The Train To Nowhere

This rich and illuminating discussion explores the nature of identity, consciousness, and spiritual awakening through the symbolism of the cross, the idea of awakening from illusion, and the journey beyond the conditioned mind. Robert uses vivid analogies and relatable examples, to help open us up to how much of our human experience is shaped by thought, perception, and deeply ingrained patterns, and why true freedom begins when we stop identifying with the false self created by the mind. He gently guides us into themes of silence, awareness, surrender, and inner peace, encouraging a shift away from struggle, fear, and overthinking toward a deeper sense of clarity and freedom. 

This episode offers a space to pause, look beyond the surface of experience, and reconnect with a deeper awareness that may already be quietly present within. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome back to our fourth episode of the Journey, our Journey to Truth podcast series with Robert Jacks. Robert is here with us again today. And Robert, I just want to invite you right on to get this conversation started.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

All right, I am so ready. Let's do this.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Brilliant. So good. I I'd love to start our conversation today with a few questions that I had from the last podcast that we did. Shall we go there?

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Yes, ma'am. Sounds good.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Okay. So you spoke a lot about the cross, the message of the cross. And one thing you said as I was re-listening to it is to we need to identify with what the cross means, with what the cross did, with what happened, uh, with what Jesus did with that message. And I had the thought, well, that's just an idea. And how can identifying with an idea really help us? Because if it's just an idea in our head and it's not a belief, and even if it's a belief, it still can't help. So how do we move from idea from belief into true identification? And what do you mean we need to identify with the cross? And if for most of us it is just an idea, or for some of us it's a belief, and for others it's uh it's a deep, deep understanding. But how can that truly help us? And then I'd also like to combine that, which I think might be relevant to that question, is that you also said in the last podcast you spoke about that the dream, that it's happening in the dream. So could you elaborate on what you mean by the dream so that the listeners can put all of that into context?

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Uh let's give it a shot. I um yeah, to identify with the cross, and uh the way I'm hearing you answer that or ask that is uh okay, that too is in the dream. So even even the crucifixion had to be part of the dream, it's just a dream, it's not reality. That's kind of what I hear you saying. It's not the reality, it's still part of the dream. And so if it's still part of the dream, then even that can't be like 100% true, because it's part of the dream. If if this is a dream state, so to speak. And it is this uh this is a dream state. There's there's one scripture where Jesus told his disciples, he said, I have many things to tell you, but at this time you're not able to bear it. And uh, so as we're talking, there's things we're gonna talk about. I assure you, the carnal mind, our our dream mind will not be able to bear it. But the more we dive into this, or the more we find our place in silence of rest, uh it's gonna oh, it's just gonna limit eliminate this whole dream. So let's get started on that. The uh let's say we're in a dream state, you know, in the beginning in the Bible itself. So now even the Bible is in the dream, okay? If this is a whole dream, now it says Christ was crucified before the foundation of the world, and we all say he was crucified 2,000 years ago. Well, then that's kind of a contradiction. So was it before the foundation of the world or was it 2,000 years ago? So it's a dream. So it was before the foundation of the world, but when he entered the dream state with us, we you know, being in a time space, we put it down 2,000 years ago. Everything is symbolic, it's a spiritual book in the dream to try to bring us awake. And you know, most of us try to interpret the what's going on in the world with the Bible and the Bible with the world, but what if it's really just a psychological, spiritual book written in the dream beforehand to help us awake and realize it is just a dream? Now, if this is just a dream, then he wrote instructions in there to identify with the death, with the dream and with the dreamer. Now the only way to get out. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Let me ask you now, because I want to get really clear. You said he. When you say he wrote, who is he?

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Well, the Bible, it says that that says that wise men, inspired by the Spirit of God, wrote the Bible. Okay, so to me, the wise men were the men that were awake, little places throughout the you know, dream, like Moses. Uh he wrote, you know, because he wrote the what's called the Torah or whatever, uh, and other people, Paul, Peter, James, whoever, whoever wrote things in the Bible, so to speak, they were wise men inspired by the Spirit of God, okay, or the consciousness of God, or the Christ consciousness, or consciousness itself. So this is this is my take on it. And I like how you put it on the last video that hey, we're not trying to convert anyone, you know. I'm just explaining to you how I'm free and I know I'm free, and if I can help you be free, so be it. And if not, dream on. I that's fine, you know. I mean, um, so if this whole thing is a dream, Mara, and and I, you know, and you awake when you uh when you really identify with the dream and the death, and the death is really asleep, and you're awakening out of the deep sleep, and only one person in the dream um had it all, gave it all up, so that we could come out and have it all. In other words, so we nobody in the dream could actually wake up, even the inspired men, they couldn't fully awake, they had wisdom, knowledge, they had the understanding. Uh, they were awake in the dream still, but they couldn't exogenesis out, they couldn't just zap themselves out. So once we start awakening from the dream, and the only way to awake from the dream is to identify with the scriptures written by holy men, women, inspired by the spirit, who were awake in the dream, and so they left this Bible in the dream for us as well. Now, if we were fully awake, we would be sitting at a table somewhere or just having fun. I told you once before, you and I are probably sitting somewhere in heaven, you know, sipping on tea and eating donuts and talking about our dream characters and how how funny it is, you know, that they're dreaming and they don't know they're dreaming, but we being the enlightened side of the spirit, uh, we understand that. And so in the dream, I'm waking up more and more, and the more I do, the more I am actually free from the dream, and I can see all the dream characters. And uh you're you're you're a genius, and I mean that in a fun way because when I was a kid, you might know I don't know how in your country, but there was this cartoon that came on was the Roadrunner. I remember the Roadrunner. Yeah, beep beep, the Roadrunner, you know. And so the Roadrunner was fast. And see, it reminds me of you. Your mind is fast, you're gone, and but you're the genius. While e coyote, he had a business card and said genius while e-coyote. And that was his his stature. See, that's you also or me. I'm not picking on you, it's all of us. Our mind races out so fast, okay, and it wants to outrun the problem. But the problem is the problem is the genius, and it's creating all these traps. So once it creates all these traps, we can outrun the trap and turn around and look at how we trapped ourselves, think, oh my gosh, you know what I mean? A brick falls on our head. It's like I've set a trap for the fast one, you know. But we can't ever outrun thought because it's not really our thought. Thoughts just come, they're not ours. They're part of what's the collective dream. The collective dream has its own, since it's collective and it's everybody together, there's mass confusion, which you know symbolically represents the sea. And we can get into that in a whole nother conversation. But the sea is represents mass confusion in the Bible, okay? And so our thoughts are so fast, but yet us, the individual, are always setting up these traps. We want to know more, we want to learn more. I want to catch it, I want to understand it, you know. I'm gonna so that's in the dream as well. But anyway, so to once we start awakening from the dream and we realize the whole dream, start to finish, the Bible included, Jesus coming on the cross as well, it is all a dream. It is there's not one ounce of it that is physically true, not one ounce, and that's what's hard for people to talk. I understand, because we've built these idols in our mind that if somebody takes down your tower of babel, who are you? And the word babel literally means psycho babble, basically, and all of us have this babble going on in our brain continually in the dream because of the psycho babble, the uh towers that we have erected in our mind, whether it's you know our tower of Jesus, our tower of Buddha, our tower of our career, our spouse, whatever. But just think about it, what if it is really all dream stuff? And if it's all dream stuff, then the Bible has to be a dream stuff as well, and the and the cross and Jesus coming. But I'm not doubting any of that. We're in this dream, and he came into this dream to wake us out of the dream, and once we awake out of the dream, we can now turn around and see all the dream states and all the dream characters, and it's just a higher well, not higher, maybe, but it's an elevated consciousness. When he, you know, when like in the end of it, when he said the new Jerusalem will come down out of heaven, that new Jerusalem is a new understanding that's gonna come, and it's gonna come down out of heaven, in other words, from higher consciousness into our dream consciousness, and we're basically gonna be awake in the dream and just have heaven here on earth. What else did you ask me?

SPEAKER_00 9:46

So the dream, the dream is uh so you're saying that the whole thing is a dream, so this whole and the dream essentially is the whole thought process, it's everything, it's a mental world. So everything that we we uh project onto the outside comes from within. So what so if you could if you could explain that a little bit more as to how the dream uh traps us, and so that people can see more clearly what that actually means for them personally, because it's nice to stand outside and go, oh, it's all a dream. But now that we're in the dream and we're we can't see clearly because we don't know we're in a dream, how can people in their day-to-day life sort of bring that idea into their own consciousness that they can maybe begin to see that perhaps that what they're thinking, how they're thinking, what they feel about certain situations, that actually it's may not be as real as they feel it is because that's the trap. We're all trapped in our own thoughts, in our own thinking, in our own ideas, in mass consciousness, and it's very hard to see your way out. So, this idea that it's a dream is a very relevant, um it's very relevant to waking up. It's so relevant because when you're in it, you really don't know. So we can talk about it and it sounds great, but then it's an it's a concept, but we have to be aware that we're dreaming. So, how can one begin to understand that for someone who might only be hearing this for the first time, Robert?

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Right. I think uh okay, remember everything is dualistic, okay? Just like when Jesus said, Take off my body, this is my body, eat my body, eat my flesh, and drink my blood, and that day so many people left him, they're like, We are not eating that man's flesh and his blood. Now, that's dream material, and that's their dream mind. He had a spiritual meaning, and we know that now. You know, we're talking about eat eat the spiritual side of life. So when God created everything, heaven and earth, everything, it wasn't physical. God didn't create anything physical. There's nothing physical that God created. God created man in his likeness and his image, the first man Adam. And what he did, and he put Adam to sleep, immediately, Adam, with all this wisdom and knowledge of God, the first man who knew everything, it's like the firstborn son, he got the inheritance, and immediately he went out and splurged it. He took all this power and wisdom God gave him, and the first thing he did was went and created his own world, his own universe, and everything's beautiful: trees, birds, plants, grass, everything's beautiful, humans, but it's created in an image, it's not the real, it's an image of the real because he has the spiritual wisdom and knowledge, even though he's sleeping and he's dreaming this. We are, and if it's a dream, then we were never born. And if you're never born, you can never die. And the Bible says we were with him before the foundation of the world. And where are we going to be if this body dies? Well, we're with him after the foundation of the world, so everything in between that little dash on our tombstone when we die, born in 1990, say 1900, died in you know 2000 or whatever, that little dash between them, that's the lifespan of the dream that you were in. But when you come out of the dream, and especially like right now, we're really we're learning how to wake up out of the dream. We realize there's a dual nature. The sleeping nature is always kicking the ball, like a little child walks up to a ball and kicks it, and it goes further. And it always kicks that ball and it never hardly ever gets the ball. And so in the dream, we're always searching for more, looking for more. We can't think, I promise you, the the carnal mind cannot comprehend and understand spiritual concepts. It's impossible. It does not have the it does not have the faculties. So if you look at this as two, the real world, the of the what we would call reality, is a spiritual, awakened reality. That's the real world. The dream world is this fleshly physical world that we're trying to figure out, that we're living in, that we're suffering in. And that's why I was saying that is the miserable state of mankind. And it really is a blasphemous state because we are in this dream. But in truth, we're not in this dream, you're never in a dream. When you have a dream at night and you dream all the characters, whether they're good and they have a happy life and rich, powerful, whatever, and let's just say you're in there, and then all of a sudden the guy he loves his wife and kids, but yet they get burnt up in a fire, they die, and his body's all burnt up, and now you're sad and you're crying in your dream. But as soon as you wake up, you're like, Oh my god, I'm so glad that was a dream, it was a nightmare. Well, what happens to those dream characters, Mara? They disappear. Because why? Because they were never real. They were never, he was dreaming, they were never real. And see, once we start awaking spiritually, we realized this dream was never real, our praise and worship was never real. Our you know, everything we did, the food we ate, the pain we suffered, it was all a dream. But and then scripture even says, Wake up, oh sleeper, wake up, you know. All through there, he's trying to get us awake. And now, if we can go back, and just what's so beautiful about it, we can go back from the beginning of the Bible, man, woman, snake in the garden, go through the whole Bible at the end of the Bible. Now everybody's fully mature. It's a man, woman, and a dragon, that old serpent called the devil. Okay, and but he's gonna be cast out for a thousand years in a bottomless pit, all dream stuff, okay. But it's symbolic of what's going on in the heavens. See, Adam's dreaming, he's getting spiritual information because the spiritual side's awake. But while he's in the dream, all the dream stuff is trying to form and stuff. That's why there's beautiful birds, plants, and all that. They are not real, they're an imitation of what's real, because the real tree standing over there is so beautiful and elegant in heaven, we can't explain it. But it's a tree in heaven, but it's not really a tree. That's what we named it because we don't know what it is, and there's nothing from heaven that we can name. So Adam had to name everything, even every animal, because he's that wise, and when he named something, he gave it its nature because the spiritual side of him is asleep, all wisdom, all knowing is still there, still present. The dreamer, Adam, okay, is still asleep, but he has all this wisdom and spiritual knowledge on the outside of the dream, and so we see this creation, and we're somehow or another. That's why I say I don't know exactly how we fell into the dream. I got a theory on that, and I don't think people are gonna like it, but it's a theory, okay. So just don't take this to the bank. The Bible talks about a third of heaven rebelled against God, a third of heaven, and Lucifer. This this guy, and Lucifer basically meant um oh heck, what did it mean? The the son of light, or the oh, I forgot the term. It's really cool, too. But anyway, so Lucifer falls, right? And he takes a third of heaven with him. And the Bible is so big on thirds. We have outer court, holy place, most holy place. Uh children, young men, fathers, virgin, concubine, bride, feast of Passover, feast of Pentecost, feast of tabernacle. And you can go through the whole Bible, and these thirds are everywhere 30, 60, 100fold. Well, the sleeping man to me is the fallen man that fell from heaven with this guy called Lucifer, right? Which is the morning star, the morning light, or the light of God that had fallen, a third. And I don't think it's a fall, like uh, you know, we fell from grace, and that's what they say fell from grace. I think it's a falling into the sleep, and and you fall into a solidified state called atoms. Atoms, okay, and so it's what called atom, but it you know, and it might be at dumb and atoms because everything in the dream is made of light, according to our greatest minds in the world. The greatest minds in the world say everything's atoms, everything. So if we get to that, we say everything's atoms, you're sitting on a table or sitting at a bench at a table. That bench is made of atoms, you're made of atoms, the table's made of atoms, your plate of food is made of atoms. You take a fork and a knife and you cut up a bunch of atoms and you eat a bunch of atoms, and everything's made up of atoms. Can you see that?

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Yes, that is interesting. So you you're bringing a kind of a little correlation there between atom and atom.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Right, right. Now let's go a little more on this because I it's just a theory, it's just something I understand. Okay, now so you get this, you know, you're eating a plate of atoms, you're made of atoms, you go to a doctor made of atoms, you got a cancer called atoms, he takes a scalpel and digs into the atoms, and he cuts out the atoms, which is called cancer, because you got to name everything. The mind that that you know, wildly coyote is a genius, he's got to name everything, you know. So, so you cut into there, now you're cutting out a bunch of atoms, and the smartest minds in the world, that's the greatest thing they can come up with. And now they're saying, Oh, it's it's a quantum field. Well, okay, that's that's another good name for consciousness. There's a field of consciousness, absolutely, and we're trying to figure out what it is. And in the Bible, 2,000 years ago, he put the dream man to sleep and said, Wake up into consciousness, and you'll realize the whole thing is just a world of fallen atoms, they fell into solidity, it's something solid, and they're not real. Scientists will tell you they're not even real, they're just blinking lights. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Yes, and actually, you know, it's it's been said that we're we're from the stars, we're stardust, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Yes, because everything is made of the same stuff. So there's star seeds, stardust, all those are just man's made terms to think they're special because they're in the dream, and I'm a stardust. No, you're a dreamer. But but while you're in the dream, okay, you have infinite wisdom and knowledge that's awake, sending you signals into the dream, and so you can you you have all this wisdom and knowledge, but you don't know it, you're a dreamer, and you don't even know where this wisdom and knowledge is coming from because you're asleep, but it's coming from the one source, there's only one, and it's consciousness. So, and I was telling you a while back, if people see UFOs, flying saucers, and aliens, and they see Bigfoot and they see all these things, it's okay. They're all in consciousness, they exist, yes, they exist in your dream mind, and they may exist in consciousness. Whether they do or whether they don't, it's irrelevant. There's only one consciousness, and nothing is outside of consciousness, nothing. So consciousness being the awakened state, and all this stuff that we're discussing and going through is the dream state.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Yes, and then consciousness, just to clarify, is are you um consciousness and God being the one thing? The same?

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Yes, yes, that's yeah, he says there's one faith, one God, you know, here, O Israel, their Lord thy God is one. There's one God, one faith, one hope, one baptism, one life. It's all just one. Now, but you can't explain one without using duality. You just can't, it's impossible for the human mind to comprehend. So you take duality, you got the space and you got the stars. You would not know what the space was without the stars. Because the space divine, the space divine, they they're they give you distance and they give you measurement and they give you time, okay? But without space, you wouldn't know what solids are because it would all be one conglomerate something, which they call the atom, once again, because they don't know, they can't, their science won't prove it, you know. But just think if you Took the space out of everything, out of this truck, out of your body, out of my body, out of the sky, out of the earth, it would all go back to one big clump of nothing because there's no space. And so you couldn't identify it and say it's one, you wouldn't have nothing to compare it to. And so space and the things in space are one. They're one. They're not separate. They're one. The dreamer and the dreamed are one. There, you cannot separate the dreamer from the dream. That's true. And so what we're doing, what I think, that's what I say, we are going to dream to the point we wake up in the dream and then we can lay it down and pick it up. It's kind of like I'd like to explain it like this. Okay, think about a train ride. When you're born, let's just say everybody's born in this train, no matter what, it's a train. And in that train is every boxcar the world has ever known. Everything's in the train. And uh you're so it's a long, long train on the long, long journey. And so everybody's in that train from their from their birth. And so you can go to different boxcars, and this boxcar is a really nasty neighborhood. Well, you don't go there, they're they're mean and they're evil. And you go to this other boxcar, and it's all you know, people having fun and smoking and drinking and all that, and you enjoy that for a while, maybe. And then you go to a different boxcar, and then you get to a boxcar where there's this religion or a different religion or different religion. And so you settle down in there. Well, when you settle down in that boxcar, it's big enough for everybody to live, everybody to understand, and and all this. And your wise men there are teaching about, yeah, one day this train's getting the end, and when it does, you're gonna be in heaven. You know, one of the wise men said, I know the way, and another wise man came along and said, Well, I found the way. Well, the wisest man came along and said, Well, I am the way. Okay, and so we're all in this big long train on this big long journey, and you can see out the windows, windows of our eyes, we can see everything out there, but we're inside this train. And they say, Okay, when you die, you get to go out there, you get to go to heaven, you get to go enjoy it all. And the only thing is, the master says, comes and wakes us up, says, Well, there's no death, all you have to do is get off the train. But they're like, No, no, no, no, you don't understand. We've been on this train, our every generation has been on this train. And so the train gets to its basically what we call its final stop. One man gets off, and the rest stays on there, and the train keeps going because it's an eternal train. It goes all the way around the mountain, and now this guy's awake, he's off the train. Okay, but it goes all the way out into space, all the way around the mountain, it comes back. But when it circles, it's an eternal circle. So when that train comes back, all of a sudden you start a whole new life. You don't know it. Now you're born in this train and you're raised in this train, and you're kept in this train, and you're taught in this train by some of the wisest people that ever lived, but now you might be in the 1500s, or you might you might be anywhere in time. Every time you're born, you could be anywhere in time, you could be in the 31st century or back in the first century because you're still on the train and you died on the train, you didn't wake up, so you couldn't exit the train. That's just kind of how the dream is. The only way to exit the dream is to wake up on the train and realize I'm gonna step out, I'm gonna step out. But we're not ready for that. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

I just I'm trying to hold back the laughter here because I've never heard it described like that before. I mean, that is absolutely an amazing analogy. I mean, from Roadrunner at the beginning, which also was amazing, to this train. I mean, you've just painted such an amazing picture that actually is quite hilarious to contemplate that. Um, but that is so good. And then as you were speaking, actually, and I I'll bring this in here because it occurred to me as you were speaking, um, you know, we started our very first podcast with your story.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

And here we are on our fourth podcast, and you've kind of taken, you know, you were the man in anguish in the first podcast, but you went from there to this understanding. And when you talk about the divine wisdom, the spiritual knowledge that's inside of us, when we wake up, all of that spiritual um knowledge is already there. So, you know, yes, that's that's it's it's such an amazing journey because it's not that you're different to me, and it's not that somebody's better than somebody else, it's that you've got off the train.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Yes, yes, I like that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

So you've stepped off the train, and in stepping off the train and waking up in the train, let's say, let's say you've woken up in the train. I I'm I don't know if you've stepped off the train, you can clarify that, but yeah, you've woken up in the train, and now you see clearly. Now you're you can see everything. So it's not that you became better, it's not that you um suddenly became wiser than all the wise men, it's just that you saw clearly, suddenly who you who you were was no longer the dream character, you were your your true self, your your original, your origin.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Right. And see, there are no real real wise men. Go ahead and ask your question. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Yeah, no, no, that's not that's so that's really it. I it just occurred to me that that shift from where we began with our podcast to where we are now, the shift you know, is is in you. You can now tell these beautiful stories with such conviction and with such knowing because you have woken up in the train. And that so if you could kind of give us a little bit of an insight into what happens when you wake up and how the perception shifts, and that because you in the in the last podcast, we talked about having to do nothing and that anything that we do takes us away. So, can you bring that together for us as well? So we have a deeper, more understanding of that the dream really is a dream, and there's nothing to become, there's nowhere to go, it's just all about waking up.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Yeah, let's think about it for a minute. So, if Jesus in the dream, and I I I understand, I believe it 100%, he is my Lord, my savior, my God, the way the one that wakes us. But he said, I must go away. That the comforter will come to you. Now let's just say that comforter is Christ awareness or Christ consciousness. See, it says Jesus is like, if I stay here, you guys are gonna worship me and you're gonna make me a ruler and a king. And that's what you're that's what they wanted to do. It said they wanted a king, they wanted to make him a king and a ruler over their people because they they wanted a messiah and they don't know it, but they wanted a way to wake up, they wanted to get out of the dream. So the messiah in the dream, our Lord, our savior, whatever you want to call him, to me, that's he's the most precious being that ever came into the dream. But at the same time, we are that being so I can identify with anybody. They are the Christ, they're just probably still asleep. Um I lost myself there. Get back. What was your question again?

SPEAKER_00 28:55

We were talking about the waking up and the shift from where you began to where you are now and what that awakening process is.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Yes, yes. Okay, now for me, and you know, I'll kind of give you guys a basics of my journey because it's everybody's same journey. I'm telling you, history, history is false for one thing. It's only written from the point of view of the person writing history. Okay, and at that point in time, that person can write all the truth they want, but it's only that little square, that little dot in history from that person's point of view. And if that person's mind is what if he's the evil person or you know, whoever, what if he's the victor of a battle? You know, what if you're the loser of the battle and you write history from that view? So it's only from the view of that one person writing history. Now, history is true, according to the writers, but it's changed so much over the years that at this day and age we got so much information we cannot determine what is actually real in history. The only thing real about history that we can absolutely learn in the dream history is that every one of the patterns, the patterns are repeatable. And so that's why they say we can learn from history. We can learn from the patterns, not from what the people said as much as the patterns of what they're saying. Wars, rumors of wars, you know, everything that mankind does, they've been doing it ever since the dream began. The first two guys, the first two sons killed each other, you know, one of them killed the other, you know, right from the very beginning, you know, brother against brother, killing each other, you know. Um, so so the awakening comes, okay, to me. As you progress on this journey, and we seek and we seek and we seek, and he said, seek ye first the kingdom of God, his righteousness. And I had such a drive inside of me, such a thirst. I had to figure this out. What is it? What is it? And that's where Joel S. Goldsmith's helping teachings help me. Because I listened to him, I mean, for five years now, probably, and every night, all night long, while I'm driving, I have a different audio on. Then I bought 15 of his 20, 30 books. I've read it, read them and devoured them and read them again sometimes. And it started awakening inside of me. And I really realize as it's happening, the more and more you stop seeking because you saw it, you got it all, you got all the information of personal need. We got it all. Okay. But until you're ready to die to self, get rid of your religious mind, get rid of everything you've learned now. You've learned it, brought you to the pinnacle. Now it's time to just die to it, let it go, let it go, period. All of it. I don't care, I can't quote with the Bible anymore, and I'm okay with that because I used to quote it, you know, like everybody else, and that was my guide. And everything, nothing wrong with that. I love it, and it's good to know. But it became in my idol. I and so I quit using the Bible as much in other books because I it was it kept me in a train of thought I couldn't get past. Now, this is what he this is what inside of me one day. I was like, well, okay, seek, seek, seek. And so I had to go look up that word seek because I'm a I'm a looker, I look at all the words I can, and it don't just mean look, okay, like hide and seek. I was thinking hide and seek. I'm trying to find that kid or find my keys, and I'm seeking and seeking and seeking, and then something inside me said, Well, if you're looking for something, you're looking from something. I was like, holy crap. And it was like, change your view, quit looking for and look from, and you'll find what you're looking for.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

You know, that's so interesting that you said that because that reminded me of a dream I was having actually about a week ago. And I was in the dream. Yeah, no, I I can't remember what the dream was, but I remember that in the dream, I was the I was the the character in the dream, but something in the dream said to me, if you're the character in the dream, who's the one looking at the character? And I realized then that the character couldn't see the one looking, but the one looking could see me, could see me the character in the dream. And that just reminded me of that. So, yes, there's something there's something looking, and the one that's looking can see the dream character, but the dream character can only see um can't see what's in the dream, yeah. Like the eyes can't see the eyes, the eyes can't see themselves, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Yes, now see that's like in the dream, you will never ever ever ever see your own face. Ever. You don't even know what you look like. You look in a mirror and you're seeing an image. You'll never see your own face, nobody. Yes, yes, and so we see an image and we're projecting an image. And science today says no two people see the same person ever. Because your view of me, if I look at you and your sister looks at you at the same time, I'm seeing a different Mara than she is because of my upbringing, my belief system, and all that. I could see flaws, she could see beauty, or vice versa. Yeah, because it depends on what's inside of me. You see what I'm saying? So I will view you totally different according to my flawed stained understanding or my pure understanding, either way, in between. But you, the person in the dream, will never see themselves. They it's impossible, they can't. All they can ever see is a reflection. Yep, and what a and a reflection, Mara, is never real, it's called an image. Yes, and man was created in the image of God, in the mind of God, man was created in the image of God, not in the image, it's just an image. We this dream is an image world, it's an image world, an imagination or so to speak, world. And once we start awaking from the dream, the dream characters fade away. Sometimes we're like, oh my god, I'm glad because if it was a nightmare, you know, and other times it's like, well man, I like that dream, I keep on dreaming. Uh, but either way, the characters in the dream fade.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

And then to wake up from the dream is to wake up from the false sense of self because there is no self, there is no self-like just like the you can never see yourself. There actually is no self, it is a whole set of ideas.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

And that's what you say. And see, I think it was the Buddhas that it's all Maya mind. Maya, he was awake, he under he he understood, he was awake, he saw it, and he had you know, I like I sort of said all the seers and sages that wrote these beautiful words of wisdom for us came from the awaked part of their being, and it entered into their dream being, and they wrote about it. But then when we write read it in the dream, we try to interpret it with a dream mind with dream words written in dream books, and we don't understand the spiritual meaning behind it because we don't have a spiritual interpretation. We have the letter of the word which killeth, but the spirit of the word bringeth life. The whole word of God to me is a spiritual book and not a physical book, although the physical dramas explain the spiritual world, but there's no translation. You cannot take what's in heaven and bring it to earth. And I want to throw this out there too, because it's gonna make a lot of people mad. In the church world, they say, I bind you, Satan, I bind you off of that person. Well, no, no, no. He said, What you bind on earth is bound in heaven. Well, I assure you, there's no Satan in heaven. You know, I I loose you from that person. Well, there's no there's no demon to loose, so if it ain't loosed on hell earth, how is it loosed in heaven? Okay, so once again, the dreamer with all this misinformation thinks they're fighting some devil. When the master already said he bound the devil, he said he defeated hell, death, and the grave, and he stripped Satan of all of his authority. Okay, but we don't know that. But it's there's there's never been anything to fight, but we're brought up on the train with everything in line to train us to keep us in line, keep us dreaming. You know, you can go from boxcar to boxcar, get all the information you want that's in that boxcar, and you can get all the information you want, but it's still dream information written by all the wise men who came. But at the in the end, it's still just a dream, and you're still on a train going nowhere. On a train, bound for nowhere.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

The train to nowhere, you're on the train, Robert. Right, you you then understand that you are looking that word seek, you understood that you were looking from something, and instead of looking at something. So, how did that change your position on that train?

SPEAKER_01 37:31

Right. So, as as I started getting, you know, well, I don't know if it's enlightenment, waking up, whatever it there's just words, but my view changed when I turned around. So I started seeing from a whole different perspective, and to me, it's an awakened perspective, and so we quit seeking to get there or get to God or to get awakening, and our view has to change, and we rest in what we call the silence or the knowing or just the peace of it all, and we start viewing from his point of view, from the enlightened, awakened point of view, and then you're really able to see this is just a dream with a bunch of dream characters, and that's why it's funny sometimes to just people watch, you know, because uh people do the silliest things, you know, and they got videos everywhere about that. But um, so you have to view or have to. We learn to view our view has to be not on this world, it has to be a silent view, it's a little quick little scenario. I'm selling some property, and there's all kinds of problems, you know, with the paperwork. And my mind's like, Well, I need to figure this, figure, figure this out. And I'm like, No, no, no. I said, That's a worldly view. I'll just let peace happen. You know, it don't matter. I don't care if I sell it or do sell it and get the right amount, and it doesn't I gotta get out of my mind, that don't matter. And so I'm sitting in the peace and setting in the silent, and all of a sudden I get a couple of phone calls from the people we're dealing with, and things basically solve themselves. Because my view changed. If I'd have kept the other view, I would have kept putting up the veil and having to struggle, I'd be the coyote making a trap for myself, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

Yeah, it sure does. So you're saying that when you see from the wrong view, so you're looking out instead of looking from, you're looking at, believing it's real, and you truly are immersed in the dream now at this point. So, in the scenario you just spoke about, it's all very um complicated, there are problems coming up, so you engage, you believe, and then of course you act, react, perceive from that uh from that view. But when you go back and you go into the the peace and the silence and you understand, because your mind's always going to try and pop in there, even because you that's the way we've been programmed for so long. So even after you have the spiritual understanding, you can still have this mind coming in, telling you what's what, and and uh you know, choosing to perceive from a particular point of view. So you have to, in a way, understand that that's just happening and override it. And when you do, you're saying that things can just instead of trying to make something happen, it happens according to your seeing it the way you see it, or the silence, or the knowing that you're looking at it from, and then it just it tends to work out you know, seamlessly.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

Right, yeah. So, this is my view on it. Because yes, any moment you can go right back into the dream state and think and think think because it's a never-ending story, it's a it's a never-ending drama. You could be right there and and and create all the problems, be with all the problems, or this is how I see it. Immediately, when you're aware of that, say, oh, oh, okay, and get back in what I call awareness. So I become and this is how I do it. Immediately, I say, Oh, oh, god, that's my that's my dream mind. And uh, I go back and I see the pure consciousness outside me and the pure consciousness inside me, and I look through that glass in awareness. So there's no problem, there's no house to sell, there's no land, there's no paperwork, there's only an awareness of the emptiness, which is the all. Just because it's empty to us, I promise you, this heavenly state is all wisdom, all knowledge, all everything. And so when I get out of the mental state, guess what? It's the added thing. I already know what you desire and need, son. It's my it's the father's good pleasure to give it to you, you know. And so when he says, seek ye first the kingdom of God, his righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you, he was seeing basically, once you get to this point, just stop and quit seeking to look for it, but look from it, because that word seek also means to observe.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

Very good. That must be a beautiful place to you've been there many, you've been there many times.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

I've heard it in your voice.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

No, I think we all have, I think we have all got moments of clarity, and but the you know, the mesmerism is so strong, and until it's pointed out, it and it it almost can't be seen, because the one that believes itself to be real is never going to uh wake itself up because it can't, and that's I think what you mean. We let's go back to my very, very first question, you know, the idea of the cross, because the one who sees itself um as real and who is in the dream and is the dream character, that one can never wake itself up. It needs something outside of itself in the dream to point to what's true, and this is the the idea of the cross, this is the message of the cross that it's actually already done, and something inside of you not just believes that, but actually, because you have all spiritual words within you, you know it to be true, and when you know it to be true, then you can let go and step yeah, let go of the dream character, disengage a little bit more, understand the dynamic that's going on, the patterns that are forming your world, and as you say, go back into that stillness, into that silence, into that place where it is already done, and and instead of seeking, you now observe, and in that observation you become the true self, who you already were.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Yes, ma'am, I got it.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

The place you never left.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

Right. Because you can see the dreamer, you can see the character, you know, your observer, you're the observer now.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Yes, yeah. That's beautiful. So I think we I think we had a good one, a good conversation today, too, Robert. It's it's an interesting, it's an it you brought up some beautiful analogies. I really, really Loved analogy of the train. It was so clear and so descriptive. It's it could be again, as we say, a difficult uh thing for many people to grasp if they've never heard the idea of the dream before. So, what would you say to someone, you know, who may just listen to this and this whole idea of the dream, it hasn't ever been presented to them before, so they're hearing it for the first time. That could be a little bit challenging.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

Uh yeah, as far as someone who's never like into spiritual stuff, uh it's even tougher. That's why he said, I got things to say that you can't bear. Um, but if they continue to listen to these podcasts, we are gonna take you all the way into the throne. Anyone that wants to go, I can show you the way. And I promise you, uh, you must be born again. And I really want to get into that.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

Well, that sounds like a good start for our next conversation, Robert. So thank you so very much for today. Really, really thrilled that we covered this ground. It was certainly very helpful for me. I I'm I I I do like to be the one that is sitting in in, you know, in for the audience that's asking the questions that maybe others might be asking, not just only for myself, but for others as well, because I do know just for myself how long I've been searching and the struggles I've had in trying to understand this. And you very clearly said it to me in the last podcast, there's nothing to do, and that's almost the hardest thing is to stop being the roadrunner trying to outwit myself.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

Yes, yeah, yeah. That's so that's a good analogy.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

Yes, it was brilliant. It's a brilliant, I mean, that's you're the genius. That wisdom that you've got is the genius because you can really paint those pictures, and it makes it very clear. So I am so again very appreciative of your your wisdom, your knowledge, sharing it with us here and being very transparent and going, you know, going to brave places. So on our fourth podcast, I didn't think we'd be going into this depth, but we're here. It's obviously people are ready to hear it. I'm uh excited for the next one as well, as always. And thank you for today, Robert.

SPEAKER_01 46:11

Thank you, Maura. Bye bye.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

Bye bye, see you next time.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

All right, bye bye.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Bye.