How Hiring for Culture Helps Organizations Thrive

Jessica Perez, Starkey’s Chief People Officer and Executive VP of Culture, sits down with Dave to explain how COVID blurred the lines between business and personal, why hiring for culture is so important, being your authentic self, flexible work policies, and creating an environment that cultivates success.

Link to full transcript

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to Starkey Soundbites. I'm your host, Dave Fabry, Starkey's Chief Innovation Officer. Our guest today is Jessica Perez, Starkey's new Chief People Officer and Executive Price Vice President of Culture. That's a long title.

SPEAKER_05 0:16

It is, and it's so fun. And I refuse to cut it down.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Yes, no, you shouldn't. And not even abbreviate. I mean, I think you could come up with a cool acronym for it, but I think it's better if you just draw it out.

SPEAKER_04 0:26

You know, I did like the Madame Vice President for a while, though.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Say that again.

SPEAKER_04 0:30

Madam Vice President. Madame Vice President. That was fun, but the chief people of the Mr. MVP is MVP. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Well, beyond your title, we're going to have you talk a little bit today about really navigating these unchartered waters. I mean, really what we've been going through. It feels like just a continuation of 2020 into 2021, into 2022.

SPEAKER_04 0:52

I love that you just said that because when the new year came around, like 2021, I was like, okay, ha. And then I went, nope, nope, there is no 2021, there is no 2022. I'm sticking with 2020 until this is done.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Yeah. Just feels like one long blur and I'm waiting for New Year's Eve. Yes. And whenever that's going to be it. It feels like we're getting closer to it now, but it still is ongoing. Yeah. And uh and so we really are looking forward to talking about a few of those topics today, how you've been helping Starkey navigate these waters as an organization. Uh maybe talk a little bit about some of the the uh your your your uh crystal ball, if you will, for what you see for the future. But uh but uh to that end, let's just kick it off. But first, I think uh talk a little bit about your Starkey story.

SPEAKER_04 1:41

My Starkey story, gosh. So my Starkey story is that I spent really the first 10 years of my career doing retained executive search, which is like headhunting um within pharmaceutical, biotech, med device, fascinated by science, wasn't smart enough to be a doctor, so it was like the way that I could kind of play with it. Um, and kind of went through that age 30 transition, if you're familiar with that.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

It was a long time ago, but yeah, yeah, I I remember it vaguely.

SPEAKER_04 2:11

Yeah, it's it's one of those things where there was just something that suddenly catapulted me into realizing I just need to be my authentic self.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

What was that?

SPEAKER_04 2:19

You know, I well, I think it was well, a divorce will do that for you. Um getting laid off will do that for you.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

So you had the experience then of 30 being laid off and got divorced. Yes. Wow, double whammy.

SPEAKER_04 2:32

So interestingly enough, I decided I'm not gonna go back to the retained world because it didn't feel good, didn't like the job, don't know why I did it for as long as I did. And Starkey just happened to come across and candidly, I didn't know anything about hearing aids, wasn't familiar with Starkey, even though I lived here. And it was like, oh, hearing aids. So, which was beautiful because when I came for the interview process, I was just me. Hire me, don't hire me. Like it's all about networking, meeting people. And it was interesting because the first interview that I had, he kind of, you know, did the little sit back and looked at me and why would we hire you? And well, you don't have to, right? It was just a very honest kind of thing. And I figured that interview went terribly, not gonna get, but at least I did it, and I walked through the door and I met people. So color me surprised when then I get called back. And interestingly enough, the second round of interviews, that same person that was doing this was now doing this engaging, fun, authentic. And then I met with a handful of other people in the HR world, the same thing, and I went, there's something so interesting about these people. So, anyways, obviously joined supporting the RD side, and that's when I learned I got really into the technology because in my mind it was for older people and they're kind of clunky, didn't know, and then meeting with the engineers, especially recruiting for them and understanding like the signal processing that goes into it. And oh my gosh, like one day these are gonna be wireless, one day, and then it goes to the iPhone, right? And now you've got sensors and all those. And I was like, it was just fascinating what we could do. And then, as far as the engineering side, you know, the computational power and like what it takes to fit all these different pieces into this little thing and then have it powered. So I was fascinated by the technology, very, very smart people, and I was super interested in the culture. So, anyways, that's what started me on my journey of really being engaged and looking at our culture. This part was just an RD and we went through changes and we realized, gosh, you know, we're promoting managers that are very technical, but they don't really desire to lead people. They don't really want to be managing people, they still want to be down here. And the reason that they're wanting to be promoted to managers is because they perceive that they're gonna get special communication or they're gonna be in the know of what the secrets are. So once we realized that, it was like, oh gosh, let's really look at both the professional as well as you know, the leadership kind of track, if you will. And if it really is about communication, then at a certain level in the organization, whether you're leading people or not, you're gonna be in the communication stream.

SPEAKER_05 5:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 5:15

Right. And if you want to do technical stuff, that's fine, but you do it as an individual contributor, and then you get leaders, da-da-da. So we go through all those pieces. Um, and then I'm asked after doing all that fun stuff to then pop over to the international world.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Yeah, because I was gonna say that you've had the opportunity that a lot of people within Starkey haven't had, and that's to see uh a really broad array of our global business and business partners. Yeah. And I think, and talk a little bit about that because it's really, I think, foreign literally, yeah, uh, for for many of us to really see all of the uh the impact that Starkey's making around the world.

SPEAKER_04 5:52

Yeah, oh, it is fascinating. So I would say two parts. I have been fortunate enough to work with leaders that see me, get me, and they're like, just let her go. Because I'm a little bit stubborn. I like to dig in. And so, other than I think my first promotion into managing the recruiting function, none of the other promotions ever existed. The titles didn't exist, the positions didn't exist, and that's the beauty of Starkey is that when you see an opportunity, you know, then you dive in and you try to help the business, even if it's not in your job description. And that was just my case, is that eventually as time went on and other people or other departments started to see it, they were like, hey, what is she doing? And maybe we need to call that something. So when I went over to the international side, we had never had support for international. And it was literally day one of like, yes, I want a headcount report. And you would laugh at this, but like there was no headcount report, there was no system, and it was like, well, I know that we've got, you know, about 3,000 employees located outside of the United States that just happened to sprinkle across, you know, 29 different countries, what they do, how they do it, who they like, we had no idea.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

Right.

SPEAKER_04 7:07

And that was done by design at that time when we started building all these different facilities, is because we wanted them to be standalone businesses and not get bogged down by, you know, the US or corporate or those things. But of course, as we've continued to grow, and then with everything that's been going on around the world, there was a realization that, like, if we really want to have an impact, that impact right now we focus so much on the US, that impact is gonna be outside of the US.

SPEAKER_03 7:35

For sure.

SPEAKER_04 7:36

Yeah. And so as we start doing that, then we realize okay, like in Europe, we've got maybe nine facilities. Each facility has, you know, a managing director, they have salespeople, maybe they have HR finance people, but none of them are connected with the other countries within the region.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Yeah, and that was gonna be my point is that you know, you talk about having and seeing all of these independent entities that are all part of the greater whole, then as our EVP of culture, how do you tie that in to our global culture?

SPEAKER_04 8:07

Yeah, so that is that was, I think, you know, the most rewarding part of this role in working with them is they didn't know what HR was. And they were used to HR being kind of the 1980s policeman, policewoman.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Windows are open in the parking lot and it's raining. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:26

And so it was really just starting to integrate and get to know the leaders. And when you start to get to know the leaders, you start asking questions about the business, and it naturally always lends itself when you're talking about results back to the talent or back to the people. And then you start to talk about like, hey, have you ever thought about, you know, maybe tweaking an incentive plan to drive the behavior that you want? Or, hey, have you ever thought about setting goals? Or, you know, how do you hold people accountable? How do you know that your employees are engaged? How are you getting the best of them? And because they're seeing it drive business results, they glom on immediately. And I've lost count of the number of times that I've met with people like, I still don't understand how you're HR because you seem like you're more of a business consultant, but that's what we want to be, right? We are here to enable performance, both for the leaders as well as the employees, and act as that bridge and conduit to say, how do we get the both best out of both?

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Yeah, I I've heard it said a lot of times that you know people think of HR as a cost center and organizational development is really uh an organization within the organization to help bring and populate that culture and that vision and the why for the organization, which is so vital to Starkey's mission and vision.

SPEAKER_04 9:42

Absolutely. And that's the point of when you talk about how do we get that culture and really create that one global organization, it's our purpose. Yeah, it's our mission.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

Yeah, and it's great because we're not we're not doing things, we're doing things that help humanity.

SPEAKER_04 9:55

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

We're making products that then are fitted by professionals on end users to make a difference in their life and enable them to communicate with other people.

SPEAKER_04 10:04

Exactly. And it's like, what better gift than that? And when you have people that work for an organization with such a strong mission, there are so many more commonalities than there are differences. And so that's what we built on is our customer service orientation, serving our customers better than anybody else. But then in addition to that, we started doing road trips, going to these different facilities because then I needed to build trust with the employees because they had their perception of what HR is, right? Which is again the scary one that we're not going to talk to. And then little by little, you know, really understanding what is it about Starkey and what do we expect out of our leaders as far as how they show up and how they behave. Exactly. And so for some areas, there was, you know, somebody would show up looking great, they know how to manage up very, very well, they know how to present their budget, but then behind the scenes, you find out they're sitting in the back office all day, not interacting with employees, not engaged with their employees at all. Not at all.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Well, and I want to talk a little bit about that. You've already mentioned just since we started, you talked about authenticity.

SPEAKER_05 11:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

You talk about vulnerability, you talked about going through this period of turning 30 where you sort of needed to come to grips with your authentic self. I think that one area that I find particularly refreshing about what you've brought to the table is I mean, we've lived in a world in many cases where it's like, fake it till you make it. I don't mean it's darky, I just mean in general. Leadership is often seen the leap from the front and fake it till you make it, and don't let them see you sweat.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

And you're bringing a sense of authenticity and vulnerability. I'm a huge fan of Brene Brown.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

And so in her book, the latest book, Atlas of the Heart, she talks about, you know, I've spent my whole life trying to think about how many countries I can visit, how many places I can go. And really what she's taught me in that latest book is to try to get in touch with and being vulnerable with those people who have earned the ability for you to see uh and be authentic with them is important. And I think you really have brought a flavor of that to the organization in your leadership style. Thank you. And and and I think that that's really important moving forward because the last few years we've all had to deal with real life in ways that in many cases we haven't before. And I do want to pivot a little bit into that in talking a little bit. You've been at the helm now during um COVID.

SPEAKER_05 12:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

And talk a little bit about the way and some of the challenges that you've had within Starkey in in dealing with the COVID pandemic.

SPEAKER_04 12:33

Yeah. You know, it's I think that what COVID has done for us, um, positive, negative, however you want to look at it, is that people don't seem to have the ability when they come into the workplace to leave the personal life behind, right? And for so long we were taught, you know, business is business and you don't bring personal stuff into the business. But with COVID, and whether that is simply because people were isolated and you know, realizing what was important, or maybe it was the whole discussion about like returning back to work and you know, daycare. And so now you're talking more about your kids or have you seen the show?

SPEAKER_00 13:17

I I don't remember which network it's on, it's called Severance, where it's like people's work life from their home life is completely separate. And like you said, during COVID, we've had to get used to imperfection on Teams calls or Zoom calls. It's a cat climbing around in the background, the kids coming in asking for something. Yes. And we all just got used to it. In the old days we would have been mortified.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Yeah, yeah, and I love that.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Yeah, and now we've seen that authenticity come through. And you learn a little bit more in ways that previously we we we didn't know about each other at St.

SPEAKER_04 13:47

100%. And I remember, you know, there there were so many arguments about, you know, you have to be in the workplace to build your culture and how do you do it without being face to face? And I literally went through building out this global HR team while we were going through COVID. So not only, you know, the space, the physical space, countries apart, right? But then also the fact that we weren't able to really communicate live. So it's kind of like the double whammy. But the beauty of it is, you know, when you are talking with your boss or, you know, talking with your team, and one of your kids, this literally happens, slides down the banister and the whole team says, Hey, Cody, be careful. It brings this familiarity there. It makes it trusting and it makes it a much safer space. And so for me, I got to know my team on a much deeper level than I otherwise would have.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

That's true. However, now I'll be devil's advocate and say that one of the challenges for me personally during the time when we were all remote is that we lose that element of when we would come into a meeting into a conference room, good old-fashioned conference room where we're all together and we have 10 minutes beforehand or afterhand, we just kind of engage in that informal conversation. Now, you know, with teams meetings lined up end to end all day, it's very difficult to have that casual, informal conversation. What are you doing as our chief people officer and and and thinking about the culture of the benefit of that informal, uh unprepared, unplanned conversation? You you you have the informality of Cody sliding down the banister, but but how do you how do you replicate that for other sorts of nuances and benefits to the workplace?

SPEAKER_04 15:33

Yeah, oh, it's so interesting that you bring that up because I'm struggling with that right now. So having been remote for so long and having the schedule, not having all the interruptions that you would typically have, being back in the workplace, constant interruptions, right? And if you haven't been planning your day for interruptions, right? So that's kind of like another shape that we exactly that we all have to make. But I think the other side to it is, and we experience this, we had a customer event in Las Vegas about a month ago. Um, there is something so magical that happens when people come together. And when you've got the good positive energy and you haven't been out of the house for so long. And so I think part of what we are orienting ourselves to is how do we make Starkey a place that people want to come to? Right. So that it's not just work, it's also that social interaction. And you hear this all the time, it's the people of Starkey, right? It's the way that we care about each other, it's our customers, it's the closeness that we have with everybody. So, how do we start to create that community feel? And it's changed up the way that we look at things, whether it is, you know, building outside and having like picnic tables or areas where people can sit in the grass and be close to nature, or you know, maybe there's gonna be communal areas where I remember, you know, years ago during breaks, there would be a handful of engineers that would actually play and have their little banjo, and you remember this, these kinds of things. That's the environment that we need. That's the environment that people want because people want to have fun again. Yeah, there is so much just heaviness everywhere right now that to come to a place where you can be your authentic self, let down your guard, you're with colleagues that have got your back, you trust them, they trust you, and that ties in, right, of course, to our values and making sure that we're hiring people that actually exude and believe in those values because otherwise it's just it's it's never gonna work if you don't hire the right people for your culture.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

And so to that end then, um, do you believe that it's more important to hire for culture or for the aptitude for a given job description?

SPEAKER_04 17:47

Culture.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:47

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It seems as though you can train on the other elements. Now, obviously, in some of the highly technical fields, I mean they need to have the cachet, they need to have the credentials in order to do the job. You can't train somebody up into some of those high-levels.

SPEAKER_04 18:03

And interestingly enough, I'll give a shout out to one of our engineers, Pete, because that was if I go back to the RA recruiting days, one of the first roles. So we were hiring a group internally, it was gonna be a confidential search. We needed to have a director, senior director, I can't remember what it was. And we had two candidates. One was Pete, one was another gentleman. And the gentleman had, you know, 150% of the technical requirements. He could do it in his sleep, it was not gonna be a problem. But the management side, people leadership side was like, uh, not so much, wasn't really the orientation. And then we had Pete, who had probably 80% of the technical, you know, what we were looking for, but the people leadership and the desire and the motivation was through the roof. And that was the first big culture shift that we made was hiring a people leader first, and then the technical side comes secondary, right? Especially if they're working with a team. And, you know, I have lost count of the number of people that I have worked with, you know, over all the years that functionally were geniuses, and there is so much to learn from them, but my goodness, you put them in front of anybody, and they're just not very nice. Yeah, they shut down ideas, they shut down the brainstorming, they shut down the creativity. It's all about them and their brilliance, and that will never work. It works in some cultures, some organizations, not ours.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Sure. And I can tell you that as somebody that works with Pete on a on a daily basis, that 80th percentile, if you will, he has filled that gap and then something.

SPEAKER_04 19:40

And he's now a vice president.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Exactly. So ta-da. Nice job.

SPEAKER_04 19:44

I know. Like feather in my cap gets bigger and bigger, and like such a fun conversation when he was promoted to that. And he loves it because he loves people. And like when you care about your team, it's kind of like your kids. When your kids succeed, like you feel better than when you succeed. Sure. For people that have that natural orientation where it feels so much better when your team succeeds, and when you do, you're in the right role.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Yeah. No, that's I mean, I think that when you align something you're passionate about doing with something that you're good at, that's where when people say find your passion, yeah, that's what it's aligning both of those and putting them together into something that you could do all day long.

SPEAKER_04 20:20

Yeah. And stop trying to be something that you're not.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Yeah. It's okay.

SPEAKER_04 20:24

And I know for me, you know, I went 10 years on the retained search side, like, okay, yeah, this is fine, but no real growth, right? Again, because I wasn't even authentic. Coming to Starkey and, you know, to go from being an individual recruiter, right, in 2010 to 2022 being named the chief people officer and executive VP of culture. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever aspire to be a see anything. Never did I even want to be a manager because I didn't think I would be good at it because I didn't like I thought you had to be, you know, kind of mean and like, you know, deep down detail management. And then to be in this position only because when you're your authentic self, you're not second guessing what you're saying. Right. You don't have to positive.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

You don't have to remember what you said because you're only limited by your memory. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 21:14

Yes. And that's then when, of course, it's like a slingshot because there's no baggage holding you back.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Well, to that end, let's shift a little bit and talk about some of the challenges that you've had in your role. I mean, we've heard, we've all heard about ad nauseum.

SPEAKER_05 21:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

The great resignation, the great reshuffle. Uh, and certainly, I mean, you've you've had to address that in your role in in ways that you didn't have to think about before. Absolutely. But but you know, what what insights did you gain by this great reshuffle, great resignation? One thing I've seen and heard, and you probably have a better handle, I'm sure you have a better handle on the numbers than I do, but I know that in seeing reports of people who did uh decide to leave their jobs that they began the pandemic with into another one, uh I saw some. Something where upwards of 70% had second uh uh second guessed them their decision that the grass really wasn't greener on the other virtual side of the fence. But to talk a little bit about some of the challenges.

SPEAKER_04 22:12

I think some of the challenges is that people were being pushed to the extremes, both personally as well as professionally. So on the personal front, we're going through something that we've never gone through. On the professional front, to your point, whether it's turnover or, you know, we have to orient ourselves to our patients a little bit differently, it's just high levels of stress. And I think that, you know, as we look across, well, really all over the world, where people are orienting themselves is they want to work in a place where they feel good about what they do, they feel like they're adding value and they feel like they're able to fulfill their own purpose.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

Right.

SPEAKER_04 22:50

It's almost like it's become more than a paycheck. And hey, if I'm gonna spend, you know, two-thirds or whatever it is of my life working, I want it to mean something. So, in a positive way, this has really helped us at Starkey because of our purpose, right? People want to do something, especially people that don't know how to make the world a better place right now because it feels so heavy. This one thing, and knowing that the work that they do can change somebody's life and is adding goodness. And then you start talking through, you know, hearing through humanity, right? Or now we know with hearing loss, like ties to dementia, Alzheimer's, depression, you know, all those different components. And with the world already being a dark place, knowing that you can have a hand in bringing light to somebody's life and the impact that that has, that's what people are looking for. So we've seen actually many more people that like are like have awareness of Starkey, specifically wanting to reach out to us because of the purpose that we have and wanting to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Yeah, I think it's been our secret weapon since Bill Austin founded the company.

SPEAKER_04 24:01

Yeah, yeah. But I would also say, like, in contrast to that, because of COVID and nobody having any answers, there were a lot of fingers being pointed at HR. How long is this gonna last? When is this gonna end? What do you mean we all have to go and work from home suddenly? And when do we get to come back and how are we gonna come back? And is there any flexibility?

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Is there like or that it it feels like a four-letter word, but it's a six-letter word, hybrid, you know? Yes. Um the people that got, you know, uh initially said, What do you mean I have to work from home? And now saying, What do you mean I have to come back into the office? Yes. Obviously, there are, and there's been a lot of uh studies that have looked at the the disparity, the economic disparities of people that had to come in to work every day during the pandemic versus those who've been able to work remotely. But now there still are jobs and roles that we have that require a physical presence to do their work. But then uh how are we how are we navigating that and advice that you have for other maybe business owners that that are listening to this podcast as to how to address hybrid? Because it is a big issue and an issue. Is this going to change moving forward or is this a temporary, transitory stage?

SPEAKER_04 25:14

Yeah, so I would answer it a couple of different ways. So I think that, you know, what has come out of this is that there's almost this equilibrium now between the employer and the employee, meaning they're on even playing fields, which I love, and I think that's the way that it should be. Because for every entitled leader that you have of like, you know, oh, they don't know what they're doing, or you know, I can just replace it. We have none of these. We have none of these, right? But in the big world, business owners, right? And then you've got the entitled employee, right? Give me, give me, give me. And you can see how those two kind of just the perceptions kind of bonk head.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Yeah, it shouldn't be adversarial.

SPEAKER_04 25:56

It shouldn't be. It should be a partnership and it should be reciprocal, meaning the more that you give, the more you're gonna get. And that's that partnership that is starting, I believe, starting to be created, right? But I think part of the difficulty is like you said, for the individuals that were showing up on campus every day during the pandemic, we recognized that and we rewarded them and acknowledged them and thanked them, you know, and we had a lunch that we brought in trucks and you know, bonuses, those kinds of different pieces. But then on the other side, you know, it has required leaders to take a step back because guess what? You're no longer in a position of power. People can work anywhere that they want to, right? And you got to get uncomfortable being comfortable, which many leaders say get comfortable being uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Yes. You can be uncomfortable being comfortable too.

SPEAKER_04 26:44

Which all of us can say until it's us that we're gonna be. Exactly. Oh, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Yeah, it's always easier when I'm asking you to be uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_04 26:51

Exactly. And so there was this disparity, and there was a bit of round and round, but basically by talking with the employees, understanding where they were, establishing that trust. And listen, at the end of the day, the work's either getting done or it's not gonna get done, right? We need to build this trust.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

You know, you raise a good point. I think the trust is fundamental, both from a manager and from an employee standpoint, is that in the old days, I think, pre-COVID, people thought, well, if someone was working from home, they were goofing off.

SPEAKER_05 27:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

And now getting to the point that focused on the productivity, the outcome measure rather than the time you're set you're spending in your chair in the office.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Um, as long as we can continue to get because I will say I'm I'm old school, I'm a boomer, and and I enjoy those um interactions that occur at the proverbial water cooler or at lunchtime and someone that I didn't plan to meet or I didn't have a meeting set up with them, and then we might we might engage for 20 minutes or five minutes, and it could be meaningful and change my day.

SPEAKER_04 27:55

So once you realize that piece, and it's not about getting people to do what you want them to do, it's how do you build on let's create a partnership, let's create a win-win that makes sense for the business, but also makes sense for the employee, right? Or the leaders or the so it's really just about those discussions. And I think that now that it's become less of a topic, so we did become flexible and you know, for those areas it was so interesting because we want to say flexible, flexible, right? Do what makes sense and you know, make sure you're getting your work done. And when you need to be on campus, be on campus. And when you don't, then you don't. But people wanted more definitive answers than that. So then we had to say, for example, if we were to throw out a generality, you know, we would love for you to be here three days a week and then working remotely, whether it's at home or wherever else, two days a week, right? And then the noise is, you know, it's kind of heavy for a little bit, and you know, oh gosh, do I always have to be online? Do I not have to? And then the noise just stops.

SPEAKER_05 28:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:57

And it becomes normal again, right? And it's just like it's no longer top of mind. But then what starts happening is as we're having events, right? Or let's say there's group lunches that are getting together. And I know with my team, we get very, very intentional about making sure that we have that time together and certain days where we're all gonna come together. Well, then for those individuals that aren't coming into the office, now they've got like, what did I miss out on?

SPEAKER_05 29:23

What do you mean you've got to be a little bit more than that? FOMO.

SPEAKER_04 29:25

Exactly. And so once this becomes that environment and not just talking the talk, but walking the walk where people are authentic, are enjoying themselves. Yes, we work really hard, but we really enjoy the people that we are working with. Plus, we've got the community spaces, so it's got kind of that social impact. It's not that like we're looking down on you and trying to figure out like how long you're working and what you're doing. Once it becomes an environment that people want to come to, that's when it all dissipates, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:56

So we've talked about a lot of different things in terms of where you've been, where we're going. Uh and now I'm gonna ask you to put uh your crystal ball here. And what are your predictions for the next five years? I mean, we we've seen a lot in the last three. What's the next five gonna look like?

SPEAKER_04 30:12

Yeah. You know, I think we are still gonna have a talent on war. I think it is incredible. Talent on war or war on talent? War on talent asset, yeah, or talent on war. Talent on war, either one.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:25

You know, I I I think that people will continue to be mindful of where they spend their time. I think that they will continue to be purposeful in their decisions. Um I think there's gonna be more and more entrepreneurs that are gonna be out there that maybe don't wanna be under, you know, the whole public paradigm and making shareholders happy. But I think that there's also going to be a much stronger commitment and kind of realness for people that, you know, to do what you love and love what you do. I don't think that's just gonna be, you know, a talking thing. Yeah, I think it's gonna be, you know, more relatable. And even from a leadership perspective, you know, when we talk about authenticity, and that's where I see a difference in, you know, what I hope the future leaders is that we're more relatable. And, you know, when I mess up, and Lord knows I mess up all the time. If you can see yourself in me and see, like, well, geez, if she can fall down and do that thing, and she's doing this, maybe I too can become that thing.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

Absolutely, and thank you for that. And so we call this Darky sound bites for a reason, and so the time just flew by.

SPEAKER_05 31:47

Yes, it did.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

And so now I want to transition in the in the vein of the name of this podcast into a couple questions about sound and your experience. So, do you have a favorite musical artist and why?

SPEAKER_04 32:00

I do. I do. So, Patsy Klein. Oh, love her, and it takes me back to my childhood growing up in Northern California. Grandpa was a cowboy, had a bunch of horses, and we do the rodeos. And there's something about anytime I hear, it's kind of like that old country. Oh yeah. It just brings me back to the sweet childhood.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

Oh, the raw and edge to her voice and the complexity of her voice is correct. Yeah, in her story.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

One more then. Um so we talked about sound, and you've talked about the need to recharge, be your authentic self. Do you have a favorite quiet place? It could be a place in nature, a place in your home. Um can you think about the absence of sound? Although we don't celebrate that often. There is a benefit in industrialized society to finding a quiet place.

SPEAKER_04 32:50

Yes, I would say anywhere in the woods.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 32:54

So camping, no technology, and just listening to nature. There's something about just it it's almost like it's grounding. Yeah, I would say anywhere in the woods.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

I think that's a good one. Thank you. Excellent. Well, uh, it has been an absolute pleasure to work today. And uh, you know, I I really appreciate your talking about a whole host of topics. We kind of went in a nonlinear fashion, but I think we covered an awful lot of ground. And to our listeners, thank you for listening to this episode of Sound Bites. And if you enjoyed this conversation, please rate and review uh the sound bites on your preferred podcast. If you can also hit subscribe so that you're sure not to miss a single episode as soon as they come out. And I thank you again for listening, and we look forward to seeing and hearing you again soon.