Growing Opportunities for Hearing Healthcare Professionals

Starkey President and CEO Brandon Sawalich stopped by the podcast this month to highlight growing opportunities for hearing healthcare professionals to help more people than ever before. This May, which is the first Better Hearing and Speech Month since the FDA created a new category for OTC hearing aids, Sawalich reflects on how hearing healthcare professionals can take advantage of OTC as a steppingstone towards greater awareness about hearing health. He and Dave also chat about Starkey’s latest hearing technology, Genesis AI, and how it stands up to the competition.

Link to Full Transcript 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to Starkey Soundbites. I'm Dave Fabry, Starkey's Chief Innovation Officer. Now it's May, which is Better Hearing Month, and I can think of no one better to speak on this topic than Starkey's president and CEO. Brandon, you for 29 years have been thinking about hearing 247-365. So it's appropriate that you be here to sit and come back to the podcast to talk a little bit about better hearing.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Thanks, Dave. And I I appreciate it because yes, I've grown up in the industry. Yeah, it has uh I thought about it for uh 24-7-365 or 29 years in coming June with with Starkey. But what's great about it is like the last couple of years, it's it's now more forefront. People are thinking about it, they understand it. It's not just about a hearing aid, it's about hearing health.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Right. I mean, you know, we we wring our hands a little bit and and uh there's been an an awful lot, you've been a very calming force to the industry and to Starkey during the OTC uh era, as I call it, you know, which can't kind of coincided with the pandemic. And a lot of hand-wringing, and people got worried about what's gonna happen and this and that and the other thing. And you've been sort of, you know, remembering that caring can't be commoditized, that keeping a steady hand and focus on the patient is gonna mean that there's plenty of business for all of us. And and so far, um, you know, I I think your predictions have been pretty spot on.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Well, I think, well, I know it's you know, thank you for the calming force because it's there's times where it's probably more frustration when you read about the misinformation or you see the pictures of how they're depicting hearing aids and hearing technology in 29 years, and I won't speak for yourself, but you've dedicated your life to of you know helping people, and it's an insult, is why I look at it. And I don't say that publicly to be demeaning to people because some people just don't know. But you know, what we know from our experience, right? We're we've been here long enough, we know the psychology of the hearing impaired, we know our customers, and it is about caring, it's about better hearing, not a piece of plastic, and it's about the service and the care for that patient. And, you know, we had the predictions, and you never want to say, you know, I told you so, or yeah, I was right, but we've seen this time and time again. It just had a bigger audience and a bigger advertising.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Yeah, and I I think if there's a good thing that came out of this, you know, 40 years this year, uh I'm I've been an audiologist, and one of the things is it's been a month what what month? Uh I guess technically July. So yeah, when I graduated, 40 years. So, you know, I think one of the issues is for my entire career, I've had to arm wrestle people to get them to acknowledge that they have a hearing loss and consider use of hearing aids, a seven to ten year delay. And if anything, um this issue of the focus that began in the Obama administration, continued in the Trump administration with the signing of the OTC bill, and then when President Biden ensured that the FDA got the final regulatory ruling and approval through, it did put us on the map. Now we're in the conversation, as you said, over the last few years. Hearing and the awareness for better hearing has never been higher.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Right. And, you know, I I there was a a moment, I think it was around 2016 for me, um, when everything it was just happening, right? And you're trying to educate, you're not you don't want to be against it, but you hear what people are saying, and you're trying not to be defensive and all of this. But then I had a moment where I realized, you know what, use this to our advantage.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

And it really became clear to me, and it was, I believe, January 6th, was it 2022, last year, when uh President Obama um, excuse me, President Biden was in the Rose Garden and talked about, you know, the OTC and going to get that through, and and that's fine. But that would, that's that's national awareness. All right. So here's OTC, but use that as a stepping stone to educate. And we'd been doing that, doing it before, but it really brought attention where we could have conversations with national media. We were having conversations with uh federal agencies and other agencies about hearing health and the FDA, and they were productive conversations because both sides, and you were there with me, yep, you know, 2015-16, where you know the hands were crossed and everybody's kind of figuring out what's going on. And uh Starkey stepped up through a lot of team effort, HIA stepped up, but Kate Carr and the team there, and came together with Barbara Kelly, H L A. And there became a consensus of what is right, what is wrong, and there's sometimes going to be just good enough. So it really started off from a policy to a campaign of education, and it's worked out. You know, I and for the good, um, I think for us in our business, because we're here to help people, but also the the negative is the misinformation that's out there.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Yeah, I mean, even last month I I was on the local television, uh, one of the local television uh affiliates, and I brought along some uh historical hearing aids, if you will. But unfortunately, in the context of that, one of the a lot of people don't realize that hearing aids were the very first medical device to incorporate transistors at the time that they were developed in the 50s. Look like a big shrimp or banana behind your ear. And unfortunately, a lot of people still think about hearing aids in that matter. You you you you know you you mentioned it's not just the plastic behind your ear, it's carrying, but people still think of this large, unsightly uh device that stigmatizes hearing loss and the use of hearing aids.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Well, the internet's not going away. That doesn't help us when you look at images. Also, I think there's there is an opportunity. I don't think I know national media, um, you know, the big three, whether it's you know, with uh CBS, ABC, um, and NBC, and then you know, Fourth Beaten Fox and others that are doing news, is having pictures, just images of hearing updated images that you know are relevant to what's going on today. And they want to. I I do believe that it's just getting that, building those relationships. And then what's I've been surprised about with OTC is the quality, because we knew it it'd be touch and go, but the type of products that we saw 13 years ago, right, 20 years ago, as PSAPs, yeah, are even a step further back from then because of the plastic and and the it's just it's that's the misinformation that gives hearing aids a bad reputation.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Yeah. And you know, and and at the same time, so to put the positive spin on it, in the sense that if OTC helps address uh hearing loss for a person to shorten that seven to ten year delay for entrance into the position rather than sets it back, if it provides an on-ramp into prescriptive care or for those who can handle it, if it is a solution for them, um, great. You know, then accessibility and affordability has been achieved.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

And that's both the positive and the negative. There's a positive on-ramp and then there's a negative on-ramp. Coming in complaining versus, hey, you know, what is this OTC? And I am interested in hearing health. So, which is really why we've stayed the course as you know, you and others have been instrumental here at Starkey to getting us to where we're at today with premium hearing technology that is right for the patient. It's not about OTC. Yeah, you know, that's somebody that's okay, maybe we'll try it out. But hearing health is much bigger than an over-the-counter uh acronym.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Yeah, absolutely. And anything that increases the adoption rate for the 430 million 430 million that have hearing loss worldwide today, expected to get up to 700 million or more by 2050. Um, and the adoption rate around the world, no matter where you are, is less than half in every country uh where hearing aids are available. And in many areas, much lower than that.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

And just think 30 some odd whatever years, you'll be in the industry again. Close to a billion people need hearing help. We're a great industry. I mean, it's an aging population that you know it drives us every day.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

I don't see an end in sight. I used to think that the industry would peak in 2030, 2030. I don't think so. I think you're thinking at a whole new demographic and a whole new opportunity. Hearing protection, people that have normal hearing but want the enhancement and other features that we've worked on. And then, yes, the population that we currently serve. So there's opportunity, not as a company to you know just grow and you know, be more profitable, make because we invest back into it's a Starkey. We have an opportunity to help more people.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Absolutely. And we've we've talked in the past on sound bites with Luke Marsh and Soundgear. Um, you know, people say, well, why would a hearing aid company be focused on preventing hearing loss? And you know, there's plenty of work for all of us ahead. And and the fact that we're focused on prevention as well as treatment, I think is exactly within our lane.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

The veterans administration is our largest customer. Yeah, and we very proudly uh do what we can to help our veterans. And I've told many senators in the last four or five years, I hope the VA is not our largest customer uh a decade from now or even six years from now because it could be prevented, you know, upfront with our active military men and women, what we're doing is sound gear. And and they're listening. I mean, they absolutely so you know it's about helping the upfront and then you know the aftermath.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Yeah, and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. There you go. And uh and so in that respect, I think um we're seeing advances in technology across the complete spectrum. You with 29 years, me with 40 years. Um I wake up every day, people people ask me, and I every day I'm I'm trying to get into the office as quickly as I can. I mean, I'm I come in with the same excitement and energy that I did 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Yeah, and and you you know, we have similar backgrounds from a standpoint of small town growing up, and I'll say Midwest values. Your 40 years is well rounded. My 29 is rounded from a standpoint of I've been around you, I've been around Bill Austin, I've been around our customers, and I have, you know, worked with patients. You have done it, you know, more than, you know, I I know others, of course, like Bill, who, you know, we know we know him. But that's your passion. Now you bring that passion to what we do for the right reasons, you know, and I'm the service side. What can we do better for the patient, right? The technology and the service component and the quality and and thinking differently. So, you know, and and my point is to, you know, when you're talking your 40 years, it's it's you can say 80, it doesn't matter because you've been able to bring in valuable experience to us.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Well, thank you for that.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

And that's not uh you didn't pay me to say that. That's it's it's that's the team that we have here at Starge of people that know the patient and are in the in this industry for the right reasons.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Well, thank you. Well, that's an excellent segue into uh technology. And so, you know, in 2018, we launched the industry's first device that had embedded sensors that, in addition to providing the vital function of better hearing, provided a pathway to health and wellness and virtual uh assistant. Um, but then just recently, Genesis AI. Um talk a little bit about the genet, the Genesis of Genesis and um and how are things going?

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Well, things are going great, but I I could tell you that it takes a team.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Um, you know, Genesis started five years ago, right? So that's where I had a you know a little bit more more hair. Um, and from a standpoint of, you know, I'm always thinking about what's what could be better. I my biggest um fear I get asked a lot, you know, what keeps you up at night and and everything is complacency. And we knew 2018, um Livio, and then with the evolved, that was that was a stepping stone, right? That was the the stepping stone to what we could do, and I always like it, and not that I'm trying to go back and old school, but I I love the the space program, and I'm a uh you know astronomy and and I'll say uh space geek. Um, but it took Mercury and Jim and I to get to Apollo. And it's taken you know what we've done with Livio AI and Evolve great products, it evolved still a great product to get to Genesis, and we had parallel paths going. And it was quite simple. And you know, there's a lot of uh story behind the vision and you know the the the details and and and things, but it was uh October of uh 20 uh 17 and it was quite simple. We needed to cut the cord from uh my term, old Starkey, right? Eventually, where we needed new software, new app, new form factor, new everything to get us for the coming decade. Now we didn't see a pandemic coming, but you know, with the global aging population and growing um people we could help, we needed all new everything. And you always start with sound quality, right? You know that people aren't coming in buying a piece of plastic or or buying just for the health features. That's something that we wanted to add as a benefit. It's hearing and noise. So sitting down with uh our uh uh senior principal engineer John Kendrick, who was buying the destiny and the feedback we did there. John, what can you do for sound quality? If we think of anything else, you know, you could have all sorts of features, but people want to hear, you know, uh better in noise. And you know, I use you know 3D sound or you know, think think different, 3D at uh 4D, 5D, whatever it might be, you know, trying to make get the point across is like it's that crystal clear, you know, when you go in that movie theater and you you hear you know the surround sound and and everything. What can we do with that? And you know, starting there to where we are today, and everything in between that added to Genesis from, as you know, is you know, working with bringing on Achen uh Bomick is our uh chief technology officer, think different, right? Somebody that is is connected outside of Sarkey but also understands the IC development coming from Intel. We need an all new chip, all new design, all new fit, working with you on knowing the patient, because that's critical. It, you know, the patient is in charge.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

And you put all these components together and everybody works together and matures as a team, and you throw in a global pandemic that slows progress down, but also in its own way opens doors for newer technology that wouldn't have been available in 2020 or 2021 that we've been able to apply and make Genesis AI even better. And you put all this together and it's it's like a you look at it sometimes and it's like uh you know, a lot of ingredients going into a soup, and you're like, is this gonna taste good or not? But then it all starts coming together and at the end of the day, the patient decides and the goals that we had for Genesis, we checked every box. We checked every box that we set out to do. And it wasn't about you know, trying to be the most profitable, trying to go after the market share. We all agreed as a team, not just me. I you know, I I I was fortunate enough to have the front row seat. But we started out as this is we want to be the best, not the biggest. We can go get market share, you know how that works around the world, and you know, let other companies do that. I want to be the best. Apple doesn't have the largest market share, and I know they're always used as as the example. And it starts with that sound quality, and and it's not you know, we should not wake up trying to find the easy way. We should not wake up trying to um equate our work or or talk ourselves into the lowest common denominator uh because oh, the market's going down, people don't want to pay that. They will pay for value, they will pay for better hearing, and we have to believe that. And everybody at Starkey believes. And we did exactly what we said, and we're at a fun time because we just launched, yeah, and it's only been almost two months. Um, cautiously optimistic because everything's great, you're waiting for what's next. But now we're looking ahead, right? And and that's where this is the fun time. And Genesis AI is a byproduct of your 40 years, Bill Austin's 60 plus years, my 29, uh, Jeff Guy. I could go down the list of everybody that's industry experienced at this company. And it's like the perfect storm, but it's the perfect weather in a good way. This isn't turbulent times. This is, you know, for the greater good.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Well, and and you you frequently talk about one team with this. And yes, you know, I I reside in the RD division and the 500 RD people. Um, it's not hyperbole to say that every single one of them has in some way impacted this product. You talk about the hardware, and with Achen's experience coming in from Intel, and then the other team that he surrounded himself with on the hardware side, gave a great palette for it's art and science, even at that level, on the engineering level, where it gave a great palette to John Kindred and the other people working on the audio side to say, okay, here's a platform that allows you 118 dB input dynamic range. One of the most common, commonly reported features that patients uh remark to me when I first fit them is how quiet this device is. It's at 118 dB dynamic range. Soft is soft, moderate's comfortable, loud is never uncomfortable, but we're really making that available. And it's a great palette to paint on audio sound quality and build on.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

And and you know, I you know, John Kiddred inspired me in his conversation, and he inspired me because of his experience. And he knew, and when we talked, he said, you know, you know, I I was, you know, I'm the expressive, and and John's the you know, the thinker, right? And that's his job. And he's sitting there listening to him. I'm like, I'm not getting through to him. Maybe he doesn't understand. He's like, yeah, this kid doesn't know what he's talking about. He went back and he was thinking and thoughtful. And then he went to his team and then other people, and you just said it. You're in an RD, but you're part you and I know this, you're you're you're part of Stark, everybody is. And there isn't one employee at this company that doesn't affect where we are right now or where we're gonna be at the end of the year. Everybody plays a part. There's no there's no separations of silos and and who's you know, individual uh participant trophies or individual uh MVPs. It's a team MVP because we're doing it for for the the right reasons, and that's where we want to continue to go is working as that team for you know for the patient. Because if you do that, everything else, it it takes care of itself.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Yeah, and and the other thing I think for people, when you talk about all new everything with Genesis, it's it's the beginning of this platform that we can build on over the next several years now to continue to expand artificial intelligence from the machine learning that we're using now with edge mode, where it's human-machine interaction with the longer-term goal towards the onboard DNN accelerator to enable personalization and optimization, combining that technology with the individual user in combination with the professional to deliver results that we're just scratching the surface of today. A year or two from now, as you say, Genesis, as good as it is, is the beginning of a new era in terms of the way that hearing aid performance for sound quality and speech intelligibility um will just continue to improve.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

And you know, three years from now, I want to be 10 years ahead.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Yeah, that's what you said.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

And you know, as a from a technology and our roadmap, we have a clear vision. Now, now we have our platform. And when I first tried uh Genesis, you know, it was it's kind of the you're excited, but you're like, okay, here we go, right? And it was uh August of uh last year, 22, and I put it on, and I have a high frequency, you know, loss. And when I put it on and I listened and listened, and I heard, you know, some you know, uh it was out in the other office, but I had to make sure that it was on.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Yeah, I thought it was off.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

I didn't think the here, I didn't think it was charged or anything, and I had then I heard it, and the first word that popped to my mind, and I wasn't trying to be cute with marketing or anything, I was trying to from the human emotion was transparency. Yeah, because what I noticed was yes, the fit was great, meaning the the behind the ear, and then the cable, how the cable fit, you know, the the the form. More flexible, yeah. Yes, and and then the sound, because I didn't hear a circuit noise. Right. And Evolve AI is a great product, and we have proof on that, we know that. But with this, I had to make sure like, is this all in? I mean, is this baked? Is this what we're you know, cover? And you know, Achen was standing there and others, and uh, you know, the next biggest well, I shouldn't say the next, the number one customer we have, we know who that is, and said the same thing, you know, uh Bill Austin and have heard has heard and listened to more hearing aids. Because of work on the foundation and fittings in a 61 than anybody on this planet. And he said the same thing. And since then, as you and I know, we've we both you know heard it from customers and patients, not us, because that's a great thing, is you want a product that markets itself, not that we have to make it up. Right. Um transparent. You know, we've heard the the natural sound, the the the clarity, crisp. And those that's what you want. And we've got a really good marketing department that, you know, that leadership in our marketing department focused on not trying to oversell the product. Keep it simple, talk about what it does, yeah. Don't get cute with names, because our goal was like, as I said, the product's got to speak for itself, and it is.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Well, and and like you said, we and and professionals who don't have hearing loss can put it in their ears and hear how quiet it is. What convinced me and got me even more excited was when I started fitting patients with it. One of my patients wanted custom devices that he could just put in his ear, set and forget, and and he finds that you know the way we've got them set up, quiet is quiet. It's automated. He goes throughout his day and he forgets that they're in his ears. And these are custom devices. And he said he even forgets when he gets in the shower or in the tub. And in the old days, patients would call me, and I never have once punished a patient for wearing their hearing aid in the shower or in the tub because it meant it was natural. This one, now we know with beyond IP68, um, it's it's not a it's not a deal breaker if he does so. But to me, that's the highest testimony for those patients who forget that they're wearing them because it's so natural and such a seamless integration in their life. I've had those issues too.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

And what's great because you're you're talking about one patient, but you know, outside of what your daily responsibilities and what you proactively do for Starkey, which goes above any job description, you have your own my word, patient counsel. Yeah, right. And that's where you know we get the information, and you're working with people and patients and and others that are giving you the real unfiltered feed.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Radical candor is the expectation they have to agree to in working with me. You know, I don't work with as many patients as I used to because I've got other things, but I work with actively about 80 patients in that advisory council, and they give it to me. If we're not doing well, I hear about it.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

And so with your patient council, yeah, with the other um, I'll say very selective and you know, I I say I I'll use the word um high expectations, high maintenance type patients that you work with, some musicians, we know this. Um, we've had a pilot program that we were able to work with the product for over a month. Um, the Center for Excellence, Bill Austin's our number one customer. He will come in and, you know, I know what Genesis cost, and he would say if like this is on par or below, you know, evolve AI, didn't get that. And uh luckily, yeah, because hit the goal. But from our customers and the customers being fit, yeah, I can confidently say without hesitation, and we also know from the research that this is a flagship product for our industry. There is not one product better than Genesis AI, and I will you know put that up against any product uh with a professional to try because this is you know Bill started the uh custom um quality custom product for Starcue 1972. It was a uh cus, it was called the Custom Master, and it was a simple tagline. You know, I always remember this is that it was a product worthy of your consideration. Genesis AI for the professional and their patients, this is a product their patients deserve. Right, beyond consideration. Because this goes beyond them being familiar with you know, Phonak, Otacon, YEX, ReZound, our competition, which is known. I'm not you know calling them out. They're good competitors, but people stay with what they're comfortable with.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Right, familiarity breeds content, and they need to get out of their comfort zone.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

And this is a product that is worthy of you know, the hearing professional getting out of that comfort zone, getting out of the, you know, I say this with respect. The complaints is complacency of, you know, yes, I know the software, I know the system, I know the how to work with the company. No, this product's that good. Um, you know, get on the rocket ride because it's not worthy of their consideration. This is a product their patients deserve. Yeah, and that's different. And, you know, I will uh, you know, from any patient uh fitting, you know, I'll guarantee that they're gonna hear better. Yep. And I back that. This isn't marketing or something that um, you know, you just say and you throw out there. This is, you know, we've seen the proof and we know it's that good because it is the latest technology. And from the end, as we said, you know, what are we gonna say? What's the taglines? How are we gonna market this? And quite frankly, it became you know natural working with with the with the team of Karen Spath and Holly Schisel and and Josh Seacore. It's like all new everything, you know, because we were trying, how do you say all new everything? Well, it's all new everything. It is, and from the inside out, and that's all you got to say because the product speaks for itself.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Yeah, and clinicians who want the best for their patient, May is better hearing month, no better time. If you're a patient and listening to this, get your hearing tested. If you've got a hearing loss, seek out the help of a professional who can help find the best product for you. We feel very confident that your patients deserve the opportunity to be fit with Genesis. If you haven't worked with us or if you have, you're already experiencing it. But you know, this product is that good. We'll stand behind it. Yes. Um, we have you know, we've had and devoted previous sound bites episodes with Achin and Sarah to the technical aspects. 51 hours of battery life on the RIC RT, um, you know, on the on the custom rechargeable, 42 hours of battery life beyond IP68, a whole host of other starky unique features that will make it easier for those patients who want effortless, seamless, while also providing them with the additional granularity of edge mode, situational to reduce background noise and enhance speech beyond what we had in the previous generation of products because of that improved computational power on the chip. But the bottom line, I think, of no better message than uh than what you just said with regards to your patients deserve this technology during Better Hearing Month.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

And, you know, what you mentioned, a lot of those features is to me nowadays it's table stakes. Yeah. You know, we should have the best battery. If we're coming out with all new everything, it should be the best. And, you know, this is um you and I are movie buffs. Um when you remake a movie, there's only so many movies that like maybe it's better than the original.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Uh pretty rare. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

You know, people need to look at the remake of Starkey, this movie. Because if they think that Phonak or others might have the better sounding hearing aid, you know what? Don't assume. You can form your own opinion. But this movie's worth watching.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

We are going to move forward with independent verification of our product, Genesis AI, our flagship, against the best that the industry has to offer. And I'm really looking forward. I'm I'm chomping at the bit to see how those studies are going to come out. Hearing tracker has put out audio comparisons. Go listen for yourself. Listen to the comparisons between these products and what everyone else has to offer. Go in with an open mind and uh and and then let me know what you think. So, Brandon, thanks for for any final words.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

No, I, you know, I always enjoy you and I um are so aligned and and so passionate about what we do. And we talk about May's Better Hearing Month. And yes, go get your hearing check, but it's also understanding the importance of hearing health. Hearing is essential, and it goes beyond just a hearing check, it's understanding what you're missing. And Genesis AI and other products and and whatever that is, you know, at least do something.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Because hearing is essential, and we're not uh letting our foot off the gas because we're doing it for the right reasons, and we've uh this is just the start because, like I said, uh this movie, it's worth uh checking out because uh I like where we're going.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Stay tuned. I think this is a multi-part. There's going to be multiple sequences.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

It's not coming soon. We're here. Stay tuned. Stay tuned.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Well, thank you for uh listening to this episode of Soundbites. And if you have ideas about what we should cover in future episodes, we're all ears. Send us an email at soundbites at Starkey.com, and we would be delighted to bring on other experts like Brandon to discuss the issues that are on top of mind for you. Brandon, as always, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for your leadership and direction and vision for uh the new Starkey. And um it takes a team.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

It takes a team, and um and thank all of our customers and employees because I, you know, I work uh I work for them, and it's an honor of my life. So thank you, David.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Indeed. Well, thanks for listening, and uh, we'll hear and see you again next time.