Dr. Riken's two tangible tips for bringing on new team members to the staff and the benefits of having diverse staff. We hope you enjoy this conversation.
SPEAKER_01Well, hello, everybody. Thanks for joining us today. I'm thrilled to have with me Phil Riken. Phil is the president at Wheaton College. And uh, Phil, thank you so much for being with us today.
SPEAKER_03For sure. Uh God bless you, William. And I do think uh Wheaton is blessed to have a global influence. And that was the vision of the very simple men and women that just knelt down in the grass to pray that God would help them start a college. And they didn't have any money, they didn't have any students, they didn't have any faculty, but they did have a lot of vision, and they they really had a lot of trust in a God who answers prayer. So we're we're grateful for that for sure. This is my 13th year at Wheaton College, although I grew up here. So I I've spent more than half a lifetime here. But most recently I served as senior minister of 10th Presbyterian Church in downtown Philadelphia. And uh my wife Lisa and I and our five children uh were in Philadelphia for 15 years before coming to Wheaton.
SPEAKER_01And folks, um I you really shouldn't brag on biblical qualities, but I think Phil and I are both showing the ability to love our enemies at this point because tonight, uh, as we're recording, the Houston Astros and the Philadelphia Phillies will square off in a pretty important game.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'll try not to say anything kind about the Houston organization. I'm actually a St. Louis Cardinal fan, diehard, but we absolutely do, as a family, root for the Phillies. And we're a little disappointed not to see the fanatic in some kind of Halloween outfit last night.
SPEAKER_01So it's Love Your Enemy Day on uh on the podcast, then. So uh yeah, here's to a good game. Well, Phil, I let's let's jump in. Um you have done a marvelous job of building your presidential cabinet, or if you're a uh headmaster of school, your direct reports, your circle of leadership team. And I uh I just wonder if you could tell us um what are some of the the building blocks for looking for the people that are going to report directly to you. And and then after you run through the building blocks, I'd love to hear what, if anything, has changed since the world fell apart and is getting rebuilt with the pandemic.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so those are great questions, William. And I'll say, um, you know, I've been in a primary leadership role for 25 years plus now. And I have been so greatly blessed to work with outstanding people every one of those years, uh, both at 10th Presbyterian Church and here at Wheaton College. And one of the things I really like about these roles, uh, first of all, I love being on a team. Uh I love the just the atmosphere, the mutual support, uh, that sense of um working together for a common cause. And one of the things I really love about it is working with gifted people who have expertise and maybe even uh maybe even some character traits, certainly uh relational abilities that you don't have, but that your team needs. And um, I've just learned so much from my colleagues um over the years. In terms of the whole hiring process, um, you know, I took a view when I came to Wheaton College. One of the first things I communicated to the leadership team is I am absolutely not expecting anyone on this leadership team to resign. Uh, I'm hoping that you feel good about the ongoing mission of Wheaton College and believe that we could try to work together to fulfill that mission. Um, not that there's never a place for for making transitions and having, as it were, your people, but I also think um I think good leaders can work with a wide variety of people and and really try to get the best out of them. So I was glad to inherit a really good team. And then as time has gone on, for all kinds of different reasons, I have had to hire and also made a decision to expand our team. So I'll just comment um, first of all, I I absolutely am looking for somebody who understands and wholeheartedly supports the mission of Wheaton College. It's Christ-centered, liberal arts higher education mission and really understands that in a deep way. It doesn't have to be somebody that was educated at Wheaton. It doesn't have to be somebody that had a connection with Wheaton at all, but they do have to have a sense of that um shared mission. Um, I'm not a big person for a lot of ego, I have to say. So people that um are more concerned about the mission than about their own reputation or careers, that's that's very highly valued for me. And I think we just get a lot more done when we're less concerned about who gets the credit. Don't feel like we have to have turf wars with other people on our leadership team. But bring a lot of Christ honoring humility to our work, not taking ourselves too seriously, but taking the work um seriously. I really like what um Paul says uh early on in Romans chapter 12. I think people are very familiar with the opening two verses of that chapter, but he goes on to talk about how, according to the grace that is given to each one of us, we should look at ourselves with sober judgment, is the word that he used, not thinking too highly of ourselves, which is really easy to do, but it's part of God's gracious work in us to understand what our gifts are, how they fit in, not to be self-deprecating about them, but actually just to use them and not to be self-aggrandizing. So that whole constellation of character traits is really important for me. I will also say um, a real capacity for hard work. Um, I I really like working with people that are high energy and therefore productive and really give themselves to the work in that sense. So that's something I'm I'm looking for. I definitely value highly an ability to uh consider somebody else's point of view, a different argument or perspective, and not to dismiss it, but actually enter into it and receive it so that we can have a give and take that leads to good outcomes. Um, I like to work towards consensus whenever possible, but that takes certain relational dispositions uh within a leadership team. Um, I'll just say one more thing. I know I know I've said a lot in this answer. And I mean, you've if you're asking me what I'm looking for in a team, that's just a really rich topic. In terms of things that have um things that have changed because of COVID, I'll I'll mention two. One is placing a higher value on the need for innovation. When I came to Wheaton College, um, I said to the trustees, look, if you're looking for somebody who's highly innovative and kind of a visionary, that's really not something I can do just individually out of my gifts. What I think I can do is collaborate with the team and lead a team that captures a vision and is innovative. But you have to have people on your team that have that innovative spark. And um it's not something historically we've been particularly good at at Wheaton College, but it's become more important. And we've demonstrated that, I think, during this uh during this COVID season. I also have to say, um, and we, you know, we could get into the world of remote work and all of that. Um, I value people who place a value on deeply human connections. And we can use digital media like the conversation we're having to build on a relationship. It's hard to do that, to use that as the place of really establishing that relationship. So people need to enter into uh the residential community that that Wheaton College has, even though we make somewhat greater allowances for remote work than we have before. That's probably a longer answer than you wanted, but those are things that are top to top of mind for me, William.
SPEAKER_01No, no, and I'm hearing that more and more the the the digital is an enhancement. Uh it's better than a phone call. But I think uh, well, I've I've said for a long time if if digital were all it's cracked up to be, wouldn't Jesus have just zoomed it in, right?
SPEAKER_03Uh it's something well, no, I actually think there uh I you know, one thing I'll say is that theologians sometimes people are making an argument for doing a certain thing online that I think we could do better life on life. And I'll just say that's too Gnostic for us. That that that was the you know heresy that denied the importance of physical humanity. And the reason Gnosticism is wrong is because the incarnation is right, it that's how God has uh has chosen uh to give himself to us in the incarnate Christ, and that has analogies, I think, for how we live our embodied lives.
SPEAKER_01That's right. That's right. What what how do you test for uh uh innovation when you're interviewing somebody and you need this new sense of innovative? I mean, you there's innovative and then there's just wild ideas, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'll just say, you know, maybe a word of encouragement to school leaders that are out there, maybe some other folks in higher education, hiring is really tough. Um, that's why you know we Wheaton has been grateful to partner with Vanderbloom, and I don't mind saying for a really important hire. Um, I remember a time I was early on in my pastoral career, I was like, I feel like I need to do a better job with hiring. Like, I've got an important hiring hire coming up. This is like an area I need to learn more about. So I contacted a businessman in our church who I knew was very successful. I knew he was successful because when I went to visit him, he was in a corner office way up in a building in Philadelphia. If you've got a corner office, you know what you're doing. And I said, Hey, tell me about hiring. Like, what do you know about hiring? I want to learn everything you know about hiring. He said, I don't know anything about hiring. The only thing I know about hiring is that I usually know within a half hour of when somebody has started, whether it was a good decision or a mistake. And by then it's too late. So um that's that's uh just a word on how difficult it is to um to make a good hire. A couple things that we found helpful in a hiring process. Um one is having a pretty diverse team doing the hire. We have tended at Wheaton to use larger teams. I mean, it's not uncommon for us to have 10 people on a hiring team. It's less efficient, it takes longer. Uh, but I also think you get to know a candidate better. And I always feel like every person has contributed to a deeper understanding of these candidates, what their strengths are and what their weaknesses are. Um, on innovation specifically, I think um I think past record is the best thing to go on for innovation. I think that's true for a lot of things, but um you don't suddenly become innovative. You've been demonstrating that um with the with the changes that you've brought to the organizations that you serve. And I think the true innovators, it's pretty obvious that they are truly innovative. And if you're trying to figure out, ah, is this person innovative or not? It's kind of like the Chicago Bears right now, trying to figure out if Justin Fields is a great quarterback or not. Like if you're asking that question, like he's not a great quarterback, like he's got to really show it on the field, which I think he kind of did this last week. But anyway, um, for innovation specifically, even more so than other areas, I would value uh past experience and track record.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, my my experience is uh nearly everyone gets less innovative with age. And uh it's kind of like flexibility. Your body just gets less flexible as you get older. That's a biological fact. And I think uh if you don't see innovation in the past over their body of work, you you're not gonna see it in the future.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so great, great, great comment. And I think um, you know, we need to be looking for our positions um just across a wide spectrum of ages. But I do think that oftentimes there is, can be, you're looking for somebody more experienced because you don't want to make a risky hire. And I really think in hiring, uh, that can be a great opportunity for organizations to get somebody with outstanding potential that's going to make maybe even after your organization an even bigger contribution down the road. Uh, and don't be afraid to notice the talent that somebody has and to recognize the importance of that and the opportunity of shaping that. And that's probably more true for innovation than anything else. Um, I think over time, the other thing that happens, and I've been thinking about this a bit, I love the team I work with right now. Um, am I gonna love it the same way five years and 10 years from now? No. Uh, we're gonna need to bring in some new talent in some way, um, or at least get that innovative Spark emerging leaders actively present within the life of our institution, even if it's not on the top leadership team. So um, you know, hire hire that young talent is is what I'm encouraging.
SPEAKER_00Hiring is getting harder, and you need the right people to accomplish your mission. Learn how we can help you find the right people for your team today. Contact us to get started. We would love to help.
SPEAKER_01Talk to me about span of care. How many people are in that cabinet? How many are directly reporting to you?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so great question. Um, I have a bias towards fewer rather than more direct reports, um, partly just for my own bandwidth and own time and what can I what I can invest in those relationships. Um, and I inherited a cabinet of only six, including me. So that cabinet had five direct reports. I have other direct reports, which I'll mention in a moment. We expanded to a cabinet of eight. And we did that for a constellation of um mission critical reasons. One is we had some areas where we felt we needed to improve and we needed top leadership at the cabinet level to do that. One of those areas was admissions and enrollment. The other uh area was intercultural engagement, um, everything it means to deal with people from diverse backgrounds, both in a North American and in a global context. Um, we needed somebody with real expertise in that area within the cabinet. Also, growing the cabinet gave us an opportunity to have a more diverse team with people from more ethnic backgrounds, um, having more women on the cabinet. Um, those things have all been super valuable for us. Um, and I I don't really care how well you think you understand other people's life context, you do not understand it the way they understand it from the inside. Um, and just the connections you can make across your community with a more diverse team. So those are some of the reasons we expanded. Of those seven cabinet members, six, well, really all seven are direct reports. One of them has a dual reporting relationship. But those are my seven primary reporting relationships. I also, the Wheaton College chaplain does not serve on our cabinet for a variety of reasons, but is a direct report. And then uh the head of my own office staff is also uh a direct report. So I have nine, which is about as many as I would want to have.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's about eight more than I have right now. Uh and I've got I've gone back and forth with different models as our company has grown and changed. I don't know if there's a perfect number, it's probably perfect for the organization in the season that you're in, but uh and for the leader, frankly.
SPEAKER_03So um I like to have pretty direct information about all the different aspects of what's happening at Wheaton College. I don't want to be too, I don't want it to be too mediated. I want it to be more immediate. And if that's what you want, you probably need more direct reports.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, that's good. So if you had to whittle your cabinet down to three positions, if you could only have three direct reports in your context, I know it's different than everywhere else, but in your context, what are the three most mission critical roles at this moment in your work?
SPEAKER_03I actually think that that cannot be done. And here's why. Um, our finance and operations, with its care of our campus landscape and facilities and finance, like I couldn't just say, uh no, we we don't need that. Uh academics is our mission, so we need our chief academic officer involved. Uh, we've got, you know, steady flow of gifted students from all over the world for our graduate and undergraduate programs. Our advancement team, we're dependent on not just tuition, but also generous giving to Wheaton College. I think the just all of those roles, I think we've got the roles that are really critical. Now, if we were a smaller campus, possibly some of those roles could be combined or something. But we're a large organization with a $100 million budget with 750 employees. Like this is a big operation. Um and I don't uh I don't see too much. I certainly couldn't whittle it down to three. So I don't like, I don't like the question, William. Well, I do I like the question in this regard. It's worth um thinking about and not just assuming you've got the structure you need, but actually stepping back to assess that and also trying to do things as efficiently as possible. It's a good question from that standpoint.
SPEAKER_01Excellent. Excellent. Hey, I want to uh we've hit the core of what I want to touch on, but let's jump to a couple different things. One that we were talking about before we started the interview, we were talking about your your chaplain, and uh you said he has a very rare gift on a college campus. Tell tell our listeners kind of what you were saying.
SPEAKER_03Well, Angelus Wilson has a lot of gifts, just a tremendous heart for ministry and commitment to prayer. And um, he just he sends a little video at the beginning of each week to the entire community, just setting a spiritual tone, just one verse of scripture and a few comments and a and a beautiful prayer. I mean, he has a lot of gifts, but um, not every preacher can go short as well as long. And I'm often asked on our campus to give a few remarks, a few remarks that people don't want more than that. They don't want a lot of remarks, they just want a few remarks. And uh the ability to minister to people in in deep and meaningful ways with brevity as well as a greater length is a real gift. And that's a um not it's uh it's not a gift you can necessarily expect. It's a I think it's a bit rarer.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, a preaching professor at Princeton said the sign of a good sermon is a full trash can.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, there you go. Well, it's one sign, yeah. No, that's true. And I mean, I I had an experience last week. Um, I had I'm doing a series in chapel at Wheaton on doubt and just all different dimensions of doubt in the Christian life. And I did a recent talk on Naomi and some of the doubts that she went through. And two weeks later, we had our parents on campus for Family Weekend. We had this beautiful prayer breakfast, 250 parents gathered to pray for Wheaton College. And I said, Um, I'm gonna, I'm talking from the same passage. I'm gonna tell you all the things I didn't have time to tell our students because I only had 20 minutes, and I've got all these other things I want to say. Um, so you gotta you gotta whittle it down and reduce it just to its bare essence if you can in a lot of contexts.
SPEAKER_01That's great. I also would love to hear, I've been asking college presidents this question because I I I haven't been one. I've been a pastor, but I'm learning the academic world. Uh, you've been both, you know, in the pastoral world, there's the the multiple hats a pastor wears. There's the you got to be part of the community, you've got to be part of the cause, and you've got to run the corporation. That's at least three. Or if you want to be reformed, since we both are, uh, you could you could make it congruent to the threefold office of Christ. You have to be a prophet, you have to be a priest, you have to function somewhat like the leader of the organization or king. In the in the college presidency world, what would you say? Uh it feels like you, I mean, you're forever fundraising if you're president. I don't know how you don't. Uh you're responsible for these students and their formation, so you've got to be part of that. And then you've got this 750 employee team to run. Uh, are those the three big stressors? Are those the three big hats you find yourself wearing, or are there more?
SPEAKER_03Well, first of all, so love, love referencing Prophet Priest, and King. I've actually done some writing on that specific for college presidencies, prophetic Priestly Kingley leadership. I think that's needed in any leadership context. Um, one of the things that's challenging about a college presidency is the different constituencies you have, which is a little different than the hats question, which I'll come back to. What students want, what their parents want, what your alumni want, what your staff want, and what your faculty want, those can be very different things. Even if you have a really strong sense of mission, as we definitely do at Wheaton College, those interests are not always um fully aligned. And I think that is a built-in tension, possibly recipe for conflict that goes beyond the structure of most congregations. Congregations too have different factions or different groups, and you need to minister differently, perhaps to you know, children in the congregation and then to older adults and things like that. But it's not they don't they don't feel the same way in terms of their interests in your mission in the in the same way in a local church context. So you do feel yourself, you know, pulled in some of those, um, some of those different uh directions. I will also agree. With you, there's a complexity to the leadership um role as a result, and one of the I think it's tempting to tell one group what they want to hear in a way that if another group overheard you, they'd be like, Well, wait a second, that's very that sounds a lot different from what you said to us. Like it has to have integrity within within itself and cast a complete picture of what God is doing at Wheaton College. So I that that's one of the um tensions that I I think you feel um in the role. I think you've um mentioned some of the the the key hats. And I think um you have to wear, you know, it's like um you always it's it's definitely a whack-a-mole kind of role where there's always more to do than you can do. And when you're doing one thing, you're worried that you're neglecting another thing. I find it very helpful to remind myself and often to remind others, we are primarily here for our students. We're concerned about staff welfare ultimately because of the impact that our staff has in the lives of our students. So having an orienting priority, um, I think uh gives some guidance for how those different constituencies need to relate to one another and um may help you understand which hat you have to pull out and wear more frequent most frequently.
SPEAKER_01That's super helpful. That's going to be golden. Whether you're a headmaster at a secondary school or in a cabinet or uh head of a head of a college or university, thank you so much. I I uh would encourage you to go to the Wheaton site where you can learn more about the school, particularly if you're a headmaster of a secondary school and you've got parents coming to you saying where should we send our kids? Um, but Phil, thank you for your time, for your partnership with us. And uh we we just wish you every good wish in a season that's probably one of the more unique ones to navigate in uh higher education.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we are living in what the Chinese call interesting times for sure. Uh God bless you, William, and God bless anybody listening to this and uh trying to do your very best in God honoring leadership for the for the school you're called to serve or whatever the institution is.
SPEAKER_01Thanks. And thanks to everybody for listening today. Look forward to visiting again soon.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for listening to the Vanderblemen Leadership Podcast. At Vanderblemen, we help Christian organizations build their best needs through hiring, succession, compensation, and diversity consulting services. Visit our website, Vanderblemen.com, to learn more and subscribe to our Vanderblemen Leadership Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts to keep up with our newest episodes. Thanks for listening.