The Power of Rest: Letting Go of Spiritual Striving

A deep conversation exploring consciousness, awakening, and the illusion of separation from God. Through powerful metaphors and reflections on the meaning of the cross, this discussion examines the human search for fulfillment, the false sense of self, and the invitation to move beyond striving into rest, presence, and inner union. Themes of healing, perception, surrender, and the realization that “it is finished” weave throughout this thought-provoking and contemplative episode. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome back to our Journey to Trick podcast. I'm Maura Jennings and I'm your host for this conversation. We have Robert Jax back with us again today for our third episode. Robert, I'd love to invite you on now, and I am thrilled to have you with us again and excited to hear what you've got in store for us today.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

Welcome, Robert. Awesome. Thank you again, Martha. And uh I am so happy to be here. Um I think it's gonna be a very, very interesting message here. I wanted to let you know right off the bat, uh, we did get a few, I got a few, you know, really good comments on the faith message we had that people are starting to understand it. But I also had three or four, at least three, four people that said, I understand it intellectually. I really I get it. I know, I I know what you're saying, but how do I enter into that? How can I apply that to my life? And uh I have they even said almost word for word, uh, can you teach it simpler? Can you make it, you know, where it's more applicable to my life? So we kind of want to go there today, if that's a good start with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Yeah, that's a great start. You and I were speaking earlier, um, and you were talking about the river entering the ocean, it's not an intellectual thing that's separate from the whole of you moving into something that's really quite deep. So, yes, I'd love for you to share that. That's a really good place to start.

SPEAKER_03 1:28

And since you said that, if you know, if you think about a river running through, you know, down a mountain or whatever, and when it enters the deeper part of the water, the river just slows down and it's in perfect union with the deep, you know. And so I want to start with water. And you and I have had these discussions, but I've got to lay a foundation for our listeners. Now I just think right in front of you a nice big fish tank. It can be any size you want, the fish tank, just a beautiful fish tank filled with crystal clear water. And in that fish tank, we're gonna put in a crystal clear glass, just sink it down to the bottom. And now we know that the glass is in the water, and we know that the water is in the glass. And I want to just relate this to consciousness. Now we're the glass, you're the glass, I'm the glass. Let's just say we're the glass of God, you're the glass of God, you're the creation of God, and in you is consciousness, and outside of you is consciousness. We could say Christ. In you is Christ, outside of you is Christ. We are submerged in and out with whatever consciousness is, whatever God is, because you really can't name it. You can only realize it, so to speak. So you and I have had these discussions, and so we want to use that fish tank, crystal clear, beautiful water for our opening. That way we people have an understanding that we're just a beautiful, clear glass of God, right? And so you and I have discussed, and we want to point it out what if that glass is a stained glass? Like in churches and cathedrals, they have beautiful stained glasses and glasses of every color. So if that glass has many stains and it does, let's just say every cloud, every color you could think about, well, the inside wouldn't be able to see the outside, and vice versa, you know, because of the stained glass. Now we know that that's going to be our thought world or the thinking world. And the only thing separating us from seeing is we're already in union with it, but we can't see it, we can't understand it because of our intellect. And uh, so I want to lay those two things down, and uh, I want to show you a couple of things. Let's just say you're in a desert place. Let's just say you've been out in the desert, and now your clothes are ragged, your shoes are gone, the sand is hot, your skin's burning, it's peeling, you've been out there for days, you're you're just miserable, you have no water, you're man, oh God help me, whatever. You know, I want to I I hate this, I want to get out of this, and it'd be such a miserable state. It would be, you could say, unforgivable, an unforgivable state, correct? An unforgivable place is where you would be. Just so bitter, un you know, it's an unforgivable state. And so we want to go into the unforgivable state, and we're gonna come back to the water here in a little bit and the stained glass. Okay, because I want to I'd like to take you to straight, just straight um to another place in the in the Bible where Jesus was in the garden praying, right before he was about to enter into his crucifixion. And so he took his disciples out to the garden to pray. And while he was praying, you know, he prayed the most, it would have been what a lot of people say the the horror, most horrible prayer. He knows he's about to be beaten, you know, and and take on the curse of the world. He's gonna have the crown of thorns and all the disease, lack, limitation, everything that every human in the whole human condition, he knows he's gonna take it upon himself. And so a lot of people have taught that that's why he was in such agony that uh, you know, he's gotta take this on himself. And I've just seen it a little different, and I and I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. I'm just gonna show you my view, which helped me out. So as he's there praying, and this agony is coming up on him and coming up on him, and he's like, Father, let this cup pass apart from me. Nevertheless, not my will, thine be done. And he goes and checks on his disciples, and they're still asleep. So now the agony is even more. So he goes back and he prays again, pretty much the same prayer, except not my will, thine be done. And three times he goes, and his disciples are asleep. And this is what I see about that scene. It wasn't the agony of the cross. Jesus embraced the cross. It wasn't the fact he was gonna be beaten, it wasn't the fact, you know, that he was gonna bear the curse and the sin and all of that. The man was in absolute, total agony because he knew he was gonna fall asleep. He knew, see, all to this time Jesus was the most enlightened man ever. He was God in the flesh, he had total enlightenment, total, absolute, there's nothing else. He was so in union, his glass was so clean and so pure, there was no separation. He knew everything. But he knew at that point when he was praying, it wasn't about the cross, it wasn't about the the beatings, it was it was nothing like that. It was the fact that he knew in that moment he had to fall asleep, he had to so identify with me, with you, with us. He had to so identify with us that he had to give up his relationship with the father, and that was such agony for him. He knew at that moment the the deep the pain that is so deep, not that I have to go suffer, but Papa, I have to leave you. I have to quit being totally enlightened, and I have to fall asleep, I have to forget who I am so that I can identify with Robert, with Mara, with every human being. You see what I mean? The depth of his groanings, it wasn't about the cross, it was about the departure of leaving himself, you know, leaving the total enlightenment to basically total darkness. Okay, and so what I want to point out here, he knew, he knew beyond a shadow of a doubt, he was about to enter what's called an unforgivable state. The state that mankind is in. We are all in what's called an unforgivable state, a place where it's so unbearable. It's like being in that desert place, it's so unbearable. The humans, we can't find our way out. There's a longing and a desire to for have some water, to have some relief, to have some health. You know, God help me, God help me. Whatever it takes, just get me out of this miserable state. And every religion in the world has brought us right to the pinnacle, but nobody's been able to deliver us out of that state. It's an unforgivable state. Can you see that? Yeah, and see, we're so separated in our in our what's called the false sense of self. We're so separated that we live in a state of agony, and there's such a deep yearning inside of everyone born. There's something still inside there that seeks and wants it and desires it and prays for it and asks for it and hopes for it, and whatever it is, and people get lost so lost in this world, it becomes their intellect, it becomes their career, it becomes their spouse, it becomes their child, and all these things, there's nothing wrong with them, but there's still that something inside of us that just wants to get back. And see, Jesus had to give up himself, he had to give up the Father, he had to enter what's called a blasphemous state, an unforgivable state. The state is unforgivable. Being in that desert place is unforgivable, and once you're free of that, you get home. What do you want? He you want to go home. That's what you want. You want to go home and get some rest and water and get back with your family and your loved ones. And so Jesus was suffering so deeply. And this is what he was suffering. Every time he went to his disciples, they were asleep. And see, we're asleep. This whole thing is a nightmare. And it's not our fault. We entered into it through birth, through mesmerism, or through hypnotism. I don't know exactly how we got here, but we're asleep and we're in the unforgivable state. And no matter how hard we try, we cannot get healed, we cannot get what we need, we cannot reach God. And so religion comes along, every religion in the world, and they they have great teachers, but we take the teacher and then we start worshiping the teacher, and we don't know his message, we forget his message, and so we set up an idol in our in our dream mind, it's our mental mind. And so we got Buddhism, we got Taoism, we got all of them. We got the you know, the Jews worship Jehovah, the Christians worship Jesus, and none of these are wrong. They're that's what will get you right to the pinnacle, but we have to wake up and realize it's an idol in our mind, it's a mind God. And I'm gonna take you deeper because you and I have been talking about this, probably not deeper, but just on a different um path here, because now Jesus, you know, he's like, Oh my god, Father, let this cut pass. I don't want to be separate from you. And until that time, he was total enlightenment, and now he had to basically give up the father, become total darkness so that he could identify as me, as you, as our confusion and our destruction and our loss, whatever it is, the whole human drama. So now you see the man on the cross, and this man on the cross, now he's it's dual, he's he's a dualist, he's got the same dual mind that we got as duality. It's good and it's bad, it's right and it's wrong, and it's evil and it's pure, and and so now you got duality on the cross. This man lost his purity. He gave up his purity so that he could enter into our unpurity.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

I've never heard his said like that before, Robert.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

Well, to think about it now. So he excuse me, so so he takes it to the cross, and on that cross there's two men. There's the first man, Adam, that dreamed, okay, the dreamer, and then there's a second man, Jesus, which is the enlightened one. But it's it's a dual nature now. Jesus had to lower himself, he had to give up his purity, he had to give up his inner his all his innocent, everything that God is, he had to give up and surrender. And that was the agony in the garden. He had to give up Godhood, he had to give up the all-knowing, he had to give it up. And so on the cross is dying, the duality of the man, the deep groaning, the deep groaning that said, I thirst. That deep groaning, Mara, was I thirst for you. I thirst. He wasn't thirsty for water. It's like Father, I'm thirsty for you. But when I was there with him on the cross, I was there kind of in vision and awareness, and that thirst was so deep, it was pointed towards me, and it was like, I thirst for you, Robert. I've been thirsting for you since the day you were created, the day you fell asleep, so to speak. And he went to his disciples and they were still sleeping. And he's like, I don't want to fall asleep, I don't want to lose my innocence, I don't want to let this cup pass, but not my will. And so that was the purity of Jesus on the cross. I thirst, and Mara, that thirst is so deep, and it's in you, it's in me, it's in everyone. There's always a thirst to want more, and we think it's more stuff, more relationship, more wisdom, more knowledge, more whatever the world has to offer. And so our intellect becomes almost like an idol, and we don't see it. Yeah, and so so the man's setting, he's there and he's suffering and suffering. And I was that man, I was there with him, and I was realizing and identifying with him, and I know we've discussed this, but as we're sitting there, and we're there, and I'm I'm weeping and feeling this man, you know, and I like I told you before, it's like a guy dying on the battlefield or something. His body's just he's in pain, he's shot up or wounded, and he's dying. And his last thoughts are his wife and his children, and he I thirst for home. I want to go home. I want to be there, and it's too late. And Jesus, he said, I thirst. Father, I just want to come back. I just need to be there. But then Adam kicks in because I'm setting that, I'm inside the man, I'm feeling it, it's on the cross, the suffering, I know it all. And I looked to I look inside myself in the cross, and I look to Jesus and I see his awareness, and he smiles at me. And when he smiled at me, I'm like, What? And that smile was so beautiful and so tender and so deep. And he said, That's Adam. And I looked up and I saw Adam, but Adam wasn't Adam, it was me, Mara.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

And I was crying, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? I believed in you, I prayed to you, Jesus. I begged you, Jesus, I followed you, Jesus. I did everything you said.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

You know, I fasted, I prayed, I fed, I gave my money to the church. I did it all. I did it all. And that was me. That wasn't the Christ, that wasn't the love of Jesus dying on that cross. That was me, the agamic man, the man asleep. And I was suffering, and Jesus smiled, and I realized, Mara, it wasn't Jesus just dying on the cross. He said, If I be lifted up, I will draw you into me. And therefore he took me to the cross, and I died, and you died, and we all died, and that removes the stains from the glass because we couldn't do it ourselves. See, that's what's called blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Jesus had to literally blaspheme, he had to go into blasphemy, he had to because we're in the dream, and the dream means blasphemy or separation from the truth, is what it really means. And we are so separated from the truth that we're living in a blasphemous state that we create, we've created all these mind idols, and we worship everything under the sun. And the wise man in the Bible said there's nothing new under the sun, but we worship everything, everything you name it. It's anger, it's guilt, it's shame. It's a it's a man named Jesus. That's my mind idol. You any you know you can see that, right? Any religion?

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Yes, we're always looking outside of ourselves for everything, for some sort of contentment, for some sort of fulfillment, and it comes and goes. And sometimes it's a deeper yearning, sometimes it's a lesser yearning, sometimes it's what appears to be fulfillment, but it comes and goes. And when you were on the cross, Robert, um, because that was a vision that you were having, is that right? And you were having a vision, and you became Jesus on the cross. You were the one now dying, and that's what it means when it's when it says that you know he died, when he died, he died for all of us.

SPEAKER_03 16:50

He died as us, as Robert, as Maura, each one of us, and see, we have to identify with that, it's a recognition. And Mara, do you remember what we you and I discussed? And you you opened my brain to that. What was what was he crying out? My god, my god, forgive me, or why have you forsaken me? You said, Well, that's an accusation, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Yes, because you you had said to me, you had said that that you in that vision, you were telling me about that vision, and you had said that he, you know, he shouted out, Why have you forsaken me? Because you had told me that that was um that wasn't Jesus that died, that was the the fallen nature, the adamic nature. And I said to you, it just occurred to me that actually that because there have been so many controversies to what he meant at that point. Um, what you know what what does that mean? Because that was a cry, and it just occurred to me that actually because it was the adamic nature, it was the fallen nature that was being crucified, that we've always looked outside of ourselves, and we have, and the reason we die is because we look outside of ourselves, and even in the last moment of death, that was Robert, that was the Adamic nature dying on the cross, still looking outside of itself and accusing in a way, or saying, outside of the why did you let me die? Why have you forsaken me? So, again, even in the throes of the last moments of death, that nature still had not had um, you know, in the last breath, it was still outside of itself, it hadn't achieved the union, the remembrance.

SPEAKER_03 18:32

Yes, yeah, and like you was telling me the other day, and it's like it made so much sense. I was accusing my God. Yeah, my God, and see that and see the Bible says the devil is the accuser, yes, and I want to tell people plainly, the devil is just like an idol, too. People talk so much about this devil, and this devil is the fallen nature, and it's an accusing nature, and we can never find that peace and that rest. And see, that's what's so beautiful about this. There's nothing we can do, Mara. Nothing. We can't pray, we can't ask, we can't beg, we can't plead. Our idol God should be dead, and we need to, and that's why I've told people we need to crucify this mind Jesus we got, and we're always praise Jesus, praise God, you know, I love you, and all that, because it's an idol worship. But once we die and we realize, oh my God, get rid of this mental God I've got, and we resurrect into the absolute awareness of the Christ mind. There has to be a death before there can be a resurrection. And we absolutely it's not it's not even more that we enter in, it's the fact that we wake and realize, oh my God, I've never left. I was never separate from God. And that whole yearning, my whole life was God in me, yearning for me to wake up. And I thought I was yearning to get to God. He's like just standing there patiently, loving me my whole life through all my makeup, through all my junk. He's just waiting for me to wake up and realize I never left. I was I've never, it's like, son, you've never been out of my presence. I've never left you. I've watched you the whole time you took your nap. If that makes sense. If that makes sense, and why you were dreaming, and why you dreamed that you were sick, you dreamed that you were, you know, lustful, you dreamed that you were a thief, a robber, and a liar. And I heard you pray out to your mental gods, and all that's okay. But you were in a blasphemous state, and I cannot forgive blasphemy, son. So I had to put blasphemy to death. You see, he killed what's called blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. That way mankind can't. We can't we can't go to that place where we can no longer be separate from God. The only separation is a false sense of self. And that false sense of self has set up its own idols, its own gods. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Yes, its own mental world.

SPEAKER_03 20:57

It is, it really is. And see, we've had such beautiful, enlightened uh teachers throughout history. All of them, I mean, you look at the prophets and the saints and the seers and and the Buddha and the Taoists, and you know, and every one of these had a beautiful teacher that had the message, and this is what happens. We get so excited what we take the man and make him the message. He's not the message, he's the messenger, but we worship the messenger and we lose his message. You see, when we ask when I say crucify Jesus once and for all, the Bible even said it crucify him, crucify him, because Jesus just represented the man of the flesh, our flesh. Crucify the flesh man named Jesus, that flesh God we got set up in our mind that thinks it's worshiping Jesus. And I promise you, oh, I promise you, when that thing starts resurrecting and we realize, oh Mara, the worship becomes elation. It's no longer you worshiping a man. Do you think Jesus would worship himself? Do you think he would go around and say, I love you, Jesus. Worship you, Jesus. God bless you, Jesus. I just don't see him doing that. Well, when you realize you're the body of Christ, there's no longer I worship Jesus. No, you're the worship inside of Jesus. And now you're worshiping in the spirit. It's inside of you. It's just, it's like that music of the spheres I was telling you about, Mara. It is so elegant, so it's it's so unexplainable. It's so who we are, and it's so beautiful. And there's no death, there's no destruction, there's no sin, sickness, disease, lack, or limitation. All of that is the false identification.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

So the worship is real. Yeah, it's it's it's effortless. It's an inner worship because you're in union and it's happening, happening by itself.

SPEAKER_03 22:56

Yes. And anything we do, if we try to worship, or I mean if we try to meditate, or if we try to breathe and do break exercise, all that's our dirty works, they're filthy rags to him. He's like, no, no, no, it's finished. It's finished. Just relax. Just every morning, every day, just flow right into me and let me flow into you. Just like the wind blows where it goes, and you don't know where it comes or where it goes. He just be like the wind, just flow. Let me let me flow and I'll just flow through your life. I'll take you everywhere the wind goes. That's the spirit of God. I'll just just flow. Nothing, there's no effort. Just be. Just be. And so I want to get back to the tank of water in the glass. Because me and you had such a beautiful conversation about that. You know, because Mara, I promise you, if I find fault in you, that means my glass is stained. But if I'm pure in my and I can see right out my glass, then I promise you I can see right through your glass, and I can see the purity of your heart, the purity of my dad's heart, my sisters, whoever, whoever's anybody, the guy on the street, the guy in jail, they're all pure. Everybody's absolutely pure. And they're living under a false sense of self with all these stains in their mind, all these stains in their life. I was a sinner, I did this, I lusted, I stole, I begged, burned, pleaded, I, and plus I loved and lost my love, all the stains of our consciousness. And it's like a big, thick coat of many colors that we wear. And how do we how do we how do we take off that jacket? Well, Joseph had to be stripped. And see, that stripping ain't something we do. It happened at the cross. Jesus was stripped. Oh my god, when he stripped when he stripped himself of having to be separate from the Father. That had to be the most devastating act of love and kindness. It's and we can't understand it with the mind. But when you when you understand it through the spirit, oh my god, what a price he paid. I paid it all. I gave it all. I gave I gave I I gave it all. I gave up my godhood. I gave it all for you.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

You know, Robert, I can hear in your voice, I can hear that this is not um, you know, that your your um your sense of this, your feeling of it is because you know it. You've touched it, you know what the price was, and to give that up for humanity.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

Yeah, and that yeah, and so see, if we can identify with what he did, that's all we do. Just identify. So there's nothing I can do. I can't pray more, I can't fast more, I can't do anything. If I say, Jesus, please heal me, nothing wrong with that, okay? But that's the mental prayer, and in saying that, you're automatically saying, I'm separated from you. Does that make sense? Yes, and see that's how the mind, the deceiver, that's how he keeps crying out, why why won't you save me? My god, my god, why have you forsaken me? Because you're you're in a false sense of self that believes you need to be saved.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Isn't it so true? I mean, honestly, it's it's you know, I we we move from the you know, my own journey. I you move from the mental world into what you know life can give you into a different journey, and then it's the search. And once you start this search for truth, there's so much effort that you you know, you well, I I'll talk about myself that I have embarked upon in this search for truth. But the the trick is is that we're compelled to, you know, as humans, all we know is effort, and this rest, I mean, it's mixed. I mean, I know what you're saying is so true that you we are who we are, and in that rest, there there is only who we can be, and you know, God never left, and we never left Him. We were we are we are the glass and we are immersed in consciousness.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

Oh, oh, let me let me mention this while you said nursed. Oh my god, this is beautiful. Because I want to say this, okay? All information is out there, there's nothing new under the sun because I've been accused of teaching other people's medicine messages and stuff, and that's okay. It whatever I got it from, it doesn't matter. I'm living it. So, in that, think about this a baby in the womb. It doesn't cry out, mom, feed me. It doesn't say, Mom, you know, I need more minerals and vitamins, mom, I'm sick, heal me. No, no, no. The umbilical cord is connected to the mother. Everything that mother is flows right into that child. Everything, everything that child needs comes directly through that umbilical cord. And see, somewhere between us and God, that umbilical cord had been severed, only in only in the false sense of self. But see, he's constantly supplying everything we need. That's why we don't ask for money, we don't ask for health. We it's in the umbilical cord. Just stay connected. And then the only way you can do that is stop. You know what I mean? Just stop.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

You don't need a savior, you don't need nothing. It is done, it is finished.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Does that make sense? Yes, total sense. Yes, if only it was so easy though to just stop because the compulsion, you know, effort to, you know, we have been taught that the the the harder you work and the more effort you put in, the bigger the results. But of course, it's an upside-down kingdom, and that's you know, we know that, but we don't really know that we're living so far from you know, the true what our true nature is, because any effort to become moves you further away.

SPEAKER_03 28:45

Yeah, and that's why I and I'm not condemning any religion at all. I'm telling you, religions help get us here. And I I'm for the church, I love the church, I grew up in the church, but there has to come a time when you quit playing church and you be the church. You quit, you quit. How do you say it? All them outer prayers, you have to realize these are our mind gods. This is what the outside church taught us, and it's not what the inside it we made an organization out of it, and we said, Hey, come give us your money. You know what I mean? Hey, you need to pray more, hey, you need to fast more, hey, you need to, you know, you need to straighten up. Well, I'll tell you what, buddy, if you pray harder, God will answer your prayer. You know, how have we been so deceived? You know what I mean? We've deceived ourselves. And me and you were talking about confess. You know, confess is a double word, it's con. And that literally means to be conned, uh like a con job. We've we've conned ourselves, and fess means to fess up. I've conned myself, I'm a con artist, and my pastors, you know, I'm sorry, not our physical, not my pastor. I better shut up. But pastors, you know, and teachers of all religions, they reach the pinnacle and they don't know they most of them can't go beyond that because of the physical veil. You see what I mean? Yes, yes, it's a con job.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

Yes, if you haven't got the realization, you can't teach from realization, but you can teach the word, and that's what it means. The word kills, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

Let's see, the enemy comes to steal, kill, and destroy. Yes, and what's he want to kill, steal, and destroy? You're awakening, you know, or and we don't even have to awake, all we have to do is, I'm telling you, if there, if and each one of us has to do it individually, and it is happening, I promise you. This me and you, the conversations we've had from the beginning to now, I've seen such opening in you, such a growth, such a like you told me you said we all have that yearning, we all have that I thirst within us. And your thirst is so deep and so real. And when I hear you talk, and then the next time we talk, you're you're brighter, you're happier, you're more understanding. And I see that growth, and it's moment by moment. It's not a it's not a one-time aha moment, it's a journey, and it's moment by moment, line upon line, precept upon precept, we're awakening and we're awakening and we're awakening. I assure you, I'm not there. If I was there, I'd be walking on the water. I I'd be out healing every every little crippled kid that they see, you know. But that's it. If you see crippled kids, you've got crippled thoughts. You're still in the dream. There are no crippled kids. And yet, you know, and I know it hurts because people with crippled kids don't get it. And I'm not, I'm not, I'm not doubting that. I'm trying to help understand where we gotta go. We gotta go from the mental world into the consciousness world, and then we will see as he sees, and he can only see purity, and that's when we heal people, when we see their true identity, that's what heals them.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

When you your glass is clear, that glass that you you spoke about at the beginning in the fish tank. If it's stained, then you see through the stain.

SPEAKER_03 31:41

But when the glass is clear, yeah, then there's nothing there, right? There's no brokenness, there's no nothing, there's purity, there is exactly everything God is, and you're face to face with God. And you see, and it's not something you see, it's something that you are.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

So you can only see in out in others who you are.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

Yes, yes, yes. And so I look at you and I say, That is Christ right there. That is Christ, that's the purity of my being. And if I find one flaw in you, if you confess to me any of your sins, and I see one flaw in them sins, then guess what? The sins in me, because I'm the one seeing it, you're the one that's confessing it. You're telling that con, I'm fessing you like a festered wound. I'm getting you out of here. I'm not gonna allow you to fester in me. And so I cannot find fault in you if I do. Then the fault's in the one that finds the fault. And so if I keep my glass clear, keep my consciousness clear, well, guess what flows out of me? You're healing. Because all I see is purity. I can't see you crippled, I can't see you uh, you know, I can't see you hurt, I can't see you broken. I can identify with it, and as soon as I do, I'm like, okay, that's the mental. I can see that little stain, but that ain't her, and that ain't me. And so I see through the glass darkly. I see right through it, and I see your purity, Mara. And I could see, and it's like it's beautiful, it's beautiful, you're beautiful, everybody's so beautiful. The worst prisoner in prison is beautiful. Hitler, he's beautiful. He came and he played the game and he fell into it, and he did all kinds of atrocities, but his glass has so many stains, and nobody could see through it to heal Hitler, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

So when your glass is clear and you see it without any stains, then your mirror is going to be without stains. So by by beholding others outside of yourself through a clear glass, you behold them in their truth. Yes, and then that's how they get healed in their whole nature, and by beholding them in their truth as whole, as complete, as one with you, then they can they can heal because that's how they're be you are seeing them, and in that seeing, and that clear seeing, healing can happen. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_03 34:13

Yes, see, Jesus said, It is I. When a crippled came to him, all Jesus could see was purity, and he could look at that person and say, It is I within himself, just know it's I that's I there. I can't see his brokenness. He thinks he's crippled. And so the writers out here in the dream world, they wrote, Oh, a cripple came to Jesus and he healed him. There was no cripple there to be healed in Jesus' mind. He saw I, he saw the perfect, clear vessel, and Jesus' knowing heals the guy. They call it a healing, and Jesus said there's nothing there to heal. And so, it with that kind of awareness, that view, we turn around. That view is what we call healing. If that makes sense. See, we heal by our view. Our view is you're perfect, there's nothing there to heal. And if I can live that, and you come to me and you ask for prayer, see, I won't just go heal anybody because that's wrong. They're on their own journey. You take somebody out of their suffering, and that suffering might be what's needed to bring them to the cross. So you don't go heal everybody. But if somebody comes to you and asks, then you view them. You see, you view them exactly like Jesus viewed them. A blind man comes, and to Jesus, they're not blind, but to the outside man, he gives them a placebo effect. He spits on the ground, rubs his eyes, say, Okay, go wash. And so the writers write, oh man, he made mud. And Jesus already saw the guy as perfect. But for the writers and the people in the dream world, he had to give them a placebo, something to believe in, something physical to draw them to something spiritual. Because we were created out of the dust, we were created out of the dirt. So he put some more dust, he recreated the man's eyes for them people that way they could have they could have a visual and try to understand what was going on in the spiritual. And what was going on in the spiritual is Jesus just opened his eyes, he let that man see what he saw.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

And actually, you know, Jesus healed the blind, and I think that was an analogy for us. We are blind, our eyes, you know, we see, but we don't see clearly. And so Jesus in the Bible healing the blind is also the healing our spiritual blindness.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

I know it. They asked him, they said, Master, who sinned this man or his parents? This man's above 40 years old. Who sinned this man? He said, Guys, neither one of them sinned. There's no sin. He said, Neither one of them sinned. This was so that the works of God could be done, so you could write about it, and we can get a spiritual understanding that nobody was blind. He wasn't born in sin. His parents didn't sin, so there wasn't sinners. He just said that they weren't born in sin, so they're not sinners like you think. This was so that the works of God can be done in the dream to wake you up. If you can see it spiritually, there was never a blind man. There was somebody with the wool pulled over their eyes, a con, you know. And so, Mara, once we start entering into a different view, it has to be a different view. We have to turn around, we have to view things the way God sees them. God can only see perfection. If he saw one flaw, that flaw would be eternal. If he saw one flaw in you, you would be eternally damned. And God cannot eternally damn nothing because he's the eternal perfection. So our view has to change. And that's where Moses' tabernacle, me and you'll get into that someday. But when you get to that most holy place, turn around and set down on that mercy seat, and you'll view the world the way he views it. Not us trying to view ourselves getting to God, but you'll rest in something and you'll realize, oh my God, what mercy! How beautiful mercy is, how beautiful grace is, how beautiful the whole picture is to wake mankind up from that. See, Jesus didn't want to fall asleep, Mara. That was that was the one thing he didn't want to do is give up his absolute essence of who of his being. And that's why he suffered in the garden. It wasn't the beating. He knew that beating would last, but it'd be over soon. But man, to give up your essence, to give up your true God self, just so you can go save somebody else, somebody that don't even appreciate it, somebody who will just make up their own God and live outside of you anyway, he knew all that was possible.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

Wow, Roger.

SPEAKER_03 38:09

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

No, this was this is an amazing conversation, and I think it's one that we can take even into the next conversation that we have and go even deeper because I know you've shared some more stuff with me that I think that would be very relevant to this. But in in order now for to enter in, so it's a changing of our views and it's entering into the truth, is the entering into the beingness of who we are. Where on in closing this conversation, what is what can nothing, nothing, nothing, Mara. So when you say nothing, explain that. What is nothing?

SPEAKER_03 38:49

Okay, right. Nothing is no thing. There's nothing you can think, nothing you can do, nothing you can pray about, nothing, nothing. There's nothing, no thing. All you can do is rest. That's it. If you can drop it and just rest, let your mind do what it wants to, just rest. That's it. Just rest and watch it happen because you're already there. You're already there. All of us are already there. He already paid the price, it's a done deal, it is finished. Any attempt that we make, any attempt, anything at all, is kind of like stains on the glass. And going back to Jesus in the garden, and just to say when he was getting, let's say, when he's went through the uh beatings and the crucifixion, Mara slowly but surely he has mind had to be going from the all-knowing Christ, knowing it's like I know, and every stripe was him identifying with us. Every stripe was him identifying with who you are, all your diseases, sicknesses, whatever. Every step he took carrying that cross. And when he fell down under the weight of that, he knew, he knew he was entering duality. He knew he was giving up the ghost, he was giving up his total essence. I believe he accepted it totally in the garden. He accepted his fate. But I don't think he realized it completely until not even the beating, I mean, that was leading there, but moment by moment he knew it was coming. He knew it was coming. I have to enter a blasphemous state. I have to blaspheme, I have to go against the very essence of God to identify with man. I have to enter the sleep and enter the dream. And so, you know, that whole picture we painted about the cross more, that's us. And if we can somehow identify with that, it's just so beautiful when you understand, and you will, and we do, I promise you, because we've never left that pure state. We never have. We were duped, conned, and we probably conned ourselves, you know, that we're in this dream world, and this dream world is not the real world.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

And that's the identification with the outer world, the forgetting of our true essence, forgetting our God nature, forgetting where we came from. And then that's the message of the cross, because the message of the cross, I don't believe that everyone gets what that really truly means. But that's what you're explaining to us here today, Robert. Is the message of the cross is that Christ gave up his union, he became us as us, that's what it means. He became as us, i.e., in our forgotten death, you know, nature, death in our fallen nature, as it's called in the Bible. And he became that fallen nature, and on the cross that was put to death. And every every and it says that the last, you know, the last enemy, he conquered the last enemy, the last enemy was death. So even death is a false idea.

SPEAKER_03 42:08

Yes, yes, and get this death in the Bible is also translated as sleep. So Adam's sleep was put to death. In other words, it's time to wake up, and that's the resurrection. But Mara, this is an all-inclusive understanding for the whole world, even people that don't know the man Jesus or never heard about Christianity. You don't have to be a Christian, you don't have to be a Buddhist, you don't have to be anything, just be. You don't have to be anything. He did it all. And and every organization tries to get followers and try to get you know more people to understand the message. And we brought them bring them right to the pinnacle of truth. But how many of us see the truth?

SPEAKER_00 42:52

Know the truth.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

Know the truth. And he thought he says, when you yes, and when he says you know, when you know the truth, the truth will make you free. See, the truth has always been there, but we haven't known it. And so each one of us has to know it. Well, how do you know something? You just know, you just know you're you're Mara or your female or whatever, whatever you identify. Uh you just know you're you're who you are. You just know you have a deep knowing, you know. And so that's the same thing with this, what we call awakening. It's nothing, it's nothing grander, it's nothing, you know, because we expect boom, awakening. No, no, no. It's it's a slow, gentle, you're we we've been in a deep slumber for thousands of years, all of our ancestors, and they're they're slowly waking up in us as we awake, as we move into this age of awakening, and that's just a word, even that is effort.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

So, back to before we close, no attempt, any attempt is doomed to take us out of who we are. So no attempt, Robert, to do. anything and the message of the cross as Jesus the last words were tetlist tie which means it is done so if someone wants to really fully embrace those words it is done that is the message that's the final that's the final um thing it is done and therefore there's nothing else to be done so to embrace that message please just one more you know nugget before we close because I just would love um for us to really embrace this um you know in its fullness as much as we can before we finish up today so what does it really mean it is done? I know it's done but I am here separate from it is done. So what no attempt what else right and I know even that is such a bad phrasing because what else means something. So no attempt all right I'm gonna tell you just plainly that you've really got to listen and you've got to hear what I'm gonna say okay so just just listen just listen intently for for just a couple of seconds and I'll let you know okay so hold on did you get it yeah that's it Mara that's it nothing nothing just nothing that's all I can tell you just get quiet it's just nothing there's nothing just be quiet that's it that's it just be quiet and let it be uh and even saying let it be is a chore you know what I'm saying you you love how I tricked you right I tricked you that is brilliant that is so good uh forgive me for laughing here but that was just so no I'm glad I'm glad I'm so glad because see that's freedom that's freedom that's joy you got it there's nothing there's nothing if I could just shut up Robert just shut up and let it be just be just be don't even let just be uh oh you got it you got it is a isn't isn't it a wonderful truth it's beautiful that is so good I love the way you ended that I mean you can't get simpler than that Robert I mean that is taking everything that we know that we learned that we tried that we efforted at everything that we've as you say and I want you one day to tell that story about the coat of many colors because you've shared that with me what your revelation on that was but you know ever that coat has to go we have to be yes ma'am strip naked go back to true innocence pure innocence and um I think you you you've really demonstrated that beauty there in the silence as I was thank you it's uh it's a beautiful message and once we start learning it oh emgie the world is going to be set free I'm telling you everybody because we're already we're already free we just gotta just be quiet we are already free thank you so much Robert I love this conversation today it was absolutely amazing so many gems uh so much depth uh things I hadn't heard before we've spoken quite a bit so I am so so thankful for you and for you know being so pure in your message and so honest because I know it goes against a lot of the teachings out there and some of the things tonight that you spoke about today may challenge people and that's okay um because you're not asking anyone you know everyone's free to um take what they can and or they want from this and everyone's journey is different so please just you know listen to to this conversation take from it what you know you believe to be true and what you feel is good and just discard the rest. So this message is just conversation and it's neither right nor wrong and Robert's just sharing what he's learned he's understood and with the pure heart of helping each one of us to tap into that freedom that is ours that we are amen good job thank you so much Robert we will have our next one pretty soon I can't wait for that so bless you and thank you thank you again Mara bye bye bye bye