22 | When You Wonder If You'll Always Carry This with Dr. Larry Brant

Sometimes the heaviest burdens are the ones no one else can see.

The things we've carried for years.
The stories we've never told.
The guilt, shame, grief, trauma, or memories we fear others wouldn't understand.

In this episode of At the Counter with the Baking Pastor, Laura sits down with Dr. Larry Brant, Navy chaplain, ministry leader, and advocate for those navigating PTSD and moral injury.

Together they explore what happens when people carry pain in silence, why safe spaces matter, and how healing often begins when we are finally seen and heard without judgment.

Whether your wounds come from military service, grief, trauma, abuse, loss, or experiences you rarely talk about, this conversation offers hope, compassion, and a reminder that restoration is possible.

In This Episode

• What moral injury is and why it differs from PTSD
•  How guilt and shame can shape the way people see themselves
• Why carrying pain alone often makes healing harder
• The importance of safe, judgment-free spaces
• How trauma affects relationships, faith, and identity
• What restoration really means after difficult experiences
• Why healing doesn't require becoming who you were before

A Quote to Carry With You

"People need a safe place to unburden themselves."

Reflection Questions

• What burden have you been carrying alone?

• Is there someone safe with whom you can share part of your story?

• What would it look like to take one small step toward healing?

Connect with Dr. Larry Brant

Website: https://restoring-the-broken.com/

His book, Restoring the Broken: https://amzn.to/43RROsa

Email: chapsbrandt@yahoo.com

Resources

Learn more about soul care, coaching, and encouragement at https://bakingpastor.com

If this conversation stayed with you, consider sharing it with someone who may need the reminder:

You do not have to carry everything alone.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to At the Counter with the Baking Pastor. I'm Laura. Pull up a chair. There's no rush here. This season we're sitting with the hard days. The ones that don't resolve quickly. The ones that change us in ways we we didn't ask for. Here at the counter, nothing needs to be fixed. You don't have to have the right words. You don't have to have it all figured out. You can just come as you are and stay a while. This is hard days at the counter. Today's conversation sits in one of those spaces. There are seasons in life when questions sometimes come up. The question of how do I fix this? It's is this how it always is gonna feel? Sometimes the weight we carry doesn't have clear edges, it lingers in the body, in the mind, in quiet spaces that we don't always talk about. If you ever feel like you're holding something that you can't quite explain, or found yourself wondering if this is just how it's gonna be, you are welcome here today. Today I'm sitting with Dr. Larry Brandt. Larry is a Navy chaplain with over 16 years of military service. Thank you for your service, along with 25 years in local ministry. He is a board certified chaplain who has spent much of his work walking alongside those who are navigating PTSD and moral injury, helping people find their way back to a life that feels worth living again. Larry, I'm so grateful you're here with us today.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Well, thank you for the invitation to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

So before we go anywhere else, when you think about people you've walked alongside over the years, those caring things that they don't always talk about, what have you come to understand about what they really need?

SPEAKER_01 2:14

What I've come to understand about what they really need is they need they need a safe place to unburden themselves. They need a safe place to talk about everything that they've been through, everything that they have done, without the fear that they're going to be rejected or seen as a monster.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Yeah, I can imagine the the judgment they may feel that others will will have towards them might might feel very heavy and burdensome.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Very much so. Very much so. And and what I've seen is that that step of providing a safe place for them to talk is is that first step on their road back to restoration.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

So as a pastoral counselor, I I like to hold space for those who've dealt with grief, trauma, and abuse. And being seen and heard without judgment is huge. And I'm glad you you you hold space for that.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Very much so. Very much so. I think that people struggling with uh with PTSD, injury, other types of trauma, I think holding it in can be the absolute worst thing for them.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

So I think we might need to define moral injury, because I'm not sure that's a normal thing that people think about.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Yeah, I would agree with you. My experience has been most people have a fairly good understanding of what PTSD is, but very few, especially outside of the military or medical world, really understand what moral injury is. And, you know, we know that PTSD is fear-based trauma. Something that happens to us, caused us to possibly fear for our lives, fear for someone else. But moral injury is when we do something, sometimes under the direction of someone in authority over us, or we may fail to prevent something, and the result of which goes against everything that we believe, ethically, morally, and especially spiritually. And it breaks us to the point that we absolutely just become consumed with guilt and shame, leading us to believe that we're no longer lovable, we're no longer forgivable by family, friends, even God.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

And as I work with folks, not necessarily dealing with moral injury, I see that they usually have experienced trauma with something else, trauma with the abuse, trauma with the grief, in your case, trauma with the moral injury. And it's not just what happened to them, but it's what they carry internally because of that situation. How would you describe the differences between those and and how they shape someone's sense of self?

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Well, it it shapes their sense of self in that they feel corrupted. They feel um like they I I've heard, I've heard phrases like, I I feel like I am just infected with evil. I feel like I am just completely corrupted from head to toe. I had one I had one service member tell me, chaps, it feels like my soul has been shattered. And that sense of self is degraded. They feel like they're a monster hiding in plain clothes, and they're afraid that if they tell their story, they're going to be rejected even by those closest to them.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

That is so sad. So my father was in the Air Force and spent time in Vietnam, and wars happen. And I think, especially here in the United States, we expect to be safe in our country and to protect our our friends and other nations. It's just you know, I've grown up with it. It was it was a given. I know we haven't had a whole lot of big wars recently. We've had some skirmishes and some some countries acting not nice. Sometimes we have to to deal with. And it it just really is challenging. And I think people say, Well, you know, how could you be, you know, a killer or how could you injure someone on purpose? They they don't go into the military assuming that's what's gonna happen. They go in because they they feel a sense of calling, they want to serve their country, maybe it was a family legacy that they're just carrying on. How do you see that?

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Uh, I completely agree. Uh, you know, many come in uh to honor patriotism, many come in because they want to defend the nation from people who would like to see our way of life go away. Some are coming in because they're escaping something that they see even worse where they're living or their family life is is very bad, or they may see no way to support themselves outside of joining the military, or the other option would be to hold a minimum wage job that really doesn't pay much of anything. And then when we deploy, we deploy not really for many, not really understanding what the situation's going to be like. I found it interesting that you talked about that sense of safety. I grew up with that same sense of safety, but after my combat deployment, I no longer have that. I no longer have a sense of safety because of what happened in that deployment. And so that's something that that I work through every single day. But with those, then being put in terrible situations that it's very hard to prepare people for. You know, the service member who is standing guard in a foreign country and someone, a pregnant woman, walks up in a suicide vest, and there is no good situation there. There's only a bad and a worse. And so you have to choose the least worst situation of which that still scars you.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

And the other thing I think is the enemy is deceptive, right? Is that person actually pregnant or are they wearing, you know, a pregnancy belt? People tell me all the time, God doesn't support war. But yet in the Bible we see multiple, multiple battles. David especially was what was it? Saul killed his thousands and David killed his tens of thousands. I don't know that I say that God condones it, but I think we have to re it is in the Bible, it is something that that we need to connect with.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

I would agree. You know, look at Numbers 31. In Numbers 31, God sets the Israelites up against the Midianites. And remember, the Midianites using Balaam had tried to entrap morally the Israelites. And God said take them out, and so they do, they win the battle, they win the day. But I find it interesting that when they come back, they're stopped outside of the community, and they're told that for seven days they need to reflect on what just happened, on what they did, even though it was in the name of God and God told them to do this, they still need to reflect on the messiness of war, and not just once, but twice, rededicate themselves to God, and everything that they bring back, whether it was something that they brought back from the battlefield or what they used in battle, had to be rededicated to God. And I think what God is telling us there is that there are times that war is necessary, but we need to understand that it's not messy. I mean, that it's messy, not clean, and that after it's all said and done, we need to go through some type of ritual of rededication to understand that we we need to kind of reset ourselves before coming back into society. I think that's something that we have not done a great job of, especially here lately. Uh, I think about my own time when I came back from Afghanistan. One day I boarded a plane in Bastion Airfield. The next day I was back in North Carolina. And there was, and while we did some return and reunion briefs, I don't think there was any serious reflection on what just happened to those Marines and sailors and the adjustment that was going to need to be made as they came back into society. Um, and that's something we try to help them do, uh those who are struggling with that, to kind of help them mentally, emotionally, and spiritually reset so that they feel like they they can be loved and forgiven by God.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Yeah. So in your experience, when someone has been strong, we are always told, especially in grief, you have to be strong for your mother, your grandmother, which in the grief training I've been trained in, that's an excuse to stay busy, and that's not a good thing. And you don't have to be strong for anybody. But but we know that we've all heard the lies and people believe them. So when someone has been strong for so long and hasn't had a place to lay any of it down, what happens to that person?

SPEAKER_01 12:18

I think what that ha is to use a different phrase, I think their well runs dry. They they just simply use themselves up and come to a point where they're no good to themselves or anyone else. And when they're allowed to set that burden down and to unpack it, and to unpack it under the guidance of somebody who can help them do that in a healthy way. I've seen miracles happen. You know, I I I think of one gentleman that we've worked with here. Here we here at 29, we've got a an eight-week course that I lovingly ripped off from the VA with their permission and tweaked it for active duty. And uh, it's an eight-week course on reconnecting to your faith after trauma. I call building spiritual strength. Wonderful course. And we have seen miracles come out of that, where one gentleman I'm thinking of in particular, because we, even though it was geared toward active duty, we have had retirees who work on base go through the course as well. And I think of one gentleman who he was working late one night in his office preparing for an exercise that's that was coming up when one of our chaplains was walking through the building, and and he was a very gruff person, you know, more grunts than actual words, you know, uh, which I realize is a marine thing anyway, but even he was even more so. Uh, and and one of our chaplains just laid it on the line to him and said, you know, I I really think you're just getting eaten up by stuff. I think you need this course. Can I recommend you and have the chaplain who who oversees it talk to you? And he goes, Yeah, go ahead. So the gentleman came and uh I I co-lead the course with a mental health professional so that we can see the spiritual and the clinical kind of work together. Um and he came that first night and was very guarded. We weren't sure if he was gonna come back. He was a very tall man, but he was very haunched over. Um no, no smiles, all frowns, uh, very sarcastic and negative view. Um and so we did that first night. We gave him his workbook because I'm a believer in homework. Um, and um interestingly enough, that week he took the workbook to his counselor at the VA who reorganized her sessions with him for the next eight weeks to go along with the topics we were going to be doing, which I thought was absolutely brilliant of her. And then during the next eight weeks, we saw a gradual change in that gentleman. We saw him begin to reconnect to the faith of his childhood, and then at the end of that time, I remember our our final night, and I remember him saying to the group, I'm going to do it. We were like, What are you going to do? And he said, I'm going to I'm going to open up and tell my wife everything. So for over 20 years since his last deployment, he had kept his wife and his children kind of at bay because he was afraid if they saw the real him, they would think that he was a monster and want nothing more to do with him.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

So he was willing to have a I'm trying to think of the best word.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

He was willing to have barely a relationship with them over risking having none. And I saw him about eight weeks after that, and then I s I run into him every now and again on the base now. And after he opened up to his wife, the great thing his wife said was, I've been waiting for you to just share with me. I knew I couldn't force you to do it. And instead of being seen like a monster, she showed unconditional love, as did their children. And it's so interesting to see him now versus that first night he came in because now he walks straight up, he's not haunched over, he's lost about 60 pounds because he's not eating his stress. He laughs and jokes with people in his office. I've even had some of his office folks come to me and say, What did you do to him? It's like he's a different person. Um, and and that's just the difference of unburdening yourselves and reconnecting with God and getting that support of the family. He's enjoying life, he's enjoying his marriage. And the difference that God has made in his life is just simply night and day.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

I remember growing up hearing other folks say, Oh, don't go ask Uncle So-and-so, and definitely don't go ask your grandfather. Don't ask him anything about the military. And at one point, I was um back in South Carolina going to a college, and I was taking German. And my grandfather had been over in World War II. He drove a tank for Patton. I'd be sitting there practicing my German, and he'd he walked by and he'd answer me. And we got to connect and open up over that, and then later that day, my grandmother's like, Well, I'm curious. I I don't know what y'all's deal is, and they just laugh. But we were able to learn some stuff, and he was very standout, like, you really want to know? And I was like, Yeah, I really want to know. I'm curious. And I I think a lot of people have that natural curiosity and they love their person. They may not like what the situation was that they were in, but they they love their person, and that was a neat experience. But I've heard for years, oh, we don't ask Uncle So-and-so about anything. And I'm thinking Aren't there great stories? Don't you want to know? Don't you want to pass that down?

SPEAKER_01 18:45

It's interesting that you say that because my dad also drove a tank for Patton, was the only survivor of his tank. Um, because they they took a panzer shell directly and he was the only one who made it out. But I remember him saying he met Patton twice and that was two times too many. He hated the man. But we we grew up with the same thing. Don't ask dad about the war. Don't ask dad about the war. And then shortly before he passed, my nephew had was doing a report on World War II and specifically the Battle of the Bulge, which my dad was involved in. He was actually part of the group that was caught behind the German lines and had to survive. And the stories my dad told him, and then from that point forward, he was more freer with the information, and we realized that he he actually wanted to share. He just wasn't sure about how to get started.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

You know, there there's something that happens when someone has carried something so heavy for such a long time, especially when they don't feel safe talking about it. It doesn't just stay in one part of their life like the gentleman you described. It it shows up in their body, in their relationships, in the way they see themselves and in how they relate to God. And sometimes what they need most is not fixing, not explaining, but simply to be seen and heard without having an opportunity to perform strength anymore. They just want to be able to lay it down. What I am curious about is what does it look like practically and personally for someone to begin that process of the being heard and laying it down after all those years when they didn't feel they could speak?

SPEAKER_01 20:34

It's very interesting. Sometimes they feel like they just can't go on anymore unless they open up. And as a military chaplain, they know that we have 100% confidentiality. Ours is very unique in that the military sets it up to where we're not mandatory reporters for anything. So they know that they can come to us and basically share anything, and it's not going to follow them back home, it's not going to follow them back to their office. We're going to hold that information as sacred. And so, with that, that's and for many, they see us as God's face. And so they will come to us and share things. Sometimes we're we're the last resort, but it's very interesting, kind of like like you said, they'll they'll come, they'll be very downcast, they'll be haunched over, and then they begin to share. And sometimes it's just the fact them opening up and sharing and us not reacting in a negative way, then you can immediately see the change in their posture. And sometimes we'll do some motivational interviewing and talk to them about trying to get what happened behind the scenes for all of that, and and helping them to see where where the burden lies, because you and I both know because something that happened doesn't mean that they're at fault for that, or it doesn't mean that they should be accepting all of the fault. That they are. And helping them to think through those things, helping them to think through that meaning of what happened behind that. And being able to do that to find that safe space is just so huge for these folks. And when they do, you can see the difference between when they walk in and when they walk out. And then as they as we follow up with them in succession, you can see just a difference in their whole countenance.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

I see that, especially with folks who have been abused. They feel that they caused it to happen, or they didn't stop it because they were threatened for a whole host of reasons, you know, didn't want to shame that person, didn't want to anybody think less of them. No, I I see that, and I just want to hug them and say, it's okay. You did what you had to do to live through the moment, and it's okay to let it down. So for someone listening today who may not use the words PTSD or moral injury for what they're feeling, but they know what it feels like to carry something quietly. What would you want them to know?

SPEAKER_02 23:12

I would want them to know that God loves them.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

There is a path of restoration, and that there are people who want to hear their story without judgment and help them begin to walk that path back. Now, when I say restoration, I don't mean things are going to be like they were before. But what I do mean is that you can begin to enjoy life again and begin to make meaning from what you've been through and maybe even help others who have experienced something similar.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

I agree completely. Let's take a moment together. If something from this conversation is stirring in you, you don't have to push it away, and you definitely don't have to figure it out right now. I want you to notice it's there and how it feels. And as you do that, I want you to take a slow breath in and let it out gently. You are allowed to take this one moment at a time without holding everything together. If something in this conversation connected with you, Larry offers resources and support for those navigating PTSD and moral injury, and for those who simply need a place of being heard, and they can begin that process. You can learn more at restoringthebroken.com. There's dashes in it, so don't worry. I'll put the link in the show notes. Larry, is there anything you want to share finally with our audience?

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Yes, if you wish, you're welcome to email me at chapsbrand, chapsbrand at yahoo.com, and I know you'll put that in the show notes as well. Um and I I just want to emphasize that I know you feel broken, but you don't have to always feel that way. There is a path for restoration, and I know that Laura and I both would love to help you along that path and have you get to the point where you enjoy life again.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Larry, for being here. I know that people are dealing with PTSD from a number of reasons, and some don't know what it is, they just know they're feeling it. And I'm hoping that this conversation sparks something with them. So thank you for coming and sharing with me today.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

My pleasure, and thank you so much for having.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

My friends, hear this blessing. May you remember this. You don't have to carry everything alone. Even the things you don't have words for, even the parts you've kept hidden, they are not beyond care, they are not beyond God's presence. May you find a place, even a small one, where you can begin to set something down, and may you be met there with gentleness. Amen. Thank you for sitting at the counter with me today. If something in this conversation stayed with you, you might want to carry it gently into your day. No need to rush past it. And if you need a place to pause, reflect, or simply breathe, you can find more at BakingPastor.com. Until next time, take a breath, notice what's in front of you, and remember, you're always welcome here at the counter.