Watches & Wonders 2026: THE RECAP | S02 EP03 Four Married Men Podcast

Welcome back to the Four Married Men Podcast, now live from the Subdial Clubhouse. No screens, no filters, and no holding back.

Jake Ross - https://www.instagram.com/amanintime
Salim Hammad - https://www.instagram.com/thedeadbeatseconds/
Justin Hast - https://www.instagram.com/justinhast
Tim Green - https://www.instagram.com/_timgreen_

Who actually won Watches & Wonders 2026—and which brands missed the mark?

In this episode of the Four Married Men podcast, the boys are back from Geneva (except Jake) with a full Watches & Wonders 2026 recap. After seeing the new releases in person, they break down the biggest launches, standout watches, and the brands that defined this year’s show.

From Rolex, Patek Philippe and Audemars Piguet to the most talked-about independent brands, this episode covers the key releases, industry trends, and the watches everyone will be chasing in 2026.

Expect honest opinions, collector insight, and a few controversial takes as they rank the winners and losers of Watches & Wonders 2026.

If you’re into luxury watches, new watch releases, and in-depth Watches & Wonders reviews, this is your complete recap of the biggest watch event of the year.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

We've got Tim today coming in. Sorry, tough enough.

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Yeah. Well, fucking toothpaste down my top ticket.

SPEAKER_04 0:10

We got a quick clean of this top 30 already. I'm not good.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Right. Welcome back to the podcast. And I mean the first thing I'll say is, Justin, why have you got so many watches in front of you?

SPEAKER_02 0:31

It's it's like Christmas morning. You know that kid that snuffles all of the presents, even if they're not theirs.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Oh my god. Anyway. I can't be it's the problem is it's trying to trying to herd these these people and when there's so many watches in front of you is really, really difficult. And Justin's just grabbing things left, right, center, things coming out of boxes, out of pockets, you know, you just don't know. And then all of a sudden we've got four watches in front of you, one on the wrist. Um we've got Tim today coming as SAS Are you tough enough?

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Uh yeah. Well, um, fucking toothpaste down my toe, Justin.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

We had a quick clean of this talk, don't you worry. I'm all good.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

Right. So throw stones at me.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

I'm gonna cover off the agenda very, very quickly to start with, just so that people know what what to expect. And we have all, other than Jake, been to Watch and Wonders in uh one way or another. So you two, as part of the watch industry, I'm good, you know. You I think Justin, you're definitely a watch journalist. I think you're you know, you're stretching that stretching my room again, influencer and and you've been you've been there as as with subdire and zenith, haven't you? Um yeah, yeah, and you'll snored down. And you'll snow down.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

So yeah, we were we were part of the press team this year, which was neat for us. That's really nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Yeah, it was cool. And I was invited by Langer uh in Frankfurt, which was amazing to see on a press day. So I spent a bit of time with the two of you. Um and Jake, you were at home looking uh looking in, feeling a bit left out with like sick kids.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

No one wants to hear about my week, but I just had like loads of really intense work, stuff I forgot was needed that week, and then my whole family were as well. So I was just yeah, I was I was in the trenches. Um and and you know what? I've never actually been that fussed about going. Like I like vintage over kind of more modern stuff, and I've always thought that. But this year, with all these things, it's about the people, isn't it? And I was like, no, no, I want to just be with you guys to go and have fun and and and look all this stuff. So yeah, it was it was it was a longer week. I got Goodwood members meeting in there, which I think I arguably might even trump watch some models, if you like me. Uh good, good.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

And it doesn't so so firstly, firstly, we're gonna we're gonna cover off our wrist checks because we're all wearing the watches we were gifted by Tim that Easter Bunny, the the the the chocolate pouches he was laid, and and as you can see, Tim has refused to put it on.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Um we should say actually though, if for anyone who didn't stay till the end of the last episode, that will this will not click. Yeah. But we were all given a watch by Tim at the end of the last episode that we're all wearing today.

SPEAKER_03 3:09

I think we were all agree that I was particularly kind. And we we we chose one for you. Yeah. So you came to wear it. You guys were what's the opposite of kind? Nasty. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Mean, that it was that. So we should probably come clean, shouldn't we? We should probably come clean and say that there was a cliffhanger at the end of the last episode. Yes. But there was also a technical glitch which helped us, right? So it worked, it all came together perfectly, George. We should move to tell them that. No, no, no, no, no. It's absolutely right. And and it worked out perfectly because we were like, actually, that's that's that's the perfect cliffhanger for this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and and so what have you got there, Timbut? Just tell us what it is. This is a Hoya Monaco um it's an early one, I think.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

60s, yeah. 60s. Um I have nothing good to say about it. Objectively, it's a nice watch. Like it does all, you know, it's got heritage, it's a tour watch, it's iconic. But for me, it's just like this awful, unrefined block of stainless steel on my wrist that I can't keep it on for more than five minutes without taking it off because it makes me feel cross. Why? Like, I I'd say I was a part of the team that picked it up.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Comfortable. When you say a part of the team, you were George. That's not true. Yeah, well, we drove it. You're gonna be aware of it. George did all the work. I just said I'll be able to. We didn't have another option, didn't we? I can't quite remember what the other option was. Speedmaster Ultraman.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

Have you seen how that fits on a wrist?

SPEAKER_02 4:40

It just it's it's not is it not like unashamedly itself? Like it's not supposed to be a cartier.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

No, but I don't even think it's supposed to be a watch. It's just a fucking block of shit. And I hate it.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

I've actually never handled one. Can we just say it's available now at Stubborlift? Right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

That was strong, but I'm feeling a bit um um unwell.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

I I actually like the colour of that doll, and the brush finish is is is is nice. I think the strap's not doing anything. It's abominable. The strap strap is as thick as the watch, which can't help. I hate those middle, like the plumped up middle. You know, either go go thick and go something something textured, or ultra thin or whatever is an abominable strap. Is it after no? It's the original. It's it's a Hoyer.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

The Hoyer by Tag Hoyer, it says. I mean, look, it's not as I agree with you, Jay. It's not trying to be anything else. It is what it is. The crown needs to be on the other side. A good word members me. You you would have definitely seen one of the two of those at Goodwood. 100%. I'm sure you did.

SPEAKER_03 5:41

But that's just most car guys, I would say, don't know good watches. I I just don't. Uh if you're a proper car guy, then you're like, oh, I want a Steve McQueen or a, you know, I don't, all of that iconic and obvious stuff. But if you really know watches and you've had so many on, and I I'm really lucky that I have, I know that I like slim cases. I know that I like under the radar um designs, and that's so unrefined.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Well, what did you what did you think it said about you as a because I think one of the things that we we wanted to do is push each other's boundaries with watches that are perhaps new or something that we wouldn't have thought about. Do you think there's something about that that you thought maybe it says something about me that I don't like? Or is it just design that didn't quite do it for you? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

I don't I don't I'm not worried about what it says about me. I'm strong enough character to to know that, you know, I could wear I mean I've literally just bought a Timex. I I don't care what I wear, as long as it feels good and I enjoy it aesthetically, and I neither feel good or enjoy it aesthetically.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

I really learn it down.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

Like it's underneath slap side, like it's it's so unresfined. Quite sharp. I'm sure sharp is usually a good thing. I think in this example, it's just it just makes it even worse.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

A highly polished vodka would be a better solution.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

I think so. Round it down until it's about fucking 36 mil, and then you know, maybe we can have a conversation. People you often talk about diameter, but the lug to lug's quite nice, I'd say. Like you should get that. You should totally get it. Yeah, you get it and enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

Sounds sounds like it might be getting cheaper. I like it on you, Jake.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

I I really do. Yeah, have you tried on? I just see I'm I think I'm all right.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

Come on. Come on. Like uh objectively, it's not a bad watch. It's just not for me. I don't have the wrist for it.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

What's the longest you wore it for?

SPEAKER_03 7:47

Four minutes?

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Did you time it on the crane? Be honest, Tim. Did it actually leave these premises?

SPEAKER_04 7:53

No.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

A week on the wrist, or was it four four minutes on the wrist?

SPEAKER_03 8:00

I'm not wearing it. So we failed it makes me feel sad.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

And I'm not uh good enough. Well, so we failed utterly with Tim then, and um I think that's that's good feedback, at least to know that this is uh, you know, this is not something that's that that that really pushed your boundaries. You would make me feel crazy.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

If we can give him a blue dial next time, I might.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Well, talk talking about blue dials, you got uh a really nice show par quattro. Um and I was interested to see how that would sit with you compared to your salmon. And I'm gonna be completely honest. Um, when Emma rewatch Emma, my wife rewatched the episode with me. Um everyone knows Emma by now, yeah. The the better half. Um and the clips that will be coming in this episode, we can't they'll know them even better. They'll know even better. Yeah. Um she immediately said, Oh, I like that on Jake. A blue dial suits him. And she said the salmon just didn't work with his skin tone.

SPEAKER_03 9:00

This is exactly what I said. Yeah. I'm right, man.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Then we're right. So let's see.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

I've been trying so hard to like consolidate my thoughts on this, and and it's really difficult. So I've had had the blue dial and the salmon dial, obviously, one's 36, one's 38. This has got the big um eight-day power reserve on the dial as well. Um, I have found this. Oh, sorry, I'm gonna say initially, I agree with the blue dial thing. I'm like, okay, it just became more wearable to me at more times, and I just felt really happy wearing it. And I mean that in like uh I just felt comfortable. Like, I just most days, but of course I'm gonna put that on because it's just great and it works my life and it suits me. So I felt really torn about this. I want to know how you guys feel about this. It's got an eight-day power reserve on the dial, which I actually found is a super helpful uh complication on the watch. Totally. Like you can see it, like even just having it last eight days is brilliant. But I find that bit of the watch ugly. And I'm I'm like reserve bit. The power reserve bit. So I'm like, oh, I'm annoyed that the one it's probably the first complication where I actually pay attention to. Like, I wear a speedy, I rarely am like timing things with the chronograph or you think if they cool that down slightly, because it's quite hard up on the dial, isn't it? In some way, if yeah, that's what Grand Saka do all the time. There's a bit on the back, put it on the back sometimes. It's helpful on the front, like you see the front of the watch when it's on your edge.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

You don't need it every eight day, you know. If you look at it once every eight days, you don't need it from the center. It's a really, really tall on that side. The red, maybe also throws it off balance. We've got this beautiful blue dial with just a little bit hints of white, and then you've got the red for the for the end of the power reserve.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Imagine if the logo wasn't there and it was pulled down in line with with the sub-dial there, so there was a bit of a bit of harmony. That for me has always been the thing. It's just seemingly very high up on the the the dial. That's it. I'm I agree with you that it's slightly jarring. So and and and like from a wearability perspective, whilst they're very, very similar watches, I kind of put them in like Langer 1 category, 1815 category for the 38-36. And I felt I was wearing the salmon dial to dress up a little bit, and I was wearing the 38 just as more of a daily um enjoyable watch. Value-wise, it's obviously half the price of of a salmon dial like or or the blue dial, actually, in the 36mm. I think it's amazing value. Uh, I was actually out for dinner last night with a couple of friends who are like interested in watches, but I wouldn't say they're watch guys necessarily. So I just showed them, I was like, I'm gonna be talking about this on the podcast. Like, what do you think? They loved it, they were like, Oh, I love the heft. I said, What what do you think it's worth? Like, how much what what's what would someone pay for that?

SPEAKER_03 11:44

There we go.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

One said 30 grand, the other said 35 grand. Oh wow, and I was like, Yeah, like you're pretty spawned. But I was like, you can buy it for 11 grand uh from subdarmers. When they turned over and they saw that movement, because that that that that that architecture, that movement, that finishing is stunning. The way it feels the case. I love that movie. It's actually one of my favorite movements ever. So like I I I feel like I've got a bit of news. We spoke last time that maybe maybe I'll do a bit of a swap, but I've actually I've taken another direction, blue dial power reserve, which I've told some people about, but haven't told everyone about. And I I may know this because I got a message from a friend. Oh, I knew it, I knew someone would spoil it. So I ended up buying the blue dial Langer one, uh, which is essentially Where from? And uh where do you think from? Oh, okay, from from Timothy. Timothy did promise to me a deal. Uh it could have done me more of a deal to me, uh I'm delighted to see a Langer 1 back in your collection. I'm delighted. I'm delighted. So the the these watches are kind of like quite similar. They're both 38, they're both blue dialed, they're both time with power reserve, interestingly enough. But the the Langer One just felt like an even more kind of me watch, is what I'm gonna say. And yeah, there hasn't been one of the collection before. So it's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

I it when you say it's a me watch, um, there are immediately watches that I think about when I think of you guys. And with you, Tim, I think of Cartier, obviously. With you, I actually think of Lauren Ferrier. I I I don't know what it is, but Lauren Ferrier is maybe it's because of the work you've done with them um and things. And Langer One is what I think of with you, Jake, whether it's your 027X, and I think it does really resonate with your personality. And I I feel like you feel comfortable and at home with a Langer 1 on the wrist, regardless of what configuration, whether it's you know, uh a rose gold or an 027x or and and I really want to stress this because I think we we've talked about Langer a lot, but I really do think that every Langer One is special, regardless of the configuration. Um, you know, we were out for for dinner with Wes uh from Standard H in uh in Geneva, and he was wearing a white gold, you know, 1910 uh O26, and it was it just looked great. Yeah, it did. It looked brilliant, you know.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

That's that's fresh. I I actually tried on that exact watch um in here like a week or two ago, however long ago. And I was thinking, oh, you know, it's the white gold, and we spoke about the loom, like should you get one with a loom? And I was like, oh, I just forgot how good just any Langer 1 is, which also gave me a bit of the push. Um, so yeah, I I'll I'm a happy man. Um critically, like it's a super early blue dial, it's small mig um full set, which which is amazing. It's actually one of the few, no, not one of the few references I haven't owned. It's I've owned a handful of Lango One references, but this was the one I originally wanted. This is what like kicked it off. Um, I remember basically when I first met Tim six, seven years ago, have along. And you were talking about blue dial Langer One prices kind of around the world, and they were next to nothing. And I just never quite managed to get one to work. So yeah, to have one in the collection feels um feels feels really special.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

It has a lot of the um the DNA of this quite special 25th anniversary model with uh the just the blue hints in this and the blue that we've got there, um for 15k cheaper, probably. You know? Yeah, yeah. So I I I brilliant blue, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 15:24

There's blue and then there's there's blue, and there's lots of different but the contrast of the um the sub-dials against that brush finish of the main dial itself.

SPEAKER_03 15:33

And the blue of the 101 reference versus the 191, it's night and day. Is the the the earlier one is the one to go for, I think.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

So yeah, I mean, but truly, like, I mean, it's all watches really, but like my mind has been messed by kind of almost all three of you going like, oh, it's is the salmon the one for you? Like, maybe blue dial's better. So wearing this was amazing, but it probably gave me the push I needed to take that step to this. Um, I feel like we don't have to say you've just lagged off a subdar watch for a long time, but but the idea that this is 11 grand is actually amazing. So I think if you're someone who's currently like buying Rolex or something like that and wants to get into that first step into that next world, this is probably one of the most affordable ways you can get something of that quality and that feel.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

Particularly with what they're asking for the new LUC um with a blue dial in steel.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Well, we can we'll talk about that. We'll talk about that a little bit. We'll talk about that. But I actually wrote an article on on my Substack uh about the new show pardon and there was a very astute commenter uh underneath who commented and said that the thing about these show parts is that they're actually better than anything Patek are releasing at the moment in their Calatrava lines, which is a big statement. But when you look at the LUC movement, the micro rotor, the gear shea finish on the dial for a third of the cost to something like this. You know, it is it is a good proposition. I don't know if I quite agree about the um uh the calatrava reference, but to be in the same conversation, I think is interesting.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

I think it feels better and winding it feels better to me. In in it's all of the show parts I've felt, I'm like it's when you hold them at first run, I was like, oh, it feels proper. Like this is feels great. Can I tell you, can I ask who who spilt it? Who told you? Um the gentleman who acquired the um the salmon doll. Yeah, yeah, he he slid in and said, Because originally when I mentioned, I think I told it to you, he said, God, I would have you know, I would have paid you a lot more than Jake paid you uh for it. No. He's like, I was desperate for that. And I didn't realize I didn't realise he was. I didn't realise he was. Um lovely man, great collector. In fact, he came in and picked up um a few bits from you recently and said, And he's got a very cool car. I think this is fantastic. I really do. I'm curious about the show pub because I spoke to a friend about this um 1860 a few years ago. He was like, I want to buy one, but I don't know about the show pub brand equity, was how he put it. He was like, Why are they not more popular? Why do we not hear more from them? Why do they not garner better returns on the secondary market? I couldn't quite put my finger on it because Col Frederick Shuffle, the man there, he's a very elegant man. He's won lots of awards, a GPSG for whatever that's worth. Um they're in the mix the whole time, but they're not, they're they're just not really. They're just not. They're they're somewhere on the outside of the play, even though their booth is literally opposite um Judo and next to Patek and Rolex. I mean, they're there, they're literally geographically, but in our minds, and I think people coming in through the doors in boutiques around the world today, it's like they're not really in people's minds, which is quite interesting. It is doing the main thing though, which is making a good product. Really good product, which is like that's surely where you've got to start. You gotta start just got to get everyone to feel it. So you're in their back pocket right now, Swim. I've seen your recent pickup.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

I mean, I I uh you got a I got an LUC uh travel case from Show Pard, which is really nice. I don't have a Show Pard inside it. Um, but they gave me a really nice kind of two-watch roll, which is which is great. And um I had a really good experience with Show Pard. Uh and it was actually probably my first time really digging deep and getting hands-on with their products, getting to see the really rare market, like straw marketry stuff, which was amazing, the enamel jump powers. Um, and actually, I preferred that stuff to the 1860. Um, but you know, we'll we'll cover that off um in the Watch and Wonders segment. Um, but just in you got given a lovely zenith daytoner, which I think is probably most a lot of people's dream watch. Imagine being given a zenith daytoner um to test to test drive for two weeks.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

I'm so nervous for what he's gonna say.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

And I I'll should say one thing is that we've been really careful not to let the cat out of the bag to each other about what we thought. I mean, we knew what Tim thought. Um I thought Tim was gonna wear it for more than four minutes.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

Yeah, I knew it wasn't leaving this building. Yeah, I knew Tim wasn't leaving this building.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Um, but so I'm in I'm really interested, and and uh people have have also been DMing me and saying, what did Justin think of the Zenith Dayton? They people are waiting to hear your first role X.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

I'm nervous, and I've not published, you know, I I I think we were also conscious not to talk to each other about these things, but also not to publish anything online about maybe what we had, because we wanted to keep it a secret. Now I I I recognize all those things, especially about the fact this is a grail. You know, I'm I'm conscious of that. This is an absolute grail for anyone at any point in their collecting journey. Um a Rolex Daytona, Patrizzi dial Zenith Daytona. And when I got it, you saw my excitement. You know, I was genuinely excited because I've never ended a Rolex.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

I am on the lookout for a Rolex that resonates with me. How long have we had this for? How long have we had it for? A couple of weeks, couple of weeks, maybe a month now. Coming up to three weeks.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

Three weeks. I have not put it on once. Not once. And I've not been inclined to put it on either. I I genuinely never reached for it once. I did at home, I had it on at home when I arrived home, and Nat's response, so I have got it on video, I have got this on video where I told her, look, this is coming in and it's got a Zenith movement, by the way, and she just got up and walked out of the room. And I tell you why, and I tell you why, not because the product's not fantastic, I know the product's fantastic, the bracelet's lovely, the the feel of that vintage you feel, I love the clanginess of it, I love all of that. I love the aged subdials.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

I look down at it and it's not me. It's not me, it's not me.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

It just doesn't feel right, it's not me, it's someone else's wrist. And it could be any of you boys, and I would have thoroughly enjoyed seeing it. I genuinely had to fight. And I tell you this, this is this is it, this is the truth. This is the truth. If anyone was ever wondering if we're in the pocket of Eddie Brads, this is the truth. I got it out of the watchbox, I put it on my wrist. This happened three or four times. And I said today, this is like a Saturday, Sunday. We've got a little coffee. We've got a little walk in the park. I'm gonna wear it today. I got downstairs, took it off, and put something else on. That's the absolute honest truth.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Is it the feel? Is it the feel on the wrist?

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Is it the feel on the wrist was good? I would say that because I've been wearing this mid-size religious, so it's the same size as this two-tone, I've fallen in love with this size and I feel very comfortable. I might get some pushback on this because this is a 40 millimeter watch. This is 36 millimeters, but whereas bigger, it wears a 38 or so. And I and I love this size now, I've fallen in love with it. Whereas I'm not thinking, this is not actually where I'm at my happiest, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:34

You know, it for for me looking at you, that looks absolutely perfect on wrist. And you know, I I really think Tim's tried his best there because you've got, in my opinion, the best of other than the four-digit Daytona, you've got the best of a Daytona there with the Zenneth. And the the sub-dials are that little symmetrical. I think Tim's really tried there to give you a good Rolex experience. And I'm a bit sad. I'm I'm actually because I'm a I'm a Rolex.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

I just I just I just feel like we're trying to give uh helpful views of on the wrist. And Tim even more on the watch. No, no, no, no, no, no, but it's not through lack of effort. I I'll say that. I'll say that. No, no, same with me. It's not through lack of effort. Tim Tim, you've given up on it. You're a you're a disgrace, you're a disgrace on every level. I tried my absolute best, and you know, I really did. I I I put it on three times, four times. There is also interestingly, there is talking of Wobble because before we started filming, we were talking about shake it, you know, the movement and stuff. There is a fair whack of stuff going on in here. Like it's not a kind of probably when you were shaking it at the end of the last episode. Oh, you know, is it it's not it's not a can of Skittles, but it's it's it's not there's something in there. I like the buckle a lot. It's probably the end. I really like this buckle a lot.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Um Wow, you're clutching its drawers on you. I've got a question for T. It's not me. It's not me.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

And you know, Nats, your C Nats response to it. I I when when we met last time, I had my 36mm Explorer. And it really suited you. Yeah, I like that. I don't quite like that. Do you think you would have enjoyed that more than this? Yeah, I do. And I think because this is so interesting enough, because I actually think this is so quintessentially Rolex. This is undeniably Rolex. What I'm drawn to when it comes to Rolex is um there's a GMT nipple dial at the moment, the gold gold case with with a strap, and then there's um a 1019, which we tried on together. Uh an old milgas at 38mm. So those watches, I'm thinking, okay, that's interesting. I did even ask for like I was did I ask for this? I think I I think I might have even asked to see this because it's so bizarre. Um, and it's so unexpected, you know, that I might even have enjoyed that. But this is for audio only. Solid gold sub. Solid gold sub. Solid gold sub. But this is so quick. What you've done here, Tim, is you've given me the absolute epitome of what a relics is at its very best.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Very best. And I thank you for that. I don't for a second want to be seen as unappreciative for it, because I'm I'm just not. And I'm so delighted to have it, but it's not up on my radar as a as a as a as something that I want. Um, and I'm so delighted to have had the time with it. So few people get that chance, which we've had. So that's my feedback, boys.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Well, uh, I think um getting the experience, whether positive or negative, is really important to know. And I think to people out there who may also be thinking about jumping into either their first Rolex or their first Daytona, you having that experience as someone who doesn't really play in that field is probably quite valuable. And being able to give that open because most people, when they do a review like that of something like a Zenith Daytona, it's after putting their own money down and owning it. And sometimes you feel a bit embarrassed to say, actually, I've spent 20 odd grand on this watch and it it it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

We were talking about this, Salim, before we started filming, and I think this is something that we're we're genuinely excited about is that you and I particularly go through lots of different watches, and that's what we're here to do. That's what this episode, this show is all about is going through as many experiences as possible, sharing legitimate, honest feedback. I'm not sure there are many Zenister 10 reviews out there that will say, I struggled. I fought tooth and nail to put it on my wrist. Fought tooth and nail to put it on my wrist. Your life is hard, isn't it? 40 millimeters, 40 millimeters in titanium. It's really hard, but I'm slightly, you know, okay, we're going to talk about this slightly later on in the episode because Salim's got some questions he needs answering about the sport auto. But this feels very much at home to me. Now I'll tell you why, because I look down, I see that name on the dial, and I feel associated to that name on the dial, which is off the beaten track. I feel that represents me better because it's a bit oddball, it's a bit unusual, it it requires a bit further inspection from anyone who wants to who can be as uh that way inclined to ask. Um, and I'm like, yeah, good. Boom. Okay, cool, cool, cool. So there we go.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

So I mean, we've we've got almost three negative reviews here, which is Well, well, well, I'm not negative.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Well, it drove him into a purchase. It drove you into a purchase. Just wait, it's true of a different watch. Of a different watch, but something that's been inspired by us. I uh like I just feel very fortunate that I could afford this. If I couldn't, uh then she would have swap them.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:06

Yeah, okay I I cannot champion that watch enough.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Okay, fine. So we got two negative reviews, a positive review, and um I guess that'd bring you on to me. Potentially two purchases as a result as well, but go on. So I mean, um so Tim, you you you you are super kind with this. I mean, I saw one of the comments uh under this last video, and he just said, you know, as your first Cartier to be given a 100th anniversary centre, is you know, it just doesn't get better. It does not get better than this. And I have been someone who in the past, Cartier for me, actually I've seen it more as a high jewelry brand rather than a high horology brand. And you know, not to, you know, not to and this is how I had seen it over the last you know, uh 10, 15 years of collecting. And I wonder whether that comes from the you know, just before the CPCP era where they were making lots of ladies' quartz watches and things, and that's just how it stuck in my mind as a jewelry brand. And I've been Cartier Curious, but never enough to pull my own credit card out. And this has changed that for me. I put this on and I just couldn't believe that the centre. Honestly, when I s the first time I put it, I saw it in in person. It's the the curvature of the of the watch, it's the slimness, the colour of the style, which is just like age department, the bregay hands, um, e even the cabuchon on the uh on the on the crown, it's just it there's just it feels like there's so much heritage there, so much history there. Yeah, um, and it really, really, I put it on and I I have loved it. Honestly, I have absolutely loved it on my wrist. And I look down and I see it, and I just sometimes I just stare. Um and Emma Emma responded well as well.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

She loved it as well. She the video we ref I referenced earlier will not be going live, unfortunately, based on the could you explain what can we say what the video is? I think we can, right? So you sent us a video of Emma uh in in your um matrimonial suite. Um and she was in bed. I don't know, was it before bed or in the morning when she woken up or she was in the middle of the year?

SPEAKER_00 29:20

No, no, it was straight after I'd got home from uh receiving this late night. She was going to sleep, she was going to sleep, and I I burst in from I burst in from the airport. So excited with it. So excited with this watch, and I just said, Emma, look at this. And her immediate reaction was, Wow.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

You know, wow critically you filmed it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

Well, the difference between your wife and my wife. It's fucking amazing. So if I did that, my wife would be like, get the fuck out.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

I'm in this fair room anyway, so there's no way she could, there's no way she'd send me, but I get the same response for sure. Um, I loved her response because it was authentic, it was energized, it was honest. She genuinely, you could tell she really thought.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

I also wanted to, I also wanted to show you of you know the appreciation from from me, you know, as to how excited I was to to get this on the wrist. And so I actually I then went to Japan with this watch and I felt a million dollars. Honestly, I I I literally felt a million dollars and I was wearing it round, and it then got me thinking about Cartier. And um I then went into the Cartier boutiques and I was thinking, actually, what is this brand all about? Yeah. Um and I'm sad to say that there was nothing that's readily available that that that really, you know, that once you've had this on wrist, you can't just go in and buy a tank must. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, or or or a um a Santos automatic because they just don't they don't it really isn't.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

No, no, no. It's it's a real shame actually, because what Cartier watches really are is not what's available for sale in the stores because their stores, you know, obviously sell jewelry and bags and everything. And uh and the watches that they have are just the ones that they churn out. But if they had a store where you could see all of the shapes and the history, you would feel completely different about it.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Yeah, and and these watches are so rare. I felt strangely defensive about it. I was you know, I I remember going into the Kaji um uh boutique in Ginza in Tokyo, and um the gentleman behind the desk was like, Oh, you're wearing a nice tank American, and I was like, This is not an American, this is a hundredth anniversary centre. You know, how dare you! This is such a special watch. And that's outrageous.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

Yeah, yeah. That man needs to be he needs to they need you to run a better job, a different job.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

But I felt so defensive about it just because it was it's such a special watch. Um did you think they clocked it like when you walked into these places in Japan? Did they did they spot it and then treat you? Um when I went to when I went to a few different um secondary uh dealers, I think they they saw it and they're like, oh Sandre, beautiful watch. Um I you know, I'm I'm so new to the Cartier scene that I don't, you know, I don't feel confident enough to um to go out and just you know start telling people about this watch, etc. And talking about confidence. I would say the one thing maybe as a criticism of maybe of myself more than the watch. Probably is that I I don't know whether I'm elegant enough for a watch like this. You know? Yeah, because I spend I spend most of my time um uh you know uh working either I'm either in a suit but not looking as good as you guys in a suit, and or at home with the boys, t-shirt, jeans, etc. And this this watch I feel deserves to be worn with by someone with the sprezzatore, as just as Justin would say.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

Sprezzatora, like the uh Alessandro Oscoris used on. Can I try them for that? Can I try them? I like uh I'm sure everyone's watching has seen like the John Mayer talking watches one and two. But I'm I'm confident as when he's talking about his piece unique 5004 Patek, and he's got it engraved as like Mr. JC Mayer, and he's like, I'm not Mr. JC Mayer, but he likes the idea of being able to put on a watch and pretending he's that person. I think he's talked about like another one who talks about like picking up dog poop in a perpetual candle chronograph. Like, I think that should be like the little bit of power of watch. Like you said, you're like you rocked up Soko just feeling like an absolute badass. Like, I think you should be able to be in like your swimming shorts and a t-shirt and be like, yeah, but my watch is really a black tie watch, but I'm rocking it and it's cool.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Like I can't I can't say enough good things about it, and it's really, really got me down the rabbit hole of um researching cartier. A collected man has a lot of great stuff about the history of Paris, Cartier London. I've been I've been working my way through that kind of thing. Um, and it's amazing how actually little there is out there um about the history, because when you when you're coming from vintage Rolex or Vintage Patek, there's so much information, books and books and websites and forums. But then you go to Cartier and there's a 20-year-old article here, someone who's pieced together a few references and trying to, you know, uh and you don't get that. And actually, I quite like digging in the weeds and trying to understand where it's all coming from.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

So does that make you feel that the future is is is is even brighter? You know, I mean Cartier's having a moment, no doubt, but it really is a sense that maybe there's more to come in that in in you know from the market.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

I mean, I'm I'm uh I'm late to the game here, you know. We're let's not let's not uh kid ourselves. I'm very late to the game. I think there's been I mean, Coti has had a moment now for the last five years or so. Um and I'm I'm definitely coming in at the tail end of that or even at the height of the peak, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:45

So I I don't know that's the question. Is it the peak? Like, could it become a six two like all Newman Day toners where every character on the sun's just gone? We need vintage cartier. What do you think?

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Your your Mr. Cartier.

SPEAKER_03 34:59

I think it deserves that sort of attention, but I also don't want it to have that sort of attention. Obviously, the Sotheby's auction coming up of the 300 pieces, that's going to cause a stir, and I think everyone's gonna be really surprised at what money they fetch, and there'll be a knock-on effect on the rest. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Uh Hong Kong. Is there a lot there that you really like the look of? Is there one God? I mean, yeah. Which would you be which which one to just sniffing around? Is there one reference to you? Or reference rare stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:33

There are probably five that I've just never seen before, which is I I just love that about Cartier, that it's a brand that keeps surprising you because they've done so many interesting things. And I've been into Cartier for well over ten years. And I I just I find that fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

This is what this is what Gora from High End Time also says. He's very into Cartier and he's been dealing Cartier for for quite a while. And he says, every so often something will come up, and I'll be like, I've actually never seen that before. What is you know, or they'll be a they made it one time and it was just the only one ever made, and it's just come to market now, and we'll never see it again. And that's it's incredible to think about that.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

Um It's interesting you referenced them as high orology because I actually don't view them as highrology because you might remember like 15 years ago, there was a uh there was a push into like complicated cartier. There was a lady actually who headed that division up and they built a manufacture around the idea of complicated cartier and then realized no one wanted that. What they wanted was the shapes, and now they are the kings of and queens of the shapes.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

I think through my research and looking up and seeing the THA stuff, and you know, I mean it's undoubted the people who are involved in that are masters of high hierology. You know, we're talking about people like Jaune, Vianney Holter, Reynaudy, you know, the these are the masters of high hierology. And uh would you look at, for example, a Jaune chronometry souvera and say this is country level? Or would you say actually just because Jaun is making it and Jaun is behind this, this is high hierology?

SPEAKER_01 37:08

No, no, you go, you go.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

I just feel like so I I obviously those earlier watches that you know Sean was involved in, they are you can tell they're really impressive compared to sometimes what we see now. But are we also in danger of being like, well, Sean had something to do with this movement, so therefore it must be amazing. Like, what actually was his involvement?

SPEAKER_03 37:28

Did he did he single-handedly like make it all in design or I just thought he was like a part of a committee that was present with Denny Frog and three people, those three people um formed DHA before they had their own brands, and their their focus was on complications, and they came up with a really great mono pusher chronograph that they then were able to sell to to Cartier. It also went to Eulis Lardin, they had that same mono pusher chronograph, and those are quite collectible. I've had one before. The the dials are a bit dodgy, but um, and then they also uh that it's in the it's in the very, very early Devothune watches as as well. Uh but yeah, they've they've made, you know, a few really impressive movements, but it's just that there's some involvement from Jaune. I don't think he owned it. Uh I think there was rumors that the first 50 monousoir chronographs um were the first 50 were hand assembled by Jean or something like that. But I never believe any of those stories. I just think they're a bit someone's someone's got number 50 or whatever, or 45, and they're trying to increase the value.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

So has this led you to consider a cartier now?

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Yeah, yeah, I mean, definitely. I mean, I have been on the lookout now over the last last couple of weeks because I don't I don't know yet if uh if I'm ready for a sandre in the way of it's it's a lot of money. I think we're talking 40, 40 odd thousand pounds. Yeah, something like that. Even more. I think Hairspring hosted a finds the other week where it was 55,000 euros for this exact watch. For this exact watch, you know, and that's not this one, but you know, a uh there's a hundred of those, right? 150. 150. So um it's it's a lot of money. Um, and I'm not sure I'm ready to jump in feet first yet into that. What would the original of that be worth?

SPEAKER_03 39:28

Tim to be sort of something well it's the at the moment I don't know, but we had one very, very early. Um, but it was uh doof and um sword hands, uh, and we sold it for something like 80 grand, something like that. Was this before the Karti wave?

SPEAKER_02 39:46

It was Yeah, because it was now when people were a little bit unsure. I uh I thought that watch had already been released, though, and then you had an original that came after. So this is this is 2021. This is this was released. Yeah, yeah. So really interesting. Can I I'm sorry if you feel like you've covered this, but I I kept telling you about this watch, didn't I? Like before you saw it in person, and I think you kept thinking of like what an American would be like on the wrist. And I kept being like, no, no, no, you need to see it in person, you need to see it in person. Like, how is the case in person? Because probably lots of people listening haven't seen it in person, and they really should.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

So so I would um so there are some watches that look better in photos than they do in person. Um, and I'm sorry to say, but this Baltic is one of them.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

Um I see that was like a kick in the nut. That was a kick in the nut. Tell us about Cartier. Yes, this Baltic's very.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Versus seeing the amazing photography and uh with the Tiger's Idol Wartimer they've just released. Yeah, and I know they're very different price points here, but just an example of a watch that I feel looks way better in photos than it does when I got hands-on. Um, this cartier, and I've been trying to get the right photo. It's so hard to do justice of the of the curvature around the wrist. And the best I can do is is from the the underside when I'm when I'm you know reaching for something or drinking a coffee, and someone takes a photo and you get that curvature around the wrist. That's the best I can do. But in the photos, when I take it head-on like this, it's just looks so flat and big and looks like a bit like an Americano.

SPEAKER_03 41:32

It does, right? Yeah. No, I think I think it um the the best photo of that watch is from someone else's perspective because then you get to see it at a distance and the curvature. And and I think that's almost something I'd say about a lot of cartiers is that um, although they're things that I I love putting on my wrist, they look so much better on other people. I just I just think that I don't know, it says a lot about someone when you see a little yellow-gold cartier dress watch on on strapping chaps, you know.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

I I think you know what I mean. I think there's something quite cool.

SPEAKER_02 42:09

Watches and wonders.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Oh gosh, yeah, right. Yeah, I think so, so um Watches and Wonders, I mean, what a spectacle. Right, what a spectacle. Um, I was there, obviously, as an outsider, someone who has never been to one of these trade shows. I'm gonna call it a trade show. Um and my immediate thoughts So my uh when I walked into the uh first thing I'll say actually is the whole of Geneva just comes alive. Um, I mean, I came and saw you the first night at the AHCI. Incredible room. What what you know, just going downstairs into the room and you've got Savannah Anderson there, you've got Carrie Vutalainen, you've got Ludovic Balward, you've got Raul Paj, you know, you've got uh, you know, Hajime Asaoka's sat right there. You've got real royalty of independent watchmaking all in the same room.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

No one really talks about that little get together. It still is one of those little Blew my mind. I'm so pleased you came because I was messaging saying, here's the location, get down here.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

I didn't know what you were what you were inviting me to, to be completely honest. I just said, Justin's there, why don't we head there? It must be fun. And then I came there and I I kind of was just a bit taken aback. I was I was looking round and I was seeing all these people and their watches just there and being able to just talk to Alex from you know Anderson Geneve, and he, you know, the CEO of Anderson Geneve sat next to Sven Anderson, showing me all of their different world times, their enamel, their John Powers, their Guilloshe, and just talking to them for a good part of half an hour about these watches, the time at Patek, et cetera, is if you've Viani Holter.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

Viani Holter. It's just so interesting to chat with the guy. I'd never met him before, but such a nice guy.

SPEAKER_00 43:45

Yeah. Um so that was that was amazing. So Geneva comes alive. And then the next day I went to the actual show. And my immediate, for people who haven't been there, it's huge. My immediate thought was this is I I can't say anything. Than a spectacle. And seeing, for example, Panorai made more effort with their boo than the watches. You know, it was it was just it was just this amazing underwater tank that they built and world that they put together. And I it was amazing. It really was amazing. But then on my way home, I I understand now what you mean about the immediate visceral response and then needing to marinade a little bit. Because on my way home, I started thinking about it. And I just thought, God, the cost of all this must be huge. Right? I mean, the cost of the whole spectacle of people like George Russell coming in for IWC and Usher and Roger Federer, Pierre Gasly, Usain Bolt, you know, the cost of all these people as well as the thing. And then I'm Google WC. I thought, who the hell is paying for all this? And the answer is us. It's us. It's the viewers. When when JLC are increasing their prices 40% in three years, or RWC's prices, or Panorai's prices are all going up, it's it's to pay for this stuff. And it's not just one show that's happening once a year. You know, you've got Dubai Watch Week, you've got Watches and Wonders, you've got Geneva Watch Days, you've got LVMH watch week, and it's just going it's a it's a roadshow. And so this has got to be baked into the price of the watches. And I thought to myself, would I rather none of this happened and actually my watch was three grand cheaper or a third cheaper than and it was an interesting thought. But the actual spectacle itself.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

Where did you land on it?

SPEAKER_00 45:39

I I couldn't, I keep going back and forth. Well, you don't you don't buy many new watches anyway. So but because of that, because I don't see the the reverso is still the same reverso it was 10 years ago, but it's two and a half times the price.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

The strategy for launching things is interesting because GLC literally the day after the show closed, they launched a whole series with uh Mark Newsom, like a new Atmos Clock and some really cool things. And I was thinking, God, okay, this is interesting. Like they spent all that money, they put all that time into the exhibition. They were one of the stars of the show, no doubt, with the new master control. We agreed, and their pricing, we did say, was, was, was really good uh in relative terms. So I I I think now having that as as a center, and you can see with the you know, we've got AP coming back to the show this year for the first time for many years. So the sense is that actually it's it is a good thing. I'm for I'm of the belief, I'm I'm super biased because I'm bloody there and have been for years, but I love that everyone comes together for that moment. And there is an argument to say that's a good thing. Um, but strategically, I'm not sure it even is used now as the ultimate launch pad for a lot of what's to come. I don't know. I just can't help feel what we're just talking about marketing, though. Like surely everything you buy. But there's commercials going on, so it should be said that behind the scenes, all of the buyers from all of the retailers from global partners is going on behind the scenes. We're looking at the watches, but most of what's going on is deal making, I'd say. Yeah, but I mean if you buy anything that's on any F1 car, that 30 million pounds is factored into what you're buying. Just well, we live it. I think it's better to have the show and know about the stuff. But but hold on, hold on. But this doesn't make your watch any better.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

What what I want to buy from a watch.

SPEAKER_02 47:14

Yeah, but you might you wouldn't know the watch existed.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

I would though, wouldn't it? Well, there was no marketing. It's just marketing. Of course it's marketing, but we're talking about the scale, right? The scale of what's happening and the people, you know. You know, we we can't we can't think that Usher flying in from the States to attend um What's and Wonders for JLC is is cheap, right? That the people attending the the the But I think I think I bet it's a small part of their marketing.

SPEAKER_03 47:40

Yeah, I bet. And I and I'm I'm not sure that your statement around marketing not making products better is correct. I I think you get a lot of feedback from those events and the hit watches uh are noted by brands and they must amend their strategy based on what works and what doesn't work, particularly what doesn't work. So if you're throwing a load of marketing money at at something and and no one gives a damn about it, then they're not gonna do that again. And and so it does have a knock-on effect, and watches must improve.

SPEAKER_02 48:13

If there was one winner and one loser from the show, so then where were you at?

SPEAKER_00 48:18

Could be a brand, it could be a product. Um okay, I'm gonna go for two brands here. Okay, and it's interesting because we've got two brands who are both owned by Richemont um who have both been in the doldrums for a little while and are both coming at things in very different ways. And my winner, I think will be unsurprising for most people, is JLC. I thought they they were amazing. The product, and this, you know, forget the stand, forget all of that. The product itself was absolutely fantastic. When I first saw the master control, uh the new master control line in hand, I I I I thought there must be a catch here. There must be a catch because time and gate. It's eight mil thick, it's 38 millimeters. Brand new bracelet. Brand new bracelet, which is uh exquisitely finished. It's up there, you know, with with the 222 bracelet. It's got chamfers, it's got the the little polished bits, it's got a micro adjustment. I thought there must be something removable though. It's not removable, but neither's a 222. Um, but you know, it it has the same dimensions. It it's as thin, it wears as good on the wrist. It's it's a third of the price. Yeah, it's a third of a price of a of a of a brand new 222 if you can get a 222 at retail. Um, and on top of that, I thought, okay, they must have done what RDBC do and put their cheapest movement in, keep the cost down. But they didn't. They made a brand new movement and they've chronometer certified it, they've Cosk certified it.

SPEAKER_02 49:52

You're now happy with the ambassador costs, okay?

SPEAKER_00 49:55

How they've baked those in. So you're now okay with that. And I hear that that Usher has actually been putting these movements together himself in Le Santier. Um yeah, it's his money. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:06

I made him on in the gym yesterday. Yeah, you've got to be honest in the air, but in the headphones. So so I thought, I gotta bird.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

When you're home, yeah, yeah. So you've got a band though for this new mask. Oh my god, it was so it was just there was no we talked about compromise. Um, or I talked about compromise on a few episodes ago, and it there was no compromise. And then I thought, okay, well, the the perpetual calendar, you know, RWC make one, and that's 14 millimeters thick or 13 and a half millimeters thick, and then blown up to 42 millimeters um for their enjouard perpetual calendar. But no, they presented it to me and it was nine millimeters thick.

SPEAKER_03 50:44

Yeah, and it was 39 millimeters. It looks like the time only.

SPEAKER_00 50:47

It's amazing. It's absolutely amazing. And I thought, okay, this must be 80 grand. It's not, it's it's as cheap as the RDBC one. It's um 40,000, which is a lot of money. But in perpetual calendar land, for a new perpetual calendar on wrist, I thought, I thought that was incredible. What metal is it? Sorry, steel.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

Well, they there's a rose in the street. There's a rose, there's a rose as well. 40 grand.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

40 grand in steel. Um so then on the other hand, we've got IWC.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

Ah, I just you've got a real beer in your bonnet. Anyone who's watched previous episodes will know you've just absolutely loved it.

SPEAKER_03 51:24

Even in your um your blog, my subset. I want to save that rant for the podcast. Give us a look in a room. There we are.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

So um I don't know what is going on with RWBC, right? They're there they're a brand which was which we have all known growing up in the 2000s, 90s, 2000s, pilots, watch brand, aviation, um, engineering, et cetera. Then over the last few years, they come out with uh they're an engineering brand, the engine or we're all about this, we're gender, blah, blah, blah. A year later, they're an F1 brand, right? Racing cars, F1, we're in this movie, we're plastered all over Toto Wolf and George Russell, et cetera. We're coming out with all of the different ceramics and colours. And then this year, suddenly they're a space brand. Space. What what is the message? What are what are you? You're you're you are you and the problem is is that the product is not good enough to have this model messaging. The product is, you know, the chrono, we're talking about JLC making a perpetual calendar here at nine mil. They're they still and are releasing a chronograph that's 14 and a half mil thick. But what about the perpetual, the new perpetual now? But the module on top, but it's still 14 mil thick. It is quite thick. It's thick. It's unwearable. Yes, you're you know. But finally, we've got that, haven't we? That's gotta be celebrated. It can't be, we can't celebrate these things when when your competitors are doing it 30% better. You cannot come to a show with a new perpetual calendar when the people next door are doing it 30% better. And this is what I'm trying to get at them. And they're then coming out as saying, well, look at this watch. It's it's fully loomed from the strap to the buckle. What about the vertical clutch? Because I think you quite like that, didn't you? I think the concept is great, but it it the messaging in the space watch, they RGPC have got nothing to do with space. The eternal calendar. Yeah, but I mean what are we doing? What are they doing? What are they doing? They're just they need to get their they need to get their core product right. They need to get that they are a brand that need to get their chronographs thinner, their perpetual calendars wearable and thinner. They need to really focus on their core product and then and then start sprinkling the the the magic source of of space and cars and F1 and things. But at the moment, it feels like they're a brand run by a team of marketing grads who are just trying to jump on every hype going without I I've I've I don't think I'm about to defend them, but the F1 thing is not new.

SPEAKER_02 54:06

Like they have been with Mercedes and was Lewis Hamilton for years and years. So, like they're not all in my head, they're not all of a sudden an F1 brand. But they're just but they it's still the same product. They've just called it like we've made one for George Russell because he's one of the guys for the product.

SPEAKER_00 54:23

Is that excusable? Is that excusable now to be just, you know, again, marketing rather than focusing on the core product, which needs to be better?

SPEAKER_02 54:33

But I like I don't I I don't I don't think I don't think it takes too much of their attention away. Like they go, right, George Russell was one of our sponsored athletes. Should we just make some hands blue and call it George Russell? Like, I think that's I don't think like the innovation department are like, oh Crab Crumbs, that's another year written off because we had to make the George Russell watch.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

But but but there is no innovation department from what I'm seeing. That you know they they are they are coming out with a halo product of a space watch or an eternal calendar or something. What then sort of the rest of it is just languishing, and this is where they need to be focused on.

SPEAKER_02 55:04

Well, you you said that he's focused on the core, and you said perpetual calendar. For me, the perpetual calendar's not in the core, like it's the big pilot, it's chronographs. I used to love the Portuguese, like that was a gold watch for me before I bought anything else on. I just think like as a dress watch, do you remember some of the Jubilee ones they did in there as well? The the little set. So yeah, like there's this amount of uh I think it's okay to the amount of like older people out there that have their IWC on, that's their granddad or their great granddad because they got their old IWC dress watch on, like leave the perpetual calendars, like make a really good pilot's watch chronograph on a nice dress. Just as we were talking about a mark, a 36mm you know, steel with that sort of beautiful bracelet from the 90s, tritium doll. Like that's maybe the moral of the core. But yeah, that's relevant. Like an RF could be with Salem, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_03 55:52

If if if IWC gave me a voucher to say uh, you know, to pick a free watch, I I wouldn't know which one to choose because I don't like any of them.

SPEAKER_02 56:03

On that note, should we move on to a positive one from you, Jake? Has he given his positive or is he just hello?

SPEAKER_00 56:11

They were brilliant, and at the you know, and their Halo product, which is the enamel reversos, the white gold, the white gold, white gold bracelet as well.

SPEAKER_02 56:20

Absolutely stunning. So, first of all, I'm gonna say I'm gonna be there next year. Um I'm in like I'm I'm I'm sold, it looked fun. Um, so I've I've written a highlight and a low light um from from from afar. I've not picked a watch or a brand, picked a trend, I highlight, which is the downsizing of watches. So Octo, Finissimo 37 mil. I'm so curious to try one of those on. Our friend James has already got one on the wrist. So um, yeah, try and see his or pop into a shop. Annual calendar from Langzona 36 mil. Lovely, lovely the new Nautilus, which by the way, I've just been wearing the 5811 for the last 20 minutes. That sucks. Like, I really would love to see I'd really love to see the the new Nautilus. Uh the ellipse back in uh classic proportions 3738. Stand on there. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's more, but that I don't know, I just felt like we're seeing it. We're seeing brands are going, you know what? Maybe we should make something that's GLC actually.

SPEAKER_03 57:23

Yeah, the 38, 39 mil mask control. Those were yeah, big, yeah, their their sports watches have been critically uh I'm so here for it.

SPEAKER_02 57:34

So um, yeah, just the general theme that felt really good to see. I was just like these new watches popping up left, right, center. And I said I don't really care about going to watches wonders because it's just new, big modern stuff they don't care about. Yeah, all of a sudden I started going, Oh, hold on, like there's this stuff here. Um, low light, which met my expectations, and I've decided to write a quote because I said in the last episode, we will see new dials, new bezels, and maybe a bracelet from Rolex. And it's Salim gave us a lovely five-minute speech about how the mill gouse is gonna come back and it's gonna be amazing, and they're gonna pull all these from design bits from old references. Um, and I think you all said about the Pallallone um in the 1908 case. We've got new nice Jubilee dial, 36 mil from Relics, quite nice, but lovely dial. Obviously, new dial on the Daytona, and it's now like a hundred grand watch, which is still Daytona at retail. It's 60 something potentially. Um yeah, it's just I don't know, it's just what I expect. And then there is a there is an there is a hundred anniversary oyster, which we said like okay, maybe they have done it, but it's it's naff, isn't it? Yeah, it's naff. It's a 41.

SPEAKER_03 58:46

I really don't like it.

SPEAKER_02 58:47

I I'll tell you what, I like the solid gold oyster um petals. Yeah, but 30 30 something gram.

SPEAKER_03 58:55

Yeah, uh really cool. I wouldn't be buying one, but the adventuring um day dates. I don't know if that's off catalog or whatever, but they there's one we were showing 40 mil, but they're all 40 mil, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:06

Yeah, with the diamond indices that's on catalogue. Uh but new dials, but uh thanks for bringing a new dial this year. Uh yeah, I don't know. I I semi-called it, but that's um yeah, it's just it's fine, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 59:19

I'm I'm over it already. Another thing was enamel there and and day tuner.

SPEAKER_02 59:24

Yeah, the day toner is really cool, but it is a steel watch, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 59:29

So there's a platform around the bezel, and there's a platinum ring. Yeah, which to my is doesn't justify the price hike. Above the steel like a steel daytoner is 10 or 12,000 pounds now. And this is like 40 or 50.

SPEAKER_02 59:45

It's 40k. It's more than that. It's 40k. I think it's I think it's 60, 70 odd. I don't think it is. It's it's got about 500 pounds worth of platinum. Yeah, that's what I mean. It's if you went to a shop and bought some platinum for them and made a ring, it costs about 500 quid to put that in your data. I think it's the enameled dial. It's a new way of making it, yeah. But it's not delivered in the same way you would expect it traditionally. That's the other thing, which some ceramic components, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:09

It's the material of the and brilliant, like they're innovating and they're doing things. They're trying to do things more consistently, I think. And it's hard, it's hard, it's hard wearing enamel.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:17

Yeah. So in theory, you could go and play tennis in it and not worry about wearing an ammo.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:20

So Rolex has told us to to check in on the 12th of May, which is in a couple of weeks, and there apparently is going to be a new release there um where there has been some patents flying about. I don't know if you've seen it on the Rolex Instagram. Yep. So they've said so they've said something big is coming on the 12th of May. So that's interesting. Maybe they wanted to just and maybe that's similar to what Tudor are gonna do, because they had a pretty daff year as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:47

Yeah, if I if I if I could, I was gonna jump in and say I'm not normally instantaneously negative, but my my sense on Tudor was just for for 100th anniversary. I just didn't see enough from the brand. You look, I mean, they're different brands, but look at Vashron last year celebrating its big anniversary and the volume of product coming through, which was outrageous. You know, Tudor should be playing in in that realm in their own way, not not doing the same sort of thing, but their own way. The highlight for me was the only watch I left thinking I'm gonna buy. Because this is the metric for me this year. I was speaking to a friend at the show, I was like, what would you actually buy? Like to today, if you had to put your money down, what would you buy? And what and for me, it was very clear there was one watch, and I am slightly biased because I did work with them to do an event and you guys kindly came to it. But the the Oxyfinice is 37 mil, I legitimately, because the price hasn't gone up, it's staying the same as the 40 mil. I just think that now with the screwdown crown, you you enlighten me to that actually to me in the meeting because I didn't realise some of the later my Oxyfinese modes I had didn't have screwdown crowns, but then the later ones did.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:47

So now with that, the buckle's been re-redone, which was a buckle is a game changer because when the bracelets um links are so thin and often made of ceramic or whatever, when you open that watch, it feels like you're gonna like break it and you're like, oh god. But now you've got that little pinchy thing, scrape.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:07

And I struggled with the sizing on them because it always felt very loose or very tight as well. And I think that's improved. There's no microadjust, but it's it's improved with the the ergonomics of that design. So that watch, sample lasted titanium, is like nothing else. I think we all we all love it. I want to I would like to try it on, but still I can I just add one thing to my Rolex sync so I can picture what people might say. Fair play to Rolex for charging loads of money for a still day donor because secondary market's gonna demand it. So if they want to make the money instead, I kind of don't regret them for that. So like why why would you sell it for 15 if it's gonna be 50 grand on the secondary market? You might as well just make a loan margin. So I do get that.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:47

But just to say that this day owner is actually off-catalogue, it's not this is not in the catalogue. They have said specifically this day owner is an off-catalogue piece, such as the Le Monde, or you know, so it it is in the same price range as our off-catalogue Daytoners. Um that was all solid gold with you know, but this this does have Rolex's first enamel dial, which is which is interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:15

Winner and loser for you of the show. Great to have you there, by the way. It's lovely to see you in the mix.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:19

I I really enjoyed it. Um yeah. Neither a winner nor a loser. Um Cartier did a great job. They always do. I think they had a absolutely brilliant year. It felt a little bit like they got a sort of scatter gun out and and just like peppered the whole place with brand new releases of watches that we've only just had re-released, like uh Sontre and a Clash and a Normal and a lot of grieves for people out there actually handling it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:49

I was like, wow, I wonder what people are gonna think. Because that's like a bit of burgundy on the dial. What's that? And now suddenly it's like, oh god.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:56

That watch is great, and to give more people a chance to buy it isn't necessarily a bad thing. Feels like a commercial play though. Uh but the new Cloch is really the nicest one for me was that Tono.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:07

The time only with Roman numerals, so gearshed art, that smaller one. I saw that on Johnny Davis from Esquire wearing it next to me. I was like, Well, that looks amazing. I'm the Tortoon.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:16

That was also George, the cameraman, George is brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:21

And um my my favourite was the the platinum tank normal on um bracelet.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:26

That was done is exceptional. The details are unbelievable. A bit of red on the dial. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:34

Just that watch, do you know?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:35

60, something like that. Yeah. Uh, but really, really cool. So they had a a blinding ear, and obviously they released the mono poussoir um with a red accent, um, which is which is past that 12, that giant 12 on the mono poussoir. I think it works brilliantly in near vintage. And why was it done? I just still can't get mad around it. I just would love it not to have had that, just because I love the case ship so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:01

I like it. Yeah, do you like it?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:02

They did one, they did one a couple of years ago with Altie Fine, yeah. Yeah. Don't know why.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:06

It's it's iconic. It probably is, it probably is.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:09

It just gets me history. It gets me a little bit. But my my real highlight was Parmogani Flurrier. Thank God someone said that. Yeah, we can't not. Um, they absolutely smashed it um with a number of watches, not just the uh chronograph Mysterio Mysterious. Um but that word that watch is worth saying a few things about because it's so subtle, it just looks like a time-only watch. And then with their little pusher on the bottom, you know, the eight o'clock position, it jumps straight to uh uh a chronograph, which you didn't realise was even there, and leaves behind hands that are still telling the right time. And I imagine if you had that running for a while, you'd have a period of time. Time when you've got five hands all doing crazy stuff, right? You know, and it might be a little bit anxiety-inducing, but but it's fucking impressive. And then it's all on a mono pusher. You press it again, it stops, press it again, resets, and it goes away, and you've got a time-only watch again.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:17

In an insanely crowded world of watchmaking and design, I Greedo, the CEO there, has come out with this very singular idea, this vision, almost like Hermes has this vision for movement in their adverts and everything. He said, We need to be hidden, refined, um, almost like whisper, like everything complication-wise, dial-wise, everything needs to be. And he really has moved into that. You know, it's been quite remarkable. They had the sort of minute ratrapante launched at Dubai, which again was a hidden thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:46

Um I I I have been um a bit skeptical about Armadani. Um I had kind of thought, listen, a lot of people are getting them on wrists. We've seen them on a lot of wrists of people that we see on YouTube and and things like that. And I thought, I'm not so sure, but having seen them, uh, I was so impressed with that chronograph Miss Deacle, whatever it's whatever it's called. Um and the pricing's quite reasonable for it, as well as it's 30 35 for a brand new chronograph, which is in such an ingenious way.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:19

It sounds crazy to say that, but it's the GMT Rantropant is high 20s now, and it feels so much more complicated than that. And then and then also uh we need to talk about the dials of the the toric. Well, uh I was about to absolutely take it away, Tim. Uh so the other thing about Palmer Gianni Furious is the dials on the toric. No, it's not just the dials, the whole toric range, but it's particularly the hammered dials. I think they're bloody amazing. That's absolutely amazing. But I like the split seconds uh chronograph. I don't know if you saw the movement on it. The the normal um toric line had these uh amazingly engraved um uh 18 karat golds, I think, um, movements, which were beautiful. But the split second has a completely different uh um movement, and it's uh it's objectively beautiful. I I I just uh it's high.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:22

It's high. It's really high versus versus those at all. I think about 70,000 Swiss francs.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:28

I think it's probably justified given.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:30

It's a gold movement. What's the comp for that? Jaune is the other, I can think of a gold movement.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:34

Exactly. It's a it's a jaune similar, you know. Um so yeah, I I'm I'm just really pleased that they're getting a lot of attention this year. They deserve it. They really deserve it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:47

Putting your nuts on the line and doing something. That's what you want to see, right? That's what you want to see. I don't I just don't want to see this is years and years of technical innovation. I sat down with Guido as soon as I arrived at Geneva and filmed a little film with him about the two things, and the whole team were like, you know, they're a lovely, lovely team. They're sort of all stars from lots of different brands as well, which is interesting. They've come from different brands that they're working with them now. And Sandos family, because they were up for sale a few years ago, and seemingly that's been taken off the market and now they're doubling down.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:13

And that but they're spending money on developing the watches, they're not flying in Usain Bolt or you know, whoever else. And that's really showing. And I think so many people would agree with me that they were the winners this year. And that's not through giving everyone, you know, free champagne and flying people in and giving them hotels.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:36

It was a nice piece of leather good. I did see a zip uh, I didn't want to do that. I didn't get one of those, but I didn't see any of those that I think.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:43

But that's not the reason I'm being kind to them. I promise. There we go. Uh losers. I was gonna say Tudor. I was really disappointed. I think we all hoped for a lot more from them given the anniversary year. But I guess they're just keeping it in their back pocket for later. Um I thought Automar P Gay might actually bring something new, but they didn't. Well they they bought that fucking Virtue phone thing, which was uh which would Sorry, I'm swearing, I don't know why. Um but yeah, I thought that was a slight disappointment.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:17

I quite liked that they didn't come out, come out as with a load of Royal Oaks.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:21

Well no, that was I'm grateful for that.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:24

But they did the delay's watch, that sort of shaped movement thing, although it's up for grabs because there's a bit like the perpetual for in the cubitus, they've added that sort of grille on the back to give it the sense that it's a shaped movement, it's not. So there's been some funny business going on at AP there with that watch, maybe, and and with Patek sort of trying to answer some questions, but not really. With paper Patek, sorry. I mean, there's an argument. Patek sort of missed the mark. I mean, we love the 38mm Nautilus, right? And comparing it to this white gold one, the platinum, really, I I was struck by that watch. No running seconds, super thin. It sunk into my wrist like nothing else. 38mm was just and we've talked about the 38mm Nautilus that was produced for one year, a couple of 5800, right? 5800. Um But that was that was amazing. But did we really see anything like they've gone back to doing you know what some people would say is the best ellipse ever. They just got back to doing that and they're doing a the right size nautile.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:21

So I'll go. Which is good. They're also doing oh sorry, my oh you you finish. I've got I've got one last negative I was gonna go on to.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:28

There's there's just a thing that like I feel like most watch brands, when they want to make a super limited run of something, they finally make it in the proportions and the designs and the colours that you want. Like this, I just feel like constantly, like that watch came out. Obviously, it's hard to buy an Autolis anyway. But then there are limits to 2,000 watches.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:48

Um with Vasheron with their overseas, jumbo, the job. They've suddenly they've suddenly come at us with this super thin 39mm salmon, but it's platinum and limited 250 pieces.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:58

But why don't you do it on the on the overseas? It's gonna come, I think. I don't know anything genuinely, but but I my sense is that model is going to be an absolute smash in the next year.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:07

But they they released an update to overseas last year, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:11

Why didn't they not make it better? It's just still that's just a common trend in this industry, which is like, oh, you know the one we really want? We'd make hundred of them. Well, make 10,000 of them. Like you could take over the market. That kills it, that kills what that's what the market's built on. Is I'm not I'm I'm I mean, look, but I'm not saying that's all are we are we a buyer though? Are we if they were if they were available? Because that that Nautilus is about 85, 90 grand right in platinum. So it's limited, but I would uh do you this maybe too niche, but do you remember the OnlyWatch where Bregay bought out that brown dial chronograph based on the X Hex, whatever it's called? Yeah, like and they bought out like a brown dial, it was really and they were just like, yeah, we're just gonna make one of them. What you just shouldn't that like that is a ceramically they did the black, black, black bay, but only watch in like 2018 or 19, and now we've just got the bracelet for it, so it's like it's taking a few years to get it. Yeah, and maybe it would come out in 10 years' time, but I don't know. I just feel there's a trend where it's like anything actually want. Yeah, no, we're not gonna make that. I was feeling better about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:12

We're gonna presume that we can make it. The negative, the worst watch there, I think, was the cubitus with the slatted monstrosity. I mean, I I i do you know what I I was so shocked that they managed to make such a bad watch even worse.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:40

How? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:46

No, but but but then you've got the same design team that are bringing out uh you know beautiful uh 5610 and you know 3738 in uh with a green dial. People that clearly have taste. And then maybe it is, right? Maybe they just get their grads to do it. What were they thinking there though? Because they've they've I have no idea. They literally just cover that up.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:09

It's a cover-up, isn't it? It's awesome. I can see it, it's an additional piece.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:17

Cause I mean it was it it was received very, very poorly. And I think that the one word that I would use to describe it is lazy. They've just taken a bracelet from a Nautilus, they've just the same dial as anutiless, and they've just squared it off a bit and and released it initially. And I thought, okay, maybe we need to give it a chance when they last year then released the smaller versions, which would be better. It was still I would still prefer a Nautilus, uh, a 3800 or uh, you know, a 5800, but um it was better. And Thierry stood by it and I wondered what his what his game was there, because he stood by it and said, This was my design. And I wondered whether it was, you know, like how a football manager comes out at the end of the game, like Jose Mourinho used to do all the time, and he wouldn't throw his players under the bus. He used to sit at the front and say, No, this was this was this is on me. I, you know, I'm the manager, I'm taking this. Much like in in industry we do as well. Um, you know, it it the blame lies at the top, right? He said he designed it. He did say that. I I wonder, I wonder whether he did really design it or or he was just taking taking the heat from for the design team.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:30

Um I think he's probably trying to do the opposite. I think he thinks it's great. And he was trying to take in his head the credit team. Yeah. Um, but this this there was some rogue images of him launched this week during like during Watch Lawness. There's a couple of him in like different bars with there's one with some guy pulling his shirt open, he's got tattoos all over his chest, and there's there he is, sort of hugging him like sort of, I don't think there was a beer in hand, but it it was a bit weird.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:54

You don't know these days what's AI and what is gonna be like Yeah, I wouldn't do that. Yeah, I wouldn't do any of that. There were there were a few um uh hidden gems as well. I'm gonna I'm gonna just seeing here the zenith uh GFJ. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is honestly not a watch I had on my radar um before Watches and Wonders. I I saw it drop on your site, but the one that they released this year with the bloodstone, kind of this beautiful green dial. Yellow bracelet, yellow gold bracelet. It's so old money. It's pure old money. It's just that the dial. And then it got me looking at this, and actually, this is in lapis is so nice, and they made a tantalum one. And this is this is what I want to see from Zenith, to be honest. Incredible. Really, I want to see from them.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:41

Incredible how different that product is to some of the portfolio, like some of the pilots watches, for example. In hand, they're just chalk and cheese versus you know this and that. I've got to say though, we we do want to sort of we do want to come to this in this conversation, I think. And I'm saying it because we've got two of them on the table, which is quite unusual. We've got these um Slim this week, just basically um when we were preparing for the show, he sort of had an assault. Not unusual for Slim. He he so he he took a shot at me and he said, I don't get the sport. And he came out the blue and he took it. He's so proud of himself. He came out swinging. He said, I just don't understand the sport too. So now Laura Ferry launched the traveler version, which was completely um uh the natural progression because we can we know the traveler from the galley, from the classic galley, and now we see it in the sports model, which has been a smash hit for the brand. I would say that the photos don't do this watch justice, like you said earlier, cut the bolting. Some photos don't like now what this does, because the because the bezel's very different from where's the nautilus gone here? Where's the the white gold?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:38

You can't miss it.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:39

There it is, sorry, there it is. So it okay, so this is a very flat bezel. This does look like it's been stung by a bee a little bit, right? Because the photos don't really do it justice. But the minute you see it, and funny enough, I actually spoke to Laurent the other day, he doesn't speak English, but through a translator, I said to him, How did you come to this sort of very extravagant bezel? Because that really changes the whole look of it. He's like, no, that wasn't originally there. I didn't want he said, I didn't want this ultra-flat style. He said, The minute I gave it this, this, this, this um, you know, this curvature, it immediately found what I was looking for in the design. And and so you do have this curvature which is echoed in their round watches, the gala is the classic case watch as well. So I wanted to get these two side by side because it's very rare that you get these two side by side. And I should say, this is the man who took these gender drawings. He would never say it, but his team was was involved in taking it and making it the the the watch that we know and love in the Nautilus, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:34

So I'll tell you, I'll tell you why. Um I I I didn't, you know, it wasn't quite as aggressive as uh as you're making out, Justin. But uh so when I saw the traveler in in Geneva. Do you not like it? I I just I a watch with so many curves and curvature, and they did such a great job in trying to keep that, you know. He says it's like a stone that's been pebble, uh pebble that's been over time in in the river. And then he puts two square pushes on this.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:59

That was a mistake.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:00

Uh on the side. And I just I just it just didn't quite fit with the aesthetic of sorry, I I don't know the push either.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:07

Everything is round and then the push is square. That doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:09

Even the crown is uh I I really like this onion crown. Um it's it's really, really nice. So just have a wonder, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:16

Just just just to screw down the crown because this is the thing about this watch is that you absolutely have to, it's full titanium. You have to get hands on with it. This is like if you put it on the river for an automatic watch.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:27

It's amazing that it's that's like a pocket watch.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:30

That's like an pocket watch. So so let me let me tell you why I thought it was it it it so it has always left me feeling a bit cold, right? And there was, I think there's three reasons for that. I feel like individually, each of these things I really like. So the the case I think is really, really nice. I don't love the bracelet, to be honest. I think the bracelet to me feels like it belongs on a Grand Seiko. And you know that's harsh. It's to me you're looking at it. So you you've not tried it on, put it on, hold on. Let me finish. Let me finish. Let me finish. So I think the bracelet doesn't, to me, doesn't it when I look at a nautilus like this 3800 and how Why are you comparing it to that one just of interest when we've got this this is much more of a like floor? I know this is this is white gold, but it's the same brake, it's the same bracelet, and this to me just feels the taper on this, that it feels so much more delicate, it feels a lot more refined. No taper. There's no taper. No taper on that. And it it feels a lot more refined on the nautless, and it's the same the same on the same on the Vasheron. Um, so that's one thing, but the you know, the bracelet is it's it's okay, it's not it's not a bad bracelet, you know. I've I like Grand Saco, I really like Grand Saco.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:47

And they're not renowned for their bracelets, though.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:49

Exactly, exactly. And I wanted to, which is why you're wrong. Uh well, I wanted Lauren Ferrier to come at me with something that would rival the Nautilus or the Royal Oak, right? And this is so much more interesting, isn't it? That's so much cooler. Interesting, yeah. It's interesting. Fine. The next thing that I that I didn't love was was the the dial. So the dial to me felt a bit flat. So I I really like the date window. I think the date window, I love the sector, I love the small seconds. It's just the colour of the blue felt slightly flat to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:24

I think your dial looks really good, though. Mine's not so good.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:28

The the the dials we've had lots of conversations about with friends out there who've got them, they're all slightly different. So Jaune makes those dials. Uh, it's the Jaune dial manufacturer, and and they are some of them are very gradient, um, you know, gradiated. I mean, it's the word I'm looking at. Gradiated, it's there's a French word for it. Um, some of them are more flat. Yeah, it's not fumur, but it's similar. This is quite my blue, my blue is quite sort of a a consistent blue. This one is much darker, much darker. Um, and a friend Matt in the UK actually better. So there you go. But but that but that's that's charm, I think. And I love the blue versus the green loom because the green loom. Oh, okay. So you like that? I like that. That's very modern to me. Very modern.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:07

So that was the third thing to me, it was the loom on this and the hands. I love the asagai hands of Lauren Ferrier on his on his other watches. To me, I actually think they're the best hands in the industry. Um the Asagai hands.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:18

African spear hands. He's obsessed with African spears, and they're an African spear compressed down to be very thick.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:23

I wish he'd found a way of doing that in this rather than I love those hands. I love those hands. Um so maybe it's just a matter of, and to me, when he brought them together, I just felt there was a bit of a mismatch between between that, but it it's not, it looks great on your wrists. It does look really nice on your wrists. Could I suggest a game?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:43

We've got five minutes, maybe ten minutes. We're super lucky that we've got 5811 Nautilus, we've got a Vashron 222, we've got a Langer Odysseus, we've got an overseas or Royal Streamliner as well. 3800. Could you could everyone say they're top three in order of like one, two, three of one, two eight? Just in case I don't even know. We've got a Gen 1 overseas. Gen 1 overseas, which is like that is like the integrated bracelet, still sports watches in that we've got all the blue dials, basically. This is outstanding. I mean, are I this mid-size rollout?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:20

What's your one two three? I I would be that Nautilus bracelet is is it's hard to push back on, actually.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:31

That is a massive watch. I I'm not happy on their size now. I I'm not.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:34

Here's the 3800, which is look at the 3800. I mean, imagine that a millimeter bigger. It's just it can't be.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:41

I would say that might take it for me, actually. Yeah, I I would say that takes it for me. I'm followed shortly behind without actually. Just because I thoroughly enjoy working. Where are you, Jake? Where are you? I I've been trying on, I just tried on most of these. The the that Nautilus specifically is massive. It's out. I the overseas is too big. I just I just found the two, two, two weirdly. I don't know why I'm criticizing like all the most famous watches, but it's very just very straight. Like you can't really see the dial in that sense. It's like the bracelet just carries on. But it's it's all kind of in line, isn't it? It kind of feels like a thick bracelet rather than a watch. It's beautifully tapered, not aggressive, it's not too aggressive. I think this is what the most comfy to wear. Um, I I'm torn on the aesthetic, but as a watch, just like I'll talk about the show part we're getting. As a watch just to own, wear and enjoy is up there, then probably the vint, but this the near vintage Royal Oak and Nautilus would be up there as well. But just I don't know, there's something about like on Instagram, the Nautilus probably looks amazing, but I think as a watch to own, wear and enjoy, the Lauren Ferrier has its has its merits. That's why I love the watch because I wear it so much. It's the perfect holiday watch because it's screwed down crown, it's super comfortable on titanium. The diss is actually pretty good, it's amazing. It's just it's a bit big for me, but actually, I quite like it. Anyone who has one of these says they go take it off. Anyone I know who's got one loves them. Um I mean, my memory rap boys that that'll be our final close.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:12

Yeah, I mean my memory is the um the 3800. I just think that the size for me is perfect, the design is iconic, the bracelet's amazing, it's so flat.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:24

QD go to those with the winning to do modern stuff, like the stuff that's still been made. Because what we've all just got is like the best ones, the one-eight years ago.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:33

You know, if you want a neo vintage, the 5800 made in 2005. Stuff that's made right now. Have you ever handled 5610? Um, yeah, the new 5610. There you go. Um, uh so that's my one. That's my one. I think my number two uh would probably also be the Royal Oak. The Royal Oak. Modern Royal 37mm. If I had to go for one, you know, not a vintage one. And then the third would be the 222, because I I agree with Justin, the bracelet is amazing on that route.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:04

It feels I think the Laurel Fairy wears better than the 222. Wearability. I do too. Honestly, the bracelet, it got a little stick, this this look, this water bracelet. It did, because it didn't mat match maybe the the case, the the the the head of the watch, but actually it's bloody comfortable to wear. Honestly, I'm I'm saying this after a few years of owning this now. I wear this on holiday the whole time, and it is incredibly. I think that's never functional. It's functionality, like functionality on Instagram isn't sexy, but in real life has endless merit. Would I prefer to for it to be thinner and more like the Nautilus, like really fine? Yeah, or or much more like that. Yeah, I would actually have preferred it to. Would I have liked a little bit more taper, even though this top link here does give you a little bit of drama, just a tad of drama? Would I have liked it not to have reflection like the reflections are a nightmare to shoot the watch?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:49

So what you're saying to me doesn't like there are things you would refine about that watch. And that's what I'm that's what I'm getting at as well, is is I I just think there's enough there that I would love, I've loved Lauren Ferry because I know he can do it and I see it in his other watches. I would have loved him to refine with the new traveler and with with this. I it's like with Langer with this. I I love I love the Odysseus, I love the design. Um, but this this generation, I'm waiting for them to come out with their refined Odysseus. I think there will be one. Um, I would love them to bring out a refined Odysseus that is just um, you know, that that addresses all of the critiques of this one. And then it would be great. Kind of like they did with the Zeitwork, you know, where they had their first zeitwork that was I know you like it a lot, but there was a lot of critiques and they made it a bit smaller, the movement was a bit better, just thinner.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:42

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:44

I I like may I do my three? Yeah, and then we'll close, I think, because we're getting uh the video of the George.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:52

I just think Nautilus design for me is still king. Uh it's really, really that good. The bracelet is great. The dials are great and I'd still love Patek. Then it's Odysseus and then it's Laurent Ferrier. I think the uh the Odysseus is just there's something about it that I I'll always enjoy. It feels technical, but it's also not one that's very shouty. I never feel like it's gonna get ripped off my wrist.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:21

You made a 38mm Odysseus when it would go number one. We'll see. Yeah. It's all in the execution.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:29

But Laurel Ferrier is the most comfortable of all of them. I mean, that does look great on you, Jay, to be honest. Maybe it's because my wrists are so small and slim. It's comfy. It's just nice. It's just good on you. It looks good on you. Um maybe you should uh you should ask East about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:44

I think Justin will get the new one, is my prediction. I think it's fix for lifestyle. Then we can you know offer him five grand for this. Grey dolls, beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:52

All right.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:53

All right, guys. Listen, that's probably us, isn't it? That's probably us. I think so. Thanks for watching. Thanks for joining us as always. Thank you.