Growing Your Practice feat. Madison Levine | Levine Hearing

Running a hearing healthcare practice is complex and ever-changing. In this episode, a second-generation hearing pro talks about her journey of building a successful private practice. Madison Levine shares practical insights about growth opportunities, enhancing your service delivery model and engaging with the community to build awareness of your business. She’s also an ambassador for Starkey’s Listen Carefully initiative and talks about the benefits of getting involved.    

Link to full transcript

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to Starkey Soundbites. I'm your host, Dave Fabry, Starkey's Chief Innovation Officer. I'm really excited for today. Our guest is a second-generation professional in the hearing health care industry who founded her own practice in Charlotte, North Carolina. Madison Levine is also an ambassador for Starkey's Listen Carefully initiative, which helps educate elected officials and leaders about best practices around hearing health care. Today we're going to get her perspective on the health of the hearing industry and also get her to provide some tips for providers on how it is that they can enhance their relationships with their patients and communities. Madison, it's so great to have you on the podcast today. I've been a big fan. You're a force of nature, and really we appreciate your taking the time to spend with us on today's episode of Sound Bites.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Thank you. I am so happy to be here and I'm honored. I'm excited to be interviewed by you. I'm thrilled.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Well, let's start at the beginning. As I said, you're a second generation hearing healthcare professional. You started in this industry really as a kid and uh and have been now involved for five or six years, let's just say. But uh, you know, I know that that your mom purchased her practice initially in your hometown of Macon, Georgia. And talk a little bit about the origins of your mother, you know, as a business owner, and uh, and then also what sparked your interest to decide to follow in her footsteps.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

I always looked up to her as a business owner. I think she really took that on as an identity that was really important to her. And being a member of her community, I mean, all of us know when you're in hearing healthcare, you are intimately involved in your community. And you're learning deeply about people's lives, sometimes more than their primary care physician. You're seeing them more hours per year than any other doctor that they're seeing. Um, growing up, my mom would pick me up from school, take me to her office where I would do my homework in the back, and I got to see the impact that she was making. Um, when I went to school, I went in a different direction, as many kids do. I didn't know for a while that this is what I wanted to do. But actually, my husband is the one who encouraged me to go shadow her. He felt like it was a really fascinating industry. It was very heart forward, and he felt like I had a lot in common with my mom. And so, as I was leaving one industry I didn't want to be in, I went and shadowed her, and I just immediately felt this click. It was like, this is what I'm supposed to do. So I came back to Charlotte. I didn't get to study under her, I was already in North Carolina. I picked the person that I felt like was gonna be the absolute best as far as teaching me. He'd been teaching for 30 years, and I wanted a mentor like my mom. And so I went after him, got the job, and like you said, I started in the industry young, and I also started my own business young. I was only with him about two years when I decided to open my own office, young and naive.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

That's awesome. So much there. Thank you for sharing that background story because I think it's really interesting because many uh uh audiologists and hearing instrument specialists kind of wish that their children would follow along in their footsteps while also wanting them to find their own way. And it's interesting where you started and where you were planted. You grew in a different direction, but then found your way back.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

And back who she was probably the most surprised of anybody.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Because I think because, like you say, they always you want your child to maybe want to follow in your footsteps, but then you also you don't want to get your feelings hurt. So I think she just said, Oh, she would never be interested. No, no.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Yeah, more almost defensively kind of saying, Oh, yes, you you you wouldn't want to.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

And it was an amazing way, you know, kids you know, kids have this independent streak that happens through teenage years, college years. Me to circle back and then for me to have this mentor relationship with her. I mean, I was calling her three times a day about I mean, cost of goods and billing and uh how to handle this patient. And it was an incredible change to our relationship.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Yeah, there's no greater pleasure, I think, as a parent, to be able to not only see your children mature and find their way, but then also to be able to have you come home, if you will, to that industry where she has expertise and could offer that guidance is yeah, the best of both worlds. And so uh interesting then that you decided and to make that bold decision after only a couple years after you had made the decision to come back to the discipline, to go out on your own. Um, and you said, you know, young and naive, what were some of the early missteps, if you don't mind sharing, that that you found where even even with the history that you didn't know all the answers?

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Oh my gosh. At that point, you know, having never worked for myself, you can imagine there's so many things figuring out how to how to negotiate insurance contracts, how to keep up with billing and sending statements, um, how to employ people and how to manage those relationships. Those are all the normal things that go along with any business, I think. Um but looking back, I also having her as my mentor, it set the bar to me pretty high for what I wanted to achieve to copy her. And that was a really good thing. Um what she did was she really created a lifestyle business that was beautiful. She was able to spend afternoons with us, she was able to move her schedule around for vacations. That's what I aspired to. And so the first few years, um I was building just towards that goal. And I had two babies during that time, and I managed to take two maternity leaves by hiring on another provider. But there came a point where I was surpassing where my mom had been, and I didn't know who to look to next. I felt kind of alone in the industry, and something I wish I had done early on is that I had connected with a community bigger than just her. Um, and it took me some time to find those people to look up to. But I think having somebody to chase, to emulate, to use as a mentor, that is what has helped me get to the growth that I'm at now.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Excellent. Well, and you mentioned early in your opening remarks that when you choose this discipline in your community, you have an intimate relationship. Everyone starts to recognize you as the person devoted to hearing and hearing health care. Uh, I can tell you that stimulated a memory in me. Years ago, when my daughter was young and I worked at Mail Clinic, I'm surrounded by world experts in all of these different disciplines related to healthcare. But at the time that my daughter was young, personal sound listening devices first were starting to become popular, and kids were getting headsets and things, and all of the parents wanted, they knew I was the hearing guy, and they wanted to know, you know, how loud is too loud. And so they were constantly asking me for guidance as to whether their children were at risk of noise damage. Do you have any other you you talk about this intimate relationship being known as the hearing person? Are there any memories that that uh uh were triggered by that remark or that that led to that remark?

SPEAKER_02 8:04

I get those questions all the time, like you do. Like, how loud should this be? How should I clean my ears? All those, all those kinds of things. You know, I from the very beginning, I wanted to get so embedded in the community. I went to every health fair. I was just giving out free hearing tests anywhere that somebody would host me and had a little room for me. And getting to answer those questions for people, even when it was just it was a free setting, it was just here I am to provide you with something, asking nothing in return. Um, I think that is what started to elevate my, you know, notoriety in the community where people did know me as the ear lady, whatever. There are worse things.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Yeah, oh absolutely. I completely agree. So if you don't mind me asking, how long have you been in your private practice now then?

SPEAKER_02 8:58

So we're just coming up on eight years.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Eight years, okay. So talk a little bit about the changes, maybe from when you were shadowing your mother to then eight years ago to now, some of the changes maybe for the better, some of the challenges in the way that you've had to pivot uh from the way your mother did business.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

My word of the year last year was pivot. This year is just growth. Um, you know, she worked in a more rural area, and when I started out those first two years, I also did the same. And I saw such a drastic difference when I moved after those first two years, I moved into opening my own practice in a much more urban area. The demographics were completely different for the people that were seeking hearing health care. That shocked me, and so the whole business plan that I had written, I had to rewrite. It didn't quite look like I thought it was gonna look. Um, so when I first started practicing, I was seeing people with much more severe hearing losses, many who had worked industrial jobs and they had noise exposure. And they were in a pretty bad way by the time that they came to me. When I moved into the urban area, I was getting much more people in suits, business bankers who had very mild loss, but they were feeling very affected by it and they were ready to get help earlier. Um, and that stayed consistent throughout the last eight years of this that I've been in this practice is um we treat a lot of mild losses and we change lots of lives. And that took me a little bit, those first couple months, to realize that it wasn't up to me to necessarily judge the amount of impact that their hearing loss was having on them and to stop being surprised. If it was impacting them, I had a way to help them and they were thrilled.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Yeah, I've said for a long time that you know you don't know your patient until you know your patient. So many times, particularly with young professionals, I see them start thinking already when they're doing the audiologic workup, they're thinking about, okay, what what device am I going to fit? What technology? They're they're pre-conditioning based on what the limited interaction they have with the patient without really understanding what the patient's fears, concerns, attitude, you know, stigma, all of that. And that just really takes time. And it takes establishing trust, as you said, in your community, establishing trust in your knowledge about what it is, how it is that you can help them. And then really, I've also said two ears, one mouth. You know, uh, I try to listen more than I talk. And it sounds like that was valuable, invaluable sort of to your experience as you transition from this rural environment with predominantly noise-induced loss, one set of conditions to this urban area where maybe even mild to moderate hearing loss, but people were feeling significantly impacted by the degree of that loss. So you couldn't just look at the audiogram, you got to know what their concerns are.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

You are so right. And that two ears, one mouth, oh, that's something that I have tried very hard to nurture in the audiologists that have come to me and come to work for me. Most have been very young early in their careers. And, you know, in giving them that coaching, the way that we aim to counsel patients is listening way more than we're talking. And oftentimes, the more that you are proud of what you know and you spout it off, the less that they care and the less they feel that you're trying to help them. Um and they see that their help rates go up significantly when they talk less, which is good.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

So um let's talk about um, you know, let's talk about the impact of third-party pay and over-the-counter hearing aids. How have you you said last year that was your word of the year? I'm assuming some of that pivot was related to third-party payers, the impact of OTC starting to become a reality. Um, do you see it as an opportunity, a threat, or both?

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Oh. My word pivot actually wasn't addressed to either of those.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

I but um going directly to your question, I really see opportunity. I mean, I have not been severely affected by either of those things. Um, OTCs, in my opinion, have had no impact, at least no negative impact on our business. Um, third-party payers, I think that there are areas of the country where people are getting strangled by them. And I think that it is very, very difficult to operate in some areas of the country effectively, and they've had to morph their business models in order to handle it, and I think that's possible. You just have to be ready to pivot in order to make a service model that's gonna work, and you're gonna get paid what you deserve. In my area, the third party payers have not been a huge issue. We have people that pick us every day instead of going to the clinic that takes the third party. And I know that doesn't work for everybody, it depends on where you are. My model has been to deliver a very high level of service and quality. And in my pretty affluent area, people are willing to pay for it.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Well, because they trust you, you've established and identified yourself as an expert in the community. So I think that's kudos to your hard work and dedication to that. But I'm curious then, you said neither example that I gave you was your pivot. What was your pivot?

SPEAKER_02 15:05

I moved from a retail model to a medical model last year. And some of that was probably in response to some of the changes going on in the industry. I wanted to have more ways to serve people, to not take away anything from our hearing care, but to keep adding on complimentary services. So I'm an HIS and I hired my first audiologist uh almost three years ago, and then another. And now we have we have two fourth years with us this year that just started a couple weeks ago.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Um, we just brought on a doctor of physical therapy a couple months ago. So we went from just hearing care to also vestibular and physical therapy, and it has been really great. They are feeding each other. It took a lot of preparation. Um, but last year was a really big leap for me in terms of Medicare.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

Moved offices, went from 1,100 square feet to almost 5,000, which we have not filled out. We're about half full, but I want to have I'm gonna build the Death Star. I'm gonna be like one Mondo huge location before we open another one. And I believe that we are building something so great that we are able to attract the people we need to feed it and provide them something that they're not getting somewhere else.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

I I love your reference to a Death Star, wanting to build one big office before you go to a second. I mean, I think in many cases, young uh professionals, private practitioners really identify their success with multiple locations. And I'm reminded of Steel Magnolias, where Dolly Parton at the end of the movie, she says, I'm a chain, you know, when her husband uh got the second office. But I think so many times people, and maybe this is an influence from your mother and your mentor, um, where when you go to two offices, it's probably the most important and most precarious decision that a lot of people make because overhead goes up, um, you know, personnel issues become more challenging. And I think building that death star in a single location is so important. And and but then also, you know, you're not ruling out developing the Death Star and then going on to another location. But I think the change that you made, such a bold decision to move for more retail into medical practice, not the least of which your dependence more on service and and working with balance, which is a huge growth area. We know hearing and balance, of course, are inextricably integrated, and that this issue on balance is an area where of opportunity, as people get older, they also elevate their risk of falls along with their in uh increased risk of hearing. So kudos to you on that.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Thank you. It's a big lift.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

I mean, as anybody who is, you know, an entrepreneur, a business owner knows when you go through big changes like that and you add lines of service, I was in a pretty comfortable position before I decided to push the chips in and go bigger. And I I would tell everybody that it was the best decision that I made, but it was like going into a startup again.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Yeah. It's like the old Baz Lerman song where sunscreen, where one of the lines in it that is one of my favorites, is do something every day that scares you. It's it sounds like last year you did something every day, the entire year that uh that scared you, but uh look where you are now. So congratulations.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

So now I want to uh pivot since I've now used it three times, but you you know, you just talked about how your practice, you made this, you adapted, you had this new vision to transition from more retail into a medical model, incorporating both balance and hearing. Um, what can you share about that journey as well as how it is that you've been so successful at building an online community to support that growth in addition to the organic growth that comes from being visible in your community?

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Yeah, I think that plugging in a new line of service can be very intimidating. You don't know where the leads are going to come from. And it's something that I really enjoy and I think I'm pretty good at. Um, I have written several business plans through the years, like I referenced. I know there are people that say, ah, don't write a business plan, just hold your breath and go for it. I really strongly disagree. I believe you have to write something down and you have to have at least a semblance of what you think it's gonna look like. So when I decided to launch Vestibular, I did align with the American Institute of Balance. They helped me immensely with getting a template of something that had been done before. I'm an HIS, so I was coming from no knowledge, and there may be audiologists that have done it before and uh in other practices, and they say, Oh, I know how it works, and they may not need as much support as I felt like I needed. Um but taking a model that worked and then refining it also to make it work for my practice.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

For your practice, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

I I couldn't have taken it just the template that I had. I had to keep developing it. Um but I think what has happened in us doing both of these services is it has completely changed the way that the community views us. They knew that we were the hearing people, but now we're the audiology group, and we are getting so many more physician referrals. I'm getting asked to speak on platforms that I wasn't getting access to before. I'm in, you know, the independent physician network in my city. Um it's like it really going from retail to medical changed the game as far as who my colleagues really became.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Um, and that for me changed who my community was as well and the messaging that I get to send out there, whether it's on my website, my Google ads, my social media, my radio, my print ads. I believe in layered marketing. I don't think one thing is a silver bullet. Um, but I watch my numbers very closely and I know how much I'm spending per month on each medium and how many patients are coming. From it so that I can keep moving around the pieces as I need to.

unknown 22:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

And I would imagine, in like you said, as a hearing instant specialist making this bold move into balance, you had a lot of people telling you, well, you can't do that. What makes you think you can do that? And by having the presence of mind, then to hire people, uh, audiologists who can assist you with that, you have the vision, you have the overarching view for where the practice is going, but then also having the humility to say, okay, you know, uh, we're we're gonna work on this together is really um uh music to my ears because although hearing aids have been my first professional love balance, uh, when I was at Mayo, uh, you know, I had the pleasure and privilege to work with a lot of experts in the area of vestibular. You know, I think it's one of the areas that's really fun too, in that, you know, we can really treat patients you think of with benign positional posture uh vertigo and and knowing how to do the assessments and do the treatment and becoming regarded as the expert in the area may not be for everyone, but it's very clear you've made this work. And uh and it's very impressive uh to think about how it is that now you're likely uh really identified in that community, as you said, with getting referrals from other physicians from other practice areas, et cetera. And so what a bold initiative, and congratulations to you for that. And then raising awareness in the community for that.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

Well, and I it was scary, right? You're right. Coming from being an HIS, you know, I have had my own self-doubts, as everybody does. And when you're in an industry where um there are some things within my scope and things that are not within my scope, it was so important to find people who were going to give me really good advice, advisory. Um, you know, being able to elevate one of my lead audiologists here to be our clinical director so that she is really overseeing that vestibular work. It's important to me that the patients are getting the appropriate care, and I'm not the right person to oversee that type of work. And I know it. Um, but getting it out in the community, I have been hustling my little tail off the last few months. I have gone into dozens of medical offices to bring in lunch, just like a drug rep would. So, you know, for years I would go to the front desk and I'd drop off cookies and try to get an appointment and I couldn't get past the front desk. And this year I really just threw that out the window, and I'm going direct to them and saying, Hey, I want to buy you a whole team lunch, just like the drug reps do. You're scheduling four lunches a week, they're thrilled that it's somebody that's not trying to sell them drugs.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

And you're getting an audience with them, and you're you're you're talking about the impact.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

And they are they see me as a colleague, and they don't have good resources for either hearing or dizziness. You ask them how often they're referring, and it's rarely for either, but you know that they're seeing tons of patients with both with both those issues.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

For sure. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

Um, and so there's a lot of physician education that's going on.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Yeah, and and I think you know, we all have self-doubts. And uh, you know, I've struggled with imposter syndrome for years and self-doubt, but you can't let it paralyze you. You used it to motivate you and then recognize what pathway you were going to take, and then it's sort of executing on that and figuring out what's gonna work best. What sort of online tools, uh ancillary to that, are you using to educate, raise awareness, uh, identify have people identify you as the as the source of where they can go get information and treatment?

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Yeah. I started with a lot of attention on Facebook the first few years, and I made a shift towards more attention on Instagram, actually, the last few years. And people might think, well, our hearing demographic is the hearing demographic, is that the primary place that you're gonna find them on Instagram? There are plenty of people who are in the 55 plus age group that are there, but I also am focusing on vestibular and ear cleaning and things that have broadened the age group that I'm trying to reach. So I am looking for them where they are in these younger demographics. Um my website is my front door. Most people are going to see that front door before they see my physical one.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

And so I put a lot of attention into curating the look of the website and the education that's on it. I'm really heavy into video. And so I'm filming about every other week right now content that is used for Google AdWords, that's used on the website, on social media, paid advertising for all of those. But also, I'm putting together playlists on YouTube, private playlists, to be able to send to patients when they have questions. Here's my answers to all of that. Curated directly for them. And that has gotten a really incredible response from people.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Look, personalization and curation for specifically what they're looking for is so important. And people don't think about that, they just do sort of a broad-based information instead of being able to curate for specific areas, specific concerns. And I think that's so smart.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

It's different. You can just say, hey, go look at my YouTube.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

But then they're having to dig, and the whole point is that you're the professional and you know what they need. If they're only looking for custom devices, you can send them a playlist just about all the FAQs for custom.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Brilliant. Brilliant. Well, and as you know, um Starkey is also extremely interested in this area of fall risk. Um, you know, we were the first in the hearing aid industry to introduce devices that have sensors built into them so that if someone is at risk of falling and has hearing loss, that they can notify three trusted contacts regarding their uh if the unlikely and hopefully rare event where they fall. And can also uh that person can then call them or text them or see on a map where they were when they fell. And, you know, we've had to educate many practitioners because they think falls are just for older people. And I've got several friends who are hearing care professionals who also had hearing loss and and never enabled the fall alerts, and then they suffered a fall, and now they've become our best advocates in this area because they realize it's any hearing loss, even a mild degree of hearing loss, raises the risk of falls. And you know, we're really on a path where fall detection is great. Um, and it really gives that peace of mind to family members and individuals who want to live independently. But we're that's not the end game. We're really working to assess fall risks, to do training exercises, to help prevent falls before they occur. So stay tuned. I think we're gonna be able to stay aligned with your long-term vision in terms of the assessment, treatment, follow-up, and really helping people hear better, live better, and connect with that strong comorbidity between hearing and balance.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

I love it. I think that we have been so aligned. I am just so impressed with what Starkey has done. Um, you know, me going into a more medical model, it has felt very aligned with what Starkey has done as well. There are other manufacturers that have not looked towards the holistic health viewpoint. And I think that's why we especially love the Starkey products for that.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Well, thank you. Um, I do want to talk a little bit. We're we're uh I knew this conversation would go fast and we're already running out of time, but um, I want to talk a little bit about the advocacy initiatives. You've already identified several ways that you're doing this, but you are a listen carefully ambassador. And talk a little bit about the way, why it is that you um agreed to participate in that. What sorts of things so far have you have you done? And uh and where do you see this going?

SPEAKER_02 30:54

This is just it's another example of Starkey, in my opinion, really leading the way in an area that might not, that others might not have even thought that they could have an impact in. Having a national organization like this, where you've got people across states, across different types of cities, you've got rural, you've got urban, bringing all of their concerns together. Um, we have quarterly meetings, and it has been so impactful to hear from colleagues across the country what are the primary concerns that they're having, um, related to whether it's third parties, OTCs, legislation that looks like it could be harmful to the patient. Um, and just the things that have already been accomplished through this group have absolutely made a difference in patients' lives and safety. And so when when I got the ask about it, it was very easy to say, oh my gosh, I would love to be a part of it and I want to have a voice in it as well.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Yeah, we think we, you know, we've already had seen and heard from listen carefully, ambassadors who, as you said, they've developed their own mosaic, their own fabric across every state to ensure that as legislation is introduced to improve, let's say, accessibility and affordability to technology, that we don't see unintended consequences from some of that in terms of license law changes or the way it is that uh access, particularly as you said, in rural areas, might be restricted where we know there's a shortage of practitioners across the board. And I really do believe in many cases it was an unintended consequence of that improving accessibility to the technology, that if we didn't have this network of professionals involved with Listen Carefully, uh there could have been damage to patient care associated with that. So thank you for that. And and you know, another area we're really proud of with Listen Carefully is our partnerships with um uh Special Olympics. Recently I had the privilege of going to the World Games uh in Berlin. And um and another role for some of the Listen Carefully ambassadors is their agree for those who say, well, I'm not, I'm I'm I'm not interested in politics or legislation. And another way that people can be involved with Listen Carefully is to uh participate if an athlete. We did the world we did the world games this year, we did the U.S. Games last year, and fit hearing aids, state-of-the-art hearing aids on athletes. Um one of the most sobering statistics for Special Olympics is 30,000 athletes say that they have a hearing loss or hearing problem. 83% have not had so much as a hearing test. So we're ensuring and partnering with Special Olympics to get hearing tested. But then importantly, rather than giving them a voucher and saying, good luck, God bless, we're fitting them if there's no contraindications. And most importantly, hooking them up with someone in the local community and being able to partner in that way is another way that you know we can tie the impact of what it is that you do, give you the feels of working with some of these uh athletes who otherwise have largely uh their hearing and balance concerns have been ignored and giving that opportunity to make an impact on their lives. So lots of ways that people can become involved.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

I love that. I love that. And and as far as the local community, you know, I know that in my area there's been some work to get some local legislators into the office in order to see what the impact looks like on the ground. And I'm very much looking forward to hosting some of our local legislators for that. Um, and I know that that's happening across the country. And until they come in and they get to see it, most people don't have exposure to what hearing health care even looks like. No, so the assumption, I think, by people on the street would be why can't you just pick one up at Walmart? Right, right? I mean, seems like you would just plug it in and go, right? There's just so much to see behind the scenes to educate people.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

Yeah, and like you said, I mean, OTC, you know, if it's another channel that provides a way to increase adoption rate for hearing aids, that's great. But I'm not afraid of OTC as a challenge. I see it as an opportunity to raise awareness. Hearing loss is uh often an invisible disability. People don't realize, as Helen Keller said, that vision brings in the beauty of the world, hearing connects us to each other. The way that you're extending your business, your practice to use hearing and balance and then connect to other comorbidities is, I think, just it it really is an example of not being paralyzed by fear in the face of threats, but thinking about how it is that I can boldly move to my vision, as you've done with the pivot and now growth for this year. And I think you're a shining example of forward thinking and really growth opportunities to serve your patients, your customers in ways that that um is very creative and and then also executing on it. So congratulations to that.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

Thank you. Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

And to our listeners, thank you for listening andor watching. If you're watching on our YouTube channel, um, and uh we really want to hear from you too. First, if you like this episode, please rate us, please subscribe, please share with your friends, your network, your families. Uh, get the word out there. If you have ideas for future content that we should cover in Soundbites, please email us at soundbites at Starkey.com with ideas. We'd be happy to bring other experts in the area uh uh on, like Madison. And um, we'd we'd love to hear from you sincerely. So at this point, uh we're out of time for today, and I just again express my gratitude for your participation in Soundbites.