Welcome to the Vanderblemen Leadership Podcast. I'm your host, Kristen Ide, Manager of Marketing and Business Development here at Vanderblumen. In today's podcast, William Vanderblumen talks with Tim Roth. Tim is a preacher, author, and host of the Basement Podcast. In this talk, William and Tim talk about this obsession that Tim went through and his journey for being the lead pastor at Embassy City, and now off to his next caller. During his journey, Tim talks about the importance of listening to the Holy Spirit and divine echoes before making a huge transition decision. We hope you enjoy this conversation.
SPEAKER_04And we're going to dive into a really sticky topic. And it's Monday when we're recording this. It's even more sticky. You ever have Monday morning where you wake up as a pastor and say, Is it time for me to step down? And Monday, if you've been around me any amount of time, Monday, we get more calls from people thinking it's time than all six other days combined. Wow. So I used to have Tim. I used to have a auto voicemail back when it was just me running the thing way back in the day. And I said it on Mondays and it'd say, you know what? Just call me back on Tuesday. Everything's gonna be good. That's right.
SPEAKER_02It's true. It's very true. You need another day to sleep.
SPEAKER_04Don't quit on Monday.
SPEAKER_02That's right. Don't quit on Mondays.
SPEAKER_04There's a way to learn what God's doing. So you do know when it's time and you don't hang on too long. And I want to dive into that a little bit before we do that. I get to meet so many great people. And I don't know that everybody knows you, Tim. You've got a ton of people that know you that I don't know. But why don't you just take a minute and give us a little bit of background, let us know, you know, a little bit of your story.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. So my name is Tim Ross. I'm originally from Southern California, Inglewood, uh, to be exact. Uh born and raised there, uh, gave my life to Jesus in 96, moved to Texas in 97. And after spending time as a youth evangelist, young adult pastor, associate campus pastor, executive pastor, uh, we were sent to plant a church in 2015. It's a church that I planted for seven years. And uh December 31st of 2002 uh was my last day as a lead pastor. Now I spend my time as a podcaster and an influencer. And who would have ever thought that?
SPEAKER_04So 2022, right? 2022, yes, sir. Yeah, yeah. So it's still pretty fresh. Um and we had the pleasure of uh of getting to help your church, embassy city, several times on the road of what that succession would look like, who it would be. I I wish I could say that every time we we manage a succession and a search, it goes as smoothly as yours did. Um, we we were actually kind of funny, able to uh find a successor that is also named Tim. So absolutely, it's like uh first Timothy and Second Timothy, you know. That's right, which is uh what happened when Tim Stevens left here to go be exec pastor at Willow. He raised up a guy from within, also known as uh Second Timothy, and now he's yeah, yeah. That's awesome, yeah. That's cool. God loves Tim's, God loves Tim's, that's right. Well, I I wonder, like, you know, when I get a call call and uh your exec pastor called me at the time and said, Hey, we're thinking this is what we're gonna do, but we're not sure. I just remember saying, What's really going on? Why would somebody step down in the middle of an amazing season, yeah, prime of life, prime of ministry, and I get paid in some part to be a little skeptical and say, ah, no, what's underneath all this? You know, yeah, you know, and and I I guess uh I guess I was wrong to be skeptical here because your church is doing great, you're doing great, and it's early, it's early. Things seem to be going well. So, how do you in the middle of the prime of your life walk us through what God did in your heart to make you go, yeah, no, I I think it's time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so um I I I went to school to be um a homicide detective. I studied uh administration of justice. So I so everything in my mind is very picturesque and uh it's sequential. So you ask me a question like that, I I can give it to you in the sequence that it happened. So um back in September of 2021, during our sixth anniversary, this would have been the sixth anniversary of the church that month, the end of the month, we had a uh a friend of mine uh come speak. And at the end of the message, uh she asked us to come up on the platform, Juliet and I, at the end of the service in front of everybody. And uh she just gave an encouraging word over myself, Juliet, and the entire church. And it's one of them words that you know, you hear it and you're like, yeah, I I think I think we're on the right track. God is doing something. This is confirmation. And we at the time we were looking for a building. There was a fries that had just gone out of business. There was a um a place less than half a mile down the street from us that went out of business. And so we were looking for new property. So we thought the word of encouragement that we received had something to do with that growth. Four days later, I'm in a hotel room at 5 a.m. in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And uh I felt like the Holy Spirit said, Hey, you need to go listen to that word again. And when I went to go listen to the word again, I I promise you, I thought it was overdubbed. Like I thought somebody tinkered with the vocals. Because I'm like, I did not hear, I didn't hear this four days ago. Well, in hindsight, William, what I know now is that the word that we received in public was a decoded, was an encoded message. And he decoded it, decoded the message privately. Because it would have been, I think, I think our guests would have got stoned if uh they all heard the same thing that I heard uh at 5 a.m. four days later. But what I essentially heard uh in a nutshell four days later was your season as a lead pastor is coming to an end. Wow. And I burst into tears because I'm like, did I do something wrong? Did I strike the rock twice? You know, I'm going through all of my biblical references and I'm going, right, right, right, what have I done? And uh that's what set us on a journey uh over the next uh year and a half, really. Well, actually over the next year, um, of clarity with God just letting us know, hey, your your assignment as a lead pastor is is coming to an end, and I have something, I have something else for you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And how so, like you know, when people say, So I I grew up Presbyterian, right? So and some people seen this before, but this is this is the Presbyterians worshiping, right? And we get you know, if we get a charismatic moment, this is us, right? That's it. Right. So like yeah, yeah, yeah. So so you know, in Presbyterian church, you kind of say, Well, the Lord spoke to me and told me this, this, and this. I'm gonna say, You sure it wasn't the enchiladas last night? Absolutely, yeah. So, how how do you discern when it's God speaking and when it's just a bad mood? Or absolutely what what are some some things you do to test a word to make sure that it's something God's saying to you rather than your emotions?
SPEAKER_02So, so um the the way that I've always uh classified um a confirming word from God is that uh the other trusted people that are in my life hear the same thing. So, so I refer to them, William, as divine echoes, right? The difference between enchiladas and echoes is that if it's enchiladas, only you hear it. If it's echoes, everybody else you love hears it, even if they don't want to. Right? So, like for my elders to hear it, for my wife to hear it, for my executive pastor to hear it, for my executive creative director to hear it, for my worship pastor to hear it, for my admin to hear it. Now, they didn't all hear it at the same time, it takes patience. You know, you submit what you feel like you've heard, and you gotta you gotta trust God's timing in allowing them to hear the same thing. And so uh when you're waiting for those echoes, uh, it can take some time. I know it was about it was about three months for my wife to come around to even feel like, yeah, this is this is what we feel like the Lord is saying. When I first told her, her exact words were, you might as well be telling me to put one of my kids up for adoption. Yeah, yeah, she was like, uh-uh, this cannot be what God's telling us to do. And three months later, she was like, Yeah, our season is coming to an end. What changed? Um you know what? I that's one of those works that I I I can only uh attribute to God and um him moving on the heart and us having continued conversations, we didn't brood in frustration and in silence, you know, you know, throwing uh prayer jabs at one another. God, let her see it. God, I hope he wakes up. You know, we kept talking. As uncomfortable as those conversations were, we kept on talking. And um uh the more we talked and the more we went through the nuances and the more we uh shed tears, and the and the more we were were very, very honest with each other, we were in agreement that man, we have no idea what's next, but we know uh that this season is coming to an end. And that was around that was January of 22 that we were in agreement that you know what this is this is the beginning of the end. She thought it was three more years. She wanted to round off at a nice 10. And um I actually thought it was gonna be this year, 2023. I thought it would be September of this year, and obviously uh God's timing isn't ours, and uh he didn't uh fulfill her expectations or mine uh in terms of when we thought it would be. It was actually December 31st or 22.
SPEAKER_04What what uh Tim, as you watched for echoes, you or listened for echoes, I guess what you'd say. Yeah, where do you hear them in the? I'm sure you're looking at this this church that God birthed but used you. So it's like one of your kids, as your wife said. It is like how are you examining your church to say, where do I see evidence of echoes like in the church itself and how they might be better served for a new voice?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so yeah, it makes perfect sense. So, you know, everybody's scenario and story is going to be different, but for me, um, one of the things that uh uh the Lord made very, very clear to me uh in 2022 was hey, check your schedule. And uh at the halfway mark of the year, uh, which would have been uh actually uh it would have been um it really would have been June for us because uh I was the guest speaker for the whole month for Gateway and just showed the video back to our church. So for the first six months of the year, I had only been in the pulpit in person for three months. And I felt like what the Lord was was sharing with me during that time was hey, I've been weaning them from your voice and you didn't even know it. Like they're more prepared for this transition than you think. You think they need a year, a year and a half, two years to prepare for this transition. I've been weaning them from your voice and your presence this year, and you didn't even know it. They're gonna be okay without you, which is almost like, really? Like, you know what I mean? You're you gotta check your ego at that point. You're like, right, will they be okay without me? He's like, Yeah, they will be okay without you.
SPEAKER_04And yeah, but I I am going through the same thing here. I try every year, I go away a little longer during the summer. And I I've gone from driving like this as a planter of our business to driving like this, to in the summer, kind of driving like this. And every now and then just let's do the no hands for a little bit. Yeah, yeah. And and I I tell people I'm trying to make myself uh not essential, and that's become way too easy a task. Yeah, buddy. I kind of wish they were a little more essential, but uh they can take it from here.
SPEAKER_02That's that's a real state from here.
SPEAKER_04In fact, you know, probably I don't know how it was at embassy city, but probably baptisms were up and the giving was good, and all of it, all of it, it really was, yeah.
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SPEAKER_04Yeah, well then so how do you have the conversation with your board or with your your people? Like walk me through that so that someone who's sitting here today, and and by the way, pardon the interruption, but if you're listening carefully, you heard Tim say his last day was December 31st of 2022. And you heard him say he was talking to his wife about this in January of 2022. So what I don't hear you saying, Tim, is I don't think the Lord calls us to impulsive career moves. Absolutely not. Now, there are times where he says, you know, pick up your mat, go home, or your nets and follow me. There are moments where that happens, but I don't think when you're serving his church, he's gonna call you to an impulsive decision. You wouldn't fair okay.
SPEAKER_02I that is absolutely fair, okay. Because that wouldn't be fair to the people. That's right, and that wouldn't be stewardship to the people. So I absolutely agree with you.
SPEAKER_04Well, so now you're getting this word, you've got echoes going off all around you. You can see it in the church, you can see it from your your wife starting to talk to you. Walk me through the conversation that you had with your board the first time. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So this would have been around. Um, I started talking to them early on. So I started sharing this with the board um in October of 21. You know, hey, I don't know what it means yet. I'm just submitting it to you. We still need to pray. Juliet and I are not in agreement yet, so this is not going to be a move that I make tomorrow. Uh, but we need to start praying through this. So the earliest conversations were, you know, the week that I found out. Uh, but after January, those conversations uh started to become way more significant because it was like, okay, if this is really the Lord, who's your successor? Right. And um, what does the timeline even look like? And you know, when you start off with these with these conversations, you can only communicate what you know. Yep. You don't you don't fill in the blanks. Communicate what you know, pray about the rest. That's what I say all the time. Communicate what you know, pray about the rest, revisit the revisit the conversations month to month, even if you have to have offline conversations before your formal board meetings, make sure you have those conversations, but keep reiterating that, hey, I just know what I know, and we're not gonna make a move until we're all in agreement. That's where God puts the oil, right? He puts it on unity, according to Psalms, right? So um, so I'm always thinking about over-communicating. Yes, here is where I am. I'm gonna say it again. I don't want there to be any skepticism, I don't want there to be any, you know, squinting of the eyes. I want everybody to be on the same page. And so January, February, March, we started having those conversations. And then um, you know, there's a young man that I had been mentoring for three and a half years named Tim. And uh I felt like I he's a great preacher, but I had never he was just my mentee. He had never come to preach at Embassy City before. And I felt like the Holy Spirit said, bring him and have him preach. And so I brought him in and uh I felt like God said, Hey, pay attention to him. I'm like, okay. So he preaches his message. I hear it, I hear it later on in the week. He's sound the out theologically, right? A preacher is a preacher, is a preacher. He's a good preacher. What I picked up on listening to him was how much our congregation laughed. I use so much humor in my messages, uh, because I used to do I used to be a stand-up comic. So I use a lot of humor in messages. I actually use the humor to open people's hearts up so that the truth goes down either easier. Right spoonful of sugar. So um uh I heard the congregation laughing during his message, and I never heard the congregation laugh like that unless it was me. And that's what piqued my my my interest.
SPEAKER_04Interesting.
SPEAKER_02And so I kind of I kept that to myself. I didn't bring that to the elders, I didn't bring that to my wife. And within two and a half weeks, uh Juliet, unsolicited, unprovoked, just walks up to me and says, Hey babe, um I don't know what God wants to do. Um but if God chose Tim to be our successor, he and his wife Janice, I would be more than pleased. And I was shocked.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_02Because my wife was still grieving, right? We were both grieving um what what was coming, even though we didn't know we didn't even have dates and all this kind of stuff yet. And man, I tell you, when she said that, I went, Well, it's interesting you say that because I felt like God put him in my heart when he when we had him to come to preach, and she goes, Well, that's him.
SPEAKER_04Well, what I love about this story, and I I know the other side of it, um, is you didn't do that impulsively either. Uh and I'll fast forward the story a little bit, but you listened for echoes. Um you you treated the bride like a bride. Yes, sir. And uh, you know, you what do they say, measure twice, cut once? That's right. That's right. So you guys, and this sounds like a commercial, but a lot of people feel like a failure if they don't raise up their own successor. Well, that's just not how the church has worked. Is Jesus is not you? You're multi-site, it's not one church, many locations, it's one kingdom, many locations.
SPEAKER_02Correct, that's correct, yes.
SPEAKER_04And so there are laborers that you don't know about that you are related to. That's correct, that's correct. And uh, you guys came to us and said, Let's look everywhere, let's let's turn over every rock, make sure this is right. And it appeared to us to be an echo, and uh, you know, time will tell. I guess we'll do a podcast in 10 years to see how it all went, but uh that's right. I love the I love the balance of listening for the Holy Spirit's voice and then testing that witness against uh others, against so it's just far too often I get people call me and and they're impulsive, yeah. And then sometimes I get people that won't call me because they feel embarrassed. I I'm letting Jesus down if I leave. Oh man, and yeah, I did a little bit of that when I was a pastor. Man, if I what's gonna happen if I well, guess what? I'm not very essential around here. It's so true. Well, I you know, I could go on for hours and hours with you about this, and maybe we'll have you back later on to talk, and maybe the three of us can talk. Second Timothy. Yeah, that would be amazing because he's brilliant. That would be really cool, but but Today I wanted to just park for a minute. Yep. And say, you know, if you're feeling like it's time to go, start to listen for echoes. That's right. You know, the one thing is so interesting to me, Tim, the things God brings to my mind when I do this job versus when I was a pastor. And one thing that uh that I just can't shake is is I never realized why Jesus got in trouble with his friends. Not Pharisees and Sadducees, but like why did he get in trouble with his friends? And and best I can tell, the most common reason he got in trouble was he was always moving on. Wow. He went from town to town and village to village. No, why can't we stay? Nope, we gotta go. Nope, we gotta go. Yeah, and and I it somehow I I missed that when I was a pastor. I thought, no, I gotta stay.
SPEAKER_02Right. Maybe, maybe, but maybe not. Yeah, that's right. That's right.
SPEAKER_04I just encourage uh you all to follow Tim Ross. We're gonna put all your social media stuff in the show notes and sort of thing. You'll you'll get to laugh, um, and you'll and you'll be uh surprised how much God uses Tim to speak into your life. And I hope that today has been a moment where you might stop and check and say, is there an encoded message that needs some decoding? And uh, I'm gonna pray that you know exactly the right time to leave. I've seen a lot of people start well. I I've seen some people finish well, I've seen very few do both. And uh it's such a joy to see how you've done that well, Tim. I can see it in Embassy City, I can see it in your current life and work. And I thank you for making time to be with us today.
SPEAKER_02Very honored to be with you, William. Thank you.
SPEAKER_04Thanks, Tim. And you all tune in next week. We'll be talking to another great leader and trying to learn from them as we figure out how to help the church growth and faster.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for listening to the Vanderblumen Leadership Podcast. At Vanderblumen, we help Christian organizations build their best teams through hiring, succession, compensation, and diversity consulting services. Visit our website, Vanderblumen.com, to learn more, and subscribe to our Vanderblumen Leadership Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts to keep up with our newest episodes. Thanks for listening.