Curriculum Control: Implementing High-Quality Materials

The gap between K-12 systems and universities often leaves students unprepared for the workforce. Jill Clogston, Director of the A-State Office of Educational Renewal Zone, bridges this divide by aligning state standards with daily classroom execution.

Modern teaching demands strict alignment with High Quality Instructional Materials (HQIM) rather than unverified supplemental curriculum. Clogston unpacks the logistics of implementing standardized benchmarks across multiple school districts. She confronts the operational toll of chronic absenteeism and explains why educators abandon the field over mentorship deficits rather than salary disputes.

For school administrators struggling to retain early-career educators, this conversation provides a direct blueprint to deploy effective residency models. Subscribe and share this episode with a district leader navigating systemic educational reform. What operational hurdle does your district face when adopting a new standardized curriculum?

0:00 Intro and the Education Renewal Zone
5:34 Alternative Pathways to the Classroom
11:15 High-Quality Instructional Materials
16:34 Combating Chronic Student Absenteeism
26:01 Community Partnerships and Feedback Loops
37:22 Preparing Students for Future Workforce Demands

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:09

Hello and welcome to the A State Advantage, the podcast where we explore the people and the programs that are driving excellence in our region and beyond. I'm your host, Heather Nelson. Today we're talking about systemic educational reform and the bridges being built between K-12 schools and higher education. And I am thrilled today to welcome Jill Clockston to the show. Jill is the director of the A-State Office of Educational Renewal Zone, a broad-based P20 initiative that coordinates resources to improve school performance statewide. And I just want you to, I want to say of all of the episodes that I have done in this studio, this may be the most impressive and the longest CV that I've ever seen. However, we're going to be able to squeeze all of the goodness that you do and how your experience and education and all the things that you touch, not just on this campus across the state, in one hour, I do not know, but we're gonna we're gonna make our best attempt. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Well, thank you, Heather, for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Okay, so I think that maybe the best way to start off is to look at um to go kind of the history and talk about the scope and funding. So let's kind of do for the listeners, let's do a high-level overview for those that might not be familiar. What exactly is the education renewal zone and how does your office fit it into the state's you know broader educational landscape?

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Yes, the ERZs got started um in 2004. It was a legislative action. Uh so we have uh a law behind us. Um ASU got theirs office in 2005. So I um preceded uh many great leaders, and then I um became into the role in 2015 and I followed the the wonderful the late Dr. Rick Hux. And um and so we are a bridge, like you said, P20. And in 2004, if people can remember back, it was when uh we had the national legislation of no child left behind. And so there was a lot going on there, and uh our legislators had heard of other states having similar um offices that were connected to a college of education. And so actually, when we got started back in 2004 and 2005, there were 16 education renewal zones around the state, all inside a college of education. And so along about then 2008 or 2009, and the economy tanked and so forth, we all had to tighten our belts. Uh all the all the ERC offices had to reapply, and uh they went down to six. And so currently it is A State, University of Arkansas at Fayetteville, University of Arkansas at Fort Smith, SAU at McNolia, Henderson State University, um, and A State. And so uh we are a great team. We are now under the umbrella at the State Department of the Educator Effectiveness and Licensure Unit. We had been placed in other parts of the department, and then a couple of years ago we were placed uh there. Uh I think it's a great fit because we're all uh connected to an EPP, an educator preparation program. So we can simultaneously work with uh the dean of the college of education, the teacher education chair, uh, as they work with their teacher candidates, and then we can help fill in gaps and provide PD, and then also work with our schools, and it's just to kind of make sure everyone is on the same page, and then the ultimate goal is to make sure that we have our teacher candidates as ready as possible to be day one ready when they go into and get their uh classroom.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

You're right. And just uh in case PD stands for professional developments. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. You have a there's a lot of we do have a lot of acronyms. I used to I used to joke that banking was the worst about acronyms, but maybe education's getting just a wee bit closer. We do have a lot of acronyms. Um talk there's a lot of um one of the things that I didn't know a couple years ago when Dr. SHILDS kind of uh invited me to kind of help on a couple of things here at A State is that there's a statistic out there that he that he loves to quote, and now Dr. White, which is there is an A-state graduate in every school system in the state of Arkansas.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

I've I'd I have like school system or county. And I think it's at least in every county. So we had like 70 counties, 75 counties in Arkansas, I believe. And I said we don't we should broadcast that. Because we educate the state. Yes. You know, we educate the state. I love driving into Little Rock for my meetings and see the big sign that says, you know, A State would welcome you and join the pack. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Yeah. What do you think that that means though, the fact, because there is a long tenured history to be proud of that A State as far as educating educators here across the state. So what is what does that mean for you and the work that you're doing to bring that kind of pride to, you know, you I mean, really there is a case to be made that A State is a is is teaching the state, so to s so to speak.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Well, we um well one thing I thought about that one thing that we are charged with doing as ERC directors is we always um are actively recruiting teachers or you know uh people that we see that have potential. Maybe they are uh already they have a degree in business or they have a degree in science. With you would really make a great teacher. So we do host these uh be a teacher event, you know, how to do that because now a lot of people don't know this, uh, and we we need to do a better job telling this story, but there are so many ways um someone can become a teacher. So if you already have a um degree, then you can go and get a master's of arts and teaching, or there's a program called RPEP, and um uh there's just so many different ways that you can become a teacher versus how I went through and it was four years of college, and then you, you know, did your student teaching. And then now the student teaching is not like it was, you know, 40 years ago when I was student teaching. It's now we have residents now, and we're so excited. I I couldn't tell you the number of how many residents that we have out in the schools, but they are working with an experienced mentor teacher uh that has to uh fit some qualifications and they'll they'll do that for a year. And so it really is a better, it makes them a stronger teacher than after that year. And they're they're finishing up a class or two that they would have, be it at A-state or wherever they are, but this is the first year that all the educator preparation programs um are transitioning uh completely to uh their four their four-year students um going through as a traditional program to be a resident. So they get a lot of mentorship and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Yeah, the buzzword today is it's so crazy when you talk to college students and you say we didn't even know we didn't know what that word was when when I was in school. And today, you know, we're just you know, I d not beating it into them, but but we're str we stress it in all the different areas across campus, like how important it is to have mentors and varied and stuff. And I I love that that is just that's just come into the lingo and the language of degree programs and stuff. That's beautiful. Um speak to real quick, because I think that that you hit a point, and I want to I want to drill that home for anyone listening um in the community that maybe has thought about being a teacher. Like what does, and I know that it would be different depending on what their degree is, I'm sure, but what's that look like if somebody out there is listening and going, you know, maybe I'd like to do a a different career and like to teach. How long does that can you go through an example of how long that would take or what that kind of would look like?

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Yeah, it would depend on the on each person and what um oh program they wanted to go through. RPEP is they would um I'm trying to think what that stands for right now, and I'm caught I'm just having a senior moment, but it is uh where they have some summer training for two summers, but in between those summers, you know, during the school year, they would be in the classroom teaching because they do have um an initial degree and they would be on like a provisional license. Wow. But they have they could call um even my boss, uh Capri Um Bell at the State Department who is in the teacher or educator effectiveness and licensure program, and she could get them hooked up to a licensure expert. Right. But because there's just so many, yeah, everyone has their own scenario. Right. But you know, there are some, like I said, with already having a degree that could go in and start teaching, I mean that's a fast pathway.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

You talk about two years and then a provisional. So for anybody who's thinking who's thought about it, you know, there's a pathway. I told you I would get off uh that's okay off track because um I I knew that I knew in listening to you you were gonna you were gonna you were gonna say things that we needed to dig into. Um when you think about the current statewide initiatives or you know, the department the Arkansas Department of Education priorities, your office in particular handles initiatives designated directly by the Arkansas Department of Education. So what are the key priorities of the programs that your team is focusing on like right now?

SPEAKER_00 10:32

Well, um currently we are shoring up what our uh goals will be this year as we kind of you know transition between, you know, this past school year and as we have started this new school year. Some will probably stay the same. For instance, uh one of the things that I'm I was the lead on this year. We all take a lead, all myself and my five colleagues take a lead on one of the uh initiatives that we have chosen. And then we um but we all help. Uh mine was um uh recruiting and facilitating and and cheerleading uh teachers out in the field, especially second, third, and fourth grade teachers this this past year, to undertake a training that is conducted actually by NIT, the National Institute for Effective Teaching. Um and so they would become lead, no, excuse me, they would become master teachers. There is a lead teacher, but in my case, um we uh I was training those to be master teachers because we need master designated teachers. Um and especially with going into this school year, we had the possibility with with legislation that came out about third grade retention, that if those third graders who uh didn't meet the benchmark in math and or literacy on the Atlas test, our our state um um summative assessment, uh, then they would um they could get retained. And so uh, because it you know, we all know if you are having, if you're a struggling reader when you are in the third grade, it's gonna make it very difficult as you go up higher. So we've got to to uh have it there. And so we've got to have those specially trained teachers. Um and NAT has done a great job. Uh they did some that were in Little Rock, uh, the ones that I facilitated and uh worked with teachers on to help the uh the NAT consultant. Um we have it online, so that way that was less uh trips to Little Rock for those teachers. Um they were done very well by uh the consultants and so um uh then there is some follow-up that we do, and so they have that designation, and so then they um uh they are qualified then to be uh to work uh additionally with those struggling readers uh in the third grade, or if uh if a child got a waiver uh and was able to go up to the fourth grade, then then that fourth grade teacher catches them. And then of course we also wanted the second grade teachers to be involved. So if we can kind of nip it in the bud before they, you know, help them better uh before they even get to the third grade. So just trying to, and then that was one thing we've done. Uh we've also worked a lot with high-quality instructional materials. Um, that acronym is HQIM.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

And what that is is um, y'all probably know, but there are a lot of teachers that go out and and buy their own um teacher resources. They they go onto websites called teacher pay teachers and they look for things to supplement what their classroom book may have. Well, uh it really, but we don't know if that teacher paid teacher stuff is aligned with our Arkansas state standards. And they have to, you know, we need to be teaching what is aligned to our state standards because uh the way it's set up, I mean, that's what they are tested through Atlas every year. And so we need to be teaching what is aligned to our standards, and so with the high quality instructional materials, we know for a fact this is curriculum that is rigorous, appropriately rigorous, um, on grade level and um aligned with our standards. So uh we have hosted and facilitated work with a group called Education First over the last couple of years uh that we made sure that teachers knew how to do this with fidelity. We want to make sure that they understand how to implement uh the curriculum. And it's not to say they can't have their own spin on it. It's not like you do this first and you do that. They can still put their take on it, but we can be assured in that way if you've got the foundation. Yes, and if Johnny from uh Walnut Reef School decides his family moves to Silon Springs, then he can be assured that he's still going to be on grade level materials, you know, entering the fourth or fifth grade over at Silon, like he was, you know, at Walnut Reef schools. And so we we uh uh that is uh a part of all that. We've uh cut several years ago we were involved, and and of course this is something business did for a long time, uh professional learning communities. Right. And just looking at the data and talking about it and analyzing it and looking at the root cause of things. What's the root cause? Why why were these kids, you know, what part of the uh math uh area of fractions were they missing or whatever? And they could really drill down. Exactly. And so the PLCs, and so um um we were involved in that with a company, and we we've really had some really good um results with that, I think, with a lot of schools, and they're still doing that. They may call it something different, like collaborative teams or something like that. But you know, uh it's it's really probably it's something all schools have done that sometimes these new names come along and things like that. Um and we're also involved in a program called attendance works, and that is um looking at chronic absenteeism of students, and um defined as if you have if a student misses 10% of the school year and the school year is 180 days, instructional days, that's 18 days. Well, mama thinks it's uh okay to miss two days a month. Well, that turns out to be 18 days during the school year. That is too much to miss. Right, you know, and so it's it's um finding those students, figuring out um uh why they're missing, what's going on with their families, how the school can help, giving incentives to students. Hey, let's if if if if our class can can uh uh have perfect attendance, we'll have a class party at the end of the month or something, we'll have a pizza party. There's a lot of j inexpensive things schools can do. But that we do have to find out what the root cause is of uh is it transportation? Is it uh the parent has to be at work at at seven o'clock in the morning and then they don't have time to get their child to school, you know, as you know, and it grandma, grandpa taking them to school. So anyway, but attendance works and and and that can kind of lean into also some of the hitting on teacher absenteeism. Right. Because the teacher sets the stage and we all you know, and if a teacher misses too much, then um then the parents or the school that the you know the students think, well, then I don't have to be here as much either. But it's just uh everyone being in attendance uh every day is so important.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

There's so much. It sounds like um just you know, trying to understand like all the things that you and like there's six of you across the state that are that are touching is with when there's changes coming through the legislature, which come through the Arkansas Department of Education, it sounds like your team of six, SEAL team six, is really kind of charged with how do you properly and effectively implement this across the state. Yes, yes, and both on the college, the university level to to teachers, but also it sounds like even on almost like a continuing ed, how do you help the school systems and stuff?

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

So that being said, with so much that's come out just in the last few years, like do you get to take vacations? Yes, I do. But how had how has that team, how had have you and that team juggled, you know, just all the changes coming out? And then I love how you said part of your job is to be a cheerleader because I think um as someone who uh watches you a lot from afar, you are such a cheerleader. Well, thank you. And so that's a perfect description of you. But but how do you keep um people enthusiastic about going into teaching, but also how do you keep the the existing teacher pool excited and not weary with with so many changes? I mean, that that feels like a a really that a li big lift that it sounds like your your team has a lot of responsibility in.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Is that fair? Well, I tell you what though, I was encouraged recently. Um I was at uh a summer um conference that the ADE Department of Education uh provides called the ADE Summit, and it was in Hot Springs, it's in Hot Springs every summer. And I'm looking around the room and I see all these young people, you know, and I'm just it just made my heart feel so good because I'm knocking on the door of retirement and and I I see all these Nobody heard that.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Nobody heard that.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

I see all these young folks, and and it it really makes me feel good. And and um, you know, when I began teaching, I I I taught my first year was in the school year 86, 87. I taught in a little school district called Evening Shade. Yeah, I lived in Batesville and and went to Evening Shade every day. And I I kind of taught how I was taught, you know, taught social studies, okay. And and so, but as teaching has evolved and we've learned more, then these brand new teachers have been through this latest cycle, our latest knowledge of uh of what is effective teaching. And um so they are doing so much better than I ever did as a first-year teacher. I'm I'm looking at these teachers, and I have been in some of the classrooms uh in Jonesboro and just seeing just all the creative and um you know, sitting in on some PLC meetings and and just uh the the great work they do. But you know, I I've always thought that in education we need to tell our story better.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

That yes, it's you're singing you're singing my that's my sweet spot.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Yeah, it is hard work teaching, and I'm not gonna uh you know say it isn't, but it's it's worth it too. And um, but anyway, so that that's what I was saying.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

But we do need to we need to do a better job. And I think even on the university level of of trying to figure out a better way, not not necessarily a better, I just think more. How do we share those stories more? Yes. Um and because there there are so many wins out there, but you know, social media and everything, there's just, you know, it's all the bad news. And you're right. We need to figure out how to better tell the stories. And maybe this is a this is a a start to that, and we can we can think about ways and brainstorming.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Well, and I do think this residency model that we're doing is really gonna help because it's been so long since I student taught. I student taught at West Side here in Jonesboro, and I honestly can't remember if it was a nine weeks or an 18 weeks thing, but it probably wasn't enough, you know. And uh then. But I think that they'll even be better prepared. And but that's the thing is too, they've got to be um mentored even informally their first two or three years, because really that's how we lose educators. Educators aren't leaving because of the pay or things like that. For the most part, they are leaving um because they didn't feel supported. And so, but that is changing, I think, uh uh in in a lot of different ways. But one I think is a residency model, and then with collaborative teams and well, you don't feel like you're the Lone Ranger like you're all alone up there.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Yeah, so I think there's that's interesting too, because you know, we get to have a lot of different people in in the studio, and it's I just want to share with it's interesting that you guys are kind of going to an a year model um because what we're hearing from industry, whether it's talking about accountants or our metallurgy engineers, is they want the internships to be longer. Yes. They what we hear from industry is three months. A summer internship is not enough. And so, you know, education, you're not alone in that saying we need more time because we want to, if we want them to be able to step off the stage with their diploma and be ready to walk into the workforce, they need more time, you know, almost like a simulation of those roles. They need more time in those roles, and then we've got to figure out the way to wrap the mentoring around that somehow. Yes, both in it coming from the outside, but also figure that out from the inside.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

I remember this. I'm in the high school office, and there was a GT job that was available at Walnut Ridge. And so I remember being scared to death of high school principal was going to hear me talking to the superintendent of Walnut Ridge School District, while I already had a job at Valley View, about coming over there and being their GT administrator uh back in like 89 or something like this by now. And so I get over to Walnut Ridge and start doing full-time gift education work, and uh that was where my heart landed. And uh so, and then I met um uh the late Kay Luter, uh, who uh was a GT supervisor over at the co-op at Harrisburg, and she became my mentor and then became my very, very dear friend for um um till till till the day she died. And so um, and so now because of that, I I want to I give I try to give back and I try to mentor as as many teachers as I can informally and and um things like that and just be there uh when they need me and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Yeah, that's fantastic. Okay, I'm gonna try to get back on screen. Okay, so even though your office is housed right here at A State, you do a lot of collaborative work with other colleges in our area. So how do you you know leverage your position to build that cross-collaboration through the partnerships and stuff?

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Yes. Uh I'm glad you asked me that because I I do want to kind of give a shout out to some of the district of some of the other colleges that I do get to work with. Absolutely. One is Carlis Ridge College, as we know, is in Perigold. And um uh uh they were actually a partner uh with a called a community of practice. As I mentioned a while ago, the HQIM project that we did with education first. We had we brought together um, I brought together and all the all the ERC directors kind of got to choose a school district and uh and one of their colleges that they work with. Um I chose um working with Crawley's Ridge College and their um teacher chair, teacher education chair, and then he had some um student teachers over at Truman. And so we I had a Truman School District. We had a couple of central office folks from Truman uh school district, and um our fellow from Crowley's Ridge College and me. So we made up a a community of practice. So then we would all get together that first year, we did that two years ago with the five other uh ERC uh and their teams. It was so it was so synergetic and things like that. And uh because what that what we what we were doing, one thing we did with that project was I said, okay, um one of the fellas um at uh who was literacy, a wonderful literacy specialist at Truman, Terry Flowers, he was on the um on that Truman team. And I said when I called them up, I said, what we need y'all to do is be a sounding board. So bringing you and uh Crawley's Ridge College together and myself, we need y'all to tell us how do we need to uh prepare a better, for lack of a word, product our student to come to Truman to be a first year teacher with you. You know, better so uh in that HQIM setting. So that was that was really good. Uh then uh the second go-around, the second year, which was just this past year, we had alternate route teachers. Um and so uh I mentioned that a while ago, the Master of Arts and Teaching. And so at that time, um, Dr. Joanna Grime was was still um working at A-State, and uh she and myself and um a teacher from uh health, wellness, and environmental science, HWES, the elementary uh school at Jonesboro, or part of my second team, uh cohort uh two, but year one. And so um we and it was perfect because the teacher that the uh assistant superintendent Amanda Sanders had had from Jonesboro had selected was Demarius uh Montoya, and she had been in the ASU MAT program that was taught, you know, and and coordinated, facilitated by Dr. Grimes. And so um, so here again we're saying, okay, what changes might we need to make in our MAT program that we can be um having our teachers go into uh Jonesboro School District or anybody, Nettleton, wherever, and be better prepared. So that kind of uh I love that together what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Because you're asking, you're asking those recent grads or like you you've now you've been through your first year, like what where were you not prepared? Where's where's the gaps? And then we'll just you know, so you can constantly improve that that model. I love that that you've got that all built in. That's fantastic. Um so in addition to directing the ERZ, um, I told you that she has the longest CV I've ever I've ever seen in my life. It's um just unbelievable the accomplishments and all that you've got to experience and educate. And I I probably have a question around that at the at the end that that you're not prepared for, so sorry. Um, but you're also the president of Arkansas Ames Board board and the director of the A-State AP Summer Institute. So, how do those roles overlap um and then to create that larger impact for the community? I see. And also when do you sleep? I'm just I'm just you know asking for a friend, like when do you sleep?

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Um well um um I was asked to be on the board, uh you know, be a board member of Arkansas Ames, and Arkansas Ames has been around for quite a while. Um it was actually started through an ExxonMobil grant. I mean, years years and years ago. And it's it's gone through a couple of different executive directors, and so uh the past uh executive director um who's no longer with us uh had asked me and then um to be on the board. I said I'd be glad to because I knew when it did, I knew that it served teachers in public schools to um uh tra you know train teachers, uh they do a lot of pre-AP uh pre-AP work and just just and um help those AP teachers, advanced placement teachers, they do like uh AP readings and um they look at old tests and try to you know uh analyze those and just better prepare those teachers. Um and matter of fact, um a while back several years ago, it might have been even uh you know how we talk about pre-COVID and post-COVID.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Everywhere, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

I know pre-COVID, we had a couple of um AP uh boot camps that uh I they asked me if they could be on our campus and bring in high school students. And I said, of course you can, you know. Uh and then they came in and brought in some high school students. It was like a week-long train, you know, a day program and uh for a week and just review the AP exam and just get them ready and really get them ready, not only just for the exam, but for the rigor of that AP class they were about to embark on as a sophomore, a junior, or senior in high school. And that was a great program. So I knew all about Ames and then um served on um uh became a board member, and then um um the current president of the board um left and or kind of rolled off. He was a former, he's a superintendent over at Fort Smith, and they said, Well, what I serve. And so I um it just you know, I love doing it. We do have a legislator on it. Uh Dr. And uh our representative Andrew Collins, wonderful guy, um, has kids in school in Little Rock. And so we actually have a business person on the board, also runs a wonderful IT um uh service provider uh type thing in Little Rock, and then we do have um a well, a UALR professor, and so we kind of have a a variety of folks on there. Uh well I actually have uh someone who uh currently works with the State Department of Education on the board, and so it just to support those teachers and um and then but I did work for um several years when I came to A State in 2015. Um I was co-chair uh or co-coordinator of the APSI program here, and then uh the person that was doing that uh kind of wanted to take some things off her plate. I think she was looking at retirement in the few years down the road. And so uh my boss at the State Department and the Dean of the College of Education here said sure it would be a good fit. So then uh from then until the summer of 2025, uh I ran the APSI program where we had teachers, AP teachers or pre-AP teachers, or even someone who was waiting in the wings to be an AP teacher, um, take the week-long class. Uh, and it's it's coordinated through the college board. The college board had to approve A State uh to be a site, and they always did. And uh so but unfortunately with uh the coming of the the latest Learns Act or Learns 2.0 access um bill that came out, uh, then we lost some funding for that, and so um just wasn't gonna be a way for us to be able to physically manage that program and stay above, keep our head above water financially. So right.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

So you've been at A State since 2015. Yes. So 11 years. Yes, really well. You're starting your 12th year. So talk about a little bit about like your A-state story. Like what's it been like to be here the last you know 11 years to be starting your 12th year? You just got a nice new office with a new view. You've got a beautiful view out your window. Um Thank you, Dr. Browser. Yeah, everybody be jealous. Um, but talk about like the changes that you've seen just and how they've impacted you and the and the you know the education school, but also just you know, be a little reflective maybe about the changes you've seen across campus over the last 11 years.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Yeah. Well, first of all, ever since day one, I've had the best support. Um, Dr. Susan Hanrahan was here, and I know she's retired, but she was the the dean of the nursing school at the time I got over here, and she was kind of also interim dean of the College of Education while they were in a little bit of transition. And so she's actually one that hired me. And um, and then they had a couple other interims, and so uh I remember Dr. Hog was uh interim um dean over here for a while, I believe, if my memory serves right. And then um, of course, Dr. Mary Jane Bradley, uh, and then now Dr. Hux, and they've all just been very supportive. Um, but definitely some of the changes is seeing the um being more responsive to the needs of students at all age levels. And uh, you know, we know some students lean in um uh uh at times, and then sometimes they have to take a step back because life happens, and then they uh but through um you know flexible schedule of classes or online classes, things like that. I think um, you know, and and we know it's not a one size fits all for the students here. And um, you know, I'm a graduate, I have both of my degrees here. Um my uh mother uh has her degree from here. I think it was maybe in 1956 or something like that. Uh she's 92 now, and um uh my husband graduated here. Well, he started over in Fayetteville, he ran out of money and came over back to A State, but has his degree in finance from here, and then our son has his degree from here. Um legacy there. Computer and information technology. So uh yeah, so we're big A-state people. Yeah, it's in our blood.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

I think that um we are going to one of the things that we're gonna talk about, and and this show is kind of a a lot geared around catalysts, the catalyst event, the guests that have come, the panelists have come because you know we always say we don't have enough time, a 45 minutes for a panel, you don't have enough time to deep dive. So one of the things we've done with this is not only think about um having panelists that have served come and be in the studio with us and we can deep dive with them. But also thinking about future catalysts, and one of the one of the reasons besides the fact that you have fascinating CV is that one of the panels that we're doing at Catalyst, um, which is November 5th, and uh you can find all the information and buy tickets now, but is talking about that the workforce development continuum that you know Dr. Shields really kind of started um talking about that, which really kind of came from industry saying workforce development is almost too limiting, we really need a you know broader phrase for it, and you know, Dr. White's you know continuing that. And but the hope is to the panel's gonna take that and go backwards now. So we we've kind of gone forwards, but we want to extend backwards into K through 12. Like how are what what are the ways that A State is and can do more when the students are that K through 12 level in preparation for choosing all the different doors that are available to them? Because we do see A State doing a great job of if you want a certificate, if you want what might you might consider a traditional maybe a trade school, if you want to be a welder or any of that, or you need a bachelor's degree, a master's degree, a PhD, or if you need to come back, you maybe you need to take some AI classes or some continuing ed. You know, A-State is really, I think, doing a great job, and the Crest Center is helping with that. You know, shout out to High Troll, the latest gift that announcement. So there's a lot of just all the good works, and so help us kind of what are the things that we need to be thinking about for that panel in November? Um, and we're gonna be announcing um uh some of the panelists uh over the next week or two. But what are the things that we need to be bringing out, you think, because you're a subject matter expert in this, um, that we need to bring out for that room full of 600 plus people from across the state that are thinking about ways to, you know, grow and maybe bring business into Northeast Arkansas and help and collaboration efforts with A-State. So what do we what's what's some of kind of the secret sauce or the thing we need to think about, that connect connectivity between K through 12 and A State?

SPEAKER_00 40:06

Yeah. Well, I think uh if we can get the right person or persons on a panel that really emphasize critical thinking and creative thinking and thinking outside the box sometimes and being flexible and and knowing that what job they what what job someone has now or is training for uh it may uh may not be here in five years or 10 years or or you know, the the the jobs that are in 15 years we don't even can't even think about. We don't even know what they would be right now. And uh but um you know and the reason that I guess probably the reason I thought about that was critical and creative thinking and um communication skills. Um we we do that. Uh that was some of the pillars of gifted education when I worked with gifted education students before I became a supervisor. It was, you know, um, and I also always want to preface this to say I we never in in our working with highly able students, we never think about um, oh, these skills are only for highly able students. They're for all students, but it's just that we might develop those at a higher level than um with our highly able students. But we all need to be critical thinkers and and not believe everything that you know comes across Facebook or Red or something.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

It's almost like you wanted to you want to require all students to take a journalism course so that they learn the you know the all the questions what who, what, where, when, and how. And because, you know, we keep saying critical thinking, but it's just it's almost like ask a question and then ask the next question, you know. Uh huh. Um and I think you know, I had an uh a student in here who's bringing TEDx, Arkansas State University, I think that episode um releases this week, and um he was talking about um AI, and we ended up bantering a little bit about AI, and I'm by no means an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but we got into a discussion about um AI really is the the better it is for you is uh is determined in some aspects by the quality of the questions that you ask. Exactly right. And so I wonder if we're not gonna have some residual benefit of that of teaching students to ask more and better questions. You know? Yes, yes it seems like there's like just been a gap in that where we didn't teach that.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Yes, well, and I tell you, I just saw in the news where New York City schools have decided to ban AI from elementary schools, uh K eight, and not really uh that they the focus there would be on AI literacy and things like that. Right. And then, but to develop those skills before they dive into using AI. Right. Um I don't know how that'll work exactly, but I there was a headline that caught my attention.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

I I did see something. I think that it's just anything that we can do to I think it's just everybody's kind of throwing everything at the wall to go, what can we do in order? And I I did see that headline, and I think somewhere in the first paragraph was it's because we've got to figure out how to help them develop their critical thinking skills. And so what you spoke to earlier is how can we do that? And are there things when you're thinking about that not just for future teachers, but are there things that that in your um experience, what do you think the next thing is that we need to be thinking about for the incoming students? We got a fresh class, the the halls are abuzz. We have a fresh fall class here. What are what are the things that you see coming on the horizon, not just simply maybe for education, but for higher education as far as, you know, how can we all be thinking of how can we do a better job by the students?

SPEAKER_00 44:10

You know, I think just instilling in them to be lifelong learners that when they finish college, that's not the end of their education. Yeah. They have to realize that and and just still have the love of learning, the love of reading and um just to be a a good teammate and be a collaborative nature because we're not we're not little islands, you know, we're not just off by ourselves anywhere. We we you know no one it it just we have to work together and and wonderful have that um that collaborative nature I think and that kind of stuff comes to mind.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

And I do think that that's something we should instill to that whole lifelong learner, but we lifelong learner excuse me, but that we need to also demonstrate for them like the ways in which A State can be there for them through the breadth and depth of their career. You know, if we get that we want them to know like come back here not just because we want you to be a part of football games or be a part of the alumni association but also come back for another a class or maybe you get into a career and you're like I want a different degree or I want to become a school teacher and just that A State has the tools in place or the options for you. I think if we can help instill that too that that we want you we we kind of want to be your school for life in a sense. I think that I think higher ed's got to do a better job of um it's not a criticism but it it's just that the world's changed and you know I think that we want to be here for you know instill that into the students that we're here for the rest of your life to help them wherever you want to go in your career. I think about all the iterations that I've gone through you know same here.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Yeah so absolutely all right um we're over of course because um but and I I do hope that you'll come back and we can talk about other other things because there's so many things you're huge in the Rotary um uh club here in Jonesboro you're such an active member of the community and so there's all these things and so I want to I would love to have you back and talk about the different things it's great to be a member of the Rotary and one of our pillars is literacy and so we do a lot to uh provide books for the library public library here in Jonesboro uh um and reading um a a time or two a year at the schools and the backpacks right now we're collecting um items to go in backpacks to to one of our school districts um that uh that we partner with and so it just it does mesh well with with what I there is a red strain with my education there's a red strain connecting everything that everything you're touching and I think what a beautiful life that that um I love it you you have and that you that you're living here.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

All right so I just want to say that um everything that you're doing the work that you're doing it's all so vital not just to Arkansas State University and to the graduates and the students that are coming up but obviously to the state and so grateful to have you here right on campus and to have your expertise and also that you know you're you're getting all that information quickly and you're here to help disseminate that out across the campus of the changes that are coming. So um and thank you to our listeners who for turning into another episode of the A State Advantage if you want to know anything about um the Education Renewal Zone or A State Advantage or Catalyst Northeast Arkansas that's coming up in November or anything about Arkansas State University please go to astate.edu and you can use the search bar. It's a great website you'll get to all the things that you need. So until next time I'm Heather Nelson thank you