Who Are You When Nobody's Watching? Integrity Part 1

What is integrity?

Most men would say they have it. But integrity isn’t proven when life is easy. It’s revealed when you’re under pressure.

In this episode of Three in the Fire, Duncan, Josh, and Max tackle one of the most important qualities in a man’s life. They explore the biblical meaning of integrity, why it’s more than honesty, how small daily choices shape our character, and why God cares more about the condition of our hearts than our public image.

The guys discuss:

• Why integrity means wholeness, not perfection
• How pressure reveals what’s really inside us
• The connection between honesty and character
• The hidden compromises that slowly erode integrity
• What Scripture teaches about becoming a man of integrity
• Why your integrity impacts your children and future generations

A righteous man who walks in his integrity—blessed are his children after him. (Proverbs 20:7)

If you’re serious about becoming the man God created you to be, this conversation is for you.

#threeinthefire  #integrity  #biblicalmanhood  #christianmen  #mensministry  #character  #faithinjesus  #leadership  #christianpodcast  #proverbswisdom

Transcript

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David was known for it. Solomon taught about it. Job fought for it. In Scripture, it's the heart of every battle. It's a shield for the upright. And it's the legacy that a man leaves behind. The American Heritage Dictionary describes it as strict adherence to a moral or ethical code. The state of being unimpaired. Soundness. The quality of being complete. What is it? Integrity. And it's the topic of today's show. I'm Duncan Brann. Welcome to Three in the Fire. Please take just a moment, like, share, and subscribe and help us get the word out about what's going on. Got a great show lined up for you. Let's get right to it, though. He's here with me today and he will keep Abe honest. I'm telling you, he'll give him a run for his money. Our producer, Josh Davis. Hey, Duncan. Welcome, brother. Yeah, and this guy over here, if he's lying, he's dying. And he's going to captain this ship today. So I'm going to turn over the helm to him here in just a minute. Mr. Sula, I mean Max. Max Verder. Thank you. Thank you very much. As Duncan introduced, we're going to talk today about integrity. And integrity is one of those things that we think we have. Matter of fact, we think we probably have more than we do. And uh the thought came to my mind, it's almost like a uh Dunning Kruger situation where we think we have information or a capability, and then when it's put under pressure, then it fades. The other thing that came to my mind was trying to do pull-ups. And you you you think about in the past, right? I might have been able to do as many as 10 pull-ups. Today, I promise you, if you challenge me to do 10 pull-ups, I probably couldn't do it. And that is the same thing that I think happens with integrity, is that we think we have it, and then a situation comes up, and then it tests us, right? And this integrity can be big things, but it's often, as we're going to discuss today, it's often in the little things. Yeah. And that's even God, God even looks at the little tiny things, the small things. So that the question that I have for you, Josh, can you think can you think of a time where you thought the person was going to was going to interact with you with integrity and didn't? Yeah. Um certainly, you know, there's there's like like you alluded to in the opening when we're talking about integrity, um, it's it's uh small decisions one way or the other. You're either making you're either making uh small decisions daily that are obedient to the word of God that are are um developing you as a person, your character, um, closer to the likeness of Jesus, or it's the other direction. So it's not necessarily these huge um decisions, you know, you wake up one morning and decide to wreck your life. It's it's these small decisions one way or the other, your your uh integrity or your lack thereof, one way or the other. And so in in just thinking about uh that question in particular, um, you know, for uh for a Christian man, you know, there's there's easy, um there's I shouldn't say easy, there's compromises that we make that we don't necessarily think too much about. Yeah. Um that uh, you know, it's not a big deal, um, it doesn't hurt anybody, things like that. And so an an easy example and illustration that comes to mind for me is uh, you know, we we live in a time today where we tend we work from home to some extent. Almost everybody does, either full-time, part-time, whatever, one day a week, um, we'll work from home. Um our boss can't see what we're doing at home. Right. Right. He looks, maybe we check in, we have a system where we check in, we log time and stuff like that. Um, but does he really know if we are on the clock doing work or if we are playing a video game or something like that? Yeah, or if you're sitting in your truck, you know, just just clocking and sipping coffee or something versus working on the power lines or whatever. And we can we can easily justify that, you know. Oh, I'm still being productive and other time or whatever. Um, but the reality is um that's what integrity is, is is it is being consistent um in private as what you put out in the public. Yeah. It's a consistent life. And so that that's a small compromise. We can justify that compromise and maybe not even feel like we're doing anything wrong. But the reality is in that situation, you're you're lying about what you're doing and you're stealing time from your employer. Yeah. Um, so that's just a small example, but that's really what what this looks like. We we think it's a big, you know, these big things. We made a big mistake or we made a a big, you know, we did something great and grand. It's actually the small things, yeah, the daily choices that we make. That is right. So Duncan, what about the flip side of that? What about you were in a situation where you're thinking, uh, this is probably going to be a shady deal. And instead they they interacted with you with integrity. Um the thing, the thing that comes to mind for me, you know, I've I've got the stuff I do for ministry, but then I've I've had the stuff I've done for for acting industry voiceover and all of that. And I go back to uh it was a really uh interesting experience. I when I went in to audition years ago for the agency that I was gonna work with, yeah, I had had prior voiceover gigs and all this kind of stuff and some really big stuff that got it opened the door for, but I felt like he had green lighted uh the opportunity to go in now, seek an agent, and all that kind of stuff. And so I went in expecting that it was going to be this kind of CD experience. I came from a theater background before I got saved, you know, and I'd seen some really wonderful stuff, all quotes there. But as I went into it, you know, I was expecting, like, okay, you know, I'm gonna be probably asked to compromise Christian values in some way. And so I better be ready to face the Piper and you know hit the door if I have to. And so I went in with that, bearing that cross, just going, okay, if that's the cost of it, then I'm not going. Uh, and I went, I had the audition, and when I had the reading, um, the uh agent that I was I was looking at and who was interviewing me, there were two other guys there that she wanted to read. And so she had all three of us do this scene. She hands us the sides, as we call it, the scripts, and we read through it real quick. And I noticed immediately that there was some profanity that my character is supposed to use. And I was just like, okay, so here we go. Here's the test right there. Thank you, Jesus, for preparing me. And instead of just setting the script down or whatever, mentally I just went, okay, well, I'll just swap this word out. And so when it came to that part of the script, I just swapped it out. And instead of saying this profanity, I used some kind of other darn it or dang it or whatever. I don't know what it was. You know, 20 something years ago. But anyway, finished it. And immediately after the scene, the agent stopped. She said, Okay, stop just a second. She she and she looked right at me and she said, I noticed that you did something there. And you changed a word. And I mean, she she had this tone in her voice, like, I was about to get balled out. And I literally saw the other two guys kind of go, We're not with him, you know. And and and she and she goes, I said, Yes, ma'am. And I just looked right at her, yes, ma'am. And she said, Why did you do that? Just like that, just let it sit. And I said, I'm a Christian. Out batting an eye. I said, I'm a Christian, ma'am. And I made up my mind before I came here. If I was gonna have to compromise Christian values in order to get a job, that I was gonna walk out the door, that it's not worth it. And she stopped and she just went and she smiled and started grinning ear to ear, and she said, I think that's wonderful. I had no idea that she was a believer. Yeah, Nancy Johnson, she went on to become my agent. We did a ton of stuff together. Wow. And but she said, I've never and she grabbed me afterwards, she said, I've never had anybody do that. Good for you. Wow. I was just like, and yeah, and I just felt like that was God going, good job. Great example, too. Yeah. You know, what I think one of the reasons why men sometimes that we struggle with integrity is that we often confuse it with character because they are very close. But character are the traits that we possess. Your your decision on the inside to I I'm not gonna use a swear word, right? I'm gonna be pure, but that's different than if you you've decided that you don't want to do it, that the actual not doing it, right? Is where integrity is displayed. So character is is basically who you are, the traits that you have, but integrity is how they're displayed. Like yeah, like the showing of it. Okay, gotcha. Exactly. It's good. So in what you were saying earlier, Josh, is spot on in that it it doesn't have to be a huge thing, it can be a tiny little thing. Right. Uh, you're at work and you see something lying, uh a tool or whatever, and you think um nobody's nobody's gonna miss that, and you take it. Um, you tell a white lie, you know, it's still a lie. You you decide that um um you you you have the answers available to you for a test and everybody's got them. And if everybody's doing it, it it should be okay to do. Yeah, yeah. But again, that's the lack of integrity and and it it creates problems in our lives. The the one of the things that I really want to do to address, Josh, is the the necessity of dependability. In other words, we we hurt our integrity if I I tell my spouse or I tell somebody else, I'm gonna do that. Yes, I will, I'm gonna do that. And then we don't do it. Right. There's a parable in the Bible about that. And so the the importance of actually doing what we say we're going to do and actually doing what it is that we need to do, I think plays a big part inside of what integrity is all about. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about that. Yeah. Um well, you know, that that word is very similar for me to consistency. Yes. Um, and and that if you look at um at in the word integrity and you look at scripture and you you dig into the word, um it it really is all about consistency um and consistency in in your um private life and your public life. So what what you put out there and what nobody sees, if it's consistent. Um and so those words to me are very are very similar. Um, and if you're consistent in your life, if you're consistent, you show up for people, you consistently do what you say you're gonna do, you consistently follow through, you consistently um live out what you say you believe, um, then you then you are dependable, but dependable. People can count on you. They know that if they ask you to do something, you're gonna do it. Right. Um if if you say you believe something, that they can trust that you are going to live up to that standard, that you're going to uh follow what Jesus said, what he commanded. Um and so dependability is huge because without it, if if guys can't count on you, um then I mean, yeah, like that's it's there's a reputation that you build for it, you build capital that way. If if I can borrow you and throw a log on this fire. All right. I love that phrase. Me too. So I'm using it. Um vocabulary now. Um I ran into another situation. I thought about this one um coming up to this show several years later, after that, after getting on uh with with Nancy Johnson and the Campbell agency there in Dallas, I had a a gig and it was uh uh for a group and we were gonna be recording for uh a video game. Dragon Ball Z. We're doing Bobbity and stuff like that. Um it was gonna be a fun gig. And I'd done some work with this guy before. People who were watching the show and have are familiar with Dragon Ball Z at all, don't know the name Christopher Sabbath. And uh he's just a really cool guy, super talented, he's a director, he owns his own company now and all this kind of stuff. Real, just a real guru entrepreneur. And uh I had gone out uh for this recording and uh uh was waiting uh after done the initial recording and then was just waiting because he said, Hey, would you be willing to just hang out a little bit and see if we've got anything else? And that's what one of the things you do sometimes is they just ask you to fill in for this, fill in for this, or whatever. And then that helps them knock off their their checklist. And I said, Yeah, sure. So I'm waiting in the lobby and he walks into the to the editing bay of this one suite and he says, Hey, I've got uh Duncan Brandon out here. He's talking real low, you know, he's got this super voice, like and so it's I mean it's like listening to Honey Drip, right? Something's like I've got Duncan Brandon out here. Yeah, and uh he says, he says, Um, you know, he's a great voiceover and blah blah blah. And he's you know, have you do you have anything that you need fill on today? And she was like, Um, no, I don't well, let me let me look. And then she asks him, I can hear her kind of looking looking through stuff. And she goes, Well, let me ask you if if if he's so good, how come we haven't used him before? I haven't heard of this guy. And and he said this, and I heard I heard this. He said, he said, Well, he's a Christian, and so he's a strong witness, and you know, as we know, we've got some CD material sometimes, so he just didn't have interest in that or whatever. And he didn't know that I had heard that, and I wasn't sitting there with my ear to the door, it's just you know, real strong voice that carried, but I just thought, wow, after just a little time in this industry, there was some of that capital coming back. And and this was a guy who didn't know the Lord, but I just went, there's a witness there that's working, and I wasn't even aware of it. I was just trying to walk uprightly with God, walking into these situations. But there were again, there was something like there that I was already going before me. And now a third party that was in this circle was getting influenced by it also. It's it's really remarkable that if you will choose integrity, it becomes a witness for you. Yeah, becomes part of your whole kind of portfolio or something. Yeah. There's um a passage that while you were talking about dependability came to mind, and probably gonna have to go to Duncan for the the address and and the the complete translation, which is like like a lame foot or a sore tooth. It's in Proverbs. It like stepping on a lame foot or foot or chomping down with a with a sore tooth is like relying on a fool, right? Because he's probably not gonna show up or he's not gonna do what he says he does. Yeah. And and we so often make the excuse, well, I'm gonna do it. I just haven't done it yet. Right. And I but but not doing it in the time frame that you said you were gonna do it is really important. Yeah. I I get the impression, Josh, that that is not something that you suffer from, that you are probably a pretty dependable guy. Would you on a scale of one to ten, where would you say your dependability is? Well, you said earlier that we tend to rate ourselves higher than we actually are. So we'll let you know if you're wrong. Because we know the S. Yeah. I'm not gonna get a charge right here. I like to think that I am, you know. Yeah. Um my my life really depends on me being as as dependable and consistent as as I can be. Um and um I'm not perfect, and none of us are. Um, but but in having integrity is not about being perfect in in in every every situation, dude. Um because the word means wholeness, yeah, um, not perfection. And so um, you know, I I try to be as dependable and consistent as I can, and I certainly do fall short. And there's probably people watching this are gonna be like, Yeah, you you forgot about this. Um you're supposed to do this for me, and you forgot about this. You know, I'm I'm I'm not perfect, but I try I try my best um to be as consistent um as I can uh in in my life, in uh in what people see on the outside as what's going on on the inside, is what's going on um inside the house, and you know, when no one when no one can see. Um and um so you know. I I I try try my best. And you know, you brought up Proverbs, and there's so many instances in Proverbs talks a lot about integrity. And and Duncan may have more insight into this. Is I was looking at at kind of the Hebrew um, you know, that that word, often we see that word when when a word blameless comes up, often translates into integrity. And so we look at at a lot of guys from the old testament, um, God calls them men of integrity. Um, guys like David and Job, Noah, uh Abraham. If you look in those in in uh in the Old Testament, you see that word come up a lot. And none of those guys were perfect. They all had issues and they all had stuff, um, but God says that they were men of integrity, that they were blameless enough, right? Yeah, yeah. Um, and so that's that's the standard, is not perfection. It's what are we moving towards every day with our small decisions. And overall, you can see a consistency. There may be a lapse, but it's kind of like looking at the graph, you know. Yeah, it's going across, and maybe it has a lapse, but but then you see this, yeah, or you see this. Yeah, you know, so there's there's gonna be some natural values because we are fallen and sinful, but you're also gonna you should see over time a straight line. Yeah, you know, and without question, the quintessential element in the cornerstone of integrity is honesty. So Duncan, tell us about tell us about the importance of honesty in in the display of integrity. Yeah, uh so uh in displaying integrity, and and Josh mentioned it just a second ago. So looking at the Hebrew of this, it's it's really fascinating. The word in the Hebrew for integrity is is is pronounced tom. It it's spelled T-O-M, it looks like tom in the in the uh natural translation of it, but it's tom, and the plural, interestingly, uh is tomim. Now everybody out there just went, okay, yeah, so so where we first see this word appear in scripture is Exodus 28 and verse 30, and it's the breastplate of the Levitical priest. You have the the jewels that represent is all of the twelve tribes upon the the front of the breastplate, but inside a secret pocket in the breastplate itself, the ephid, you had the urim and the tumim. And the urim meant lights or illumination. So it was the idea that God was going to guide the thoughts of the priest as he gave counsel and prophetic utterance to the people of Israel. But the tumim meant perfections or integrities. So literally, the first appearance of this word showing up in scripture is right here next to the priest's heart as he ministers before God. So you see God laying down this idea of you want to worship me, you want to follow me, you want to serve me, you want to do my stuff, you want to be with me. This is this is the price right here. I'm I'm looking for integrity in the innermost man. You know, I think of Jesus when he was talking to the woman at the well and she's asking about worship, and he says, God is looking for those who worship him in spirit and in truth, in John 4 24. Yeah. That that is the heart of our worship, is a worship that that is not just sincere, but it is pure according to God's measure in the scripture. The the other thing that that came to mind as I was looking at it is the opposite. The opposite of integrity is hypocrisy. Obviously, Jesus had a problem with a certain sect of guys called the Pharisees, that he called them Hippocrates, the hippo, the hypocrites, the actors, the mask wearers is literally what it meant. And we we we say it's yeah, you see you say one thing and you do one thing. And in Matthew 23, you've got this place where he just tears these guys a new one. He's cleansed the temple of them already, and now he's dealing with them for the last time, and there's seven woes that he pronounces with them, but it all comes back to the fact that there's zero integrity. They are representing, supposed to be representing Yahweh, God, to the world at that time, and it's all crooked. It's it's coming from a corrupt and impure heart that is misleading. That, like you said early on, you might put it up here as a profile picture on Facebook. It looks all good, but behind the scenes, what's going on? And it wasn't great. The last thing I just note here is if you've got this hypocrisy and this integrity as these contrasts between one another, the thing that popped up also was the consistency, the purity that you mentioned. If we think about the last 10 to 15 years here in North Texas, we have seen just number at number, scandal after scandal after scandal, about one a year, as I was looking at it in the statistics, about one a year in the body of Christ, where we've seen some type of leader fall. It might have been a moral failure, might have been financial corruption or something like that, or a lending of the two. And in 2024, I was astounded. In 2024, right here in North Texas, there were over 14 cases of it. And so there is an endemic issue, an endemic rot here of integrity. And oftentimes it goes to a model of leadership that where guys get isolated and there's no accountability. So I think it's just important to note, kind of putting a button on this, is that if we're going to have integrity, we are going to have to have guys around us constantly that help us keep it and will ask the tough questions. Yes. Definitely. I I was just sitting thinking that if there was a if there was a class, an integrity class where you could go and learn integrity, that I would be going, you know, you guys, you guys need to go to that class and I'll support you if I can, right? But I don't really need it. I'm good, right? And we have that false sense of security inside of our level of integrity, when in fact it without that accountability, without somebody saying, no, um, you said this, right? And not to be nitpicky or whatever the case may be, right? And it the other thing that, and I want to get your input on this as well, is that it seems that in the places where we are most likely to compromise, most likely to bend the rules, so to speak, uh, especially in regard to the display of integrity, has to do in the in in the pursuit of achievement or success. If if I want uh to accomplish a certain thing, or if I want to display that I have um of accomplished a certain number of things, then and the opportunity to bend the rules or an opportunity comes along for me to shortcut the advantage edge in some ways. Yeah. But and it's not out in the open, right? Just like we've discussed here, is that integrity is who you are even when you're by yourself, right? And how you act even by yourself. Yeah. And the willingness to or the decision to bend the rules, especially if nobody else is gonna see it. Yeah. Uh, and the unwillingness to hold hold to be held accountable to that. I believe that is a source where we start creating what I would I would just uh define as maybe a new moral ethic, right? It it's okay. This is this is how I normally do it, right? Yeah, but man, if I really need it, then I'm I'm gonna do this. And the willingness to do that, I think is only avoided by having accountability. Yeah. And and having men in your life who would say, Max, um, no, no, it's not okay. You well, you can't just say a white lie and then make it, you know, make it right later. Right. Because it's it lacks integrity and it's dishonest. Right. And nobody can depend on you. But to visit what you said uh earlier, you you talked about those those incremental decisions, and I you you develop you can develop a a rationalization, a justification for those things. And I think that's what kind of leads to it. Yeah. Oh, well, I mean, I was just gonna say you you brought up uh success, like our pursuit of success. Um, and um the reality is is that God's not impressed with our success. Right. And he's he's not impressed with our giftings, even. Right. Yeah. Even though he gives them. But what he is impressed with is our wholeness, is our integrity, is our character. That's that's what impresses him. Because that's what he says in scripture. When those guys I talked about, you know, Job, um, you know, he's he's blameless and upright, right? Though those guys. Um, so that's what impresses God, not our success, not how much success we have, not how gifted we are, not all the ministry stuff that we do. That stuff doesn't impress him. And and and that stuff is really easy to to put on a front. Um, and that's what the public sees. But what's really, you know, what's really happening is an inconsistent double life, right? As James says, a double, double-minded man. Yeah um and um so uh that that popped right into my mind when you when you brought up success. Well, he he's not also impressed with our comfort or our desire to to be fulfilled uh uh in our own means, right? And the same thing I think is true is that whenever we we bend the rules or we shortcut the system, or if I make the the thought in my mind, well, I know God wants me to be happy and this makes me happy, and that we can chase that probably on another episode. But that being the case, when we rationalize that that if this makes me happy, then I set a whole new standard for myself, right? Especially when it's not God's word. It's not based on God's word. And now I'm making little decisions and big decisions on a false credo, right? On something that doesn't exist, but it's only there for my fulfillment. And I I would agree. I don't think God's impressed with that either. Yeah. And then the the thing that I believe that that really gets smacked when I do that is relationship. I I start not being the kind of friend that I need to be to the men around me. I'm not a good husband, I'm not gonna be a good father because I'm not walking in integrity. And it to back to the initial the idea is that I may possess the qualities that could and should demonstrate integrity, but if I am not living that out, then I I have to I have to make that adjustment. And the the I I believe also you guys can tell me what you think, but I think I have to make restitution. I think I have to go back and and and speak and talk to those people that my lack of integrity has hurt. And the if if it's an employer, if it's my spouse, if it's uh a brother, right? Hey, I haven't been honest with you guys, right? And instead of just kind of going, well, God will forgive me, I believe that integrity, you tell me, but I believe integrity says, go to your brother and tell him, right? This is where this is where I've been. And and I need to repent. Yeah. I I I think there's definitely something to that. I I think it's easy to forget because we talk a lot about just the testing of of integrity in different situations and and how you know a lapse of character is destructive and it has collateral damage and all of this, but there's such a positive side of having it as well. There's scriptures that are just just proliferate. Uh from Proverbs and Psalms, you know, with with Solomon. I was looking at this one earlier, Proverbs 2, 7, and 8. He God stores up sound wisdom for the upright. He is a shield to those who walk in integrity, guarding the paths of justice and watching over the way of his saints. Proverbs 10, 9, whoever walks in integrity walks securely, but he who makes his way crooked will be found out. So it it echoes that that old that old scripture from uh Numbers 30 to 23, your sin will find you out. Yes, right. But he talks about obviously, you know, we look at Job. Job is is like the case study of integrity in the scripture, and he talks about how he's gonna maintain it and he's not gonna give it up. And and and this this great wrestling that's going on and all of that. But him keeping his integrity results in an ultimate restoration. No, he doesn't get his family back at the end of all he'll get to see them, but he does, he gets additional family in the process. And there's a restoration of his wealth and his fortunes and things like that. And so he still has to go through the fire. So integrity and and God's blessing doesn't mean that we won't be tested or that we won't have battles where there are losses. Yeah. You can you can and I've been around in in the voiceover industry long enough to know that there were jobs that I was passed over because hey, he won't cuss, he won't do this. And so there's that quote unquote downside. But the the the big thing that God wants us to know is that his blessing and what he offers for us, and I think you alluded to this earlier, it's always so much more than what we're willing to settle for. Yes. And then because if you if you do that compromise and you and you get the cookie, whatever it is Satan's offering really in that moment, in exchange for your integrity, then you've got the black spot on your conscience as well. It's you're wearing that whole time before you repent. Yes. I don't think we can I don't think we can really underscore that enough for folks. You know, there's uh um a verse that means a lot to me for uh for a very long time. Um and it was it was a verse that uh that one of my mentors uh gave me and and he actually wrote it on a note card, put it on my desk, um and uh and so I still have it, you know, because it just meant so much to me. But it's Proverbs 20, verse 7. And it says, A righteous man who walks in his integrity, blessed are his children after him. And so this isn't like everything else that we talk about as far as manhood goes, this isn't just about us. Right. You know, the the integrity and the things and the choices that we make to be whole, to be to be men who uh are in pursuit of the wholeness of Jesus, it's gonna leave a legacy and bless our children behind us. Yeah. And so this isn't just about us, it's about those that come after us and what we model and display and that what we impart into them. A righteous man leaves an inheritance for his children's children. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's what everyone alluded to. Yeah. Well, I think um for the time being, we're at a place where we can draw it to a close. But um I I I do believe we need to dig a little deeper into maybe what is a man of integrity? What does he look like? What's the day-to-day actions of a man of integrity? What are ways that that's displayed? What are the things that rob us, begin to rob us of that? And I think uh we can probably cover that on our next episode. Agreed. Agreed. And that is a that's a good place to put a button on it. Everybody, thanks for tuning in today. We we hope that you're really enjoying Three in the Fire. I know that we're having fun. We're having a great time bringing the show to you, but we can't do it without you. We need your support. We need you guys to click the like and the share and the subscribe. We cannot emphasize how much it helps when when you take just a second to do that and boost those algorithms and help us get the word out about what God's doing. And we have some great resources that we want to point you to also. If you like what you're hearing here, these guys have some amazing books. I think I did one that's pretty good also. You can check it out at our at our store at Sentinel Ministries.com forward slash store. You can visit there. We've also got some cool merch as you can see. It's kind of decked out here on the table and so forth. I've been sipping from my uh middle cup here. So shameless plug dear. Um, and and finally, if uh you do believe in what we're doing, please consider a donation. Any amount, um big or small, always helps and helps us continue to do what we're doing. Thanks so much for being with us. God bless y'all. Duncan Brandon, Josh Davis, Max McWerder. Thank you for joining us here at Three in the Fire.