Episode 8: Nothing Happens Outside of a Conversation | with Zara-Dee Hannay | Visibility Coach

How do you go about making yourself and your business more visible?

In this episode, I speak to freelance visibility coach, the "lovely" Zara-Dee Hannay. 

Zara helps freelancers get paid to do what they love. She's an expert in getting you seen and giving you the confidence to get the work you can truly be proud of. She also happens to be a trained actor!

In this episode we talk about:

• How to utilise your network (even if you're just starting out)
• Making sure you tell everyone what you do
• How to pull previous experience into your business
• Why you shouldn't be shy about telling people you're just starting
• The difficulties of balancing your personal and business life
• How confidence grows from just doing
• The importance of always being open to conversations

More about Zara-Dee

Zara is an excellent coach who has carved out a freelance career in the areas she loves most - which is what it's all about!

She's put her own spin on being a visibility coach by pulling across all her experience as a trained actor to give freelancers the confidence to achieve what she has too.

Zara is also a host at Co-Work Crew Leeds where freelancers come together to work with like-minded people (definitely check it out if you're in the area!). 

Her excellent podcast, 'Success Behind the Scenes' is in it's 3rd season and is a must listen to fans of this show - I highly recommend it.

It was a real pleasure to catch up with Zara and I'm sure you'll all love this episode.

And here's how you can find out more and connect with Zara:

Website: https://www.zaradeecoach.com/

Podcast: Success Behind the Scenes

Instagram: Zaradeecoach

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zaradeecoach/

Co-work Crew Leeds: https://coworkcrew.com/locations/leeds/

Connect with Chris!

Website: www.chrisjameswriting.com

Learn more about the episodes: https://chrisjameswriting.substack.com/

Youtube: @nopainpod

Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/chrislubas/

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of No Pain No Business and I'm your host, Chris Lubas. Today's guest is someone that's going to be helpful to, I think, all of the lovely listeners. She's somebody that helps business owners, freelancers, anyone that struggles with self-confidence, and particularly in your in your brand. Some people's jobs title create instant intrigue, and uh this one certainly did for me. So um today's guest is a brand visibility mentor. So I don't know about you, but that instantly gets me kind of sucked in. And she's a freelancer, a coach, and a mentor. She's on her third series of a brilliant podcast success behind the scenes, so she's a bit of a pro, so no intimidation here at all. Uh she co-hosts the freelancer co-work event in uh in Leeds called Cowork Crew. And it shouldn't be my favourite fact because all of our information's pretty cool, but she's also a trained actor, which I'm intrigued to find out more about. Uh, she describes herself as your freelance wingwoman on a mission to help you grow, uh sorry, show up with confidence and build a freedom-filled business you're proud of, which I absolutely love. It um that explanation on the website's really cool as well. So we'll get to all of that. Um, I can't wait to find out more, so please welcome today's guest, Zara D. Haney. Zara, thank you so much for joining me. Really, really kind of you.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Oh, lovely to be here. Thank you, Chris, for for having me on and excellent research there.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Well, podcast birth, I think, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

No, no. I um I'm in desperately in need to get like a couple more episodes out. So this is gonna be the uh the the uh reminder, I think, to to get back started.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Oh, there we go. Oh, brilliant. So you're the freelance wingwoman, which I um, as I said in the in the intro, uh, I really love that that that description. What you do, especially on your website for listeners, let's let's hear it from you. What um who are you and what is it that you do in in kind of your own words?

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Yeah, cool. So um I'm Zara D, but Zara's fine. Um I am in Leeds and I'm a brand visibility visibility mentor. Can't even get my own title out. Um, but basically what that means is I support uh fellow freelancers, self-employed business owners to show up with confidence in their business to enable them to do more of the work that they love. Um, and I believe that comes from doing the kind of work on yourself as well as the work on the business. It's not just pure business coaching, it's very much around that person, centered around the person, what they want and what they need the business to kind of look like. Um and yeah, visibility that might encompass showing up online with confidence. It might be going out and doing more in-person networking and finding different strategies that you can increase your basically get your name out there with confidence and and not be afraid to um kind of go for it. So bit of a cheerleader, uh bit of a um, yeah, a bit of a some of my clients like to say that kick up the bum that they need.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

Yeah, but it sounds so interesting, and it's something which um, you know, I again I I kind of referred to it in the intro, but it's definitely something that all the listeners really I think probably will um will will look forward to hearing more about and probably could do with a bit more because it is it is difficult not just starting the business and having the confidence, but as you as you move on, there are different kinds of stages where having that confidence getting knocked or uh or certain things that you're maybe changing direction or introducing new things, and just knowing sort of where to show up and and and how to show up at certain things. So when you mention like networking and things like that, you know, a lot of people either shy away from it or just flat out hate it. So yeah, really um really interested to to find out a bit more about about that. The very first time I kind of became aware of you, I I think it was probably through Freelancer magazine, yes, or maybe one of the co-working events. And when I was just looking you up and looking at your website, I found an IMDV credit, and I thought, there can't be two Zara D Haneys, that's two it can't be possible. So, um where does your kind of acting past come from then? Is that something you kind of started off doing then of changed direction?

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Yeah, so that's like it's I think it's one of the main reasons that I now support creative industries because I've got that background um in in the arts myself, um, in acting, that was always what I wanted to do. Um, and at 18 I went to uh to drama school to study acting. Uh that's what my degree's in, did three years. It was a TV and film drama school, um, and worked self-employed as an actor for about two or three years after leaving drama school. Um, but I was still very young at the time. I was 21 when I graduated, and all of this stuff that I'm doing now, like showing up, putting myself out there, pushing myself out of my comfort zone, at that time it was a lot, like going to auditions, um, constant rejection, not having like living in London and trying to meet, you know, keeping up with your rent and never they always say to be like a s a successful actor, you need a side job that you hate. Um, but I just couldn't, I couldn't do that. Like I didn't want to just have like a you know something, uh side job that kind of paid the bills, but I didn't enjoy it. Um so consequently ended up like working um as a Saturday girl at an estate agent, which then turned into like a part-time role. Um, and they actually let me do the acting alongside it, which was brilliant. Oh wow. Um, but then it was like, right, I want to go travelling, I want to go to Australia, and I need I need money for that. So I um I ended up taking a full-time role there for a little bit, um, and then over the years kind of did drifted away from acting and did more on the sales and marketing side, and I think that's kind of where uh I then retrained back in 2022 to do my coaching diploma 2021. Um and and I think now it's weird, it's like all this different stuff you've done in your your your your past kind of accumulates, and I I feel like it was hard to decipher it at one stage, but now it's like no actually, it all kind of makes sense as to you know what I'm what I'm doing now.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Yeah, definitely, and I that's totally true. I think pretty much any business owner will always draw on different experiences from things that they've done, and particularly uh I guess the rejection side of things, unfortunately is something you kind of have to get used to, pretty much, I suppose, uh whatever business you're you're running. Yes, that it's gonna happen at some point. So was the actin uh has that been specifically a good tool for now? Like you said, you're working with creatives now. How how what what sort of skills from the acting have you kind of carried over into what you're doing into what you're doing now? Because it does seem like a um quite a good initially. It's like how how where do you go from you know they seem like two different ends of spectrum, but but actually pretty good uh area to start from, I would imagine.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Yeah, it's um it's a it's a it's a good question to ask me right now because I'm currently at a stage in my business where I feel like there's a missing piece between like what I can offer in terms of using that background even more. And I think it was actually a question from I don't know if you attended the freelancer uh masterclass um a couple of weeks back, and I think it was Penny Brazier that did a copywriting workshop, and in that workshop, one of the questions was we had to kind of look at our competitors and pick out anything that m we might do differently or like experience that we have that our competitors wouldn't. And I was like, Well, I don't know anyone else that does what I do that's done acting, you know, that's got that background. Um, and then that really got me thinking, you know, how can I utilize that skills into what I do now? And it became apparent a lot of the stuff I was already doing was, you know, what I'd learnt from drama school, you know, confidence in speaking um and you know, communication, a massive part of it. So there's quite there's quite a lot of elements that I I'd just never really considered before.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Um, so so yeah, it's a good time to ask me that question because it's something I'm thinking about at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

Yeah, that's that's actually something that I've also kind of been through previously because when you've got a role that's there's lots of copywriters around, for example, I've kind of tried to draw on because I used to be in a band. Uh as I imagine the listeners now will be sick of hearing about um uh but I I used to be in a band and uh yeah, so you know, drawing on the things that I learned and uh how I even got into copywriting through uh through writing music basically. So I can complete I can kind of understand that way of trying to get that little bit of I I've in the past tried to sort of separate a lot of the things that I do, and sometimes actually you're better off leaning into it to make it because that's what makes you different. Uh so that's um really cool and it does it from an outsider perspective, certainly it's it's something that that you know is really interesting I found really interesting straight away. I was like, oh wow, that's uh that's a pretty cool kind of additional string to your to your bow. Um so you you've relatively recently become a a freelance and uh coach then in I think was it 2023? Is that is that right? Yes, yes, relatively recent. So what's the biggest difference now in how your business looks? Uh, you know, where where believe it or not, almost three years well, we are three years down the line. What's the kind of business the biggest difference from where you very first started that and this business to where you kind of are now?

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Yeah, yeah, so um quite a big difference really when I first started, I didn't really know what it was gonna look like. Um, as I'm sure a lot of people in our position, you know, you think you're gonna start do one thing and then that gradually becomes something else. Um initially, because I knew that I had to get you know visible straight away with the with what I was doing, it was just it was a non-negotiable that I needed to be out there, like I needed to be on social media, I needed to um get my business out there somehow, and so I needed to be able to advertise my services as um something that at that time I felt confident with. Um, so it was purely confidence coaching when I first started, um, and and it was with women because I thought, oh, that'll be good, you know, that'll give me like a bit of a niche or whatever. Um, so it was confidence coaching for women, and then I slowly realised that a lot of people were doing like solely women coaching, and I didn't just want to work with women, like I wanted to help everybody. Um, and it was also like, although a lot of my work now is heavily based on mindset and confidence, it's really hard to sell confidence. People people people want the result, they don't want to know what actually has to happen to get there. That phrase of uh sell them what they want, give them what they need. Um so so over time that has it's always been rooted in confidence, but it's kind of changed in how I actually market it in order to um create a better understanding from people.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

I completely understand that because to get confidence you have to probably go through some pretty the stuff that you that makes you feel a bit gross, I suppose, and the stuff that's that's not nice putting yourself out there and doing things that make you ultimately feel uncomfortable. So I I do I kind of see where you're um where where the not the issue as such, but where people would struggle to be like, right, yeah, I don't really want to do all this work, I just want to be confident. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How do I do it quick?

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Confidence comes from doing it, you know. We can't just wake up and have it. So uh I help people to understand how they can create a path to be able to do it um and actually get started on that path to build the confidence um over time. And we all know as like you know, solo business owners, how you know, by yourself trying to think of everything and you question things, don't you? But having that extra pair of kind of eyes and ears to to discuss things with um my clients find really beneficial.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of people listening will probably either be at the beginning of the journey of starting a business or or think it would be starting a business, or be in that kind of sticky patch where they're like, oh, do I go this way or that way? And a lot of the time, I know I've I've certainly done this, I'm kind of self-critical about very minor things that most potential customers or people that you're trying to um you know get in front of are not even gonna really notice until and then before the time all those little chip little bits of pieces that you've chipped away at over you know two, three, four, five years come in come into you know, you've got uh, for example, a really really good website. I loved uh when I went when I was seeing a website, it's really well branded, it explains what you do really well, and I doubt you just kind of clicked your fingers and that's the website now that you've got it for people who are starting now, you know. Don't worry too much about the fact that it's perfect when you first start.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Yeah, yeah, that's so important. Like that I think when you first start, you think, right, I need a logo, I need a polished website, I need to have business cards, and actually what you need to be doing is getting out there and telling people what you do. You know, we had this conversation uh before we started recording about your podcast. This is a new venture for you. And you said you've been surprised how many people have actually, you know, said yes and and wanted to be on it. But would that have happened if you hadn't have talked about it, if you hadn't have got it out there? So um I think that is super important. Don't stress the small, even though it feels huge, don't spend thousands of pounds on a website at the start because that is gonna change over time.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I've definitely spent about two years doing my website, I think, and I uh got to the end, it was like, I want to start this again. Um completely ridiculous, really. But it helps having a bit of guidance, doesn't it, and having some people around you, I suppose, that that that know and well, somebody like yourself who can who can kind of coach that sort of um that sort of stuff so that people can focus on the things that that really do matter, I suppose. So when you when you moved from because I think you said you were in a night kind of nine to five before you went uh into freelance, what was the sort of most difficult or the most different element do you think of moving from that to to freelance? Because again, I I think a lot of people will be in that position where they're like, oh do I, don't I sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Um I think it it's really weird because I left a nine to five and I have like a lot of freedom around what I do now, my schedule, and you know, depending on what how many clients I'm working with, I can shape my calendar around that. And I do find myself working nine to five. It's just the structure. Like, I mean, it's I say five, it's usually three or four o'clock, and I am done. Like, I I'm not I don't operate very well after that time. Um but I like structure, I'm very disciplined. Like I like to try and keep a routine um with my work. Um, so that wasn't such a a problem, I'd say, for me. The the kind of switching from having a manager there and you know, your workflow, that was that came quite naturally. Um, I guess one of the obvious things was the team, like having a team around you. Um I'm um I like to say I'm an introverted extrovert, so um, like I'm alright, I'm good in you know, crowds and things like that, but I do need my time as well, um, and away from um everybody. Um but it wasn't really until like I'd say maybe last year that I started to feel like at first it was like, yes, I've got, you know, I'm by myself, I've got all this time to work on my business, and then suddenly last year I was like, I'm lonely. Like I feel I feel like I need to get myself, you know, back out there with people doing a similar thing. And um so that was one of the things, team. Um, and then another obvious one is obviously pay. Like you're getting a regular income every month in a nine to five, and when you go freelance self-employed, it's gonna be varied all you know, all over the place. So that can be very difficult to kind of navigate in the in the early days 100%. Well, I say early days, you know, even even now.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

I was gonna say that doesn't stop, does it?

SPEAKER_00 18:00

No, exactly. So that's a huge thing I think you have to consider before you go, um, you know, uh f if you're going into it full time, um, the money side is is something that I think we do really need to be like really honest with ourselves. And I probably left my because I went I was full-time, then I went part-time while I was building up my clients, and then I probably left too early. I didn't have enough clients. Yeah. But looking back, if I hadn't have left at that point, would I be where I am now? Probably not. So it's a difficult one.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

It's a really tricky balance, isn't it? Because in when you look back, you think, oh, I should have done this and I should have done that, and and this worked and that didn't, and why did I hesitate? But it's such a big decision at the time, and and that that sort of safety net of regular income, I think, is probably the big one for most people. Um because you've got to worry about your job and the fact that if you don't do it properly, then you're not gonna get any money. And whereas at least when you're employed, you've got to worry about your job, or at least you know at the end of the day, unless you're doing a really bad job, I suppose, that you're gonna get you're gonna get paid at the end. Um but it's interesting that that nine to five thing is is it's so ingrained, isn't it, that you end up it really it's very, very difficult to kind of shift the patterns, even if you're like you've said, you know, if you finish in three or four, uh because of maybe um I don't know, people have children and things like that, I suppose, and and you've got school runs and various things, all everything sort of starts at nine and and and ends around about the same time. So it is quite hard to kind of uh change that. I I'm going off on a tangent a little bit. I said I wouldn't do this, but uh I read an article by um a guy called Chris West, who's a copywriter, and he he wrote about how people retire and they can't uh they they get rid of anxiety about retiring because your brain kind of craves that regularity. So yeah, it's just it's something that is kind of ingrained even beyond the kind of nine to five thing. If you don't have some sort of frequent or regimented kind of routine of some description, uh then it your brain starts kind of freaking out and making you exhausted and anxious and all these different things.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Really interesting um uh to our brain doesn't like open-endedness, like our brain likes conclusions and it likes to know, you know, it likes to know what you know, even if we're we're not sure about something, give it an answer because otherwise it'll just keep searching. That's right. Um so I think that's where the structure, you know, comes in for a lot of people. I know a lot of people it doesn't work for uh, they're not able to, um, you know, maybe they work differently. Um, but yeah, um I think it just you've just got to find your flow that works for you, haven't you?

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think that's that's totally right, especially when you get to the point of being of being freelanced and doing your own thing, because that's kind of the point. You should be trying to make it work around around universe. Saying that and doing it are two very different things, so uh kind of along a similar sort of track, I guess. Uh I asked this question to all to all my guests. So, what's been the kind of most painful part of running your own business? Do you think? I it could be either you know it's part of your business or something that's crossed over into your um personal life if you if you like. Um has there been a kind of point that's just been particularly tough?

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Um boo-ba-da-boo. I was trying to think of this when I woke up this morning. I was like, I need to have an answer. I need to think. Um, no, there's no definitely, you know, there's been those moments where I have just, you know, cried and just and just been like, you know, life could be so much easier, especially in the early days if I just went and got like, you know, a full time job and I knew where the money was coming from and how much easier would that be? And then you think you start looking at jobs and you just think, oh, this is why I left. I don't want any of that. Um Um but as aside from that, those moments of kind of you know doubt and despair that I think a lot of us have, one of the things I've found a little bit harder uh more recently is external factors outside of the business that happen in your personal life, um that um, you know, you won't you might not necessarily be feeling 100% in yourself and you know, doing what I do, I need to practice what I preach, I need to be visible, I need to be um, you know, setting a good example for the people that I work with. But when those times have happened where maybe something has happened that, you know, is taking me away from the business, I don't feel like I want to be in front of people, I don't feel like I want to show up, I want to hide away, I want to protect myself, and so finding a that balance has been a little bit um you know difficult. How do you do that? How do you how do you still go through what you need to go through, but still keep the your momentum with your your business still show up for it, even though you might not be feeling um your best self, as you know, as people like to say. So that's definitely something that I have consciously been trying to navigate um more so towards the latter half of last year. So I don't know if you have felt that yourself at any point.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Uh multiple times, yeah. The reason I ask it, I mean, obviously the the whole point of the podcast is it's called No Pain, No Business, to just help people who maybe know people that run businesses, or who more so people who are starting a business or who are just at that point where they're making that decision or have hit a kind of bit of a rut to understand that unfortunately that's just an element of running a business, regardless of whether you're doing a if you're on your own running a freelance business or if you're running a team or if you're got a great big corporation that you've that you've created, the problems just change. There's no sudden moment where it all just goes, ah right, this is easy now, and you just kind of trot on. Even at the highest uh level, you know, people are still having those same problems. And it's just so that you know the people who are listening don't feel like they're on their own when those uh when those things come in because I think pretty much everyone at some point or another has thought I don't want to do this anymore, and thought, shall I do that? Yeah, pretty much exactly what you said. You start looking for jobs instead and thinking, oh, it's just easier to do that, which is what you just try to get away from. So again, probably probably a little bit of your of the your brain again doing exactly that thing of right, I don't like this not knowing sort of thing. Um let's go back to what what what we're comfortable with.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Yes, safety, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Have you ever got that close to to actually stopping it and giving up? And um with what you do, I I I don't know whether it's a little bit maybe it's a bit naive of me to think it, but whether because of your uh you know a confidence coach, do those things does that help you to kind of get through those those as well?

SPEAKER_00 24:59

I I I mean we all know it's hard to apply what we you know um what we teach our what we you know help other people with. Absolutely. Um but I think um having a supportive network around you that believe in you so that when that when you might not be able to believe in yourself or your self-belief is you know being knocked or your confidence is being knocked, um having those people around you that pick you back up and um elevate your confidence, and we can find ways to do that ourselves as well. We can have a little toolkit to be able to do that, you know, something as simple as keeping a sheet with all the feedback that you've got from different clients and all the positive words that they've said about you and um you know feedback from a project, taking a look at stuff um to kind of raise your confidence back up. But yeah, I think my partner or fiance, I should say, um he is very supportive of what I do, and that really helps me to kind of you know just knock come knock myself out of it and think, right, come on, fresh day, let's let's go for it. And I always think, you know, when it if it is slow or something like that, I'm like what I always say to my clients is well, what have you done this week to get you to where you need to be? And if I haven't done that, then I've got no excuse.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Yeah, totally true. Yeah, on that kind of note. I mentioned again in the intro that you're running the co-work crew now with uh with Sophie. Yes, do do do regularly with Sophie, sorry, it's Sophie Cross, creator of Freelancer magazine. Could you tell us a little bit more about that and why it's so important do you think to have that that network of people? Because you've touched on it already. Yeah. Um, so so how does that work? And because it's it's absolutely brilliant. I've um I've only done a couple of online versions of it, but the concept is I think is is excellent.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Yeah, yeah. So it's called um co-work crew, um, and it was set up in initially, I think, in Northampton. I hope hopefully that's right. Um but Penny Penny and Joe who set it up, um, they did it because they're both freelancers, both self-employed themselves, and they were just like, I really want to, you know, like we were talking about, really want to be around people, like feel like I've got a team again for when I'm doing my work. So it started quite small, I think. Um, and and then gradually it has grown to various different cities. Um, and Leeds is going to be the first one that's kind of up north. Um, there's ones in Birmingham, London, um there's there's various different ones now, and it it's just a day of people getting together, fellow kind of business owners, self-employed people to work, um, hopefully get some work done. Um, maybe the lighter tasks, you know, that you that you don't necessarily have to get done. Um there's cake um at lunch, so that's always something to look forward to. Um I mean and there's also um there's also a speaker at every event, so you learn something new um as well. And I'm speaking like I'm like know all about this, but Friday is actually the first one for for us in Leeds. So I didn't realize it. Yeah, it's the first ever one. So um me and Sophia are hosting it, and Penny and Joe are gonna be there as well for the the kind of opening one. So but yeah, well, like you were saying.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Yeah, I can't I can't wait to be honest, because like like we were just saying about you know surrounding yourself with people and it just came at the right time. It was it was bizarre, really. Um so so yeah, really excited to get started. Oh nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

I've like I said, I I've only attended an online version of Quick, which I think it was Angela that was uh that was hosting Angela. Yes, she does the London one. It was weird how just because for the majority of the time you just sat there with people on the zoom sc on the screen just working. It's a psychological thing, I guess, but it just forced me to do more in that two hours from just having other people there. There there are a couple of breakout points where you meet people in the chat as as as well as is kind of an organise, you're not literally just turning up and then sitting there in silence. I guess that would be probably a bit weird, but um but that bit it was I got so much done that day, and I was like, this is bizarre how uh how effective it is, but also obviously brilliant. So I imagine that in person, even um even better again. But it is important, isn't it, to be around other people, particularly when you're on your own. Uh you've mentioned yourself that you know after a couple of years of it, particularly that you're you're crave another other people and just someone to talk to other than the kind of four walls or in my case the dogs. Uh so what so how important is that network, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Yeah, I just um I I think a a regular kind of um event or like you were saying, even on your online co-working things that there is available to people, um is really important to like I'm I'm obviously speaking to clients when I'm doing my my coaching sessions um one-to-one, but that that is you know purely work, you know, um whereas whereas it's like you know, oh have you seen this? Have you have you um have you tried this? Oh, I've got a problem with this, you know, oh I've been through that myself, you know, all those little kind of ideas, even, you know, you might want to just say, Oh, I'm thinking about this, what do you think? It's just like, you know, like you would have uh at say in an office environment, you could turn your chair around and say to so and so, or what would you do with this? You can't do that necessarily if you're you know by by yourself at home. So just creating that environment. And for anyone that is thinking, well, where do I find these things? Because I don't know how to get involved with them, just utilize you know the tools that we have the internet, Google, Chat GPT, you know, just have a have a search, eventbrite. Um, there's bound to be stuff in your area um that you can get involved with. I think that's one of the things that people say is, well, I just don't know where they are, I just can't find them. Just got to do a bit of digging and and give each one a go because each one you go to is gonna have a different feel and a different vibe, and you might not necessarily enjoy one as much as the other. So just give it a go.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

It's really important that because a lot of people, particularly if they've been in previous roles before starting their business, would have probably experienced networking events, and I've spoken about this on a couple of other episodes, but that are not particularly great, or that just don't suit I say they're not great, that's probably unfair, but they don't suit what you're trying to achieve. Whereas uh in my experience, the uh networking events and and any sort of event that I've attended, which has included freelancers, has been a completely different uh vibe, and obviously it's not gonna be the same everywhere, but it's been pretty consistent. Most people are kind of in the same boat, and everyone's just trying to just help each other out. There's no kind of it doesn't feel like you're up against somebody else in the room as always kind of I don't know, it's just a much more friendly atmosphere from what I've experienced in the in the last year or so, but they've all been either online or in person, and each one of them has has c I've come away with either meeting new people or something that I didn't know or some help or some work in some cases, but uh you you're not necessarily doing it to get work, whereas in uh a lot of the a lot of the other networking events it's geared for you to get as much work as possible, and there's that pressure to sell yourself and get you know getting thrown business cards in your face before you've even kind of walked through the door. Whereas I mean I I'm a massive advocate of freelancer magazine, and I know I know you are as well, just because the the people that that have made it and the community that it's built are just all genuinely lovely people that want to that just want to help each other. So that's exactly what you said. It's it's just so important to have those people to kind of bounce off if nothing else and get help. Yeah, I totally agree. You mentioned about getting through kind of the the lower points in your area where you've where you've struggled. Is it purely for you? Is it just trying to revert to some of the things that you're trying to teach your clients and your customers, or do you have anything else that you kind of lean on, or is it purely kind of trying to just reset?

SPEAKER_00 33:33

I think you always have to go back to why. Like that for me, that's one of the most important things that I kind of lean on when I'm doubting my like if I'm doubting my decisions or uh journey, always go back to the why. So, like, why did you start this in the first place? Like, why is this important to you? Why do you do what you do? Um all those things have um that got you here in the first place, you know, you need to really remember that because it can be dwindled with you know with a confidence knock or something like that, or if things aren't going your way, it's easy to forget why you started in the first place. Um and that that if that's strong enough, if that why is like you know, really strong enough, it should always bring you back to um where you want to be. And that that might look different, you know. That might be it might bring back you to where you want to be, but it might think, okay, well, how else can I, you know, how else can I develop what I offer? What other services can I provide, or how can I specifically focus on something? So always come back to the why.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

Yeah, that's a really cool way of looking at it to think about how you know um just changing your kind of mindset a little bit and thinking about uh about those those additional things. We've been fairly negative, I suppose. Not negative, but we've been looking at all the sort of pain pain of running a business. There are also nice things. So for you, has there ever been has there been up to this stage like a sort of major turning point or something memorable where you just thought, oh yeah, this is kind of this is working now the world not exactly how you want it, perhaps, because it's never perfect, is it? But you know, is there a sort of turning point for you or a memorable point in your business up to this stage?

SPEAKER_00 35:25

Yeah, I think um I think uh at one stage I I really kind of shied away from what people were coming to me for to help with their kind of confidence online and showing up and building like an online presence. Yeah. And for a while, and I think still a little bit now in my mind, I I say to my um I'm saying to myself, like, well, that isn't like you know, that's not that's not strong enough, like that's not powerful enough that I feel like I can have an impact. Um so I think a big shift for me was when I actually was like, no, I am literally helping people here to get themselves out there, to get in front of the right people, do what they want to do, which in turn allows them to build a life that they want. So on the surface, it might look like helping someone to show up online, but the ripple effect of what that might create is much deeper. So I think for me it was really understanding the impact of my work, the impact my work was having, and not just looking at it on a surface level of helping people market their business or helping people show up online. But it took me a really long time to feel like comfortable with that. There was there was a big kind of like uh uh like reservation around it. I don't know why. Um, so so that was a bit of a point for me where I was like, no, I'm lit I'm leaning into this.

SPEAKER_02 36:54

Oh nice, yeah. That's uh I mean it's a the thing is what you do is it's gonna sound a bit sickly, but it's a really lovely thing that you're that you're trying to do. You know, people will genuinely feel that they've changed, I would imagine, when they've um you know been through whether it's um kind of a course or an ongoing uh an ongoing thing, but once they've got to that point where they're like, oh right, I can actually do this thing now, or I I you know I know what I need to do with with this, that, the other, it's more personal. That's kind of the word I think I was looking to say rather than lovely because that's uh it's nice.

SPEAKER_03 37:23

Oh, it's a lovely one to do.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

But but it is, but it's but it's a lot more personal, you're getting to actually see people change, I suppose, and see differences in in a person, whereas you know, in in most uh freelance businesses there's a it's still essentially you're still working with and seeing differences in people and making a difference, but it's essentially a product at the end of it, you know, you're maybe producing helping them produce their website or do which is still fantastic, but it's a little bit different when you've got that personal element to it, I would imagine.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Yeah, because it it works into other areas of their life as well. So, you know, definitely with the confidence side, you know, if they're feeling more confident in themselves in their business, then their relationships are gonna improve. They're not gonna be as worried about um you know how things are going with the business. They know they're showing up for it, they're doing everything they can. That's gonna make them feel good about themselves, that's gonna then make sure that you know they're they're in their relationships, friends, family, um, whatever it might be, they're happier, um, which in turn affects um things in their life. So yeah, it is I always I love working with people one-to-one because I like really to really find out about that person and and um it's deeper than um just like learning how to market yourself.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

Yeah. Oh, lovely. Lovely. You said it again! I said it again, I know there's gonna be some serious editing going on in this, in this, in this case. I've spent a lot of time editing over the last few uh over the last few weeks with this podcast, and I'd say 99% of it is getting rid of stupid stuff that I'm saying. So the guests are all safe from my editing, mine's all uh yeah, ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

No, it's it's all part of the part of the the realness of it.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

Part of the fun.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

Um so what do you enjoy most, you think, about being a freelancer in general, about running your own business? Because again, we've already touched on elements of it, but is there one main thing that you that you really love?

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Well, it uh this morning I was having a conversation with my partner, and we were going away next week on holiday, and he's like, Oh, I've only got this week to get through, and then it's holiday. And I was like, Oh yeah, I wish I was getting paid to go on holiday, you know, like really kind of like um bitterly. And then he was like, But he he's like, you can do whatever you, you know, you this is the kind of um bargain that you have to the the pros and cons, the you don't have to ask for that time off. You can have that time off however much time you want to have off. Um so selfishly, one of the things I absolutely love about being freelance is I don't have anyone to answer to about holidays. Freelancing because I like to travel, I like to go abroad, see new places, and that used to be the a pain, you know, when you're in a full-time role and everyone's waiting for the holidays to be released so you can book your time off. I mean, how stupid is that? How do we live like that? That we have to but you know, that it it just has to be that way. But so that's one thing I feel very passionate about having control over your over your time and being able to create a a life that with your work that supports each other, it's not living to work, yeah, yeah. It's working to live.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Very nice. That sounds a good quote. Oh, what a quote.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

Um, so yeah, selfishly that's one the the one of the most important bits. Um, and then just like I have days where I'm like, I can't believe that I've met these people and that I get to work with these people, and it it just baffles me that I can have that connection with somebody, even if it's even if it's someone like someone I'm working with at the minute, never met them in person, have only met them on LinkedIn. Um, but to have that that relationship with somebody that I would never have otherwise met if it hadn't have been through um work and the fact that we are able to create those opportunities for ourselves. It's not somebody saying, right, this is your next client that you're working with. We have the power to kind of have autonomy over who we're working with, um, and and that to me is so important because I want to be working with people that are like-minded and that I really kind of enjoy working with.

SPEAKER_02 41:59

Oh, brilliant! So that's it even supports your uh holiday answer even more because it's totally true that I I think that's a factor that I've perhaps um haven't really considered as as much, to be honest. That you're uh that you are in complete control as to as to who you're working with and and making sure that that it's a good fit both both ways as well. Yeah, which is which is so important. But I do think if you just get a chance to work closer on a kind of more human level, don't you, when it's your business and you're finding those people and they're for whatever reason have connected with something that you do? It is rewarding. So I can't believe how fast this gone so fast. It's absolutely flown. I could probably sit and chat with you. I've said the same pretty much to everyone. I'm so nosy, and I really do genuinely enjoy just finding out about all these amazing different roles that people have and the ways you've built your your businesses. So, what's the kind of final piece of kind of practical insight maybe that you'd give to someone just starting off in the early stages of uh building their business?

SPEAKER_00 42:59

Um I think that we often, like I was saying about the acting side, we often shy away from our past experience. Um, various roles that we've had that we might various life experience we've had that we feel might not be relevant at all to what we do now, and you might even hide away from the fact that you are new um and that you're just starting this this thing or this this business, whatever it is. Um, I think be honest. Be honest with people, let them know you're just starting. Do you know anyone that needs this? Do you are you able to um put me in touch with somebody who might need this? Um don't shy away from the fact that you're just starting. People can be much more helpful than we expect them to be. So really lean on that, the fact that you are just getting going. Um, and what was my other what what else did I say before that? What was the question again, Chris? Sorry, what advice would I give to somebody?

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Kind of yeah, what's the kind of practical insight you'd give to someone who's just starting off?

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Oh yeah, yeah. So s so start with something that you've oh about the career and the past experience. That's what I was meaning. Don't shy away from all your experience, it's all super valid. Like, even if you think there's nothing that you've done in that role that has contributed to where you are now, there'll be something you have learnt in that that you can bring to what you do. Um, so even though it might feel like you're just starting and you've not got much experience, you'll I can guarantee you've got lots of experience in other areas that you can bring to it. Um and just get talking, get get your name out there. Family, friends. I think everyone thinks I'm starting something new, I need to build a new network. You've already got a network of people around you. Yes, it might be Auntie Helena or whoever, but who does she know? You know, who does she know? Who do they know? Just get talking about what you do if you are able to, um, because nothing happens outside of a conversation. The conversations need to happen.

SPEAKER_02 45:09

Oh, brilliant. You never know who Auntie Helena's talking to down the bingo.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

Oh, you just don't know, do you?

SPEAKER_02 45:16

But it is a brilliant point. It's such a good answer and a great way to kind of finish the conversation as well. I've really enjoyed having you on the show. Thanks a lot, Zara. I really do appreciate you taking the time to come on and have a chat with me. So just to just to finish up, just where can people sort of contact you? Where can they find out more about you if they're interested in potentially working with you or uh or connecting with you online?

SPEAKER_00 45:37

Yeah. Um, any locals that are in and around Leeds area, obviously the co-work crew, that is once every uh month. Um, so you can find me there online, LinkedIn, Instagram, um and my uh podcast as well, forgetting about um yeah, success behind the scenes, um similar themes to what we've discussed today, and really interesting to find out about what people see as success and what their kind of um version of success looks like. So um that's another way there. But thank you so much, Chris, for inviting me and for speaking to me. It's been it's actually been really helpful and I've really enjoyed it. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 46:23

Oh, brilliant. That's lovely to hear. Anybody who's who's listening, if you haven't checked out Zara's podcast, it is it is really, really excellent and it it would be a it is a good kind of follow-on from this conversation as well. So definitely check it out. Get in touch with Zara and and check out what she's doing. And if you're in that area, if you're in Leeds, make sure that you find out a bit more about Echo Work Crew. We are recording in advance, so when this goes out, um Zara will have already started. Echo Work Crew would have would have run through because I just it's just made me remember that I didn't mention a date or anything or what we're doing. So just make sure you're checking out the latest information from Zara. Like I said, thanks again for joining us, and I'm sure we'll speak again soon. I'm sure we will.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 47:03

Brilliant, thanks a lot, Zara. Bye now.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

Bye.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

Thanks for listening to this week's episode of No Pain No Business. If you're enjoying the show, make sure you follow, subscribe, and share it with anyone else you think might like it too. If you want to get in touch about the show, you can email note at gmail.com. And you can find me at Christian Genesis Lightning.com or connecting me.