The Honorable Alan Page Talks About his Hearing Loss Journey and his Legendary Career

The Honorable Alan Page joins Dave to talk about his hearing loss journey, fighting stigma, and why he requested blue Evolv AI custom hearing aids. He also reflects on a legendary career in which he broke many barriers, including as an MVP in the NFL and as a Minnesota Supreme Court Justice. Hear why Justice Page believes failure leads to more opportunities than success, and why he continues to choose growth over stagnation. This is a conversation that will motivate and inspire you, as we prepare for new opportunities in the new year!    

Link to full transcript

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to Starkey Soundbites. I'm Dave Fabry, Starkey's chief innovation officer and the host of this podcast. It's not often that you get the opportunity to interview a true American hero. And I don't think that's hyperbole in this case, with Justice Alan Page, one of the great it gives me it it's hard for me to say this, but I believe it in my heart as one of the greatest uh football players uh in and a member of the NFL's 100 best players uh over the first hundred years, um, even though he plays for the arch rival team and teams really to my Green Bay Packers, um spending the majority of his career with the Minnesota Vikings, but ending his career with the Chicago Bears. Both uh uh have been formidable uh opponents in the National Football League Conference and in the division that my Packers play in. Justice Cage.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

We'll forgive we'll forgive you for being the Packers.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

You know, I mean I I uh went to Lombardy Junior High School, as you know, so I I I come by it honestly, and uh, and if there is one thing I am, I'm loyal uh to a fault. This year, it has been especially a challenging one to follow the Packers, but uh but I never give up. My loyalty to the franchise is more than to the players. But I can tell you that you broke my heart many times in the um late 60s and early 1970s when I watched my team. Um and then the thing I think that's most remarkable is then you went on to an incredible and legendary legal career serving as an associate justice for the Supreme Court of the state of Minnesota. And I want to really, it's impossible to sort of summarize your remarkable career um without taking the entire podcast. And people didn't uh aren't listening and tuning into this to hear me talk, but uh I'll try to treat it in a couple different chapters. And so I want to begin first um by um you you were born in Canton, Ohio. Yes. Football fans will know that that is the home to the National Football Hall of Fame. And ironically, you literally, quite uh my understanding is literally uh helped lay the foundation for the Pro Football Hall of Fame, uh, and now you are enshrined there. Talk a little bit about growing up in Canton, Ohio and and your dreams as a young man, young boy.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

Well, I um had the good fortune of growing up with parents who love me, uh brothers and sisters who love me and cousins had what I would, you know, for me is the only childhood I know, so but uh pretty uh uneventful, typical, I think, uh childhood. Uh back in the 1950s for a young black kid um had the good fortune to uh have parents who understood and uh valued education and instilled that in me although I didn't always follow through on it uh as well as I should have along the way. But eventually it stuck. Um I started playing football as a ninth grader, uh not out of any design, but because my brother had played. I had a cousin who played, they seemed to enjoy it. Um and as it turns out I had some aptitude for it.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Um I'd say, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Well you know, I was a player who was really good at doing a very few things, but I could do those things really well, and those things were uh helpful to uh achieving the tap the task at hand, which was to, you know, perform on the football field.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Did you always play defense?

SPEAKER_03 4:29

I in high school I was an offensive tackle. Okay, hated it. Hated it.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

But when did you did you wait? You you then attended uh Notre Dame. Yes. Um and was that when you switched over to the defensive side of the ball?

SPEAKER_03 4:48

That was when I became a uh defensive player. You know, I came along at the end of the transition from two-way players, and uh I can remember we had uh an inner squad game of some sort, and they had me playing both ways, and I thought, how could you do this? And I'd done it in high school, right? But it was at a different level on the collegiate level, and I was just as happy to be done with uh being an offensive lineman.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Okay, and before was it before you went to Notre Dame that you took the construction job working uh on the team that uh was working with the uh Pro Football Hall of Fame?

SPEAKER_03 5:37

It was during the summer.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

Um one of the summers, I can't remember which one, but you know, it it it sounds really important that I worked on the Hall of Fame. I helped construct it, laid the foundation. Yeah, really I swept a few fours on one or two occasions. I worked for a company, most of the work I did um was at a site in North Canton, Ohio.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

They were the the Hoover Vacuum Company, okay, which was where they were headquartered at the time, okay, was building an addition. And you know, being a laborer, being about as low on the on the rung as you could be, um, I spent a lot of time sweeping fresh concrete floors, getting rid of the dust. And I maybe have did that once or twice at the Hall of Fame site also.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Yeah, well, it uh had to have been humbling those many years later when you were inducted into the Hall of Fame to think about that and and never forgetting. And I think that's one other thing that characterizes you is you don't forget from where you come and um along the way.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

Well, I've I've had a uh great deal of good fortune. And um along the way, there have been many people who have contributed to that good fortune. And I just think it it makes sense that uh well as as as as a friend of mine once said, when you uh ride the elevator up to success, you have one responsibility and that is to send the elevator back down. Not just get off the elevator and go about your business, send it back down for the next one to come up. I I believe that.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Well, I think your life has been a test of testimony to that, and I think that after you had that opportunity to discover that, as in your words, you were good at a few specific things with regards to playing football, that then you had the opportunity to go to Notre Dame, where not only uh performed very well, you won a national championship, and now you're in the uh uh the college football hall of fame, um, and then were drafted by the Minnesota Vikings in the first round. Uh they saw the potential. You became part of the original uh Purple People Eaters who uh made go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 8:17

They saw the potential, but you know, I was drafted in the first round, I was their third first round choice.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

They had three first round picks that year. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 8:26

I I They had three picks and I was the last one, so so it wasn't number one on their list.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

All right.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

That's uh as it turned out it it worked out for all of us.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Do you know who the two guys were that were taken in front of you?

SPEAKER_03 8:41

Clint Jones and Gene Washington from Michigan State.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Okay. Yeah. Uh well, I would say they both had good careers. Um, but um your career um with the Vikings appearing in four Super Bowls and becoming the first a trivia question, answer to a trivia question, the first defensive player talking about doing one thing very well, uh, I would argue that you were an edge rusher before there was the definition of an edge rusher, with your speed playing right tackle and being able to get in so successfully to the quarterback as part of those purple people eaters were what frustrated so many teams and so many quarterbacks. Uh, and you were the first defensive player to be named uh MVP for the season, as well as the defensive player of the year. Um I think only one other player, Lawrence Taylor, uh subsequently has done that. But how did that feel to be named the the the first player to be there's so many firsts in your life? What drives you to that level of success? Your humility on saying you do a narrow thing very well, but I see so many firsts in your career. What gave you that drive?

SPEAKER_03 9:58

Well, I think some of it is fear of failure. Um just the absolute fear of failure. And uh fortunately that fear didn't paralyze me.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

I think what happens with a lot of people is, you know, I think fear of failure is is natural in all of us, but for some of us, it's paralyzing. And I was fortunate enough to be able to manage to overcome it.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

And m and have it motivate rather than paralyze. Is it was there any specific things, elements that did you did you ever allow it to paralyze you and a fear that you had to overcome that paralysis to motivate? Was there any anything that you could think of?

SPEAKER_03 10:45

Oh, I I there probably more than I want to mention on this program, but just thinking back on, you know, I I talked a little bit about parents who valued education and my not living up to that potential along the way. I think some of that was fear of failure, fear of not being able to perform, be fear of um being looked at as inadequate.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Yeah, so I was just gonna go there. You know, uh imposter syndrome is one of those things where you feel you don't deserve that success. And that's again another avenue, another area where paralysis can be because you don't feel like you deserve it. So you just throw up your hands rather than let it motivate you.

SPEAKER_03 11:34

I didn't have that. Mine wasn't a case of feeling like I didn't deserve it. Mine was a case of feeling like I couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

And um being afraid of trying for fear of uh for fear of not being able to. Well the one thing I've well, one of the things I've learned along the way is that fear becomes self-fulfilling. If you're afraid to try, you can't. You won't. You you fulfill that uh fear. And I I I I've also concluded that the the worst case scenario is so you try and you fail.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

What's the worst thing that happens? You get to try again, hopefully, and you get another shot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:33

And more importantly, you learn from it.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

I think one of the things that we we people do is we think that being successful however you want to define it or winning is what it's all about. And that if you don't win, somehow you have less value.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:57

But the reality is that you know, as as people, we either grow or we stagnate. And the only way to grow is to learn.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Yeah, and I learned a lot more by failing failures than I have from my successes.

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Absolutely. Absolutely. Um in fact, in in my case, you know, the you when you when you win, you think it's all because you're strong, smart, whatever it is. Um when you lose, you have to reevaluate and think, well, what did I do or did I not do that caused me not to be successful? And from that you grow and develop. You don't, I don't think you grow a whole lot by patting yourself on the back and saying, aren't I wonderful?

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Yeah. Yeah, the the the humility with with without becoming complacent um uh and and you know, while still letting that feeling like you can't or you're not gonna be successful motivate rather than paralyze. Um you know it it brings me to the next topic that I want to shift to, in that growing up in Canton, uh I know from your auto from your biography that your first thought with that uh the the family that had instilled the benefit and value of learning, you wanted to be an attorney at a young age, right?

SPEAKER_03 14:29

At a very young age.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

And and and you you parked that dream when you discovered that football was going to be uh a vehicle to enable you to go to Notre Dame and then have this success that anyone would desire, but then you shifted and went to law school. Explain how you were able to park that original dream of law while you had this football career, only then to take up uh uh uh becoming an attorney and eventually a Supreme Court justice later.

SPEAKER_03 15:03

Well, let me let me let me just talk about my legal journey. As a kid, you know, you get to that age, people start asking you what you want to do when you grow up.

unknown 15:15

Right.

SPEAKER_03 15:16

And growing up in Canton, Ohio, the options for a young black kid were you know not all that great. Um things went really well, you might find a job in a steel mill.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Right.

SPEAKER_03 15:32

I had an uncle that spent 40 years working in steel mills, and the one thing that was clear to me even at a young age was that the work was dirty, it was dangerous, and it was repetitious. Three things which you know weren't high on my list. Didn't know any lawyers, never met one, uh didn't know what the law was really about. But I had heard stories about lawyers making lots of money not working too hard and driving big fancy cars. Well, in the eight, nine-year-old mind, when you balance the two, it goes straight to big fancy cars, right? Um the other thing to to be fair, uh I was eight years old when the United States Supreme Court decided Brown versus the Board of Education. And for me, that decision which sounded the death knell for state-sponsored uh segregation in this country, it sent me the message that the future could be better, that there was this thing called justice, and that the law had the power to uh provide justice you know, above the doors of the Supreme Court building in the in in Washington are the words equal justice under law. That decision for me was shifted the ground.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Imagine, I can only imagine.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

It gave me the sense that fairness could prevail and that maybe I could be a part of that. And so I didn't really park the dream or shelve the dream of becoming a lawyer. I just started playing football. Didn't didn't lose sight of the fact that I wanted to be a lawyer when I grew up. Um played high school football, played college football at Notre Dame. Uh, one of the reasons I chose Notre Dame is because it had the academic reputation that would be beneficial in terms of law school. Got drafted by the Vikings um and actually enrolled at William Mitchell College of Law in 1968, my second year, the start of my second year with the Vikings.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Um they allowed you to uh kind of sequence that into the off-season, or did you you were you going to law school during the season?

SPEAKER_03 18:30

Well, I started, it was William Mitchell at the time was a night school.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 18:35

So I started, you know, playing football, practicing during the day, and I didn't last long, by the way. Uh the the the Socratic method, the the way they teach in law school was something that was new to me. I felt like I didn't have a clue what was going on. I was probably the dummy in the group, and uh I've got this football thing going and a new baby at home and all of that. Um so I dropped out eight years later it was time to go back. Uh this time fully prepared and committed to learning the law and understanding how the law worked. Um first time around I wasn't prepared or committed to that. Uh the second time around I was. And I you you will hear uh law students and lawyers say they hated law school. I loved every minute of it. It was challenging, it was fun, it um, you know, it was nine years into my football career. I mentioned repetition earlier not being high on my list. Well, nine years in, um I was ready for a new challenge and a new challenge, and and law school revitalized me. Um and I just as I say fell in love with it.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Yeah, I was an undergrad at the University of Minnesota. I'm just a little bit younger than you, and I remember that, and um that um you uh graduated from there, went on then to serve. Initially, I think you were in private practice a couple years.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

Uh for I don't know, five, six years. Went on to the Minnesota Attorney General's office for seven years, I think, and then was elected to uh Minnesota Supreme Court.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Yeah, and that was usually uh an appointed role. You were the first uh to be elected into that role, and then you were re-elected what three times before Well, I I was the first in a few generations actually I'm trying to think in the in the at the start of the statehood and uh through the first maybe eighty or ninety years, elections and the selection of judges through election was quite common.

SPEAKER_03 21:19

Uh, but then it went away. And I was the first one in quite a while uh who sought election. And we have this system that allows for appointments, and most judges uh both at the appellate level and the trial level in Minnesota are uh are appointed.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Got it. And and you were the first African American Supreme Court justice in the state of Minnesota, I think again, fulfilling that district. Yeah. And uh so uh thank thank you for your service to the j judicial system. After, I mean, many people after having this career as a football player. Would have said, okay, you know, I hear what you're saying about repetition and avoiding the mundane and wanting a new challenge, but then this was really relighting that challenge that had been lit, that that inspiration, I guess, that had been lit at a very young age for you to really, as a boy growing up during the uh Brown versus Board of Education era um to complete that cycle is nothing short of remarkable in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

Well, you know, I'm as a person, I'm not one uh think about driving a car.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

You can look in the rear view mirror and why do you look there? Because you want to be safe going forward. There is a tendency to want to look in the rear view mirror and pat yourself on the back. Those of us who have been athletes, you know, we want to look back and say, wasn't I great? That's not me. That doesn't work for me. And so um looking forward, what is the next challenge? What is the next thing that I can contribute to? Because as I say, uh you either grow or you stagnate. Yeah. And for me, looking back, um would have been stagnation.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Well, I think that's a very important statement as well, because our journey together um has been related to your hearing loss. And uh and it's really been over the last year or so um where I've had the opportunity to both assist you on your hearing journey, but you've taught me some valuable lessons. Um many audiologists um uh who might be listening to this podcast have grown up over the last four, I've been an audiologist for 40 years this year. And many of us have sort of struggled with the fact that there is a stigma associated with hearing loss and the use of hearing aids. And you know, many, many times I'm engaged in a battle for people to acknowledge that they have hearing difficulties, what that impact is on their life, and to persuade them to use hearing aids is quite a struggle. And so when when we first um became acquainted, you not only weren't stigmatized by the use of hearing aids, you asked me uh a fundamental question of um uh uh could we not only uh work on getting you fitted with a new pair of devices, but do you remember what your other first question was of me? I don't asked if I could make them in an in an unusual color.

SPEAKER_03 24:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

And yes, um, you know, some people, uh if you'll recall my first my answer when you asked that was I said, I can make them in any color but purple uh because I'm allergic to the color of purple and it would burn my hands. But um but some people may be surprised to know that your favorite color is blue. And I've never asked you why why is your favorite color blue when uh you did uh play for the Vikings for 11 years?

SPEAKER_03 25:17

Well, I I will be honest with you, my favorite color is actually pink. Oh, okay. But I figured pink might be a little much.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

We could have done that too. We could have done that too. But you know, how is it how is it that you wanted to um sort of say I I don't want to try to camouflage hearing aids, but rather um let the world know that I'm wearing devices that they can easily see.

SPEAKER_03 25:47

First of all, you can't camouflage them. No, no. They're they're visible.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

So hey, for me, why worry about it? Maybe if you could if you really could do a good job of camouflaging them, I would have thought that way. But from my vantage point, you can't. So that's number one. Number two, we've come a long way. We've got people walking around with airpods and who knows what all else in their ears. If people can walk around to listen to music and not be self-conscious about it, somebody who needs uh hearing assistance, why should we not have the same freedom? I I don't it I don't understand that.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

I completely agree with you.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

And and finally, um you know why not have something that um at least in my mind is stylish.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Yeah. Thank you. I agree with that. Yeah, the blue ones we have I I think are rather stylish.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

Might I say I was uh reading to a group of uh second graders last actually last Monday.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

And at the end of the reading, we took some pictures, and some of the kids were still I was sitting down and they were standing next to me, and one little boy said, What's that in your ear? And I said, It's my hearing aid. And he turned his head and said, I have hearing aids too. And that just made it for me.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

That's awesome. You hadn't shared that with me. I love it. Well, it just it literally just happened.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

Just happened last week.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

You know, to me, now I don't wanna I don't want to uh uh uh overstep my bounds here, but I know that you've written four books with your daughter Cammie, one of which is entitled Alan and the Perfectly Pointy, Impossibly Perpendicular, Pinky.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

And I I'm thinking perhaps there is a future book for you two that might uh address something related to removing barriers and and opening up opportunities for uh discussions about hearing loss at any age, because that's a remark that's an awesome story, and I love that that he said that.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

Well, it it was a special moment. Yeah. This little second grader with his little tiny you know behind the air uh hearing aid.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

Had a bond.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

Had a bond. We sh we shared something. That's really and you could and what was interesting is when he asked the question, one of his friends was there. And when I said it's my hearing aid, both of them said you know, the the kid with the hearing aid said, I have a hearing aid too. And his buddy said, He wears a hearing aid. I mean, it for me, it just couldn't have been better.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

Well, for me, you just made my day, and that makes my job all all the more worthwhile when we can break down barriers. You know, for me, in many cases, I would say that I presumed that you would want to try to do your best to camouflage devices. And for many people, that's fine too. And as you said, if you really could do it, it never works right. It never you try to match it and it it never is quite right, and then it just maybe clashes even more. And so then why not? And you really challenged me to just sort of say, why not make them in my my second favorite color?

SPEAKER_03 29:53

Well, I I I wear a lot of blue suits.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:58

Uh my watch band is blue. In fact, my watch, I have an Apple watch that is blue. So it all matches.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

Yeah, yeah. Well, I love it. And you know, it's for me, um, the idea you mentioned the changes. Uh when did you first notice that you had a hearing loss?

SPEAKER_03 30:25

Oh, seven, eight years ago.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

And and you got your first hearing aids around that time? Maybe a couple of years later. And was it a difficult initially? Were you somewhat hesitant to wear them?

SPEAKER_03 30:41

No, I actually once at one of my colleagues uh on the court who had left the court and gone on to do other things, had lunch with her one day. And she mentioned that she had got just gotten hearing aids. And I thought, well, if she can do it, I can do it. Love it. So I've from that from that point forward, I was in with uh both feet, if you will.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Love it. And uh and you're wearing a custom style, you liked that with rechargeable batteries. We fit you with the Evolve AI custom devices, so makes it easier getting them in and out. Certainly, we discussed the fact that at the time you were wearing masks, you know, putting them on and taking them off a lot, and were tired of flinging the hearing aid off of your ears.

SPEAKER_03 31:33

Um well, it just it's it I'll just pull this out. This is so simple and so easy to use. Um and you know, with the with the uh rechargeability with the Bluetooth. Um and with with the Bluetooth, I mean it is it is not unlike wearing AirPods or something like that, with the benefit of they help you to hear.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Right, right. They're amplified, they're customizing the audibility for your hearing loss, while also, you know, again, I'm biased as well, but uh I think they look rather stylish. Yeah, and the functionality to be able to stream any audio, even navigation or podcasts like this, uh, or phone calls is great.

SPEAKER_03 32:29

I I just they've really been uh uh a benefit.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Wow to be. I uh I thank you for taking the time um to speak with us today about your remarkable journey. I mean, in 2018 you were given the highest civilian award that can be honored uh to anyone with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. And uh and and you know, in my opinion, I mean, there's no greater honor and no greater representative representative of that award than you in the way that you have been driven to, as you mentioned, you know, uh focus on education, um uh excel in not one but two different disciplines and embody this message of access. And even now, we didn't even talk much about your education uh foundation that you formed with your late wife Diane that continues to focus on diversity and inclusion for African American children to ensure that Brown versus Board of Education to this day uh guarantees that people will have access to publication uh public education. And I thank you for that commitment. And I can tell you I'm I'm so in honor of your career and your legacy and your life.

SPEAKER_03 33:52

Well, thank you, Dave. You know, I as I said before, I've been fortunate. And I think those of us who have been fortunate, been privileged have both the obligation but also the opportunity to do what we can to make the world better for all of us. You know, it's it was Paul Wellstone that said we all do better when we all do better. Well what's the point if we can't work to help everybody do better?

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Well, I I think I'll leave it at that. And and I want to thank you for making my life better with the interactions that I've been able to have in working with you.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

Well, thank you. It's it's I've I've enjoyed it. It's been fun.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Um Yeah, we're not done yet either. We'll we'll continue to work together here.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

So oh absolutely. I I I have to say I love following your travels. I get to I get to tour the world.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Well, and likewise um me with you, because I know you're a proud granddad now. You've got four children, but you've got grandchildren, and I'm expecting my first grandchild in May of next year. So you're already teaching me uh how to do that well by me watching um your um Gruber as you refer to it and Grandpa Uber. Grandpa Uber. And uh, you know, I just it's it's really what it's all about, and uh is is sharing uh life and and helping each other. So thank you for that. And and for those uh listening to the podcast uh and this episode of uh Starkey Sound Bites, appreciate your listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please like it. Uh share it with your friends on your pay favorite podcast. Uh subscribe if you wish so that you're not not gonna miss a single episode. And honorable Justice Alan Page, thank you for your time today, and I'll look forward to seeing you again soon.

SPEAKER_03 36:04

Thanks, Dave. Enjoyed this immensely.