Welcome to the Vanderblumen Leadership Podcast. I'm your host, Kristen Eidig, Senior Marketing Coordinator here at Vanderblumen. In today's podcast, William Vanderblumen talks with Shirley Hokstra, the CU president. She's a visionary leader, passionate about Christian higher education and the role it plays in the common good. In this conversation, President Hokstdra shares the value of a Christian education system in terms of soulcrafting for students. She also shares tangible tips for navigating a successful semester in a new role. We hope you enjoy the conversation.
SPEAKER_02And as we you probably know, it was we started helping churches find their pastor, but then that's grown into uh Christian schools and Christian nonprofits and even Christian businesses. So, really, frankly, anyone on Team Jesus that needs senior leadership, we're helping and we're we're trying to focus some on each of those sectors. So Shirley was gracious enough to join us today. And uh Shirley, thank you so much for for making the time.
SPEAKER_01It's such an honor to be with you today, William.
SPEAKER_02Well, I appreciate it. And uh I would love it if you'd give people a little bit of introduction and just tell us like how you ended up doing what you're doing and a little bit of what the CCCU does before we dive into some interesting topics.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that would be great. Uh so first of all, um the CCCU has over 191 members worldwide. And so while we have 140 in the US, we have another uh 10 in Canada. Uh our one of our fastest growing areas is Christian education, higher education across the world. So that's really exciting. And one of the things we hear firsthand is because we have a school in Lithuania which has Russian students and Ukrainian students and lots of other students from that part of the world, and they are doing transformative work in that international setting. We do three things, William, at the CCCU. The first thing we do is advocacy. So we really represent the beauty and essential nature of Christian education to the courts, to the legislature, to the executive branch, and of course to business and uh to our uh communication outlets uh all over. The next thing we do is professional development because while there's a lot of higher education uh good training and information and camaraderie, only we have the faith aspect, which is so important to our members. And then we love to tell the story of Christian education. Recently, we've been talking to the Washington Post or we talked to the Religion News Service, we talked to Christianity Today. We really just want to make news uh journalists their best, and we like to give them the best information. So that's what my organization does. And I've been in my post now starting my ninth year, and I really, I really love uh being in this job, being the chief storyteller and advocate for Christian education. Uh I came to it as an education major out of college, uh, taught a few years, got my law degree, was a partner in a law firm in New Haven, Connecticut, as a litigator, and then went to a Christian college and was 15 years there as a senior leader, then being called here, joining both my legal work and my higher ed work together for God's service.
SPEAKER_02That's great. That's great. Well, I I uh I would we have a whole lot of secondary schools that um have been kind enough to let us do work with them. We've got a lot of people that are probably listening today that are in secondary Christian schools, uh, which it appears to me is just growing like a weed. And uh particularly, I mean, it seems like you know, the pandemic, people couldn't agree on anything. We all had different opinions, but I think the one thing we all agreed on is, you know, kids need to be in school. And and the the secondary schools that were open, the faith-based ones, uh, if I'm just seeing surges in attendance. Are you seeing a similar trend in higher education, Christian higher education?
SPEAKER_01You know, people who want uh something that is not just a commodity for their uh son or daughter uh going to college, or maybe when they return to college, is not just about getting a job. But one of the things that Christian higher education does so well is that I think the phrase that was used recently by Pete Wayner was uh soul craft. And I think that in the vehicle for uh shaping the human soul, for pursuing the moral good to love the right things is done through the vehicle of rigorous academics and formative community. And so we are seeing people who say, look, my son or daughter, they're smart, they're gonna be able to get a job. But what I really want them to do is spend this time in a community with Christian faculty and staff who are going to shape their soul, taking what's been done in the home, maybe in their K through 12 Christian uh uh education, and then continuing it in a deeper way. So we are seeing a rise in enrollment. Uh, we are also seeing that as uh impacted by demographics, of course, in the United States, but we are very hopeful for the strength and longevity of Christian education for generations to come.
SPEAKER_02Well, I know there's some schools that are struggling, but uh, we just graduated last spring, our daughter from Baylor. And uh so we're keeping up a little bit with Dr. Livingstone's doing what appears to be an amazing job. Yes. Record applications, they're having to put freshmen into hotels because they don't have enough dorm rooms. I mean, it's pretty amazing to see the surge there, and uh gives me great hope for for the future of the Christian and the soul crafting that Christian higher education can bring.
SPEAKER_01Well, I have to say, if I I have two, I have two um children myself who graduated from Christian colleges and they met their spouses there. So we I now have four children, all Christian college graduates. And here's what I would say uh it's more, it is it is so essential for those years when your child is getting to have their independent thinking and their worldview shaped, to go to a place that that matches your family values, and that matches the fact that you would like your son or daughter to know Jesus more after four years and not be pulled away. So, anyway, um I I uh really think that the investment that families have made K through 12 would really be um solidified when they invest in a Christian college.
SPEAKER_02Totally agree, totally. So what so one of the things that we've been seeing, like uh I guess it was about December of 2020, we started to notice um, it was really October of 2020, we started getting all these calls from people ready to make a change, which was, you know, people hire us to help them find talent, but talent calls us saying, Oh, we might be, and and it was a surge. It was weird. It was you, it was frankly, it was what usually happens in January when everybody's gonna lose 10 pounds and balance their checkbook and go get the reach. But it was in October, like what so we we did some studying and and actually put some research behind it and found there there's a great resignation coming. And we actually called it before the world started calling it. And I'm seeing it in secondary schools quite a bit. Um, I don't know if it's happening in higher education. Higher education tends to be a little bit more stable environment, employment-wise, but it does seem like there's a some churn going on. It maybe it's the same as what you've seen in the past. But can you talk a little bit about that?
SPEAKER_01Well, first of all, it's been a really tough two years in the education sector as a whole, right? So if you've been in higher education, let's let's remember back to March of 2020, the world changed, and immediately the campuses went from by and large in-class kind of educational experiences to online. And so uh people had that adaptation stress that comes from that kind of major shift. And then we were all dealing with uh what was the level of disease on campus and how do we keep people safe? And so then you've started that second year with a lot of uncertainty and a lot of extra planning. So I think number one, people found that they could adapt. So it opened up possibilities for them. It was like, hey, I've been doing this for a while, but maybe there'd be something else I could do. I've been so adaptable, I've been successful at it. So I think it gave some people confidence. The second thing is I think that people said, hey, look, I'd like to get into a different sector that's maybe not quite so unpredictable. Uh and so they were looking maybe for more certainty. Uh, and then the third thing I would say is that uh with people being tired, uh, they may have said, this is a good time for me to step out, retire, let the next generation take the take the lead. So the pandemic was disruptive in so many ways, and I think in the personnel as well.
SPEAKER_02Well, it it pulls us out of our habits, right? Like taking us like taking a sabbatical. It's not good or bad, it just pulls us out of our habits, and we drop back and say, why am I in that habit? You know, it's the frog in the kettle sort of thing.
SPEAKER_01It allows you to stop and think and evaluate.
SPEAKER_02Well, as you uh think about Christian higher education, whether it's a high churn or normal churn, there are people that move all the time. Yes. And and when you've watched a whole lot of uh Christian presidential appointments happen, I mean that what's the average, like about 15 a year is gonna happen somewhere there. That's right. Yeah, yeah. So that's a lot. I mean, that's not 10% of CCCU, but it's pretty close. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's at the US campuses, it's about 10%.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So in 10 years, you can have a complete turnover on your 140 campuses if that if that were if everybody did that. Now we have some presidents at 17 years, uh 25 years, and so but uh a president's for 15 years, if a president is uh in that spot for 10 to 15 years, that's a that's a good service.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Well, and the entire workforce, every vertical is facing this last wave of boomers retiring, very few people, 35 to 55 just by birth rate, that are available. And so institutions are faced with a uh do we take the person that's got more experience, or are there a whole lot of these people that aren't quite as experienced? And can we take a chance? Will it work? Well, what have you seen when a new president or a provost or someone in the presidential cabinet? You know, sort of that for lack of a better way of saying it, the C-suite of the school, uh, when they step into a new role, have you noticed things that they do in their first semester or maybe their first year, they're like, ah, they're making smart moves. That's gonna work. Have you have you noticed any trends?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh, that's a such a great question, William, because uh it's all about first impressions. So when a president steps onto a campus, let's sit, let's just say a campus of 3,000 people, right? You've got faculty, students, and staff, and they're all watching. What's this person going to be like? And so your first moves are really important. The first thing that successful presidents do is they really establish a channel of communication. Uh, so they they want to be known, and who's the best person to tell people who they are? It's the president themselves. Uh, and so they can do that by uh little video snaps. Uh, they can do it by showing up to events that are happening, they can make sure that they have faculty um presentations, uh, people over for dinner, picnics, and so on. So, starting off letting yourself be known and then telling your story, communications uh channels. The second thing is to take a good assessment about how strong the internal house is. And some people inherit a really strong uh leadership team, they inherit perhaps a really strong uh foundation financially. But the first thing to do is to really get in and understand that financial platform and the personnel platform. Because if you have a strong internal situation, you can then be external with more confidence. And then that's the third thing that presidents do. They work with their uh leaders on campus, their development office, and they say, who are the external third-party endorsers for this institution that need to know me so that they can be confident that this transition is going to be good and their support will continue.
SPEAKER_02And now help me understand the flip side of that. Like what would be the you let's not name names, but you've been doing this nine years. You probably see some people start off poorly. What would be the, oh, I don't know that I'd have done that right out of the gate, kind of mistakes that people might avoid as they uh take a new position.
SPEAKER_01Sometimes people come in and they make changes a little too quickly, and that frightens people. And so they then uh the internal side of the house says, Well, what's going to happen here? And so I think a president that spends a little time making sure that they know their team and then can make the wisest decisions probably helps solidify that person as a safe and trustworthy uh next leader. And then I would also say that uh maybe presidents who don't get advice from others who know the institution better than they do, if they're an outsider, they might be asked to do something, or they might think, well, that would have been fine in my old life and now I'm in my new life, and they're not quite as familiar with how an action of a president gets magnified. So something that they might think was small when they came from maybe from a business environment or a legal environment gets amplified on a campus environment. So seeking a lot of uh feedback, wisdom, and advice those first 90 days is really important.
SPEAKER_02That's really good. That's really good. Now, when I'm thinking about a president, I'd love for you to correct my thinking or add to it or have you. I try and ask um a search committee or board or what whatever group we're talking to. Presidents have to wear a lot of different hats, right? So to me, there's the scholar hat, and some places want the scholar president, right? Um there's the operational or community hat. Are they at the basketball game? Are they showing up in the different events that you mentioned? And then it seems like the third hat that comes along is are they the ambassador for the school? Are they doing donor relations? Are they doing fundraising? It seems like those are the three big hats that get worn. Can you think of is there a fourth one or a fifth one? You know this way better than I do.
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SPEAKER_01I think you've hit all three there. I I think that they have to have a great relationship with the faculty because the faculty is the content that people buy. I mean, when when all is said and done, what kind of faculty did you have? What kind of courses did you have? Uh, did this live up to the promises of the brochure?
SPEAKER_02The faculty is what the people are buying.
SPEAKER_01The faculty of what the people are buying.
SPEAKER_02That's worth remembering, right there. Yes.
SPEAKER_01And then then the thing that I always ask is uh, do you are you really getting a set of peers that will make you better? So who are your classmates? And what kind of support services do you have so that you can be a successful, like the mental health services? The uh do they have a good um nurse or doctor on campus? Uh, are they helping you get internships so that you can uh grow in the kind of interest that you have? Do they have a spiritual formation plan for students all four years that can make a difference in your life? Those are great questions to ask. But the president should be a chief spokesman for spiritual discipleship. He should be a or she should be a chief spokesman for academic rigor. Uh, and uh the kind of discussions that can happen in a Christian college campus better than anywhere else because they're not as polarized and they're not as um uh left uh where you've got political correctness. But then, of course, you got to go out and you have to raise money every every institution. Now, why do people give? There just was a great Barna study out just recently about why people give. And number one, people give because of who they are, and then second of all, how they were asked to give.
SPEAKER_02Well, I I don't want to single out people and diminish their gifts to just one lane, but longtime friend Michael Lindsay, my goodness, did he raise good money for Gordon College, and there's something about his presentation to donors that made a difference. And then again, not to single out, but we just finished the uh chaplain search at Wheaton and Phil, the president, wonderful, uh doing a wonderful job. But the interest he took in the theology and the approach to discipleship in these candidates was almost like a pastor hiring an associate pastor. And uh that I don't think you see that in a regular college presidency. Uh that's probably reserved for the Christian higher. Yeah, but I guess that's what I'm getting at is they're different hats, and it seems like if I'm looking at an opportunity, or if I'm looking for a cabinet, if I'm a new president, I I'm probably gonna try and assess which of these three hats is most important historically to this institution, and which one has to be important for the next phase. I mean, the development hat is pretty critical in some schools that are frankly in decline right now. And uh I don't know. I just wondering if you're seeing other areas that should be focused on, or if that seems to be kind of the three big rocks in the jar.
SPEAKER_01And uh well, you clearly understand higher education well, William. And it is because of that work that you do, it's because of the way that you've been on campuses, you get to know current presidents and you get to know them and how they're hiring. And and so your your observations here are correct, but I would say this no president gets to be sequential. Uh, they always have to be multi-dimensional. So let's say that you're at a community event, you're at the basketball game, there is a sort of a in the gymnasium where the president can have their uh friends, donors, um, alumni. You're constantly operating, um cycling through that theological half. People are evaluating you. Uh you're cycling through. Do I know my donor well? That's something Michael Lindsay does so well. He really knows his friends and supporters. He writes personal letters, he calls them. Uh, and then you're also though, you got to be available. Students are watching. Are you are you kind of are you kind of removed and and distant? Or are you creating enthusiasm and being able to tell the story? So never linear, never sequential, always holding them in sort of a circle, I would say uh like a carousel. You're constantly cycling through all those roles, probably at every engagement.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, just which hat are you wearing first, second, or third? Right, that's right. That's right. Yeah, and it all goes back to, for me, it all goes back to um old, this is gonna sound so bookwormy, but old reform theology of understanding Jesus' work. Uh, we called it the threefold office of Christ. He was a prophet, he was a priest, and a king. And that's kind of if you you can line some parallels to those three hats up to uh to the work that I think uh presidents are called to. Well, as we round out our time, I wonder, give me a pitch. I'm sitting here, I'm watching this. Uh I'm a headmaster at a Christian school, and I've got seniors getting ready to apply. What's the difference? Why should they think about CCCU schools and not uh just whatever university is local or where their parents went?
SPEAKER_01Oh, thank you so much, William. Well, first of all, I would tell that uh headmaster at a Christian K through 12, get to know the CCCU website. We have a great website called Journey to Distinction. It has eight videos on it that talk about uh that are student perspectives about how they went into business, how they went into medicine, how they went into the arts. And they said, I could have gone to a lot of places. But when I went to a Christian college, first of all, the faculty members were interested in me as a person. They wanted to find out what my hopes and dreams are and how they fit in with God's calling on my life. The second thing is I developed habits. Of faith that I wouldn't have developed if I went to a secular institution. And then thirdly, uh, there's recent research out of Stanford University that says students who have a purpose in life do far better than those who are looking only for a job. And at a Christian college, your purpose to honor God and to glorify him forever is going to be undergirded, supported, inflamed. And so that's why I would say and you can get into anywhere. So people say, well, I, you know, if I send them to an Ivy League school, they're going to have a better future. I don't believe it. And here's why you have a good future, not a better one. Because at a Christian college, your future is completely attached to your faith in who holds the future. We don't. God does attach your boat to that sail, and you will have a happy life.
SPEAKER_02That's awesome. People forget, I didn't know till I went to I went to Princeton for seminary. Yeah. I didn't know till I was there that you know, the congregationalists started Harvard to try and train ministers. The Episcopalians started Yale to try and train ministers. The College of New Jersey, which became Princeton, New Jersey. Princeton was started by the Presbyterians. And it was in the beginning, it was pretty much all Christian education. And things drift and we lose our uh our our alignment to the original cause. But uh so appreciate the work you guys are doing. I know it's not easy talking to college presidents. I know there's hot button topics that even in the CCCU, you're having to figure out how are we going to do this in a way that's not burrowing down in a bunker that ignores the world and what's going on. But uh really appreciate the work you guys are doing to try and manage that tension and uh do formation soul crafting in a way that uh is distinct. So thanks, thanks for making the time. Yeah, I appreciate the time today.
SPEAKER_01It's been great to be with you, and um, I wish you all the best as well and and your listeners today.
SPEAKER_02Thanks, Dr. Hoakstray. And if people want to find you, the website is ccccu.org. There you go. Dr. Hoachtstrail, have a great day.
SPEAKER_01Bye now.
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