Welcome to the Banner Woman Leadership Podcast, where our team talks with top leaders about how to better serve and lead your team. Our goal is for you to gain tangible tips on topics such as culture, leadership, succession, and navigating people problems. We hope you enjoyed today's show.
SPEAKER_01Well, welcome back to the Vanderblumen Leadership Podcast. I'm Kristen. I'm one of the consultants here with Vanderblumen. I'm talking with Lauren, who is the executive director of 10K Fam, which thank you so much, Lauren, for being a part of this conversation. I think what 10K Fam is doing right now is very, very crucial to the worship space. So before we even, though, get into that, I would just love the people listening to hear a little bit about who you even are, what is uh sound bites of your story, and then how did that lead you to your role at 10K Fam?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So great question. I I I mean, I'm I've been a music nerd. Like I've always grown up singing, I've always grown up in church. So for probably a decade back in Atlanta, Georgia, I served as a worship pastor on staff at two different churches, not at the same time. But um, and that led me to get to know 10K Fam. Uh back then it was called 10,000 Fathers, and that was back in 2015, um, is when I first I was basically on staff at a church that hired some of the leaders then around 10K Fam to come in and lead worship alongside of them. And so um I got to know those guys and went through as a student. And so when I went through worship school, I was like I was already doing the job of a full-time worship leader, but I was also really experiencing a lot of like anxiety, a lot of stuckness in my own journey of being in ministry, especially being a woman in ministry. And um I just the Lord used 10K Fam in such a massive way in my own journey to just like unlock the way I was thinking about what leadership and life in ministry even looked like. And so I went through the worship school as a student from 2015 to 2016. And then I've I've stuck with them ever since. I have it just it's so massively impacted my own journey, not only as a leader, but like as a human, um, how I moved through life trying to, you know, be a disciple of Jesus and draw others into that. And so it's just, it's been such a formational thing in my own life that um I've continued on to, you know, I was a coach, I was a teacher, I have served in other capacities on the team um over the years. And then in I guess beginning of 2022, became the executive director. And so now I just get to volunteer as a worship leader around New Life Church here in Colorado Springs. Um, I love getting to do that in a volunteer capacity, and I love getting to do what I do now, which is just making sure that um we as an organization are sustainable and can keep pouring into leaders the way that I was poured into as a leader myself.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so that's interesting. You said a lot of interesting things that I want to unpack and hear more about your experience as a student. But before we get to that, back up and talk to us about who started 10K FAM and then what is 10K FAM? Because I think some of these names will be really familiar to people who are listening.
SPEAKER_02Sure. Yeah, so um 10K FAM was founded in 2008 by a guy named Aaron Keys. And when it first started, it was very much uh very organic, not very structured. Um, and at the time, Aaron was doing a lot of traveling and worship leading um around the country with his band. And and so what worship school looked like at that time was he would just have guys come and like live in his basement, just just come, you know, be on the road with me, do life with me. And the the school was birthed out of pastors going, we need people, like we want worship pastors at our church who are leading the way that you're leading. Like we want people who are valuing this kind of thoughtfulness, this kind of like um theological depth and awareness and all that. And so uh we were he was continually getting asked, like from pastors, hey, we want to hire somebody who leads like that. Uh and so how can we do that? And so he's like, Well, there's really no one else training leaders in these ways right now, so let's do that. So that's that's how the uh the organization was birthed. Um, it has shifted a lot of obviously over the course of the years. In 2013, it became like an actual uh corporation, it became a nonprofit. And so for about it's been 11 years since it's been in its current form of being like an 18-month discipleship school that is this sort of hybrid model of um intensives where students come on site to learn stuff, but then we send them back into their context. And so, like, they're not they're not actually coming and moving and doing a residency with us. Um, so that's that was the reason it was founded was just this recognition of like pastors really want their worship leader, their worship pastor, to be somebody who is truly shepherding their congregation, who they can trust theologically, who like these people have studied the Bible. And we've just sort of gotten into this. Um, the modern, you know, contemporary church has sort of gotten into this place of it's become very normal for us to put a worship leader on stage who hasn't actually had any training like that. And it's it's really, it's really very dangerous, I think. Um, and it's kind of a problem that we at 10K Fam are hoping to solve and to be a resource for churches to get whole healthy, you know, theologically insightful sound leaders up on stage, not just somebody who can, you know, sing and play guitar well.
SPEAKER_01Right. Okay, so 10K Fam, there's a worship school. So so for people who might not be familiar with that, when we hear school, we just naturally assume, okay, we attend school full time for X amount of months or X amount of years, we do nothing else, you know, we live on campus or we live near campus. So that's probably what all of our brains automatically associate the word school with. So when you guys use that word, what does that mean? So let's say a potential student wants to go to worship school, what will that look like for them?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's great. This is so helpful because honestly, like I've been entrenched in it for so long that some I say something, I'm like, oh right, I forget that other people are not thinking that. Yeah. So thank you for asking that question. Um yes, so so what our school looks like, we we do call it worship school, and I think the two things that are important to know is one, a lot of times when people hear the word worship school, they think, well, it's for people who want to learn how to be worship leaders. They want to like they're not doing it yet and they want to do that, and so they would come to school to do that. That's not really what we we can talk more about that in a minute, but like that that is a little bit of a misnomer in terms of you know what we do. We we primarily train leaders who are actually already worship leaders, um, not ones who are just hoping to be worship leaders. Um, but also the way that our school works is it's an 18-month, it's really a discipleship journey. It's an 18-month commitment. Um, that 18 months is broken up into three six-month tracks. Each track has its own focus. And so, track one, for the first six months, we focus heavily on character, spiritual formation, biblical interpretation, things like that. Um, track two is heavily focused on competency. So communicating from stage. We do a lot of songwriting. We have a huge heart for leaders, um, like writing songs for their own congregations. Um, and then track three is we're like, okay, we've poured into you for a year. Now we're gonna give you some very practical discipleship tools to help you go do what we've done in you to the people in your context. And so it's this, it's this sending this is this we call it raising and releasing, right? Like our mission statement is raising and releasing spiritual mothers and fathers who creatively shape the future of the church. And so essentially, we are we are bringing leaders in to a heavily relational context where they have a coach, they they're walked through the entire journey in a huddle of like six to eight people with a coach who is a seasoned worship leader. Almost all of our coaches have master's degrees in worship or some kind of theology. Um and so the it looks very different. It's very much designed to be done on top of a full-time job, life, family. Like it's not, it's not by any means something where we're expecting people to quit their jobs or you need to come back in other areas in order to attend worship school. Really, the beauty of it is that a lot of the content is we find that it's most impactful to be unto be like processed in the context of their actual life and ministry. That's why we don't want them to come just like fully remove yourself from your life for six months or 18 months or whatever. Like, be in your life, help us like we'll walk with you through that. Like we'll journey with you through that. And you get to process the things, the challenges that you're facing in ministry, in your family, whatever it is, like we get to walk with you in that. And so it's very much, it's not a traditional school model, but it is actually accredited. And so our content, like our 18-month content, is fully accredited at the master's level. So by the time you finish with us, you're a third of the way through a Master of Arts and Worship degree at two of our partnering schools, Northern Seminary and Visible Music College. So it does actually count as credit, which is amazing, but it doesn't feel like traditional school. You know, you're not like writing 20-page seminary papers, but you're still getting seminary credit. So awesome.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh, I know. Partial master's accreditation is very significant. That is a very big deal. Okay, so because they're not going to worship school full-time, do they live near where like where are they living?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, we have students from literally all over the world. We, I mean, I had a guy come in from South Africa uh uh in when it was that November who graduated. So literally we have students all over the world. Um, we most of our students are from the US, but all over, West Coast, East Coast, it doesn't matter. They they only come on site during the intensives. And so at the beginning of each of the six months, there's like a Monday through Friday intensive that is on site here in Colorado Springs. Um, so they're flying in for that. Um there we do have a fully online version of the school. And so, for instance, the guy who just graduated from South Africa, he actually did the full 18 months online and only came in for graduation at the very end. So we're very flexible with how that works. But yeah, we um we we try to time our huddles so that people even overseas are are able to be part of the group with people here in the States. Um, I would say probably 90, 90 to maybe 90-ish percent of our students are in the US. Um, but they're just flying in for that week at the beginning of each of the six months and spending time together and sharing meals and you know, sitting in sessions, receiving lots of content. And it's great, it's great community like bonding time for the groups. It's really fun for them. Uh, so most of our students do experience that fully like on-site version of the school, but um, all of our content is also recorded. So technically, you do not even have to leave your house and you could still come through worship school and graduate.
SPEAKER_01Gosh, technology, it's incredibly convenient.
SPEAKER_02It really is. Really is.
SPEAKER_01Do you ever have churches who send their worship leader, their worship pastor to your school?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Yeah, I'd say at any given time, probably at least half of our worship leaders who are in worship school are being sent by their church. Their church is actually paying for them to come through worship school. Um, and it is incredible to see and hear the stories of like I literally talked to a pastor a few months ago who his um worship leader is in track two, and he is just like, he's raving about what growth he's seen in her and just like this, she's really stepping into the her calling and her anointing, and there's just so much authority in the way she leads, and he like he's seeing the difference after just the first six months with us. And so absolutely, it's something that we really try to encourage um pastors to care for your worship pastor in this way because not only are they getting community with other worship pastors, they're getting spiritual formation, like they're getting, they're learning how to walk through life more holistically as a better human. It's gonna make them a better leader, it's gonna make them uh more sustainable in ministry. Like we're caring for these leaders in a very nurturing, safe environment. And they get to go bring that back, walking in their full identity and calling and and all of this, like back into their contexts. And so just the growth that we see is is incredible. And it's it's always such a huge um, it I it just it warms my heart so much to like actually hear from pastors who are seeing this. They're they're seeing the fruit of this within the first six months of their worship leader. It's really incredible.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I bet. It also makes me think of do you ever have students who will come to the school and maybe they are not currently working at a church and they've hit they want to be working at a church, their dream is is to be a worship pastor at some church and they keep hearing no, no, no, dead end, dead end, dead end. So they enroll themselves as just as just a way to give them more tools to their toolbox. Like, how often does that happen? And how often does that work? That happens a lot.
SPEAKER_02It happens a lot. So uh uh the the other half who are not being uh funded by their churches are are exactly in the position you're in. They are either they want to be a full-time, many of them will like come in articulating, I would like to be a full-time worship leader, I just haven't had any formal training. We're like, okay, perfect. Like, love that. You obviously have the heart of a learner, you want to invest in yourself in this way. Please, yes, like we'll walk with you. And um, you know, it's it's I think it's it's a lot different from like committing to going back to seminary or to going to get a full, like a four-year undergraduate degree in worship or whatever, right? Like we the ways that we train leaders are certainly different than than some of those other types of environments, but um because of the high relational capacity that are or uh just the relational nature of what we do, I think there's a like a lot of growth happens really quickly. It's within that 18 months. So um, so yes, we absolutely have a lot of students that who who are exactly what you described. And then there's another group who were like they volunteer at their church in the worship department and they love worship and they know that that's like a calling on their life, but they wouldn't necessarily have articulated that they ever wanted to do it vocationally. But then they come through worship school and it's like a fire is ignited in them, and they're they all of a sudden they're like, maybe I can do this. Like I never thought this was a possibility for me, but now I actually really do. And now I feel like I have the resources to be able to lead and step into that. And so that's that's a really neat thing to see happen uh as well. That's honestly like one of my favorite things is when someone comes in thinking, oh no, I have full-time vocational ministry, maybe not for me. And then by the time they leave, they're just like, I can't believe like how how prepared and like passionate I feel about stepping into this. So it's really good. But we, I mean, it's a it's a really interesting environment, right? To get people who who are not even yet worship leaders who maybe want to be, and then like we have worship leaders who've been worship leaders for decades, who just have never really been trained in the ways of like leading a team or multiplying yourself, like those kinds of things. Those are those are skills that you have to learn. Those are those are not just natural traits for most people. And so it's really amazing to get leaders from all walks like that into one space, into huddles together, processing together, doing life together. It's I think that's why so much learning can occur so quickly because of just how consolidated those kinds of people are in one space. It's really, it's really special and it's it's incredible.
SPEAKER_01I mean, even as you're talking, it I can imagine how exponential the growth would be in so many different areas because in my role, I sit and talk with candidates, worship candidates specifically, all the time as they are applying for different roles, and so we're having conversations. And I, you know, more time often, I will say, I don't want to say more times than not, but I will say often, I'm having conversations with these candidates, and I'm thinking, gosh, you're almost there. You just have some soft skills that you could really use on, or they're wildly talented, or they have incredible potential, but they've never been in environments that could help bring that out. They were just never exposed to solid leadership. And so I think of those people and how worship school for them would be incredibly life-changing for them to do that, which also makes me think of okay, so the worship school students, is there a target age or a target church size, or even like a target demographic of who would, I guess, benefit the most by going to a worship school?
SPEAKER_02It's great. I love it. Um, so we do have an age minimum of 20. So uh yeah, so we have an age minimum. The reason for that, we don't have an age maximum. We have had people come through in their 50s, and I think we've had some in their 60s, a couple in their 60s. Um our most common age range is 20s, 30s, and some early 40s. Um, we say there's an age minimum because a lot of what we walk through with spiritual formation, um, a lot of just understanding how you're wired and um a lot of like deep identity work, that kind of stuff, that it takes a level of maturity to be able to engage with that kind of content in a way that's really transformational and productive. And so we just want to make sure that people are at a place in their own journey to be able to receive that well and to be able to participate in the cut the conversations that happen in the huddles, you know, well. And so um we will take, we will take 20 most of the time if a candidate's coming to me and they're 19, 20, they're kind of right on the line, like I'll I'll probably want to talk to somebody some references and just really get a sense of like their spiritual maturity and you know what they've walked through so far to make sure that worship school is the right thing for them at that time. Um so so yeah, so that that is kind of one consideration that that we have that we work with. But yeah, I mean, in terms of our target demographic, we I mean, we serve leaders who and welcome leaders who are serving at churches of all different sizes and honestly, even all different um denominational backgrounds. Like we we are not affiliated with a particular denomination. And so um it gives us the ability to um to have some really deep um productive conversations with people who have been raised differently and who have different experiences, and even even to the extent of like people who grew up in more much more like um traditional worship expressions in their churches, all the way to people who are, you know, more charismatic expressions of worship. So we have um we have students from all walks, and it's it's one of the things that I think is really beautiful about the expression of who 10K FAM is because so much of what we value is being able to see like and walk with and and hold and treasure like each human for what gift they carry, not because they agree with you on certain things or they disagree with you here, whatever. It's like we have to be able to have productive conversations with people who who differ in our experience and our uh you know view on life and politics and all the things. And that's not always easy, obviously, but like that's also kind of what we feel that's what that's what we're being called into or being called into ministry, is being called into like loving people well and walking alongside them well. And so one of the ways that we model that is being very welcoming to people of different you know denominational backgrounds and affiliations and churches that have 5,000 on a Sunday and churches that have 200 on a Sunday. So there's no no no one is more valuable because they serve at a bigger church or a smaller church. Like you are doing kingdom work, you're doing kingdom work, and that's that's it, period. So we're here to serve you and equip you and love you in that.
SPEAKER_01So right. I love that, especially for someone. It's if someone's listening right now and they think, gosh, I'm not sure if my church is too small or my church is too liberal or my church is too conservative. But so that's very helpful, thank you, because there is no such thing as being too fill in the blank. Not a thing. That's great. Not my kingdom. Yeah, that's very helpful. You said something earlier about so when the students are in huddles, they have, I forget what you called it, either a coach or a mentor that walks a coach. Okay. Who are those coaches? Like, who are those coaches? Where do they come from? Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02So the coaches are uh previous grads. So a lot of the students who, especially like the students who are coming through worship school because they're going, okay, I've been a worship leader, I have lots of experience. Um, I want to be able to walk a lot, like I want to be able to coach people, mentor people, um, but I've just never learned how to do that. So we'll have people come through worship school specifically for the purpose of I want to be a coach one day. And and so they'll come through. They'll do the whole 18 months. Um, and then most of our coaches do because of our master's level accreditation, we really tried for the majority of our coaches, certainly the majority of our teachers, to have those kind of master's like higher education degrees. Um, and so many of our coaches are they're all graduates. They most of them have some kind of either a spiritual direction, you know, license or whatever, or like an actual master, master of arts and worship degree or an MDiv or whatever. Um, and most of them are also full-time in ministry themselves. And so they're just a little further down the road than the people in their huddle that they're coaching. But the the the thing about the thing, the way that we talk about our coaches is we're not, it's not that we're putting people in a position of being a coach because they like have all the answers or whatever. That it's it's not that at all. It's just, it's just there's such beauty in um in having access to someone like that who is committing for a season to being fully present with you and walking with you and processing with you and helping you hear the voice of the Lord in your journey and you know, be discerning and all this kind of like invite you, challenge you, love you, you know, all these kinds of things. So, yeah, our coaches are the simple answer is they're alumni. Okay, they're alumni who have a heart for what we do, and they're just like, Yes, I was transformed by this. I want to be a coach. That's my story. I went through, I was like, Yes, I want to be a coach, please sign me up. And it's a big commitment, but it's also big, it's a big life change and it's long-lasting fruit that happens on the other side of it. So yes.
SPEAKER_01Okay, you just touched on the question that I've been sitting on since the beginning. Because you went you went through as a student first before you ever got into this role and ever worked as the executive director, ever worked as a coach or sat as a coach. So think back to your time as a student for someone who is listening to this and thinking, gosh, maybe I'll consider sending my worship pastor, or for a worship pastor listening, going, um, like talk, give one or two things that you specifically walked away with and how that transformed your life. Oh, that's so good.
SPEAKER_02Uh putting myself back in my worship school days. Yeah. Um, I think one of the things that was true for me, and that it honestly is the consistent, it's the consistent response we get from the vast majority of our alumni, is um what I came into it experiencing was the this richness of community, like I had never found before. I had just never been in a situation where like here was a group of six other people and a leader who was full of wisdom and who was committing to being present to me and to listening to my journey and to like holding space for me and helping me prosper. Like that's that's so rare. That kind of connection and that kind of um just intimate community is something that's really hard to find these days. And so, and and I think something that we all really deeply long for because it's wired into who we are as humans, right? Like gosh, yes. This need for community. So I think that's that was the biggest thing that that I experienced in it. The funny thing is I think a lot of people don't go into it thinking, like some people will go, I know I need community, you know, but they don't really get it. Like they don't, they don't know what they're missing because they haven't really experienced it yet. And once you get a taste, you're like, oh my gosh, like this is this this is the sweetest and most wonderful thing ever. I can't believe I thought it was okay to live, like to lead, to try to lead without this, you know. Um, and so that was a big, that was a big part of my journey um and a big part of the thing that I walked away valuing. Um and then I think on a on a more personal level for me, it was I was dealing with so much. I was in my mid-20s, mid to late 20s, I was dealing with so much anxiety in my life. Just like I mean, medicate like medicated, you know, panic attack. Like, like I was just dealing with so much anxiety. And it to the point where like it was I just I remember having thoughts of like, this cannot be what this cannot be what my the rest of my life should be supposed to look like. Like this, this something's gotta shift. I can't do this forever. Um, and and I just knew, like I didn't know what the answer was. I just knew that like whatever the way that I was operating and moving through life was did not seem life giving to me. It was actually incredibly anxiety-inducing and something had to shift. And and what I found was being brought into this space and into this community where there was such a level of like safety, but also so many tools of like look, I don't know if you've ever processed like the lies that you have believed about your life growing up and and like the truth that the Lord speaks over you. Like, have you have you done like listening prayer and you know, thought like I just never done that kind of soul work before, honestly? And and it was the thing that like it's like I wasn't fully in touch with myself and who the Lord had created me to be. And and I just needed like I needed community to to help unlock that and stir that up. And so it just that's I I look back at like who I was before worship school, and I honestly like I barely recognize who I was beforehand because my life, my life, like my literal everyday way that I go through life looks and feels, I experience it so much differently because I feel so much more freed up inside and in like who I who I am, who God has designed me to be. And like I'm able to now like look at other other people and other women in worship space and go, like, you're not my competition. There's no jealousy here. It's fine. I right like it just it just makes you be such a healthier, like human and healthier leader, and just like you just walk in that confidence, and it's it's just so freeing and so um there's just like a there's just like a a piece in it that yes, I had never had before. So yeah, that that was my that was my experience, and I'm I'm so so so grateful for it. And I I love getting to be on the front lines seeing the same exact things happening in leaders who come to us. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01I bet it's amazing. I bet that's incredibly powerful. Okay, so then oh that brings me to the last question, logistically. Then, okay, so someone's listening and they're like, okay, well, I want what Lauren has. That's what I need that. So I need that in my life. So it's a two-part question. How do they do they have to apply for worship school? And then what is the timeline for that? Like, I'm assuming there's actual start and stop dates to worship school.
SPEAKER_02There are. Yes. Okay, great. Yes. Logistics and practicalities. Here we go. I love this. So, yes, so we kick off worship schools only twice a year. We kick them off once in the spring and once in the fall. So we are actually in our recruiting cycle right now. Our next intensive is happening April 15th through the 19th in Colorado Springs or on again online. You don't have to come on site. Um, so April 15th to 19th, we will be recruiting until probably um mid to late March. Uh we we can be pretty flexible on, we don't have like a hard, hard cutoff on when we stop accepting applications. There is an application, it is on our website, 10kfam.org. Um, if you go there, you can read more about the worship school, how it works. There's even a PDF of some curriculum stuff that you can get a sense of. Um, but there's an application process. It's fairly straightforward. It's, you know, asking your history, how'd you hear about us? Why, you know, why do you want to do worship school? Tell us about some of your strengths and weaknesses. And then we do ask for a pastoral reference and then a video of you leading, singing. It doesn't have to be like an actual church service. You can literally just record a video of singing into your phone. We're just trying to gauge musicality. Um, so yeah, so there's an application, it's free to apply. Um, and then we'll, you know, we process we try to process that very quickly. And then um, so yeah, so we'll kick off in April, and then our next kickoff would be in the fall, in October. I'm okay. I I don't want to, I think it's October 20th through 24th, but it's our next kickoff is October. So it's twice a year. You get the opportunity to jump in to that year and a half journey. And then you're basically coming. The intensives are we have everyone who's at any point in the journey. So, like track one, track two, track three grads, like everybody comes on site together for you know, those two intensives that happen each year. So you're getting to meet not only the people in your own class, but people who are six months, a year, 18 months ahead of you in the journey, which is really cool. So, yeah, I would encourage you to apply. And and of course, if you have questions, I'm also happy to um to help answer any of those. There's a there's a contact us form on the website as well. If you fill that out, it will come directly to me and happy to talk to somebody over the phone or over text or whatever to help answer some of those questions. Um, but yeah, I would encourage you to consider it. It's if you especially if you're a leader who either feels like you need a little bit more equipping or you're in ministry, you feel a little stuck, um, or just you just need some more tools. You want community. Like there's so many reasons to do worship school. I've I've literally never had anyone do worship school and be like, man, that was a waste of time. Gosh, really regret that. Nope. Everyone's like, oh my goodness, I had no idea this would be so transformative. So would definitely encourage you to come on, we'd love to have you.
SPEAKER_01It'd be fun. That's perfect. Gosh, that's so helpful. So if you're driving in your car right now, 10kfam.org, when you stop, when you are um at your destination and it is safe, you we will link, we'll link in the in the podcast notes as well. So that way you can have access to it. But thank you, Lauren. Thank you so much. I mean, thank you. It makes me wish that I, you know, had worship in my background that I could have gone through worship school.
SPEAKER_02We are we are this is a whole another podcast, but we are we are very seriously considering opening it up in the fall to non non-musicians and non-worship leaders because so much of our content is actually not specific to music. So much of this is spiritual formation, discipleship, all leadership. So like maybe one day, Kristen, maybe one day you can that that's like a that's uh that's good intelligent.
SPEAKER_01Ministry school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That can potentially that we just may have just revealed a sneak peek. I know. Gosh, thank you. Anyway, thank you for having the conversation. I I hope this has been helpful to people. We really, really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much, Kristen. Really enjoy the opportunity.
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