Episode #7 - Allister Lyne

What happens when everyone wants the best for 'the sport', yet relationships still fracture?

For nearly three decades, Allister "Big Al" Lyne has dedicated his life to growing beach volleyball in Victoria. As Director of Vic Beach, he's built one of Australia's strongest beach volleyball communities—not by focusing on results alone, but by consciously creating experiences that keep people coming back.

In this conversation, we explore the often-overlooked relationship between grassroots providers councils and sporting governing bodies. Why do organisations with the same goal sometimes find themselves working against each other? What role do trust, communication and stewardship play in building healthy sporting ecosystems and where does the players interests sit in all this? And how much energy is lost by fractured relationships that could instead be invested in growing the game?

Al shares a perspective of the challenges of running community sport, and the lessons learned from navigating sponsorships, councils and governance.

This episode isn't about assigning blame.

It's about asking better questions to work towards greater understanding and alignment.

If sport exists to serve people, how do we build relationships that allow everyone to move in the same direction?

In this episode we explore:

•  Why community is built through experiences, not competitions. 
•  The difference between leadership, stewardship and control. 
•  Why communication and trust sit at the heart of healthy sporting ecosystems. 
•  Lessons from over twenty five years of building Vic Beach. 
•  What sporting organisations can learn from grassroots communities.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:02

In the first half of this season, we've explored the formation of community, athlete pathways, coaches, and governors. But now we look at things that keep our ecosystem separated, and specifically what happens when passionate communities and governing bodies lose trust in one another. My guest today is Alistair Lyne, Director of Vic Beach. For nearly two decades, he's built one of Australia's largest Beach Holy World communities while navigating the realities of councils, governing bodies, and the challenges of growing a sport from the grassroots. This isn't a conversation about blame, it's a conversation about stewardship, trust, and what it really takes to build a thriving sporting community. I hope you'll enjoy my conversation with Big Line. Okay, we are entering into a new phase of the samurai shift, heading into the fracture part where things have broken. And the idea is that we're not going to stare at things, we'll just uh have a look at them and work out what got broken and how we can maybe fix it. So and today I'm I'm really excited to go back to the grassroots again. We've been following a stream of heading down the high performance pathway. We're going back to the grassroots. I'm very pleased to welcome Al Line or Big Al, as he's most affectionately known throughout the volleyball world, to uh to the pod. So welcome Al.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Thanks, Bunny. Pleasure to be here. I'm uh I'm a little bit nervous. You've had some some quite talented humans on here so far. I hope I can keep up to the standard.

SPEAKER_04 1:34

Well, you have a lot of talent running through your veins, Al, so don't you worry about that. Um I I uh for a brief overview, I met you on the I don't think we met much indoor, but I met you on the beaches of Victoria. Uh you and Paul Bourne were were coming through and getting some results and went off the national tour and uh the national programme in Adelaide. Um then you came back and um we got you involved with coaching in Vic Beach, and then we got you involved with the very, very beginnings of Republica.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

You got me running the tour. Oh, it's the tour. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As soon as I turned back, came back from Adelaide.

SPEAKER_04 2:11

Comp manager, yep. And uh so you you instantly had amazing skills in the volleyball world, you had a passion for it, and and your ability to organise was stand out, and your ability to uh uplift people was also standout. So uh then uh uh yeah, so yes, you have talent, and I'm very happy to have you on board to get your perspective on things. It's been probably 10 years since uh uh well more than 10, 13 years since we've left, and you've been the the sole director of Vic Beach, which is a unique kind of model within the Australian ecosystem. It is a bit of a unicorn, yeah, it's an interesting one, and I know there are some um people in governance of different states who are a little bit uh what could I say, um not apprehensive but defensive around the Vic Beach model because it's not directly under the governing body. Um and so we'll we'll we'll get into that a little bit, but there's some definite um upsides to what's going on in Vic Beach, and as we know in the federated model, everything's different and every state's different in their own unique way, and you know the goal is to all work together. So mate, you you you got involved, I'll stop rambling and start asking questions, that's my job. But you you you've been involved in high performance as an athlete and then involved as you know managing Vic Beach for and being a part of it for well more than 13 years. Well what is the sport 17 now, maybe 19. Wow. Well, okay, you've been out longer than me. Um what what's this what have those experiences taught you about this sport? That's a that's a long question there, Chico. Yeah, bring it.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

I mean, I've uh I gosh, I I started when I I came out of out of uni and my I was uh I was uh I did engineering and I uh I I was sitting on the couch at my brother's house and he's like, hey, you want to come and play indoor volleyball with me? And I was like, I don't really want to play a volleyball because I think it's a stupid game. Uh because I was playing basketball with my work team, and then uh my brother eventually convinced me to come along, and I just thought it was the greatest thing in the world because as a as a tall human, you could be as big and as physical and as and as aggressive as you wanted to be to your skill set, and then you could enjoy that. Uh, and then your whole team was there just supporting you along and and just and building what you could be as a player, and then uh soon after that I uh I went and filled in at a game at uh at an indoor center where George Moraz was coaching, and he was like, You could you could do something here, and I was like, Well, I'm a poor student, I have no money here, so he sponsored me, and then I started um being an athlete uh with George and I had no aspirations of where to go, and I just loved training and I loved playing the game and I love being as physical as possible. And then eventually, after a few years, Steve Tutten approached me from the national program out in Adelaide. This is before that AS, it was uh team Team Australia Beach Volleyball.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

And he rang me, uh he contacted me at a at one of the state event uh national tour events and said, Hey, we want you to come to Adelaide, you've got six weeks to make your decision, talk to these people and see if you're interested in coming. So I had essentially two weeks to do it because I had to like bail out of a out of a job, which was four weeks' notice, and a house, and a share house, and all of these things. And and I think it took me a week to figure it out, and then I said yes, and I moved to Adelaide, and then I was curious as to why it took me a week to figure out why I wanted to do these things. Uh, and so then I I was part of the the daily training environment in Adelaide for six years, I think.

SPEAKER_04 5:50

How long have you been playing beach up until then?

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Uh I think it was I think I started indoor when I was 21 and I moved to Adelaide when I was 28.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Well, okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

So it'd been seven years, and I think it had been like maybe three or four years of beach training. I we used to train like six, seven, eight times a week, plus play indoor matches and yeah, yeah. Um and I was just just loved it so much. Plus working full-time and it was just just amazing, just amazing. The community, the people, the skills, the the athleticism that you got to to to bring. It was just uh it was fabulous. Uh and then to go into the daily training environment in Adelaide where you're they tell you what to do, they tell you where to go, they tell you what we're trying to work on, and how to go to the gym and how to lift things, and and then take you to tournaments overseas, and so many learning experiences that you take from these experiences what you can. Uh, I remember one time me and Pauly were in Shanghai, it was a one-event trip. So we went from Melbourne to Shanghai and they're back again. Um, and so the lesson that we learned was that so I I walked up to Frog and I was right, I was like, hey Frog, do we need to take a ball out to for our match? And he's like, You go and figure it out. And uh Polly and I, we decided we didn't have a ball, so we didn't take one down, so we went to the to the court and we sp we had like 30 minutes, 45 minutes to to warm up, and we spent the first 20 minutes looking for a ball. And so then we um we eventually found a ball, started warming up. We were cold, uh, it was windy, uh, we didn't play very well. We played against a team we probably should have beaten, and they beat us quite soundly. And the the lesson I took away was you always need to take a ball.

SPEAKER_04 7:46

Good lesson.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

My question is, my question always was, was the because I still remember that to this day, this would have been 2002. Um my question is, was the learning that I took away from that event that I always need to take a ball worth the cost that we paid for a single event tour, sorry, single events trip to get to Shanghai and play there and play there and not have anywhere to go to play another event while we were there. Was that learning that was that that worthwhile? Was that worthwhile?

SPEAKER_04 8:22

So how how long did you stay in the program for in Adelaide? I think I was in there for five years.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Five years, five or six years. Uh my knee gave out after a little while.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Um uh and so then I retired from that, stayed in Adelaide for a couple of years, uh, just working there. Just I I got jobs working around the world uh union, the world police and fire games, I think it was in Adelaide. I was the beach volleyball tournament director. I was doing a lot of coaching over there. There was a couple of things called open beach and open gym, where they would just have a venue and a coach who would turn up or two coaches, and then people would just come and then you would coach them. And it was amazing because you didn't know who was going to come along, you didn't know how many people you were gonna get, and then you just had some courts and some balls, and you would just teach them what you wanted to, and so it was just such a valuable learning for me, also, just as a coach, being able to be like, all right, I've got 45 people on two courts, how can I coach them? Yeah, and then you've got I've got you know six people on three courts, how can I coach them? What's the best thing that I can do here? What's my my my my learning that I'm gonna build from this from this environment? And it's something that I'm gonna do. Uh that was through VSA, volleyball South Australia. Nice. Uh and so the indoor was at a some indoor venue, and the the beach was on uh at City Beach. And if you don't know who City Beach is, it's just this amazing was this amazing venue where you know you have the cityscape of Adelaide and they plucked a high rise out and then throwing beach courts. And so the middle of the city where there should have been a building, there was four beach courts.

SPEAKER_04 9:58

Yeah, it's not there anymore, it's already yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

I mean, you you have to expect this thing wasn't gonna last forever. It was just such a yeah, another unicorn of of of uh bureaucracy. But how could how are you gonna end up with beach volleyball courts in the middle of the city? You know, you you hit the ball too hard and it bounces off someone, it goes over the fence onto the road, and then you have to go and pick it up in the middle of traffic, and you get some some dude in his board shots running across the road and ticking up the ball at so with with your time in is it fair to say, and I'm sure there's more.

SPEAKER_04 10:28

Your time in the national tour taught you to always take a ball. Yes, you've now been directing, I'm sure there's more, and you can fill that gap if you need to. Um, your time now running one of the biggest speech volleyball communities in Australia. What has that taught you about the sport?

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Uh it's it's taught me that you need to listen to the community. Like the community is the important people there. The the thing we're doing this for is the people. Uh, as a as a current ex and current player, I want people to have the most, the, the best experience to be there. I want them to come along, I want them to enjoy it. We do everything we can to make everyone as happy as possible because you know, if if they don't come, we don't get paid. If we don't get paid, we can't run it next week. And we want them to be happy, we want people to enjoy what they're doing. Like we we are an experienced company. We sell experiences, we don't sell a product, people don't get to come and play, and then at the end of the day, you get a t-shirt or a or a this or a ball or a or a medal. You get the experience of coming to the beach and pissing yourself in in our chosen form of of uh conflict against other people in a really safe environment so that they can they can enjoy the safety of where they are. And so that's what we've we've we've built is we've built this environment for people to come and enjoy. And and my job is to facilitate the the space around them. So my my biggest learning is I need to listen to what they want, I need to listen to what what they're after, and not not that they're gonna tell me all the time, but I need to pay attention to what they're doing and how they respond. And and people will talk to you with their money, they'll talk to you with their um attendance, I'll talk to you with their voice, I'll talk to other people in the hope that it comes back to to where you are.

SPEAKER_04 12:24

It's a really good point. I think that was one of the things because I I before Vic Beach was running the Beach Volleyball Tour for three years pre-2000 for Volleyball Victoria, and I think one of the things that I learned from the difference of that was working for Volleyball Victoria, you're getting paid, and so you're the the job that you do is kind of guaranteed you're gonna get paid, but as soon as Vic Beach happened, and there was the reality of a business where if I don't do a good job, I'm not gonna get paid. So there's a real okay, I've got skin in the game, which then means as a running a business, you've got to listen to people and make sure you're providing exactly as you're saying. I think that's a a big difference between the um the dynamic of being an external provider of when I say external, external to governing bodies. It's a real um, it's a point of distinction when when you're um you know you've got to pay rent, you've got a family to to to raise, you've got some skin in the game.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Yeah, I mean I spoke to I spoke to Baz years ago, years and years and years, and we were constantly looking to upgrade our equipment, our our processes, our systems. And I was like, hey Baz, we're looking, we're talking to um Josh Florence, who's our web design, web guy, and we're saying, hey, look, we're getting um, we want to get uh online um digital scoring going. And it was like, yeah, cool. And because he was uh, I don't know if he was running the um New South Wales at the time or is still working in uh in the big events, and I was like, Well, why aren't you guys doing this? Why aren't you guys having um iPads on every core with like Wi-Fi across the beach and having it all set up so that um so that it's super easy for people, and then you can you can see how long it takes the games to go and blah blah blah, and you can you can figure out when it's all finished and how long the breaks are and and you can have it online so people can be having a coffee at the beach, watching the game before them so they know when they're gonna come back, and you know, and Baz is like he goes, because you're a private provider, he goes, You have to make things the best, you have to make it the best you possibly can, and if you make it the best you possibly can, then people will come back. Yeah, but if you're running it for a government department, you know, you do really well, you get the same as if you don't do really well.

SPEAKER_04 14:46

Yeah. And there was an interesting little thing there because when we in the early days of Vic Beach, when we were doing well and numbers were going up, um, I had a direct conversation with a board member of V V who said, I I don't think you guys should be making any money out of this. You know, we should be the ones making money from from beach volleyball. And I was a little bit dumbfounded because I was like, well, if we don't make money, we we can't do the job. And if we can't do the job, and you've you know your president has said that you don't want the sport, you don't want management of the sport. But if you want us to do a good job, we kind of need to get paid for it. Um but it's a really good point there, hey, because you're kind of like you're looking from that business perspective to you you're constantly wanting to improve it and to make sure it's the best experience you can.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Absolutely. I uh I one of the one of the things the the thing I hate most about my job is the money. I hate asking for the cash. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get yeah. I mean, if if you know me, there's a very good chance I've given you a free heart or a free this or a free that's because I don't want to I don't want to ask you for the cash. Yeah, and one of the things that I got told a long time ago is that there's no shame in getting paid for sport. Someone needs to be there, and someone needs to to be doing a good job, and you need to be able to put you know food on the table for the family, you need to be able to put petrol in your car to get to these events. Um, and there's no shame in that. And it took me a long time to to figure out that there is no shame in in running beach volleyball well and then getting paid for it. Yeah, and the the issue for volleyball Victoria, the reason that Vicker Beach essentially exists, is because the people in charge of Volleyball Victoria wanted the beach tour, but the people that had to get up at five o'clock in the morning and come along when it was windy and cold and raining didn't have the same drive. And so, because of that, the job that they were doing wasn't as good as what could be done by private providers, which is why Chico and Greg went up to VV and said, Hey, can we can we take over? And then they were like, Well, we need to we need to figure out a good way to get the tool to work.

SPEAKER_04 16:57

Well, the response was absolutely because beach volleyball is a pain in the ass and it's keeping our staff from doing the things they're supposed to be doing. That was the direct quote from the president of the and I don't hold any grudges. Like on the inside, I'm like, you don't get it. On the outside, I'm like, fantastic, thanks very much. Where do we sign? Yes. Um, and I don't hold any any grudges for that. But that was the the stepping stones that led to you know the formation of Vic Beach.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Yeah, and it's an issue we're going through like at the at the moment, like every every couple of years, new um a new CEO of VV comes in and they were like, Well, we need to take over the beach. And like, well, you're gonna have the same issue where it is a financially good decision for you to take over the beach, but it is a horrible decision for the beach community for you to take over the beach because the people that are going to run the events do not want to be there, and even if they do want to be there, they you know they work nine to five, and then to then come in and do a day which starts at five in the morning and finishes at eight at night is uh is not what they've signed up for.

SPEAKER_04 17:57

Yeah, it's an interesting one, and I guess when that with a turnover of staff, it makes it pretty tricky. We we we might we might circle back to that, but uh what I wanted to ask you again, just with regards to the like at what point did you realize that you were doing more than running a tournament or coaching people? Do you know what I mean? At what at what point did you realize this is more than an admin job?

SPEAKER_00 18:20

It's when it's when the word community kept popping up. Because people like people post, they'll come over from uh from Europe and they'll be like, Beach volleyball is a very easy way to to meet people, it's an easy way to connect with uh a city, and so they'll they'll come along, they'll post in the Vic Beach group, and then you'll have someone who's not me respond to their question, being like, Hey, the Vic Beach community is this, and the Vic Beach community is that, and you can join a group here that will come down and hit and they'll join with this, and and you just see that people take ownership of of the people, of the group, of the community, of the the vibe that happens down here, and they just encourage people because they know that it's amazing. They'll be like, Hey, you should join in with that group because that's fun, or you should come along and do this because they're wonderful humans. And that that just you know triggered something in my mind that it's just like it's not it's not a job anymore, it's a community, and and I'm I'm the facilitator, I'm not the leader, I'm the one who just who kind of guides it into the position it needs to be into so that everyone is safe, everyone's happy. It's a it's a place that people want to come and spend the time. They want to come along and and meet people and and meet like-minded humans.

SPEAKER_04 19:39

And you probably just answered the next question because the next question was why is it that places like Vic Beach and Northern Beaches work? You've probably just answered that, just then it is it and it there are other pieces of the puzzle that you think. Well, why does Vic Beach and why does NBVA work?

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Well, I think it's a little bit to do with the the actual game that we play. Uh, there's it's a one-of-a-kind sport in that it's a separation sport, which means the teams are separated, but it's also a control sport. So control sport like football, like like soccer, football. Um, you have control of the ball, but it's not separated because you can have tackles and there and you need to control it around the people. You've got separation sport like tennis, but you don't have the control of the ball, so it's just a send it back, send it back. So volleyball is the only one where you're separated, but you still get to control the ball. And so we we run a thing called Republica, something you know about. It's a social forestide competition. It is the best thing that you can ever do on a beach volleyball court. It is 20 minutes of chaos, people have no idea what they're doing, they just come down, there's music playing, you're on secure to beach, the sun's going down, there's thousands of people everywhere. It's the most beautiful thing. Um, but there is absolutely nothing that you can get from it. So you can't be super angry and aggressive and hurt people, you can't come along and be the best player because there's there's nothing that you can get it. So you come along and you come along as a team, and you come along as someone who wants to join in and be part of building something with the other people on your team, and then we play this simple game of sending the ball backwards and cross forwards across the net. And then people just love it. And so we've set everything up so that you don't have to be there, you don't have to come back, there's no requirement. And so if we do a good job as the organizers, then people want to come back. And so we'll get we'll get 150 people coming along and playing on a night for two hours, and then after that, they go into the pub and they have some beer and the pizza and they talk about how amazing it was, and then they come back next week. And you know, and and if you've got something which is built where people can't get anything out of it apart from an experience, and then they love it and they value it, then they just come back. And I think that's the best thing. That we've built.

SPEAKER_04 22:00

I think it's a testament because that same model of Republica we started up here on the Sunshine Coast and it went from one court three teams, it rained the first night, the second night the lights went out. Um and now it it's it's foremost nights. And so for for us, you know, full uh at the moment with redevelopments going on is 50 people a night, and when it's back to being normal at 75 people a night, it's exactly the same thing. I hadn't actually put the I hadn't put the frame of this is the experience that people are doing, the experience of just playing with old friends, new friends, and having a good time for the for the joy of it. And it's a great place to work because while you're doing your thing, you're just surrounded by laughter and giggles and oohs and ah's and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

I I don't know if you remember Eastie, like Michael East. Uh-huh. Yeah. That that beast of a human. We used to because he used to be my two IC, and we'd sit there and it'd be freezing bloody cold, and the wind would be coming through, and we'd be head down working on the clipboards, getting all the games done, and because we'll we'll build like a like a 13-court draw with um on six time slots for 50 teams on the floor. On the spot, yeah. On the floor. And and Eastie, I'll look at him and he'll look at me, and I was like, Is it too cold? Do we go inside? And as you stop, you just hear people giggling, you hear them laughing, and you look up and you look at the balls flying, and it's you know, 40k wins, and people just have the best time, yeah. They just have the best time, and you're just like, Yep, we're doing the right thing, so we just go back down and keep doing it.

SPEAKER_04 23:38

So, how could entities like Vic Beach and MBVA do it better?

SPEAKER_00 23:45

I think we just need support, Chico. We just need support from the from the councils, it would be the main one. I mean, this is something we've we've talked, I've talked with a lot of people about for years. Is that imagine imagine if all the energy that we spent fighting with the council to keep where we are in terms of all of our infrastructure and and uh um and and things we use was used to go forwards. Imagine if all that energy instead of was just instead of just trading water and staying in the same position or fighting to stay in the same position, was used to go forwards. Imagine the imagine how good it could be. So one of the things that for example for us is that we have two storage trailers. Now, you are not allowed to have a permit for a storage trailer in the city of Port Phillip. Uh, you're not allowed to have a permit to park it in a in a in a zone. And so we were told that we were allowed to store our trailers, so then they're by the council, then we had this big kerfuffle with the councillors, so we had to go talk to the actual counselors rather than the people working in the council. And the I the idea is that we need to find a way to stay where we are. And so we eventually found one of the counsellors. The councillor then uh spoke to us about what we needed, what we've been doing, and then they spoke to the people that do the actual work and said, Can we find a way through this? They found a loophole in the type of permit that we had that said you're allowed to have a trailer. Then they said, Okay, we're gonna just modify it a little bit so that you can have two trailers. So we had two trailers that lasted for two years. After two years, we then get a phone call saying, Oh, by the way, your trailer permit fee is now a thousand dollars per trailer, and you're only allowed to have one trailer.

SPEAKER_04 25:31

Oh was that a new counselor or or new? Right, just changed, and it's I found that interesting because back like in Victoria from memory and the same up here is is like if you look at the you know the the the um vision statement of the council or all the all the dots that they want to do that they say they provide for the community, like we tick every box, nearly every box, you know, healthy lifestyles, and so we're doing that stuff for them. So I I hear you on that, but I think I cut you off. Please continue.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Yeah, so then they they were like you can only have one trailer on the beach, and so then we were like, okay, so now we uh okay, well let's let's find a venue, like a a like a road on the in the area that we could park the other one and we can just store it temporarily, and so now they're going down the path to say that uh you are not allowed to park a trailer for more than 14 days within 90 days on a lot of these roads, and so that's the new thing. So now we have one trailer that we're paying a thousand dollars for uh to keep it on the beach, um, and we've got the other trailer, we just don't know what to do with it, we don't know how we're gonna make this work because it's and and we just don't know the the outcome and we don't know how to make this work forward. But also, if you think about all of the brain work that it's taken to navigate these changes, that it just I could have we could have installed the uh the live scoring on the on the on the website by now and got that to speed, or we could have we could have worked with more sponsors to get more prizes for people on the beach, or we could have you know worked with the government to try and get the beach new nourished, or yeah, you know, and this is this is a this is the constant type of battle that's you'll just turn around, you'll be like, oh, they're like, oh, that thing that you're doing can't do it anymore.

SPEAKER_04 27:19

And I think it it shows the the vulnerability of a sport in many ways, isn't it? The fact that we're on public space, that we don't own the venue, we don't that there's no secure venue, like we're totally at the mercy of a council, and council will often change who's we are itinerant gypsies in the sporting world, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Yeah, and I think if we were at a football ground, because they have a ground which is built, um, and a and a venue, which is this is a football ground, whereas we go to the beach and this is a beach, but also a beach volleyball venue. Yeah, and that's the the difficult part is that we we don't have any we don't have any skin in that game, we don't have any you know ownership over that that venue. And so every time I drive down to the beach, I I'm always driving up Beaconsfield Parade, which is a long straight road, and I'm looking into the distance to see if our stuff is still there every day, every time I drive up for the last like 17 years, that's all what I'm hoping for. Is then you get there and you're like, oh cool, it's still here.

SPEAKER_04 28:17

Yeah, yeah. So the changing tack a little bit now when it comes to relationships within what you're doing. Like actually to go, can we can we take a step back just for a sec?

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Yeah, please. Um, so the the like I'm I'm 50 plus now, just yep. Um, and so I I have a little bit more of a um a little bit more of a overview of the way things work.

SPEAKER_03 28:41

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

And so it used to be I would be like, oh, stupid council this, stupid council that, why can't they just support us? Why can't they just help us out and and and get us into the position where we can do what we want to do? But what the council do is that they they have so many factors dragging them in in so many different ways that they don't do anything to make anyone special. They don't do anything to be like, hey, it's the beach volleyball guys, so we should we should allow them access to having two trailers on the beach. But if they do that for us, then they're gonna have to do that for the beach tennis, for the kite daughters, for the sup guys, for the you know, for every every person is gonna have to have that. And so the council spends so much time putting everybody into boxes, and they want to make the boxes as big as possible, that we, as like a definite unicorn on the landscape, don't fit into the box, and so the battles we have are always about us not fitting into the box that they've built, and that's the issue that we've got. So it's not them being like, Hey, we hate the beach volleyball, even though they do so much for us. It's always you don't fit into the box that we've built, we haven't made any allowances for your type of business. Now you have to make allowances to go into what we've built, and that's the issue that we get. I do think it's important that we're clear about the support's not missing, it's just that they they're getting dragged in so many different ways, and they're not open to the conversations to uh support what we need. Yeah, yeah, great point.

SPEAKER_04 30:23

And and steering now into uh the governing body of volleyball in the state. I mean, the the there's a lot of responsibility that comes from a governing body from you know sourcing funding and the the governance of many clubs associations throughout the state and risk management and keeping the consistency and so on. There's a lot of responsibility that governing bodies have to take care of. With you as an independent provider, an independent with contracts and relationships and so on. What what's your responsibility to them? Is there a sense of responsibility to volleyball Victoria?

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Yes and no. It's an it's an interesting uh relationship, and it's hard to define because like we have been here, uh like I've been here through so many different uh CEOs of Volleyball Victoria. We had a new one come in six to twelve months ago. Uh and so a lot of the relationships we have with Volleyball Victoria are handshake agreements. So we'll sit down and we'll have a chat and we'll be like, hey, this is how we're gonna move forward. Uh and then that doesn't get written down, which is I guess uh a flaw in in me being a relaxed human. Um it doesn't get written down, and so then when a new person comes in, they have their dreams and goals and and visions of how they want everything to work. Um and so our relationship with these guys is is difficult because we've done everything for ourselves for so long that they'll be like, Hey, can we help out? What can we do? And you're like, Well, I don't really think there's much that you guys can do to help us out because we're so independent and okay on on doing things by ourselves. And the other side, which is um quite difficult, is that sometimes they'll they'll be like, Hey, we can help with that, but then when they do try and help that, there was a we we had needed some help with the trailers for the council. They had a guy who who was into that space, and then he just went dark, and then so I rang the council, I rang up uh Volvoctorian and said, Hey, what happened to this guy who was helping us out? And they were like, Oh, he left. And then I was like, Oh man, like we we we've got something which we need, and then it just it never eventuated. Yeah, uh, and like we we don't actually need anything from them, and that is the difficult part because they're like, Hey, we want to work with you, and I'm like, Cool, we want to work with you too. So the relationship between Volleyball Victoria and Vic Beach is it's quite solid. We we do want to work with them, but we just don't know how, we don't know what we need.

SPEAKER_04 33:03

I think that's an interesting one, isn't it? The whole sense of because my next question was what how are they responsible to you? Like you, like what how are you responsible to them and they're responsible to you? I I think it comes down to that general curiosity to say, well, how can we serve you? I.e., how can how can I serve, how can I help them get better?

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Yeah, I mean, they they the the main conversation we have is uh around memberships. We uh we're required to if anyone plays on our tour, that they have a membership with Volleyball Victoria. So MBVA, which is the Melbourne Beaches Volleyball Association, organizes the the membership through Rev Sport, which is the website. Um, and so we do it. I think it's I think it was 45 bucks and then it jumped up to like 60 or 80, I can't remember. Um but there's no there's no tangible um items that are given back to the beach community from this money. And so the money is then absorbed into Volleyball Victoria, and then it's used for the things Volleyball Victoria needs. And and so they do things which benefit the the community, such as um referee development, coach development, um the you know, all the things that like I have a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04 34:32

The administrative duties yep.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Yeah, all the administrative things that they need to build, but none of it's tangible. None of it's actually tangible. So, you know, for for Petey who comes along and plays on the beach with us once uh once a year or twice a year, he doesn't see any of the benefit from these non-tangible VVI benefits to their memberships. They're paying like 80 or 90 bucks to come along and play two events plus the event fees. So it becomes quite expensive to to jump onto the beach um for something they don't actually see the benefit for. Because they don't they don't care if they're like number 340 on the rankings or 260 on the in the national rankings, and you know they have no interest in going play nationally, they don't want to do all these things, they just want to come along and spend a day on the beach. Uh, and that's that's the the the biggest conversation we have is is mainly just about this this membership.

SPEAKER_04 35:25

So so when it comes to that relationship, and I might go back because I think when we started, when Vic Beach and VVI started the relationship, we actually had an MOU. We we had a written document that was this is what we do for you, this is what you do for us, this is how we work together, these are our lanes. It was all very clear. I think just before I'm not sure at what level you were getting involved, but we're definitely we would have been just before I was leaving, so we would have been pretty deep in having lots of experience. We had a general manager of volleyball Victoria meeting it was a long term, I'd been there for 15 to 20 years with Bollet. And um and we went for a you know pre-season meeting and she said, Oh, have you seen this? And it was a sponsorship proposal from Volleyball Victoria. And we had a clear MOU that said that you know, we'll we'll manage the sponsorship. So, anyhow, so that was kind of when we we went back in and said, Well, okay, this MOU, if that's that's let's tear that up. And I I should say that we had a board meeting and and uh the said general manager was well and truly reprimanded for that behaviour. The board supported the fact that that wasn't a good idea, so I it sounds like I think I'd left soon after that, but it sounds like that agreement, that written document hasn't been recreated. Is that fair?

SPEAKER_00 36:52

Yeah, no, we we tried, we tried a few times with a few different people. Um, but it's not something that we've like me as Vic Beach, my my role was just to look after the players. My role is to make the tournaments better and and bigger and better and stronger. And if we didn't need anything from Volleyball Victoria at the time, then we didn't need to go down that path of the administrative extra work to make that happen. We never did. Uh and then volleyball, uh sorry, Melbourne Beach has got involved, MBVA, and so there's now a MOU between Melbourne Beaches and Volleyball Victoria, and there's an MOU between Big Beach and M and uh MBVA. Yeah, right, nice. Just saying this is this is what we're gonna do, this is what you guys are gonna do, and this is how it's all gonna work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:35

So do you do you feel as though the governing bodies, because you've also had some uh interesting relationships with volleyball Australia when it comes to volleyballs? We'll we'll kind of dig into that a little bit. From your perspective, uh the governing bodies has it been more of a is it a partnership? Do you feel uh an ownership? Is it a stewardship? Is it control? Like what's what's the essence of the of the relationships been from your perspective?

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Well, we've uh we've pretty much had a head down doing our job, doing our work, building our community, building what's here. Um the do you want the story about the balls from uh yeah?

SPEAKER_04 38:19

Let's let's go there. Again, I I should kind of pre-frame this. This is not looking for right or wrong, who's to play. We're looking for the general essence of how do we build a community together. But but paint the picture because it happened.

SPEAKER_00 38:35

So we um we were using the uh the Wilson, the mighty Wilson, and the Mikasa ball was the the one which is the world used on the world tour, it was world used in the Olympics, it was used on the national program. But we had uh we had a relationship with uh Wilson down here. Uh I believe it was Chico and Greg, the ones that uh developed that relationship, and so they would give us a bunch of balls every year. We would use it. Uh now the Wilson is a little bit heavier, it's a little bit uh um softer, it's a nicer ball to play with, it's a player's ball. Uh like I went I went to a Walter event in Norway one time, and I watched um Ricardo and Emmanuel play against uh a team on the semifinals, and the ball got served to Emanuel, who is like clearly the greatest player that's ever played the game in the men's, and the ball went to him and he just passed the ball into the stadium. And I was like, this is not what you want to see when you come to watch these games. You don't want to see someone doing a float server that looks innocuous, and then seeing the best player, the living legend, just pass the ball into the stadium. This is not what you want to see, and so and so it just reinforced with me that we should be using the Wilson, and so we used them and used them, and then uh we had a great relationship with these guys. Uh, even when when uh when you left and you and I was just the sole guy in charge here, um, we just continue with that. But the people uh at volleyball Australia signed a fairly uh binding contract with Macasa saying that uh everyone needed to use the Macasa. Uh and so this is not Macasa, uh sorry, volleyball Australia being, hey, we need to control what's happening with Vic Beach, we need to control what's happening in the States. They just they they look at the contract that was available, they signed it, and they didn't see all the far-reaching aspects of that contract, or they didn't um expect the the outcomes that were going to happen. And so then all of a sudden Macasa starts contacting Volleyball Australia saying, Hey, what's going on down here in Victoria? Why are these guys conforming? And we as a private provider had no requirement to follow the document that was signed by volleyball Australia. So eventually, after a whole bunch of uh conversations, they uh they decided that you know here's a here's a deal that we can provide to Vic Beach so that you can start using that, uh start using them to cast the ball. But the the main issue for us is that like if we run a minority sport, if someone wants to put money into it, someone wants to put product into it, let them let them support, let them support the sport. Like the more we have. So if if we get 100 balls from from Wilson and then MacArthur gives 100 balls to volleyball Australia, why don't you guys keep them and use them for your junior programs or your coaching or or something else? And we'll we'll use the 100 balls from from Wilson, and then the sport is 100 balls better off every year.

SPEAKER_04 41:39

Yeah, and if you multiply that around every state, then you yeah, and then you've got you've got two international brands in the market. Yeah. Um, as opposed to now, it looks like Wilson are kind of pulling back from their involvement in Australian beach volleyball after all these years, and it's a massive brand, and they're been squeezed out.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

Yes, yes, yeah, it's an interesting thing. And so now we've been using the the Wilson for show the Makasa for the last maybe 10 years now, I think. So what have you learned?

SPEAKER_04 42:13

Oh, is it going?

SPEAKER_00 42:15

And it is, it is like it's it's it's a good ball. People enjoy playing with it because they don't remember what the Wilson was like, but um, and it's also good for the people that go and play nationally uh because they get practice down here using the national ball, the international ball. But you know, the the Wilson was just uh such a better get ball to use down here, a little bit heavier, so it stayed in the wind a little bit better, it was easy to pass, it was better to set, and it stayed hit better.

SPEAKER_04 42:43

Yes. So so through that experience and the experience with VBI, would you did you feel that there was leadership there, or did you feel there was control there? Or what was it that you felt coming from? It was definitely control.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

It was definitely control. They weren't trying to to guide us to to be like, hey, let's let's use this. Here's the reasons why. It was just like you need to do this. You need to do this. I had someone, I had someone come up and talk to me and they said, You're ruining the sport in this country. I said, I don't I don't know if that's true. I don't know if that's true.

SPEAKER_04 43:16

Um but what was the perspective?

SPEAKER_00 43:21

Well, the they were saying that because of the contract that uh if we didn't conform, then MacArthur was gonna break the contract or something bad was gonna happen, and then you know, we needed to tow the company line so that you know everybody everybody got to move forward. Uh and so I had a chat with I think it was Andrew D at the time, and and he uh he organized a a deal with us that was comparable to what we're getting from the from the from Wilson, and we just we slid across to Macassar and we haven't really looked back since.

SPEAKER_04 43:56

Do you think these relationships and dynamics between Providers and governing bodies. Do you think that's unique to volleyball? Or is it a is it?

SPEAKER_00 44:05

I think like every time you talk to a to an athlete, they're always talking about politics and sport. Politics is the is the thing that kills is always and it's not I I like to think that everybody has a has a good side and always try and think that the reason people do things is a positive reason. And and you you want to think that politics, the people that involve Australia that signed the contract were signing it because it was gonna benefit more people. Uh and it just turns out that we were the ones that were gonna get affected the the greatest because of the we needed to change our ball. And I think Wombat was in a similar boat in Adelaide. I think he got squeezed out based on this ball issue, but they they want to do it for the right reasons. I don't think anyone is a is a is a dick, and they want to just be mean to everybody, and they're all they've got their head in the right position, they're all their hearts are going in the right direction. It's just that we uh we don't always have the same direction moving forward, is what or maybe weren't considered because it wasn't part of that national pathway.

SPEAKER_04 45:07

So and I agree 100%. I think it's there are good people doing good things for the the the boats that they're on, and everyone generally wants the sport to grow from their own own way. So how do you reckon we end up in these conflicts then?

SPEAKER_00 45:22

If everyone's all wanting the best for the sport, just communication, it's just communication, but you'd also like the the difficult part is you don't always know who to communicate with. I'm sure that when Andrew signed this contract with Macasa, he wasn't being like, Hey, I should bring up Bigger Gal and see how he's gonna go with this, right? I don't I don't think he's gonna ring up Volleyball Victoria and be like, hey, so we're gonna sign this contract with with volleyball with Macasa. How is that gonna affect your relationship with Big Beach? How's it gonna affect your relationship with Australian volleyball warehouse? You know, how like they don't look through every aspect of the contract to be to go down to the minute detail to be like, hey, I think that's gonna affect that person, I think that's gonna affect that person on a state, national, local level. And it makes it really difficult to do that. And this is the thing I understand from working with the council for so long is that you know, they're not trying to be mean to us, they're not trying to make their lives difficult, they're not trying to make things hard, they're just trying to find the best way for for everybody. They're trying to find the best way for everybody to move forward and to enjoy it. But that also brings us back to the point from earlier is like, God, imagine if all the energy we spent staying still we could use going forward, yeah. Not having these conversations about trailers and balls and and and beaches and and courts, and yeah, you know, imagine, imagine if we could use that energy. And you know, I've been doing this for so long that you know you you kind of get a bit burnt out by like what like I I don't want to waste. Yeah, I don't want to work with the council, I don't want to work with volleyball Australia. I want to be able to work with the people here. I want to I want to be if it's a volleyball Australia contact, you talk to them and you resolve it in you know 10 minutes, and then you go back to building tournaments and you make people happy, you make people happy on the beach.

SPEAKER_04 47:19

It sounds like the the two things that are jumping out of me at the moment is is one is this point of communication that you know we need to communicate better. The other one seems to be about trust, as far as that MOU that we had with Volleyball Victoria was like the the trust was broken. And I'm not sure if there's been any like real efforts to rebuild that trust. And and then if you have someone working on a certain aspect and it doesn't it isn't delivered upon, there's this there's this really um the thing around trust that seems really, really important to be able to build the link between can I mean it's clearly value in what Big Beach is doing and what MBVA doing, and there's there's people on the Gold Coast um you know doing external provider thing, I'm sure there are around Australia, but having that working relationship so we can all steer in the same direction, it seems like communication and trust are the the two key pieces of the puzzle.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

I mean, trust is I mean it's it's key for it's key for so many aspects of your life to go. Like you need to trust that the person that you're living with, playing with, working with, uh the organizations that you're dealing with are all having your best interest at heart, or at least someone's best interest at heart, so that we're all moving forward in a positive direction. And and ideally, if we can move in the same direction, then that makes things a lot easier. But as soon as you start doubting what people say or doubting what their interests are, then that makes things so much more difficult, makes it so much harder to travel forward, and then it burns your energy because you're then wondering about what they want and how to how to convince them that your way is the best way.

SPEAKER_04 49:09

And yeah, it's that's a tough one. It's a big one, and I think that comes down to the dynamic of controlling bodies or governing bodies versus stewarding bodies, where a steward would say, I'm I I want you to succeed. How can I, in my capacity, do all I can to help you succeed? What do you need, as opposed to I I want to tell you what to do and I want to get what you've got.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Yes. Yes. I mean, we um we build our tournaments to to help the people, to help the people play. Like we we've focused on on our triple A players for such a long time to help them get the best experience, to get the best games, to get the best everything we can, but also we need to build up the groups below them so that they are pushing the ones above them. And and the idea is that we we we work hard for these people, we work hard so that they they enjoy the experience and they get better out of it and they can actually expand as a as a human, as a as a and as a beach volleyball player.

SPEAKER_04 50:15

And how does that work for the juniors coming through? Because volleyball Victoria will manage the junior program, and I know you support that. That seems to be a common thread. Does that work well from your perspective?

SPEAKER_00 50:27

Yeah, look, we um we don't see them as juniors unless it's the junior tournament. So what happens is we will build our tournaments and say, right, so you know, Pete and Pete and James want to come along and play, we will throw them into the division which we think suits them the best. Uh the issue that we've got is we need to find a way to mathematically prove that they need to be into that division. Uh and sometimes we'll change the number of teams in a division so that we can get more teams in up or down, depending on where they're going, whether they're being AAA AA or A or B.

SPEAKER_03 51:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

Um and so our job is to try and develop and foster what they're doing, but we also don't want to have an under-19s tournament because some of the under-19s should be playing in the B's and some of the under-19s should be playing in the triple A's. And so we push them into the divisions that they should be in. Uh, the other thing that we did to look after them is that we changed the way that we do our seating policy to make it a little bit shorter because sometimes the coaches will ring up and they'll be like, hey Al, so Petey and James were training yesterday and they trained really, really well, so you should put them in triple A. And I'm like, Well, I've got you know a bunch of teams in that division which I can't move down because these guys trained well. I need to go back and look at the history of what they've been doing. And so what we did is we changed, we shortened the history. So it used to be 360 no 10 events, used to be 10 events, and so we run 10 events a year, so it's you know 12 months, but also we always have one which drops off because of the weather. So we normally run nine events, so it ended up being like 18 months worth of events that we look at to place people. So it takes a little while for the events because if they're coming up well, they might get a good event in the B's and a good event in the A's and a good event in the double A's, but it takes a little while for that B result to be dropped off the end of the seating policy. So what we do is we uh we shorten it down to I think it was six events or eight events, so it's it's only one year, maximum of one year. And so it makes it better for these for these juniors because as they're progressing so quickly through the ranks, I can say to people, look, these guys have done really well, so let's put them up, let's put them up into that division because that's where they deserve to be.

SPEAKER_04 52:41

I think that's a credit to you, Al. The thing that I've heard from talking to different people around Australia is it's like every state is different, has their strengths and weaknesses, and and Queensland is a state that has enormous tournaments and enormous capabilities around massive events. The thing that everyone says about Victoria is how much you care about the athlete, the player experience, whether they're triple A or B, as you've just explained, that there's a real sense of I care about your experience, which is a real credit to you. I think it's one of the things that make Vic Beach the you know, it's a good thing that it is. So thanks, one onya. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 53:17

The other thing we do for the juniors is we run a what we uh we call it the Vic Beach Futures event. And so the idea being is that just before they head off over to um Queensland for the Nat Junior Nationals, we run an event just for the juniors, uh, and so they get to put into play wherever they want. Uh, and then we encourage the adults, everybody, to join in as well. Nice, and so the idea being is that if you've got a cusp play team that's on the the cusp between the double A's and the AAA's, they put in for the triple A's because they need that experience. So we've got a mid-range double A and they want the higher experience, we'll we'll throw them up. So there's no points associated with this, and there's a little bit of prize money because that's what we do down here. But the idea being is that how can we support the juniors to come in so we make the entry fees a lot less so that people can not have a financial barrier to come along and support the juniors? And so we have this event every year that's just for the kids to to prep them for the for the upcoming big event.

SPEAKER_04 54:16

Nice. So um I've got two questions to go, unless other questions evolve out of this. Yeah, do you do you see how governing bodies can be a a partner of the community? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 54:36

The hard part is that you need to get the council to want to. So the two things that we look at, and so I've been to a few council meetings and I've sat there in the back. Um, and if you look through the history, none of them play beach volleyball. None of them do. But if you've got a guy that plays football, he's like, I remember playing football when I was younger, it helped me with this and this and this, so I'm gonna support that, and I'm gonna make sure they get looked after.

SPEAKER_03 55:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:01

Uh and we don't have anyone who plays beach volleyball.

SPEAKER_04 55:05

Oh, when I said governing bodies, I was talking about volleyball Victoria, volleyball Australia.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 55:11

You're talking council.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

I'm talking council, they're the ones that we we we deal with mainly. The from from volleyball Victoria and Volleyball Australia, we just like support would be the biggest one, that's all we need. So not having not having battles. So like our prices went up with uh MBVA and Volleyball Victoria uh last year uh significantly. I think it went up by like 40-50 percent for no benefit. Like no one sees a benefit from from this, no one sees a tangible benefit. So the money that gets given to MBVA gets split into two. Some some of it goes to MBBA and some of it goes to the council of uh VB. Now the stuff that Volleyball Victoria uh that uh MBVA holds on to, we use it to pay for the fruit that comes down every week. We use it to pay for referees who come down sometimes and and and talk with us. We we use it to pay for things that actually occur on the beach. There's an MBVA round, so we get prize money from MBVA. So the money that you put into your membership goes tangibly to what's happening every event.

SPEAKER_03 56:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:14

So if you go and get a like a banana or an apple or a piece of mango or whatever's on on uh on offer this week, thanks to big old Victor Guthrie, who goes down every week and picks it up and brings it back to us. Yep. Um, that is a tangible thing that your um membership money goes towards. Uh and so the the money that goes to volleyball is used for non-tangible things that a lot of these people don't see. Uh and so like what do we need from volleyball, volleyball Australia? I don't know, support on what we do.

SPEAKER_04 56:46

So if you if you could redesign, if if you could redesign the relationship between the governing bodies, volleyball Australia, volleyball Victoria, MBVA, Vic Beach, if you could redesign that, what from scratch, right? Pre-Vic Beach, what what principles would you base that on?

SPEAKER_00 57:06

Mate, it is I I guess the only way to do it would be to have people in the organization that focused on the different aspects that are required. So volleyball in Australia, they've got from my as a beach perspective, they've got two main things that they look forward. They look forward to the high performance athletes and what they do and what they build in international competition, and they look and they look after the um the national tour. They're the two main things that uh Vic Beach sees from them. So we don't see much that is turned around and looking back down to us grassroots community development. Um and so if they had people on their staff that you had someone who looked after high performance, you have someone who looks after the national tour events, and you have someone who looks after the relationships between Father Victoria, Vic Beach, MBVA, NBVA, the different community providers around the country, then you would have someone who could be like in a meeting where VA says, Hey, we should do this with the balls, and then they could move their head up and say, I think this is gonna have an effect.

SPEAKER_04 58:15

Right. Understanding sounds like the if if it's just a understanding and advocacy.

SPEAKER_00 58:21

Yeah, but also like we don't have anyone, we're so removed from volleyball Australia, we don't have anyone in those meetings that says, Hey, look, you know, that this is gonna have an effect on these people down here. How can we how can we change this? Or if we can't change it, how do we communicate it better so that the people who are you know dealing with with these changes can can be okay with it and find a proper way forward so they're not you know spending the mental capacity on fighting against the changes that have happened, yeah. And they can use that capacity to go forwards and make the events bigger and better.

SPEAKER_04 58:55

So, last question for you, Big L. You could push one button, and that button is going to improve the Australian beach volleyball ecosystem. What would the button be?

SPEAKER_00 59:08

Oh man, it's it's such a such an awkward question. Like, I um awkward's probably not the right word. I listened to Wombat, and he went through all the differences between all the different states, and I think it was so accurate what he said. All the different states are so different because of Queensland's enormous, and Tasmania's bloody freezing, and Melbourne's mainly focused on Melbourne. Uh Adelaide has the different training groups based on on where they've come through and what the coach would think of them. And so you there's no there's no one thing that's gonna work with all of them, there's no one thing that's gonna work with all of these people to make everything beautiful for them, and I think that's the beauty of what we've got going forward. So Vic Beach in Melbourne is amazing because you know you've got someone who wants to make things beautiful for the for the players, and I think it's if we if we had the support, the constant support of the volleyball Victoria and Volleyball Australia or the state sporting organization for them, and and we we just be like, hey, we need this to happen. How do we make that happen? And then Volleyball Victoria would be like, Yeah, that's a that's a great idea, but we just we just don't have that relationship with them at the moment. But also, a good national tour would be good if we had more prize money, more events.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:29

That's that's two buttons. So I'm I'm kind of getting what one button is is kind of the glue that binds all the pieces together, and the second button is a national tour. Maybe the second button is a result of the first button, who knows?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:40

I think so. Mate, if we if we all sat on the same bus, we all drove to the same same in the same direction, and us in the back of the bus were working on community, the people in the front of the bus were working on uh on high performance athletes. Imagine, imagine if we were all going in the same direction and then our decisions supported them, their decisions supported us.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:02

Yeah. I really think that's the evolution of this federated model because you could uh there's a little bit of talk around, hey, we've got to change the federated model, but it's kind of like it's what our country was founded on. Yeah, what one of the beauties of when you go to Switzerland, for example, is like it's a Swiss national tour and they're that's they're heading in their direction, and across the border, you've got the French national tour and they're going in their direction, and you the German national tour and they've got their thing, but in Australia, we've got this cafhony of different people doing different things and different governing bodies doing different things. So I love the idea of that bus and how we get to that point. Um I'm gonna go back to the other things that little jewels that came out of this. How do we get to that bus? Through understanding and trust, communication, communication.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:47

So I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure Pegs is gonna have my wife Peg is gonna have a bit of a giggle when I talk about communication.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:54

You learn what you teach what you've got to learn.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:57

But um I think I think it's it's important to understand that all these federal these different models in the different stats, different countries. I've spent a lot of time over in in Europe. Um, we just spent you know four and a half months last year in in Germany, and I spent a bunch of years back in Stuttgart, um, a few years back. And when you look at the outside, like if you look at the national pro national tour here from the outside, you're like, yeah, it's cool, it's good. But if you have a closer look, and and the same as the German tour. If you look at the German tour from the outside, it's good. But if you look at the politics and the people running it, and there are there's so much politics going on, there's so many battles with people just trying to trying to stay where they are rather than trying to move forward. It's uh it's it's it's global the issues that we deal with.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:42

Very good point.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:43

Very good point.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:45

And on that, Big L, I want to thank you so much for your time, your perspective. And uh, I'm sure there'll be lots of people listening to this um from uh around Australia. So thanks for sharing your insights there, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:59

It's been a pleasure, Chico, and uh congratulations on what you're doing. It's a wonderful thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:03

Oh cheers, mate. I'm enjoying it thoroughly, so bye for now. Next on the samurai shift, I'll be joined by Andrew Schott, a person who has been involved with high performance sport for nearly 40 years, including two Olympic Games and a World Championship podium. Andrew has been involved with high performance coaching for nearly 20 years now, and I'm very much looking forward to our conversation. I hope you'll join us.