Talking About...Counting Crows

On this week's episode, we’re working out whether memories of a time influence your opinion of a band, as we take a look into the repertoire of Counting Crows.

We've also got chat on hidden tracks, the role of producers, Gareth brings his bird knowledge to the table and we find out how good we are at remembering lyrics in the lyric game.

We've also made a Counting Crows 15 track playlist for you to check out and get you in the zone!

Hope you enjoy!

Recorded in October 2025.

Contact: kissthekerb@gmail.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Is that a Boston Red Sox hat? Yeah. I've got a b blue one on them. Have you? I got into my baseball caps a couple of years ago. I had like a mole up here on my head. Right. So I got really conscious of it. So I just got into buying baseball caps just to cover it up. I thought I'll just buy loads of different ones. Yeah. There's a shopping lakeside. Can't remember what it's called now. Is it lids? Yeah, that's the one. Got about ten of them. Anyway, went on a cruise. Halfway through the cruise, my bloody mole disappeared. Just went, just, just disappeared. How would have a lie? How weird. I was just in the mirror and I was just like, I declare, like.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

Joy, it was definitely you met a mole.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

You didn't just fall asleep on the sofa while eating a packet of chocolate buttons again. No, just it was like it was it was good, it was about it was quite big. It was kind of big. It was like there. And you know, we just get start to get cognizant of it. I even went to the doctors, got it checked out because I was like a bit worried about that. Did he taste it? Yeah. No, you're like that. Yeah, and then it just disappeared. But good in some ways. Oh yeah, I'm glad it went. Did you stop wearing the hats after that? Stopped buying them, though. Yeah, I did. I've still got them, but that's my hat story. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

That's a good story, yeah. Were you just leaning over the cruise bowl and it just went yeah, baby?

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Strong bit of wind. Landed on someone else. I found a new target so Canton Crows. So I chose these. You did choose these. I did choose these.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

Now you used to listen to this all the time, didn't you?

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Yeah. Yeah, the first album I used to love. So what what's your what was your memories of Canton Crows like when you watching you listen to them through a window? And did you like get into them at a certain point? When did it come out in 93? Yeah, see, I didn't get him into 93. I the only time I got in, I remember I was at the toothbrush, and then this song came on, obviously being Mr. Jones, and I was just like, This is amazing. And then someone told me that I would have bought the album off of just that. Yeah. What about you? Me.

SPEAKER_03 2:15

Um how old were you in '93, Gareth?

SPEAKER_02 2:17

13.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Oh, so young.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Were it me? Probably when I same when I started going to the brush, it's possibly the first time I heard them. So that would have been like 97. So that was probably after recovering the satellites. Yeah, it would have been, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Yeah, that was 96, wasn't it? Yeah. But was Mr. Jones that big? 93, I don't remember hearing it. It was massive. Was it?

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Yeah, it wasn't the pink toothbrush.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Yeah. He's like one of the staple songs there, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 2:45

It is.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

The album's quite different to the song itself, isn't it? Yeah. The song doesn't fit on it as an album, really. Do you not think? No, it does fit, but if you listen to Mr. Jones, you're expecting more of that on the album. There's not much of it. Yeah, true.

unknown 2:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

But he's probably their most upbeat song.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Definitely on that album.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

So when you brought the album and realised that it it wasn't like Mr. Jones, what did that m do to you?

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Oh, you still I still liked it, yeah. I really liked it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

I think it's a brilliant debut album. Do you? It's weird because when we do this, I don't know if a lot of it is nostalgia. I think a lot I think that plays a very big part in it.

SPEAKER_03 3:23

Does it define a period for you?

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Yeah, possibly. See, I always remember I've got always got an image of just getting stoned in my bedroom, just by myself laying on my bed, listening to Perfect Blue Buildings, always stands out, which is a really depressing song.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

And um it Raining in Bolton, or is it Raining Baltimore? Probably the two most depressing songs on the butt them two just stuck because it probably because I was stoned at the time. But I like them songs because of that memory as well. So I think nostalgia plays a very big part in it.

SPEAKER_03 3:53

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Um REM-ish. They're fans of RM, aren't they? Yeah. Yeah, they do have some songs where they try and I think be a bit RM ish.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

It's interesting how they started as well. Yeah, the Himalayans. Yeah. Did you look up the songs that the Himalayans did?

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Around here.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

Yeah, I know. I didn't know that instead of it's that punk version, isn't it? It's more of a grunge version. It's got it's got a bass line, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 4:18

Yeah. But interesting how they've repackaged a song and put it to stick it onto carried it over. Got away with it. So is that is that not an original song then? Round here. Yeah. I mean they did it. But they did it with another band.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Yeah, because I have heard the original verse, like their version of it, which is more like the Himalayans version. Yeah, I didn't know that's what they were called, but I've heard a faster version done by them. Yeah. Because they've changed a lot, haven't they, as well? They've had a lot of band members over the years, can't yeah, there's been a couple that have been long stays, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 4:49

They've flitted about a bit of different things. Isn't there quite a big band?

SPEAKER_03 4:53

Sort of originals duritz.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

You're thinking of uh Fred Durst from Limbisc.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

But there's uh yeah, there's about seven of them now, isn't there, or something like that? From San Francisco Bay area. What do we think of the name? So we have this conversation we have about band names, and obviously it defines like a sound, doesn't it? What do you think of the the name counting crows? I don't think it's too bad actually. Doesn't give anything away, doesn't sound punkish, doesn't sound rock. I don't think it's too bad actually. No, it's not offensive at all, is it?

SPEAKER_03 5:24

And it's and it's uh derived from a poem, right? Yeah, British one, isn't it? From the nursery rhyme.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Yeah, which is more magpies, isn't it? Well they've changed it to crows, aren't they? But mag magpies are from the crow family. Oh, I know. Yeah. Are they still a murderer of magpies?

SPEAKER_03 5:37

Oh Bilody over here.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

I still think you'll find. Are they a murderer of magpies though? I don't know actually. You'd have to look that up on your um internet machine. Let's Google it. Let's have a look. Uh group of magpies can be called a mischief.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

Yes. Sounds about right.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Yeah, so not yeah. Although they're the same, you say, they're not the same as a group.

SPEAKER_03 5:59

Ain't as good as you think you are, are you? No, they're still from the crow family. I know, I'm just you know. Let's have a look at our magpies.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

I know nature, you go fuck all. Our magpies part of the crow family.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

Don't believe everything you're reading.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Do they like Mr. Jones by the Count and Crows? Yes, they are brother-in-laws to Russell Crow. Yes, they are.

SPEAKER_03 6:28

Wasn't he the brother of um Cheryl Crow? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

No, they are. Yeah, you are. Megpas are part of the Crow family. Thanks for coming. It's been a great place to be. We are very educational as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because I didn't know that. That's that. That's right, yeah. But anyway, so yeah, but so the name we're not we think's okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

We we uh we accept the name. It's not as as offensive as some of the music.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

No. Shall we go to the music? Do we have to? Have we got anything else we want to say before we go to the music? What about the band?

SPEAKER_03 7:03

Yeah. I find it really weird. Uh like I don't see much stuff about them.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

No, I didn't I I think we know much about their formation, and there's not really much that I could find out about it. I always thought they were kind of session musicians that got together, but I don't know if that's I think they're all just previous bands. Just in previous bands and stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

They were spotted by uh Geffen, weren't they? Somebody at Geffen. Yes. And he was like, This is amazing. We must sign this band immediately.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

But you know, they're just Americana, aren't they? And they appeal to the masses. They're not kind of you know out there or doing anything extreme. And to be fair, he writes a really good song, like the melodies and the lyrics. So I think that's that's why they were became so popular.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

I see, I kind of also when I think of Canon Crows as well, I kind of also think of Hootie and the Blowfish. Do you they were kind of that around that same time? I think Hootie and the Blowfish in America especially were massive, weren't they, apparently? I don't think they hit over here that big, did they?

SPEAKER_03 8:09

I can honestly say I don't think I've ever heard of Hootie and the Blowfish.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

I've heard a couple of songs, but I don't think they were very good, but they were massive in America.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

Right, okay. Much bigger than the bigger name, much defensive. Yeah, yeah. That's a shit band. Hootie and the blowfish.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Yeah, that's terrible. But so I think they were bigger than Canon Crows in America, but I think Canon Crows just were better in general, like around the world. I think I don't know. And probably just had more longevity. I think Hootya the Blowfish were just a a moment in time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

And they st they're still going though, right? Or Hootie and the Blowfish. Yeah. Why don't you use your internet machine? Or we can just choose Hootie the Blowfish as our next band to do it.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Fuck God. Do you know the uh the blowfish is part of the crow family as well?

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Yeah. Middle years 2008. That was my middle years as well. I don't know, is the honest answer. Probably. I mean their last album's 2008. Stephen Orkins sitting there. Their last album's 2019, so not too far off. Just half a decade. August and everything after. Their debut. What's your thoughts on it?

SPEAKER_03 9:19

Released on Geffen. Geffen and produced by T Bone Burnett. Oh, is it T Bone Burnett? Yeah. Oh, okay. Who was a guitarist in Bob Dylan's band in the 70s?

SPEAKER_02 9:32

Oh yes, he did play Dylan, yeah. He's played with loads of people there. Has he?

SPEAKER_03 9:36

He did a lot of um he did some stuff on Oh Brother, Where Are Thou, didn't he?

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Yeah, he's yeah, prolific.

SPEAKER_03 9:42

You know you said about uh and this is related to music, you said that they are Americana.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:49

Because I can't put them in a space very easily.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

They're quintessential dad rock, I think you'll find quintessential dad rock is where I'd put them now. It's not where I would have put them back.

SPEAKER_03 10:02

Okay, well at the time, where would you have put them? Um who would you have framed them with?

SPEAKER_02 10:07

Uh probably Hootie in the Blue.

SPEAKER_03 10:10

Yeah, yeah. But but it's interesting though, because to me, Americana is something like Iron and Wine or you know, my morning jacket, or something like that. That's Americana.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

They kind of span vast amounts of artists.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

I think I think in early years, I think it was probably trying to chase REM ish music, maybe bits of it. But where would you put REM? Alternative rock?

SPEAKER_03 10:33

Alternative rock. American indie. I'll go for any of those, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Yeah, yeah. But a lot of people would also call REM dad rock as well. Now, I think obviously they've they changed over the years, you had college and then they people say they sold out and went off in so maybe Ken and Crows did the same.

SPEAKER_03 10:50

But do you think they ever had the edge that REM had?

SPEAKER_01 10:53

No.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

They were quite round like August and everything after, you know, there's there's no edges to it, is it? No, it's a good album, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Yeah, well, started way earlier, didn't they? More around that post-punk time where these guys started in the early 90s. Like 91, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 11:08

Grunge and you know, all of that sort of stuff. Yeah. So I'm just I'm just wondering, like, even though we were chasing REM, they never really I guess they were looking at REM from the out of time years onwards, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Yeah, possibly.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

And is that what m I mean I know you've said you know Mr. James was a big thing, but do you think their smaller similarities with REM sort of got you into them as well?

unknown 11:31

No, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

No, I don't think so. I just I think the first album is very good album. He's got a good voice, and like so some of the songs they do are very well done. So especially when he does like uh just a little piano piece by himself, yeah, they're good. But they can also do, especially now, I think on the second album we get into, I quite liked Angel of the Silences, which is really good rock song. Yeah, but then they just do that middle of the road song too often. That's the problem. They just go down that middle of the road. They still because it's like safe, they just go safe, they've just stayed, tried to stay the same, and time hasn't been too good to them, kind to them. I don't think.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

But I know I we'll probably talk about this a bit more when we when we go through the albums, because do you think that's because of talent?

SPEAKER_01 12:17

And maybe changing band members as well. I think that doesn't help. If you change three or four band members all the time, you're constantly changing.

SPEAKER_03 12:24

But surely those band members are bringing in new, fresh idea or different ideas and how to do things.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Yeah, but yeah, uh yeah, but don't know how influential the original band members were. I think Adam Drewitz as well had some issues in the 90s with fame. I think he struggled, I think he like kind of shot to fame, especially like dating like Jennifer Aliston and all that. Yeah, yeah. I think he kind of struggled in the late 90s, especially.

SPEAKER_03 12:48

I'm not surprised either, because I think before they even released Recovering the Satellites, they spent two years on the road, didn't they?

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

And that's I mean, that's gonna fuck up for anyone, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, I think Recovering the Satellites shows that.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

I think like lyrically on Recovering the Satellites, you listen to it, it kind of shows that kind of rise to fame that you I don't think he was very comfortable with it.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

And what I find interesting is like when you were talking about August and Everything After, you sort of said that he wrote a great song, and I I agree with you, like his lyrics in August and Everything After, they're not in the first person, it's not I mean much. No, it's storytelling, you know. But after that album, it's very much all about him. It's I, it's me, it's yeah, what happened to me and what I did.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

And women and women loves a woman name woman name in a yeah, and Anne Aaron's Anna gets mentioned Lotus Maria. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

He loves women's names in music, doesn't he? Yeah, yeah. And Michelangelo pops up a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

It does. Yeah, it does actually, right.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

Anna Begins, that's a good song, actually. I do like Anna Begins.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Yeah, I think that's probably my favourite off of August 17th. Is it? Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

Yeah. My standout track on that album is Omaha.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yeah, I like that as well. Yeah, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_03 14:04

The accordion. On that album, that track is its most REM-ish track. I think that's maybe why I like it so much.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:12

It's a good album. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Much slower than I remember. Yeah, there's not many fast songs on, yeah. Murdered one's probably one of the faster one rankings.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Ranking, yeah. As debut albums go, yeah, it's gonna be good. It's a solid album. And you would think, oh, this band could go on to be sank. And then second album, three years later. To be fair, I like that as well. I think that's good. Recovering the satellites.

SPEAKER_03 14:41

Terravision Long Piece. And Dashboard Confessional for the emos out there.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Before we get into recovering though, but August and Everything After.

SPEAKER_03 14:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Because that that's the song as well, isn't it? Have you heard the song? No. It's very good. There's like two videos on YouTube of it. One they recorded as well, it's not on the album.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

So do you know on the front cover of the album there's lyrics scrawled? Yeah, yeah. That's actually a song called August and Everything After. Oh, it's yeah. And if you go on YouTube, there's like two versions on there. One they recorded at Air Studios with an orchestra, and one that's a live recording of him on the piano. It's such a good song. Why did they leave it off?

SPEAKER_03 15:18

Do you know why there?

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Don't know. It's never been recorded. Like properly or released. I didn't know that, no. It mentions Maria again. Does it? Yeah. But yeah, pick it up on YouTube. Yeah, it's good. Especially just the piano version live. Do you think that should have been on the album? Um maybe, but it's kind of created this kind of uh it's been this like long mystery around this song, you know, that's everyone knows is out there but never really gets played. And yeah, it's a it's a really good piece of work.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

That's good facts.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Fact.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

What was your thoughts on Recovering the Satellites? Um overall, I would say it was a bit too self-indulgent and whiny for me.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

I think it's a little too long. They should take two tracks off it, and I think it'd been a really good album. I like it, but it's 14 tracks if I'm right, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 16:04

It is, but but most of their albums are around an hour and five minutes. I mean, they are the opposite of the Beach Boys.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Yeah, but I thought it was a good again. If we're going in time, they've just done uh August Everything After, second album comes out, this comes out, I'll be like, oh, this is a good second album. So that could always be the difficult one, isn't it? It's the famous second album. Yeah. And it's a bit and it's they're going down a different route, I think. It's rocky after this week, definitely, isn't it? Like I said, I really like Angels of the Silences. That's a really good rock song.

SPEAKER_03 16:35

But I have starred that one actually, yeah. That was that's the standout of album.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Daylight fading is pretty much an REM song. Have you seen me lately again? I like that. That's a good rock song. There's just I've just think two songs too much on this album. If they'd have got rid of two, what two? Yeah, what two. Um I I've I've never really liked Children in Bloom. I never really liked that one.

SPEAKER_03 16:56

Can you pull up the opening lyrics to Children in Bloom? Because on your internet machine.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Or if I've picked this Lee's lyrics as my thing and you've ruined it. We both get a point. Children in bloom cooking in the sun. What the fuck does that mean? Cooking kids, in it. Yeah. But then the line after it. Waiting for a room of our own. Leave my sister alone. She don't deserve this. She's a flower, and I'm a flower, and we are all alone. It's a bit self-indulgent. Yeah, it may be.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

And and I think that's the the issue I had with this album, whereas the other album, the first album was it was really good, really great storytelling.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yeah, I think that you're right. I think the lyrics do change. I think this might have been just him, isn't it? I think maybe he just got a bit. And I don't know if people coming out of the band, I'm I don't know that much about them, whether they were falling out, maybe they could see he was up his own ass a little bit. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

Do you get that impression? Have you watched interviews with him or anything like that?

SPEAKER_01 17:55

I have seen one recently, well, a couple of years ago. I think he did like a solo album, I say. And um he was he did say that he struggled with mental health. Right a lot. So he has been through a lot. So I think he probably wasn't the best person to be around.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

I think on recovering as well, they recorded in like a mansion in LA and they lived there as well while they were recording it.

SPEAKER_03 18:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

And I think they just like the whole onslaught of the fame from balls and everything after. That's where it all came from, I think. But I like it. I mean, if I don't think if you don't dive into the lyrics too much, I think I like the the more rockiness of it. And uh yeah, I like the slower song. Yeah, I think it's good. It's different to August and everything after.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

So you were still with them at this stage?

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I liked some I liked some still. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:43

I mean, because I never went any further than August or everything after.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

I bought albums up to I think it's Saturday night, Sunday mornings. That was the last one I bought.

SPEAKER_03 18:51

Oh, you went deep. And then I was just ugh, they're not very good.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

They're not very good. I did this desert life. I remember buying this desert life when it came out.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

No, I bought that this is and hard candy, I bought that as well.

SPEAKER_02 19:05

Okay, so this desert life. I like it because it reminds me of a time I think I remember buying the boy of the day ago. And I think it's got some good songs on there.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Revisiting it, uh yeah, hanging around's quite good. Mrs. Potter's other buy is good way too long though. I like the fact that it's a good song, it's a good beat in that, but I think it the fact that it doesn't really change though, two minutes knocked off, and I think it'd have been really good. And I do like Amy hit the atmosphere as well. I like that. Like the end of that when it really starts when it starts to get all the different vocals and that. Um, it starts to go a bit off track then a little bit. But well, four days is good.

SPEAKER_03 19:40

Four days was good. It's alright, it's a bit REM ish, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Did mine high life as well? No, colourblinds no colourblinds are big here. That was from my film.

SPEAKER_03 19:50

Well, yeah, what is that? Uh from Cruel Intentions.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

That's it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:56

And was this before or after they did the some music for Shrek before?

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Yeah, Shrek's about 2000s. Right, okay. Yeah, that's the accidental love song, isn't it? That I think they didn't they get an Oscar nomination for that or something.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

Yeah. Terrible that song. Um, do you think he was like, Yes, guys? You never guess what? We've got Shrek.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Yeah. But not even, not even like they've just taken one of their songs. I think they've done a song for it. Was it called Uh August and Everything After? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:25

It's called This Desert Life. So that front cover with a goldfish.

SPEAKER_04 20:31

Yeah, shit, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 20:33

That's um you know who did that? No. Guy called Dave McKean. Okay. Any bells?

SPEAKER_02 20:38

No. Dave McKean.

SPEAKER_03 20:40

So he did all he did a lot of the um illustration for Neil Gaiman's novels. Oh, really? Yeah, and it's based on a Neil Gaiman short novel about the day my goldfish went missing or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

Yeah, it's a shit front cover.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

It's hard to please.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

It's not great. I don't like it. It's not Beach Boys territory though, is it? It's not for four men outside of children the park.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Just loitering. I'm milking a goat. So at this point, this does it like third album. I'm still in. I'm like, out of three, I'm probably like this is the weakest, but kids things is quite Rolling Stones-ish, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 21:16

I think that was a hidden track.

SPEAKER_03 21:17

Was it a hidden track?

SPEAKER_02 21:18

On the CD, that was a hidden track. You had to wait like I don't know, 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Do you remember them hidden tracks? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. The one on Nevermind always getting me. That's about 20 minutes in, and then it just goes, does it? Yeah. It's not like that's fun. Especially after um something came to Way, which pretty much sends you to sleep, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 21:40

And then you wait twenty minutes, you go drift off, and then he's bloody I used to like a hidden track. Yeah, you've got that with CD, didn't you? Yeah. You get a cassette, it'd be like a shit load of tape.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

It's interesting they got Campervan, a guy actually from Campervan Beethoven. Oh really? To produce this, along with a guy who actually produced Campervan Beethoven Album. Doubled up. Yeah, double up, doubled up. A guy called David Lowrief, who was from Camper Van Beethoven and Dennis Herring.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

And he did the likes of Ben Fold's Hives. Yeah. Who remembers Cracker?

SPEAKER_02 22:15

The TV show, Robbie Coltrane. Or the song.

SPEAKER_03 22:18

The song Low.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Low. It's called Low, that's it. I used to play that up at um Club Art a lot.

SPEAKER_03 22:25

Yeah. And he also um produced uh Elvis Costello. Yeah. Nice. And just on the producing side, I'm I'm I'm gonna ask you, Gareth, would you bring in a producer to because you've heard his previous stuff and you're like, I want to sound a bit like that, or are you bringing them in to create something unique? Do you think what's what's the point of a producer?

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Surely you want to be unique, don't you? But I suppose they're always gonna bring something to the table.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Yeah, I suppose it depends where there's probably certain producers who do very similar stuff on all albums, but then if you get someone like Rick Rubin who does all different kinds of music, no, I don't know if he's a great producer. I think he just sits there and meditates, I don't know. But um about magpies. About magpies, yeah. Part of the crow family. Um yeah, I don't know. I suppose it depends on the band, doesn't it? I expect Counting Crows went, I want someone to make us sound like exactly how we sounded before.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Yeah, do you think they're always chasing that first album? Maybe, yeah, I don't know. Well I say that, but I don't ever sound anything like it after that.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

I think I think they're chasing not the first album, but they're chasing something new that would kind of give them what the first album did, but they they kind of miss every time.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

But you like recovering the satellites and you like yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Recovering the satellites was a bit heavier, wasn't it? It was a bit more rocky, I suppose, in places.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

Would you say rocky or more there's a there's a bit more of a darkness than a than a rockier film? It just feels a bit there's clouds as opposed to the rainbow of August and everything after. Whereas recovering the satellites just feels a bit you're in the middle of the fucking hell, I better get inside. Oh, is the washing still out there? I'll better bring it in.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

Definitely gonna rain.

SPEAKER_03 24:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

And this there's a life is sunny again.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

It was a bit more sunny, wasn't it? It's a bit more sunny, it's a bit more bit more upbeat. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

So then we've got hard candy then. Hard candy. I'm tapping out at this point. Oh yeah, no, so I'm still I'm still I'm still in, I'm still in. I'm still in. And I don't Do you know what? There's some okay songs on this one.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

I didn't mind it.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

It's not bad actually, but um I didn't mind this.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

I quite liked it. I think for me by this time, when was it 2002? Yeah, 2002. I think I'd kind of I think well by this point, like the strokes, the white stripes have all kind of made it onto the scene, and they're just kind of again this one I'd be pushed out.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Just two songs too much. I think if they had cut two songs off it, I think I would have quite liked it a lot.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

It's a weird one, isn't it? Because at the same time that actually this is probably I I didn't mind this album. At the same time, I do feel that they should be cancelled.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Was it the cover of Beak Yellow Taxi?

SPEAKER_03 25:12

Fuck me. That is absolutely hideous. When I first heard that, with unfortunately for some reason they got Vanessa Colton to come in and do some backing vocals, who barely gets used. It's probably going out of her, wasn't he? Oh I just felt sorry for her. She's probably sitting there going, What the fuck am I doing? And it is just really, really, really atrocious. Was it actually was it on the album? Yeah, it was.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

It's um special, it's on the like Jirax version. I don't think it's on the original one.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

No, it is on the original one. Are you sure you haven't blocked it out? Yeah, maybe. The absolute pain.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

Scratched it off the CD.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

And so for that reason, Hard Candy shall forever be erased from memories.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

I think this is the point when they started to maybe like this accidental, accidentally in love, whatever is the Shrek song. It's all around this time, isn't it? So I think they might have this is when the bad choices might have started kicking. Maybe this is when the drugs started kicking or he was talking about.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

There are some good tracks on there though. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

I really liked Hard Candy a lot of the songs I like Miami. Uh I think it's black and blue as well, right?

SPEAKER_03 26:25

New Frontier was good. Yeah. A bit B52's.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Yeah, it's got a little funky uh beats in it.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

Yeah. I did I I I didn't mind this album actually. I think why I like this album was because actually this was the first timing since August and everything after, where they got a bit in inventive. They had different instrumentation, it wasn't just the standard acoustic guitar, you know, and all that sort of stuff. They had a couple of people on there, I think Cheryl Crow's on there, isn't she? Yeah. On Hard Candy, is it? Or American Girls?

SPEAKER_01 26:59

American Girls, I think it is. Do you think it's because she's got Crow in her name again, though? He just wanted to get Russell Crowe.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

Russell Crowe, Cheryl Crow. But the other Crows? Magpies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:09

But he's quite possessive about his singing. Like there's barely anybody else who sings anywhere near it. There's no there's not a lot of harmonies, are there?

SPEAKER_01 27:18

No, there's not, is there? Not really much backing vocals, is there? No.

SPEAKER_03 27:21

No, not at all, I don't think. Yeah. And uh so the next one, Phil.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

Is this where you gave up?

SPEAKER_01 27:27

No, no, no, I bought this one. You bought this one, and then this was the last one I bought. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

But this was that this was at the point where you said, enough's enough. Enough's enough.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Yeah, so this was about six years, they had a big old gap, didn't they? Yeah, so it's 2008. So I think that might have been just I might have been oh, I haven't heard them in a while. See what they come back with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think this was meant to be so called Saturday night, Sunday morning. So I think the first half of the album's gonna be meant to be quite rocky, and the second half quite mellow. Right, okay. I I don't know, I just didn't come across like that. And yeah, it's just not meant I didn't really like this at all. 1492, I don't I don't I quite like that. Yeah, I didn't mind that one. I think that was about it. That's the opener. I think that was about it. Yeah, and lost that it just became a bit samey, didn't it?

SPEAKER_03 28:14

What did you think of it, Gareth?

SPEAKER_02 28:16

I've not got much to say about it. I think I gave up on it. Okay. Um I remember the opening track being alright. Yeah, but I don't know, I think by this point everything I listened to just sounded the same. Yeah, I think you know I think it very much was, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 28:34

I think the highlights for me are when they're not the same, and that is few and far between. I quite liked Le Ballet d'Or, because that was different, it wasn't what they would normally do. If they try, they've clearly got some talent.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Yeah, I think you know, as a as a group of musicians, they're very talented, and I think he's obviously a talented songwriter.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

He's got a he's got a song on here called When I Dream of Michelangelo, which is one of his lyrics in Angels of the Silences. And he says I dream of Michelangelo, or it might have even been Mr. Jones, he says that as well, doesn't he? He just seems to like repeat some lyrics, he's got phrases, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:10

Um I quite like Cowboys as well, by the way, on this album. Cowboys is six tracks in.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

I didn't get six tracks in.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Yeah, see that this is the last album where I I must admit, after this, they just had start to sound like a session band to me. Like there's nothing interesting to them anymore. But do you do you think it happened as late as that? Because I was saying it happened earlier. In hindsight, looking back, I think there was signs of it creeping in, but they just had little bits where they could pull it out of the bag, have a good song here and there, you know. That's it. But I don't even think they had that towards the end. I was listening to somewhere under Wonderland the other day. That Palisaders Park, is it the first one? Oh yeah. I didn't mind Palisaders Park. No, that one was okay because I had a bit of But it was eight minutes. Yeah, again, way too long. But Earthquake Driver, what was and then dislocation. I lit yeah, I got I turned it off after that. I just couldn't.

SPEAKER_03 30:07

You didn't get to God of Ocean Tides. Is that what did you say?

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Yeah, that no, I did get to that one. And then I got Scarecrow. No, actually, I quite like Scarecrow. I got Elvis went to Hollywood, that's when I turned it off.

SPEAKER_03 30:17

So I take it, I take it you guys haven't you haven't gone into the um covers album?

SPEAKER_01 30:23

No, I didn't even look at it. I haven't even listened to the latest one. This it was released this year as well, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. But a mirror called the complete suites. I mean I'll give them this, they've only got nine tracks on it, so they've shortened the albums. Well, do you know what it do you know what it is? Is it covers again?

SPEAKER_03 30:38

No, so they released an EP called um what was it called? It was I think it was called Butter Miracle.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

But a miracle thing.

SPEAKER_03 30:46

Uh something one last year or something like that. Something one or something like that. And then they were going to do a second EP, and it was gonna be like a you know, and then I thought, well, I think they just thought fuck it. And then just stuck the first EP in with this new stuff, four new tracks, and just released it as an album. Was it any good? Um Boxcars was a good track. Under the Aurora, that was a bit Benfolds. I don't mind Benfolds. Good harmonies actually on elevator boots. There was some alright stuff on there. I I wasn't offended by it.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

What one's this? Oh, somewhere under one land right. No, but a miracle completely completely. I just saw they did a cover of um Graham Parsons' return of the grievous angel and that uh Yeah, terrible. Yeah, I just listened to the first two seconds and turned it.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

And it's just like no, and I think that's the trouble, isn't it? They can't judge a track, they can't get the sense of it, they just have to turn it into what they know how to turn it into. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Yeah, yeah. It feels like there's no kind of respect for what the song was. No, it's just like let's do it, let's do it how we we would do it. No, it's it's so bizarre. Anyway, they're playing Wembley Rain on the first November. Anyone fancy it? Should we go?

SPEAKER_01 32:03

I saw him I saw him about three years ago. Did you? Yeah, uh Hammersmith Apollo. And uh to be fair, they were bizarre choice of songs to play. Really? It's just one of them nights where you know you just think like they were purposely avoiding all the good songs everyone wanted to hear.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

I think I must have I think I saw them in '97, '98, they were supporting Bob Dylan. I think I saw Wembley supporting Bob Dylan.

SPEAKER_03 32:26

That's what I don't understand. People must have liked them. They did, of course they did. Other musicians must have liked them as well.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

They've got talent, and they I just think they've maybe ruined it a little bit. They've just gone on too long.

SPEAKER_04 32:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

If they would have quit around, I don't know, this Desert Life, even the hard candy, four albums, I think you'd go, yeah, decent band.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

I reckon if he had kept his dreadlocks, they would have been fine.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Yeah, I think they were his power one, wouldn't he?

SPEAKER_03 32:51

It's a bit like um what's it called, Samson and Delilah.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

But yeah, no, I think you're right. As soon as he lost the old dreads, that's it, he went. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

Can I can I ask you like uh what do you think of his voice? Are you asking?

SPEAKER_01 33:02

I think it suits I think it suits a certain style. Yeah. I don't think he can do the heavy songs. I think he's better to like a ballad.

SPEAKER_03 33:10

Because I found like when you listen when I listened back to August and everything after, I really love the voice, I really love the tone of it. But then after that, when I listen to the albums, I just find half a problem with the songs is his voice. Yeah. I don't think he's got a bad voice. He can sing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Because a lot of it, I think a lot of he tries to cram a lot of words into the harmony. He's like, he like says way too many words sometimes. It's like he's kind of rapping, he's like rapping kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 33:38

Like he's not slam poetry, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

He's just puts too many words into a sentence. I'm just like, didn't need to do that.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

It does feel very much about him and his songwriting, as opposed to an overall musical.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

Yeah, I think I saw an interview with um him, I think it was on uh Rick Biato. Have you ever seen any of his stuff? He's like he's a uh producer and musician. And he was saying some of the songs, he's like obviously he writes them on the piano, and he'll go into the studio and he'll like I'll have to play the piano on it because even though he's got like a really good piano player, he's like, It doesn't sound right unless I'm playing the piano. So I think he's a bit. Yeah, so I mean I can imagine very much kind of probably his way. So I I can imagine if he said this song's gonna be 25 minutes, they'd just have to go, alright.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

It sounds like we were being down on Canon Crows.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

No, I just think they just lost their way. There were there's a good band there, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:34

I don't know, they have a very nostalgic place in my heart anyway.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

Yeah, I think that's it. That'll always be like August and Everything, I'll always be. I think I think it's a great debut album, always be out there for me. I'll always listen to it.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

Do you think the albums after August and Everything after still hold the same sort of feelings for you? Or do you think after listening to them again you're like, oh, I'm not sure about this one now? Do you think your view on those albums have changed?

SPEAKER_02 35:01

I think it's Desert Life I got I liked a bit more actually this time around. Right, okay. I think those first three albums were always I will always revisit them.

SPEAKER_03 35:10

Be a part of you.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

Yeah, I I enjoy them and I think they're good albums. But beyond that, it's kind of disappeared for me, I suppose. But I think that's because you know it those first three albums remind me of a time, and especially like the third one reminds me, you know, I can remember when I bought the third album, so it's kind of So where did you buy the third album? Uh Al Price at Waterloo Station. Did you?

SPEAKER_03 35:30

What was happening at Waterloo Station?

SPEAKER_02 35:32

Uh it's when I was at uni for 10 weeks.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

And um where was that? That was Raw Holloway. Raw Holloway, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

And Hannah had come up and I'd taken her back to Fentro Street and on the way back to uni, I stopped at Al Price at Waterloo and I bought This Desert Life and the second Snicker Pim salvum.

SPEAKER_03 35:49

Oh really?

SPEAKER_02 35:50

Yeah, I just think you know, it's just happy times, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 35:53

Happy times.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:54

Is that the same for you as well, Phil?

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Yeah. It had just been the beginning of the brush era and that, and just everything was good then, wasn't it? Yeah, that's that's in and that's what I get to say. Is it nostalgia that plays a big part in this? I think it is a lyrics game. So we're ready for lyrics game. We're gonna guess whether the lyrics are true lyrics written by Adam Joritz.

SPEAKER_03 36:24

You do look like a grandad sitting there, it's quite funny.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Or whether they are fake lyrics made up by AI Joritz. No just went. I thought that one worked well. It did, and the way you said it and looked up, I did like I did like that.

SPEAKER_03 36:42

I'm looking for approval now every week.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Okay. This one could be difficult.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

I don't think it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

There's a lot of angels and fucking Maria again. Are we ready? Coloured rubbers and a bedroom set. I wouldn't know if it hit me. You take a little step and then it feels like love. I think I'd better get a little of it in me. Am I first?

SPEAKER_03 37:08

I think you go first this time, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Okay, AI Jurits.

SPEAKER_02 37:12

AI Juritz.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

From the song Sundays. Sundays off what album, do you know? Uh that was Saturday nights, Sunday mornings, I think, wasn't it? I think. Right, Billy? Drove up to Hillside Manor sometime after 2 a.m. and talked a little while about the year. I guess the winter makes you laugh a little slower, makes you talk a little lower.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

Druits. What one's this? AI Druids.

SPEAKER_03 37:40

No, I just don't know how to say his surname.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

AI or Adam Druits? Adam. Adam Jewits. Yeah, Adam Druits, long December. It is, yeah, long December.

SPEAKER_03 37:50

Well you don't get a bonus point. You get fuck all for the song title, apart from smugness. You're allowed to smugness. Why am I even here? Idiot.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

I saw Emily leaning by the corner cafe, her hair tied back with the wind in her face, and I thought about leaving, but I stayed in my chair, counting the cracks in the sidewalk there. Adam Juritz. Yeah, it sounds like him. Well, it does because it was written by AI Juritz. Doing its job. I told it one, right?

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Fuck you, Adam Druits. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:29

A I A Druits. And really?

SPEAKER_01 38:33

Yes. Sorry, sir. You sure? Yes, sir. You sound like he's gonna talk over me. I'm sorry. And I swear I can see you on Charles Street tonight in the glow of a jukebox, in the flickering light, but the truth's just a ghost that won't ever explain why I'm dro drowning again in the Baltimore rain.

SPEAKER_03 38:52

That is Adam Duritz.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Adam Duritz.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

Adam Duritz, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:58

It was AI Duritz.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Oh man.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

This is It's the Baltimore thing.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

AI has done a good job tonight, isn't it? It has. So what's the score? One all. Let's go one more, then yeah. Well, I woke up mid-afternoon because that's when it all hurts the most. I dream I never know anyone at a party, and I'm always the host.

SPEAKER_03 39:22

It's your turn.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

Oh, is it?

SPEAKER_03 39:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

Adam Juritz. Gone in. Adam Juritz, Mrs. Potter. You geek.

SPEAKER_03 39:39

Well done. Well done, guys. Well done.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

Anyway, so albums, shall we? Well, we're all just gonna name our eighth one or seventh one, whatever, six. Oh, we can do it.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

Yeah, shall we do it one at a time?

SPEAKER_01 39:57

Okay. Go on then. That's a miracle of complete suites.

SPEAKER_03 40:00

Seven. Okay. Recovering satellites. Really? A seven. Yeah. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

Anything that's not always and everything after recovering satellites, or this doesn't like Garasha.

SPEAKER_03 40:14

He's down.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

I'll put the latest one there because it's bound to be the worst.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

Uh and then I'm going somewhere under Wonderland. I'm basically going in reverse order because that is pretty much it. It's they peaked at their debut for me.

SPEAKER_03 40:29

Okay. Um Saturday night, Sunday mornings at six. Yeah. And then five, somewhere under Wonderland. Yep. Four, butter, miracle, the complete work. Top three. Here we go. Uh top three, this desert life. Two hard candy, and then number one, August and everything after.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

Come feel top three.

SPEAKER_01 40:49

Uh August, everything after, definitely one. Recovering the satellites two. It would be a mix up between Desert Life and Hard Candy for three. Probably this Desert Life, I'd say, yeah. Okay. It's pretty much in order.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

I think they peaked at their debut.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

I would 100% agree with that. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do top. You would just you fucking switched off. You're like, oh I don't know. Well, do you top three? Come on.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

List that's at life, number three. Yep. All central number two. Craven satellite number one. Ooh.

SPEAKER_03 41:26

Maverick.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

Maverick.

SPEAKER_03 41:29

Songs. Do you want to do like a top couple? Yeah, top five. I could do probably five, I reckon. Oh, let's do five.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

I don't know in what order. I don't know what order. Um definitely Mr. Jones. Anna Begins. Angel of the Silences. I'll probably go Amy Hit the Atmosphere. And then Have You Seen Me Lately, I reckon as well. Yeah. That'd be my the top five in no particular order.

SPEAKER_03 41:52

I went John Appleseed, Lilament, Um Box Cars, Angels of Silence, Anna Begins, and then my top track was Omaha. Oh yeah, Omaha probably as well, actually.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

I do like that.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

I'll give you three in no particular order, one off each album. Murder of One, uh, Mrs. Potter's Lullaby, and I'm gonna go Catapult. Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

Yeah, that's a good one. What's our end thoughts on Canon Cries?

SPEAKER_03 42:19

Uh stuck around for too long. Yeah, I think so. Seven albums too long. Harmless fun. Harmless fun, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

There was potential there. Just yeah, great.

SPEAKER_03 42:31

Until next time. Till next time, when we shall learn more about birds. With Mr. Gareth Norman. That's right. Alright, catch you there. This has been uh Kiss a Curb production produced by Barry at Backwater Channel Studios. Music by Ben Bailey. Talking about is presented by Gareth Norman, James Gentle, and Philip Reynolds.