Holding It Together When Everything Feels Unsteady - When you're carrying more than people can see

Episode Summary

There are seasons where life doesn’t completely fall apart…
but it doesn’t feel steady either.

You’re still showing up.
Still doing what needs to be done.
But underneath it all, something feels off—uncertain, heavy, hard to name.

In this episode, Laura sits down with Kurt Bush, a trauma-informed coach and former pastor, to explore what it really looks like to “hold it together” when things feel unsteady on the inside.

Together, they talk about the internal weight we carry, the parts of ourselves we don’t always understand, and the quiet tension between faith and real life.

This isn’t a conversation about fixing everything.

It’s about noticing what’s there…
and remembering you’re not the only one carrying it. 

If This Episode Feels Close to Home

If you’ve ever felt like:

• You’re holding more than anyone realizes 
• You don’t quite feel like yourself anymore 
• You’re doing your best… but it still feels heavy 

This conversation is for you. 

In This Episode, We Explore

• What “holding it together” really looks like in everyday life 
• The internal experiences we often don’t talk about 
• Why feeling unsteady doesn’t mean you’re failing 
• How faith can feel complicated in hard seasons 

A gentler way to begin noticing what you’re carrying 

About Kurt

Kurt Bush is a trauma-informed coach, certified Internal Family Systems practitioner, and co-founder of Brimstone Coaching Group.

With a background in both pastoral ministry and leadership, Kurt understands what it feels like to carry responsibility on the outside while navigating something very different on the inside.

Through his work, he helps people gently explore what’s happening beneath the surface—so they can move toward greater clarity, wholeness, and a more honest way of living and leading.

Connect with Kurt

If something in today’s conversation resonated with you and you’re curious about exploring this kind of work a little more, you can learn more here:

🔗 https://www.brimstonecoachinggroup.com/1-1coaching

Take it at your own pace… only if and when it feels right for you.

Counter Pause

Before you move on with your day…

What feels unsteady for you right now?

You don’t have to fix it.
 You don’t have to figure it out.

Just notice…
 and take one slow breath there.

Breath Prayer

Breathe in: I am held…

Breathe out: Even here.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:02

Welcome to At the Counter with the Baking Pastor. I'm Laura. Pull up a chair. There's no rush here. This season we're sitting with the hard days. The ones that don't resolve quickly. The ones that change us in ways we we didn't ask for. Here at the counter, nothing needs to be fixed. You don't have to have the right words. You don't have to have it all figured out. You can just come as you are and stay a while.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

This is hard days at the counter.

SPEAKER_04 0:48

Today we are making space for a conversation that many of us are quietly living through, even if we don't have the words for it. Those seasons where everything feels just a little unsteady, and yet somehow we're still showing up, still holding things together, still carrying what needs to be carried. And today, wherever you are, whether you're driving, folding laundry, chasing kiddos, or sitting with a cup of coffee or tea, or just trying to make it through the next hour. I'm glad you're here. Joining me today at the counter is Kurt Bush, a trauma-informed coach who is certified with Internal Family Systems Practitioner and a co-founder of Brimstone Coaching Group. With a background in pastoral members ministry and leadership, Kurt understands what it feels like to carry responsibility on the outside while navigating something very different on the inside. Having walked through his own seasons of self-doubt and internal tension, he can now help others gently explore what's happening beneath the surface so that they can move towards greater clarity and wholeness and a more honest way of living and leading. Today we're not talking about fixing everything. We're talking about what it looks like to keep showing up, even when things feel unsteady. Welcome, Kurt.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Hey, thanks, Laura. Thanks for having me. It's good to be here.

SPEAKER_04 2:23

So, Kurt, as we dive in, can you share about a season when things felt unsteady for you?

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Just one, Laura.

SPEAKER_03 2:33

Top two.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

Yeah, yeah. So for sure. I mean, I I think there's a couple I could go to. I I think what I would say is I I went to seminary late in life. Went to seminary in my 30s, second career, had a successful career that I loved, working with people that I loved, and God said, Hey, why don't you go to seminary? I was like, nah, I don't want to. Uh, I think what what was true is I I went to get my MDF late in life. I did not have a bachelor's degree, did not have an undergrad degree, did not finish an undergrad degree. That's a long story how I got into seminary. Thanks be to God. But I found myself in this situation with other people that I deemed as academic and smarter than me. And what I ended up with was every paper that I would submit, I would hover over the submit button. It was an online course. I would hover over the submit button and have this fear that kept my finger from clicking it because I would just have this fear that I'd be found out, fear that I'd be found out as an imposter, fear that every paper would be the end, that that the house of cards of like whether I belong or not was just one click away from falling apart. Honestly, that that was that was the reality for a couple semesters of seminary until I had a good friend help me name it and realize like this is just not it's not sustainable. It's not sustainable for a productive and fruitful career in ministry, but it's also not sustainable for my life or for the ways that I show up in that ministry, but also in the ways I show up at at home and the places I live, work, and play.

SPEAKER_04 4:04

I I can appreciate in MDiv later in life. I I did the same thing, only when God said, I want you to go. It was actually my fourth degree. And I was like, Really?

SPEAKER_01 4:19

More?

SPEAKER_04 4:20

I thought a doctorate meant I was done. He's like, Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Yeah. Uh huh.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

So, in reality, what does holding it together actually look like?

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Yeah, that's a great question, Laura. I don't know. I I mean, I I think everybody would answer that differently. Here's how I answer that. I think in seasons where I felt like I had to hold it together, it meant for me that I had to give the appearance of strong leadership, give the appearance of having all the answers, give the appearance that I knew where we were going. You know, maybe even as a church, it meant like I had to give the impression that I that I was put together, right? When in reality, like I wasn't. Honestly, I don't know that any of us are. You know, I mean, I think that's, you know, as a tinge, and I think that's the beauty of of being a disciple of Jesus is I don't know that we ever have it together. But yeah, I think for me, put uh, you know, having it together being put together meant giving an appearance of something that was different than my actual lived internal experience, which is exhausting, right?

SPEAKER_04 5:21

So what was going on on the inside while all that other stuff was on the outside?

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Yeah, I I mean, yeah, my mental model of leadership has changed so much over the last decade. But my first call out of seminary, I was an associate pastor. I had a lead pastor, and I don't mean to throw anybody under the bus. That's not my intent, but I had a lead pastor who would say that you just can't let people see you bleed. Uh and I remember thinking in the moment, like as a as a new pastor, I certainly wasn't new to leadership, but but I was new to uh pastoral leadership. I remember thinking, like, that just doesn't sound right. And I I resisted it a little bit, but there was a part of me that, you know, like, hey, this is the system I'm in. I'm probably gonna try to understand it a little bit. And it did. It looked on the outside like assuredness. It looked like confidence. But on the inside, it was like like mass panic of like, what the heck am I doing? I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know where I'm going. It looked like fear of being found out, is what it looked like on the on the uh on the inside, right?

SPEAKER_04 6:26

You know, there's just something about hearing that that makes you realize that you're not the only one carrying that. How many people have that FOMO? And maybe, you know, that's why for some people it it feels so confusing, or I've had people say it feels heavy or hard to explain, but that actually makes, you know, way more sense when you look at it later. And, you know, I think people aren't so far off when they, you know, when they're telling themselves that. So was there a moment where you noticed that your faith felt harder to access?

SPEAKER_02 7:02

Uh yeah, well, later, later, yes. So I'm not sure this is super connected to my sort of like external, internal tensions. Um, I yeah, I certainly there there there was a point. Um, my family and I, we we moved across the state that we lived in to take on a role that was really hard. And and frankly, Laura, what I would tell you is that um the timing of it with a pandemic in 2020, um I I was angry at God. I didn't like the place we were, I didn't like what we were doing, I didn't like how hard it was. You know, like all that stuff was pretty real. I didn't want to be here. You know, if if I'm honest with a fellow colleague here, Laura, and because you know, it's just you and I in the room, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:49

Yeah, for now.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

For now, yeah. You know, this was the first time in my life that I experienced a feeling of God, we followed what what we discerned was your leading, and like this is hard, this is it's not good, right? Like in terms of how we measure, we it was so hard. The area we lived in, we didn't love the area, we missed so much about where we came, you know, where we left behind. Um, yeah, it was pretty hard to access faith. It was pretty hard to access the promises of scripture and the promises of God. It was it was hard, it was a hard season for sure.

SPEAKER_04 8:25

Was it like an instant shift for you or was it a gradual shift?

SPEAKER_02 8:30

Into that, into that moment or out of that moment.

SPEAKER_04 8:33

Either.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Yeah, in yeah, into it. It's hard to say into it because I I took a long time to like allow myself to feel it and name it, right? Because I think shame does something in us where you know, like I might be feeling that inside that I'm angry or I don't want to be where God led me, you know. And there's there's something in me that felt some shame about feeling it, you know. A good pastor wouldn't feel this way. A good pastor wouldn't be angry at God, a good pastor wouldn't dislike the place God sent them. I know now that that's not true. Like that's shame. That's not truth. That's shame. So so I don't know how gradual it was getting in, if I'm honest. I just know I spent a lot of time not trying to, you know, trying to not feel it and not admit it. I think once that admission happened, it was a long gradual way out of that. One of my best friends, he was my lead pastor, uh, he was my supervisor, I would say mentor on some level, helped me understand the idea of like feeling these things through and naming laments to God, honestly, um, and not trying to stifle them or get rid of those feelings. Um, and I'll never forget what he said. He he said, like, feeling these things is like going through a tunnel in a car. There's only one way out of the tunnel, right? If you turn around and go out of the tunnel, you still have to go through that tunnel. And it just puts you back at zero. And that word picture helped me get through a ton of that. I think what I would name, Laura, is, and you can stop me if you want me to, if you want to, but I think what I would name is for a decade, you know, I would pastor and tell people, God is our comforter. God is your comforter. And I think what's true is it wasn't until that moment that I actually needed a comforter. You know, I mean, we live in the, I live in the Midwest, we live in the U.S. Western culture, it's pretty easy to not need a comforter. So I learned in that moment, that gradual shift out of that built my faith in a way that said, like, God showed up in a way that I don't know that I've ever needed God to show up. Like I needed comforting in a way that I never had before. So, you know, I was able to see God show up and notice God showing up in real tangible ways that that I just hadn't experienced before. And that was that was the gift of that season.

SPEAKER_04 10:42

I am so glad you mentioned shame because I see the enemy use shame against everyone. And, you know, when someone says, you know, someone who was a pastor felt it. I mean, I can say I had no, they they heard your point. And it I think that's gonna be helpful. So for someone who's listening who may feel like they're barely holding it together, what would you want them to know?

SPEAKER_02 11:08

You're not alone, and it's okay. I work with clients on these issues every day. Just a couple weeks ago, a client is on Zoom with me, feeling like an imposter, feeling like a fraud, you know, that whole kind of inner critic was loud. And he like leaned into the Zoom camera and said, How many people feel this way? And I said, everybody. But to your point, Laura, nobody very I don't want to say nobody, very few people build up the courage to say it out loud because shame is powerful and shame grows in the dark. So it just continues to grow and grow and grow. So I think what I would say is that that you're not alone. That this is a, I think, part of the human condition is to feel those things, to feel like, man, I have this inner experience and I shouldn't have it. You know, God, God tells me don't be anxious for scriptures tell me don't be anxious for anything, and here I am feeling anxious. Yep, all of us, every one of us. And it's okay. Shame dies in the light.

SPEAKER_04 12:14

Absolutely. And I agree, reach out for help. I mean, if it's not a friend that you trust, your your pastor, a professional, definitely don't sit and wallow in it. It's not a good place to be. So, my my listeners, if you've been holding it together for a long time and it it's gonna make sense that you are tired. And not because you're doing something wrong, but because you've been doing so much and you've been doing it quietly. And sometimes the most honest place to begin is to simply notice what it is you've been carrying.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:52

So, Kirk, what does holding it together look like now and how is it different?

SPEAKER_02 12:59

Yeah. Um, I I like to use the word authenticity. Um now, I I think I I think there's a myth that says authenticity is this sense of like, here I am, take me or leave me, right? If if I have a short temper, authenticity can mean, or or people use authenticity to mean, you know what? I have a short temper, Laura, I'm gonna lash out at you, and that's just who I am, take me or leave me. Uh, I actually don't think that's authenticity. I think that's the opposite of authenticity. So when I think of holding it together, I think, what does it mean for me to be authentically who God's created me to be, who I want to be, and who and how I want to be. I think those things, being able to get really crystal clear on those things, uh, and then getting crystal clear on how to how to implement those things in my life, align my life with those things, I think that for me is the is the the real sort of holding it together. Uh I think that's really the path of wholeness and thriving and alignment with God that that we're all searching for when we hold it together or when we fake it till we make it. But I think those sorts of alignment shifts are really the path of thriving and wholeness.

SPEAKER_04 14:14

In a recent podcast, I I posed a question, you know, who who are you? And and who do you want to be? And I've had some comments back on Facebook, I don't know who I am.

unknown 14:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:27

And sometimes it's your um a daughter, a son, a husband, a wife, a friend, an uncle, an aunt, a grandparent, uh, your profession may may give you a title. I think people don't they don't know what titles they need or want. And I'm like, so you know, name what all you are.

unknown 14:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:47

And if you don't have a lot of family, you're a cousin, you're a caregiver, you're a whatever. And then the next step, what do you want to be? If time, money, and nobody else's opinion matter, what would you want to do?

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:02

And then lean into that and see if that's where God's calling you. He may or he he may not.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Yeah.

unknown 15:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:10

And so I think that's where people struggle. Who am I?

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:13

And who am I in God?

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Yes. Yes. There's a there's an author named David Benner. I'm gonna butcher a quote, but I I love this quote. David Benner wrote a book called The Gift of Being Yourself. And I that title is triggering to about half people I talk to. Uh, so I I want to name that and I want to say, hang with me while I say this. David Benner would say that we can't fully know ourselves until we fully know who God is. Obviously, never ends this side of glory, right? And we can't fully know God until we fully know ourselves. There's this sort of creature-creator relationship that that interplays with one another. And and I just love that so much. I love this idea that that as we get to know God more deeply, we begin to know ourselves more deeply. And as we begin to know ourselves more more deeply, then we get to see the creator more deeply. It reminds me, too, of Saint Teresa of Avila. Sorry, I'm such a nerd here. Laura, are you familiar with the interior castle? Laura, I love it so much, right? It's this sort of, I mean, Saint Teresa's uh kind of a mystic church mother from so long ago with these nuggets of like Jesus lives inside of us, and the journey inside is where we find Jesus. And I just, yeah, I I think those things, knowing self and knowing God, are are so interrelated that that's how we begin to know who we are, and we can't separate, we can't really separate those those two knowings. Uh but I yeah, I love it. I think that's a great place to start to know who we are.

SPEAKER_04 16:39

Well, but we are also created in his image, and so people will tell me, Well, I don't know, I don't know who God is, I don't know, I don't know anything about him. And I'm like, uh yeah, you do look at yourself, number one, and then you know, go from there. If you were created in his image, not necessarily physically, um, but you, you know, you have a heart, you you know, you have all these different things and and why not. So yeah. Yeah. So my friends, before you move on with your day, I want you to take a moment and I want to know what feels unsteady for you right now. I'm not asking you to fix it, and you definitely don't have to have it all figured out.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

But just notice what it is and then take a small breath there. So, Kurt, if someone is sitting here today and they are feeling really unsteady, what would you want them to hear?

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Yeah, I think I want them to hear a message of self-compassion. I think, you know, if I can channel the words of Jesus a little bit, but when Jesus talks about the the yoke being light and the burden being easy, I think that extends into an invitation for self-compassion when we think about holding it all together, figuring out who we are. I think there's a measure of self-compassion that God not only graciously invites us to live into, but also I think that really creates fruitful and productive space for personal growth and maturity. I just, I don't know a lot of people, myself included, that have grown deeply and matured deeply without self-compassion, without um without the invitation that today and tomorrow, I'm still gonna try to hold it together and I'm still gonna feel unsteady. There's still gonna be moments that that unsteadiness wins and controls how I show up. And I get to try it again the next day. I think that's the self-compassion piece is that that unsteadiness that you referenced, Laura, has taken decades to grow and to get solidified in us. It's gonna take a long time to undo it. So self-compassion to say, I might do the things that I don't want to do again tomorrow, and I will have another chance to try it again differently.

SPEAKER_04 18:56

When you were talking about yolks, I I had a conversation yesterday with a dear friend. And during my my quiet time, so I call it having coffee with God. And sometimes my cat were up early, early, early. My husband, we're up at 4:15. People who know me know I am so not a morning person. It takes like a gallon of coffee. But I come into my special place and with my blanket and my Bible and all my devotions, and I I study and I do devotions and I pray. And as I was praying and listening, he gave me some scriptures for her. One of them was Galatians 5, uh, 5.1, the yoke of slavery. And not so much, you know, because you know, people think, well, I'm not I'm not a slave to anything, but it may be your job because you have debt or you have responsibilities, you have a house and cars and whatnot. And one of the qu or two of the questions I I asked her were, What's your yoke and what is holding you back? And then write it, name it, and pray, Lord help me break free from it. Because I think there's I mean, even people I see people, oh, I didn't get anything done today. Why? Well, I was watching TikTok. Okay, or I was been wat binge watching something on Netflix, okay, that's fine. Or I, you know, for someone who has a chronic health thing, I I just I couldn't. I just couldn't get out of bed.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

And that's fine. But, you know, what would the world look like right now if you didn't have that yoke?

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:30

I think that's a really challenging one for some people. And I'm sorry if I'm stepping on anyone's toes. I've been there too. I get it. I I went through a season of of cancer where I couldn't all I could do was get up and put the dog out to go potty, and that that was I was exhausted.

unknown 20:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

Yeah. And I love that. I mean, I I think what I would affirm in that, I mean, I I think as a trauma-informed coach, I I would say there's a lot of yokes we don't even know we carry that that keep us from living into who and how we want to be. And and I think that that the invitation is to to be able to see those. And, you know, once we see them, now we get to decide what to do with them. But can can we see them? Can we name them? And can we then take the agency and the ownership that I think God gives us to address the yokes that that keep us from being who and how we are called to be.

SPEAKER_04 21:21

And in as I deal with folks with with trauma and abuse, oftentimes their yoke is that trauma or that abuse because they don't know who they are outside of that label.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

And I just want to say God created you for so much more.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Yeah. Exactly.

unknown 21:41

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 21:41

So, Kurt, thank you so much for sitting with us at this conversation. Is there anything else you want to leave the listeners with?

SPEAKER_02 21:50

Yeah, I mean, I I just I love the invitation to self compassion. I that's that's maybe maybe where I want to end. I I don't I don't think I can say that enough to my clients and probably your audience. To just be kind to yourselves, lean into the work, be kind to yourselves, and trust the process.

SPEAKER_04 22:06

Yeah. Yes, be kind to ourselves. I mean, we're we're often our worst critic, our worst scheduler are we beat ourselves up constantly. Wow. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for your conversation, your insights. And I know that so many people are carrying these same things quietly. I'm really grateful you were here with us today.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Yeah, thanks for the space set the counter, Laura.

SPEAKER_04 22:31

If something in today's conversation resonated with you and you're curious about exploring this kind of work a little more, you can learn more about Kurt and his approach at Brimstone Coaching Group. And that'll be brimstonecoaching group.com. Don't worry, there'll be a link in the show notes because you won't be able to spell it like I couldn't. And there's there's space if you want to gently take a step if and when you are ready. So as you go today, you might carry this with you.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

I want you to breathe in, and as you do, say, I am held. And as you exhale, even here.

SPEAKER_04 23:14

Hear this blessings, my friend. May you know that even in the unsteady places, you are not alone. May you find space to breathe, even in the middle of what feels uncertain. And may you trust gently and slowly that something steady is still holding you.

SPEAKER_03 23:33

Amen. Thank you for sitting at the counter with me today.

SPEAKER_04 23:41

If something in this conversation stayed with you, you might want to carry it gently into your day. No need to rush past it. And if you need a place to pause, reflect, or simply breathe, you can find more at daretoliveagain.com. Until next time, take a breath, notice what's in front of you, and remember, you're always welcome here at the counter.