To the Vanderblumen Leadership Podcast, where we help you build, run, and keep great teams. Thanks for being here. Let's dive in. Well, William, one week ago to this release date, the Ohio State Buckeyes became the first ever national champions of the 12-team college football playoff. If you're a Notre Dame fan, I hope you don't leave this podcast. But the reason I say this is they went on a four-game run of win after win after win. And it's, I had the thought, it has to be so difficult to keep the team focused on a goal this next year after achieving the heights of the sport. And it thought I thought, man, how does one go about as they're leading a team? How do you handle that type of success in a team? And how do you shift focus from one goal to another goal, especially after achieving the previous goal?
SPEAKER_00Such a good question. I mean, the first thing is you got to think of your whole team, you know. And like for me, I'm thinking of our whole client base and how you just ticked off every Catholic client we have.
SPEAKER_01That's fair. That's fair. And my parts of my family as well. Ask for forgiveness, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Okay, good luck with that. There might be some penance. Oh, you know, years ago, by the way, it's kind of funny, 2013, Adrian and I had planned a trip. We had all these airline points from flying all over the country doing searches for churches. And we went to Italy during spring break because all the kids were doing different things. And we planned it a long time in advance. And we got to Rome, and it was right when they were in conclave. They were picking the current Pope, Francis. Yep. And uh our guide, I mean, we like we literally happened to be in the right place at the right time, and he rushed us up. We were the the closest people on the on the square to the Pope, other than clergy.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So we got a picture. Uh Instagram had just started, and we got a picture of Adrian and me with the smoke going up behind us. And the caption on Instagram was, It always feels good to finish a really big search.
SPEAKER_01That's great. That's great.
SPEAKER_00Our laps Catholic friends are like, did you do that certainly truly? And I'm like, I can't talk about this.
SPEAKER_01This is you think I'm supposed to talk about this? That's right. It's closer to it's high, highly classified information. I couldn't tell.
SPEAKER_00In all seriousness, we actually have done a lot of work with the Catholic Church, and there is a big sense of team and accomplishment. And there they they have uh when you think about team and momentum, to me, uh you can't run all out all year. It's just not possible.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So to me, uh the greatest friend of continued success is momentum. Yeah, momentum's everything with leading. If you can get momentum, hang on to it, do whatever you can to keep it. But that doesn't mean you have to sprint the whole time. So what I do love about the Catholic Church is their sense of calendar. Yeah. Like they have a run-up. We're recording right now, and in about a month, they'll have a run-up toward Easter, you know, the Lenten calendar. I'm actually in the middle of writing a devotional for you version uh for a Lenten devotional. And then they'll turn their focus elsewhere. And then there's feast days and fast days, and I'm not Catholic, but it's just really interesting how they control goals and momentum by having small achievable wins. Like here in this team, we're coming off the best year we've ever had. Yeah. And it's just, I mean, every single thing was up and to the right. And the couple of things that were less up and to the right really took off at the end of the year. Well, how do you sustain that momentum? Well, this quarter and next quarter, I've said, you know, we spent a good bit of time in the latter half of last year focused on uh our marketing efforts, our sales efforts, which are not words preachers like, we don't have sales in church. Yes, you do. Call it eternal fire insurance, but you're selling something, I promise. Uh so we worked on that and how we how we can understand the pain points people have, got really good at that. Now we've got momentum. So what are we doing the first two quarters this year? I'm spending an equal amount of time on our delivery system. I'm diving into, I'm getting deep in the weeds in uh our recruiters that are looking for uh uh great candidates for our consultants that are working directly with clients. So that the there's momentum, but you don't have to have momentum in every department at every moment. Yeah, it kind of gives some people a moment to breathe and it gives others uh a moment to focus. Yeah. It's interesting. Um I would say I'm a runner, I'm more like a jogger. Okay. We've talked about this before. But uh running shoes got really comfortable. New in new uh soles came out, I don't know, maybe eight or ten years ago. They're much softer, they're cushier. Everyone who has ever worn a pair of hokas, that's what you're wearing, these big, thick, cushy soles. They're really good, but they only last about three to five hundred miles. Well, if you run 30 miles a week, that means every 10 weeks, it's about time to get some new shoes. If you buy two pairs and you alternate days, you can get about 700 miles out of each pair of shoes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So instead of 600 miles with two pairs of shoes, you're getting, you know, 1,400 miles.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_00So there's a rest and push, and a rest and a push. And I would bet that um I'd say Ohio State, but that's not the right way to say it, is it?
SPEAKER_01The Ohio State.
SPEAKER_00The Ohio State is having a little bit of a rest and then a rhythm, and a rest and a rhythm. And then they maybe they're gonna focus on other things. I mean, I don't know if they have another $20 million to buy a national championship.
SPEAKER_01Well, we don't want to get into numbers here, but I do want to know what are just some tips for obviously a huge success like that. You have to be feeling pretty good about yourself. You got to be feeling, you know, a little bit of the hot air balloon and uh very confident and rightfully so, but how do you stay grounded and still stay, I guess, humble and have a realistic view of yourself in going to achieve the next goal?
SPEAKER_00So that's a trick question, Jared. If you ever meet somebody who says I'm an expert on humility, well, I used to brag, actually.
SPEAKER_01This was a funny joke I used to say. I used to tell people that I'm the self-proclaimed world's humblest person. I don't say that anymore because it's just a joke.
SPEAKER_00There's a guy that uh people anything younger than me wouldn't know, Ted Turner. He started TBS and you know all the all the things in Atlanta and CNN and everything else. Uh but he was a big gregarious personality. He used to say, if I had a little more humility, I'd be perfect.
SPEAKER_01That's right.
SPEAKER_00That's right. I think everyone feels some that way, just a little bit, maybe. In all seriousness, here's what I'm learning as I get older. This is may just be my wiring. It may not be true for everybody listening, but in my life, success is the devil's playground. You know, when you're down, you figure out who you are. You know, like if you've ever watched the old Rocky movies and he gets the crap beaten out of him, I think it's Rocky II, and he comes back to his corner and he says to his trainer, Mick, I ain't going down no more. And he doesn't go down one more time. He found out who he was in the down. The problem is when you get to the top, it's real easy to forget who you are.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You figure out who you are when the chips are down, and you you've you gotta you gotta find a win. You stack enough wins and start believing your own press, and it can lead to a real problem. And that was Rocky III. You know, you big success, wasn't fighting as much. Clobber Lang comes along, Mr. T and and kicks his butt. And that's been true for me. The the times I've been weakest are after my biggest career successes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And if you look at uh what happens, you know, I use a biblical example of King David. Uh he was the lead warrior in it was his job to lead the army. Like from day day one of him showing to be king was killing Goliath, right? And he led him out to war, he let him out to war. He wasn't old, and then we get a verse that says, and then the time of year came, I think it was the springtime, when men go to war. Yep. And David said, I'm staying home this time. It's not a good outcome. No, they don't need me on the field, I'll stay here, find something else to do. Uh-oh. Bathsheba happens. Yeah. Right. Now that's a severe example, but it's super easy when you're successful to think a little bit more of yourself than you ought. Yeah. You know, the Bible says, uh, don't think too highly of yourself. Well, you also shouldn't think too lowly of yourself, right? Yeah. Uh, and it and it's not don't think don't ever think well of yourself. You should celebrate the wins God puts in front of you. But man, I am learning as I get older, when we have a moment of success, that's when I've just got to stay grounded. I've got to do something that reminds me, you know, I ain't going down no more. That's not fight, big fight. So I don't know what how that translates to people who are listening today, but I would just say if you could, if you have an accountability group, if you have friends, if you have, well, I've I've mentioned before on our podcast, particularly if you're a guy, because we're terrible at sharing, you should have what's called, have you ever heard the phrase a 2 a.m. friend?
SPEAKER_01I have, yeah. Yeah. I've got them, thankfully.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. These are the people that if you get arrested or you end up in jail, and it doesn't matter if it's 2 a.m., you can call one of these five guys and they don't ask questions, they just come, and then you're you know, fully transparent with them about what's going on in your life. My my best 5 a.m. friend, I was telling this story recently, and uh he looked to the group I was telling it to. I said you need five, two a.m. friends, guys. And he looked at the crowd and said, I'm the 4 a.m. friend, and I bring a shovel. So it's good to have one of those two, but that's a different podcast. So that's right. But find those people that you really can be honest with. If you're married, it should be your spouse. Uh, but at somebody that you can say, when you see me start to succeed, ask me the hard questions. Because success is often the time that people crumble.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And that's why, you know, everybody hated the Patriots when they were winning all the time. They hated Alabama when they were winning all the time. We live in this disposable world. I'm the first generation that had the happy meal. Like we really are the first disposable generation. And uh if you can find anything that's lasting and permanent and successful over a long period of time, I know that's the evil empire people hate, but the older I get, the more I'm like, oh my gosh, to be successful over a long period of time requires enormous self-awareness. Watching Saban, uh, I he keep his clips keep showing up in my reel and in my uh feed. And uh he I was watching the other day, he was talking to his players, he said, You know your biggest enemy? Your talent. Your talent is your biggest enemy because you've spent, especially young guys on the team, you've spent your whole football career being the best player on the team. And now here you are, and you're not. Your talent will fool you into thinking you're better than you are. That's right. That's very good. So I think you know, if leaders want to keep themselves grounded after a big win, it it all falls back on having people who will ask you the hard questions and having the self-awareness to know when I get the big win, that's when it could go really bad.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. When it comes to you know, the big win, we we've talked about burnout before, and um that's been a topic that we've we've covered a lot, but these successes, especially the big ones, do you how do you kind of discern, hey, we this one is one that the group needs to celebrate just a little bit, versus hey, this is one that you know we that maybe I'll let them celebrate a little bit more than I am, where I need to buckle down a little bit more? Or how do you uh go about deciding and discerning, I guess, um, when to celebrate and how long to celebrate for before moving on to the next goal or the next hopeful success?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think the the key to knowing how and when to celebrate is to before the win ever happens, knowing what the win is. I mean, the win. Like, what's the win for Ohio State? Uh arguably it's not the national championship, it's the game, and hadn't won that one in quite a while, have we?
SPEAKER_01Well, I was there in person this last year, so I did get to watch the national champions in person, but yes, you're right.
SPEAKER_00It's all about the game for Michigan and Ohio State, right? Well, in a church, you say, Well, what's the biggest win? Well, that can get really hard to know. You you can get so caught up in the crisis, the tier of the tyranny of the urgent, and and you say, Well, we don't have a five-year plan. Here's a real simple filter for how to know when to celebrate if you're leading a church, okay, or a nonprofit for that matter. Um the church, and I this is uh uh teaching that Ed Young here in town, the uh former pastor at Second Baptist Church, amazing leader, he said to me, William, never forget this. The church is a nonprofit that has a profit margin. What are you talking about, Ed? What do you mean a profit margin? Are you making money over there at your church? No, no, no, no, no. William, the profit margin for the church is life change. And if you can look for life change, celebrate life change, and realize that the people supporting your church are kind of the shareholders, if you will show them tangible life change in your church, you'll never have to ask for money again, you'll never have to worry about momentum again. That's the win, is life change. I thought that makes it so freaking clear.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So do you have a clear definition of what the biggest win is?
SPEAKER_01What success looks like.
SPEAKER_00And do you have a definition for smaller wins? You know, when we see our cultural values lived out here, it's not the biggest win, but man, that's worth celebrating. So we celebrate that when we see people. But the biggest win is when we get to help a local church identify the leader God's raising up, and then that local church goes to brand new heights. And we're and we're just like in the cheap, we're kind of like the sound guy in church. The only time you notice this is when we have a bad day. That's true. Very true. But but seriously, you know, when we can see, when I look at Mariner's Church out in California, and if you're not in California, you probably don't know Mariner's Church, it's one of the best kept secrets in all of the kingdom. And we had the pleasure and honor of helping them as they transitioned from what was essentially their founding pastor to uh who'd done an amazing job. How in the world do you follow Nick Saban or, you know, a legend? And man, I mean, we were just the sound guy. We just, you know, in the back trying to guide the process, and the person God delivered, and there's no way we could take credit for how it happened, but to get to be there and watch it. I was there last weekend, last week, and uh the pastor Eric Geiger said, You got to come to our Thursday night young adult service. And I said, Well, I I don't really qualify for that anymore. He said, I can get you a pass. Uh, we we we don't let, especially creepy old guys, come to the young adult service, but okay, Thursday night, you know, or whatever, I'll go and there'll be 50 or 100 people, 2,000 people. Goodness, fully engaged, and the senior pastor preaching every Thursday night there before a weekend of messages.
SPEAKER_01That's impressive.
SPEAKER_00It was a win. Yeah. There's life change. There's and us behind the scenes people, that's when you go, oh my gosh, what we're doing really, really matters. So for for us, knowing what the big win is looks different than for a church or a school. But can you define the biggest and longest lasting success and then cascade celebrations around how close you are to that biggest and highest success? So you you should celebrate all kinds of things. Celebrations, people love celebrations.
SPEAKER_01That's right.
SPEAKER_00They love a rally, they love a concert, they love a football game, people love celebrations. So as a leader, I think it is incumbent on you to create celebrations, but know which ones are the most important and which ones aren't. And and one little sidebar when you're celebrating if you're the leader of your team and you're celebrating wins, you can't ever be the hero. Ever. It's like a good quarterback would say, I take all the blame, I give away all the credit. That's what quarterbacks do if they're really good. And as a leader, that's kind of our role. I've not done a great job of that over the years. I end up going, oh, I said I and me way too many times in that sense. I've probably done it on this podcast, but I'm trying to learn to realize, you know, give away the credit, name someone else as the hero, point to somebody behind the scenes that no one would realize was a part of the success. Point to that. And I promise you it will make the celebration contagious and more lasting.
SPEAKER_01That's great. There's a little sidebar. That was for free. That's great. That's great. And I think as we kind of close today, you know, there's many people who are leading a team right now that we're gonna say, optimistically, you just had an amazing first success, a first big success. What would be just some lasting advice for them as they go to move the goalpost to the next big thing, as they go from maybe a moment of celebration that's hopefully been with the whole team to the next goal, the next big thing? What just a piece of advice to close with today for them?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, I tell you what, I am trying to learn to do is when there's a success, yes, you celebrate what's happened down here on the ground in success. Absolutely. But the leader might be the only person in the organization tasked with imagine we're on a boat, we have a big success. Yay. My job is to do the celebration, but immediately to climb up to the crow's nest. And I'm not driving the boat, actually, Jen's driving the boat here, but I'm in the crow's nest saying, I see what's next on the horizon, and I see how to capture this momentum and motivate people toward the next thing that they haven't even thought about.
SPEAKER_01That's great.
SPEAKER_00When I talked to Dr. Young about starting this company, he was just an amazing he's still alive, but he was just an amazing leader. And I called him for advice. Uh he gave me the profit margin thing right when I moved to town as a pastor. And so when I thought about starting this, I I called him and he said he thought it would work. And he said, You're gonna need a plan. I said, Okay, and then of course he gave me a plan that was better than what I thought about, and he said, Now, once you're done with America and you start to go international, you're gonna want to go toward Europe and then Africa first. Like I hadn't even thought past Texas.
SPEAKER_01That's amazing.
SPEAKER_00And he was up in a crow's nest, and dang it, if we're not spreading out, I mean, Bogota, Colombia, just this last month, lots of new countries coming in. And I would never have thought that big. The leader's job is to expand people's thinking. That's not to get in their face and say run harder, run harder, but to motivate them to think about a horizon they haven't even seen. So when there's a success, yes, celebrate. And as a leader, go up in the crow's nest and ask God, what does this success open up as a possibility that no one else has seen yet? And how do I tell people about it?
SPEAKER_01That's amazing. That's amazing. Well, listen, we hope that this podcast today will be great advice for you, hopefully, as you have just had some amazing success so that you can take into the new year to move on to the next big thing you're doing in 2025. Thanks again for joining us on the Vanderblumen Leadership Podcast. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you're looking for more leadership resources, you can find us at VanderBloomen.com and on socials at Vanderblumen. We'll see you again next week where we continue discussing how to build, run, and keep great teams.