The Ladder of Awareness

This episode explores the timeless symbolism of Jacob's Ladder as a powerful metaphor for spiritual awakening, inner transformation, and our connection to higher consciousness. This conversations reflect on the journey from unconscious living to conscious awareness, examining how moments of revelation can gently shift our understanding of ourselves and the world around us.

We discuss the inner struggle between old patterns and emerging truth, the significance of spiritual "downloads" and quiet insights, and how wisdom often arrives through stillness rather than effort. Drawing on symbolic interpretations of ancient teachings, this episode invites our listeners to consider the messages that are always available within—waiting to be noticed through presence, silence, and surrender.

Whether you're navigating challenges, seeking deeper meaning, or simply curious about the nature of spiritual growth, this conversation offers encouragement, inspiration, and practical insights for your own journey. A reminder that transformation is not about becoming someone new, but awakening to what has been there all along.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Hello and welcome to our Journey to Truth podcast. I'm Laura Jennings and I'm your host for this program. We are back again today with another episode and another conversation with Robert Jacks. Welcome Robert.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Hello, Maura.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Robert, it's just wonderful to be here with you again today. And we've had some truly wonderful conversations so far. And I really believe that today is going to be no different.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Well, I just want to say first off, it's always an honor and a pleasure to just talk to you and get these things going. It's just, it excites me. It gets me happy. I just love your conversations. And I want to tell you that I did get several people talking about our last podcast about being lifted up or born from above, so to speak. And they uh, you know, you'll probably remember the part where we talked about like if your mind gets in trouble or whatever, just try to think of a connection between you and the higher consciousness, you know, whether it's a string or and we went through that like a string or maybe a hose, or then eventually it grows into a light. And uh I've had people tell me that their consciousness was actually being raised, they felt it and they they called me to let me know, you know, that oh my gosh, my consciousness is growing, just listening to that, and I get it now, being born from above. And so I just want to tell you that that's that's kind of like fruit for us. I just I love it. I love that anyone can hear it and understand it. And uh, so I kind of wanted to add a scripture to that, so it could kind of for the people that do understand scripture, that uh this would kind of tie it together for those folks. And I know you've probably heard the story of Jacob's ladder um in the in the Bible, and a lot of people have, and some people do, and do not really know the story, or they you know, they just oh Jacob's ladder. Well, um, it's it is about Jacob, which was um Abraham's Isaac, and then Jacob, his his son. And Jacob was out and he he had this dream, and what he did is he went out, he left his father's place, and then he went out um into the desert, so to speak, and he laid down to take a nap, and he put this rock under his head. And as he fell asleep on the rock, he seen this stairway to heaven. It wasn't actually called a ladder, it was a stairway in the beginning, but he saw this stairway, and standing at the very top of the stairway was the presence of the Lord. And he saw angels ascending and descending upon the stairway. And I just wanted to point out that that is what I was talking about with you and I. Our last uh podcast was about the uh being aware of this connection between us and higher consciousness. You know, whether it's a string or a stairway or light, just any, and it's not out there, it's within us, but it is in a higher elevated state. And of course, God, the Father, Holy Spirit, Jesus, whatever you want to call it, Christ consciousness, is at the top of that stairway. And the reason I wanted to bring this up, Mara, was because the symbolism, it's a man asleep. I remember I was telling you this is really a dream state, but it's a man asleep, and while he was asleep, his head was on the rock. And in Christian circles, they always say Jesus is the rock, you know what I mean? And Christ is the rock. And it is true, and a rock is just another symbolic meaning of something even far deeper. Uh, but think about that the man asleep. And while he was asleep, his consciousness was raised, and at the top of the consciousness was the presence of the Lord. And then angels, us sending and descending, angels are messengers. And if they're messengers, what are they doing? They're bringing a message. So us being aware of that connection, you know, whether it's a string or a hose or a light or a stairway, if our kind, if we're consciously aware that we are dreaming or in a dream state, you only have to think about that, but just think about the connection, Maura. And the angels are constantly ascending and descending. It's kind of like our prayers are constantly going up, and the messages or the uh maybe the return of an answered prayer could be one of the messages coming out of the stairway or out of the presence of God. But it's really about being aware of consciousness, being aware of the higher activity that's going on inside of us. That's a conscious awareness of the silence and embracing that long enough to where you could actually have one of those angels or one of those messages come through for you. And I kind of wanted to start right there. Is that okay to throw that out there?

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Yes, no, I heard that story of Jacob's ladder. I don't haven't uh delved into the meaning of it. Can you give us a little bit of a context as to where Jacob was, what he was doing, and what you know, and for him and those messages when he fell asleep on the rock? And so, how did it fit into his life? And then perhaps taking that as to how we can apply that to our life as well.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Yeah, yeah. Um okay, so Jacob actually he was uh, you know, let's call it the grand stairway or Jacob's ladder. Um, he was he was actually leaving a place where his father Abraham has was from, um, and then he was traveling across the desert. Now that where his father was from, uh, let me think if I can uh oh Beersheba. And uh so Beersheba was uh the place of basically what's called seven covenants or a covenant with God. It's because Abraham had a covenant. Now, this is his grandfather, it was Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. Okay, so Jacob was the grandson. And back then, you know, a lot of people probably didn't read and write a bunch of stuff, so these are stories. And could you imagine your grandfather telling you a story? Hey, I met God and he had a covenant with me, and all this. That's kind of the situation. But he was leaving that place of his grandfather, and uh, and he and and he set out from the town. The town was uh it was a town called High Place or a crossroads, and their name for that was Haran, H A or R A N, I believe it was. So, but he was think about the symbolism. He's leaving his grandfather's place where his grandfather got a covenant from God, because God promised Abraham, you know, you'll be the father of many nations. And then he's leaving a high place, a high state of consciousness, a high understanding that his grandpa taught him. But he's in a crossroads. He's leaving a crossroads, he's he's probably pondering this, walking out in the desert, you know, going wherever he's going. And he's just gets tired and he lays down and takes the nap. And so as he takes the nap, he has that dream, you know, some very symbolic of us, the dreaming man, in the in a desert place or wherever we're going. And we can understand, you know, certain things like, oh, well, yeah, my grandfather had a covenant, but what good is that for me? I don't know what the guy was thinking, but that's kind of what I'd be thinking. You know, be thinking, well, how's that going to play out? You know, you promised our grandfather, he's gonna be the father of many nations, and this and that. So while his head was a rest on the rock, and he was actually asleep, right? And then he saw those uh angels ascending and uh descending and the Lord standing above it. And the Lord said, I am the Lord, the Lord, the God of your father Abraham, and God of Isaac. And what's really cool about this to me, Mara, is uh as he dreamed all of this, and when he woke up, he's like, Oh, this is none other than Bethel, which means the house of God. He's like, This is none other than the house of God, because I just had this wonderful dream, vision, and the messages were just coming and flowing out of higher consciousness to lower consciousness into me. And uh, and he thought to himself, surely, oh my gosh, surely this is the place of God, the house of God. And then he says, I was not even aware of it. Think about that. In this dream, we're not even aware of it, Mara. Uh, you know what I mean? We're not even aware that the consciousness of God has elevated us and is and is bringing messages to us 24-7. It's always there, it's always available. But how often are we aware of it? And that's the immediate, that's the first thing he said when he woke up. I wasn't even aware of it.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

I love that. Yeah, that makes so much sense because we're never ever disconnected, but where our attention is, is not always in the right place. So we get distracted. And as you you've always said to me, Robert, that everything's a distraction, and it is, until you know where you're seated, and and when you do get that connection, when something does come through that's undeniable, that's when you know, and you go, Oh my goodness, that's been there all along. And this I can imagine him saying that. This is indeed the house of the Lord, so that really resonates with me because I've had that experience where I've gone, oh, did I miss this my whole entire life? And then one moment you get something, and that feels so real that it is undeniable. So, yeah, that that really does resonate completely.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Yeah, and that's what's beautiful about this. This, you know, little scenarios. He didn't, he he he came to the realization it's in me, it's right here. That dream was in me, it wasn't out there. And he's like, Oh my god, in other words, I am the house of God. And then he said, uh, he goes, uh it said something like oh, he goes, Oh, and he was sore afraid, he was so afraid, and he said, With he said, How awesome is this place. This is none other than the house of God and the gate to heaven. Well, where was he talking about? He's talking about inside of him, and that word afraid, and this is where a lot of people mess up because they think, oh, you got to be afraid of God. Well, that doesn't mean afraid, like when uh in the book of um wisdom, it says the beginning of all wisdom is the fear of God. And see, that word fear doesn't mean to be afraid, it means to respect and honor, just like electricity. We're not afraid of electricity, we can be, but we respect it and we honor it because we know it can kill us or it can cook for us, you know, or heat our water. Uh, it's a it's a word called respect and honor and reverence. It's not afraid. And when they interpret it, they put the word afraid in there. He was afraid, but no, he was in such a reverence and respect that this revelation just came inside of me. That right above me, inside me, now it's not out there, but in my consciousness is the is the Lord standing, sending those messages up and down that that that stairway. You know, that they call that a ladder, but it was it actually said stairway. Um, and that's what's beautiful is we don't have to fear God, but it does bring an awe and a reverence and a respect. You're like, oh my gosh, I don't have to go anywhere to get this. You know, I don't have to go to a church or a synagogue, I don't have to go to a high mountain or a low place. No matter where I go, it's there because it's within me. It is that I am presence within us. And uh I just kind of wanted to connect that to our last podcast so that people would be aware. I'm not just making up, hey, you just need to have this, you know, string theory where you're connected to the higher consciousness. No, we are, and that was Jake, that was Jacob's vision, his dream, and then his awaking right out of the dream as soon as he woke up, and he said, I wasn't even aware. Isn't that neat?

SPEAKER_00 11:30

And then just what happened with Jacob, just to so we can expand on the story to make it more relevant to ourselves. So when Jacob he had that realization, he had the awe, the fear of the Lord, he had the understanding, but then did something happen for him? So, what is the rest of the story? Can you elaborate on that to bring context?

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Yeah, we can go a little bit. Um, see, Jacob, like I said, it was Abraham's seed, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and then Jacob is the one who um wrestled with God. He had he was in another place and he wrestled with God, but first he went out and he got married, and he had to work for this guy, Laman, his father-in-law, and to marry two wives. He the one he wanted to marry, his father deceived him. Father-in-law couldn't marry her until the second time, until he paid the price for the second wife. After 14 years of being in slavery with this guy, uh, Jacob finally left that place with his wives and cattle and everything he'd accomplished to go back to his father's house, or this place here, actually. Um, and so Jacob was the one out while he was out there in the middle of the night, he met this guy and they began to wrestle. And he said it was none other than God. And other other scriptures said he wrestled with the angel of the Lord. And whether it was God, whether it was the angel of the Lord, or anything, what it really was is within himself there was this struggle going on. And this, and to me, this is what the struggle was. And I'm sure everyone has their own idea, but the struggle was him inside wrestling with that higher consciousness that was teaching him and showing him this is you, this you're the higher consciousness. This is you, Jacob. The word Jacob meant supplanter or deceiver. That's really what his name was the deceiver, the supplanter. And that was his that's what Jacob means. And after he wrestled with God, and he said he wrestled all night, he couldn't get this out of his system. He wrestled and wrestled and fought this guy. And uh he said, Let me go. And Jacob's like, No, I'm not gonna let you go until you bless me. And so he said, Well, then what is your name? A higher consciousness said, What are your name? And he said, My name's Jacob. He said, No longer will it be Jacob. This day forward, your name will be Israel. And and your descendants will basically become the tribe of Israel. But he said, This day forward, your name will be Israel. And the angel of the Lord touched the hip of his socket, and it said, From that day forward, Jacob, which was now Israel, Israel walked with a limp. And some people say that's cruel or whatever, but no, it's symbolic, it's all symbolic. Okay? And the symbolism is we wrestle with God until our nature changes on the inside. We see ourselves how he sees us, and then when he touches the hip of our socket, that means your walk is changed forever. From that day forward, Jacob never walked like a normal man. They saw him walking with a lip, but he walked with a new nature, a name Israel. And after that, everyone called him Israel. You know what I mean? They began to call him Israel and the children of Israel, because he had the 12 sons. You know, Joseph was his uh 11th son. But that's where Jacob, and that's kind of like his story. Remember, he had what they call the 12 patriarchs or the 12 sons, and then they all had children, and they all had children, and that became the 12 tribes of Israel. But now the name Israel, think about this. The name Israel means to wrestle with God, to wrestle with consciousness. And it doesn't have to be a fight and a struggle, but see, in our sleepy state, how can we reach that point where we realize I and the Father are one? That's the wrestle. That's the wrestle. How can I be God? How can God be me? See, the mind cannot comprehend that more at all. So there's this constant struggle going on, uh, you know, until our nature is actually changed. And the changing of the nature is really just raising our consciousness to the level where we can hear those messages coming from God. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 15:27

I think it's so relevant for every person that we all wrestle with ourselves and we don't really understand. We think we're wrestling with the world, we feel that we're wrestling with external circumstances, life situations, difficulties on the outside. But I I do believe that eventually everybody turns within and realize that the the struggle is is an inner struggle, and when you really start to look inwards and understand more deeply what is causing the outer disharmony is an inner disharmony, and when you can face that, then you can tune in to those messages from the higher consciousness from the Lord that are always coming and going. Jacob's ladder, the messages are always going up and down, but we're not always aware. So when we start to become aware, because we're now a little bit more silent, we're listening more attentively, we're tuning inwards, we're beginning to understand something. So every time we tune in, we're being lifted a little more, a little higher. And eventually you do have to wrestle with that lower nature because that lower nature just keeps pulling us back into the old, into the patterns. And eventually there will there will be a shift. And the shift, you know, I love the way in the Bible that when there is a shift, when you do connect, that there's a name change, because the name is always it's about it's the nature, and then when you change, when the God gives you a new name, it means the nature has changed. And I love what you said there about um Jacob's walk. He he now walked with the limp and the significance of that, because now your walk changes, so you've come you've come down from that understanding, so you have the higher awareness which comes from above, but now you're back down here, you're living life, but of course, you can never walk the same again because something fundamental has shifted, your nature has shifted, and now your walk shifts. So that's so beautiful uh to actually understand that. So thank you for explaining that. I really love it.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Yeah, it's really uh I love it too. I love those kind of scriptures when they start coming alive, you just see it from a different view because when your view changes, you don't you no longer look at the old, you know, biblical way of everybody has taught for years anyway, in and out of the church for me, because when my view changed, I started seeing the types and shadows as being the way to interpret what he was talking about. And so these are all types of shadows of what's going on inside of us because it's a religious, I mean, it's a spiritual book. The whole thing from the beginning to the end is a spiritual book that must be interpreted in a spiritual manner, and everything is types and shadows of the real. And these struggles really do go on inside of us, and we do wrestle. And I love it because, like you said, when our name changes, our nature changes on the inside, and it's a little bit at a time. For some people, it's it's probably you know, they get a flash of insight and boom, they they got it. But I was a very slow learner, and uh me and you have talked before about this, but there's a scripture in the New Testament that says, He that falleth upon the rock shall be broken, but whomever the rock falleth upon shall be crushed. And my understanding of that is we, you know, we get we some of us turn to Jesus and our lives are broken, and we go in and we plead with Jesus and we get help, we get relief. But if that rock falls on you, you're crushed. Well, when you're crushed, you're crushed all the way back to dust. And remember, we were created out of dust. And I feel like at my that point in my life when I was going through all this, I was literally crushed tomorrow. I had nowhere to turn, nothing else to do. I might quit praying, my prayers wasn't working, nothing was working anymore. I was just a dead man walking. You know the story. And I love how you put from uh anguish to awakening. That was such a beautiful title because it really matched the several years that I was going through that. But what I was gonna get at, if we can go this way, is the rock. You see, he laid his head on the rock. Even while we're asleep, Jesus is there. He's gonna be Jesus is under us as the rock, the foundation holding us. The father's at the top, that's the story, and we're right in the middle. We're the story. He's the foundation, the father's, of course, the top, the end, the author, and the finisher. And our whole life, Mara, is the ascending and descending. That's us, our whole lives. And so when you start talking about the rock afterwards, it says, and there Jacob's called it Bethel, the house of God. So it says he built an altar. Now, in those days, in the Hebrew days, when they built an altar, uh, they would just stack up a couple of rocks, or maybe one rock, or a few rocks. That way, every time they came by there, they would say, That's where I had my revelation with God. And that would be a memorial memorial to them, and they could go there again and feel the presence of God, if that makes sense. But that's what the rock means. You know, it means a place where I had a revelation. So in the Hebrew mind, the rock always meant a revelation. Do you kind of follow that?

SPEAKER_00 20:36

When you talk about the rock, you lay your head upon the rock. The rock is Jesus. It takes a moment, you don't know it's always there, you're always connected, you always have your head upon the rock. But if you the rock will either crush you, and what else did you say, Robert? You you'll either be crushed by the rock or yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

If you fall on the rock, you'll be broken.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

You'll be broken.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Most of our life, most of our lives are broken. But people do break, and then they get to a breaking point and they cry out to God or Jesus or you know, whatever they decide is their deity. There's only one, it's only consciousness. Uh, but once they cry out, say if they fall upon that rock, that revelation that I need help, basically, and I can't do it myself, they'll be broken. And they are broken, that's why they fell upon the rock. They needed help. But if that rock, if that revelation falls on you, it will crush you to dust. And then you'll realize there's nothing left. And then now it's no longer I that live. It is literally Christ that liveth his life in me and through me. There's nothing left to Robert, but until you're broken or until you're crushed, you know, you might not realize that you're asleep. And the awakening, I love it because when Jacob said it says, when Jacob awoke from his sleep, you see what I mean? And morrow, once we start becoming aware of that, that's like you said, the ladder ascending and descending, we're always resurrected. On Jesus. The Father's always there in a higher state sending us those messages and those signals. And when we awake to that, our view changes. Because no longer are we asleep. Now we're awake knowing this. And that's even more precious, more beautiful, because now you won't you don't allow yourself to fall asleep because you can't. It's a snap of the fingers. You can have a thought come in, and then you go down a rabbit trail. That's kind of like getting back on that long train. You talked about one time. You know, you get back on that train, and now you're on a train of thoughts that will take you so far back into the sleepy state, you know, that it takes another awakening, so to speak. And that's what I love about our last uh podcast is he continues to lift us up, lift us up. We're, you know, born from above, always, always, always being lifted higher and higher in our consciousness.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

The whole process of life coming and going, ascending and descending, the uh symbology that you've just shared with us about Jacob's ladder is very beautiful. The name change, the changing of the walk until such time as you don't allow yourself to um to be pulled back as strongly again. And I what I've um you know also understood is that when you do ascend and you get a revelation and you come back down, what you bring with you is you bring the revelation back down into this body, into the world. And because you've changed, because your nature has changed, then you will create the change on the outside because your nature has changed. So it's not staying up in that high place because we can't stay there, we have to come back down, but when we come back down, we come back down, changed, and therefore we can then hold the physical body, the incarnated body, can hold the glory of God, and then we can become a vessel for that glory on this earth.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Yeah, yeah. And I like how you said that. Uh, because surely think about this. What it is, it's manna from heaven, it's food, and it's food for our soul to lift us. We eat that, even if we don't know what it is, we can just sense it. We're aware of it. And that awareness is where it all starts. We have to become aware of we're being fed constantly, we're being fed from heaven, unseen manna, unseen substance. But then once, like you said, once we start awakening, even that one little revelation, and everybody has to have their own revelation. You can have all the teachers in the world, but unless you sat long enough to get your emanation from that revelation, there won't be much change. But just think, then, like you said, you you assimilate it, bring it back, and now you might help one or two people in your life, or maybe a group of people, who knows? Because now you've got a revelation which is manna. Now you've got substance that you can feed others and share, and that's the 12 baskets left over. You know, the master fed everybody, but there was 12 baskets left over, and that was just for future sharing, you know. So I I like I love this whole conversation, but uh isn't that wonderful? You get a little bit of revelation, and now you don't want to go back to sleep and start dreaming that way.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Robert, that's so true, because that little bit of revelation, when it comes, it is so magical and it has such a ring of truth about it that you just know that something precious has been given to you. And when that comes, it you want to listen for more and look out for more. You want to grab that revelation and hold it like it's a prize because you know it's precious. So when someone is let's say someone hasn't had a revelation or they've had one or two revelations, but they don't come very often. In my life, I've really relished the times that I've grabbed a revelation and I go, Wow, that's so amazing! And you understand it comes like uh like a download, and you have an understanding that just comes upon you, and it's so wonderful that you really it does lift you up, it does take you into a new understanding. And but I've also understood that when I've got that, it might come and then it's grabbed away. And I go, What was it? I know I kind of understood something yesterday, but it seems to have disappeared, and I I feel like I've lost something. So, can you speak to that and about how revelation comes, how to recognize it, and how to integrate it, and and possibly just to add a little bit to that, is how to um you know to open up to more revelation in our lives.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

Yeah, yeah, that's a very, very good question. And uh I like how you said it's a download. Oh my gosh, I've gotten a few downloads like that in my life. And it was just like it took me sometimes days or weeks, because I would try to write them down because I used to teach in the church. I didn't want to teach something that wasn't that I didn't understand. I would have a whole download and I would have to go break it down just so I could teach somebody because you can't just tell them the vision you just had, because most people just don't, they're like, oh wow, that only makes sense. And I understand that now. Um, so when the download comes, or the the rev uh, I'd always love to call it the emanation, you know, because it's always an emanation. The the spirit is always emanating something to us, and uh, it's so simple to forget it, like you said. And what I've learned, Maura, is the more you is as soon as you get it, you you just stay with it. You just chew on that thing and munch on that thing in your mind, mull it over and over. That's a type of meditation, actually. It's a it is a contemplative meditation, and you mull over and over. And I used to write them down so I wouldn't forget them. That way I could look up the words. Um, but even if you forget it, it actually doesn't matter because it will play a significant role somewhere else in your life at a different time, it'll spring right up. You'll be somewhere in a conversation or another revelation will come and it'll add to it, add to it, add to it. And something that just came to mind is in the beginning was the word. The word was with God, and the word was God, but the word became flesh. And that flesh, that word that becomes our flesh, okay, is once we get those revelations, that's the word, that's what's gonna heal us or help us or you know, bring whatever we need in our lives, because now we've got the word of God. And I think personally that is the absolute only thing that makes a change in our life. Just like Jake Jacob wrestled with that, he wrestled with it and wrestled with it, but once he got the word, he got the name change, he got the revelation, and it changed the whole pattern and direction of his life. Um, yeah, so when you get it, hang on to it the best you can. But if you forget it, that's okay. He knows. It's it's it's just part of the journey because he's gonna build it line upon line, precept upon precept, if if that kind of makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Yes, and you know that it's a revelation because it's so different to your other thoughts, it's so different to the other patterns of your life. And the revelations, when they come, they come really in those moments of silence. You don't necessarily always need to be in meditation for them to come. It could come in a dream, or it could come as you're, you know, having watching a sunset or walking the dog. And it's just just to describe like what a moment of revelation could look like for someone, you know, just so they can be more aware that a revelation is because the voice of God is quiet, it's silent, it's still, it's not always loud, and you know, what it comes with bells and whistles. So for you and in your life, how have revelations come? Can you give us an example of you know what a revelation could look like or what a the voice of God or that still silent voice can look like, even in moments of you know, not out of meditation or within meditation, even right.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

Yeah, see, sometimes I mean I I could be washing the dishes and not be thinking about anything, and all of a sudden, you know, uh of course I'm I'm used to it now, but all of a sudden I'll get this word, or I'll get, like you said, a download of a few things. Sometimes it's a whole block of information, but sometimes it's just one or two things. And uh, I just became more and more aware that oh my gosh, this is this is the voice, this is the silence. It was so so subtle. In the beginning, I I missed it so many times, but it built upon itself. But uh, and then like like I said, some there was times I would say, or something would say to me, Go tell that person this or that. And I would miss it totally, and walk out of the store and plum forget it, be sitting in the car and said, I told you. And it was like, oh, that was you, if that was God, but I was too embarrassed or too ashamed. And if I had to act on that, I'm sure we had a different outcome or whatever. So it's okay to miss it and stuff too, because it's kind of like uh training and becoming obedient. I guess like one of our podcasts we talked about, it's like an instrument has to be fine-tuned. And so, so when it comes to me, it's usually almost like an aha moment. I'll think of something, or something will just come right into my mind or my brain, something totally unexpected, totally off the wall. I could be, sometimes I could be watching TV with dad, and he loves to watch gun smoke, it's a Western, and uh, you know, and we're watching gunsmoke, and all of a sudden I'll get something right out of heaven, and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And so I'll go in the bedroom, you know, just kind of start writing stuff down, and uh it might sometimes it'll just come as a almost like a feeling just goes through you, like an awareness, and you just know something, you know, without a thought. You just kind of know something. It's like, oh, you know, and it's uh so it comes in a little two different ways. I like how Joel said it's a click. To me, it's an emanation, and I try to be so sensitive to those emanations. Because once you get that little bit, to me, that's when the word becomes flesh. It it enters your life, and then it it uh it changes something, and that's that struggle and wrestling that uh Jacob was going through, and it is us, and we struggle with these things, even with the little revelations. We struggle and struggle and struggle. But there does come a time, there really does come a time for all of us uh on this journey. There is gonna come a time when the awakening will happen. And then, Mara, that's oh, that's the only food we really want. It's so beautiful. It's so then you become so aware of the voice that the outer world just kind of vanishes if if if that helps.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Yes, and and it does become very precious. And as like we said earlier, that voice is always there, it never hasn't, has it has never not been there. And when we understand that, you know, our tuning does take on a different level. We tune inwards instead of outwards, and that inner voice and that inner silence becomes so much more precious because you know that that's the only place for true transformation to come, because the normal way of being in the world is just going to create more of the same. And if if one is really looking for um to be lifted up to to move towards truth, or in that search, this whole podcast is called our search, our journey to truth. It's a search, and eventually you realize there's nowhere to search for it. That the truth is actually within that journey, it's an inward journey, but it's not somewhere to go to, it's not something to get, it's in you, and we just need to open up to it, and that understanding that it's been there all along, but we just haven't tuned our awareness to it, and the the tuning of that, the listening, and it becomes that itself becomes a joy, and that silence becomes very precious, and that's when the outer world has less impact because you know that the real manna, and I love the word manna, you use that word mana because manna is precious, and the other thing about manna in the Bible is that you are always didn't God say not to hold the manna that it would go off, that you can't just gather it and store it, that it's fresh every time. So the voice of God, the angels ascending and descending are constantly coming and going, so it's um it's uh it's an ongoing process, it's always new, it's always fresh, and it's always present. It can never be, you know, it's always in the moment. So to be fully present inwardly is where the revelations will come, and that in itself is something that happens um through our search, through our um that desire, that um yearning to behold what is really true for us in our lives.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Yes, yes, that's the acceptance and the surrender, and uh and that's the most beautiful thing. Like you just you but you totally explain the whole ordeal. It's like it's so beautiful, but it is the surrender and the acceptance, and just let that word come because that is uh the manner, that is it. Oh, and what you said about see, it has to be daily. Moses told the people, hey, you can only eat it today, don't store it till tomorrow, it'll be rotten. And it was. They chat they test, they're like, No, we're saving something. You know, in case we're doing case they're eating none tomorrow. And so every day tomorrow, we have to take the uh just a few seconds every morning, every day, and then it turns into minutes and hours. But a few seconds every morning, just acknowledge, okay, I'm here to get some manna, or I'm here just to hear, I'm just here to be silent, whatever it takes. And you'll feel that emanation or that click, that release, you'll feel joy or peace, even amongst the pain, you'll feel something a shift, and that's the mana, and that becomes flesh. Somehow or another, it will work something out in your life. It's beautiful, it has to be daily.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Yes, and that's the word of God made flesh, and that's the whole thing, you know, that's the that's the that's the Bible, you know, the word becomes flesh and dwells amongst us, and the simplicity of that really, you know, just through this conversation, is the word is comes through the silence, that still small voice, that inner, that inner um emanation, it comes down, it becomes, it comes into our flesh, and then it dwells amongst us. I just love that. It's so precious, it's so delightful, and it feels you know, it it's it's it's so true, and in that truth, that revelation dwelling amongst us, it can only have goodness, it can only bring goodness out into your life and into the life of others.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

Yes, ma'am. You said it, and that's beautiful. That's that's just a beautiful, beautiful place to be.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Yeah, so today I loved it. A great conversation again, Robert. I really love it because every time we speak, you know, you you I have to sit here and um you know absorb what you're saying, and it's always relevant to something in my life, and I know if it's some relevant to my life, it's relevant to other people's lives, and it's so good to have someone like you come on here who has a higher level of understanding, who's who's been through um the anguish and moved up to more of an awakening, a level of awakening to bring your understanding to us, because I'm certainly every time we speak, every conversation we have, something is opening up in me and it's becoming deeper. And I truly hope that through these conversations, through each podcast, that people get something that will help them to open up and um that it will just be a continuous process and to never ever give up. If you're in, if you're on your own journey to truth, which this podcast is, you're in the right place. Just be gentle with yourself. Doesn't matter what you're going through, doesn't matter whether it's tough, whether it's easy, because we have seasons, it comes and goes, but each time we're going through stuff that's difficult, which is the hard part, as just listening to today's conversation, it's never wrong. You're always in the right place, and that difficulty can be used as a place, a moment of transformation that could change your whole life and bring you into a whole new level of understanding and revelation and joy and happiness and presence.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Yes, ma'am. Freely I have received and freely I give, and I just love to give it. Uh, anybody that wants to listen, I'll talk and I'll listen too. I learn every moment from you too, whether you know it or not. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

Thank you, Robert. I look forward to our next time. And again, thank you for being here today. It was an amazing conversation. Thanks to all the listeners for listening in. If you got something from this, if you enjoy this podcast, if it lifted you up, if it helps you to open up to something, please share it. We want this to go out to as many people as possible. So we'd love your participation in that. And we look forward to you listening in next time. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

Thank you, bye bye.