I got rifles and stuff. You're like, shit's got to be locked up.

SPEAKER_00 57:20

Totally. And the other part of it was like I just didn't want to deal with like getting power there and modifying the house. What like now I just put two Defend 360s on my house, right? And I can I have security cameras around the whole house. I just did it because it's easy, right? I think there's so many of us where it's like if you had the easy solution, it doesn't hurt to have it, but you're not gonna go through the rigor morrow that you need to to get a traditional security camera there if it's not high priority, right?

SPEAKER_03 57:46

Right, right. Dude, one of the other things I like about it too is the opportunity with, I mean, if it's a cellular and and location doesn't matter, like I don't have to have power, like nothing has to be permanent. Um, I'm gonna hang one on our on our match trailer. So when we go to finales and whatnot, if I'm stopping somewhere along the night, I'm gonna hang a camera on it, right? Uh when we get to location, if it's not a secured, you know, gun range or whatever, and I have to leave the trailer there, or I'm leaving at the verbo or something like that. I'm hanging a camera on it. Like, period. Like I want to know if anybody's snooping around, you know.

SPEAKER_00 58:19

Well, and you hit the nail on the head, like you're not tied to a location. So like we have a lot of a lot of our business on the security side is in like the contractor space too. And these guys do the same things, right? Like they'll have the same handful of cameras and they move them from job site to job site, or they have cameras that live on their work trailers. So it's like when they pull it from one job site to the next, it's not like you're disconnecting, reconnecting, finding power. It's just like wherever you go, the camera goes with you, right? And it's just plug and play.

SPEAKER_03 58:50

Yeah, yep. And that's how that's how we're gonna use it for the equipment trailer, too. So that I mean, it doesn't hurt. It's belt and suspenders, like lock the door, put a camera on it. Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah. Man, yeah, Greg, dude, I appreciate I appreciate you giving us an hour of time here. Uh, it's a lot of fun to talk about this stuff, and you know, maybe we'll have you guys on again here soon. Where um I'm sure you're gonna have products get released this year, right? You know, new stuff coming.

SPEAKER_00 59:16

Um, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 59:19

Yeah, and the AI side of this stuff really has me excited. Hopefully, uh I mean, it's just gonna be exciting to see how things develop over time here and what a time to be alive.

SPEAKER_00 59:29

Yeah. No, I appreciate you having me. It's super fun to talk to you, and like even uh, I know we've been talking prior to this, but like it's fun to see our customers or partners find other applications for the camera. Like, I love what you guys are doing in terms of using the cameras for you know, downrange of shooters, places you can't traditionally put camera people, right? Just from a safety perspective. And I know we're talking about other ways where we can maybe integrate too. And it's fun to just continue to evolve and explore uh the way we can use this technology. It's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 59:58

Heck yeah, man. Uh uh we appreciate your partnership and and look forward to we're gonna probably take a hundred thousand photos this year with Tactic Camp just at matches. So I love it. Yep, heck yeah. Man, I appreciate you. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:12

All right, thanks, man.