Manhood Series Episode 5: Courage & Perseverance

Many men avoid hard things. But what’s actually at stake when they do?

In this episode of Three in the Fire, we break down courage and perseverance—not as ideas, but as choices every man has to make.

Courage isn’t just facing danger. It’s obeying God when it doesn’t make sense.

We talk about:

• Why men run from difficulty and choose comfort
• What happens to a man when he avoids hard things
• The connection between courage, faith, and obedience
• How perseverance builds character and hope
• Why God doesn’t remove trials—but uses them to refine us

This conversation gets real—covering personal stories, biblical truth, and what it actually looks like to lead your family well when life gets hard.

If you’ve been tempted to take the easy way out... this one will challenge you.

#courage #perseverance #biblicalmanhood #christianmen #faithinjesus #spiritualgrowth #ThreeInTheFire

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Embracing hard things, facing challenges, suffering under trial, and staying the course. What benefit is it to do this? Courage, perseverance. These are qualities that are praised in scripture. Sometimes we run from them as men, though. Let's talk about it. This is three in the fire. My good friends, Josh Davis, Max Mowarder. Welcome, guys. Hey, good morning, Duncan. Good morning, Max. All right, guys. So we've been in the middle of this series on manhood. Uh, and we've covered quite a bit of ground so far. So I thought when we started things here, it'd be good to just kind of give a just a quick kind of bullet point recap for everybody, kind of reset that, and then we'll jump right into our target. So our first episode, I covered that that New Testament Greek word arete, which is translated, bestly translated, probably manly excellence, but we can translate it as character and virtue, but that was the role focus. The the inward man in the New Testament is where Jesus is really drilling down the apostle Paul and of course Peter in 2 Peter chapter 1, there, and adding that character to your life as a man. Then we moved over to the Old Testament. We talked about this Hebrew word chazak, and uh that's an action word. It basically means courageous obedience. You don't run, you don't surrender, um, and things like that. And then we moved into your episode, and you talked a little bit about identity, uh, which obviously now we're just like I feel like we started kind of out here, and now we're just moving down into the core of things. You want to give us just a quick nutshell again of really what that was about?

SPEAKER_04 2:20

Yeah, um, you know, identity is so foundational to everything because identity really is your identity in Christ. So it starts with salvation. You can't fully embrace uh who you are, who God's created you to be, if there is no salvation, if there is no recognition and acceptance of your identity as a son of God. And so, so when you have assurance in your identity, you know who you are, um, then you can step into that identity fully and start embracing the things that God's calling you to and that he's deposited in you and that he wants to refine and call out of you. Um so identity is so foundational, and without it, um then we're just left to all of the definitions that the world puts out there, which just change with the wind, you know, and the result is just confusion about who we are and and what our purpose is. So um identity is just foundational to everything that we've been talking about and that we're gonna continue to talk about.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

And Max, you you covered basically three things. You had gifts, you had callings in there. We talked a little bit about roles too and kind of how these things overlap.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Give us a quick recap here for our audience. Yeah, how it fits into with what Josh taught is a lot of times men uh they take on the identity of what they do, their their work, and because that's something they spend so much time in. And we're clearly taught throughout the word that we have, we've been given gifts and talents, and those gifts and talents are intended for not only our use in the kingdom, because that's what they're given for, but we can also use those in our uh everyday life. And it it really burns a man out if he's not working in the areas that where he's gifted and talented. He's just working for money, he's gonna come to the end of that road, and it's not gonna be pretty. So, importance of understanding who it is that you are, a great piece that Josh did, and then understanding how to take who it is that you are and live with that. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Good recap, guys. So as we come to our topic today, Josh, we're we're coming back to you. You're gonna take the helm here in just a second. Going to be talking about embracing the hard things. And and we know about your a little bit about your story from a very intro episode, our pilot episode. I know that'll come in a little bit more later on today. But tell us, tell us where we're going here.

SPEAKER_04 4:45

Yeah, I mean, we want to talk about courage and perseverance, and and those are two choices that we must make as men if if we really are going to step into the things that God's created us for and that he's calling us to do. And when we look at um what you taught before, Duncan, about uh like arete specifically, um that that is a quality that has to be developed with inside of a man. And the only way to develop that is to take courage and to persevere. Um, you can't develop that arete without courage and perseverance. Um, and we're gonna look at some scriptures and some things um that that show us the benefits of courage and perseverance. Um, and we're gonna look at those in in just a minute. Um, but too often I I see, and you guys see it in this world, is that men they run away from hard things, they avoid hard things. Yeah, um, they seek safety and comfort above all else. Um, but that's not what God is calling us to do. Um, and we're not created to avoid the hard things. And so I wanna I want to start um with with a quit with this question up front. Um and um and that is what's at stake when a man runs away from hard things?

SPEAKER_02 6:11

Well there's there's one we can chase for a whole episode that's yeah. What's at stake when a man doesn't choose courage? Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

I I I got a I was just thinking about this um actually uh as we were preparing for this, is that um I I don't know that it I don't know that not doing not doing the hard things, I I don't think that that removes a guy can still be very masculine, in other words, his things, the things that he likes to be involved in can be masculine. But I really do think uh that it affects his manhood, the manhood that that Duncan was talking about, the arete, right? Because it conditions us um to not expect the to to face hardship. It conditions us to go, it's gonna be 72 degrees, and I'm gonna have a cushy seat to sit on. And so I could endure anything as long as it's the temperature is controlled, right? So I really think it temper or it it changes the it it dulls the edge of our manhood. That's what I would assume. That's what I think it is.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Well, yeah, and if if we do, if we start back from that place of arete and kazak, like like uh you you talked about, Josh, you know, arete is that character part. So we gotta we do have to persevere in order to build that character. And you know, the Kazakh part of it, you know, that was about that courageous obedience. So it's about putting feet to that thing. And so definitionally, you know, if if we take out courage and perseverance as men, I mean, really it's it's pulling the heart out of a man, really to me, because I think I can think back to times, and I'm sure we all can here, and and listeners can too, of moments where we did not make that choice, where we did take the path of the cow or choose the easy way, um, you know, past the buck or something like that. And our conscience was kicking us in the next minute. And even years back, you can look back and just go, I wish I had stayed the course. Yeah. You know, I so I I think there's something that happens to the soul of a man, like Max is alluding to, and and def and definitively it certainly doesn't identify with the manhood of scripture and especially the manhood that Jesus modeled for us.

SPEAKER_04 8:34

Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 8:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:35

And I just think about, you know, for me, um, you know, as a man, if you're if you're married, if you have children, if you have people that um that you that that look up to you, that you protect, that you um, that you, you know what's at stake if if you choose to run away from the hard or run away from the challenges, the hard things, the trials, if you, if you don't choose courage, perseverance, um, is that you know, you you can leave the people beh that are following behind you exposed.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

Amen.

SPEAKER_04 9:14

And you know, I just see so much of that in this world today where men um are are choosing the other path and it's affecting their families in a negative way. Um and ultimately I think that that is what's really at stake because those are the things that are eternal. You know, is is our is as men, the the the child are our children, our wives, our our families, the people that are looking up to us. Um and and if we run away, then who's left to to protect them?

SPEAKER_02 9:54

Yeah. Going back to connecting this even really with Orete, you know, when Paul said in Philippians 4.8, whatsoever things are true and honest and just and pure and lovely, you know, he finishes that exhortation there with, and the things that you have heard and seen from me, practice these things. Well, he says, Okay, I you're gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna set a model for you also. I'm gonna blaze the trail also. And so do what I do, mimic, mimic me, which is also another New Testament word. Um, and so yeah, we miss that opportunity to set that example. The the man is supposed to set the pace, he's supposed to set the bar for the house. Um, and and when we walk into situations that are in chaos in the world, when we walk into a workplace that's, you know, that's something's off and so forth, God wants us to be those thermostats, but it does take courage and perseverance. And so a lot of times we do. We have to endure the fire and and really make those tough choices while everybody else may be, maybe bailing out, maybe abandoning shit and so forth. Well, uh no, this is this is what I'm gonna do here. I'm gonna do right right here in in this verse, right in here in in scripture, what it says. I'm gonna stay up, stand on that ground, and I'm gonna trust the ground's not coming out from under me. That I'm on a rocky foundation because God said that he'll back that play.

SPEAKER_04 11:23

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I think it's a good it's a good thing to to look at what God defines as courage. Like we've looked at in previous episodes, it God's definition of things tends to be much different than what the world defines. And um, and I think the same is true with courage. Um and and the part uh the the passage in scripture that I that I like um most um as it relates to to courage is is in Joshua when God is charging Joshua um is as he is um as he's taking over from Moses and he's calling God's calling him into really what his purpose and and destiny is. Yeah um and and God repeatedly tells Joshua to only be strong and very courageous. Umly be strong and very courageous and don't turn from it to the right or to the left.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:24

Um and and the the reason that Joshua needed courage is because God was was calling him to do something that did not make sense.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:36

Um as a military leader, he was he was giving him orders um that did not make sense. Those were not traditional military tactics of the day. March around the city seven days, shouting and blowing trumpets, you know what I mean? And so like we're gonna do what? Exactly. Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

That's the strategy for taking the promised land. I've been going through this for 40 years because of what?

SPEAKER_03 13:04

Right. Yeah. And then so he's like, okay, now go tell your soldiers this is the plan. You know.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Okay. Because you told me too, Lieutenant Diane.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

And so it it wasn't that Joshua needed courage for the battle because he had been in battles.

SPEAKER_04 13:27

These guys had seen that been in battles. It wasn't courage for the battle, it was courage to obey God's word.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

Oh, yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_04 13:35

It was courage to obey something that he didn't understand, that didn't make sense, but this was the order from God. And and that is what courage looks like. Courage, courage is obeying God's word when it doesn't make sense. It's obeying what he's calling us into when it did when it makes zero sense to us logically. Um because if we if we only obey what we understand, then God just begins to look a lot like us.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:07

And and he's he becomes our size, um, our logic, our limits. And so we need courage in our life because there's gonna be times um when when God calls us into something that is gonna is just not gonna make sense.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

I want to add something here if I can. Yeah. You know, it is just like God to do this, though, right? To to invite Joshua into something who that he obviously was afraid of doing. He obviously had was concerned that he was gonna be able to even pull it off, but God introduces him into this courage development plan that is on the job, right? And so many times we we want, okay, is there a course that I can take? Is there a course that I can take online to get courage? And the answer is no. The answer, and that is one of the problems I think that we face inside of manhood today is where is the where's the course that I can take so I can learn the right things to know about courage? But God wasn't calling Joshua into knowing about courage. He was he was inviting him to become courageous. And that difference always is on the job, and and you learn as you go, but that that leap of faith that it had to require had to be unnerving, right? And I and I think from a loving father standpoint, that from that passage in in Joshua 1 where he's saying, Don't be afraid, do not be dismayed, right? He's telling him, this is going to be tough, yes, but I've chosen you because I know that you have the capacity to do this. And none of us would choose God's plan if he laid it out for us and said, okay, look, a month down the road, and and what you guys were just talking about, as far as here's how we're taking Jericho. No, I'm not doing that. It looks goofy. But he still calls us into that because that's the plan. That's how he's gonna do it. And we can't duplicate, we can't create courage without him. Yeah. And I um what a great example Josh is, uh Joshua and Josh is of that concept of of being courageous and not just knowing about courage.

SPEAKER_04 16:33

Yeah, and and you said, you know, if if we knew if if we knew God's plan beforehand, we probably wouldn't choose his plan, right? And um, you know, for for me, um that what you just said hits home because if if God had told me what my life right now was gonna look like, you know, I like to think, oh, I'm I'm courageous, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna do what God's called me to do, you know. Um, but really would I would I have chosen that if I knew all the details? And I don't know, because man, it's hard. It just, you know, some of the some of the listeners um uh may know may know my story or some of my some parts of my story and and others won't, but you know, we have uh we have four children, uh two are our own biological children, one year old, three and a half years old, and then we have two older uh children that we've adopted, uh boy and girl, 14 and 13. And both of their parents have have died. Uh they died in in set in separate different ways, um, but they were friends of ours. And um and I had made we, well, Jamie and I both, my we had made a commitment uh that if if something were to happen to uh to them that we we would adopt and raise their children. And and I think you know a lot of people do that, right? Um, you know, and they made I made this agreement. I hope I don't have to honor it. Exactly, right? And and most of the time it never it never happens. But for us it did happen, and and they both passed away. And and we had to choose to um to honor our commitment and choose courage because this did not make sense. God, how how did this how could this happen? Yeah um and um and and so we're in the middle of, and I'm in the middle of choosing courage and perseverance every day as we navigate um so many challenges. Um you can just anything you can imagine when you're dealing with children of that age, such a pivotal time in their life, and it's been almost two years. Um, and um so much trauma, so many, so many issues, legal issues, all of these things you can possibly think of. God's God's prepared us for this time. He knew it was gonna happen, and and he put all the pieces in place.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:16

And he's and he's asking me, Josh, Joshua, have courage, be courageous, and persevere. Um because God he knows the end from the beginning, he knows what's happening. Um, and and so uh, you know, we're in the season where it's just it's just every day I have to choose courage and and trust God um that he's refining things in me and in everybody involved, but that he's refining things specifically in me. Um like we talk about Arete, character, um, and and maturity and ultimately hope.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

And so um something, if I can kind of jump in there for a second, Josh. Um something that that is really seeping into the conversation here, really for us to me, is how faith and courage, faith is is really like the the shadow of courage. Or you could say, you know, courage is the shadow of faith, but they definitely go hand in hand because you're not going to take those courageous steps without trusting God. And and and as we've already kind of laid out, trusting God can be a tall order. It can it can it generally courage in scripture, wherever it shows up, it shows up in a situation that seems impossible. Right. And and it is because it's impossible without God, and that's the whole point. Right. He he gets glory when he brings us into these situations so that we do have to put all of our trust, all of our focus, everything on him. And and then as he brings us through, of course, he gets the glory, and the and the world gets to see that. They get to see it play out through us, through our lives, how it affects our families and all of that. Then he gets great glory, and the witness of Christ, you know, gets great credibility in people's eyes. There's so much in the way, um, I think, of either crediting or or discrediting the name of Jesus these days, right here in this. You know, Joshua had this had this magnitude of an order from God. They're going into, you know, hostile enemy territory, fortified cities filled with giants. I mean, three things that, yeah, I'm not real keen on jumping up and doing that, you know.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Um, I'm yeah, I'm probably could I catch like the third or fourth train so I see here a little bit how it's going or whatever. So there's so there's that already. And then you know he turns around and he kind of looks at the people that are behind him, and it's like, what have you guys been doing? Um making bricks for a really long time, building pyramids and things and stuff. Really, uh what kind of weapons storage we got? Well, um, we need to talk about that also. Got a lot of staffs. Um, we had a lot of sticks, I've been out in the desert for a good while. Um, we did manage to bump and take some spears off the Amalekites when we faced them. Um, I think we got a few swords. You got a knife, right? You got a pocket knife? Yeah. Um so it the most of the time, my point is this my most of the time when we are called to these situations, and it is, we are called to them. When God calls us into these situations, the situation seems impossible, and it doesn't seem like we have a lot. Right. But God's witness to us is this is no, you have me. And that's what he said to Moses to get the whole thing going to begin with at the burning bush. He looked at him and he's Moses said, Who am I that I should speak to Pharaoh? And God said, This, I will be with you. He didn't say, Oh, Moses, you're a great guy. Moses, come on, you're a good speaker. Believe in yourself. Come on. And you've had all this training in Egypt. You went to Egyptian university. You know, he just looked at him and said, No, no, I'll be with you. And that really is the question. And so I want to kind of flip script for a second if I can, and I want to I want to bring it back to you. When when you found out that news, you know, obviously there's this, okay, here's here's the moment. Mentally, I I I can't imagine what you and Jamie were kind of going through and talking about and processing here and all of that. But obviously the talk about trusting him came up. What can you share a a a little bit of what that was kind of like?

SPEAKER_04 23:58

Yeah, I mean, wow, it just uh immediately flipped a switch in me. Uh because it's like, okay, this is uh this is the situation. This is uh you know, you just you you have to move you have to uh you have to move into that into that place and into that position and start uh and start uh handling and doing things. When when we made that commitment about three years prior, three years before uh Troy had died, you know, we we had known the kids um since since they were really young, but at that point we we knew that okay, if we're gonna make this commitment, then we need to step it up and and be more like uh aunt and uncle. And so we were attending all of their school functions and the parties and all the different things. And the kids knew um, you know, they they knew that if something were to ever happen to their dad that they would be with us. And so uh that that allowed for the transition to be uh, I guess, as smooth as it possibly could be. It's not it's never going to be smooth, but at least they knew they weren't coming into a strange home, a strange environment, strange people. Um and um, yeah, I mean, we really had to trust God with every step because we had no idea what was going to happen from moment to moment, day to day. And so we really had to change our our vision and our thinking um to, you know, this is what we're dealing with at this moment, and not even think beyond that moment. It was just moment by moment and trusting that God would would help us uh connect with with the right people, the right um, you know, just everybody that can help us with every every step along the way. Um and and it's just been can continuing to trust God throughout this process because it's a it's still a process that's ongoing, that there's things that are not resolved. And so we still have to trust God that He's going to provide.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

You know, so Josh, connecting, connecting your experience there, what I just heard you leading into was you really did have to take it moment by moment. And I think that's that right there is is is kind of thinking about it from an incremental standpoint or a step-by-step standpoint. That is a key to walking out our courage and perseverance as men, because we can really get overwhelmed fast if we try to see the whole picture and try to think about what to do next, what to do next, what to do next, what to do next. And God doesn't set those kinds of expectations on our shoulders. Jesus, you know, says right there in the book of Matthew, about chapter six and the beatitudes, he says, guys, he said, hey, don't worry about tomorrow. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof. So, you know, don't think about what you're gonna wear and don't think about this. And and so that's that's what I really keyed on to the first thing. And that makes sense too, because the plan that God gave Joshua was, let's just focus on the battle of Jericho right now. You know, I'm not even gonna talk about AI, I'm not even gonna talk about these other places where you have to go. So I I think that's such a powerful principle for for for you guys, and and and what he began to bring out about your situation of step back, take a deep breath, and just focus on right now what I'm telling you to do right now to be courageous.

SPEAKER_04 27:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

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SPEAKER_01 30:13

Yeah, for sure. Have you ever thought about what what would have happened? What would have happened if you decided not to move forward? What would have happened if you decided, I don't think I can be that courageous. Have you given that any thought? I mean, I don't know that it would change anything, but uh often in retrospect, you look back and you go, there really wasn't a choice. You you had to become courageous.

SPEAKER_04 30:38

Um have you given that any consideration for well I I do I I I do believe that if we didn't, then the kids would be in a much worse uh situation than they are now. Um and uh and I really do believe that that there is some amount of um proportion or um you know that basically the the the harder something is, the more challenging something is, the more opposition you have from the enemy, uh the greater the eternal uh consequence is. And know that if if as hard as things are, that must mean that there's something really great at the end of it. Um there's there's uh there's some eternal consequence that that really, really matters. Um otherwise um it it that wouldn't that wouldn't require courage and perseverance. Um and uh so I I you know I believe that and and I just you know like if you look in Joshua um you know after God in that conversation God's having with Joshua about being strong and courageous, I think he does give us um an idea of how we get courage, that's when he says that you need to meditate on my word day and night. Yeah, Joshua. And so so I think about that, you know, just um that when we know God's word, when we know his promises, when we have them in our heart and our mind, that when things are hard, that we can go to those scriptures, we could go to God's word um and we can get courage from his word. Um and just bringing things back around, you know, I I think about uh like Romans, Romans 5, uh, three and four. Uh it says we also glory in our sufferings because we know that suffering produces perseverance, right? Perseverance and character, rete, and character, hope. And so, you know, I know that that as we as I persevere and as just in men in general, we persevere through things that that's working out things uh um in us and refining things in us. Um and and God uses those uh those challenges, those trials to bring things out of us because uh when when God you know Jesus said in this world you will have trouble, so be courageous. And uh and so we are gonna face hard things. There are gonna be hard things, there are gonna be trials. Um but God God doesn't always remove those hard things. He doesn't remove us as much as sometimes we want to pray and ask God to take me out of this situation, let this cup pass from me. It's it's not always it's he's not always gonna do that because he's doing a work inside of us. Um and when we persevere through something, we're not we're not revealing anything to God that he doesn't already know about us. And so the perseverance is for our benefit because it shows us, when we persevere through it, it shows us what God put inside of us, what he's known all along. Um and and I like to think of it in terms of uh like a quarterback, you know, the greatest quarterbacks of all time. Um, if they were never put in a position, fourth quarter, Super Bowl, down by six points, you know, they've got to march down the field 98 yards to score the game-winning touchdown and win the Super Bowl. Um those are moments of perseverance, are what bring out greatness. They they those moments are what show the preparation, the hard work, um, what you've put in. And so if you if you never embrace those those hard moments, then you're never gonna know what God put inside of you, what he's placed inside of you, what he wants to call out of you.

SPEAKER_02 35:04

And so um Josh, can I point something out? You know, uh here is you mentioned Joshua 1.8 and and drawing courage from God's word. You know, obviously we uh we have this thing we call our devotional life, our walk with God, where where God wants us in the scripture daily. He makes it really clear right there in that verse. This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it. Then you'll make your way prosperous, then you'll deal wisely, then you'll have good success. And so he he gives us that key right there. And he says, Listen, you're gonna have voices around you that are telling you take the easy way out. And those voices, they're a dime, a dozen, they're everywhere, they're on the airwaves all around us every way, choosing lust, choosing fear, choosing unbelief, choosing pride, all of these things that are speaking to us, and they can get very, very loud. And so that washing of the water of the word, like Paul talks about in Ephesians 5, there, washing over our mind and renewing our thinking, our stinking thinking to get on his wavelength and and and in really the mind of Christ, that happens within that process as we spend time with him. And clearly, you said, you know, God, God already knows what he placed inside of you. Well, he'd been placing stuff inside of you for a long time, laying it up line by line, precept upon precept. Here a little, there, a little, as Isaiah says, over a long period of time, like he's building a wall, slapping mortar and brick and all of that, so that when that moment came, you did have the character that you needed, that you did have the courage and perseverance in order to make that choice and go forward.

SPEAKER_04 36:56

Right. Yeah, for sure. You know, because it's not you're gonna have a lot of little trials as well that you need to persevere through. And those are the building blocks to the big thing. And I know you I've heard you speak on something like that before, Duncan, and just you never know when when that huge thing, when God's gonna call you into that huge thing, and then that is when all the other moments are gonna make sense.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Yeah, exactly. Well, this has been Three in the Fire here, everybody. Hope you enjoyed this talk on courage and perseverance. Stick around because we got another wing-dinger for you coming up next with my friend, my friend Max. You don't want to miss out uh what he's gonna add to our manhood conversation. Be sure and check us out also. Um, you can check us out at Sentinel Ministries.com, sentinelministries.com, that's our website. And be sure to like and share and subscribe if this podcast is blessing you. Thanks for being here. We'll talk to you guys soon. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Time out there. Hey, before you go, if this blessed you, if this has spoken to you, please give us a like below. Click that little thumbs up right there, share and subscribe. We need you guys to help us get the word out about what's going on here at Three in the Fire.