Episode 7: It got attention, it started conversations & it raised £10k | with Terry Rosoman | Founder of Rokman

How far would you go to get people to pay attention to your business?

In this week's episode, podcaster, marketer & founder of Rokman, Terry Rosoman talks about the incredible challenge he completed that not only raised £10k for Movember, but gave him one of the most insane world records around (*spoiler alert* it's a touch cheeky!).

A combination of mental and physical strength and an eye for capturing attention helped him raise awareness of his brand (helping men's mental health) while raising a huge individual amount for 'Movember'.

In this episode we talk about:  

• How to get the attention of your target audience
• How he came up with the idea that got him his world record
• The parallels between running a business & physical challenges
• The importance of proving a concept before throwing money at it
• The daily grind of running a business
• How to manage being judged
• How to accept not being great at the start of your journey
• Endurance being the ultimate goal

More about Terry

Terry is a marketer by day who's grown Rokman into a leading platform for thousands of running & health enthusiasts. His platform, community & podcast provide members with challenges that give your training purpose.

During the episode, Terry explains how his own journey through mental & physical health inspired his business and how he's worked through the setbacks of trying to build something that truly matters.

His ability to grab attention got him recognised in nation newspapers, the New York Post and even 'Have I Got News For You' for his incredible world record.

When you listen you'll understand why...  

I've known Terry for probably 20 years & the journey he's been on both in his physical & mental health and the company he has built is fascinating. 

Parental advisory - he's got a mouth like a sewer!

Here's how you can find out more about Rokman & connect with Terry:

Podcast: Rokman Podcast

Website: https://rokman.co.uk/

Instagram: @teamrokman

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@terryrosoman

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terryrosoman/

Connect with Chris!

Website: www.chrisjameswriting.com

Learn more about the episodes: https://chrisjameswriting.substack.com/

Youtube: @nopainpod

Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/chrislubas/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Well, welcome to another episode of No Pain, No Business. I'm Chris Lubas, your host. And I've known today's desk. Desk? I've known today's guest for a long time. That's a good start, isn't it? I've known today's guest for a long time under a few aliases. He's a marketer by today, but we're not interested in that. We're interested in everything else that he does. And this is why. He runs a challenge platform which blends strength and fitness training with weekly challenges to give you a reason to show up and push harder. More on that shortly. He hosts an excellent podcast aimed at getting you stronger, fitter, and better. No influencer bullshit either. Claims to be a distinctly average runner, which is also in itself bullshit, as we're all about to find out. His company has run product of the year at Mental Health and Wellbeing Awards Wales two years in a row. On top of this, there's more. He holds the most niche world record you're ever hear of. He won the 2025 November Go in the Distance Award for Reason, 10 grand in the process. If that's not enough, there's more. He appeared in the New York Post, the Daily Mail, BBC News, and this is very this is my favourite one. Have I got news for you? And he also happens to have an impeccable taste in music. I breathe. I think I got it all in. This is going to be a lot of fun, I think. It's my pleasure to introduce the one and only Terry Rosamond. How's it going, mate? Thank you, Lucas.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Yeah, all good, man. You did miss a few things after. It can't be a good one. Yeah, so it was a November man of the year 2024. And I was uh rear fifth in rear of the year for South Wales.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Is that real? I'm never sure whether one thing you're gonna find out today is I'm not 100% sure how much of the stuff he says is real.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

Well, that's for the guests to work out, isn't it? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Yeah, you can there's a bit of post-research to be done uh off the back of this. That's what the fun is. A couple of things before we really get started. Parental advisory, this man is an absolute filthy potty mouth. So sensitive ears, you've been warned. Secondly, we're gonna hear about the world record in a second, but how can you how do you describe yourself as an average runner? I did a bit of research and I found the average runner is about runs about 5k. The average person runs about a mile. I could do 10k a push and I did one half marathon that nearly killed me. So uh what does that make me? The bottom of the barrel, Luke. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So before we address the kind of elephant in the room, uh the classic world record that seems to follow you around uh everywhere you go now. Tell us a bit more about yourself and what you do, mate, in your own words. You summed it up pretty well.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

I'm I'm I'm essentially but you know, by day, I I am a marketer, I'm a brand marketer. Um, and I specialise in SaaS, which is software as a system, yeah, selling basically software to companies, users. Um, we do B2C, so it's I suppose you could call them businesses, but it it is mostly business, uh, you know, business to consumer software. It's a um my day job is a ticket online ticketing platform. That's what that's what I'm marketing. I'm the head of marketing for a company called Ticket Source, and they provide an online ticketing platform for people to use to sell tickets for their events. Um, I also sort of specialise in e-commerce as well, so products essentially online selling products, and that's that's my day job. But then as a brand builder, I I sort of I love building brands. So I've created my own online challenge platform, which is Rockman, and I run that uh in on the side, sort of in my spare time. But then off the back of that, we've sort of it's not just a challenge platform, we've got products as well, apparel that we sell, we've got the podcast, as you mentioned, that I run as well. So it's sort of that there's a lot of sort of fingers in pies, but essentially it all boils down to I'm a marketer and I love building brands.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

You're a busy boy, very busy, yeah, yeah, very busy. Very busy. Okay, let's get to it. Tell my lovely audience uh what incredible world record you broke in 2024 and how the hell it came about.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Well, basically, it's it was a two-pronged appropri approach. So I'm obviously running Rockman and I wanted to build awareness for the platform that I did. So part of the challenge was to get awareness about myself and the platform. The other half was for charity as well. So I I uh mental health and more specifically men's mental health is a very important topic for me. But back, you know, years ago in 2013, I found myself in a pretty dark place, you know, physically and mentally. And I managed to get out of that by through challenges, basically. Endurance challenges were what gave me the kick up the ass to turn my life around. So having that two-pronged approach, I wanted to do a challenge to both give back to the charity but also to raise awareness for my platform, my challenge platform, but also deliver a message of you know, challenges are key or having aim, gold setting are key for sort of turning your health, fitness, mental well-being around. It gives you sort of direction, focus, a foundation for living. So it was basically by the way, I was doing I was raising money from November. So bear that in mind. So this is important. It's men's health, it's men's health. Oops, right. So it it came down to sort of just brainstorming. You know, what could I do? It what challenge could I do that is both going to push my limits but also resonate with the target audience of men and mental health. And what do men love the most? Massive cock and balls. Obviously. Massive cock and balls. Everyone loves them. You see, it's the it's the most graffitied illustration that you see everywhere, bus stops, train stations, everywhere, it's cock and balls all the time. It's hilarious. So I thought, well, how do how can I incorporate something like that into an endurance challenge? And that's where the idea of running and drawing the world's biggest GPS drawing of a phallus and balls in a single continuous effort. And you did it. And I did it, and I did it. Because that look, we we we live in this age of um fast content. You know, you're on your phone, you're scrolling through, you must go through hundreds of reels, short stories, posts, you know, every couple of minutes. And it was about having something that would stop people in their tracks. So they go, What the you know, what is that? And that's why I think this the idea worked so well. I did my due diligence. I went out there, I had to, you know, my my search history was very uh spicy.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Yeah, I tried to think I tried to think well that that due diligence uh contained, but you know, carry on.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

A lot of uh yeah, a lot of incognito mode used on the on the web browser, and I couldn't find anything um bigger than a few miles. I mean that there were ones done on bikes and in cars that were you know hundreds of miles long, but there was nothing for running. The biggest one I could find was maybe about five, six miles. So I thought, right, there's a gap here. And interestingly, I actually approached um Guinness World Records to see would they be interested in this? You know, could could I get a Guinness World Record? Uh and they weren't. They uh they turned me down. It wasn't for they weren't interested. Why? But of course, what could they cost? What could they what more could they need? Yeah, no, exactly. I don't like but what was their reason? They said it's not something that basically they were saying that it's not something that other people would want to do. I was like, what about everyone like come on? They weren't interested, but then I was like, well, I don't need Guinness, you don't need Guinness to say that you've got a world record, they're just a company. They they tried you know, they're just a company trying to make money as well. You do not need them, you can create your own world record, you can go out and do it. And so I decided a few years back I did a challenge that was 50 miles, an endurance run, and I was like, Well, I've got to beat that, I've got to go bigger, and we ended up so I I searched, uh I designed the route on Strava root planner, which is a great tool, you know, you can design it. And that was the hardest part was finding a route that resembled a penis. It's it's very easy on the micro, you can do it when there's like little streaks and stuff, but when you're zooming out on the macro, it is very hard. I found somewhere, and no pun intended, this is gonna be full of innuendo.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

I know, I know. I'm I'm trying to the editing's gonna be great fun afterwards.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

Oh, you don't need to edit this, keep it all in, keep it all in. The people want to know. Um, but I I managed to find two parallel tracks in the Brecken Beacons that went on long enough that created a shaft. And I was like, right, can I can I tack a bell end on here? I was like, yeah, there we are, nice little helmet. I was like, can I tack on some balls? I was like, yes, yes, I can. There it is. And I was like, my god, I've made it, I found this route. It was only then I saw the distance, and it was 72 miles. And I it was a bit bigger than what I wanted to do, but I thought, no, that's it. That's that's gotta be it. It's gotta be a challenge. I've got to go out and do it. And then came the time of actually doing it and grinding it out. And in all fairness, it was the worst day of my life. It was dreadful.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Like, yeah, it wasn't good, but we got it done. I've heard you talk about this a couple of times, and it sounded absolutely horrific. I told you I did a half marathon, and I did I that was the worst day of my life. I got you know, people are like, Oh, you do a marathon, and then you go to the buzz and you want to do more. I got to the end of that and was like, I never want to run again. It was I I hated it. I found it really, really hard. I didn't quite train as much as I probably should. I was maybe a month or two off what I wanted to do. Um, and so the thought of doing something on that kind of level, I take my hat off to you, mate. It is uh it is a massive achievement. And obviously, for you know, it is funny, but that's the point, you know, it's meant to grab people's attention, it's meant to be a bit different, and uh and like you said, who needs Guinness?

SPEAKER_02 10:50

Who needs Guinness? But and that's exactly what it did. It it it's um it hit it hit its objective because it did get the attention. As you as you mentioned at the start, it the press caught hold of it, it was featured in the New York Post, the Daily Mail, the Metro, the Guardian, all the big the big newspapers. Um altogether, my because I was doing videos and clips and stuff uh in the lead up to it to promote the challenge, and altogether, collectively, I think we hit four or five million views on Instagram, and then all of that translated into donations, and we raised over 10,000 pounds for Movember. And I think I was the the second biggest individual fundraiser for Movember that year, yeah, and hence which led me on then to winning an award at the Movember Awards and things like that. So it it mission complete essentially.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

I mean it did what it was supposed to. A period on Have I Got News for you must have been a highlight. Did you know that was gonna happen, or were you just watching it one night and it was just oh there's me?

SPEAKER_02 11:45

No, they they they get in contact. Um so obviously being in the press is in the news. Yeah, uh, they got in contact and they were like, you know, would do you mind us featuring you? Uh I was like, absolutely not, that'd be fantastic. They were like, Can we use the image that you um you know, a photo that I was running with sort of a promotional image? Can we use that in the show? I was like, Yeah, no worries. And they said, Right, well, we we have to pay you for that, you know. I was like, fantastic, here we go. We must get a bit of money back. Um, and do you know how much they paid me for the rights? Probably not not a lot, I wouldn't have thought. One pound. A pound, one pound. And I never actually got that pound, so they still owe me a pound. I had to sign a contract and stuff and give them the rights and stuff, but they never actually bloody sent me that quid. So they still owe me. The PBCOs still owe me. There's gonna be tickets fee.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Yeah, there's gonna be some interest on that now as well. It's gotta be at least two pounds now.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we've got you've got to keep raising it. Yeah, interest on that.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Brilliant. The podcast called No Pain, No Business. Um, you've been through some serious mental and physical pain to get through the challenges that you've done, and also to build all of the different elements of Rockman that you've you've mentioned, I'm sure. So is there a crossover in um sort of the ability to complete physical challenges versus the kind of mental strain of of building something like a podcast or a business like um like Rockman that you're doing, and also obviously running your uh your day job as well?

SPEAKER_02 13:08

Yeah, I mean what I've found with business and maybe the parallels with physical challenges or fitness is it's the grind, they call it the grind. It is a grind, it is every day showing up every day for little return as well. You know, in the early days, there is little return. You've really got to love what you're doing or see the the big goal at the end that you're going for because I think that that's a big sort of fallacy that people believe is that oh, I'm gonna start a business by year two, we're gonna be taking over the UK, we're gonna be massive. It's just not the reality, it is a grind every single day. Um, and just focusing on a day as it comes, and I suppose that's that is the parallel to maybe a physical challenge. So, not necessarily training, but I think it's it's more comparable to a challenge, like the big cock and balls. It was 72 miles. That is so hard to comprehend when you're at mile five that you've still got 60 plus miles to go, and when you translate that into time, that's gonna be like 20 more hours. You you can't think of that. You you cannot you cannot do not think oh this it's gonna it's demo demo demotivates you is is so uninspiring. You've literally got to think about the next hour, and I think that's what I found with with trying to run a business, trying to get it off the ground on the side, is just it's a grind, and you're just focusing on the next day and the next day and the next day. Because I've had many times where I've wanted to quit and just I like pack it all in, and it's um I suppose it's not necessarily sort of mental strength that you you continue to do it and get past that. It's just you just gotta see it is the next day, just do the next day, just do the next day, and then your motivation returns and stuff like that. But it's it it it's the grind, it it is an absolute grind, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

It's uh a lot of people listening uh potentially at this kind of start of their business journey and um or maybe considering starting a business or or not even a business, but like maybe just a podcast, or um I say just a podcast, it is extremely hard work as I'm finding out myself. But you know, that that point of it doesn't all just suddenly happen overnight, it's not all you know, you see people, what's the phrase, an overnight success, 10 years in the making, you know, it is really is it really is true, and it it is a very, very similar thing to the to the sort of uh to those challenges. I started flagging it about mile four when I was on the doing the marathon and started thinking about not being able to comprehend the next uh you know, like however many miles were left, eight or whatever it was. So yeah, once you start getting into that headspace, it it does um it does, you know, mentally it affect you, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 15:57

It's it's it's that's the thing. I think people see the success stories online. You know, you've you see the people like Gymshark, for example, and I think they became a billion pound company in something like seven years, which is really short. Now, uh it it's just not the reality for most businesses. So the business I work for, my day job, ticket source, um they were going for I think 14 years before they saw sort of like the hockey stick and it started to really take up. 14 years, the director of that company uh he ground it out for 14 years before seeing any s real proper success. I think I remember looking because I went back through their books, uh we did a bit they just recently turned to 21 and uh as a company. So we did a bit of a timeline, you know, a bit of a fun piece. And I think for the first two years, they didn't even have a single client. You know, you so uh you it's a it's a long time, and uh you you've just gotta uh believe in what you're doing, but and and it's it's that trial and error. Just keep trying things, spot the errors, and improve. And it's that that circle of improvement will get you there eventually, but it's going to take years.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

With the Rockman podcast, for example, what I'm doing right now, it it's I've been doing that I think for four years now. And it's only now I've started to see some traction and things starting to move up properly. And we're talking not we're not talking massive numbers. We I think we've just broken a thousand subscribers on YouTube. But this isn't massive, but it's it's starting to see the traction. Yeah. And I think people need to uh accept that that it's it's this it's not an overnight success. Every overnight success I've seen online, um, the people I sort of follow, it's like the James Smiths, the Chris Williams, the Williamsons, the Modern Mind, the Modern, is it Modern Mind, Modern Wisdom podcast? Yeah, you'd think, oh, they're overnight successes. No, they've been working away non-stop for five years to get to that overnight success point. And and that's that's the biggest lesson it's taught me.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a really good point. And do you think kind of with that still in mind, would you reckon mindset's probably the number one attribute to building something or completing a challenge? And and if that is the case, how do you develop a stronger mindset? You know, if you're you know you're doing your couch to 5k with a view to maybe uh eventually reaching a uh a 10k or a half marathon or whatever it is that you need to do, you know, how do you improve that mindset of that first run where you're like, oh my god, I can't even do a mile.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

For me, yeah, I suppose it is mindset, and the mindset you need to have is you it's sort of like you need to drop the ego and you need to accept that you are going to be shit. And as soon as you can accept that, honestly, as soon as you can accept that, I'm gonna be crap. This is gonna be absolute dog shit for the first um especially say we're training if you're gonna say for training, for the first four, six, maybe eight weeks, you're gonna be rubbish before you even see sort of your fitness start to improve. But you need to accept that and sort of put trust in the process and um almost try to in just try to enjoy each day as you go, but yeah, drop the ego and um accept that things are gonna be crap. That that would be the best and and also don't give it don't give a shit what other people think. Because everyone around you is gonna judge you. Everyone, just like, but they they that won't they can't affect you. I think too many too many people get sort of hung up on other people's opinions and it stops them ever striving to achieve anything. Uh I have a saying. I do have a saying. It is a personal mantra of them of mine. Is it sustainable? It's buck'em.

unknown 19:38

Yeah, buck'em.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Oh, it's gonna give you a bit of build up and work out whether this is you know a phrase you've coined yourself, but um clearly you have it's an old Chinese proverb.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

I've translated it.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Ancient texts.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

Honestly, I think that that's the biggest thing is just yeah, drop the ego, accept you're gonna be shit, and just ignore everyone else around you. Because if you're trying to do something, for example, you know, you're doing your podcast now. You're not a podcaster, right? You've never done it. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So they're gonna I assume by the amateur major. Hold on a minute, don't tell everyone, don't tell everyone that I'm a pro. No, it's you're doing great, you're doing great. But that's it. So that it's not gonna sit right with people. People go, well, he's not a podcaster. What's he doing a podcast for? There's gonna be judging, but most of the time you won't hear it anyway, it'll all be behind your back. But honestly, even if the yeah, even if they do have something to say, ignore them because you know where you're going, you and you're you're accepting of the process, and and it's something you want to do, right? You get value from.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Yeah, absolutely. It is it is continuous through, you know. Obviously, this is a business podcast, but uh you know, the things we're talking about, which is you know kind of the point of having you on, really, is that you cross over both of those lines of of um, I suppose quite you there's always close ties between sport and business, aren't there? And there's also close ties with pretty much anything you do, you know, whether you're um starting a business, doing an event, learning an instrument, you know, whatever it is that you're you're looking to do, it's the same kind of principles and the same grief that you get off people, and usually it's people that basically are too lazy or or you know don't have the right mindset to do themselves, to make themselves feel bad.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

Absolutely. Yeah, it holds up a mirror, it holds up uh a mirror to their sort of um lack of progress or or less of lack of doing anything, and they don't like that. You know, we I suppose we're all human, we all maybe all feel like that at times. If you see someone else doing better than you, it makes you sort of feel inferior. So that that's where that discomfort comes from, and it's easier to pull people down rather than push people up. Um, and I've I've seen it a lot. I've seen it a lot. You you try setting up a fitness brand when you've got the body of a melted candle, people don't like it, you know. So that's what I've noticed.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Yeah. Well, I started a band with a bunch of deadweight, so um, you know, same sort of same sort of principle. Yeah, but yeah, how's the solo career going? About as well as the podcast. Career at the moment, so yeah, it's all a distant memory. Right. So, um, what do you think for you has been the most painful part of running Rockman or setting up the podcast, or could be in it in either the business or your personal life. Has there been a sort of particularly low or hard point where you've where you've really struggled?

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Yeah, well, I suppose the biggest one for me, when I started Rockman, um it was I'll tell I'll take you sort of right back. So basically, because I turned my life around through challenges, I sort of I I I knew I had a message worth sharing, and what I saw out there was, you know, it's a lot of sort of fitness plans and you know, people with perfect bodies doing running and stuff like that. And I was like, and basically they're always trying to sell you something, like you know, a top or a pair of trainers and stuff. And I was like, well, it's it's disingenuous. It's like if people really want to make an impact on someone's life, it's not through buying a pair of trainers or a new running top, or even with the training to get stronger or fitter, it's all about goal setting and challenging yourself. And you know, you can look in any psychology psychology book or um physical health book, they're always promoting goal setting. And so I I've as a brand builder, I love building brands. I was like, right, well, maybe I could produce a little like a I called it the anti-Nike. It's the it's like um a brand that goes in a different direction and sort of gives you the truth pill. It's like, look, it's not easy, you're not gonna become a runner, it's all about challenging, pushing your limits. That's where Rockman came from. So I I I wanted to sort of you know Rocky. I do, right? Everyone Rocky. Of course I know Rocky. Yeah. I wanted to bottle that essence. I wanted to bottle Rocky and try and make a brand around that sort of like this underdog, this grit, this determination, this being too stubborn to stop. Bottle that, put it into challenges. What was the question? I've forgotten the painful part. Sorry about Rocky, I think.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Yeah, yeah, the pain.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

The pain. So when I started, it was actually during COVID, and I was putting these challenges out, and you know, everyone was in lockdown, everyone wanted something to do to sort of give them a bit of a focus. So the take-up was enormous. Like within a couple of months, we were I was bringing in four figures a month already. So it was almost matching my um my my wage, and I was like, oh my god, here we go. I can quit my job, I'm gonna I'm gonna do this full-time. The only thing was is when you know lockdown eased, COVID sort of disappeared after a year or two, the the thirst for these challenges had disappeared as well. And I was relying on ads heavily to promote and sort of scale. But when the the want and desire had gone, the conversion rate uh tanked in comparison to what it was, right? Which then made the digital ads much more expensive and too expensive that I could actually sustain. So then I was left at this point where it's like, oh crap, I can't rely on ads anymore. I haven't built up my following or my email list or anything like that. So how I was just all of a sudden it's sort of ground to a uh halt that I couldn't get more people into the platform. Right. And that was a bit of pill to swallow. That you know, that was a point where it's like, oh shit, you know, you're scrambling around, you're still you you think the only answer is spend more on ads, spend more on ads, but they're not working anymore. And it was almost like I had to start again from square one, and I had to really focus on building a community and building following, subscribers, my email list in order to funnel these people through to the challenge, uh, to the challenges. Because you know, it is a service, I'm providing a service of value. It's just there's there's there was less people available now. Does it make sense? So the the ads didn't work, uh, and I had to start again organically. And I suppose that was the biggest that was the biggest pain that I've experienced during the whole process. But but that's the thing. This bus building a business, doing a challenge, it's not linear, you're not just going up all the time. You're gonna have these um these hiccups, these obstacles, and it's about not quitting in the moment and sort of just solving that problem in the moment so you can keep progressing forward.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that thing of building a community and getting people sort of really buying into the thing that you're doing as well is invaluable, really, isn't it? Um we talked just before we started recording about um you know finding pain points for people and solving problems and just finding the right group of people that you're solving the problem for, who then kind of all bounce off each other and start really buying in and understanding exactly what it is that you're um that you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 26:41

Absolutely. You got one of the things was you've got to represent something. Yeah. And um and it has to be really simple. Boil it right down to something. What do you represent? I I likened it to, you know, when someone's buying a t-shirt, that they a lot of the time people will buy a logo or a brand, right? Rather than the t-shirt itself. People want the Nike logo, people want the you know, the Gymshark logo, but not because it's a nice logo, it's because what it represents. And there's a lot of um, and that this is why they chuck millions of pounds into build brand building every single year, just putting the message of the brand and the values across. And that was very important to me when I started Rockman, is like, what does Rockman represent? What how can I boil that down? Because if you can get that right, if you can get this this brand means that, then people are gonna buy into that. They're gonna go, yes, I want to wear that t-shirt, I want to identify and represent the values of that brand too. And that was very important. And um, it was all it was what I was just talking about, it's that grit, it's that determination, it's it's the sort of the never never giving up attitude. And once I'd built that brand, people naturally bought into it then.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Yeah, yeah, I can understand that. And when you boiled it all down, it was a giant penis. That's what that's represented. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

That's uh that's I think when you boil anything down, it always comes back to the penis.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Probably said enough about that, I think. So it keeps coming back, yeah. So, how how do you personally kind of get through those um that pain point, those those low, hard times? How do you personally kind of persevere, especially when you're doing challenges or you know, and building your building your brand?

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Usually um I sit down, I have a breakdown, um, I turn all the lights off, get under the duvet, sit in my room for about a week. Um once I've got all those tears out, yeah. Um like I I mean I jest, but that there is a truth in that is that it can really knock you sometimes, and you just want to throw it all out. Like you're just like, forget it, like this isn't working, forget all about it. But I find time is a good healer. Yeah. Um so usually I I'm I just leave things for a period of time. I just go, do you know what? I'm gonna park this now. You know, my business won't crumble if I if I don't do anything on it for a day or two. It's fine. And anyone who says that any business, you can leave them, especially when you're starting out, because you've got no you've got no customers, like it's fine. Just have a couple of days off, and I usually find that that's in a couple of days' time, once your body's out of sleep, maybe you know you're not as stressed anymore, there's a bit of distance between you and the problem, you can sort of think about it. Maybe you've had some time to think about it, and then I usually come back with a renewed motivation, a renewed energy of right going right, come on then, let's sort this challenge out, and um or problem. And it and I usually find that's the same in fitness, business, whatever it is. Just a little bit of time, just sort of don't dwell on things or don't do no knee-jerk reactions. Uh, understand that, yeah, I'm only feeling like this because I am defeated right now. Give it a bit of time, a couple of days, maybe even a week, take a month off if you want, if that's how much you time you need. But I usually find the the motivation does return eventually, and you're ready to tackle it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

And when you got to that point with Rockman, then where you uh kind of you said you reached that point where it kind of all basically stopped. If we go to the kind of other end of the scale, what was there like a single sort of memorable moment or turning point at all? I I'm only focusing on that because obviously you've already that's what you've spoken about, but um, I suppose you could relate it to any element of your business or or even your fitness levels and your challenges. At some point, has something ever kind of twigged where you've just gone, right, yeah, I've turned it around and it's kind of building momentum now.

SPEAKER_02 30:35

Um the podcast was a big thing for me because it was I I like solving problems, it's nice. Although it's you know, we all want to be successful, but I think uh we we're uh we're problem solvers at heart. As as um as human beings, it's sort of in our DNA. That's what we are. This is what that's what the whole dopamine system within us is set up for. It's uh we it's to solve problems. So when I had this problem, it was it was a nice problem to solve. Yeah, and um and I did that through the podcast because I was like, right, I need to get my brand awareness out there. Uh what can I do? I didn't want to be one of those uh Instagram influencers, I do you know, short form all the time. I wanted to be a bit more highbrow, and that's why we came up with the idea of the podcast. It's a great tool, you can film a conversation with an expert or someone that's experienced a story, but that can then lend itself to clips as well for Instagram, and it was about just revisiting that, grinding it out, get the episodes under your belt. And then I suppose the turning point was only recently when we just hit a thousand subscribers, and it it's all that hard work, those last two years of putting in the effort. It's it there there is a turning point now. Things are starting to work. It's it's taken me that long. It has been about two years since it ground to a halt. It was making enough money to support itself for those two years. And I was like, right, just concentrate on building it. And it's only recently in the last, I think it was last month, we hit a thousand uh subscribers, not big numbers in the slightest, but it's proof that the work that we and the effort that I've put in for the last two years is working, start something's starting to pay off, and it's just that constant uh you know, it's a cycle of improvement and stuff like that. And uh it's all exponential, you know. If we fast forward two years now, who knows where we could be? We could be at 10,000 followers and stuff like that. So that's that's the turning point for Rockman and the brand, I suppose. It was that.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

Yeah, what's important for people listening to understand? I've spoken now to um a number of different people on the podcast, and when I ask that question, nearly every person brings up something relatively recent. Most people have been running their businesses at least between five and ten years that I've been that I've been speaking to, or whatever it is that they're that they're building, and every one of them has brought something relatively recent that they've learned, and again, it just kind of emphasises that um you know it is a bit of a cliche under the circumstances, but it is a marathon, and you said about every uh you know, take it one step at a time, and even after 10, 15, what is it, 14 years you said you're um the marketing company you're working with before they actually hit the point where they really kind of pushed on and skyrocketed, and they would probably pinpoint you know that point, which which is sort of unfathomable for someone who's probably just started out. Sorry to disappoint you all if you're just starting your business, uh you've got 15 years to wait. But um, but no, but it but it is uh it's really interesting that that that most people I've sp I you know I speak to pinpoint a time that's relatively recent where where that sort of thing has happened.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

I think I think you're always um overcoming challenges. That's the thing. We're always doing it every single day. There's a new challenge, and I suppose that's why they're always pinpointing a recent one because they've they've just uh they've just done that. But uh yeah, I would say it's it's less of a marathon and more of an infinite game, an infinite marathon. That's what it is. There is no finish line. It's never gonna end up. There is no finish line. You do this and then you die, and that's it. It's just never-ending grey clouds, dumb faces, and then you're dead. Um I jest, but I that's what it is. It's it it never ends. You're always solving something, and um it it's just the grind, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

Um so what do you after that kind of doom and gloom advice? What do you enjoy? What do you actually enjoy most about uh you know what you're what you've built or what you're kind of currently building at the moment? What kind of keeps you doing it?

SPEAKER_02 34:33

Oh it it it's the it's the love. So when I was younger, this is what got got me into marketing. Well, I started out as a graphic designer, yeah. Um and then I moved into marketing after about halfway through my career because um I found marketing was more subjective rather than objective. Yeah, so with with design, people can say I don't like that design. And I'm like, Well, you're wrong, it's great. But then if you uh if when I when you move into marketing, it's like, well, have you hit X amount sales? Yes, I have, so up yours, manager. Um so that's what happened, but it all came from in school. I used to love drawing pictures, cartoons, comic strips, uh, drawing characters. And what I loved that that I could I could create something, be creative, create something that then someone else would enjoy or benefit from. And I loved that. I really that that was cool to me. And then when I went into graphic design, I was doing like posters and brands for um club nights. A lot, a lot of my stuff was through club nights. Well, actually, I did I did like um food brands as well, and these were all brands that you know, these people they would go to the club night that I designed, and I thought that was cool. So when they're talking about their younger years, going, Oh, we used to go to this club, they'd be mentioning a brand that I'd created, yeah, um, and had having such a positive effect on their lives, and I loved that, and that hasn't changed. That is still why I do things, and it's I love creating brands that have positive effects on people's lives. And the the where I get the kick is that they can when they're telling their story and their life's story, that they're gonna mention a brand that I created that had such an important impact on them, and that's what keeps me going because it certainly ain't the money because you ain't really making any, it's just helping people, it's helping people, but also knowing that you know I had a hand in that, and that that's cool. That's I like that, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Yeah, and it comes across, mate, to be honest. You know, when I'm like you said, when I've I've I listened to a podcast and I'm I'm sucked into your um marketing trap now as well, the daily your daily emails and uh you still on that. Yeah, I'm still they just go straight into spam now, mate. No, but but it does, you know, the way that you're writing it and the way that you're um that you're uh communicating on the on the podcast, it does, it does come across, it doesn't surprise me that that's that you you know that's what drives you because it it is clear uh with what with with the stuff that I've seen anyway. That that's that's the case. That's okay. I appreciate that. No problem. I know we're kind of coming to the last couple of questions, really, towards the end of the of this wonderful conversation. Again, we've sort of touched on it a little bit early on, but what do you think is the biggest myth about building either a business or or a product out there?

SPEAKER_02 37:18

The biggest myth, um, right, people have an idea. I don't know if this is a myth necessarily, but uh maybe maybe the biggest mistake people make is they have an idea and they invest loads of money and they launch it and it fails. Yeah. And I think that's it's the it's the wrong strategy to take. Um whenever I launch a product or something new, whether it's with Rockman or whether it's with um uh the businesses that I work for, it's it's called an MVP. I don't know if you've heard that term. It's minimal viable product. It's what is the least you can do right now to prove the concept uh that you're looking to do. Because the last thing you want to do is invest a million pounds into something, launch it, and it falls flat on its ass. Yeah. So what I usually do is I just start with an email to my mailing list or something like that. It's like, right, we for example, I'm gonna make this really simple. For an example, uh we're launching a t-shirt design. Um this is what it looks like, this is the slogan it's got on it. Would you like to pre-order? And that that and that's the first one. We just get people to sign up. Give me your email address if this is of interest for you, and uh you know, sign up here. Then we leave it a couple of weeks, and then we review it. How many people signed up for that? How many people did we send it to? How many people signed up? If it was lots of people signed up because they're interested, then we go to the next step. Then we actually do the designs and maybe the pre-orders. So we don't even get the stock. You do a pre-order. Because if you've got all the stock and then all those people that said they were gonna buy didn't buy, then you've just lost money. Then you just do a pre-order. If the pre-order's good, then you're like, right, there's something in this design. Now maybe we could do a minimum order of a couple of hundred t-shirts, something like that. So it's step by step by step. You need to prove a concept first before you start throwing money at it and thinking that you've got the best thing in the world. And even with Rockman, the the challenge platform, that was a minimal viable product. That started as a bloody it was you just signed up for an email and I emailed you a couple of challenges. That's how it started. But because the takeup was good, people enjoyed it, then we've invested, and now you know we're further down the line, and we I think I've invested, you know, uh four figures into uh an actual platform, um, you know, like a software platform, use of user uh logins and all this. But it it all started with uh a minimal viable product, the the absolute minimum I could do to sort of solve the problem to gauge interest. And that that that that's it. I suppose maybe that's is it a myth? I think it's just a mistake. That's the biggest mistake I see people doing. Yeah, um, and it could it could be so small. You could just start an Instagram page, you know, of of something, you know, just just put out some posts, just gauge interest. You don't have to go whole hog and create right. I need a lo oh that's another one. Oh, I've got a business idea, I need a logo. You don't even need a logo, you don't need anything yet. Prove your business idea first.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

Yeah, yeah. That's totally totally agree. And it's always all or nothing, isn't it? It's like you're either got this great idea and put a whole bunch of barriers in the way to stop to stop yourself from even starting and getting to that first step, or it's like, right, I got this great idea, I'm chugging everything at it and and kind of running before you can um before you can walk. So, yeah, great advice. Is there a sort of practical insight that you want to kind of leave our listeners with today, then that's for someone just starting out in the early stages of building something?

SPEAKER_02 40:50

Yeah, uh eat shit like in the best possible way, in the best possible way. That that's not an insult. Just get ready to yeah, to every single day just eat shit, eat crap, because it's gonna be crap. You know, posts aren't gonna land, you're gonna get a couple of likes, one of them off your man, you know. Um Facebook, yeah, your products aren't gonna sell, you're uh your no one's gonna sign up for your mailing list, and this is gonna be uh an ongoing process, but it ties back into what I said at the start, you you know, and with training it was, but again, it's the parallel with business, it's drop the ego, drop the ego, know it's gonna be crap, but with every every piece of content you do, everything you do towards the business, you learn from it, right? And then you just make tweaks for the next time. And as long as you just again, this is an infinite game, just kid it's that never-ending cycle of improvement, and things will get better as as you progress. Don't give up because it's only those who endure that will win. Yeah, right. If you can it's it's not about who's got the best brand or the best business, it's who can outlast and endure the other brands because people just give up or they stop. I've interestingly about podcasts. Did you know if you get to 20 podcast episodes, you're in the top one percent of all podcasts in the world? Wow, in the world, in the world, people stop, yeah. They still they stop before they hit 20. So if you can just keep going, you're already in the 1%. And if you can just keep going from that, then you're getting into the 1% of the 1%. And it's it's just keep marching forward, take the shit, but learn from it and apply it for the next time. And it's that never-ended cycle of improvement, and who knows where you'll be in a couple of years' time.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Nice. What a lovely place to end eventually. We went through a bit of a bit of a dark patch. Uh, we've come out nice and sunny at uh at the other end, eventually, although you will be stuck in the job forever, yeah, for the for the rest of your life working. Uh I mean, as predicted, it's been um an absolute pleasure to speak with you, mate. Obviously, know you outside of the podcast and know a bit about you, but for anybody else who's who's listening, where can everybody get in contact with you and find out a little bit more about you know the podcast and everything that you're doing?

SPEAKER_02 43:06

Well, if if um if they want to follow me on Instagram or YouTube, I've got my uh podcast, it's at Terry Rosaman, all one word. Uh T-E-R-R-Y-R-O-S-O-M-A-N. If they want to challenge, if they want to kick up the ass, um and they want to sort of get fit but work around the time restrictions because everyone's busy. We run online fitness challenges that give you that kick up the ass, and that is at rockman r-o-k-m-an-n.co.uk. Go and check that out. And if they want to email me if someone's got a question, I'm uh at terry at rockman.co.uk.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

Excellent, mate. Brilliant. I'll put all that in the show notes as well so uh everyone will have access to that afterwards. It's been a pleasure, mate, like I said. Good laugh as well, good fun. And yeah, thanks again for uh for jumping on, and no doubt I'll uh I'll catch you again soon.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

No, thank you very much, Lucas. I do appreciate it, and good luck with your podcast. Thank you very much. Yeah, I want to see how far this goes. Keep it going.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

At least at least episode 20. At least I can get in the top 1%. Nice one. Cheers, Temer's for you again soon, mate. Cheers. Thank you very much.