The Man Behind Geissele's PRS Matches

In this episode, we sit down with Drew Walter—2025 PRS Regional Match Director of the Year—to talk about what it takes to build memorable PRS matches, grow a shooting community, and host some of the most respected events in precision rifle competition.

From getting his start as a match director in 2019 to helping develop the Geissele Precision Rifle Range, Drew shares the lessons he's learned from hosting national and regional matches, designing challenging but fair stages, and constantly refining the shooter experience.

In this episode:

•Drew Walter's journey into match directing
•Building the Geissele Precision Rifle Range
•What makes a great PRS stage
•Lessons learned from hosting national matches
•How course design has evolved over the years
•The growth of the Geissele Gas Gun Series
•Why gas gun competition is attracting new shooters
•Running regional matches while competing nationwide
•Travel, RV life, and balancing business with competition
•The PRS community and what makes it unique

Whether you're a competitor, match director, or someone thinking about shooting your first PRS match, this conversation offers a behind-the-scenes look at what goes into creating great events and why the PRS community continues to grow.

If you enjoy the episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and let us know which guest you'd like to see on the podcast next.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Stand by.

unknown 0:02

Shoot it. Stand by.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Welcome back. Uh PRS Podcast. Drew, it's good to have you on board, man. Thank you. Good to be here. Yeah. Heck yeah. So Drew Walter, uh, our regional series match director of the year. Um, you do a fantastic job out there in Eastern PA, and uh this should be a fun conversation about it, right? Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. How long? Uh well, let's I I guess let's start with the match directing side of things. Um, how many years now have you been doing it? I guess give us a history of way pre-Geisley and all that.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Um man, I started back in 2019. Um believe it or not, I was one of those lucky ones. I held a uh national match before I even held a regional match. Yeah, that doesn't happen anymore. Um Yeah, so I talked to Shannon, just called him up out of the blue one day, and he's like, Yeah, man, I've had it. So man, and yeah, I knew nothing. I mean, I knew nothing. That's the if anybody shot that Maryland match, they they knew.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Um so I lasted one year, all that happened, and then and then I went to Peacemaker, and Peacemaker was good, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Um I had a good match there, but they uh they jacked the rate up on me considerably.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Um did it get bought out in the meantime? Um wasn't there an exchange of hands or something?

SPEAKER_00 1:35

There was. Um, so back in 2020, I was looking to buy Peacemaker. Okay, but the price was astronomical. I don't know if he ever got that. I if he did, good for him, but it was way overpriced. But uh so then really I was gonna hang it up, and it just happened to be Bill Geisely's outside sales rep for the government was in my shop that day, right when I was talking to Peacemaker. And he was like, hey man, Bill just bought a piece of property. Why don't you talk to him? I'm like, yeah, just call Bill Geisley and ask him to use his property. And but basically that's what happened, and yeah, man, the rest is history.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

And and getting to meet Bill at last year's Pro Series finale that you hosted, awesome job there, by the way. I think that's one of the best matches we've ever had, man. Thank you. Um yeah, it was that was awesome. But getting to meet Bill there, I could totally see how that conversation would go, right? Where you're like, hey, I'm a match director, I've been doing this a couple years, got some pro series matches, and you know, want to come check out the place. And he probably gave you the keys to the place before ever really getting to know you, you know.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Like, yeah, check it out. Yeah, 100%. You know, and I gotta be careful what I say around Bill because it just happens. Like, hey, I need you know, I'd like to get this area over here cleared, and next time I come up, it'd be clear.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

Yeah, exactly. So and no remnants of trees or anything. Yeah, that's awesome. Man, I I pulled up your 2019 match. Um, the one that was in Mount Victoria, Maryland. Um do you remember how many folks were at that match?

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Boy, I I don't probably I doubt if it was a hundred.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

135? Really? Isn't that kind of crazy to think like your first match, it's a pro series match, and you've been shooting for a little while, right? So I mean people knew who Drew Walter was, right? Yeah, but to have 135 at your first match on basically unknown, you know, on unknown land, you know. And and I'm looking, there's a ton of members. Uh Keith Baker won wins that match, one of I think he's at 13 Pro Series matches now. Yeah, he just he just got his 13th this year. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So he won your first match there. And also in 2019, he won uh our first match at the Barrel Maker. He won that match too. No kidding. So yeah. Yeah. Small world. And let's take a brief break in the show to give a shout-out to one of our partners, Grey Ops CNC, official magazine of the Precision Rifle Series. Greyops CNC has earned a reputation for quality craftsmanship and attention to detail. Their magazine extensions and accessories are built to improve handling, promote smooth feeding, and help competitors stay efficient when every second counts. It's practical gear, designed by shooters, trusted by shooters. Check them out. Greyopscnc.com. So uh when did you start hosting regional stuff?

SPEAKER_00 4:47

When uh when I got up to Guysley. Um wasn't really planning on it, honestly. Uh wasn't it on my radar, I should say. Um, but Bill wanted to host host some gas gun matches. And then we held our first gas gun match, and that went real really well. And then I remember Shannon back in the day held double headers, where he held gas gun and bolt gun on the same week. And I was like, man, why can't I do that? So um I started doing that, and man, it's it's been a hit, you know.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Which I find uh uh kind of funny. Last year I I came out and shot on one day with you, had a great time. That was my first experience at that range, too. And uh and I thought, you know, I'm going to Geisley range. So I brought a gas gun to the PRS match. I didn't shoot the gas gun match the day before, and then ended up being the only gas gun guy in the bolt gun match. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Bill, Bill, I mean, you know, you were there clearly at the at the banquet, um, at the finale banquet. He's and he's working on it, man. He wants to build a gas gun that that runs right next to a bolt gun.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

And so I dude if I I I believe it. I mean, if he's gonna put some effort in, I mean, if he's gonna do anything, he's gonna put effort into it. And and he is, and he's wicked smart too. I mean, he's yeah. I I'm looking forward to it. I mean, my I I ran a Geisely Strato match. Um, you know, it's a it's a great shooting rifle uh with with hand loads. I tried running some factory stuff through it, and uh, you remember I was kind of all over the place. Um but uh yeah, I mean a gas gun ran flawlessly. You know, that's what I think that's what you get out of a a Geisely, you know. Um yeah. Yeah. So uh this year you were or for 2025, I should say, right? You were the regional series match director of the year, man. Congrats on that. That's awesome. Yeah. How many uh how many regional series matches did you actually run last year? I mean, you ran a ton of matches if you include the Geisley stuff too, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Yeah, I think there was uh nine total regionals. Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. So yeah. This year we'll be doing 10. So this this coming weekend is is the first one of the year. And you know, I don't know if you remember, I I held uh my national match in March, the end of March up at that guy filming. That's it. And it yeah, it's brutal. I mean, we had a the last one we had to close it down two or three times because of snow squalls because you couldn't see the targets. And then uh I swapped with BPRC. BPRC used to have it in September, and we swapped our dates, and it's been much better. But these guys are in for a rude awakening this weekend. What's the weather supposed to be like? 40 degrees as a high, 15 to 20 mile an hour winds. It's gonna be cold. It's gonna be cold, yeah. Probably not, you know, the the finale wasn't much different. I mean, Sunday it got a little bit warmer, but Friday and Saturday it was pretty cold.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

The wind really, really bit through, man, went right through your clothes.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

I really wish we had the wind Friday throughout the match.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

I don't honestly, I don't know if it would have changed the result, right? I mean, to have Austin and and uh Morgan do as well as they did. I mean, Clay, Clay obviously made a uh a really good run at it there, but if we'd had more wind, I think you would have had the same top three guys, you know, and it just everybody else would have been spread to the bottom, you know. Man. So how do you find time to run 10 regional series matches, man? Because I've been I've been following you this so far this year, and you actually took last weekend off. You were signed up for for that match, but it feels like you've shot every weekend and it's all over the country.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Yeah, I had to stay home because if you guys don't know, I got engaged, and if I didn't stay home this past weekend, I wasn't gonna be married. Um yeah, I I don't know. I'm I'm I'm I'm just fortunate. I'm blessed that I can I can do that. You know, I the businesses run well without me here. I got a good crew. Um so I'm just fortunate I can I can uh afford to do it. And two, I got an awesome fiance. She's just lets me do what I want.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

So we got a chance to spend some time with her at the finale. You found a good one. Yeah. Definitely. Yep. Awesome. Awesome. So what what other matches do you plan to shoot this year? I mean, uh are you you and Blue and the fiance hitting the RB and traveling around?

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Um, not the RB. I think the the match that she wants to go to is um out in Beatsy, British Columbia. We're gonna we're gonna do the MDT match and then we're gonna go up through Calgary and do all that. Um Canmore, Banff.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

Yeah, yeah, Lake Louise, all the cool stuff. Yeah, we're gonna do that.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

But I have I'm on slate to do 14 national matches this year. Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

Yeah. So let's talk about that. I I've always had this impression, I and I feel I feel pretty strongly about this, right? I in my career as a match director, um, you know, I tried to get clever and do some clever things. Actually, you picked up on some of the clever things and ran one of our matches, you know. Um and clever's okay. I mean, you have to use it sparingly, right? But I felt like the more that I shot, um, you know, like I remember my first time going to um I think it was a Punisher Positional, and and I'm like, okay, I get it. Like this, these are some really well thought out good stages. Um and I started incorporating a lot of you know stuff into my course of fire, both regional and the and the pro series that we ran. Um how uh uh obviously your course of fires have changed over the years. I mean, is that a big part of it? Like get out and shoot and and pick up on stuff?

SPEAKER_00 11:18

100%. Um and then listening to to other pro shooters, I mean, trust me, I I'll do the dumbest thing in the world before, and I won't even realize until someone slaps me and says, hey dude, you know, like and uh you know, a lot of guys like to do a long-range stage. And I and up until maybe a year and a half ago, uh I had on a regional match, I had Baker there and I had Patty there. And those two were battling out for the lead in the last stage of the day. Uh you guys have been up to my range. It was stage one, all the way up far end to the right. And it was a long-range stage, and both those guys started whining. I'm just like, you know, shoot better, you know. And they're like, dude, it if you catch us at the wrong time of the day, it it'll just kill you. You you you you're done. And sure enough, all three of us, I think I got a one, Patty got a two, and Baker may have got a five or six, but literally took those two out of the lead. They couldn't, they couldn't win. I was like, huh. So now I don't do a long-range stage. I'll just like every fourth stage, I'll do a long-range target. And I let you follow up. I don't, I don't just give you a a one shot at it because I that's one of my pepps where match directors will put out an eight, nine thousand yard target and give you one shot at it. Like you gotta give the guys a follow-up shot, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

So see where it goes. Yeah. Yeah. It's especially I'm thinking like the center part of your range. Like it's I mean, it's a whole hillside going up. So uh, I mean, anything that you miss, you're gonna see, right? Unless it's in the woods there, but you you're gonna see most of it because there's a nice dirt backdrop, you know. Um yeah, that's a good point. I I you shot the barrel maker probably three of the four years, right? Uh you were there regularly. And um I always had that one platform on top of the hill for you know day one, and we ran a troop line from like 400 to 1300, you know, and I I was proud to have a 1,300 yard target in Wisconsin, you know, because that's like kind of unheard of here. But you know, to do it all over again, I would have stopped that thing at 900 yards, you know. Because it's not it's not fair. Right. It's unless you have a 1,300 yard target every third stage, you know, and everybody has the same opportunity, but that's not possible either.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Exactly. I mean, when I did the when I did the finale, that was probably it took me the longest out of any match. And the wall behind me, I don't know if you can see all the tack marks in it. I had I had stages, three stages for every every stage. I had three of them designed. And I and I different targets and so on and so forth. But then, you know, I started doubling up on targets as I I got five or six down. I was like, no, no, that's not gonna work. So it took me forever to get that to where everybody was pretty much shooting the same conditions, the same yardages, same time. Um, I really tried to get that match balanced.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

Balanced, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Yeah. Yeah, I think you did a fantastic job at the finale. Like it was it it it felt like the best shooters had the best shot, right? You know, and and the wins there. Uh you know, let's talk about that. Like um when when I shot there in August and I was shooting a six arc, that I mean, ballistically is pretty decent. But like, you know, we get up to our first stage, and I'm like, there's a little bit of left to right. I can see it in the in the sky and the trees, and it's like, no, that's not that's not what's actually happening. Like, wait till you take your first shop to that, you know. And it and I I don't remember what happened. It was straight up or it was right to left or something like that. But everything was saying wrong information, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Did you happen to see the uh the MDT video of the shootout, not uh the finale, and Russ Yalmer was there and he was on, can't remember what barricade he was on, but it was train up day, and he was like, he's like, everything is blowing right to left. He goes, Yeah, I remember that. But I gotta hold left. Do you see that?

SPEAKER_02 15:39

Like, yeah. He's standing next to the prop, like kind of holding the rifle, like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's s'en, right? I mean, it's uh it's coal country, right? Eastern Pennsylvania. Um big hills, right? Some weird, weird cuts that come through the property, a lot of trees, you know, to you know, kind of baffle or change things, right? Um yeah, it's a very unique piece of property. I and and and I think it's the most out west match we could have done anywhere on the East Coast, you know. Yeah. Um all right, let's uh let's talk a little bit about your regional series. So um how many how many shooters do you typically have at a regional match? Um probably 70 to 80. Um that's pretty solid.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Well, that's I don't wanna that has nothing to do with me, honestly. That's Bill Geisley giving away a super duty, you know, and every match. Yeah, every match. Every match, every regional match. He gives a super duty away, 12 triggers, two hand guards, two complete uppers, like four rifle barrel blanks. So it has nothing to do with me. Guys, you're and you can only win one super duty a year. So say the top five get they they've all won a super duty. They each get one. Yeah, they then it goes up to a random draw. And so the top three guys usually get to walk, and then we raffle everything else off. So you can come in dead last and and you still have a chance to win that super duty.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

So yeah, it's a few thousand dollar badass rifle. Yeah, you know, everybody needs one. Yeah. Yeah. And if you live in Virginia, you better start.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Oh, and here's another thing. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I've seen I've seen some of this in Virginia. Yeah, so so Bill heard about this, right? He sends me a hundred lowers, AR lowers, and he's like, give them away. I was like, like, man, that's a lot of paperwork on my end, Bill, but yeah, I'll I'll do it. But he was like, yeah, man. He's like, screw those people down there. So being a hundred lowers.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

If that doesn't tell you who Bill Geisley is, right? I mean, that's that's pretty awesome. That's pretty awesome. So you're um I want to talk about your shop, and then I want to come back and talk about Geisley Gaska. But so you're in Virginia, um, you you have a uh a diesel automotive shop, right? And then tied to that's the War Rifles. That's great. Yep. Yep. So uh talk about your day-to-day and you know what each of the businesses are and what you do.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Yeah, so I started back in '93, I started Waltz Autorepair. And if you guys don't know what acronym of war is, it's Waltz Autorepair. So most people don't know that. I didn't funny, when I started doing you know, payments on Stripe, I kept getting these chargebacks from people. And they'd be like, Man, I I've never been to your shop. And I was like, hey, Waltz Auto repair. It's that's back when the my FFL and my EIN was all under Waltz Auto Repair. And then I had fun with it too, because people would call and like, man, I've never been there. It's like, dude, last week your wife came in and got a set of tires. And they're like, no. And uh eventually I tell them it's it's me, war rifles. You signed yeah, you signed up for a match, and that's uh yeah. I changed that now because it got to be a pain in the ass, but uh it was it was funny for a little while. But uh no, I started the uh the automotive side in '93 and just went with it. And then um I think 07, 06, 07, I started turning barrels just for local guys around here and myself, and then come to find out that I need a manufacturing license to do that. I didn't have one and I didn't think I didn't think I was manufacturing, but the ATF said, Yeah, you're manufacturing. So um I had to get in at the bell and I was shocked when they gave it to me.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Seriously? Oh yeah, dude. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, enough said.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

What so how did uh if we could talk about that, but you know, so you're spinning barrels for some guys or whatever, and and barrels aren't zeroized, right? Um and they just you know, you set the headspace off of whatever action. I mean you could you could probably make an argument like, hey, I just made this barrel and I gave them the barrel separate of the action, or they provided the action or whatever, but what did the ATF have to say and how'd they how'd they uh how did that conversation go?

SPEAKER_00 20:44

They were actually cool about it. Um man, I was I was worried when they came in, you know? And uh so they go up kind of unannounced?

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Oh yeah, just walked in the shop. Yep. And honestly, I didn't believe them.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

I didn't think they were ATF. I thought it was someone trying to spoof me. I was like, yeah, whatever. And they're like, no, man, they pulled out their credentials, and I was like, oh, oh man, sorry. Yeah, yeah. But like just in st street clothes, right? Yep, just regular clothes. And uh, you know, they just told me, you know, if you continue what you're doing, you can get in trouble. You need to get an FFL, you need to get in 07.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Um so they were cool and and I did it, you know. I it was a lot of legwork.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

So you want to hear a story about that? Yeah, absolutely. So yeah. Back when I was in after I got out of the Marine Corps, I went to college for automotive engineering. And uh I brought a pellet gun with me. And probably the worst thing ever. So do you remember that movie Men at Work? It had Emilio Espedez and they were super People with the pellet gun. I thought it was funny when I was in my dorm, people walking by, I was shooting people with the pellet gun.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

And it came back in the window real quick.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

They don't know where the hell it came from, we're laughing, we're laughing. And I was out at the bar one night, came in, and they were trying to hit this girl that was this was up in Cant, New York. So it was it was in the winter, it was snowing, and they were sledding down the hill. And I was like, give me that thing. And man, they had pumped that thing up ten times and I buried it right in her ass, like black. So of course, they all when public safety came around, they were like, Oh, Drew did it. Drew did it. If it's him, oh yeah. If it's him. So I get booted out of college my first semester. Are you serious? Oh yeah, I get arrested. That was it. I get arrested because I shot the girl. They hit she had to go to the hospital, get the pellet removed. Well, yeah. And so I apply for my FFL and they're like, they're like, hey man, you you need to get a hold of the arresting officer and have an affidavit sign, like, you know, this is what happened. From 20 years ago. Yes. That dude's long dead. I mean and I can't, I don't know, I I didn't even know who this girl was when I shot her. And I shouldn't say it's but believe it or not, the only thing they wanted to make sure was I wasn't dating her. They wanted to make sure it wasn't a domestic violence. It wasn't. And I was and it it held me up for, I don't know, four or five months, and they finally gave up and they let me have it.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

But that was a four or five month process to prove that this wasn't a college. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Yeah. Yeah, so be smarter when you go to school. Oh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

Yeah. I um I got a similar story uh that I'm really not proud of. Um and I can't believe I'm gonna tell this here, but my uh Nate Whitehead, who used to help uh put on the barrel maker, and I helped him with his match in in Michigan, pro series match, but we grew up together. Um he's still doing regional matches in Michigan. And oh that we were, I don't know, probably seventh grade, and um we both just got paintball guns, and they're like we and we had a big section of woods that was kind of set up really cool for paintball and stuff. And uh so we were gonna do this after school one day, and and uh had all of our stuff, you know, like all right, like after school, we'll run home and you know, do one-on-one paintball out in the woods, and we got home, and I'm like, you know what? The uh school bus is gonna be coming by here pretty quick. And which was the dumbest thing I could have ever uh it came by probably five minutes, you know, we got all our stuff ready, and five minutes later the thing rolls by and we lighted up with paintballs. And of course, we're in my yard, right? Like, so it's i it's obvious where it's coming from. Um all the kids on the bus were friends of ours. They knew we had paintball guns. They knew why I wasn't on the bus and that I was gonna go home and do this, you know. And then like half hour later, the cops are at the house, you know. Did you shoot a school bus? No. Yep. Oh, you don't go out. We told I owned up to it immediately. I'm like, yeah, it was 100% us. It was paintballs, yada yada. And and actually, the the officer like kind of taken aback and like, you know, Nate wanted Nate's like, dude, let's just get the hell out of here. I'm like, no, we are so boned. Right. We are we are done. But yeah, they they I mean, they didn't press any charges or anything. They're like, all right, it's kids being kids, and they owned it. It is what it is. I mean, there was no hiding from it. It came from my house, you know. One of the dumbest things I've ever done. Your dad beat your ass. Uh dad was my dad passed away at that point. But so my mom, though, she she didn't beat my ass, but she she called the bus garage and was like, no, they are not getting off like scot-free. Like, um, what did it cost to wash the buses? You know? And they're like, Well, you know, it's hard to put a number on. She's like, at least a hundred dollars, you know? And it was like, they're like, what do you want to see? She's like, I need you to send my son an invoice for this. Like, he's not getting off, you know. So I ended up, I don't know, it was 150 bucks or something like that, probably to wash all the buses. Who knows? But I'm surprised she didn't make me go there and wash the buses. That's what I thought you were gonna say. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

No. No, no, no good deed goes unpunished. That's not a good deal.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

But that's good for her, though.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. No, I I got in trouble a couple times in middle school. And uh like I I mean, we're we're down some tangents here, but you're getting to know Drew and I. Um she she was a school teacher herself, so she didn't put up with anything in in school. And I think she was a sixth grade teacher, so I was sixth or seventh grade, and I was fooling around in class and got sent down to the principal's office basically to just sit there, you know, and it was uh last hour of the day, and I'm sitting there, and all of a sudden my mom walks in, and and for some reason she had maybe uh in session or something, or whatever. She got out of work early and was like, Oh, I'll just go surprise Kenny and go pick him up at school. And she walks in just, you know, like, hey, I'll give you a ride home. And I'm sitting in the principal's office, and she's like, uh-uh. Nope. The whole next week I had I had to walk around the school, the perim outside perimeter of school, pick up trash. I mean, she's like, Yep, what do you need chores done around here? And they're like, I don't know, you know, it's springtime, and there's probably some garbage outside. Perfect. He's gonna be here all next week at seven o'clock in the morning to pick it up before school.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Good on her, though.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

That's my mom. Yep. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I I think that way now as a father, you know. But yeah, anyways, uh good good personal stories. Yeah. Uh let's take a brief break in the show to give a shout out to one of our partners, Greyops CNC, official magazine of the Precision Rifle Series. Greyop CNC has earned a reputation for quality craftsmanship and attention to detail. Their magazine extensions and accessories are built to improve handling, promote smooth feeding, and help competitors stay efficient when every second counts. It's a practical gear, designed by shooters, trusted by shooters. Check them out. Greyopscnc.com. Um, man, talk to me about the the guys of the gas gun series. How does that run? What what what do you bring out? Like, how do we uh yeah, if I want to compete now, what do I do?

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Really, we designed it so you know anybody that that has an AR can come out and and run what they got. You know, you can't really run SBR. Yeah, yeah. Hell man, Patty. Okay, I think the second match ever, Patty Young's won it with a 10 and a half inch. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh, you know, you need an optic. You can't do iron sights. You you're gonna need an optic. Um but it we designed it so you don't have to spend 10 grand on a rig. Um awesome. There there are 10 $10,000 rigs out there, but you know, last year, um the Marine Corps shooting team won the whole series running um um TAC Light, which is just an AR with a 10 power or less scope on it. Um, granted this is what these guys do for a living, pretty much. Um but you can go you can go get a you know an MP 15, you know, which is 500 bucks probably and throw a $500 scope on it and come out and compete, you know? Heck yeah. Um most of the targets are three to four MOA. Um so it it it's generous. Um the that was last year. Bill wants me to print them down a little bit. Um, and this year we're the whole Geisley team, we're running MRGGs. So we're running uh Oh no joke. Yeah, we're running 6'5 Creed Moores with that that new alloy brass. So we're gonna be running 140s about 3200. So oh 18-inch barrel, 20 inch? Uh I don't know. I don't have mine yet. So this week I'm back, I'm still on my 22 arc, but next month I'll have it. Um, I can't wait to see what my steel looks like after this year. Yeah. Yeah. Um Bill can afford more steel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

But uh no, you know, he wants to torture test them and see how they hold up. So we're we're gonna be yeah, we're gonna be running them. Yeah, but to get back to it, um, you know, you you can run an MRGG, a large frame. I don't really suggest it because it it kicks quite a bit and we're we're all about speed. Um to move on scoring system, but the faster you can get through it, the the the fastest time wins the match. So okay. Um how many how many stages? 10 stages. Um they're all 90 seconds. We do a lot of pistol in them. Um my match personally, I probably have 80% of the stages have pistol in them. So which I I like pistol, and you know, most of the guys that come up and shoot like pistol. Um so so yeah, I mean, it's just you know, every redneck has an AR.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

So and a pistol.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

So come on out, man. And uh there's no it's it's a lot like the PRS. There is no egos, everybody's willing to help you. Um, which is the biggest thing when you try to get new shooters out, they're like, ah, I've never done this before. And they don't, they're they're worried about making a fool out of themselves. And it it's not that at all. You know, it it it is amazing the community we have. You know, everybody's willing to help you and and let you get bigger, better. I mean, just look at the the win call situation. People come off the line, you just shot, and they'll tell you their win call. No other sport is like that.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

You know? No, right. Yeah, where they want the next guy to do well. Yeah, you know, genuinely. Yeah. Yeah. So um for the for all right, so for these, like a typical stage, I guess, like if it's got pistol in there, pistol targets from 10 to 80 yards? 100. Something like 10 to 100? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

I don't put a hundred yard target out there a lot. Um, you've been to the range, you saw the full-size Caleb, the full-size man. Yeah, so I'll put that out there at 100 yards, just more for a stressor. It's nothing, it's nothing major. Um, the guys get all wound up about that. I'm just like, just aim for the top of his head, you'll hit yeah, top of that, you'll hit body.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

So um we got the pistol plate racks, but you know, typically anywhere from I I wouldn't say 10 yards because we're shooting steel and we don't want to get fragged, and you get fragged quite a bit. Um so probably 20 to 30 yards is our typical pistol target. And then either I start you in pistol or I start you in rifle, but I go back and forth. Um if we start in pistol, I used to have you re-holster hot, but with the series expanding, there was a lot of ranges that did not want to re-holster hot. And I can completely understand that. So we set it down on a table on a on a piece of cardboard. Um, facing downrange. Yeah. Get into the rifle. Um, we'll do a rifle portion, then maybe get back into the pistol, put the pistol back down, back into the rifle. Um a lot of stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

So is most of it stationary? Like you're shooting from one position? No, no. Uh I have you moving everywhere. Uh typical Drew fashion, right? Many positions. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

Um so yeah. Um and this year, I I got a uh there's a little in between the the hundred yard, the far hundred far hundred yard target or zero board up near stage one and the parking lot, there's a path down there and there's a huge bowl.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

And I'm gonna have to the to the that's north, isn't it? Like it's away from the Yeah, it's it's away the opposite direction of the fire line. Opposite direction.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

But it's a it goes way downhill and it's a huge bowl. Unless you're like two revs out, you're you're not gonna send a bullet out of that bolt. But I want what I'm gonna do is instead of instead of moving lateral, you're gonna be going forward. So I'm gonna put cars there, and so you're gonna be running to the next car, shooting, shooting around that car to the next car or concrete block, and you're gonna be shooting around it all the way down in that bowl. And I'm gonna try to do like a three or four minute stage. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:41

Kind of like the grind used to be. The gap grind used to have a grinded out stage.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Yeah, and exactly. Right where you said, you know, you you you shoot a lot and you you pick up these ideas, that's exactly where that's coming from.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So what does what is this like the typical course of fire for the rifle side of the things then? Like close as a couple hundred yards?

SPEAKER_00 36:04

Um well, offhand, we'll do we'll do 80 yards all the way out to 300 yards offhand. And uh thing is guys don't like to shoot offhand at 300 yards. Nope. I don't like to shoot offhand at anything. Um, but it's it's a skill that you need to learn, you know. Um you know, everybody, you know, all these guys say they brag about, you know, they they got that deer at 500 yards on the dead run offhand. Like, all right, let's see if you can hit this full man-sized target standing still at 300 yards. Like, yeah, dude, you're full of crap. You didn't do that. Um, but you know, I gotta say, I used to be one of them dipshits that used to say that too.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

So yeah, like, okay, what was your lead?

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

Like, oh uh, just head out held out in front. Like, maybe you got lucky, but probably at 300 yards of a deer running full tilt. Like, you're I mean, that's probably two mills, three mills, which yeah, which would be uh at least a deer out in front. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

You may have been aiming for the first one and got the fourth one back.

SPEAKER_02 37:12

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

But a a typical, a typical stage, getting back on that. Um, like I would do just like like stage one up there um this weekend. So if anybody hopefully this won't be out by then.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

It won't be out. No, it won't be on time. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Yeah. So we'll do the the pistol plate rack, which is halfway down the 100-yard berm. It's about 50 yards in. So we'll shoot the six plate racks, you'll set, you'll set your all gear in hand, you shoot the six, set the pistol down, face the down range. You will run back to the firing line, turn around. Your rifle will not be loaded yet. You run back to the concrete pipes. Anybody been there, they all know where the concrete pipes are. You load your rifle there, put your mag in, close it. You got three full-size IP six off to your right offhand, and they're anywhere from 60 to 100 yards off and double tapping, boom, boom, boom. And then you got in, you get into the concrete pipes, and this one is one static target about 580 yards, and you got to hit it twice from five different positions, all in 90 seconds.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

Yeah, I mean, you're dialing dope. Uh, I mean, it you can the rifle supported on the on the 580, right? Or the five yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

But so everybody's pretty much running red dots on top of their on their diving boards now. No, so the offhand target, you just use the red dot. Use a red dot. The dopes, the the scope's already dialed. Um okay. That makes sense. Yeah, but by the time you do, you know, I'm old and fat. So by the time I I do that pistol plate rack, and by the time I hit them concrete pipes, I am huffing it. And I'm trying, yeah, I'm trying to control my breathing because every time I'm taking a breath, man, I'm going up over the target. So it's it's challenging.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

So yeah. Dude, that sounds awesome. And all it's uh so basically you just have to clean the stage. What if you leave? What if you don't get it done in 90 seconds? What's your time or is the time just 90 seconds?

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Nope, you you time out, so it's it's 90 seconds plus penalties. Um, so it's 30 seconds for every rifle target you don't engage. It's 15 seconds for every pistol. Uh but if you skip a target, if you skip a target, it you get penalized hard. And people, when I first implemented that, I think it was two years ago, people got pissed because it's full part time plus 30 seconds, meaning you will never catch the field. You know, you just got 120-second penalty. You're you're not going to catch field. What was happening was guys were just sending a shot at that direction, and they were they were winning because it's it it was a hit to move on. And these guys were grabbing super duties that hit two targets all day because they were just sending rounds and they just won that super duty. I was like, oh. So I was like, all right, so now it's a hit to move and a huge penalty if you skip a target. Gamers gonna game. Yep. Yeah, it took me a it took me a season to figure that out. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

Yeah. Let's talk about uh where the series has gone because this is pretty cool. Like I I've I've not not surprised when I talk to folks, but I am surprised when I, you know, I talk somebody out of the region or something like that, and they're like, oh yeah, we're gonna run on one of the guys with gas gun matches, right? And you're like, sweet, yeah. What uh so where um where now can you shoot this style of match?

SPEAKER_00 40:54

So uh Blakely um Florida down in Garena. Robert is this second year. Clinton house. Um so they're running, they're running I think three or four Coleman's Creek. Um Dan Posey was doing it, but I think uh Mark Lee is taking over as a master. Um up until July, you can shoot at Pig River, but after July, um you can't even transport an AR in the state of Virginia. Oh my gosh. Yeah. You know, and I I'm worried about Josh. You know, you know, that's gonna that's gonna put a hurting on him. I mean, they say if you're if you if you're if you're security for the federal government or if you're you're like a LE um contract or whatever, it doesn't apply to you, but man, that's gonna put a hurting on Josh.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

Uh yeah, I didn't I didn't realize that. I mean, I've seen things on Facebook and you know, Google and all that about Virginia and gun laws. It's like, what the hell is going on?

SPEAKER_00 42:01

But well right at the last minute they it was saying you could not transport a loaded AR, and then literally right at the last minute they pulled they pulled loaded out. So now it says you can't transport an AR. You can own one, you just can't you can't leave your house with it. I mean, it'll all get overturned, it'll go to the Supreme Court, but how long is that gonna take? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

Yeah. Uh I'm just yeah, I'm sure everybody's thinking about this, like, well, if I take an upper, you know, transport that, and then I take a lower receiver and transport that, like, is it I mean the lower is probably what they're gonna bone you on. So what um is there any exceptions for federal firearm license holders? No.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

I mean, and no, and as the way the law reads right now, and from my understanding, and most of the gun shops around here, there any any semi-automatic weapon is an assault weapon. So you can't I can't transfer them, I can't sell them. So, you know, you talk about on the answer prayers, you know. I was looking to sell the automotive and and go full retail with a gun shop right here in between.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

And, you know, the the automotive came close a couple times selling, it just didn't. But if that would have happened, I would have probably gone bankrupt because I would have put all my cookies in one basket, and then this law comes by, which I didn't see coming. 65% of the stuff I can sell, she just took right off my shelves. I can't sell it. I can sell a revolver, a lever action, and a shotgun.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

Well bold action, too.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

Bold action, I'm sorry, yes.

SPEAKER_02 43:49

Yep, bold action. Yep, yep. Um but like a like a Glock, is that considered because the semi-auto? Semi-auto.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

That's why you know it's it's extremely vague. What they're saying, what they're calling a a assault weapon, but semi-automatic. I mean a Glock is a semi-automatic.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:10

So I I'm sorry, guys, in Virginia. Um this sucks for you guys. Yeah, I'm moving. I really do feel for you. Moving to West Virginia, so. Yeah, and anything goes in West Virginia, right? That'll not that type of law would never happen in West Virginia. I could even marry my sister in West Virginia. You're not, though. It's your fiance is not your sister. She's absolutely married.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

And then getting back on the schedule, um, obviously the Geisely, the Geisely range, and then MKM. Uh Steiner's cool.

SPEAKER_02 44:48

Steiner's running rear four. Yeah. Which is also crazy to me because he I mean he has a full schedule shooting. And Ken Sinowski and Mark Masenski that that run that mat uh that range. But they all shoot a lot. And then they host regional center fire, rimfire. Now guys like Ascun series. This is great.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

But getting back on it, that's why I won't ever miss one of their matches. It's they do a phenomenal job. Yeah, the coursifier. Yeah, they do. You know, Steiner's been a match director a long, long time. Um and he put down one of the best Corsifiers out there. Um you know, and put a lot of thought into it for sure. Yeah, you know, yeah, and the hospitality is great up there. Um, even when I I'll roll in, my trailer has three out of the four wheels on it. By the time I'm done shooting sundaes, right? I'm set that man. Yeah. By the time I'm done, they they repaired my trailer for me.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

That's right. Yep. Yeah. The wheel had pretty much fallen off in the parking lot, right? Because the bearings were beyond shot.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

Yeah, I didn't even know, man. I got out of my my RV and just happened to look over at the trailer. I was like, man, that don't that don't look good.

SPEAKER_02 46:00

Yeah. Yep. That's right. They uh they fixed that for you while you were shooting a match, right? The two days.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

That's awesome. Mitch and um Boyd. Oh. Um Yeah, okay. Yeah, JC Boyd. They they both, yeah. They went out to tractor supply, picked up the hub, and did all that.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

I love this community, man. You know? That's awesome. That's awesome. So what's uh what's on the uh your schedule then? You said 14 Pro Series matches. Yep. You got them written down. Love it. I got a calendar behind me.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

So I got Clint House next month. Um night I have Vortex. June I have believe it or not, get this. June, I have Pig River, the next one um NDT up in in British Columbia. Then I have my doubleheader, War Rifles, then I have Hornady the following weekend. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so June I'm shooting every weekend.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

Dude, and and you've already done this this year, right? Because what uh so obviously, if you go uh East Coast to British Columbia and then back, host matches, and then Utah for Hornady. That's back and forth across the country. You've already done this, though. Like because you were in Washington, right, at the lead farm? Yep.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

So in January in January I did Texas. Yep. And then in February I did Arizona. And then this month I've done I've done uh Washington.

SPEAKER_02 47:43

Yeah, you were out Washington. Yeah. It's a back and forth that many times. That's crazy to me.

SPEAKER_00 47:49

And I haven't I I love it. I haven't spent any money on a single air pair yet. So just burning up all the points.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

So I love that. Yeah, I love that. I typically try to save all of our points for like any sort of family vacation or you know, if we go home for Christmas or whatever and we gotta get a hotel, you know, like perfect. Yeah, it points is to take care of it, it's like a holiday for me. Yeah, but no, that's awesome. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

Oh, you want to hear the rest?

SPEAKER_01 48:19

Yeah. Then July I got Sheepdog, August I have uh Peterson.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

Back at MPA. September's my match, so you know, I'll I'll run my match, and then October is MPA, and then November's the finale.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

So yeah. I don't know if I'm driving out to the finale yet or not.

SPEAKER_02 48:46

Arkansas?

SPEAKER_01 48:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:48

Well, um, yeah, we're talking about buying an RV and like we keep going back and forth. Obviously, I've reached out to you a few times because you you're you're the R V expert in my life. So uh uh we're talk, we're talking about it, but I don't even know like if we like that Dynamax that we were talking about that could pull basically a house. Um if we drove that to the finale or not. I I don't know what we're gonna do yet, but we usually verbo at the finales just so that we have like a home base and you know we set up computers and printers and all that there because we're getting last-minute certs and printing, you know, the the banquet agendas and all the things, right? But we'll see. Um and I do appreciate your help with the RV search, man. That super she that you were looking at.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

That was uh that was sweet. It'll pull that trailer.

unknown 49:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

It will, yeah. It's got a uh what is seven liter Cummins or something in there that makes a ton of power. Oh no, it's got I think it's a eight nine.

SPEAKER_00 49:43

I think it's the same motor as mine. Eight nine. So you can you can juice that up to to over 400 horsepower. It's and how many foot pounds? Oh, probably 1400. If not more. I mean those things produce a phenomenal amount of torque. I mean, it's it's what they run in the fire trucks.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

Got it. So that makes sense. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

Yep. Yep. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah. So if anybody out there's in the market for an RV, reach out to Drew. Yeah. Steer you down a right path. Which which brands are junk, which brands are pretty good, and what powertrains you want. Yeah. And I can uh I can program them and delete them so they they run for you. Also a good reason to head out to Virginia. Probably the only good reason remaining to go to Virginia, right? That's the only thing, yeah. Yep. Yep. Man. Well, I Drew, I appreciate your time today, man. It's good to see you. I love our conversations. Hopefully, we get a chance to uh shoot a match together this year. That would be awesome. We had a good time at the one day there last year, and maybe we'll be back up for another uh double header.

SPEAKER_00 50:55

Other than other than the one you're shooting here, what is it this weekend you said?

SPEAKER_02 51:00

Yep, uh coming up, I'm shooting Box Canyon. I've never actually shot there. I went to the obviously we had the Pro Series finale there three years ago now. Yeah. And um, that was my first time there. I'm like, man, this would be a great place to shoot. This is cool. Um but yeah, uh other than that, I might try to make one of the MKM matches um this summer. Yeah. Uh depending on um depending on schedule for uh baseball and all that, maybe come out to war. Um that place intimidates me though, man. That that's a difficult place to shoot. Like you gotta be, I think you gotta be a better shooter than what I give myself credit for, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Oh no. I trust me, me too, because I that place humbles me every single time I go up there. Just like get an R V and come on out.

SPEAKER_02 51:48

Oh, I'd love to. I'd love to, man. And that's kind of the plan, right? Like if we end up buying an RV this year, committing to it, like that's the plan. Like, you know, we can we can take the dog, we can take uh take the kids, like we, you know, they have a home base. And war is a great place for that too. Because you can kind of you can kind of be a hundred, a hundred, two hundred yards from the firing line and really comfortable there. And yeah. Camp right on site.

unknown 52:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:15

Heck yeah. Definitely. Man. I appreciate it, man. Thanks for your time. And uh good luck this year with the regional stuff. I would not be surprised you're regional match director again of the year. I'm hoping. So heck yeah, dude. Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

Well, thank you. All right, Ken. Take care.