Welcome to the Banner Women Leadership Podcast. I'm your host, Kristen Idee, Manager of Marketing and Business Development here at Banner Women. In today's podcast, our account manager, Terry Summers, talks with Greg Adams. Greg is the founder and CEO of Worship Impressions, the first Impressions Conference, as well as the co-founder of the Social Media Church Conference. Greg is an entrepreneur, best-selling author, speaker, coach, and consultant. Greg joins the podcast to emphasize the secret power of kindness. He shares that it's time for this overlooked and underappreciated fruit of the spirit to get its due. His message serves as a reminder of our responsibility in building a world full of kindness. We hope you enjoy this conversation.
SPEAKER_02Hey everyone, welcome to the Vanderblumen Leadership Podcast. My name's Carrie. I'm on the client relations team here at Vanderblumen, and we are excited to welcome Greg Adkinson onto the show today. Greg and I were just talking, this is his actual third appearance. So he's becoming a regular on the show with us here. But in case you don't know Greg, uh he's the founder and CEO of Worship Impressions and the First Impressions Conference and the Entrepreneurial Church Conference, which is coming uh in this year, as well as the co-founder of the Social Media Church Conference. And so Greg has been helping the church, helping church leaders for three decades now. And we are just so excited to have him on, sharing with us a little bit today. Greg, welcome. Thank you for being here again.
SPEAKER_03Hey, thank you for having me. Honored to be back.
SPEAKER_02Uh yes, I I love the background you have there. If you're listening and you can't see his background, hustle, grind, and execution, uh spoken from someone who truly is about getting some things done for the kingdom. So love to see that. Well, Greg, you've been helping the kingdom of God uh for three decades now. And so as we kind of kick off and get started, you started in the worship world. And so I I would love to hear maybe from you just a little bit of how have you seen the worship movement evolve in the Western church over these past three decades of helping the church and building the kingdom.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, specifically in worship, I saw it change a ton. You know, when I first started, we were uh using um slide projectors and uh overheads and um hymnals and singing hymns with piano and organ, and I directed a choir, I directed an orchestra, and um I had to introduce, and this is in the um early 90s, I had to introduce multimedia, uh, getting the church's first ever um projector and uh starting PowerPoint and doing slides for the first time and things that uh you know nobody knew what PowerPoint was. And um I ended up picking it up very quickly, and that's how I first got it started speaking at conferences in 2000. I've been speaking for 23 years, but I started out teaching churches how to use media and specifically how to use PowerPoint because a lot of pastors were wanting to use PowerPoint for their sermons, but they didn't know how to do it. And so I also went through in the the worship wars and introducing drums into a Baptist church, which was a big deal, starting a praising and all these first. I'm still here, I'm still I'm still around, but it was it was a lot of first uh first time doing this, this, this, this. And so I I introduce things on the visual media side, and then I introduced new instruments from drums to percussion to guitar to bass and all this stuff that was different from a piano and an organ, and uh so just a whole lot of firsts, and um it was uh a lot of experimenting in the early 90s and um trying things for the first time, trying to push things forward. That was a big push towards blended worship, if you remember that. And people were um trying to mix in some worship courses along with the hymns. And then in 2000, 23 years ago, um I actually was talking about it today because I I have recently moved back to North Carolina, but I lived in North Carolina in 2000 and I came to be at a fully contemporary church where it was all praise and worship and all band driven, uh, no choir for the first time. And so when I went for my license today, she showed me my license picture from 2000 and what I looked like 23 years ago. And I was like, wow. And my daughter was born that year. She just graduated college and I'm moving her into grad school tomorrow. I have to drive to Virginia Tech to move her into her new apartment. So a lot has changed since I last lived in North Carolina and last had a North Carolina license. But um, but that was a big change for me professionally, because in 2000 is when I left behind uh traditional music, I left behind blended music, I left behind choir and orchestra, and I went full steam ahead with what was called contemporary worship, with uh a band-driven approach, and um started to lead every single week from guitar back at my uh previous church in the 90s where I did blended worship. I would just play guitar on Sunday night because you know you can get away with a lot of stuff on a Sunday night at a more traditional church. It was more forgiving on a Sunday night because just the core and faithful came back out. So um, so when I went through a lot in those years and I've seen a lot of changes, and now the things that people are doing in um in worship are um have come a long way. Um, I was just visiting a church this past Sunday and they were doing the at the movie series, and there was a giant uh stormtroopers walking around and giant Star Wars machines, and it was um it was neat to see just how far things have come.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's awesome. I uh you know, as you recount some of that, I imagine there's some pastors listening right now that they just had some bad flashbacks of us who were thinking, hey, I wanted to never think about that again. But I think it's amazing for us to sometimes take that bigger picture view. You know, we can get so caught in the moment of just what's happening right now and just not realize how much God has done in those past 30 years, right? How how much our world has changed. And we talk about this from a culture standpoint and from a technology standpoint, but even in the church, how that's permeated in these past 30 years and really to help reach our people, right? Like those changes aren't all happening just because it's someone's preference, but an understanding of hey, how do we engage the culture of the time? And you know, I think about Jesus and his parables, he's using parables that connect with his audience in that time frame. And so uh I know for me growing up in this age and and being a pastor over these years, it's been awesome to see us be willing to experiment, willing to try new things to be able to go after people's hearts so that they get to know the Lord. So with that, what are some of the things that you get to work with all kinds of churches now? Uh, what are some of the things you're seeing in the big C church right now that you just love? Some of those experimentations you just talked about uh at the movies type of stuff, and kind of some of that out of the box. What are some things you're seeing that uh maybe even you've only seen it once? But this is a great opportunity to spread it so more people get some exposure.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so for the last eight years, I have left uh being on a local church staff, even though I still volunteer and help at my local church, but I um have been running my own consulting company for the last eight years. I actually started consulting in 2005, 18 years ago, but I've been full-time with it for eight years. And so I see a lot as I travel. And what I have noticed uh as you talk about what's changed is post-COVID, post-2020, uh QR codes have come back. And there's there's a big push to uh people, you know, during 2020 uh did not want to print things, they didn't want to hand out things, they didn't want anybody touching things. So QR codes came raging back, and people were still using QR codes for digital connection cards and announcements and um go sign up here and all the stuff that you can do just by pointing your phone at a QR code. I watch a lot of churches each week on YouTube just to keep up with them. And when they're doing announcements, they'll have a QR code lower third come up on the screen. I was watching um the Belonging Co in Nashville recently, and they had QR code come up and they were saying, you know, go here to register, or if you're a first-time guest, we want to welcome you, fill this out, and the QR code is up there as they're speaking. And it's so easy, you know, as I'm sitting in my recliner at home to point to the TV and uh open that up uh as I as I go back and watch them. But um there's also been a push for uh more engagement, uh not just digitally, but just in-person engagement and uh a big push for community. You know, when we got isolated, when we were shut down, when we couldn't go out during the 2020, 2021 years, um people realized they really miss community. They miss fellowship, they miss hanging out with people. And so now there's a um we, you know, we host small group here in my home. Uh, we have people here at my house uh for small group, but people miss fellowshipping and hanging out and breaking bread and eating together. And so um, so there's been a huge revival of small group ministry, um, along with using digital technology like a QR code or something like that to help people engage. And so um some really things that I think are positive that I've seen happen over the last few years.
SPEAKER_02That's great. I like and I love that the blending of the digital world with the in-person world. I've uh I was an executive pastor at a church kind of through COVID and helping navigate through all of that. And once we kind of got on the backside, it was almost like we got into another worship wars of can you do online worship and should you keep doing it even though it's not COVID? And you know, gotta be in person or you gotta allow online. I love the idea that we can have both, right? That that no one today lives a completely isolated world away from technology, and no one lives completely isolated away from other people. At least it's not healthy for us to do that, and so the ability for us to merge those together. And so, you know, if you're a pastor out there listening, like I would just encourage you what are the ways God would be calling you to kind of leverage the technology available, and that doesn't mean you got to go full digital on everything, but what is it that you can take and blend and mix together? So love that, love that insight, Greg.
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SPEAKER_02Uh Greg, one of the things you do is Secret Shopper. Uh, and I love this, uh, but some people may not know what secret secret shopper is. So talk to us a little bit about just when you do secret shopper, what that is. Uh, and then maybe give us if you have a fun story that you would want to share about one of your times doing secret shopper for churches.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so you know, the secret shopper concept originated in the business world. A lot of people are familiar or aware that that places like banks and restaurants and hotels get secret shopped, um, stores in the mall, department stores, they all get secret shopped where somebody comes in, pretends to be a customer, pretends to buy something, or actually buys something, or actually orders a dinner at a restaurant. I've done that. I secret shopped in the business world, but they they order something and then they evaluate the experience of how was I treated? What was the customer service like? Did they welcome me? Did they greet me? Did they say goodbye when I left the restaurant? All these things that we look for. And then I do the same thing in the church world. And I was not the first one. Um, there were some guys doing secret shopper before me. I just kind of made it more known after writing a book on secret shopping. And so I started secret shopping specifically, like I mentioned, I started consulting in 2005, but 2009 is when I started my secret shopper company, Worship Impressions. And we've worked with over 200 churches. Uh, and that's just me going in to visit a church. So I've seen a lot of churches and um said on one podcast, I'm a professional and getting lost, you know, just being able to go in and not know where I am or where anything is. This church I visited this past Sunday, it took me a little bit to find the auditorium. I was walking around and looking, trying to help myself and see if I could find where the auditorium was. Like I said, they had all the at the movies stuff up, and so the the lobby was decorated differently, and there was a lot of stuff in the way that uh made it difficult for me to see clearly where the auditorium was. But um but it is fun to go in. I primarily work with probably 90% of the time the executive pastor, he's the one that contacts me, he's the only one that knows I'm coming, he's the one that arranges everything. Sometimes the other 10%, it's the senior pastor who will just personally reach out and say, Hey, Greg, we want you to come in, and I don't want anybody to know. And so the whole emphasis is that it's a secret, that's a secret shopper. And so you don't want your worship pastor to know because he'll put up his best singers, his 18, pick his best songs, and so you know, you don't you don't want anybody to know you're coming. But um, but but but the book I mentioned, Secrets of a Secret Shopper, I wrote so that smaller churches could secret shop their own church and wouldn't have to hire an outside consultant because it's very expensive. And so if it sounds intimidating, the thought of hiring a consultant, especially in a post-COVID world where churches may be struggling with budget, um, then you could just read through the book quickly and kind of do your own. That was kind of the intent behind it. But there's been a lot of interesting things that have happened because I'm a secret shopper, I also check security. So I've gone places where I shouldn't go, and I've tried to get into children's ministry and go down halls I shouldn't go down, and I have been um nearly arrested, nearly taped.
SPEAKER_02That's great, though. That's great.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I've been background checked uh from somebody that had me fill out like a guest form, and then I went to lunch after the service with the executive pastor, and he said, I'm not sure if you're aware or not, but they ran a background check on you. But um it's just been uh it's been interesting. I am uh I'm good at intentionally getting lost and going down the wrong hall and trying to see where I can get and if I can get away. And you would be surprised the amount of times where I have told a pastor or executive pastor where I was and what I saw, and their face turned white. They just couldn't believe that I was able to get so close to their children. Um and um if I can do it, there's people a lot more um cunning with bad intentions that can do it. And so um they made changes after my evaluation, after my report. Uh, and it's like a hundred-page report, it's a very detailed report. But when I go over that, uh we meet via Zoom when I fly back and we go through um the report and they I give them action steps and they um they fix that. And so they put up uh things in place that that allow you to not be able to get where you shouldn't be able to get. And so it's helped a lot of churches. There's been some great churches that um were knocking at it out of the park when it came to preaching and music. I can name a church right now that is one of the fastest growing churches in the country with a well-known preacher and well-known worship leader, but their security was lacking. And so uh it just allows them to share up every area, every area and um get to where they need to be to protect the people who are entrusting them with their kids.
SPEAKER_02That's great. That's great. And so just an encouragement for our pastors out there that that that's a huge part of what we do is just being able to understand, hey, what's happening in our own church. And uh for I I know being on staff and having preaching responsibilities, it's hard to do all that when you're preaching. Uh and and so even to have some people on your team having those fresh new eyes come in. That's great. That's great. Well, you mentioned that you had a book on that, but you also have a new book coming out. So let's spend some time talk about uh your new book. It's coming out, The Secret Power of Kindness. And uh here's uh just a little snippet. Uh, the secret power of kindness is the self-awareness to know that you have the power to make or break someone else's day and eventually change the world. Kindness has no hidden agenda or strings attached, its only purpose is to express love to another soul made in the image of God. Man, I love that. And as someone who travels and you get into TSA lines and just smile, right? And say hello to them. It makes such a difference. Talk to us a little bit about the secret power of kindness, why you wrote this book, what you're hoping that God will do with it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and by the way, it's out right now. You can go get it today. It is it is released, it's out, it's been doing great. It was uh number one bestseller, number one new release for six, seven weeks, but um, it is it is out there and the response has been great. I've got testimonies from grown women that cried when they read my story in the first chapter, grown men that cried when they read my story in the first chapter. I've heard from counselors and therapists that said they were going to recommend it after a practice to all their clients. Um, because I dive into um uh my story of abuse and trauma and um church hurt and uh family wounds and things that I've gone through. And so it's been um, by the way, there's a totally free U version devotional that goes along with it, also called the Secret Power of Kindness. So if you want to just test the waters and read through it and see what you think for free, it's just like there's 10 chapters in the book, it's a 10-day devotional. So you can totally read that and see if you're interested in it. But that uh snip snippet that you read uh there at the beginning about how we have the power to make or break somebody else's day. And its only purpose is to express love to another soul made in the image of God. I wrote that at 12 30 a.m. I just woke up and I had this thought in my mind of this is how I want to describe the secret power of kindness. And so I woke up at 12 30, wrote it down on my phone in the notes app, and then the next day carried it over to my manuscript. But um, it's been amazing to see the response. I have been working on this. I first wrote the book. Proposal four years ago.
SPEAKER_00Oh wow.
SPEAKER_03So it's been a it's been a journey. And um I partnered with an old 20-year friend of mine who has uh a newer publishing company, and he wanted to have me go all in on this fruit of the spirit, this little talked-about fruit of the spirit of kindness. And um, he actually flew to my house, met with me in person, and he's uh he had read the proposal I wrote. It was a different name at the time, and he said, Greg, I think you've got a whole book on the power of kindness. Let's go all in on kindness. And um, the response has been amazing because I have had the opportunity here where I live in Charlotte to talk with several people about um the uh the book, and they're not Christian, they're not Christian at all. Uh, I would meet somebody, a nurse, a doctor, a chiropractor, somebody out in the community, a business leader, and I would mention that I had a new book coming out on kindness, and they said, Oh, right on. I would love to read that. That's awesome. And so I have had the opportunity to give multiple copies of my book to business leaders in the community and family members that are not believers, and they all want to read it because um, one, they're just being kind towards me, but two, they're they're all about kindness. Everybody can get behind that. Whether you're Christian or non-Christian, people think, you know what, this world does need more kindness. This world would be a better place if we had more kindness. And so there have been a lot of people with no faith background or a different faith background, and a ton of Christians that have read the book and reviewed the book and got something out of it where they realize that we do have the opportunity together, me and you, to change the world.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's great. That's great. You know, you talk about just some of the different experiences you had in life and things like church hurt and all of that. Man, maybe let's take it back. Why is it that you think we get out of a kindness cycle? I mean, especially as Christians, we've had the kindest thing that could ever happen to us happen in the redemption of Jesus, uh connecting us to our heavenly father. What is it that gets us so off kilter?
SPEAKER_03Man, that's a great question. I I, you know, I wish I knew the exact reason because this is something that has plagued us as a civilization for years and years and years, decades and decades. Uh, like there's some quotes uh that I put at the beginning of the book that have been around for a long time, not just modern people like Brene Brown, but I quoted Blaise Pascal. Like these, these, this is something we've wrestled with for a long, long time. You know, growing up uh as a child, I remember watching Fred Rogers on the Mr. Rogers show, and he was promoting kindness and he was championing kindness, and he was that voice in our life of here's how you treat people. And I actually referenced him in the book. And so this is something that we have been trying to, and and I mean just a greater community of people have been trying to get the message across for a long time. But what I wrote about in the book is there's really a call and a challenge to Christians of, hey, we may have dropped the ball and we need to be leading the charge when it comes to kindness, because it is a fruit of the spirit, which means it's a mark of a Christ follower. So if we as Christ followers are not known for kindness, we've dropped the ball. So in the book, and this was in the original um proposal four years ago, I wrote about Keanu Reeves, who is an atheist, has no faith background whatsoever, but he's known for kindness and for acts of kindness and for how he treats his fans. And there's a lot of people that think Keanu Reeves is the kindest man alive because of how he treats um his fans, how he uses his fame, how he helps people. And he's absolutely an atheist, no faith background whatsoever. And so, my my point that I mentioned in the book is one, anybody can be kind, Christian or no Christian, but especially the Christian, we should be marked by this, we should be known by this. And uh what I've talked about um as I've been doing a lot of interviews like this is that uh the goal is to spend time with Christ daily, to have a relationship with Christ, to have a devotional life, and to do what the Bible calls John 15, abiding in Christ. And the more we abide with Christ, the more we spend time with Christ, the more we become like Christ, so that um as Rick Warren says, when the toothpaste is squeezed, whatever is in you is what comes out. I mentioned that in the book. So um when the tough times come, when the surprises, when the guy cuts you off in traffic, like you said, when you have a bad experience in the TSA line, which I'm very familiar with, when something comes out of nowhere, what is in you is what comes out. And the more you spend time with Christ, the more you abide in Christ, the more you will become like him, so that when you get squeezed, the fruit of the spirit naturally comes out. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithful, all that is what naturally comes out because you have been made more like Christ. And so it's just kind of a call to um um to get back to the basics of Christianity. I had a pastor who wrote an endorsement of this is what the early church was known for, this is how we changed the world in the first century, and uh it's getting back to what we were and should be known for.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's great. And I love just that sense of it is the fruit of the Holy Spirit, right? It's not the fruit of Greg or the fruit of Carrie. If I'm trying to produce that just in and of myself, there's gonna be an emptiness that comes from that. But when when we are spending time with Christ, like you said, when when we're becoming more Christ-like because we've been with him, it gets produced naturally. I don't have a striving towards it, but I have a being a countenance about me. So that's awesome. So thankful that you have taken the time really with the Lord to really craft this book, The Secret Power of Kindness, and really help us uh as Christians recapture this fruit, right? That that is indicative of who we are, of who our savior is. So love that. We would encourage you guys go get a copy of Greg's book, The Secret Power of Kindness. As he said, it is out everywhere now. Greg, uh, as we close up here, if people want to follow you, get in contact with you, uh, just know more about the Greg Atkinson contribution to the kingdom, how can they go about doing that?
SPEAKER_03Oh, I love the way you said that. I've never heard that before. That uh the Greg Atkinson contribution to the kingdom, that's awesome. Uh, two, two, two simple websites that you can remember. One, the quickest way to find the book is secretpowerkindness.com, just the title. However, if you were to forget, forget that, if you just remember my name, Greg Atkinson, gregatkinson.com is my email. I mean, Greg at gregatkinson.com is my email, but greg atkinson.com has everything. So if you go to my name, gregatkinson.com, and it's at with a t as in Tom, gregatkinson.com, you will find links to all my social media so you can connect with me online. You will also find uh links to the book and to my email and to the secret power of kindness. And so there's resources there, there's social media links, and you can find out more about what I'm doing these days. I am working, and I know this would apply to your audience. I'm working with organizations on team culture and creating more of a kind culture as opposed to a toxic culture, which I've unfortunately experienced in the past. And so uh this was an idea given to me five years ago by um, or maybe four years ago, by Eagle Brook Church in Minneapolis. I met with one of their executive team members, and he said, Greg, you go in and do these secret shoppers on the weekend. Why don't you stay over during the week and work with their staff on helping them to be a more hospitable and kind staff? And so that's what I'm doing now organizationally as working with team culture. But you can find out all about me, the secret shopper thing, everything on Greg Atkinson.com.
SPEAKER_02Awesome, awesome. Well, Greg, thank you for being here and being a part of the Vanderblumen leadership community. And for all of you guys listening, thank you for taking the time. We are praying for you guys. We believe uh that as leaders of the kingdom out there, you guys are making a big impact. And we want to just encourage you, fan that flame, go share Jesus with some people, uh, and and let's see the kingdom get bigger together. Amen. Amen. All right, thanks, Greg. Uh thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_01Uh thanks for listening to the Vanderblumen Leadership Podcast. At Vanderblumen, we help Christian organizations build their best teams through hiring, succession, compensation, and diversity consulting services. Visit our website, Vanderblumen.com, to learn more. And subscribe to our Vanderblumen Leadership Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts to keep up with our newest episodes. Thanks for listening.