Episode 3: Why Am I Doing This? | with Gus Bhandal | Founder of M-Guru

Why on earth are you running a business...?

With all the stress & pain it can bring, we've all asked ourselves exactly that question.

In this episode, I speak to Linkedin expert & marketing guru, Gus Bhandal about how you make sure you know your why to get the best out of your business.

Gus is a very witty speaker who oozes experience & chocolate orange in equal measure!

In this episode we talk about:

• Gus's journey from Marketer to Pub landlord to Linkedin Guru.
• Why it's so important to celebrate small milestones.
• How to run your business your way.
• How to keep focusing on your "why".
• The importance of your personal brand.
• How many social media platforms you should be posting on.
• Why music is the great leveller.
• Multiple references to all things orange!

More about Gus

Gus Bhandal is a LinkedIn trainer, speaker, social media strategist, and founder of M-Guru Marketing Agency. He also runs the Squeeze LinkedIn membership community, hosts LinkedIn Local in Birmingham, and is one of the creators of Uplift Live. 

Known for his bold orange branding & practical marketing advice, Gus helps business owners use LinkedIn more effectively to grow their profile, build relationships, & win work. 

He's a regular columnist (and former pin-up, sorry, cover star) for Freelancer Magazine & loves chocolate oranges.

If that wasn't enough Gus for you, you can connect with him & find out more here:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mguruuk/

Website: https://www.themguru.co.uk

Instagram: mguruuk

Connect with Chris!

Website: www.chrisjameswriting.com

Learn more about the episodes: https://chrisjameswriting.substack.com/

Youtube: @nopainpod

Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/chrislubas/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Hello, welcome to another episode of No Pain No Business. As usual, I'm your host, Chris Luburst. Now I'm very excited to have today's guest on the podcast with me, and he knows why. He's a superstar in the world of LinkedIn. He's the founder of the Mguru Marketing Agency. He runs the Squeeze LinkedIn membership community. He runs two events, LinkedIn Local in Birmingham and Uplift Live. He was the cover star and regular columnist at the excellent Freelancer magazine, which will heard me uh bag on about pretty much every episode. Uh he's a LinkedIn trainer, a social media strategist, a highly experienced marketer, and if there's a marketing event that's worth his salt, you could guarantee that this man will be speaking at it. And to top it all off, he's somehow been kind enough to find the time to speak with me today as well. So may I introduce a lover of all things orange, Mr. Gus Van Dal. Gus, how's it going? That intro was phenomenal. That was quite weird.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

I I I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

Thank you. It's an absolute pleasure to be asked, actually. So yeah, I love uh I um I'm loving being here. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Brilliant. And we we finally get to sort of properly meet in person. Well, meet in kind of inverted commas. Um it was a fairly hopefully a fairly in-depth uh intro that I've given you. But um let's hear it from you, in your own words. Why don't you uh kind of introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about yourself for the listeners as well? Sure, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

Um like you said, I think you've covered everything, but you know, my name is Gus, Gus Bandel. Um, I am a lover of all things orange. Uh my uh my brand started life as uh like in a variety of colours, and then it kind of turned to black and orange, and I was like, that's the one. Um and now, yeah, quite frankly, I run lots of events. I run uh networking events, I run a LinkedIn Focus conference, I have a LinkedIn Focus membership, I run a marketing agency. Um, I started my business in 2017. Um and and yeah, and to be honest, I spend a lot of time on social media talking about orange chocolate because quite frankly, it's supplemental messaging which gets people to send orange chocolate to me at Christmas, which is which is great. Um so yeah, it's perfect. That's that's what I do.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Do you wear orange scented aftershave as well to go with it? We go in the full the full hog for all the sensors.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Yeah, but maybe I should. Yeah, that's a that's it. Yeah, uh and I wouldn't I wouldn't pay for proper aftershave, I just probably looked up a couple of a couple of oranges and squeezed them out and carry some Satsumas in your pockets. Absolutely, that's uh yeah, just slowly peeled them so they like kind of it gives off the uh the orange uh scent. That's it, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

I had the pleasure of actually sitting in on or listening to one of uh Gus's talks uh very recently, actually. And if you get a chance to see him, if you're at any kind of market events and Gus is speaking, you've got to make the timing seem because he is exceptionally good, exceptionally good speaker, very, very good presenter. I was uh very thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

No, I really appreciate that. I was gonna say that it just sounded like you were about to say I've had the pleasure of actually smelling Gus once, and he does smell of oranges, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Well, maybe um we've just been talking actually before we started recording, and I'm gonna be going to create today, so we'll actually hopefully be able to meet in person and then I'll come back. Yeah, a follow-up episode of what Gus smells like.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Absolutely. Let's do that.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Brilliant. Um, so I know you've gotten where you are today through, I mean, as as most kind of business owners at um at a certain stage have been, through a quite an interesting route. So could you tell us a little bit how you got to sort of where you are today in uh a relatively niche area, I suppose, with with LinkedIn. So, how did you kind of get to that position in the first place?

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Yeah, no, that's that's a great question. So I I was born in the late 70s in in the suburbs of Coventry and etc. I wouldn't I wouldn't bore you with all of that stuff, but fast fast forward to going to university. Uh cut long story short, I failed at most things in life, and when I got to university, I failed at a couple of other things, and then eventually I fell into marketing, um, which I loved. So I did my marketing degree, and then I kind of uh I lived in London for a couple of years, I ran out of money, then I moved back to the Midlands, um, and I've always worked in kind of marketing-related jobs. Then uh in 2015, I left my long and illustrious marketing career behind to run a local pub for a little while. Um that's what I really learned about kind of how to run a business. It was I kind of went straight into the deep end, I didn't know anything about running a pub whatsoever, but I saw the kind of um how lucrative they could possibly be. Uh, spoiler alert, they weren't. Um so um, but then you know I was I was I ran a pub for for three years, uh it was always gonna be temporary. Um, and then I thought, right, let's I want to get back into the world of marketing. So I started my own marketing agency in 2017. And in terms of the the niching, so I started life as a social media manager, then I started I became a social media trainer. I kind of covered everything from Facebook to Instagram to Twitter to you know Snapchat and Pinterest and lots of other things, etc. Over time I discovered that all of my clients were coming through LinkedIn, they were all talking about LinkedIn, and that's kind of where I was making, to be honest, about 95% of my income via LinkedIn, whether it's either teaching people how to use LinkedIn or actually getting leads via LinkedIn. So I kind of I leant into that and I spent a long, long time kind of really deep diving into LinkedIn, and now that's what I kind of deliver for others basically. It's the world's biggest kind of business focused platform, and I help other people to make money on that platform.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Yeah, great. Yeah, it's it's interesting um a couple of things uh that you mentioned there. Firstly, how many uh people that I speak to on the podcast um and business owners in general, who either didn't just couldn't quite find uh their place in school or in the sort of education system as it as it kind of is, or you I mean you've called it failing, just didn't get the maybe what was expected of them, or the you know, it's very much well as we know, the sort of structure, so we won't go into all the structure of British schooling and things like that. That could be a very dull episode, but a lot of people just find their own way after it by doing things like working their way up in your instance. It was a it was a pub, but a lot of people I've spoken to have worked their way up just through certain businesses and then kind of peeled off and done it themselves, working for marketing agencies and various different things. I worked in a lot of of pubs um when I was younger, and I and I completely agree, you learn so much just about generally what it's like to work, meeting customers, just so you know, the social aspect of it, and it's hard work, you know, you're on your feet constantly. And if you're running the pub, you know, even more kind of stress, and and I certainly wouldn't fancy doing it.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

And apparently neither did you after no, it's um it's it's not something that I it you know, it it's weird. It it was my local pub. So the owner of my local pub said, Oh, I'm looking for a landlord, and I was like, Oh, I could do that, and you know, I've been I was I've been drinking there for years and all that kind of stuff. Um, my my you know, my brothers used to go there, my dad used to go there, uh a lot of my friends go there and all that kind of stuff. So I thought, oh, it can't be that hard. I know everybody, it's kind of it's like tears, right? Everybody knows your name. Yeah, absolutely. Um, but the problem is you when you run a business, you can't rely on just your friends. And if I did, I would be I would have been bankrupt in like two weeks. Um, it actually also led me to quit drinking as well, because I decided actually I'm going to stop drinking because otherwise I'll be drunk every day because you know, running your own pub and stuff. And to be honest, I know I never started again, so I haven't drank for for 11 years now. Um, for example. But like you said, I think the thing is one of the things that I learned when running a pub is uh A, I won't do it again, and B, so so running a pub, running a pub is either a young man's game or an old, sorry, a young person's game or an old person's game. In the kind of the middle of life, you know, kind of thing, you know, if when you're looking to buy houses or you have children or all that kind of stuff, etc. It's not really a time to run a pub because it's a very busy it's you know, I was there seven days a week, you know, almost 24 hours a day. It was it was a very long uh kind of thing. But it taught me how to run a business, it taught me about the intricay intricacies of running a business, and particularly the kind of the legislation and the legal stuff, like you know, getting in an accountant and stuff like that, and making sure you pay your bills, etc. Um, but also it particularly being a pub landlord, it taught me about speaking, about using my voice. And I think one of the things that probably my favourite thing about running a pub, lots of things I hate about it, but the one of my favourite things was it was the fact that it taught me to talk to people because you have to fill a lot of silences or you have to listen to a lot of nonsense where people slowly but gradually get drunk throughout the day, etc. But it's it's having that ability to converse. And quite frankly, if you don't use your voice or you're not marketing yourself properly or marketing your business properly, etc., you're not gonna get bombs on seats. And I think that's the one thing it taught me. So when I kind of started my own marketing agency, I knew that if I don't talk to people or if I don't post on social media or all that kind of stuff, it it's gonna be dead before it even started, basically.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. No, I understand that. Um, yeah, like I said, I I I know a couple of people who have done it, and I know I had to take my hat off because especially at the moment, I mean, God, the pressure that the hospitality industries in uh and at the minute is um is awful. But yeah, so you so you had your kind of marketing marketing education before you started the pub and then kind of gained the practical element from working in the pub. And then um uh how did you end up going from specifically into LinkedIn? You mentioned earlier on that you know that it was where you were getting traction. Is that is that why? Because because it was just naturally pulling more, pulling you in that direction?

SPEAKER_03 10:27

Yeah, yeah, more or less. I think the thing is being I mean, I'm I'm sure we've all seen the LinkedIn post where people like people share job descriptions, and the job description would say something like, We're looking for a social media manager with 20 years of experience of MySpace, and they also have to be a videographer, and they have to know they have to know SEO and they have to know Facebook ads and Google ads and you know, etc. etc. know how to build a website, they should know how to make you know a decent cup of coffee, they should know how to, you know, you know, uh play tennis at a professional level, you know, all these all these kind of nonsense elements, and then it's like and we'll give you 20 grand a year. So one of the reasons I niched into LinkedIn is because I thought I knew that that's what businesses needed. Now, for me to learn everything about every social media platform and keep up with the changes of Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, uh, and now, you know, TikTok, Pinterest, Reddit, Substack, etc. etc. Although I know them all and I can you know teach to a a a pretty good standard on most of those platforms, LinkedIn is I niched into LinkedIn because I believe that's not only where I'm making money, but it's where I can teach other people to make money. And being the world's only kind of business focused platform, I believe every business owner should be there, if if that makes sense. So I th I particularly yeah, yeah, leaning into it was actually the stuff that I've learned and the stuff that I can implement myself, I can implement for others. So all of my LinkedIn training and LinkedIn teaching comes from the fact that I've done it myself, as opposed to just reading some LinkedIn books or watched a couple of YouTube videos and and all that kind of stuff. So uh and I'm always learning. I'm on the platform like all day, every day, and and I'm always learning myself, and therefore I can implement that for others.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Yeah, because it is difficult as business owners and for the people listening, I'm sure, to try and uh spread yourself across social media platforms because firstly there are so many, but also you're trying to get in front of as as many people as possible, and once you start putting out things like video content and um you know, a lot of people listening will have newsletters or other podcasts and things like that, and you're trying to just pull in as many people as you can from various different spaces, I suppose, to get and get in front of as many people as possible. How how how can people manage to do that? Do you think? What's the best is it best to just focus on one thing, or is it better to try and um you know pop up in a few different places?

SPEAKER_03 12:53

It's a very uh it's very subjective, right? So, for example, a TikTok trainer will tell you you need to be on TikTok. A LinkedIn trainer like me will tell you you need to be on LinkedIn, and it's just you know, and you speak to an email marketer and they're like, You should have email marketing. You speak to a podcaster, you must have a podcast. You know, there are so many things, and these are all tactics that we're talking about. So, you know, I my my career and my education is very much based around marketing strategy. So, what I do is so I can go into a business and kind of essentially oversee their marketing strategy and see kind of what works best. And to be honest, if LinkedIn doesn't work, I'll say LinkedIn's not the place for you. What we're talking about is the tactics of how we deliver them to the end user, and ultimately it's about making sure where our end user is and the kind of content that they want to consume. The end user for my business and my marketing agency is on LinkedIn. And what they find is the content that I create on LinkedIn, and that's kind of what they want to see. But like I said, there's you know, particularly we've got podcasts, we've got email marketing, we've got uh video marketing, we've got YouTube, uh, etc. Then obviously we've got all the social media channels, so on and so forth, and that's just that's just one aspect. Then we can obviously talk about kind of you know, out-of-home advertising or newspaper advertising or print or radio and all the rest of it, etc., like we used to talk many years ago in in marketing circles. Particularly for any business that's looking to start uh marketing or indeed kind of streamline their marketing, essentially you have to think about where do your customers hang out and what kind of content do they do they want to consume. So my ideal customers hang out on LinkedIn and they want to um consume long form text-based content. Because that's what I found kind of through various testing, etc. I also do speaking gigs, so I have a YouTube channel. But I don't share that YouTube channel because I couldn't care less if anybody watches it or not. What I want you to do is come to the events where I'm speaking. But actually, I have the YouTube channel because I send it to event organizers so that I can get more speaking gigs, etc. So it's knowing who your ideal clients are and who your ideal audience are, and then creating content that's focused on that audience. So I it's it's not always easy. There's a lot of kind of particularly for um for small business owners, I think there's a lot of trial and error in what you're going to kind of put out there. And then once we start talking about new social media channels like Threads or Blue Sky or you know, all these other kind of things, people will tell you that you always need to be on every channel, and that's not that's not how it works. I normally suggest pick two or three channels and just go all in on those channels and tell people, this is where I do my best work, this is where I hang out, please come and find me.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah, yeah, great advice. And and you're right, and especially now that all of the these forms of media that we can produce are so so much more accessible, you know. Somebody could, for example, set up a podcast in his living room and start and start interviewing people from there, if he so wanted to.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

And so uh, yeah, again, it's very much focused. Like starting a podcast is a great idea, writing a book is a great idea, doing email marketing is a great idea. It's through testing, you'll see if that's what your audience wants and needs. Yeah. Um, I talk a lot, like as a slight kind of tangent here, I talk a lot about force fields, and I always recommend that you should have a like me personally in my business. I have a three-pronged approach. So my force fields are essentially um my LinkedIn profile, my uh Facebook group, which is for like offering social media support to small businesses, and my email marketing. So you either subscribe to my emails or you join my Facebook group or you connect with me on LinkedIn. And if you do all three, you fall into my force field. So my my triangular force field, as it were. Um, and once you're inside, you can't get away from me. Because once you do all three, you can't get away from me. So, and I can tell you, hey, you should also kind of follow me on Instagram or watch my YouTube videos and all that kind of stuff. That's like a secondary force field, but the initial force field, and I believe every business should have a three-pronged approach of here are the three things that I'm going to market to get an audience in. So whether it's a LinkedIn profile, whether it's Instagram, whether it's writing blogs, whether it's a YouTube channel, whether it's a podcast, whether it's writing a book, etc. I always recommend you should have three channels where people can find you, and if they find you in all three places, that means it's a very hot audience, and essentially they're ideal clients that can't escape you until they either buy, die, or tell you to go away, I believe.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Nice. Well, I think you're particularly good at being able to, um, you know, you've we've we've already listed all the various different things that you do within those different things. You've got things like that, that force field that you've just um that you've just spoken about, you've got themes and things that run through all of your presentations. I I've I I don't think I've actually did we fully explain the the orange thing at the beginning. I talked about August smelling like oranges, um, but um just to clarify his brand is orange. I know if I uh if I mentioned that, but um it kind of has led me to think how how long has it taken you to get to that point where everything is is so kind of well connected? Because um that's something which I've noticed, and it and I would urge anybody who's listening to check out Gus's brand in and his um you know his his social media, even if it's just for the research purposes of seeing how well it all kind of connects and interlinks, how long has it taken you to kind of get all that so well um organized?

SPEAKER_03 18:26

Uh I mean that's a great question, and I've got to be honest, I'm still working on it. Um I've been in business for eight years. So it's it's so to give to try and give you a very long story that's boring in a very brief, but hopefully interesting way. So when I started my business, I like two of my favourite colours were silver and purple, and I thought I want my brand to be silver and purple. And when I saw my brand as silver and purple, it looked absolutely awful. I knew what I wanted. I knew that I wanted an icon and I wanted my name. So the Mguru, so you've got the hashtag and a speech bubble, which is the icon, and then you've got the name, which is the Mguru, and the M stands for marketing. So the idea is that the two work either together or in silos. So all of the world's best brands have an icon. So Amazon has the smile, Coca-Cola has the kind of the white stripe on the red can, um, you know, Aston Myan has the wings, you know, etc. etc. All that kind of stuff. So I said I wanted to, so that was the kind of the start of the logo, and then the branding, because I was the the guy that I was talking to, he was a kind of a branding, like a colour specialist. He said, Oh, let's try various colours. The reason we went with orange was because many years ago, um, I used to teach people about marketing segmentation, and I used to use a Terry's chocolate orange to demonstrate it. So I used to put it in the middle of a room and say, What does a Terry's chocolate orange teach us about marketing? And actually, it's audience segmentation, so each element and all that kind of stuff. So that's where it started. And when I told him this story, he said, Oh, well, let's try orange. And then we tried a number of different backgrounds and stuff, etc. And I said, No, let's have have it on black. So the idea of the black is is that it signifies luxury and signifies kind of um high-end marketing, etc. And the orange signifies warmth and friendliness, etc. So the two kind of work well together. Now so that's the story of the brand, but the like in terms of the colours and the brand and the logo, etc. But then going forward, it's about how to incorporate that into my world. So I wear an orange bandana, or I might wear an orange t-shirt, or I I almost always wear orange trainers to events and networking, etc. And it's all these like subtle little touches. When I get a new client, I send them orange chocolate in the post, for example. So it's all these little things that kind of they're just like subliminal messaging that brings people back to that thing. And I get tagged in posts, left, right, and centre, when people find a like an orange chocolate or something, or or they see an orange bike, an orange car, and they'll tag me and say, Oh Gus, is this yours? Knowing full well that it's not mine, but it's it's just that element of reinforcement because it's it's come to their mind, but also it's the kind of you know how it kind of emanates out from their to their networks and and all that kind of stuff. Um and I believe in any business there should be an underlying element of brand colours, reinforcing the brand, etc. So one of my former clients is a uh like a business coach, and his um his business has the word red in it. And so therefore, no matter where he goes, he wears a red pocket square in his suit jacket.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

So everybody now knows him as the guy with the red pocket square. Whether they know his name or not, that's what they see because it's just that reinforcement. Everything he can wear anything else, but it's it's that red pocket square that signifies him in a crowd and all that kind of stuff. And like I said, in a busy world, you know, there's 1.3 billion people on LinkedIn. But if you're scrolling LinkedIn and you see something orange. If you're connected to me, more often than not, it's going to be me or a post by me or something like that. And I think it's just those it's that it's that reinforcement for your audience. And that's something obviously that we all should should be like vying for in our business.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Yeah, I think it's really um underrated approach, I think, because people assume that because their business is maybe smaller, that they don't need to worry about you know the the minute, I guess, of of those kind of things. I might argue that orange trainers would not necessarily be a subtle message, but memorable. But but it is it is it's a great point, and and instantly, you know, when it comes to tying your brand together or your various bits and pieces, just something like a colour or um having the correct logo or icon or whatever it is threading through it, it's it's something which is relatively simple but has to be done consistently.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

It it has to be uh it has to be something that makes you feel comfortable. So if it's if it's uncomfortable, then it's not appropriate. So, for example, like I said, yes, I do wear orange trainers, but if I don't if I'm wearing a suit, I don't wear orange trainers, I'll wear black shoes, but I'll have orange socks. But I also have an orange watch strap and I have an orange belt and things like that. And Simon Sinek, one of the world's best marketers, he did a a talk a little while ago where he said that he always wears something orange because it grounds him. And he said it's it's not about branding and all that kind of stuff, it's actually he knows that he's gonna be able to deliver a great talk and be able to support people how he can support people if he's wearing orange. He feels better if he's wearing something orange, even if it's as simple as a watch strap. So I think it's that kind of it's that comfortable nature of and it could be your like your your phone screensaver, it could be uh a handkerchief in your top pocket, it could be the socks that you wear, the handbag that you hold, etc. and all that kind of stuff. If there's something that just reinforces that brand and makes you feel comfortable, it's something that your the people around you and your network, etc., will start kind of exploring and seeing and kind of and seeing more often, basically. I think it's the like I said, it's that subliminal messaging of just making people think about you as opposed to thinking about somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

Yeah, it's a really important point actually, because obviously um it's no good just grabbing a pair of I don't know pink underpants and wearing that over the top of your probably make you stand out. Um probably for all the wrong all the wrong reasons. We might get kicked out of a few events possibly. But um but yeah, that the whole thing of making sure that it's something that you uh you know it's comfortable, but also that actually represents what you're what you're doing as well. You're not just chucking in a random you know thing. It's a really um cool story, actually, that of that coming from the chocolate orange. I didn't know about that. It's nice thread, I suppose, to be able to lead back to again to kind of nitty-gritty now of the of the uh interview. So this question I asked to pretty much every uh every person who's on the podcast because obviously it's called No Pain, no business. So let's kind of dig into the uh the pain element of running a business a bit more. Has there been a um particularly difficult point um when you've been running your businesses at kind of any stage, really? You know what I mean? A point that's been particularly hard where you've just thought, I don't know if I can still carry on doing this.

SPEAKER_03 25:13

Yeah, um no, it's absolutely been smooth sailing and it's brilliant. And if anybody's thinking about starting a business, do it's really easy, it's probably the easiest thing. And that's it. Yeah, that's it for the day. That's the that's the soundbite. No, I think um, you know, there are every day, every couple of days, or maybe at least once a week, I kind of think, why am I doing this? Like, forget this, let's just go get a proper job, um, you know, etc. And I think uh there's always going to be times to test you. So uh and particularly when you're a freelancer, when you're a solopreneur, when you're a small business owner, etc. It's a difficult one because you're always in the business, it's always yours. So when you work 9 to 5, you get a salary, you go home, and you kind of you know you watch Love Island go and go to sleep. Uh sorry, not Love Island, much of the day of the end. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Um Love Island Glass.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

No, no, allegedly.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Actually, there's a lot wrong with Love Island Glass.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

Um but yeah, I I think the thing is when you run a business, you're you're thinking about it 24-7, and I think that's that's hard in itself. But actually, because it's most businesses, they they become they become our baby, right? So it's kind of like actually, I will think about this all the time, and I will try my best to improve it and help my clients and and support people and and all that kind of stuff. But there are along the way, there are low points of either clients leaving you, clients not paying, not getting clients in the first place, uh somebody uh you know not liking orange trainers, you know, it could it could be a whole plethora of things, and you just never know where that negativity is gonna come from. And I think that that's one of the hardest things in business is actually trying your best to be a good person, while also actually it's the dichotomy of actually, well, you have to make money and you have to kind of find clients and you have to sell your services, etc. And that doesn't come natural to most people. For me, probably most recently is when something happens in your personal life, what it does is it brings to the fore that actually you're the only person in your business, and you're the only person that can deal with stuff and manage stuff, etc. And you speak to 90% of business coaches, and they will say you have to create a business that can run without you. And I understand that concept, but actually, how do we do that? You know, it's kind of and when you speak to them, like, oh, you either hire people or you set up automations or you set up processes or you work three months in advance, etc. And I guarantee if you speak to a hundred business owners, 98 of them will tell you that they don't do that, basically. Yeah, you'll get the odd couple, it's a minority that say, Yeah, yeah, my business can run without me, etc. But then why would you want to do that? I like being in my business and I like treating it like a job and I like being in it all day, every day. But when something happens, when something hits the fan, all of a sudden it's very obvious that actually everything is yours and there's nothing that quite frankly, nothing you can do about it. So that's kind of where the difficulty kind of comes in. So you'll always unfortunately you'll always have low points, and I you know, being in a business is about making sure that there are more high points than low. And if there aren't, go get a job. Honestly. Yeah, that's yeah, ultimately.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

From the outside in, it looks like you've got a very good balance of of um, you know, genuinely enjoying what you do. That's certainly a vibe that I've got from the um small amount of time that that we've kind of known each other. Um, is that is that yeah, fair assessment, do you think?

SPEAKER_03 28:51

It is, yeah, absolutely. I I love what I do, I love networking, I love meeting people, I love making new friends, I love teaching people about LinkedIn, I love learning about LinkedIn, and it sounds really tri. I mean, you know, obviously I love lots of money and I love hanging around on the beach, but um in my business, in my business, I I love what I do, but but like from a from a very personal perspective, so it may look like a success, and it may look like everything, you know, and I'm loving things and etc. I don't love everything like a hundred percent of the time, but of course, I I have a young son, so for me, like when I started my business, it coincided with my son being born, so therefore my wife has a proper job, which means I get all the flexibility of doing all the school runs and taking him to all of his activities like football and swimming and taekwondo and and all the other nonsense that he does, everything else, and everything else never-ending, but I love it. So the thing is, I'm not rich, I'm not a millionaire, I don't live in a big house and all that kind of stuff, but I get all of the time I can with my son, with my child, and that's kind of the the thing that I really love. So sometimes you you have to think about why are we doing this? What is the you know, what's the purpose of flexibility, or what's the purpose of running our business, or etc. etc. You know, part of it is I couldn't get a job, nobody else would employ me once they found out I was a pub landlord, despite the 25 years of marketing experience and the loads of letters after my name. Yeah, it was really weird. Like most people just said, Well, the last thing on your CV is a pub landlord. So, you know, and I'm like, Yeah, yeah, but I've also I've also got loads of letters after my name. Yeah, I've got three, you know, I've got two postgraduate marketing qualifications. I'm one of the best marketers you'll ever meet, uh, you know, etc. And they're like, Yeah, but you're a pub landlord. So I was like, right, fine, I'll start my own business. And that's what I did, and it gave me that flexibility and stuff. So I love it, and I love what I do. And I think, particularly for business owners, don't ever forget your why, whatever that why is, whether it's children, family, wanting lots of money, just wanting not to work for somebody else, etc. etc. There's lots of reasons as long as you don't deviate from the why, you're gonna love your job more often than not, basically.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Yeah, yeah, great, great advice. I think there's gonna be a lot of people, um, listening, myself included, who've got children and who are trying to get those balances right and who have maybe moved into either running their own business or freelance or whatever situation they're in, in order to get that kind of balance and freedom, and then you're trying to sort of not feel guilty about spending time with the kids and you're not spending time on the business, and vice versa. Damned if you do it, damned if you don't. But right, forget you can't forget that ultimate thing of well, if you did it to spend more time with your children and uh or or whatever it is that you happen to do, make sure you're still doing that and don't let it start, you know, encroaching at becoming something that you didn't ever want it to be.

SPEAKER_03 31:50

Absolutely. And I should I should add to that that so between the hours of three and seven, every like Monday to Friday, I don't open my emails, I don't look at my work, I don't open LinkedIn and all that kind of stuff because that's the time of my kid. So he has an activity almost every day. Um but it's also the time when I cook for him or bathe him or all that kind of stuff. So that's my time. And so my clients know that I write I I write it into all my contracts, like you don't call me after three o'clock, because it's not gonna it's not gonna happen, basically. And I say three till seven because after seven, once he goes to bed and you know, I'm sit down and you know start watching Love Island. Uh sorry, Match of the TV. Um you know when we when we sit down and and that then I can then I can open my emails or kind of you know, etc. I don't have to. You know, if I do, I do. If I don't, I don't, but my clients know. So it's it's setting those boundaries as well, kind of in your in your personal life. And I think more often than not, most business owners start disliking their their business because it encroaches on every part of their life. It t it takes over their life. When I now started my own business, particularly the first couple of years, trying to get it over the line and trying to actually start making some money and all that kind of stuff again. I went to all the networking days, evenings, breakfasts, lunches, dinners, all that kind of stuff, etc. etc. Working at weekends, so on and so forth. It there was a time when it took over my life, basically. And then um I d I I worked out that something had to change. So I think that's that's probably my other advice to you know, set clear time boundaries to make sure you know when you're doing things.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Um I mentioned earlier on that I've been able to attend one of your talks recently, and uh one of the things that I noticed not just about that talk, but it but um you know throughout a lot of the things that you do is that music seems to play quite a big part in um in your business and your personality, I guess, as well. Um is that something intentional that you've done to try and also maybe um help to make sure you enjoy what you're doing to kind of keep that going, or is it just something that you use as a kind of tool to maybe relate to other other business owners?

SPEAKER_03 33:59

The phrase often as as we know, music is a great leveler. So whatever kind of music you're into, whether it's uh George Michael or Robbie Williams or Justin Bieber or Megadeth or Iron Maiden or you know, whoever it may be, right? Music is a great leveller because it makes us think about things. Now, yeah um I run the theme of content albums and kind of you know relating to musical superstars in terms of they create legacies and they create lots of content, etc. Whether it's Queen or Wham or Iron Maiden or uh like I said, it doesn't matter who it is. The point is that they're creating content for their audiences. Most people I speak to understand music. They will listen to music, they will listen to somebody kind of thing. It's very rare you'll meet somebody that says, I never listen to music at all. It becomes a talking point about who you're into, what you're into, etc., but also what we can learn from those people that can then say, you know, that we can take into our business, for example. And when I talk about music, I kind of liken it to the fact that actually we all want to be superstars, and we become superstars by creating creating an audience, creating a network, creating a community, and then creating content that they want to see and hear and read and and all that kind of stuff. And if we evolve with our audiences, then ultimately our business will be a success forever.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Yeah, what a great answer. And it and it is it is also um I suppose that's another thing with music, is that it's ultimately storytelling, isn't it? And um that kind of also leans into all of those areas as well. Yeah, making music a level as a great, yeah, great phrase, actually. Um I have to steal that.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

Yeah, oh you're more than welcome. You were a you you were a drummer, right? Is that right? Or did I get that?

SPEAKER_01 35:44

I was a bassist and a and a songwriter as well, yeah. Um gotta throw that in because um bassists get very much overlooked, so they have to start searching for other ways of gaining attention.

SPEAKER_03 35:54

Uh it it dep it depends on who the bassist is. So whenever somebody talk about the bass, I always think of Nikki Six from Motley Crew. Uh-huh. Kind of, you know, and those kind of uh those guys. I always I always think about the old rock bands where you have the bassist where he, you know, and it's the bassist that becomes the famous one, because actually he's the one that's most unhinged. You know, in any kind of you know, if you look at bands like uh uh Poison, Motley Crew, Aerosmith, etc. etc. Because they're the choir ones, they become the most unhinged, which makes them the most famous. It doesn't, it doesn't happen nowadays, but yeah, it used to. So yeah, and uh yeah, having yeah, having having met you, Chris, I can imagine that you had some uh hedonistic days behind you.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

I couldn't possibly say I was far too young. It's it's a a distant a distant memory now, I guess. Of course, of course. I believe there's no evidence of it in the in the in the internet anymore, so don't look for it. Oh, it's funny you mentioned MySpace, you mentioned MySpace earlier on. That did make me laugh. That's where we started off. Uh I am of the MySpace generation, so uh yeah, that was that was quite a funny little uh um mention of it earlier on. Um so um we we mentioned the kind of low point of your um hard times working in business, but what about the kind of opposite end of the scale? And have you got a sort of memorable thing that you've either that you've done or that you've completed as part of uh your kind of years in business?

SPEAKER_03 37:18

It's it's definitely the steps, the stepping stones of you know, kind of like moving up the ladder or climbing the stairs and all that kind of stuff. So everything that I've done in my life, so uh starting a business is one thing, becoming uh like being part of a local member, like networking membership was another, you know, etc. And like you know, making friends along the way, then getting clients and then bigger clients. I've worked with like some massive global companies, etc. Some of whom have made me sign NDAs because they said actually we don't want to put your name on any of uh of our stuff, which is which is obviously a shame. Um I mean, a shame for me because I can't talk about them. But like I work from everyone to from like local like one-man bands to international conglomerates working in like massive industries and all that kind of stuff, you know, like you know, hundreds of thousands of employees and stuff like that, and helping them with their LinkedIn kind of along the way, yeah, which is great, and again, it's all these kind of stepping stones of being found, etc. So, for example, I was on uh I was the so John Esperion, our mutual friend, kind of a LinkedIn trainer as well. Um, he used to do this thing called the Friday shout. So every Friday I used to talk about somebody, and and I remember I was number 160 of the Friday Shouts, and when he gave me that Friday shout, it kind of elevated my business. There was, I was like, oh my god, I'm really proud of this of the fact, you know, etc. And now, fast forward like you know, five or six years, we we run a conference together. So we run a LinkedIn conference together, for example. I am now running a workshop at Atomicon. Um I spoke a social media conference in Cymru, which is probably what like one of the biggest audiences I've ever spoken to. And I could do this all day every day. I I I've also met Mel Barfield, so that was yeah, that was quite stupid. Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, I once also got a hug from Dave Harland, who works with Mel. Wow. So yeah, I you know, and all these things, these are and and although, yes, I'm I'm being slightly jovial, actually, the the important thing is that I'm never too important or too arrogant to think that I deserve any of this stuff. I'm humble enough to know that actually I'm very honoured and proud to have all these little things in my life, and actually it's the stepping stones to the next step and the next stage and you know what's happening next and all that kind of stuff. And I think, particularly for business owners, my advice would be to remember those little milestones and those little things, you know, your first four-figure client or your first three-figure client, or you know, the fact that you can afford a new car, or the fact that you get to take your kid to the park, or you know, etc., or whatever it may be, being on a a decent podcast, or you know, getting a a small speaking gig, which then turns into a big speaking gig. I wouldn't looking back at the eight years I've been in business, I don't think there's any one singular point where I say that was the catalyst to me being where I am today. But it's all the little stepping stones to keep making those steps kind of thing. And as soon as you stop making those steps, you might as well stop, basically.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Yeah, yeah, and and I kind of asked that question for that almost that kind of that answer because it's very rare, I think, that that many people will have a specific point where they're just like, oh, everything's clicked now and it all runs fine and smooth, and now I can go off and and uh run my maybe those two out of a hundred people that you mentioned might I might have that story, I'll dig them out. Um but in reality it is just taking the time to kind of enjoy those, you know, those those small things that you mentioned. Like you said, okay, it was sort of part joking, but actually probably wasn't really, because you you have met people along the way and and you end up going down these funny little routes that you would never have actively sought out. They just kind of they just kind of happen by by meeting the right people and and getting those nice little moments, yeah, like you said.

SPEAKER_03 41:06

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think you know, my my uh one of my biggest pieces of advice around that would be to put yourself in the room. You know, a lot of my opportunities have come because I'm with people, whether it's connecting to people on LinkedIn, whether it's you know making cheeky asks of people, whether it's um kind of going to networking events. Yeah, no, no, but that it's a good thing. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean I didn't I didn't mean you, I didn't mean you specifically, but no, I did but it but it is that it's it's actually if you don't ask, you don't get. But you're you're definitely not gonna get if people don't know who you are, kind of thing. You know, if if I just you know I can't call Simon Sinek tomorrow and say, hey, you know, I'm gonna start a podcast, do you want to be the first guest? I wouldn't even get that far if that makes sense. Yeah. But if I was in a room with him and I went to a conference where he was speaking, etc., and I got to pay extra to have a VIP C or maybe get to shake his hand and all that kind of stuff, I'm that little bit closer. Not that I recommend things like that, but my point is that if you're in the room, it I like that's where the magic happens. A lot of my best speaking gigs have been because I went the year before and I got to know the organizers and I got to know other speakers and I got to meet people in the room because sometimes it's there's just somebody in the room, and if you're supporting others, they'll support you back.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree more with that, and I've I'm um a massive advocate of you know networking, talking to people, and just putting yourself in those uh in those positions. We're careering towards the end of this uh this chat. I could I could speak to Gus pretty much uh all day, I think. There's so much uh information that he's got experience and and just interesting uh stories and things, but unfortunately all things come to an end. So a couple a couple more questions, but sure. Um what what's like a sort of is there like a a particular I want to say kind of a myth, I suppose, the biggest myth of that people think about running a business.

SPEAKER_03 42:56

I think lots of people make it look easy. And uh the and I don't get me wrong, I don't think anybody believes that it's easy, but I think the biggest myth is that we everything we see is everything we get. And particularly on social media, social media is the highlight reel. It's the look at me. And I get people all the time saying, Oh, you're you're so successful and you're doing really well, and stuff like that. I'm like, well, come and see my bank account, and uh, you know, you know, or come and see the the locks that my wife just changed, and you know, that kind of stuff. So we'll see that that's a joke, by the way. In case my wife's listening, she hasn't she hasn't yet changed the locks. But you know, there's lots of stuff that happens behind closed doors that you would never know about and people don't publicize. So yeah, um, and actually, I do need to very clearly say my wife has not changed the locks. I just need to just not think about it. But there is there is that element of well, it's just a s and even when people share their vulnerable moments, they're not they're not really vulnerable, they're just kind of like like you know, when people you go to a job interview and Somebody asks, you know, what's your biggest weakness? And you always end up saying, Well, my biggest weakness is I'm too perfect, you know, I'm a perfectionist. And it's it's complete nonsense, right? You've been stealing my answers.

unknown 44:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:12

I knew that's where I saw you before. Yeah. But it's it's those kind of things. What people are putting on social media. I think the biggest myth is that actually you know, everybody's posting everything on social media, and that's how life is. The the seven-figure business owners were once six-figure, five-figure, four-figure, three-figure business owners. The people that were on orange trainers once couldn't afford orange trainers. Or, you know, the the people that there are some people that run a business not to make money, but actually just to have that flexibility. Because they've got flexibility, they haven't got any money. So it looks like the it might look like they're doing well, but they're not. So there's a yeah, I think the biggest myth is just just be careful about social media. But on the flip side, find friends around us. I think the good thing is that actually running a business means that we can find good people around us where we can be honest with one another and actually be friends and openly talk, and whether you are on podcasts or whether you have a virtual coffee or whether you meet somebody and networking, etc. It's about having that network around you where you can be uh honest and real with one another because it's it's again and again, it's about being in the room, right? It's finding those people in the room that can support you and talk to you and talk you up or indeed talk you down. So that's kind of what we're looking for.

SPEAKER_01 45:26

Although that would have been a lovely place to have ended, I'm gonna ruin it by bringing another question in, which is just on a similar sort of note, really, of just what you're kind of if you had to give one kind of practical um insight to somebody who's just started in the early stage of their business and they're just or they just start to not even a business, just building something, what would you kind of give to the what would be what would be a kind of practical insight for them?

SPEAKER_03 45:47

Finding yourself in the room, whether it's virtue, whether it's connecting to the right people, whether it's just sending somebody a message, or indeed going networking, going to conferences, going, you know, local networking, national events, whatever it may be. So that's kind of one thing. But actually to answer your question, I think the one the the one big thing that people can do is not be afraid of posting or creating content or telling stories or etc. Storytelling and particularly the real-world storytelling, you know, the um you know, the counteract to AI and automation and all that kind of stuff is all about being human. So I think the one thing is start telling your story whether it be via LinkedIn or whether whether it be via social media or email marketing or doing a podcast or writing blogs or whatever it may be, start telling that story. Because actually it's so all of our lives individually as business owners is so much more than the business that we do. If you type in LinkedIn Trainer into Google, there's a million of us, right? But if you kind of type in LinkedIn Trainer Who Wears Orange, or weirdly, if you type into Google the UK's number one LinkedIn trainer, the top result is me. Um and that's not because that's not because I am not. Of course it's not true, but the nobody needs to know that. But because I put it on my website, I I hit the search results, right? So it's one of those things that actually it's about being kind of as as open and as honest as possible, but creating content. So start telling your story online, which then drives traffic to you and gets people to know you as a person as opposed to just a business owner. Because that's where the real magic happens.

SPEAKER_01 47:27

Oh, brilliant. There we go. See, there's your ending.

SPEAKER_03 47:31

That's how good he is.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

He does two super inventors, so I can pick and choose now which one's the best.

SPEAKER_03 47:35

Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah. Or neither, indeed. You might think actually they're both.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

Oh, yeah, I might have to just edit the whole thing out, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:44

Here's a tip, only yellow snow, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

Well, listen, it's been absolutely genuinely a pleasure to um to speak with you guys, and I really I've mentioned a couple of times, but I really, really do appreciate you taking the time out to um to speak with me and to share all of that, um, you know, all of your stories and insights with all the people that are listening. I would be stunned if uh there's anybody that that's listened to that and hasn't got some sort of piece of really, really good kind of actionable advice. So for those of you that are listening, or for those that are uh listening, I should say, what um where can everybody sort of find you, where can everyone get in touch with you and find out a little bit more about you, mate?

SPEAKER_03 48:20

So I it may surprise you to know that I do my best work on LinkedIn. So uh what you look like, yeah, I know, I know, right? You really should mention that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, if you look for Gus Bandel on LinkedIn, or indeed my suffix, so my suffix everywhere is Mguru UK. So if you type into Google Mguru UK, the first 10 pages are all about me, basically. But yeah, do I do my best work on LinkedIn? So come and don't follow me on LinkedIn, come and connect. Please connect with me on LinkedIn and yeah, let's uh let's make friends.

SPEAKER_01 48:53

Brilliant, fantastic, and I urge you all to do so. You you should we should be inundated with I think it's I think it's hundreds of millions of listeners uh that should be um inundating you soon, Gus. So absolutely very funny and apologies for ruining your LinkedIn feed with uh with all the connection requests. Hey, I'm looking, I'm looking forward to them. Yeah, absolutely. Brilliant. All right, we're gonna wrap it up there. Thanks again, Gus, and um we'll catch up again soon, and thanks everyone for listening as always. Bye bye now. Thank you.