More Than A Medical School

Navigating the Final Milestone of Medical School with Rebekah Herring

• Casey Pearce • Season 1 • Episode 1

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The residency Match can decide your specialty, your city, and the next several years of your life, yet most people only hear rumors about how it works. We sit down with Rebekah Herring, senior career advisor at NYIT College of Osteopathic Medicine, to explain the NRMP Match in plain language, including how rank lists become a legally binding contract once the algorithm runs.

We also get practical about what actually moves the needle. Rebecca walks through how career advising starts in the first week of medical school, why so many students change direction during third-year rotations, and how a strong plan keeps you on track for audition rotations and the right letters of recommendation. We dig into the building blocks of a competitive residency application and CV: academics, research, presentations and publications, leadership, service, mentoring, and teaching.

For osteopathic medical students, we cover the real-world nuances of COMLEX versus USMLE and why some competitive specialties may require extra preparation. We also talk about what happens if a student doesn’t match at first and how SOAP can lead to a successful placement.

Finally, we zoom out to mission and outcomes: primary care needs, keeping physicians close to underserved communities in Arkansas and the Delta, and why an active alumni network can open doors. Subscribe, share this episode with a future doctor, leave a review, and follow along at nyit.edu/arkansas and @nyitcomAR. Make sure to also follow us on socials @arkansasstatemedianetwork.

Welcome And What Match Means

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to the More Than a Medical School podcast, part of the Arkansas State Media Network. I'm Casey Pearce, and we're glad to be joining you today to talk about the match process, which is getting our medical students across the finish line. Once a student finishes medical school, then they're on to residency. Navigating that process can be a whole new challenge, but at NYITCOM, we have a proven system in place to help our students choose the right specialty and program for them. Today I'm joined by Miss Rebecca Herring. Ms. Herring works as our senior career advisor at NYIT College of Osteopathic Medicine. Pretty much from day one, Rebecca, you engage our students to help them through that process. But the, and I want to tell them a lot about, I want to tell our prospective students a lot about how we do that. But first, let's start with match. So when medical students graduate from medical school, they have to find a residency to continue their training. And unlike me and you, when we finished school and we were kind of on our own to go find a job and work wherever we want, the medical system has a process

How The NRMP Algorithm Works

SPEAKER_00

in place that uh that kind of directs those students, I guess is the best way to say it. So we use the term match. Explain what the match is.

SPEAKER_01

The match is facilitated through the National Resident Matching Program. And it is an algorithm that is designed to essentially match medical students into a residency. And so through this process, students apply and they ultimately rank their residency programs that they are most interested in. And the programs will also rank the medical students that they are most interested in. And the match algorithm runs to essentially match the students to their programs, and it creates a legally bonding contract that means that the students will go on to conduct their residency training with that specific program that they match to.

SPEAKER_00

So I want to back up even one step further. Medical school is four is four years, and the curriculum is all the same for every student. And when we talk about becoming a family medicine physician, an internal medicine physician, a pediatrician, an orthopedic surgeon, and so on and so forth, it's at the point where you go through match. That's where you determine what specialty you're going to pursue and where you're going to continue your training. Is that pretty much Yes, that is correct.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, we start having those conversations about their specialty. Um, literally within the first week of medical school. It's okay if students are undecided, but we really spend the first three, three and a half years determining what specialty students want to apply to. And the match helps them determine what type of physician they are going to be.

SPEAKER_00

I know in your conversations, you have students who come in day one knowing exactly what they want to do. And you have other students, the experiences that they have over those really their first three years, by the time they get to the end of their third year, yeah, you pretty much need to make a decision. But they have a lot of milestones and um and points through their education where sometimes they just completely change course. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01

That is correct. Um, more than half of our students change their mind in their third year because they are in those clinical rotations, experiencing um up to eight different specialties. And for a lot of students, that can be eye-opening. They may come in with a set plan and know from day one. And then third year, a new specialty kind of sneaks up on them and they change their mind.

SPEAKER_00

So you, your entire job is devoted to helping students really, from the day they get to medical school, build their

Advising From Day One

SPEAKER_00

resume, um, get the experiences they need to be successful. Um, would you say that NYITCOM invests more in those students than maybe other medical schools might?

SPEAKER_01

I would say so. Um, you know, I have the opportunity to attend conferences and sit on panels with other medical schools and people who do what I do. And I found that not many medical schools have someone who works in career and residency services assisting their students through this process. Um, it is primarily more popular within osteopathic medical schools. But, you know, I have friends who are currently in medical school or who've recently gone through this process, and I meet students at conferences from other medical schools, and they express that they wish they would have in the past or currently have a career advisor and someone to assist them through this because it is not common with medical schools.

SPEAKER_00

So we provide that, and that goes into how we bill ourselves as more than a medical school. That's a little place where you get more. Uh, one thing I want to point out so you work very closely with Dr. Amanda Deal, who's our Associate Dean of Academic Affairs and Graduate Medical Education. So she spends a lot of her time helping uh lead those career advising conversations, but she's also working to start residency programs. So a real expertise in medical education and that residency process as well. So you have a very talented, very experienced physician that uh walks along those students, her specifically, but also our entire faculty and staff support them. Is that accurate?

SPEAKER_01

It is very accurate. Um, I say it takes a village to get our students from the starting line to the finish line through residency. And we have a plethora of faculty and staff who are willing to support our students every step of the way who have professional expertise in their specific areas that can really help contribute to our students' overall success.

SPEAKER_00

So one of the kind of, I don't know, quirks about the match, but one just kind of element of it is there are more physicians that apply for positions than there are residency slots that exist. And we could do a whole nother uh episode and conversation on the state of graduate medical education, GME, residency, those are interchangeable terms that that we kind of use that we get through. But the good thing is for NYTCOM, we've been very successful over uh our seven years. We've had seven, we just put our seventh class through the match. Our campus opened 10 years ago, so seven graduating classes at this point. We've done really well

Match Rates And The SOAP Backup

SPEAKER_00

with those numbers. Would would you say that as well?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, our numbers are consistently above the national average for both osteopathic medical schools and medical schools in general. Um, so we like to call that a success in our books when we manage to exceed the overall national match rate within the comm.

SPEAKER_00

And for those handful every year that um that don't initially match, there is a supplemental process that you also uh walk those students through to help them find positions that were not filled. And so we refer to our match rate as the ones that were successful that first phase, but then we use the term placement rate to speak about our students that were placed and did find a position. And I know at our school we're, I think cumulatively say 99.9% over that seven-year period.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, that is correct. We've very happy with our results, and our students work very hard and diligently to match and place during the SOAP process. That is that supplemental process that you mentioned. So we are very proud of our 99.9% match and placement rate.

SPEAKER_00

So there are various reasons why a student may not, but I think may not initially match. But I think overwhelmingly, our data shows that the ones that follow the script that you and Dr. Deal and our faculty give them are overwhelmingly successful.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, I would say that. Um, we start working together as soon as year one. Um, in that first week, we will have a group meeting, and I work individually with the students all throughout all four years. And Dr. Deal gets to know these students, and so we can kind of detect any red flags on your application pretty early on and help find ways to circumvent and pivot from those red flags to give you your best opportunity at matching. So we we have a plan laid out, we have the statistics and data to back up the advisement that we give. And so we really lean into our success rate and hoping that students will follow the plan

Building A Competitive CV

SPEAKER_01

that's laid before them.

SPEAKER_00

So tell me what some of those things are that you specifically do that you look at that, you know, you're reviewing a student's resume to say, this is a great idea for you. This may not be as great an idea for you. What are those specific elements of their CV that that you're looking at to determine how you're gonna direct them?

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. Well, first we look at the specialty or specialties that they are most interested in. Um, it's all competitive. Thousands of students go unmatched every year. And so we determine what specialties they're most interested in and then compare their CV and the academics to say, you know, this is a great fit for you, or, you know, how can we parallel plan to give you choice on match day? Um, but the things that we look at on the CV, aside from academics, that is the number one factor. Um but we look at their research and along with research, their presentations and publications that come from that work. And we look at their leadership. Are they involved within the calm, both in a community level, but on a national level? There are lots of opportunities for our students to get involved within their specialty nationally. And we're looking at their service and volunteerism. A lot of specialties, primarily in primary care, they really value our students giving back into their communities. We look at mentorship, um, professional memberships, um, teaching, tutoring. There are so many factors that go into a student's overall application that can be indicators for success and their competitiveness within their chosen specialties.

SPEAKER_00

So you get to know these students pretty well over those four years, literally from day one to walking them all the way through. I bet you've got some fun stories of students that uh that had really good experiences on match day.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Um, just in this last uh match, um, a student that I worked really closely with. Well, let me let me back up a little bit. Um, so we try to encourage our students to make their specialty choices very close to the end of their third year because they're applying for audition rotations. They need specific letters of recommendation. And so making that decision early on allows them time to get all of the documents and the nuances that they need for their specific specialty. Um, so sometimes we have students change their mind a little closer to the deadline than others. Um, but we had one of our phenomenal students, Tate Snyder. Um, he actually changed his specialty choice about eight weeks before the deadline. Okay, nice. And he changed his specialty to one that has some very particular nuances in terms of what he needed for the letter. And so Dr. Deal and I specifically worked to help him pivot. And Tate did all of the work. He worked really hard, um, but he changed his specialty and ended up matching into his number one program, which is very exciting. Um, but not only was it his number one, we have never matched a student into that program. And it had been at least three years since they had accepted and matched with a DO student. Um so that was a really big accomplishment for the Calm, but for Tate and his family as well. So um that's just one of the more recent stories. It was so exciting and brings me a lot of joy to see our students succeed and really reach their goals, which is what I'm here to do.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, student Dr. Snyder attended undergrad at Arkansas State University. So he's one of those success stories we really like to talk about that took advantage of what we call the only opportunity in Arkansas to earn an undergraduate degree and a medical degree on the same campus. So that's a fun one for us. I want to get into um specifically

DO Versus MD Nuances

SPEAKER_00

kind of competitive specialties, and you said something there that I'm gonna deviate from my notes uh uh just a moment, that this is the first time that that program took an osteopathic student. We've talked in our other podcasts about the difference between osteopathic and allopathic schools. We're obviously an osteopathic medical school. We were the first DO school in Arkansas. DO schools, the growth in osteopathic medicine has been significant, especially over the last few years. About 25% of all medical students in the United States now are osteopathic uh positions. But um, there's some nuances to the process that I just kind of want you to pull out. Uh, can you talk to specifically what that means? You know, to say specifically are DO is less competitive in some specialties or otherwise. Let's kind of just address that. How would how would you help handle that conversation?

SPEAKER_01

I have a lot of those conversations with our students as they're going out and rotating with programs in auditions. Um, you know, they may visit a program for four weeks and be the only DO student on that rotation, and they're seeing their peers who are allopathic medical students who are also going through this process and saying, you know, I'm the only one here who is studying osteopathic medicine. What does that mean for me? And so there are a few nuances to the application process. Um, for example, um, our students must take the COMEX exams to graduate, to become a doctor of osteopathic medicine, whereas our friends who are in allopathic schools, they take the USMLE exams. Um, but for some of the more competitive specialties, um, we kind of categorize them into the surgeries and the ologies, um, orthopedic surgery, neurology, um, pathology, radiology, oncology specialties like that. Our students might also consider taking the USMLE exams along with their Complex exams that they need that are required for them to graduate. Um, because there are some programs that want to know that our students can also pass those exams. Um, so while it does add a little bit of extra time and dedication, it just reaffirms that our students know all of the material and then some as their allopathic, you know, comrades.

SPEAKER_00

And I want to correct myself, not less competitive, but just some historical uh barriers that osteopathic students may have to overcome that that may not be in the way uh the same way for our allopathic counterparts. I think that's a better kind of way to say that. Um, is that accurate?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, that is correct.

SPEAKER_00

So I just want to be clear on that. But the good thing is we've seen a lot of very successful candidates uh go through that.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, we have matched our students into very competitive specialties, um, radiation oncology, diagnostic radiology, dermatology, orthopedic surgery, um ophthalmology, you name it, um we have helped students get there.

SPEAKER_00

So we have some historic data, seven years of classes from NYITCOM students. And we've always said that no matter where you want to go, we've proven we can get there by what you're saying. Historically, osteopathic physicians are twice as likely to practice in a primary care specialty like family medicine, internal medicine, pediatrics, general surgery, but um it's not exclusive to. So speak to that with me. You you mentioned that we have had a number of successful matches from NYT Commode State that have gone into those more competitive specialties. Uh how do you manage that process with students that are interested in uh pursuing what we consider a more competitive specialty? I also want to catch this by saying

Competitive Specialties And Primary Care Mission

SPEAKER_00

not competitive because it's more prestigious, competitive because there are fewer opportunities. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01

Correct. There are some specialties that only have 70, 80 programs in the country, whereas, you know, family medicine, pediatrics, there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of program options because there are larger specialties. And so the more competitive specialties, it's because there are fewer opportunities, um, because they take longer in training, um, more nuances and more details to them, which is why they are more competitive. Um, but we are just as proud of our students who match family medicine into rural Arkansas as we are our students who match, you know, orthopedic surgery into uh uh metropolitan area. Um, but for our students who are more interested in the competitive specialties, we might meet a little more often just to ensure that they are dotting all their I's, crossing all their T's to ensure that they have everything that they need. Um, but it's really up to the student how much they want to utilize my services. There are a few things that will be required of them on along the way. I make sure that they meet their deadlines. Um, but students can meet with me as little or as often as they want. If they want to meet once a week, regardless of their specialty, I'm happy to do that. I just want to ensure, you know, and do everything that I can to help them match into the specialty in the program of their choice. Can never guarantee a match, but I'll do everything I can to help them get there.

SPEAKER_00

Again, kind of in long along the lines of osteopathic history, about 25% of our students go into family medicine. And that's intentional. Our dean is a family medicine physician. Dr. Deal, who we've mentioned, uh has a key role in the match process, is a family medicine physician. So we've modeled to these students the great opportunity that they have to practice uh family medicine and make a difference in the lives of families, specifically in Arkansas and places that we've said are our geographic mission.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, that is correct. Um, you know, we are so thrilled for all of our students who match and are who are pursuing medicine. Um, but really our mission is to, you know, put physicians in these underserved communities that especially exist in the Delta region. And so anytime that we can match students, of course, we're excited, but especially in primary care, you know, family medicine, internal medicine, pediatrics. And the closer we can keep them to Arkansas, well, selfishly we we want to do that. We'd love to keep all of our students here.

SPEAKER_00

And that's a different piece of conversation. We've seen significant growth in residency programs in Arkansas. NYT Commode State has been very proud of our role in that. But we're also very proud of the fact that these large national academic uh medical centers want our graduates, that our students are competitive in those places. So

Where Graduates Match And Why

SPEAKER_00

geographically, can you give me an overview of again? You said you we'd love for all of them to stay here, and many of them do, about 20 to 25 percent every year stay in Arkansas. But where else geographically do our students go? And can you just kind of provide some context to that?

SPEAKER_01

Right. Our students are going all over the country to very prestigious programs. Um, like you mentioned, Casey, most of our or a big chunk of our students do stay in Arkansas. Um, but we also have a lot of students who go back home to Texas because a lot of our student body is originally from Texas. Florida is also a really popular state for us, Illinois, Missouri, Tennessee, a lot of our contiguous states. But we've matched students in New York, in Hawaii, um, in California, Pennsylvania, Ohio. Um so we help students get to wherever they want to be. Um, but most of our students do match and stay in Arkansas or in a contiguous state and very prestigious programs.

SPEAKER_00

And the reason that becomes important is we know that physicians are much more likely, there's a radius, kind of this statistic that they give. And I can't always pinpoint it exactly, but it's something like 70% of physicians practice within 100 miles of where they go to residency. So we want to get them to places where we hope they'll practice, like like Jonesboro. Yes. So um we we do see that play out in so many of our graduates that go to residency in Arkansas do stay here to practice. That's accurate.

SPEAKER_01

That is correct. Yes, we have some wonderful physicians here in Jonesboro who we are so proud of. Um, they matched here for residency or went away for residency and then came back and are are practicing and who are actually now providers for some of our current medical students who move here and don't have a physician. They are now being treated by some of our alumni. And so it's really a full circle moment.

SPEAKER_00

And we do have great stories of students that are from this area and have have moved off and received their training elsewhere and are now coming back to Arkansas to practice as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, that is true. Um, but we also have students who are going off and matching at other large academic institutions around the country. Uh, we have matched students at Yale, Harvard, Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, uh, Vanderbilt. The list goes on and on. Um we have students who are achieving really great things.

SPEAKER_00

And we are equally proud of each of them.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. So, Doug, as we kind of wrap up, this has been a great conversation. Um, you know, talk to our future students, students that may be deciding where they want to go to medical school, and and the the support system that we put in place for them, we hope is a deciding factor on them choosing to come to NYTCOM.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. I think we have an incredibly supportive faculty and staff system, an alumni support system to help our students get to where they want to go. Um, you know, I work with these students very diligently and I tell our students all the time, I will do whatever I can to help you match into the specialty in the program of your choice. I can never guarantee a match, but I do believe that we have the data and statistics and now alumni map and alumni network to really back up what we have to say. And uh we like to say wherever our students want to go,

Alumni Connections And Closing CTA

SPEAKER_01

wherever our prospective students want to go, we can help get you there and we will do whatever we can to help you get there.

SPEAKER_00

And one thing I do want to add, one important element that you and I enjoy working together on, I handle alumni relations for our medical school. So that's one of my favorite parts of my job, getting to stay connected to those students who we've seen you raise through those four years and uh keep them connected to our school. One way that our alumni have very generously been giving back to our students is as you're having those conversations in the second year, third year, first year, even with those students about what specialty they'd like to be in, that we've offered to connect them with our alumni. The good thing is, all of our alumni have gone through this process within just the last six, seven years. So it's very fresh in their mind. They've got connections to those programs, and that's been a huge asset for our students.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, I think our current students are very grateful to have that. Alumni network, that mentorship. Um, I tell our students it's not always about what you know, but it's about who you know. And connections can take you very far. You never know who our alumni are connected to. And just within the last year, Casey, you and I have made over 200 alumni connections with our current students and our alumni network. And I think our students are really benefiting from that. And I think our alumni benefit from that too, being able to just give back to a program that has given them so much.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. And they're always willing and gracious. But I want to dive drive that point home quickly that you and I have prioritized relationships. You building relationships with those students to earn their trust as you help advise them on that career path. Me building relationships with that student to while they're a student here so that they'll stay connected with us when they're alumni and then be able to connect back to help our students. So we value relationships here. And I speak to you and I, but also all of our faculty and staff in a willingness to help our students through the match process, through the curriculum, by connecting them to alumni, and so on and so forth. I really do think that that fits into the overarching message that we want to tell our prospective students who are considering us. We are going to help you. We are going to take care of you.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Intentional relationship building is at the foundation of what you and I do and what so many of our employees do. And we want to get to know our students and build those relationships. That way we know what you need and what you want. And we can hopefully help provide you with that to help you get to where you want to be.

SPEAKER_00

Becca, this has been a great conversation talking about the match process, talking about student success, helping our students become successful and become the physicians that they want to be. And we say sometimes that their patients deserve their future patients. So this has been the More Than a Medical School podcast on the Arkansas State Media Network. For Becca Herring, I'm Casey Pierce. Please visit our website nyit.edu slash Arkansas. Follow us on social media. Our handles are at nyitcom A R, as in NYIT com Arkansas. We'd love for you to be able to keep connected with us, see the exciting things that are going on in our medical school day to day, and hopefully eventually end up becoming a medical student here in Junnsboro. Thanks so much for joining us today. We'll talk to you next time.