Vanderblumen we have organization built in that team of hiring accession, culture, compensation, and diversity solutions. Visit our website, Vanderblumen.com to learn more and subscribe to our Vanderblumen Leadership Podcast, or podcast to keep up with our latest. Thanks for listening.
SPEAKER_01Well, hey everybody, welcome to the Vanderblumen Podcast. So glad you're here. Uh it is a joy to introduce you to my guest today. Probably never heard of that one before we have you, Wade. Never Wade Joy, a return friend to our podcast today. As you know, we we have a book out called Be the Unicorn, and it's like um 30,000 uh interviews, which is the best of the best. Not all the interviews we've done, but 30,000 interviews. We studied those best of the best and said, do they have anything in common? And we were able to distill 12 habits that these unicorns, these really, really special people practice. And today I want to share uh Wade with you as one who is connected like very few people, and uh his ability to connect others. We'll get there. And you can learn a little bit of behind the scenes on how you can develop this habit and become a unicorn. But before that, I just want everybody to hear uh Wade, I know I made you do this last time, but I I always overestimate how many people know, how many people, and and I'd love it if you just tell a little of your story and uh what led you here. And and first of all, thanks for making time for us today. I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_04Oh, thanks so much for having me, William. I I love just you and your ministry, and the book is fantastic. And being able to talk a little bit about um what you share in the book is gonna just be really fun for me today. But I uh am currently in a season of ministry where I coach a lot of leaders, uh, both within the church and outside of the church. And my background in ministry that people listening to this podcast may or may not be familiar with, is I was the worship pastor at Elevation Church for about 15 years from 2007 to 2021, and got to see God do amazing things there in the ministry, got to experience a lot of growing pains along the way as we saw the worship ministry grow and expand. And at the end of 2021, I felt like the Lord was asking our family to step out and into unknown territory. And that's looked like preaching, it's looked like uh coaching worship leaders and churches. Uh, released a book uh about purpose and calling called This Dream Is Not For You over the last two years. But right now, I was telling you before we hit record that I am really passionate about helping Christian leaders build a private life that empowers their public platform. And I think that's what God's given me the greatest burden for and passion for in this season, whether it's a pastor, a worship leader, or a Christian leader in a secular company, I think the way we lead others is directly affected to how we lead ourselves and how we have rhythms that we have in our relationship with God and with others. And so that's what I'm really excited about right now.
SPEAKER_01Well, those rhythms are so important. And uh I mean, I I kid people all the time. You you go to elevation. I grew up Presbyterian, like we worship like this, right? Yeah, and then if the spirit breathes on the room, you'll see a couple of us do this. That's all you get. So, you know, it's it's a and and I kid with people, they say, well, you know, we'll just sing till the spirit falls, or whatever. You know, I don't mean I'm like, look, man, the spirit moved for 58 and a half minutes every Sunday at first Presbyterian Church, it like clockwork, and everybody laughs. I said, Well, we had to get to lunch before the Baptist. So, you know, that and then they laugh again. And then and then I say something that people uh actually do stop on. Like, hey, you know, the Lord said, Let there be light. What do you do next? He started the calendar. It's all about rhythms, yeah. All about rhythms, and and I have so much to learn about that. Um, um, you know, I I went through a season where I thought if you run on the gerbil wheel faster, you know, you you you're gonna get more done. And and uh what's the old line? You remember Lily Tomlin, the old comedian actress, she's a hundred million years old now. I think she said, the problem with the rat race is even if you win, you're still a rat.
SPEAKER_04I mean, there's still a lot of truth there.
SPEAKER_01I love that you're I love that you're learning that. I love I love the idea of life on the stage or platform is the same as off. That goes to another one of our unicorn habits. We found the best of the best are truly authentic. Like uh, if you've had the chance to meet Pastor Joel at Lakewood here in Houston, I've I imagine you probably have over the years, but like that guy is the same at two in the morning as he is at 11 on Sunday, as he is in front of a president or in front of a pauper. He's the same guy. And uh I think that's part of the reason he's lasted as long as he has.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I I believe so. And and I was telling you too before we hit record, how it's to me, I'm so passionate about this because I was in something that was growing so fast and had enormous impact, but along the way, I lost my sense of joy. Right. And I and I lost my sense of why I got into it in the first place. And I remember having this moment with God, like, God, what where is this um abundant life that I've taught other people that they can have in you? Because right now I don't feel it and I don't sense it. I sense a lot of anxiety, a lot of fear. Um and the Lord really did a renewing work in my heart as I began to adopt a lot of these healthier rhythms and practices that really just renewed my joy in my relationship with Him in ministry to the place where my last season at elevation, even though the job didn't get smaller and it didn't get slower, it was still just as busy as ever. I felt like I got to the healthiest place I'd ever been in ministry by actually taking ownership for my own life. Sometimes we blame the thing we're a part of, or we blame external sources and think our joy is on the other side of the next goal or the next move when really joy is formed where you are right now. And so I think that's an encouragement to leaders. Yes, there are things you can change, yes, there are there are toxic situations sometimes you have to improve. But for all of us as Christians, we have to choose to form joy in our own hearts where we're at. And when we can do that as a leader, it actually what we our heart as a leader is contagious to our team. If you want a more joyful team, if you want a team that's more unified, if you want a team that's healthy, it's gonna flow from you. But if you want a team that's anxious, your anxiety is gonna flow from you as well. So you have to start with yourself.
SPEAKER_01And and there's so many pieces to that. I mean, like I'll tell you a place I really screwed up. When I was young, uh uh we're all young, right? But when I was younger and uh and knew everything, which was really cool, that's the cool part about being 30, you know all of it, right?
SPEAKER_04I wish it lasted.
SPEAKER_01But we were growing, not like elevation, we were growing, I'm young, and have all these children, and I'm pastoring. And uh I figured out two things. If I get up at four in the morning, from four to six in the morning, nobody wants my time. All me. I can get devotions done, I can get sermon prep done, not one little kid comes down asking for a juice cup, like I can go get my workout in. This is amazing. So I'm gonna get that get up at four every morning. And well, how do you do that? Well, you go to bed at 10. You know, oh, you couldn't go to bed any earlier than that. You can get balance six hours of sleep, William. And here's how dumb I was about balance and self-care. I actually said to people, I ran the numbers and did the math. I said, you get up at I get up at four, you get up at six. We both go to bed at 10. That means I'm up two extra hours every day. If you multiply that times 365, I'm up, I get an extra month of stuff done every year more than you do. How dumb is that? Right.
SPEAKER_04You're you're trying to you're trying to win.
SPEAKER_01That's right. With your and it's not about the win.
SPEAKER_04Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_01It took a long time for me to realize, but you know, it's interesting. I was dirt poor in seminary, and I guess everybody in seminary was, but we're Princeton, no money, work study to try and get through, you know, newly married. And uh I ran across this grant that had been given to the seminary a long, long time ago that said if a student will uh memorize the Westminster shorter catechism, which is kind of a cornerstone of reform theology, Presbyterianism, that sort of thing, if you memorize it and take a test to show that you memorized it, we'll give you uh I think it was $2,500, which back then was like it might as well have been $25 million. I mean, that was like, like, really? So I did it, never done it. You know what I realized? One big takeaway. If you take all of the words that God spoke to Moses in the Ten Commandments, okay? And then you look at just the words that are in the fourth commandment about making sure you rest, keeping the Sabbath, there are more words in the fourth commandment than all the other nine put together.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow.
SPEAKER_04Did you know that? I did not know that.
SPEAKER_01Isn't that wild? It's like God was trying to make a point. Like, hey, if you're really good at something, you probably won't slow down unless I tell you to.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean, even recently I felt like the Lord, I was I was praying through something and I was wanting to muscle through it and and make something happen. And I felt like God said, I know you know how to work hard. I don't think you know how to rest well. And I think that is something that I'm learning how to do is because I still think it's important for us to work and it's important to to be ambitious and to steward what God's given us. But I think I my personal tendency is to neglect the restful part. And so I'm learning how to do that in this season. That's that's one of the hardest rhythms for me to adopt.
SPEAKER_01100% agree. And I have to and like neuroscience is all over this now. Like there's so many doctors, and maybe the doctors I'm reading and listening to are in my in the 50s, you know, but they're like, oh boy, I was wrong about sleep. Like greater Alzheimer's, greater diabetes, greater, like there's so many life-diminishing things that happen when you don't rest enough. So tell me what you're learning about helping leaders, whether the church leaders or non, that you're coaching. What what's one or two things you've learned over the last year about this need to balance? What's God teaching you?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I'm learning a couple things come to mind right away is better planning leads to greater presence. So I really in my life, I want to be present to what matters most. And that's my relationship with God. I think it's to myself and my own health because I can't love other people well if I'm not taking care of myself, being present to my family, being present to the people that I'm called to lead. But none of that happens by accident. And so, in the same way you were talking about getting up earlier in the morning, I think sometimes we think we have to do the big drastic shifts to be present. But I'm learning that there are ways that you can have pockets of presence throughout the day. And but none of that is gonna happen if you don't actually own your schedule and take control of the time that God has given you and honestly steward your energy well. So for me, I know that if I'm gonna be present with my family, then I need to look at my phone or I need to not look at my phone in the morning until a certain time, so that I can be with my family at breakfast, so I can have even before that, I can have my time alone with God that's not impacted by all the stress of social media and email. And then when I come home from work, it's or actually I work from home, so when I leave this office, I put my phone away so that I can actually be present with my kids. But it requires a plan, it requires structure, it requires boundaries. And no one's gonna do that for me except for me. And so I think it's helping people figure out what are the little um uh the little decisions you can make and plan for that lead to greater presence to the people that matter most in your life. So that's that's one thing. But the other thing I would say is learning to diversify your satisfaction beyond just what uh uh what you're able to accomplish. I am a huge proponent of watching other people flourish and watching other people uh do the things that you wish you could do, but you can't do them anymore, but you're gonna do everything you can to push them to the forefront. Because that was a lot of my story and elevation is gradually taking a back seat as a worship leader to then being the person behind the scenes pushing other worship leaders forward. And one of the things that was said to me along the way by Pastor Steven was mature ministries being more excited about what God does through others than what he does through you. And so I'm trying to in this season realize that even if I'm not able to do the thing that I want to do, if I can actually invest my satisfaction into someone else, like it's an investment account, then that's gonna continue to grow. That's gonna continue to multiply and that's gonna continue to expand. And so really realizing that especially as I get older, um my greatest win is gonna be in the experience that I can share with other people and the guidance that I can give other people. And I think that's a direct um has direct implications for senior pastors and executive leaders listening to this is are you just as excited to see someone new on your team shine on a platform or to to be the one to bring the new innovation? And if you can get to that place in your heart where that really does fire you up, I think that gives you greater longevity and joy in ministry.
SPEAKER_01Say that, say that one more time. That's gold.
SPEAKER_04If you can get to the place where seeing that younger person shine and that really lights your soul on fire and stirs you up, then that's going to give you greater longevity and greater joy in ministry overall.
SPEAKER_01That's so good. I wish I'd have heard that at a younger age. You know, I I think uh a question I'm having to ask myself as I'm trying to develop and is uh a good like barometric check for me is how excited am I at someone else's success?
SPEAKER_04Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Like that's a question I have to ask myself all the time. And I I gotta tell you, I've gotten I've been so fortunate to get to be around some really, really successful people in the world. Uh it it's amazing that I get to have conversations and do life. And that's in my work and then just friends and you know, people I've met over the years. I don't know anyone who's been the best in the world at what they do that isn't thrilled to see someone else be the best in the world at what they do. Right. It's it's like healthy, successful people relish in other people's success. And it maybe it's why LeBron and Tom Brady are buddies or whatever. You know, it's like, yeah, man, go. You you you know, and that's so good. So maybe that's a you're helping me. I hope it's helping others. How uh excited does another person's success make you, right? Because the the tendency of the unhealthy heart in me is to hear something like, especially as you get a little uh uh older in life, is to hear, well, William, he slayed his thousands, but Wade he he got the tens of thousands, and then I'm you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Well, it it goes directly with what you write about in the book about being a connector because people will always be grateful for somebody who adds value into their life. And they reciprocate. It might not be in the moment, it might be years and years and years from now. So, yes, it's a selfless thing to do when you help empower somebody else, but selfishly it also helps you down the road in ways a lot of times that you'll never be able to foresee. So if you can just be open-handed and watch other people succeed, it will bless your life, whether it's the fulfillment you get in the moment, or it's a connection that someone else is able to make for you down the road. And I find when we can live open-handed like that, it's just it's so much, there's so much less anxiety, less competition, less fearfulness. You're not thinking that God is a God of scarcity, that we're only one person can win.
SPEAKER_01So good. It's so good. I I'm a uh data geek and try to do health stuff. You know, I'm not there's a lot of people healthier than me and all, but I work out a fair amount. So I'm all into longevity right now. And the one of the big conversations is moving from um healthcare 2.0 to 3.0. Uh Peter Atiya, several of these people. Uh 2.0 is like, hey, we live with antibiotics, you get sick, become treated. Health 3.0 is uh what do we do right now to delay the onset of unhealthy things? And so, you know, you talked a little bit about I want to I want to talk about connected because from the moment we met, and you don't even remember when we met, we met a thousand years ago at a catalyst where Pastor Stephen, I think he was still doing the platinum tips. Like that's how long ago's about right. So and you guys are gracious to talk to me, but I remember thinking that guy's connected. And it's not just he's around an amazing anointed leader in Pastor Stephen, but you like that guy's connected. So let me ask you this. I'm telling my teenagers all the time, I think you everybody says, Well, I walked to school uphill in the snow both ways when I was your age. Actually, I think I had it easier than my kids do now because I didn't have to deal with the smartphone social media stuff that is so double-edged. So, in a world where unicorns are connected, they're really good at connecting in relationships, how do you find balance and what practices can you put in place to keep from being like the slave to doom scrolling? The comparing on the like what are you learning that I can put into practice so that I delay the onset of a of a really dysfunctional uh shadow side of trying to be connected?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think uh you talk about this in the book about um social media makes it easier than ever for us to be superficially connected, but that's not a deep connection because true connection requires intention. And so for me, yes, there's a a lot of what I do is through social media. I think I I want to encourage people through it. I'm able to uh meet new people and have great connections through it. And so it has its place. But when I think about being a connector, and it's actually really funny to me that we're even having this conversation because my internal dialogue and my inner narrative tells me that I'm too shy to be a connector because I'm an introvert and I've always thought I'm not charismatic like these other people. It doesn't come as easy for me to network. Um but it to me it just goes back to do you love people? And if you love people, there is a way that you can connect and be a blessing in their life. And and so for me, there was I'll I'll share a story with you that that might help. There was an album that we were recording at Elevation the last year I was there called Uh Old Church Basement. And I remember sitting at the top of the of the auditorium as the bands were rehearsing, and I had one of those moments where I was thinking, I don't really know what I'm contributing right now. I I see everybody else doing their thing, and I know I'm the leader, but what value am I adding? And I felt like the Lord said, Well, you can be the best encourager in the room. And that really just flipped something inside of me to where the next day I tried to find a moment where I could give some specific word of encouragement to everybody that I encountered. And what that's helped me with is how if I'm going into an interaction with someone, what can I deposit into their life?
SPEAKER_00That's so good.
SPEAKER_04And it doesn't have to be something super profound, it can be one word of encouragement. Yes, it can be a smile, it can be just people want to be seen. But if you can enter into conversations and interactions wanting to be a giver and not a taker, wanting to deposit something, impart something. I think that is the first step. It's having that that perspective, that worldview that every conversation is a gift and it's an opportunity for me to be the light of Christ in someone else's life.
SPEAKER_01That's so good. I've been hearing more and more that, you know, it's two ingredients that that allow a connection. Intentionality of the connection, and then the length and depth of the connection. Right. And you can't always do length and depth. Here's one way I stumbled into this. Most good things I've done, I just fell into, right? Just ask anyone who's met my wife. They're like, how in the world you pull that off? Oh. But I'm a little bit of a I got a weird life helping churches and leaders and schools and all. So I am like an NFL football coach watching film when it comes to messages. I watch them all the time. And not just the top 10 or whatever, you know. And I just happen to stumble into why don't I listen to one of our clients' messages on my Monday run from their yesterday service and then just text them a word and say, you know, that thing you said about whatever little thing in the message, that was good. You did a good job. And man, it is like I have cured cancer or something. It's like, William, you have no idea. And on a Monday, when pastors are all depressed and want to quit, like intention. But the other thing I've had to learn, and I'd love for you to please tell me I'm wrong or tell me a better way. Years and years ago, when I came to First Presbyterian to be the pastor, it was right in the Christmas season. It was kind of a traditional church with Sunday school and that sort of thing. So all the Sunday school parties are happening on the weekends right when I got there. So I'm gonna hit them all. That way I meet the whole church. And I'd go into a party and I'd stay 10, 15 minutes and then I'm out, right? And to get to the next one in the name of checking all the boxes because I'm 31 and I know everything. I was an idiot. One guy finally stopped me and said, you know, it took me a long time to realize I don't think people want me at this party if I'm only gonna stay 10 minutes. I and I'd about rather just not see you than see you blow in and leave. Because that tells me you got other things you gotta get to, and I'm a box you gotta check.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And man, that stuck with me. And it I was mad when he told me that, but he was wise. So, how do you balance the need to have uh a duration of connection with someone with the time crunch we're all facing, and I got nine things I gotta get done. And how do you balance that?
SPEAKER_04I mean, that's a great question. And I think there's levels of connection. You can't connect deeply with every single person that you come into contact with. I think there are people that are in your immediate circle with your family, your close friendships, the people that you're called to lead, that they're gonna get your best attention or your most frequent attention, but that doesn't mean other people can't get um the benefit of your presence. Um in the same way I said earlier that um better planning leads to greater presence, I would think that if you go into it's easy to go to like a Christian conference and like you said, you want to connect with everybody. I think it's better to go in and say, How can I be the person that I can engage at least one person in a meaningful conversation and not be looking over their shoulder to see, oh, is there somebody I deem more important? Or let me like let me make the rounds, like you said, and just get selfies with everybody else. No, if you can go in and be the person that is fully present with the person that is right in front of you, that is gonna mean more to that person, and you're gonna be known for that. You're gonna have a reputation for man, he is always he is the guy that is always he's a great listener, he really cares, and that reputation ends up opening doors for you as well because people know that you're not just a snoozer who's using them.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna air this podcast like every six months. Here's why. The need for that kind of connection is about to go through the roof. I mean, we saw four years ago, I can't believe it's been four years since we were all locked up in our houses, but like loneliness and the mental health crisis that's happened since then, a lot of it is we were not meant to be alone. Like it's the first malediction in scripture, it's the first curse God issues is it's not good that man be left alone, right? And I think as we see the the whether you want to call it beauty or curse or whatever, AI, and we begin to live in a more and more automated world, I think the hunger in people for that, he sat with me and he was fully present, and and he wasn't in a rush to leave. And instead of 10 minutes there, it's 15, not four hours. But uh, I'm I'm playing this on repeat, man. That is such good wisdom.
SPEAKER_04Oh, I'm glad it's helpful. And even just to let some people off the hook, too, there are times when you can't sit down and have that conversation with everybody. You've got to get up to preach in 15 minutes and someone stops you. You might not be able to have that conversation then. But are you at least allowing enough space in your life for that? And in the places where you can, are you going in with that intention? Um, I think that that makes people feel so loved and so seen. And honestly, it's low-hanging fruit to do that. It doesn't require you to connect.
SPEAKER_01Well, and the person, the person that you connect with on that level becomes your biggest evangelist, like you said earlier. I mean, I I'll never forget uh for many, many years, John Maxwell's poured way too much time and energy into me that I don't deserve. And when I first sort of got to know him, he said, Why don't you next time you're in Atlanta, come here and I got a golf tournament and love for you to be a part of it. So I just said yes because I wanted to, you know, go and figure it out on the way. And I knew like this is a golf tournament, so here's how this is gonna go. John's probably standing on a par three. We're all gonna play and we all play one hole with him, right? Or maybe it's riding the cart for three holes and he switches around to maximize his time. I mean, what nope? He pulled up in the parking lot in his golf cart and said, Okay, you're sitting here, and we were together all day. And then went over to his house to look at his library of Wesley's writings. And you'd have thought, uh, young William thought he is wasting so much time pouring into me, but this is probably the hundredth time I've told the story.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So it it just radically shifts how you are spoken of. And I wish I'd have known that sooner.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and the opposite's true too. When you're the guy who uses people, that gets spoken of as well.
SPEAKER_01Uh and so looking over the shoulder, as you say.
SPEAKER_04Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think people pick up on that much, much quicker, quicker than or oh my gosh, I've got to learn it. But like, he's the guy who, yeah, we had lunch, but every five minutes he picked up his phone.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01It was really important. Oh, okay. Now I know where I am.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, it well, it's funny you say that because I was telling someone the other day how I remember at elevation, I used to think, oh, I'm such an approachable leader. Like I tell my team all the time, hey, if you ever have a problem, come talk to me. And one day I at an end of the year, evil, I was asking some of them, you know, what does it feel like to be on the other side of me? And they told me, like, yes, you tell us that you're approachable, but because we always see you on your phone and in a hurry in between meetings, we assume that you're too busy and we don't want to bother you. And so I was giving off the impression that contradicted everything that I was telling my team I wanted them to believe and what my values were.
SPEAKER_01I'm still learning that, man. I've had to set like like you know, you can set what email, depending on what app you use, what emails come through to your lock screen and different vibration or ringtones for different things. So I've only got like about four email addresses that come through to the lock screen, and that's it. And if that comes through the lock screen and during lunch, guess what? You're the fifth most important person because there are four emails. It's my wife. Yeah, and I'm gonna answer, but uh man, I've because I want to please everybody. I want to uh I just want to answer, I want to respond. I want to yeah, yeah. Well, I uh I uh there's so much more we could do. Uh, this is not a Joe Rogan three and a half hour podcast, but it but man, what a treat. And you've taught me so much about uh things I'm trying to learn, and I hope that those who are trying to get in balance will contact you. That's really I'd love to help you with that, but I'm not trained in it like Wade is. So, Wade, where can people find you if they want to uh get your book or learn more about your consulting and how you can coach?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, they can go to wadejoy.com and just remember it's joy with an E. And uh our Instagram at WadeJoy, you'll find all the links there.
SPEAKER_01That's great. That's great. Well, man, I want to have you back. We are gonna repeat this. So many good things about finding balance. And uh for those of you who are listening and don't quite know the story, this is a guy who was arguably at the fastest growing meteor ride kind of church during the severe spike of growth. And now he's talking about balance. So if you're even saying, William, once I get these things done, I'll go find balance. And maybe you ought to call Wade because he might be able to help you find a both hand that works for you and honors the way we were created, and uh and and just sets you free from a lot of stuff that I wish I'd have gotten free from a lot earlier in life.
SPEAKER_04That's very kind of you. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Hey, thanks, Wade. Appreciate you, appreciate your friendship. God bless you and your work, man.
SPEAKER_04Thank you. It's been a great time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and thanks for joining us today on uh the Vanderblumen podcast. If you think we should be three and a half hours, tell us that. If you think we should be 20 minutes, tell us that. Love to hear your comments, any kind of ratings you've got. It helps us serve you. We love connecting with you and introducing you to the people we get to meet in the very unusual work that we do. So thanks for being with us, and we'll talk to you again soon.
SPEAKER_03Thanks for listening to the Vanderblomen Leadership Podcast. At Vanderblumen, we help organizations build their best teams for hiring, succession, culture, compensation, and diversity solutions. Visit our website, Vanderblumen.com to learn more and subscribe to our Vanderblomen Leadership Podcast or at Vanderblumen Podcast if you fight with our linked.